Pro tip: If you have a Shimano 12 speed cassette laying around and you're using a 12 speed bike, grab the 14T cog from it. Then replace the Hub One cog with it. It will make the drivetrain noise MUCH less.
and I bought Zwift Hub One few weeks ago.... not sure what to feel, especially regarding long term support. ah well. at least, as a bigger guy, I find some solace in fact that Hub One has max rider weight at 120kg, while Kickr Core is at 113kg, so close where I am. nice video as usually Ray.
I did too - and I just returned it and getting the Wahoo Core - without the Zwift Cog. Not comfortable with the support path from Zwift in the future. I also found that I didn't like the Cog and the Click virtual shifting. Everything is fine in ERG but just free riding and using the Click is not optimal. There is a lag on the shift and a noticeable load change when it does happen. Just doesn't feel natural. Finally, that it's only supported in Zwift is also a knock (and I knew that before I got it originally but it's another straw against it). Definitely hemmed and hawed on sending it back but Zwift is giving me the "hmmm?" feeling right now so I'm flipping to Wahoo while I can.
This will work perfect for me as a I have a semi-busted bike I was wondering what to do with the frame. Rather than rebuilding a whole bike I can just use this as a dedicated indoor trainer.
Would be awesome if with an ANT+ Antenna you could connect the hidden hood shifters or even the regular gear shifters on Di2 bikes with eFly connection to the Zwift virtual gear change button
Yes you could do this since the Vision headset has Mac screen mirroring so you can open up Zwift on your MAC and stream it to the headset, seen it done with other applications already, nothing fancy or groundbreaking really. It still gives it the boxed rectangular look since it is just mirroring it and not the full VR 360 look though.@@xt2368
@@xt2368 I came across the Zwift founder's youtube channel that showed that Zwift Portal assets were developed YEARS ago. He mentioned that he developed a Zwift VR too but it also didn't make the cut at the time.
In time, yes. I dive into all the nuances here in this section of my written review: www.dcrainmaker.com/2024/02/wahoo-kickr-core-zwift-one-review-cog-click.html#retrofit-other-kickr-trainers-with-zwift-cog-click
I tried, it’s just not worth it. It’s noisy and you really have to micro adjust derailleur which I don’t want to do given it’s just fine with my road setup. You can reach the same results using Zwift play and usual cassette. Some apps don’t support virtual shifting, BTW. Without a cassette you are out of business.
I personally got the zwift cog so that i can switch between bikes. Really makes life easy. I don’t need an indoor trainer to have realistic feeling like shifting, i can do that outdoors.
I was wondering when Wahoo and Garmin would jump onboard with virtual shifting...Very smart idea for those who share a trainer or use multiple bikes but I'm sticking with my normal cassette for now!
I’m still using the first gen Kickr that I bought in early 2016, it won’t die. I’m gonna buy this though because it’s time for a new trainer and my first gen is alittle too inaccurate.
I'm somewhat happy I didn't buy the Zwift Hub One as I was very close to doing in preparation for this winter. Now it is obvious to get the Wahoo instead but I'm still in doubt about whether to get the cassette version or the cog version. I suppose you can go for either and just buy an additional cog upgrade kit or cassette and be able to mix and match as you like.
@@MrDuszekKacper Because it seems that the Zwift version will be discontinued according to this video and software/firmware updates, as well as general support ect. will also stop after 2 years I think he said in the video.
If you put a normal cassette on, then used the virtual shifting, could you theoretically expand the virtual gearing range by using your normal shifting? Say you run out of virtual gears going up a climb, but you're still in the front big ring, you could downshift the front chainring and get more gearing.
Both the Click (wherever you want it) and the Zwift Play controllers (mounted around hoods) live where you naturally shift while riding. Using a finger on a phone in mid workout or race seems awkward. Indie Velo has virtual shifting that requires a keyboard...it's a PITA, so I use my manual shifters.
I see that they will bring the cog retrofit to Kickr cores. I hope this is the case for Wahoo Kickr v5 as well. I do not want to puchase an unnecessary additional trainer..
"Until I'm done being miserable" 😂 What makes me happy is that my current Kickr Core is supported with a firmware update. I hve the Zwift Play controllers....so i am assuming i can set up the trainer with a clean drivetrain line and use the virtual shifting feature. Not clear on which front chainring i should use...from what i understand, one uses the little ring for 99% of riding unless one is performing a huge sprint. Then one pops up to the big ring and then back to the little ring. Correct? I agree with you Ray, somehow the Zwift/Wahoo nexus should deliver on the promised API for integration into other apps. Indie Velo has its own virtual shifting, but it's done via a keyboard. Pretty kludgey implementation. Thanks as always.
Is there an upgrade path for current Core owners in terms of replacing the cassette freehub that comes with the Core "classic" with the Zwift Hub One single cog hub and virtual shifting controller, and will they offer a discounted or even free upgrade path for recent Core buyers? Also, is virtual shifting possible with Core "classic" trainers that haven't been upgraded to the Hub One hub using a standard cassette, provided that you stay on one chainring/cog and set the correct size for each in the settings, and if so can you shift with the Zwift companion app without the controller? I'd think that the latter would be especially useful to people who use other platforms in addition to Zwift where you'll still need to do physical shifting (whether mechanical or electronic), unless these platforms adopt virtual shifting as well, which I assume they will eventually as the software seems fairly simple. Either way this is a great development. Provided that virtual shifting is handled properly there really shouldn't be a reason to have to physically shift on a trainer. It's quieter, simpler, there's less wear and tear on your road cassette, and should make training indoors simpler and easier. Now if they can only integrate this with virtual steering and braking, and perhaps even banking...
@@xandershawvlog I have a Sterzo for steering and can do power ups from the app. I also have Campy Ergo shifters which aren't compatible with the controllers.
So, basically since the click do not talk to the trainer, wouldn't it be possible to just use the click (with actual trainer and not using the cog) and still be able to virtual shift in Zwift ? (You answered at the end - Thanks) What about using this with their own platform (Systm X) ?
Dang it. Can we update old Kickr Cores? Guessing not… I tried to get the Zwift singlespeed cog and clicker to my Core and couldn’t make it work… Ended up returning it. EDIT: I see that is coming now. Sweet!
Thanks for this. I almost bought the zwift one hub in December and glad I held off. Now my dilemma is whether I buy something that runs zwift at all. Seems the company is in turmoil and I wonder their future as a company.
Question. I want to use zwift so this trainer is perfect but my partner just wants to use it like a spin bike. Would she be able to use this bike as such? I’ve heard you can just use the wahoo app and adjust resistance there but can’t seem to find any concrete information.
Is there a video for changing the cog one to a cassette? Complete beginner here and after buying this version with the virtual shifting, I think I’d prefer to actually shift with my new 9 speed bike.
Hey Ray! Any chance this works for fixed gear bikes and if not are there plans for a track bike compatible cog in the future? That would make a lot of sence to me since both are indoor cycling. I own a Velobike adapter for the kickr core and destroyed the bearings during an everesting event. Velobike sent another adapter free of charge but the problem began to happen again and so I switched back to a kickr snap and never spoke to them about it, thinking that my use may not be its intended purpose. Also … I have a wahoo rival and have found a lot of problems. In one of your previous videos I saw your wahoo rival wall … ( 😳 ) any chance you make a video about it or would that ruin your relationship with wahoo? - Thanks!
The cog would work fine for single-speed. The most common issues is that most single-speed bike frames aren't using one of the existing support axle standards of smart trainers. 130mm wide Quick Release is the smallest offered and most SS bikes I have seen are 110mm to 120mm which won't fit. There are some adapters that can be purchased to setup a wider axle spacing for these frames if you have one and are set on using it, but it is a workaround due to the trainer limitations. As of now, I have not seen any common offerings that work for those narrower frames without a hack.
@@Chader9 a company called Velobike from New Zealand makes an adapter I own and it's a good product but I don't think it's designed to climb up fake hills and so I decided to rethink my training. I ground the bearings literally into dust. The mechanic I brought it too thought I used anti seeze silver grease because of the bearing dust mixing with the grease i used to protect it. The core was fine so I decided to store it thinking i would buy a road bike for it but did not have the budget for it this year. I have a road frame and wheels but need everything else. Anyways it would be cool if wahoo made something specifically for fixed gear or single speed. My bet would be single speed because its easy to break stuff when fixed. Especially yourself. I have a 15 mm bolt moving my 120mm over in the kickr snap so that its centred. I also started training a tt position to avoid rocking the machine and bike when out of the saddle. Hasksville is cool at least. Until things break. 😅 Wahoo has been really good to me with warranties. Really disappointed by some things but it seems to me the people at wahoo care so they have made up for product flops with customer service IMO Only thing now is ... I'm still wondering about that wahoo rival wall.
Also, is there any way to know what each gear # from 1 to 24 corresponds to in terms of gear inches/cm or chainring/cog ratio? I suppose that eventually you'll just get a feel for things but it would be nice to be able to know this for people used to physical shifting.
@@Dcrainmaker I think your mate GP Lama had some quick and dirty numbers for the two extremes...all the numbers in between could be derived for #s 2 thru 23. All based on front ring size...
I have a Kickr V5 and it’s been flawless but have a question. Are these trainers more accurate at higher flywheel speeds in erg mode as I do nearly all workouts in the 52t up front and somewhere in the middle of the cassette block for chain alignment. Plus it feels nicer, in my opinion. But I’m intrigued by the accuracy as so forums say you should use your turbo in the small gear up front?! Can you settle this? Thanks
You bought a trainer that had the features and price you liked (most likely discounted per the recent sales). Zwift says support will continue for years to come. Where's the problem?
The firmware update is live so you have that all when you upgrade. If you actually want a Cog & Click, you will need buy that. Or you can still use a regular cassette and get the Zwift Play controller for access to virtual shifting (plus all the other Zwift functions).
Isn't it also ideal if you are forced to adjust your rear derailleur because the cassette position of the rear wheel and bike trainer are not identical?
I came here to say this, for me this is a big win not having to re-index each time you go outside and back on the turbo. Not a problem when you’ve got a bike that lives on the turbo. But sorting the indexing against the flywheel is a pain, especially in a small space!
Are these updates coming to KICKR V4 (2018) as well? HW-wise it's very similar to the CORE and the FW update histories have been mirroring each other so far...
@@Chader9 Exactly, was wondering which APPs would support (or successfully ignore) virtual shifting in erg mode. Seems like it should work, however it'd be nice to have confirmation.
It's been a mystery for the last 7 years that ive had my Neo as to why trainers don't come with a clicker to do this. Shouldn't involve 3rd party software at all. And even now, why does it involve zwift at all, I should be able to shift my trainer.
Cool but....Not sure I want the proprietary stuff & stuck with just Zwift. The old way is fine & usable on multi platforms + shifting is mechanical in my "real" life riding anyway 😉 Thanks for a great review! PS: I am guessing this is the BIG surprise wahoo was talking about on one of your recent videos?
Hardly proprietary since you can still install any HG compatible cassette of your choice to replace a Cog. Then just ignore virtual shifting and act like none of it ever happened. Considering that the Core never came with any cassette in the past, this is a bonus at the very least and no loss if you decide to run regular gears.
@@Chader9 Yes that is true I guess you can revert to a cassette & then be able to use other platforms. I wonder then why they are not making the cog available to those who even recently just bought the Core or the Swift hub one? Just saw on FB today Wahoo said they have no plan to make those upgradeable...I have seen a few unhappy videos already like Team Saunders Tri
@@maniastrat I can't speak to Wahoo's direction. But Zwift is still offering the Cog & Click upgrade for sale ($80) that includes the Click and Cog mounted to the Hub compatible freehub body. For anyone on a Core (or Kickr that will gain the virtual shifting in the near future), they can buy this, remove the Cog from the Hub freehub (mouthful ;) ) and then install it on their Core or Kickr. Bit of a waste to ditch the freehub, but it's an option. Alternatively, someone can buy the Zwift Play controller for virtual shifting access (and all the other functions), then do a simple single-speed hack like can be seen in many YT videos and have the same basic experience as the Cog. The main lack will be the plastic shroud to help with setup, but I won't be surprised of someone makes some 3D printed versions of these just for that purpose. Essentially, there is more than one way to make a single-speed happen here even if Wahoo refuses to offer a direct option. As to people moaning about the issues here, I don't have much sympathy. People bought what they thought fit their needs and budget. Zwift says they will for sure support the Hub at least 2 years. This is perhaps a bit short, but I've heard of even less from other makers at times so I don't see the 2 years as a real, problem. From what I've seen, the current Hub firmware is very stable and hits all the marks most people care about. The people who bought the Hub on sale in the last month or so got a nice discount on a good trainer that can be relied upon. No problem from what I see. And I say all that as an owner of a Kickr V3 2017 that is not poised to get the virtual shifting nor eligible for the other firmware updates or features present in the V4 2018 and newer models. Just part of owning a tech based product where support is not guaranteed at full depth forever.
@@Chader9 That's nice of them & that may make some of those recent Zwift hub owners happy/happier ;) I have been nearly 40 years on road bikes & never was much for indoor training although I do have rollers. I was just thinking of buying a Wahoo Kickr Core when all this came up. I am still thinking of going that way as the new deals dont make any difference to me & Amazon still sells the Core for 500 /free delivery. Thanks for all the info!
Predictable, but will there be an update to add virtual shifting for the kickr? and previous models of the core?. There is no reason why Wahoo couldn’t do that, right? 🤔 or Zwift could do it without Wahoo?…thinking about it, does it work anyway now already?
I *think* you're ok as TR or a Zwift workout will control the trainer while you travel on Zwift. No need to shift. I run several group meetups for a Zwift team. Lots of riders are running workouts while on the meetup. Hope that helps
What do you think I bought my Zwift Hub One just 26 days ago. Should I send it back? I mean if they only want to support it for 2 more years it might be worth it or?
Sooo if you are saying that one can replace the hub with a cassette in this trainer. I take it that one can get a hub and put it in a “normal” trainer? Say a Kickr or a Tacx?
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I keep hearing it includes a years worth of zwift. In Australia when i checked the pricing and availability it was only a $60 discount. What's the deal with that?
Correct, for simulation mode. Or you can always just put a $50 cassette on it, and the trainer supports all the standard protocols, and there's no limitations with a normal bike.
I wonder whether Wahoo's being slow in releasing the developer API for virtual shifting to other virtual cycling platforms is more of a legal than business decision. While the concept and I suspect code behind this is relatively simple, because we're just talking gear ratios which is linear, they'll probably charge a licensing fee for use of this technology, which has to be worked out in terms of how to charge for it, plus the legal details have to also be ironed out. Also, how to actually shift in terms of whether with a Zwift controller, a 3rd party controller, or in an app. And they might also want to have the right to approve of other platforms' versions of virtual shifting to maintain control over the technology's image.
Technically not perfectly compatible, but practically speaking, perfectly compatible. You can see the bike in this review is a 12-sp flattop chain, and I also used a 12sp Shimano bike too. Over the long arc of many years it’ll add a bit more wear, but chains are cheap viewed in that lens. Likewise, it’ll be a tiny bit louder too, but frankly almost impossible to hear differences to 11sp chain over breathing.
I got a Zwift Hub Classic when it came out and I don't have any regrets. I got the initial lower price (no free year of Zwift) and I've been able to play with all of Zwift's new toys and features earlier. And I have more climbing gears since I can change to my big ring on the cassette WHILE using virtual shifting.
Just wondering....I use Systm (aka Sufferfest), and you can adjust wattage by using the up/down arrow keys on the keyboard. Is this much different than that (other than the convenience of the button)?
DC - Do you think this is a 'partnership' between Zwift and Wahoo or previously undisclosed agreement to settle that big lawsuit Wahoo filed against Zwift a while ago? 🤔
I don't understand how many people are shrugging off the max incline. Most of my rides have 16%+ segments. Max 16% is just terrible. Has to be at least 20%. Even Wahoo Climb supports 20%, so it should match that.
Should be able as the shifting and resistance is done via Zwift. If your single speed is mounted on the Core you do virtual shifting via the Click or Zwift Play controllers.
I don't understand the concept: Why would I want to shift virtually if I have real gears on my bike? (Yes, I have seen the pros and cons in the video.)
The concept is centered around the new Cog as a single gear solution. This makes swapping between bikes with different drivetrains easier since you use the same cog for everything from 8-12 speed bikes. For someone with only one bike in use, the Cog and virtual shifting don't serve much purpose. So it's use case dependent.
Hello all! One Question plz :) For new users who are thinking of buying a bike and a direct drive trainer now, which would be best? Kickr Core , Kickr core ZWIFT one , other? The budget is within the kickr core range. Thank you all
“If you don’t know, you can’t.” Brilliant.
I laughed and replayed that part way too much!
DC is the kind of guy to have an Apple Vision Pro on the counter and not mention it whatsoever.
Awesome news that the existing Kickr trainers will get an update giving us this option.
Pro tip: If you have a Shimano 12 speed cassette laying around and you're using a 12 speed bike, grab the 14T cog from it. Then replace the Hub One cog with it. It will make the drivetrain noise MUCH less.
What about SRAM?
The Original Cog has some spacer in it. How did you manage this with the replaced 14t Original one from a Cassette?
and I bought Zwift Hub One few weeks ago.... not sure what to feel, especially regarding long term support. ah well. at least, as a bigger guy, I find some solace in fact that Hub One has max rider weight at 120kg, while Kickr Core is at 113kg, so close where I am. nice video as usually Ray.
same im jaw dropped...
I did too - and I just returned it and getting the Wahoo Core - without the Zwift Cog. Not comfortable with the support path from Zwift in the future. I also found that I didn't like the Cog and the Click virtual shifting. Everything is fine in ERG but just free riding and using the Click is not optimal. There is a lag on the shift and a noticeable load change when it does happen. Just doesn't feel natural.
Finally, that it's only supported in Zwift is also a knock (and I knew that before I got it originally but it's another straw against it).
Definitely hemmed and hawed on sending it back but Zwift is giving me the "hmmm?" feeling right now so I'm flipping to Wahoo while I can.
I put the clicker on my finger and I can shift while sitting upright, wiping sweat, reaching for a bottle… it’s great.
This will work perfect for me as a I have a semi-busted bike I was wondering what to do with the frame. Rather than rebuilding a whole bike I can just use this as a dedicated indoor trainer.
Great video DCR, hopefully we will see a tacx COG adapter kit with a firmware update and button to allow similar on the Neo and lower down trainers.
Kiitos!
Would be awesome if with an ANT+ Antenna you could connect the hidden hood shifters or even the regular gear shifters on Di2 bikes with eFly connection to the Zwift virtual gear change button
that should be a home hack with some small mcu, like esp32 or raspberry pico.
That casual Apple Vision Pro on the table.... :D
Zwift VR confirmed?
Yes you could do this since the Vision headset has Mac screen mirroring so you can open up Zwift on your MAC and stream it to the headset, seen it done with other applications already, nothing fancy or groundbreaking really. It still gives it the boxed rectangular look since it is just mirroring it and not the full VR 360 look though.@@xt2368
@@xt2368 I came across the Zwift founder's youtube channel that showed that Zwift Portal assets were developed YEARS ago. He mentioned that he developed a Zwift VR too but it also didn't make the cut at the time.
He did a video about it
Can I buy the Zwift Cog + Click upgrade kit and install it on an old Kicker Core? If you mentioned that and I missed i apologize. Thanks.
I’m looking for the same answer 😢
I also would like to know this
In time, yes. I dive into all the nuances here in this section of my written review: www.dcrainmaker.com/2024/02/wahoo-kickr-core-zwift-one-review-cog-click.html#retrofit-other-kickr-trainers-with-zwift-cog-click
@@Dcrainmaker incredible! thanks for covering this in such detail!
I tried, it’s just not worth it. It’s noisy and you really have to micro adjust derailleur which I don’t want to do given it’s just fine with my road setup. You can reach the same results using Zwift play and usual cassette. Some apps don’t support virtual shifting, BTW. Without a cassette you are out of business.
Just got mine set up today. Thanks so much for this!
I personally got the zwift cog so that i can switch between bikes. Really makes life easy. I don’t need an indoor trainer to have realistic feeling like shifting, i can do that outdoors.
I was wondering when Wahoo and Garmin would jump onboard with virtual shifting...Very smart idea for those who share a trainer or use multiple bikes but I'm sticking with my normal cassette for now!
Ok fine, ive been watching and praising your channel for years and finally took the plunge and subscribed
I’m still using the first gen Kickr that
I bought in early 2016, it won’t die.
I’m gonna buy this though because it’s time for a new trainer and my first gen is alittle too inaccurate.
I'm somewhat happy I didn't buy the Zwift Hub One as I was very close to doing in preparation for this winter. Now it is obvious to get the Wahoo instead but I'm still in doubt about whether to get the cassette version or the cog version. I suppose you can go for either and just buy an additional cog upgrade kit or cassette and be able to mix and match as you like.
Why you think that Zwift Hub One is worse than Wahoo Kickr Core Zwift One?
Get the cassette version (and a click controller). Put a cassette on that has a 14t cog. Now you have options!
@@MrDuszekKacper Because it seems that the Zwift version will be discontinued according to this video and software/firmware updates, as well as general support ect. will also stop after 2 years I think he said in the video.
I had the Zwift Hub One and I just returned it for the Core with cassette. I didn't like the virtual shifting with the Click.
@@tmhudg Thanks. I predict I will feel the same about the virtual shifting.
Finally Campagnolo 8-12 compatibility!
Always great info…!
It be cool if ANT compatible shifters could control it.
If you put a normal cassette on, then used the virtual shifting, could you theoretically expand the virtual gearing range by using your normal shifting? Say you run out of virtual gears going up a climb, but you're still in the front big ring, you could downshift the front chainring and get more gearing.
Virtual shift already have more range than any real road gears. Why would you need even more?
I’d rather just leave the existing cassette in place.
Good video. Very thorough. Thanks.
Why not just add Zwift click function to a the companion app to change gears ?
This is what I wondered as well. Seems completely mad
Cuz then they cant sell u a $50 piece of plastic
That you need to change batteries on as well @@thedownunderverse
Both the Click (wherever you want it) and the Zwift Play controllers (mounted around hoods) live where you naturally shift while riding. Using a finger on a phone in mid workout or race seems awkward. Indie Velo has virtual shifting that requires a keyboard...it's a PITA, so I use my manual shifters.
I see that they will bring the cog retrofit to Kickr cores. I hope this is the case for Wahoo Kickr v5 as well. I do not want to puchase an unnecessary additional trainer..
"Until I'm done being miserable" 😂
What makes me happy is that my current Kickr Core is supported with a firmware update. I hve the Zwift Play controllers....so i am assuming i can set up the trainer with a clean drivetrain line and use the virtual shifting feature.
Not clear on which front chainring i should use...from what i understand, one uses the little ring for 99% of riding unless one is performing a huge sprint. Then one pops up to the big ring and then back to the little ring. Correct?
I agree with you Ray, somehow the Zwift/Wahoo nexus should deliver on the promised API for integration into other apps. Indie Velo has its own virtual shifting, but it's done via a keyboard. Pretty kludgey implementation.
Thanks as always.
Is there an upgrade path for current Core owners in terms of replacing the cassette freehub that comes with the Core "classic" with the Zwift Hub One single cog hub and virtual shifting controller, and will they offer a discounted or even free upgrade path for recent Core buyers?
Also, is virtual shifting possible with Core "classic" trainers that haven't been upgraded to the Hub One hub using a standard cassette, provided that you stay on one chainring/cog and set the correct size for each in the settings, and if so can you shift with the Zwift companion app without the controller?
I'd think that the latter would be especially useful to people who use other platforms in addition to Zwift where you'll still need to do physical shifting (whether mechanical or electronic), unless these platforms adopt virtual shifting as well, which I assume they will eventually as the software seems fairly simple.
Either way this is a great development. Provided that virtual shifting is handled properly there really shouldn't be a reason to have to physically shift on a trainer. It's quieter, simpler, there's less wear and tear on your road cassette, and should make training indoors simpler and easier.
Now if they can only integrate this with virtual steering and braking, and perhaps even banking...
I’ve read that virtual shifting can be done now with Zwift play in a standard core.
@@xandershawvlog If you mean the Play controller then yes, it can, but they're $99 which seems a bit steep if you won't be using their other features.
@@HabaneroTi true but it means you get steering and the power up options on the bars. The separate upgrade hub is pending I believe.
@@xandershawvlog I have a Sterzo for steering and can do power ups from the app. I also have Campy Ergo shifters which aren't compatible with the controllers.
Do you know if the cog will become available as an accessory, to use on the other Wahoo trainers?
It already is avaiable
@@cricanwa the currently available Cog doesn't retrofit other trainers.
Good review. Thanks
Any idea if 10hz be available on the Core? Subscribed and liked.
So, basically since the click do not talk to the trainer, wouldn't it be possible to just use the click (with actual trainer and not using the cog) and still be able to virtual shift in Zwift ? (You answered at the end - Thanks)
What about using this with their own platform (Systm X) ?
Yes you can just leave it in one sprocket and use the controllers on the clicker
Dang it. Can we update old Kickr Cores? Guessing not… I tried to get the Zwift singlespeed cog and clicker to my Core and couldn’t make it work… Ended up returning it.
EDIT: I see that is coming now. Sweet!
Thanks for this. I almost bought the zwift one hub in December and glad I held off. Now my dilemma is whether I buy something that runs zwift at all. Seems the company is in turmoil and I wonder their future as a company.
There’s no turmoil for users. Zwift in itself will only grow. Buy it and ‘ride on’ 👍🏼
That`s the end of the Zwift Hub. Let`s see how far the support goes and software updates.
Zwift says 2 years.
Question. I want to use zwift so this trainer is perfect but my partner just wants to use it like a spin bike. Would she be able to use this bike as such? I’ve heard you can just use the wahoo app and adjust resistance there but can’t seem to find any concrete information.
Is there a video for changing the cog one to a cassette? Complete beginner here and after buying this version with the virtual shifting, I think I’d prefer to actually shift with my new 9 speed bike.
Hey Ray! Any chance this works for fixed gear bikes and if not are there plans for a track bike compatible cog in the future? That would make a lot of sence to me since both are indoor cycling. I own a Velobike adapter for the kickr core and destroyed the bearings during an everesting event. Velobike sent another adapter free of charge but the problem began to happen again and so I switched back to a kickr snap and never spoke to them about it, thinking that my use may not be its intended purpose. Also … I have a wahoo rival and have found a lot of problems. In one of your previous videos I saw your wahoo rival wall … ( 😳 ) any chance you make a video about it or would that ruin your relationship with wahoo?
- Thanks!
The cog would work fine for single-speed. The most common issues is that most single-speed bike frames aren't using one of the existing support axle standards of smart trainers. 130mm wide Quick Release is the smallest offered and most SS bikes I have seen are 110mm to 120mm which won't fit. There are some adapters that can be purchased to setup a wider axle spacing for these frames if you have one and are set on using it, but it is a workaround due to the trainer limitations. As of now, I have not seen any common offerings that work for those narrower frames without a hack.
@@Chader9 a company called Velobike from New Zealand makes an adapter I own and it's a good product but I don't think it's designed to climb up fake hills and so I decided to rethink my training.
I ground the bearings literally into dust. The mechanic I brought it too thought I used anti seeze silver grease because of the bearing dust mixing with the grease i used to protect it. The core was fine so I decided to store it thinking i would buy a road bike for it but did not have the budget for it this year. I have a road frame and wheels but need everything else.
Anyways it would be cool if wahoo made something specifically for fixed gear or single speed. My bet would be single speed because its easy to break stuff when fixed. Especially yourself.
I have a 15 mm bolt moving my 120mm over in the kickr snap so that its centred. I also started training a tt position to avoid rocking the machine and bike when out of the saddle.
Hasksville is cool at least.
Until things break. 😅
Wahoo has been really good to me with warranties. Really disappointed by some things but it seems to me the people at wahoo care so they have made up for product flops with customer service IMO
Only thing now is ... I'm still wondering about that wahoo rival wall.
I wonder if/when Elite will come out with something that’s similar but compatible across other virtual platforms?
Why would zwift bring out a trainer 2 months ago then bin it that’s worrying
Also, is there any way to know what each gear # from 1 to 24 corresponds to in terms of gear inches/cm or chainring/cog ratio? I suppose that eventually you'll just get a feel for things but it would be nice to be able to know this for people used to physical shifting.
No, not at this point. :(
@@Dcrainmaker I think your mate GP Lama had some quick and dirty numbers for the two extremes...all the numbers in between could be derived for #s 2 thru 23. All based on front ring size...
I have a Kickr V5 and it’s been flawless but have a question.
Are these trainers more accurate at higher flywheel speeds in erg mode as I do nearly all workouts in the 52t up front and somewhere in the middle of the cassette block for chain alignment. Plus it feels nicer, in my opinion.
But I’m intrigued by the accuracy as so forums say you should use your turbo in the small gear up front?!
Can you settle this?
Thanks
The are LESS accurate at higher flywheel speeds from the numerous tests I have seen.
@@Chader9i always keep mine (for like 4 years now) in the big chain ring. Feels weird when I have it in the small.
wait, does it mean that virtual gears feature does not work with Wahoo X?
Correct.
Is this coming to the kickr as well as the kickr core?
Well this is a kick(r) in the arse for those of us that recently bought the zwift hub One.
You bought a trainer that had the features and price you liked (most likely discounted per the recent sales).
Zwift says support will continue for years to come. Where's the problem?
Where can I buy the Shark bike shirt?
Is this coming to the Kickr not just the Kickr core?
Yes - Ray mentions that near the end of the video.
But will the COG come to the Kickr (not just software updates for virtual shifting)?
@@zywb sure. The same Cog that works on the Core would work on the standard KICKR, so I don't see why not.
It's now the end of the year, did Wahoo follow through with their commitment to releasing third party app access to sim mode shifting?
Nope
Hi, do you have any vibrations in the stroke with your setup ? thks for sharing
Can you adjust derailleur tension to get rid of the noise or is the cog just too thick for narrow 12 speed chains?
It's just too thick.
Use a 14T cog from a Shimano cassette. Makes the noise much less!
Would love to add this to my own older Core without having the buy the new one.
The firmware update is live so you have that all when you upgrade. If you actually want a Cog & Click, you will need buy that. Or you can still use a regular cassette and get the Zwift Play controller for access to virtual shifting (plus all the other Zwift functions).
Isn't it also ideal if you are forced to adjust your rear derailleur because the cassette position of the rear wheel and bike trainer are not identical?
I came here to say this, for me this is a big win not having to re-index each time you go outside and back on the turbo. Not a problem when you’ve got a bike that lives on the turbo. But sorting the indexing against the flywheel is a pain, especially in a small space!
But will the COG come to the Kickr v6 (not just software updates for virtual shifting)?
Hi , if I buy Wahoo Kickr Core Zwift One can I use cassette in the future ?
Are these updates coming to KICKR V4 (2018) as well? HW-wise it's very similar to the CORE and the FW update histories have been mirroring each other so far...
The virtual shifting, yes.
@@Dcrainmaker And the auto-calibration as well? 🙏
Will it self calibrate as that has disappeared off the Zwift menu.
It does self-calibrate. It's off the Zwift menu for manual calibration, but ou can still do it from the Wahoo app.
@@Dcrainmaker the patch notes were pointless. So no nee to spin down now other than from new?
@@Dcrainmaker also do you just know when the Hub will be available for existing Core owners to upgrade of they wish?
Were you able to use a different ERG MODE app or just zwift? e.g. wahoo's free app ? (subbed, great content, ty)
ERG mode will work with any app that supports it.
@@Chader9 Exactly, was wondering which APPs would support (or successfully ignore) virtual shifting in erg mode. Seems like it should work, however it'd be nice to have confirmation.
@@Chader9 GP Lama confirms you are correct and erg mode works as expected.
It's been a mystery for the last 7 years that ive had my Neo as to why trainers don't come with a clicker to do this. Shouldn't involve 3rd party software at all. And even now, why does it involve zwift at all, I should be able to shift my trainer.
Terrible time to have just purchased the Zwift Hub One about 6 weeks ago.
Most people are returning it.
@@elliekusa65 I’m outside the return window
Cool but....Not sure I want the proprietary stuff & stuck with just Zwift. The old way is fine & usable on multi platforms + shifting is mechanical in my "real" life riding anyway 😉 Thanks for a great review! PS: I am guessing this is the BIG surprise wahoo was talking about on one of your recent videos?
Hardly proprietary since you can still install any HG compatible cassette of your choice to replace a Cog. Then just ignore virtual shifting and act like none of it ever happened. Considering that the Core never came with any cassette in the past, this is a bonus at the very least and no loss if you decide to run regular gears.
@@Chader9 Yes that is true I guess you can revert to a cassette & then be able to use other platforms. I wonder then why they are not making the cog available to those who even recently just bought the Core or the Swift hub one? Just saw on FB today Wahoo said they have no plan to make those upgradeable...I have seen a few unhappy videos already like Team Saunders Tri
@@maniastrat I can't speak to Wahoo's direction. But Zwift is still offering the Cog & Click upgrade for sale ($80) that includes the Click and Cog mounted to the Hub compatible freehub body. For anyone on a Core (or Kickr that will gain the virtual shifting in the near future), they can buy this, remove the Cog from the Hub freehub (mouthful ;) ) and then install it on their Core or Kickr. Bit of a waste to ditch the freehub, but it's an option.
Alternatively, someone can buy the Zwift Play controller for virtual shifting access (and all the other functions), then do a simple single-speed hack like can be seen in many YT videos and have the same basic experience as the Cog. The main lack will be the plastic shroud to help with setup, but I won't be surprised of someone makes some 3D printed versions of these just for that purpose. Essentially, there is more than one way to make a single-speed happen here even if Wahoo refuses to offer a direct option.
As to people moaning about the issues here, I don't have much sympathy. People bought what they thought fit their needs and budget. Zwift says they will for sure support the Hub at least 2 years. This is perhaps a bit short, but I've heard of even less from other makers at times so I don't see the 2 years as a real, problem. From what I've seen, the current Hub firmware is very stable and hits all the marks most people care about. The people who bought the Hub on sale in the last month or so got a nice discount on a good trainer that can be relied upon. No problem from what I see.
And I say all that as an owner of a Kickr V3 2017 that is not poised to get the virtual shifting nor eligible for the other firmware updates or features present in the V4 2018 and newer models. Just part of owning a tech based product where support is not guaranteed at full depth forever.
@@Chader9 That's nice of them & that may make some of those recent Zwift hub owners happy/happier ;) I have been nearly 40 years on road bikes & never was much for indoor training although I do have rollers. I was just thinking of buying a Wahoo Kickr Core when all this came up. I am still thinking of going that way as the new deals dont make any difference to me & Amazon still sells the Core for 500 /free delivery. Thanks for all the info!
Predictable, but will there be an update to add virtual shifting for the kickr? and previous models of the core?. There is no reason why Wahoo couldn’t do that, right? 🤔 or Zwift could do it without Wahoo?…thinking about it, does it work anyway now already?
Yes, firmware coming to all Cores and back to some Kickrs. All mentioned in the video and detailed coverage in the written review.
I see you are using a one by, does it make a difference when Using the big ring or the small ring in the front ?
Nope, it's a 2x bike. In either case, for the Zwift Hub, they recommend using the small ring.
What happens when you change rings during a session? Sim? Erg?
Ey, what about using trainerroad and zwift at the same time ? Trainerroad to control and zwift for distraction ?
I *think* you're ok as TR or a Zwift workout will control the trainer while you travel on Zwift. No need to shift. I run several group meetups for a Zwift team. Lots of riders are running workouts while on the meetup. Hope that helps
What do you think I bought my Zwift Hub One just 26 days ago. Should I send it back? I mean if they only want to support it for 2 more years it might be worth it or?
They should give us another year of Zwift, free.
Sooo if you are saying that one can replace the hub with a cassette in this trainer. I take it that one can get a hub and put it in a “normal” trainer? Say a Kickr or a Tacx?
Has the shifting issue with third party apps been resolved ?
No change.
Yo Rainmaker. Where did you get that Shark Tee Shirt??
Ask and you shall receive: darkcycleclothing.com/products/great-white-shark-on-a-bicycle-unisex-mens-tshirt-triblack?_pos=7&_sid=60eb68a37&_ss=r&variant=12570693304381
So if you can put a regular cassette on… can you buy the cog and put it on your current trainer?
If your trainer is an Zwift one or Kicker Core, yes. You can and will work.
For any other trainer you may also, but it won't work.
Do we know what 7 speed cassettes will work ? Or is there a work around to make it work..
Hi Ray does the click use up one of your connections to apple tv ?
Yes, it does.
I keep hearing it includes a years worth of zwift. In Australia when i checked the pricing and availability it was only a $60 discount.
What's the deal with that?
So if the click talks to the zwift app... You'll be locked in forever to zwift? No zwift subscription means it's an expensive door stopper?
Correct, for simulation mode. Or you can always just put a $50 cassette on it, and the trainer supports all the standard protocols, and there's no limitations with a normal bike.
@@Dcrainmaker awesome, thanks a million!
I wonder whether Wahoo's being slow in releasing the developer API for virtual shifting to other virtual cycling platforms is more of a legal than business decision. While the concept and I suspect code behind this is relatively simple, because we're just talking gear ratios which is linear, they'll probably charge a licensing fee for use of this technology, which has to be worked out in terms of how to charge for it, plus the legal details have to also be ironed out. Also, how to actually shift in terms of whether with a Zwift controller, a 3rd party controller, or in an app. And they might also want to have the right to approve of other platforms' versions of virtual shifting to maintain control over the technology's image.
SRAM flat top chain compatible? Read that the Zwift trainer wasn’t technically compatible.
Thanks
Technically not perfectly compatible, but practically speaking, perfectly compatible. You can see the bike in this review is a 12-sp flattop chain, and I also used a 12sp Shimano bike too. Over the long arc of many years it’ll add a bit more wear, but chains are cheap viewed in that lens. Likewise, it’ll be a tiny bit louder too, but frankly almost impossible to hear differences to 11sp chain over breathing.
Will virtual shifting come to Tacx Neo?
It would really suck if I have to replace my Neo to get this feature. 😐
That's mostly up to Tacx, with a strong blend of Zwift. My guess here is no. :(
I got a Zwift Hub Classic when it came out and I don't have any regrets. I got the initial lower price (no free year of Zwift) and I've been able to play with all of Zwift's new toys and features earlier. And I have more climbing gears since I can change to my big ring on the cassette WHILE using virtual shifting.
I'm subscribed so not in the 80something!!!;}}. also very helpful info cheers
Just wondering....I use Systm (aka Sufferfest), and you can adjust wattage by using the up/down arrow keys on the keyboard. Is this much different than that (other than the convenience of the button)?
DC - Do you think this is a 'partnership' between Zwift and Wahoo or previously undisclosed agreement to settle that big lawsuit Wahoo filed against Zwift a while ago? 🤔
It's both.
Been watching your vids for years but wasn't subbed. Just fixed that.
Awesome, thanks!
same 😂
Where can you find the 14T cog that would make the unit quieter and smoother? My bike are 11 and 12 speed ones
Will this work with. Magene smart trainer? The One Hub that is
wait so the Zwift hub one is going away? I literally just bought it 2 days ago...
You're getting 2 more years of support. Trainer technology doesn't change very much so you're probably fine for the next 3-4 years.
Not sure about which ring should I use in the front. Bigger or smaller? Thanks
Will the cog work on other wahoo trainers?
Just wondering, do we leave the chain in the front on the small ring or large ring?
On my Kickr Core Zwift One the chain is left in the small ring. On the larger ring the chain is not in ideal line and so there is too much noise.
Will the Zwift Hub One slide onto a Wahoo Campagnolo freehub on the Kickr Core?
I don't understand how many people are shrugging off the max incline. Most of my rides have 16%+ segments. Max 16% is just terrible. Has to be at least 20%. Even Wahoo Climb supports 20%, so it should match that.
Can you use your cassette with the shift buttons and just leave your chain on the same # tooth cog?
Yes.
So now You can use single speed bike and mimic bicycle with derailleurs?
Should be able as the shifting and resistance is done via Zwift. If your single speed is mounted on the Core you do virtual shifting via the Click or Zwift Play controllers.
The swift cog is compatible with the swift kick core or do i need to buy the swift hub?
Does it just a one front chain ring system. Can you change to gearing set ups. Or does it have the same gear for every user
Yes but only double of the inside drive
I don't understand the concept: Why would I want to shift virtually if I have real gears on my bike? (Yes, I have seen the pros and cons in the video.)
The concept is centered around the new Cog as a single gear solution. This makes swapping between bikes with different drivetrains easier since you use the same cog for everything from 8-12 speed bikes.
For someone with only one bike in use, the Cog and virtual shifting don't serve much purpose. So it's use case dependent.
Will this work on the other wahoo trainer.
Can I confirm does the zwift cog & click upgrade kit work on the Wahoo Kickr?
Hello all!
One Question plz :)
For new users who are thinking of buying a bike and a direct drive trainer now, which would be best? Kickr Core , Kickr core ZWIFT one , other?
The budget is within the kickr core range.
Thank you all
Can you use a normal Kickr Core (with the cassette) and just normally shift using the Zwift app?
How many people’s 2020 Kickr Smart became a brick in 2023? I have noticed a lot of comments about this on comment boards and my Kickr was affected.
will this work with the Wahoo V6?
Yes, once they upgrade and release the new firmware.
Does it has also Auto Calibration and 10HZ Race Mode now?
Yes, auto calibration (covered in the latter half of the video), no word on Race Mode.
Do you know if this will be available on Kickr V6 og Kickr Move ??
Yes, soonish.
can i buy just a cog and put it on my core?