Thanks Elliot. There will be another comeback in physical media, this time with Blu-rays and 4K in future years (nostalgia and access will play a part). In fact, it would make more sense than the current resurgence of CDs and vinyl. Film licenses and rights are scattered across many streaming services, which means we don’t easily have access to a vast collection of classic and older titles by just signing up to one or two platforms. These titles rarely see the light of day, and if they do, they’re usually buried deep within the streaming services in most cases. As a result, boutique labels will likely grow in size and influence. But certainly big Hollywood blockbusters and television shows will highly likely see a major reduction and to be brutally honest I can’t understand how standard definition DVDs are still surviving - that’s possibly one area of physical media coming to an end soon.
@@coolhandluke-123I thought the same about dvds, then I went to a couple of stores in Spain and Italy where people still regularly come to a store and buy lots of dvds.I guess since they are cheaper and people still used to them more than blu ray/4k... but it was surprising, especially in Italy.
I wonder how Arrow, Criterion, Radiance, Deaf Crocodile and WB Archives are selling year-over-year. Obviously the overall DVD market is declining, but it feels like there's a thriving collector's/enthusiasts market. Vinyl records started the same way.
It's not the disc sales. You have plenty of fanboy hoarders. It's the player sales. You have a collection of 4K coasters if you don't have a player. Player sales tell us the health of the market. The denial is strange to me. To the general population, hard media is out of sight, out of mind. Where do you go and see the best of film on hard media? No many Big Box stores. The number of 18-30 year-olds sitting around thinking up movies to purchase online is staggeringly low. Most of them watch their movies on their phones, tablets or computers. In another 4-5 years, most Boomer collectors will be dead and many could care less as they age. Rising prices aren't going to entice anyone to collect. Gauging this because we like throwing money at such a non-necessity is not the metric to guage reality by. There is a lot of B film crap being thrown out on 4K. It was stuff people would only watch on cable and drew little interest on DVD. So, while the fanboys get hot and bothered by such, 99.9% of the average movie lovers could care less what Vinegar Syndrome or other such boutiques are trying to gouge the basement dwellers collectors with. Don't get me wrong, I like some of these titles. But I don't see most people getting hot and bothered waiting for B and C grade 80s horror to drop on 4K for $ 40-60 a disc. Hard media lovers are the exception, not the rule. I live in a college town where there are plenty of film students and most of them either don't collect or are super selective in what they buy. Half of Lp collectors don't own a turntable. And unlike 4K, you really don't have to spend much to enjoy an Lp. The price range for LP's is far better than what 4K offers. But even Lp prices are driving many collectors over to CD now. And someone has to say it. But the most the people who are impressed with your special editions of Mario Brothers or Neverending Story are either easily impressed or other guy collectors. Unlike Lps, film collecting is dominated by guys. Again, it's player sales that is the gauge for how healthy the market is.
@ If there was no market, why do new labels keep starting up? You're mistaking a mass market for a niche market. In the grand scheme of music revenues, vinyl records are highly niche. It transitioned from a mass market to a niche collectors market. I'd bet the number of turntables sold in 2024 is far less than that of 1974 also - doesn't mean the hobby is dead - just means it's narrowed to enthusiasts. As for "young people" not getting into cinema or blurays. You're right! But if enough young enthusiasts get into the hobby (like say the largely young crowd that waited 8 hours to get into the Criterion Van at NYFF) I think it'll be fine.
Collectors who buy tat to keep sealed on a shelf to show off on their UA-cam Channel what they got and more money than sense is why Boutique labels are in business
More and more people are starting to move back to discs that I know. Here in the US Netflix is removing Breaking Bad next month and my coworker asked me (since she knows I collect) the best place to get BB on either DVD or Blu-ray. Just six months ago she was asking me why I even collect because there's the option to stream. I really think physical media will start growing as streaming becomes more diluted.
It won't start growing, though. People are already subscribed to multiple streaming services. If anything, they'll just buy digital. Streaming isn't the only form of digital media.
An 8% drop is actually pretty optimistic. The falls have been much more substantial in recent years and that suggests we're likely hitting the baseline for the market here in the UK. There will always be a collectors market. The 4K market is definitely a growing market. You only need to look in HMV for signs of this where the 4K section has been expanding in stores. While it might seem that the trend will always be downwards, considering that last year was a poor year for major movie releases, I'm actually optimistic for positive growth in the future. While streaming might seem like the future now, I'm seeing more and more people saying they're cancelling subscriptions and going back to physical films. With the rising costs of streaming, the poor quality content that often populates those services, the introduction of adverts, and the low profitability of the streaming model, I think we will see physical movies make a resurgence. It's obviously not going to be mainstream again, but that collector's market will grow and we'll likely see growth of some kind like physical music.
I think this is spot on. I've seen tons of 4K releases last year, and some big popular films being remastered for the format that I thought would never come out (like The Abyss). I think you're right too that 2024 was just a weak year for major movies. And yep, seems like a lot of streaming services just don't have a ton of content people are that excited to watch. I think within the last year, we used Netflix for a couple months to watch Cobra Kai and Squid Game Part 2. We actually find quite a bit of content for free on Tubi. And if we see something we really enjoy we will try to pick up a used Blu-ray.
Same here let’s keep buying them in 2025 and keep physical media alive all we got left are the music stores 🏬 are keeping it alive so I’m not worry 📀📀💿💿💿💽💽💽🤙🤙🤙🤙🤙
I have never bought more physical media then last year and will continue this year. So much is available on line and when they have sales even better. So there's nothing to worry about for the collector. There will be a future for many years to come just like vinyl the joy of taking the disk out of the case and enjoying the art work putting it on and watching the movie is a wonderful experience.
Exactly I’ve been buying and selling cds 💿 all my life and we gonna continue in 2025 Let the streamers 😅😅😅😅 cheap asss lazyyyyy people waste their money on high prices while we music collectors buy our cds 💿 DVDs blue rays 4ks and records alive and support our favorite artist 🤙🤙🤙🤙💽💿💿💿📀📀📀💵💵💵💴💴💴💴
Great video Elliot and was a good move to films into context with music and games. Music has traditionally been my main love but since 2020 I've gotten back into movies in a big way and fallen down the boutique rabbit hole. I also bought a Switch and got back into games (and old love) since 2020 too and Balatro has rekindled my playing of late (got over 100 hours on it now!). Keep up the good work
I want to keep physical media alive, but ive bought so many 4Ks that are inferior to the blu rays, i cant justify it anymore. They crank the brightness, tint the movie blue or green, use AI to mess with the film in a number of ways, its gross and exhausting
I told myself that i was going to stop collecting dvds and blurays when my library hit 3000, that was about 2 years ago. But an elderly couple who live near my house decided to downsize their 20,000 collection and i couldn't help myself, my collection is now 7000 haha but what epic and rare titles i've picked up for 70 cents each, I was in heaven.
@@violinviolence To live and die in LA, Paris texas, poison ivy, bound, the last seduction, the night porter, the dreamers, PCU, Melancholia, Tyrannosaur, The odessa file, Funny games (both versions), klute, body double, cannibal holocaust just to name a few. Im from NZ and these titles are hard to find here especiall;y at 70 cents each!!
I love buying movies for my collection, but I'm much more interested in movies from 1920-2000 than most releases in 2024. That's probably the biggest problem. I have never bought more movies than in 2024.
Physical media is dropping, and here i am, trying to figure out how to record my blurays of anime onto VHS that were never originally released on vhs because I want that childhood nostalgia and I want to see modern anime in the degraded/distorted asthetic of old video
I'm surprised to see vinyl sales so high. They are so expensive. Some new ones are over £50. It's difficult to get 4 new releases for £100 or less. I think physical movie sales are down because many of the new films did not do so well in the cinema. I think most new mainstream releases are also too expensive. 4K discs should only be £20 if they do not come with a regular blu ray. And I also think Criterion stuff is way too expensive. I just can't afford most of their releases.
It would be interesting to see the split between mass market and boutique titles. My guess would be it is the former that is mostly driving the decline. Boutique has always been a niche market and I think the demand will remain there. Boutique shops should continue to mine their core audience and try to expand it rather than go more mass market which is in decline. Maybe boutique firms could do more joint advertising and cross-promotion to drive more growth in their core audience.
Probably the biggest eventual deciding factor will be the continued availability of mainstream 4K and BluRay physical media players (eg. Now mostly just Panasonic and Sony). If the availability ceases, I find it difficult to imagine a cottage industry filling a gap for what remains of the market: it’s probably a lot more difficult to manufacture an optical drive than, say, a vinyl turntable. In that scenario, physical releases would almost certainly cease. Another factor is the ever-improving quality and lower cost of digital film releases. I regularly buy movies via Apple and have been heartened by the improvements in video quality in such releases. Improved streaming codecs mean drastically reduced compression issues. And, during sales, pricing can be incredibly low. As an example, I bought a 4K Dolby Vision release of Ed Zwick’s ‘Glory’ for £2.99. That combination of easy access and pricing will likely continue to drive this trend.
My input as someone who was seriously toying with the idea of starting a physical Media collection (I’d wager I’m kind of the person that needs to be won over first): I see these sorts of discussions, not the hyperbolic headlines maybe that say ‘physical media is dying!’, but more discussions from channels such as this where there is more nuance and context provided and to be honest, it still doesn’t reassure me. The fact is I don’t know enough about the market and I see 2 big player manufacturers recently announce they’re ceasing production and this really puts me off starting a collection. I primarily don’t use streaming services. I buy digitally. Something I see a lot is people saying ‘oh you don’t actually own what you buy’. Technically true, but realistically rarely an issue. Collecting Blu-ray just seems like too much hassle, too much risk and not worth it considering the size of my TV, how much I’d be able to spend on a player, my sound system etc. Books and music are a different story, but unfortunately I wouldn’t be surprised if Blu-Ray went the way of Laserdisc and DVD
It is actually logical that sales figures for physical media in 2024/2025 and before are no longer the best, as they were in the DVD era, for example, since the majority of people withdrew after the streaming services came along, that is just a fact. The 4K format only sells to a certain group of cinema enthusiasts and no longer to the general public, because only a few people are interested in the best quality and the most beautiful packaging unless they are on the bandwagon. For those who are still passionate about it but are not so keen on the best quality, they would rather buy the DVD and their absolute favourite films on Blu-ray, as UHD doesn't play such a big role. This hobby has now become a luxury premium hobby and no one is forced to support it if it is not fun, but there are still alternatives for the film fan.
I'm not too worried I read streaming is down 23% the more they raise those prices the more customers are just going to cancel their subscriptions. I always said that buying physical media will become a niche market. There may even be a resurgent in a couple of years on physical media just like vinyl is today.
I'm not worried whatsoever. Think of today as the early 1980's. Owning a vcr or beta and collecting or dubbing tapes was a niche idea. It took several years for it to take off. It's just another cycle. It's a collectors market again. You have less options with retail chains like best buy and target backing out, so of course the numbers are down. If there's a collectors market and they're still making money than there's Nothing to worry about.
@@stefcepthey make everything expensive and limited edition now because they know only Collectors will want them they all cash in on the FOMO of these Collectors you see them with walls full of physical media that is still sealed and never been watched
It still feels like we're in the golden age of physical media to me, but I say that as someone who has always been squirreled away in the corners of Giallo, Italian Horror and other non-mainstream interests. But it's exactly those genres where boutique studios have been smashing it out of the park in recent years, and the demand seems to remain high for those suppliers. TL;DR - no one will mourn the death of commercial disc sales, but we're all still here supporting the bespoke producers. Same as it ever was?
For me the worrying sign for movies vs music is that there are collectors of music worldwide with very diverse demographics. There were always record stores in any reasonable big city anywhere around the world, even when the sales were very low, first because of MP3s then with streaming. In the case of movie releases in physical media the sales are very concentrated in a few countries like USA, UK, France, Germany, Japan and a couple other countries. At least on local stores, of course people from other countries also buy editions from those markets.
@@mig1017I used them recently and the shipping is really slow once you get used to next day lol. Took a week or more for my order to arrive and came in two different packages.
Watching limited editions of movies like “The Keep” and “Trick or Treat” selling out nearly instantly… it’s really hard to feel like physical media interest is on the decline. Not to mention major studios releasing VHS like “Alien: Romulus” and “Y2K”
Nah, that's just 'manufactured scarcity' by the boutique labels for those that will pay anything for the next '4K'. If you choose not to play that game there is PLENTY of physical media at reasonable prices for the typical movie lover.
I think physical media will become more niche, but due to that it will become higher quality. Also, I think the only exception to the trend is Germany and Japan. I know in Germany for example, physical Music CDs is still a very big percentage of the market. Also in Japan, physical is still king.
Yes I been know that one day ima visit Japan 🇯🇵 and visit their music stores there cds 💿 are higher better quality sounds and they come with bonus tracks that’s why there cds 💿 are hella expensive
BluRays are around £7.99 for most catalogue films. Many 4K movies are still the same cost, some more releasing at £19.99. HMV offer decent multi buy offers all the time. I don't see these rising costs myself.
@@ApolloT-vp5dn yep, stick with Blu-ray for most films and it is very reasonable prices for what you get. Now, 4K from boutique studio, forget it. That is for 'collectors'.
Another good video thanks Elliot. Personally in terms of film and TV sales declining I think has to do with DVD. This is because the vast majority of people don't really care about quality over price/convenience, many won't even know what 4k is, those people will and are moving to streaming. However there will in my opinion always be those of us that appreciate quality and love collecting physical films, especially 4k.
It will be interesting to see how those numbers are for the US and see if they apply....pretty different resources/access and viewing patterns...the Sony deal with Disney is starting to move forward with things like Con Air and several other titles that were locked away...that path/deal is a big one for physical media growth...studios dont want to spend the upfront $ to release on physical media BUT the more they license those titles out, the better off we will be
It is getting more expensive because it is being centralized within america and shipping costs are higher. Previously manufacturing was here, there and everywhere. Arrow already have society, , maniac cop and the sublime big trouble in little china out of stock to name just a few. Yes they could be gearing up for 4k but even if they did that ( i cant see it) i'd reckon it would only be a very limited run with worldy prices on 4k. To stay alive they have to be expensive because if they are cheap they still wont sell many , america is soon to follow into the absolute decline , they are literally backing their own industry for the moment . The other issue is who would dish out on movies since the millenium? I have perhaps 40-50 titles from these decades. The movie industry can dish out 10 times as many low budget films and subscribers to their streaming services and subscribers will still think they are getting a good deal. Mediocre movies will become the new norm it is already happening the films are replaced with series which is lots of little movies basically . Another issue is a 3 way split of revenue dvd man vs blu ray man vs 4k man which sounds like a good movie title for a circular shaped superhero but is logistically a nightmare for sales. Sony have taken the helm for disney titles but it will be the same old stuff everyone has already got it will flood the market and devalue certain titles for the next 30 years. I personally think new gen just dont have the romantic vision of collecting bundles of what they see as junk they seem to like minimalism whereas i use to stalk my local video shop for posters and put them on my wall as a kid. There is still a video shop in swansea that closed decades ago but like a time capsul a lot of the stuff is still inside. Nobody goes in and nobody comes out 😂. The remaining collectors are probably not enough to support british distribution of physical media. Even the charity shops are ditching donations that then goes to the recycle tip , they then dig a tiny fraction out and sell within their tip shops the rest meets the jaws of fate and the melting pot. I do think some titles will become valuable when things eventually grind to a halt in the same way some bollywood titles did on vhs. Time tells the story we will see. I have what i want on physical til my dieing days all blu ray i wont delve into 4k as i dont think they wull have anywhere near as many titles and i only have a few dvds boxsets no films as i never liked the sound quality on dvd, for me it was cinema everytime until hd appeared.
Its a collector's market. I will always choose physical media over streaming. Could be other factors like cost of living, inflation or just new content being cr@p. There will always be people who want physical media.
4k physical media need get the Laser Disk Style Look and differentiate itself from boring dvds, 4k maybe disks need be larger, big beautiful art like on Record's. Also music CDs 100% , i hate using my phone switching tracks. A music Album 🎶 is like a book and snap shot if that band at that time. Ok there maybe some filler songs though good album should flow.
What gets passed over, is the fact that 4K, is going to be the final format for home use. Studios have always been able to look forward to the next big home format, and continue selling the same films, over, and over again. That entire structure, is gone and GenZ in particular, are perfectly happy with streaming alone.
The average-income person is never going to be able to see the number of films one needs to see to be a film junkie/cineaste/expert or whatever if they're blowing their limited disposable income on nothing but 4K. Hi-res should be reserved for your favorite films and just buy $1 used DVDs to fill in the viewing gaps until you can afford better. I grew up on real screenings of the classics in movie houses on 35 millimeter film, at museums on 16 millimeter, on TV, and on crappy ole VHS and DVD and 15,000 films later I've seen the majority of important movies and still have money left over somehow. And I know which films are great, and why.
I wonder if the numbers account for used physical media from places like cex or music magpie for example. I regularly check cex stock kn the app and the stock numbers have dropped a lot this year so people are buying used more. Maybe people who have started collecting again have turned to used. Which is a great place to start. The one thing I would say in the uk a lot of people use jailbroken firesticks for streaming illgally. A lot of people i know look at me funny when I talk about my collection.
I had stopped buying blu-rays but got back into it in 2024 and dropped most of my streaming services. Prices are the issue with 4K though as many of them are very overpriced but waiting out sales has been worth it.
I only purchased new films I really want which isn't many, as I think the overall quality of production has dropped. I've been a home movie fan since VHS, and have hundreds of dvds and blurays. I only buy Blu-ray 2nd hand. Have a 4k TV and Atmos sound system, but at my age I won't be getting into 4k, only to find 8k is here, albeit an upscaling of 4k for mass production. Streaming means the duff films my wife will watch will never have to be purchased. A price review may encourage a younger consumer, but my boat has sailed 🙃
I think the studios will continue to license out more and more titles and the smaller companies will continue to release the discs for the foreseeable future.
What's worth mentioning is that the average American spent 23% less on streaming in 2024. That's a quarter that just vanished. I think it's dishonest to just chime the doomsday bell for physical media when the alternatives are down too. Me, I'm not worried in the slightest. More titles get physical releases than ever before, and a ton of smaller companies are doing incredible work. For example Vinegar Syndrome's order numbers rise every year. Just because they don't sell physical movies in the local grocery store anymore, doesn't mean the market isn't healthy.
consoles going disc drive less does worry me for the effect that'll have on blu rays etc. It's one less way to play them which could help produce a sharp decline as well.
I suspect that consoles going the discless route will negatively affect console sales in general. What's the point in a digital console with games at sky-high prices, when you can get a PC and shop around?
I spent more on Blu Rays, 4Ks and DVDs in 2024 than I ever had. I have been buying beautiful movie box sets from Arrow and TV series on Imprint Blu Ray.
As much as i want to consider streaming, id rather keep building up my physical media collection as it's worth more to own something unedited rather then try and look for it on streaming and not finding it.
Tricky. I have SOME vinyl LPs. But if I REALLY want an album, I will get the CD 💽. I use DVD (mostly). 📀 But a major reason is that STANDARD DVD 📀 will play in my DVD player 📀, laptop 📀, portable device 📀, or my tablet that plays DVDs. 📀 And the digital age? Well, I'm not excusing myself. I have started to see the advantages of being able to buy a film instantly over amazon.
Am I missing something or this report excludes Amazon sales? Because if so that’s a HUGE elephant in the room. If people are getting back into it this would be a place many will go that want a new copy. Also does it count resales at the likes of CEX. There is always a healthy number of people using that section of my local CEX stores.
Physical media certainly isn't dying, but I fear the movie industry is. The demand for new great films is there, but there's no supply. I remember when looking at upcoming releases was exciting, but nowadays it's been reduced to checking if there's a new 4K remaster of something old and beloved. New cinema is basically not interesting anymore. It's just not me either, all my friends say the same and some have even quit collecting.
The big hollywood films yeah. A film like deadpool and wolverine and Inside Out 2 are doing great. But films like Furiosa not. I see independent movies or films from beloved filmmakers do a lot better, like Nosferatu or Oppenheimer. Film will never die, it will evolve like it always did.
For mainstream studio slop maybe, but I have zero trouble finding new releases in a given year I'm incredibly interested in. the opposite if anything, trying to find time to get to them all.
At least The US and UK still have stores like Walmart or FNAC where you can by them. In The Netherlands the one store that actually sold them “mediamarkt” is throwing them away. They don’t even give a discount. 95% of the physical media we have to buy online and that’s only the mainstream stuff. If I want any movie that is even a bit out of the mainstream I have to either import it as a German or French release or pay more than 80 euros for a single title
Thanks Elliot. I don’t think it’s dying. I just think it’s becoming more and more a collectors market. Speaking for me, I can’t afford upgrades and blind buys anymore. I will spend though collectors editions and steelbooks on my own essentials titles.
It would be interesting to see a more detailed breakdown of how that splits across DVD, Blu-ray and 4K as I suspect much of the decline is driven by DVD where, let’s face it, the quality (if not the integrity of the original film) is often superior via streaming and if I was buying DVD I suspect I too would have largely stopped. At boutique label and 4K level then I fear increasing cost is the bigger concern
People in the past have said vinyl purchases were over and now they’re back. I have even seen some new cassettes in stores. I don’t think physical media is going anywhere. Have seen lots of older TV shows coming out on disc as well as older cartoons here in the US. The audience may be smaller now but more and more folks are upset with streaming for various reasons so physical media is becoming more appealing these days.
I think the long concern is around the great job a lot of boutique labels are doing with older films , how long can that keep going without double and treble dipping, I'm far more likely to buy a film from the 80s then I am the 2020's , so there is only a limited number of films , yes a large number but still a limited, a lot will depend on the younger generations buying habits long term, I think there is still plenty of mileage yet though 📼
I think it stinks that physical media is going away. Not everyone has high-speed internet, especially reliable internet. I can't watch via the internet during rain or snow storms. The other issue is the storage of high-quality files. It adds up very quickly. Unfortunately, the cost of physical media hasn't come down. The prices are the highest I've ever seen. You can't tell me it costs that much to make a Blu-ray disk.
It's not going away. There will always be people who want a physical item. From books, to music, to films and video games. The companies not catering to these markets are leaving money on the table.
@ApolloT-vp5dn I hope not. The next problem my be finding Blu-ray players but at my age I'm sure there are enough in warehouses or used ones on eBay to get me through.
Sales went down because the last 5 months they jacked the prices up trying to be greedy! And unfortunately a lot of folks including myself have skipped any movies . I'll never buy digital but I'm certainly not spending 50 bucks on a 4k either .
Criterion and WB Archives are continuing to release good stuff on Blu-Ray and maybe 4K. I am not sure about other studios, but I think Universal is still pretty active.
I'd like to know unit sales instead of cash values. Sadly I don't know to many who collect physical media anymore but the ones I do have stopped buying 4Ks. Its seems like everyone I knew who does collect (myself included) had a phase of buying 4Ks but have all gone back to blu ray So instead if £25-£35 for a basic new release 4K they are buying the £10-£15 blu ray Maybe it's just a coincidence it's everyone I know but I think there is a good chance that's apart of it. Alot (myself included) are happy with the quality of Blu Ray and in the case for alot of stuff DVD Last thing is I know that as far as units sold CD always outsold vinyl. Mental to think a new vinyl now can be up to £40 whereas a new release CD is still £10-£13 in general
personally I agree with you but I am sad that if the prices keep increasing and, most importantly and perhaps overlooked in some analysis, the availability gets more and more limited (which forces you to import movies, multiplying the cost on top of the already high price tag), i might end up giving up on the hobby unfortunately
I wanted to buy a portable 4k drive to watch movies on my PC. Turns out it only works if I have a specific motherboard and a specific Intel Chip beccause "special piracy protocol". The greed. And by the way, Sony is at fault as well. The license cost for Blu-ray players was way too high (the DVD license was free). So the medium never really caught up to the sales of DVDs. Hence why you can still buy DVDs in stores and they are often in bigger supply than Blu-ray discs (at least where I live). Greed. I don't think the medium is dying either, but it needs course correction and a proper unified standard, which HDR is not, and 4k isn't worth it for most movies and most screens/projections. I'm personally totally fine with a good 2k or 4k master on a "normal" SDR Blu Ray Disc.
4K is absolutely worth it and HDR is standardised between two formats and discs usually offer both. If you don't think 4K is worth it, you haven't been shown worthwhile discs.
You can rip discs and watch them uncompressed to your heart's content, but realtime playback on PC is a nightmare I gave up on long ago. Intel has also effectively killed it entirely going forward anyway because they're the absolute worst.
The numbers are just absolutely mad not taking into consideration any increases or decreases %. Surely physical media is more than £156 million. With the peicing of a studio 4k being £24.99 and boutique even more. Dvd's on re release £10 and then digital being £4.8 billion total. That does seem huge gap and i notice that the digital is not split to rental compared to owned
That it is only £156 million on Physical Media. Based on the most expensive blockbuster studio release being £24.99 that would equate to 6 million discs sold across the huge amounts of titles (obviously DVD and Bluray are cheaper but even so it's not that high Especially as cinema admissions are lower due to the high cost you would expect Physical Media to be higher than £156million no?
Given that there are only a couple of manufacturers of Ultra HD Bluray and they rarely update their firmware, its not only the discs that are slowly being phased out but also the players
I'm not worried about it. It's gone full back to the future mode as it was exactly like this when I first started collecting DVDs way back in the very early 2000s. Whilst you could get a fair few titles for reasonable prices at mainstream retailers here in Australia there were tons of titles unavailable locally and online stores to import didn't really exist. So you'd have to go to specialist stores like Minotaur or some smaller targetted shops that popped up in the city that imported US DVDs and you'd have to pay $50 to $75 bucks a movie (on average) for those imported discs. So it was really only the niche hardcore movie fans / collectors which would be prepared to spend that money. Idiots like me basically lol. And now again we are evolving back to the same sort of things except we can get them through online stores instead unlike back in those days. I don't think movies and TV on physical media will die for a very long time (perhaps one day) as there will always be those with the money and space and a passion for film who wants those physical copies, audio commentaries and other insightful special features and read the books of essays to gain more insight into the films they watch etc. Not sure about the art cards though. Still haven't worked out what I'm supposed to do with those lol. I know you share that view. Anyway I'm not so worried about it vanishing. I'm more worried at the increased costs (including shipping) in the last 2 or 3 years which have become exorbitant compared to 5 or 6 years ago. Plus the old space issues of course. But there's so much stuff coming out that I have no hope of getting everything I want so it's clearly far from dying!
I also wonder if CDs will make a comeback like vinyl records have. People still find it interesting that I collect physical media and I always have to explain it, "why not just stream it" etc...
The talk is that CDs are actually expected to make a comeback this year. Especially in the USA, specialist music shops are saying they're seeing strong signs of that happening.
I don’t know how others feel but if physical media goes away. They will get very little money out of me. I don’t buy digital and I watch jack shit on streaming.
Streaming is garbage 🤮🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮 for lazyyyyy peopld want everything for free and don’t support Artist Physical media forever 🤙🤙🤙📀📀💿💿💿 let’s keep it alive and pray for the cd 💿 revival in 2025 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I imagine a big factor of videogames not thriving on physical media is that often they are NOT on the physical media you buy at all. You get an empty case without a disc to put on your shelf, or the game on disc still needs online patches or (worse) online services to even run at all. So the preservation/owner aspect of physical media vanishes.
Like the only physical videogame I would buy anymore would be an older game that fits on the media and can be installed independently of Steam or any other marketplace or DRM service.
I always thought the "reports" about no one making Blu-Ray players was idiotic. All we have to do is ask why would companies relasse Seinfeld, major movies, major TV series, etc if there would be no one making players to watch them? As for Spotify. I recently released an album, when I compare what you hear on a my master or a CD vs Spotify, it is criminal.
I'm not worried. Seems like people are buying stuff from the boutique labels just as much as ever. Thing is - if they quit making Blu-ray, I will probably quit buying movies period. I will use free services instead and they'll make $0 off of me.
@@ApolloT-vp5dn I think Tubi is a great service, costs nothing and they have quite a bit of content I enjoy watching. The ads are fairly minimal really...
@@ApolloT-vp5dn That's my biggest issue with digital movies and TV. Even though you can "buy" them through a service like Vudu or Apple, they are selling you a non-perpetual license that can be taken away at any time. I'm not getting left with nothing when some greedy corporation like Sony decides to take all my stuff away. I buy used Blu-rays pretty much exclusively. I will get a 4K every once in a great while when it's a movie I really love like The Thing or Terminator (just a few I have). I still have a couple of DVDs left. I don't mind Apple for a rental before I buy a Blu-ray. But often I find Tubi has a lot of stuff for free... No reason for me to pay for streaming when I can find plenty of free content.
You know how I look at it : if you see how much they dare to ask for dvd's nowadays, they either do it on purpose or they try to push the people to buy 4K, because they know that this format is not selling like they've planned. My daughter, 12 years old, has gone crazy for Vinyl and now my son, 20 is copying his sister. Lower the price for dvd's a little bit and you will see sales go up again. Like I said before, I have nothing against streaming services, but they will implode very soon, because you'll have a new generation amongst the older generation, that will want to buy movies on physical media again. Either this or piracy will go up. And then what?
Huh? DVDs outsell BD and 4K right now. I think they make up something like 55% of all physical movie and TV sales. 4K is the format that isn't really catching on like they hoped it would. And sadly, BD will probably get left behind in it all.
@@LordDementus1987You could be right about the Blu-ray. I also think it's stupid that you have to resort to 4K more and more often just to own the Blu-ray, but I'm not going along with that.
I used to buy a lot of stuff but with the wild prices these days I don't bother unless it is something I really want. The boutique release prices are nuts. Pair that with crappy economies around the world still.
@@AchtungEnglander I agree but not everything holds it's value indefinitely. Some stuff I bought 15-20 years ago was worth a small fortune at one time but a newer better version eventually comes out in most cases. We all thought we had the biggest best release of said movie at the time 20 years ago then eventually you can't give it away on eBay lol. There are exceptions of course.
IMy Cd collection and my DVD collection isn't going anywhere. I buy them every month off Amazon and eBay. Keep buying physical formats.Streaming or renting no thanks.By the way I'm in America
34% drop in physical Video Game sales is horrible news, the best deals for games are always physical and if physical dies on consoles a huge part of the physical movie market goes with it.
I do worry long term as I have thousands of hours of content- some of which I will want to watch or rewatch over the next couple of decades. I will need replacement players eventually.
@@ElliotCoen Many thanks to you, similair being the key word. Studios might help them selves, by releasing titles on blu-ray and 4k in more countries. It does not help dumping a title on UK customers as DVD only then releasing that title as Blu with English audio in other countries. Warners are the worst protaganists of this dirty habbit. David Attenborough's recent title called Mammals is another culprit
Turntables are "cool" Movie players are not. This is the problem. Having a state of the art music system is impressive. Having a state of the art theatre system is nerdy. It's a shallow, superficial problem but it's clear as day. Both worlds are in the niche, enthusiast market but one niche enthusiast market is trendy and the other is misunderstood/underrepresented.
The term "physical media" is so vague. What does it really mean? Do people buy "physical media" simply because it's physical, or because of the repeatable experience it makes available to them? How many times do most people watch and re-watch a single movie, compared to how many times they may listen to all or part of a CD or LP? Until relatively recently, the ONLY way to have a movie or a piece of music accessible for instantaneous on-demand play was to possess it in some physical form. In the digital network age, that's no longer the case. So, the market is by necessity becoming a more limited one.
I can't answer for others, but I buy Blu-ray still because the quality is much better than streaming, but the discs are more reliable and a lot more affordable than 4Ks. For music, I've mostly gone to FLAC downloads. CD-quality which sounds fantastic on my home theater system, and lossless for archival on my NAS. Plus no DRM.
I can only speak for myself and I still collect and buy films physically because I grew up with them. Films that I loved and watched in the VHS days are now partly on DVD or BLURAY and yes, I am one of those people who watches the stuff often, just like in the old days, and there's nothing wrong with being nostalgic :-)
I really can't see how you are so relaxed and solely positive with such a prognosis, Elliot. Not to be overly attacking but I've seen your viewpont by many people who already have a substantual physical media collection. For people wanting to get into the hobby of collecting physical movies, other than boutique Blu-rays (which are only getting more expensive all the time), that future certainly does not look very promising. If we follow the trend, physical media might never die, but the volume of releases will continue to decline. This means even higher costs and even more limited releases (just look at what happened with The Keep alone). And for out-of-print movies or titles that, at some point, really won't ever get a re-release-because, as you said yourself, physical movies are shifting away from (or have already left) the mainstream-what little audience will be able to obtain those then? Physical media will exist, but so does every rare thing to a certain degree. However, if most people can't obtain it, then how is that point relevant to the majority? I therefore see this decline with a lot of pessimism, unfortunately. At the moment you can buy alot of movies pretty cheap but that will look much different in a couple of years.
Fk 4K and the overpriced boutiques...start buying as many BLU-RAY as you can in the next few years. They are cheap, ubiquitous and PLENTY good for most people. I collect more blu-ray than ever in 2024 since 4K prices are INSANE for the small increase picture/sound. I will still buy 4K occasionally when it makes sense but it seems everyone 'needs' 4K these days or somehow they can't enjoy THE FILM.
Is this a worrying sign or just more of the expected? Let me know what you think!
Thanks Elliot.
There will be another comeback in physical media, this time with Blu-rays and 4K in future years (nostalgia and access will play a part).
In fact, it would make more sense than the current resurgence of CDs and vinyl. Film licenses and rights are scattered across many streaming services, which means we don’t easily have access to a vast collection of classic and older titles by just signing up to one or two platforms. These titles rarely see the light of day, and if they do, they’re usually buried deep within the streaming services in most cases. As a result, boutique labels will likely grow in size and influence. But certainly big Hollywood blockbusters and television shows will highly likely see a major reduction and to be brutally honest I can’t understand how standard definition DVDs are still surviving - that’s possibly one area of physical media coming to an end soon.
i think we will be ok for a few years more you never know i never thourght lps would come back tc steve
@@miserableoldgit1411exactly - I think we have a good decade or two of physical boutique releases.
@@coolhandluke-123I thought the same about dvds, then I went to a couple of stores in Spain and Italy where people still regularly come to a store and buy lots of dvds.I guess since they are cheaper and people still used to them more than blu ray/4k... but it was surprising, especially in Italy.
4K Blu Ray is killing itself with its pricing.
And drm
I started collecting physical media in 2024 and will continue for years to come. A nice positive note to leave the video on Elliot!
Let's not worry just keep Physical media alive ...and look forward to the new 4K release of Dirty Harry and Pale Rider and many more.
I wonder when they'll come out with Outlaw Josey Wales on 4K.
@@LordDementus1987Along with the two films Terry mentioned, all three are coming out
I wonder how Arrow, Criterion, Radiance, Deaf Crocodile and WB Archives are selling year-over-year. Obviously the overall DVD market is declining, but it feels like there's a thriving collector's/enthusiasts market. Vinyl records started the same way.
I’d like to know this as well. I’d bet they are doing quite well
It's not the disc sales. You have plenty of fanboy hoarders.
It's the player sales. You have a collection of 4K coasters if you don't have a player. Player sales tell us the health of the market.
The denial is strange to me. To the general population, hard media is out of sight, out of mind. Where do you go and see the best of film on hard media? No many Big Box stores.
The number of 18-30 year-olds sitting around thinking up movies to purchase online is staggeringly low. Most of them watch their movies on their phones, tablets or computers.
In another 4-5 years, most Boomer collectors will be dead and many could care less as they age.
Rising prices aren't going to entice anyone to collect.
Gauging this because we like throwing money at such a non-necessity is not the metric to guage reality by. There is a lot of B film crap being thrown out on 4K. It was stuff people would only watch on cable and drew little interest on DVD. So, while the fanboys get hot and bothered by such, 99.9% of the average movie lovers could care less what Vinegar Syndrome or other such boutiques are trying to gouge the basement dwellers collectors with. Don't get me wrong, I like some of these titles. But I don't see most people getting hot and bothered waiting for B and C grade 80s horror to drop on 4K for $ 40-60 a disc.
Hard media lovers are the exception, not the rule. I live in a college town where there are plenty of film students and most of them either don't collect or are super selective in what they buy.
Half of Lp collectors don't own a turntable. And unlike 4K, you really don't have to spend much to enjoy an Lp. The price range for LP's is far better than what 4K offers.
But even Lp prices are driving many collectors over to CD now.
And someone has to say it. But the most the people who are impressed with your special editions of Mario Brothers or Neverending Story are either easily impressed or other guy collectors. Unlike Lps, film collecting is dominated by guys.
Again, it's player sales that is the gauge for how healthy the market is.
@ silly ass comment. Can’t believe I read all that
@ If there was no market, why do new labels keep starting up? You're mistaking a mass market for a niche market. In the grand scheme of music revenues, vinyl records are highly niche. It transitioned from a mass market to a niche collectors market. I'd bet the number of turntables sold in 2024 is far less than that of 1974 also - doesn't mean the hobby is dead - just means it's narrowed to enthusiasts.
As for "young people" not getting into cinema or blurays. You're right! But if enough young enthusiasts get into the hobby (like say the largely young crowd that waited 8 hours to get into the Criterion Van at NYFF) I think it'll be fine.
Collectors who buy tat to keep sealed on a shelf to show off on their UA-cam Channel what they got and more money than sense is why Boutique labels are in business
More and more people are starting to move back to discs that I know. Here in the US Netflix is removing Breaking Bad next month and my coworker asked me (since she knows I collect) the best place to get BB on either DVD or Blu-ray. Just six months ago she was asking me why I even collect because there's the option to stream. I really think physical media will start growing as streaming becomes more diluted.
It won't start growing, though. People are already subscribed to multiple streaming services. If anything, they'll just buy digital. Streaming isn't the only form of digital media.
Another brilliant video Elliot! Love your channel and always come to you for your take on all things physical media and movie opinions
An 8% drop is actually pretty optimistic. The falls have been much more substantial in recent years and that suggests we're likely hitting the baseline for the market here in the UK.
There will always be a collectors market. The 4K market is definitely a growing market. You only need to look in HMV for signs of this where the 4K section has been expanding in stores.
While it might seem that the trend will always be downwards, considering that last year was a poor year for major movie releases, I'm actually optimistic for positive growth in the future.
While streaming might seem like the future now, I'm seeing more and more people saying they're cancelling subscriptions and going back to physical films. With the rising costs of streaming, the poor quality content that often populates those services, the introduction of adverts, and the low profitability of the streaming model, I think we will see physical movies make a resurgence.
It's obviously not going to be mainstream again, but that collector's market will grow and we'll likely see growth of some kind like physical music.
I think this is spot on. I've seen tons of 4K releases last year, and some big popular films being remastered for the format that I thought would never come out (like The Abyss). I think you're right too that 2024 was just a weak year for major movies. And yep, seems like a lot of streaming services just don't have a ton of content people are that excited to watch. I think within the last year, we used Netflix for a couple months to watch Cobra Kai and Squid Game Part 2. We actually find quite a bit of content for free on Tubi. And if we see something we really enjoy we will try to pick up a used Blu-ray.
Yep especially when you consider the lack of big releases in 2024 and the cost of living issues.. I’m surprised it’s not worse.
I'm not worried. I will still continue to buy physical media for as long as keep putting out more titles.
Same here let’s keep buying them in 2025 and keep physical media alive all we got left are the music stores 🏬 are keeping it alive so I’m not worry 📀📀💿💿💿💽💽💽🤙🤙🤙🤙🤙
I have never bought more physical media then last year and will continue this year. So much is available on line and when they have sales even better. So there's nothing to worry about for the collector. There will be a future for many years to come just like vinyl the joy of taking the disk out of the case and enjoying the art work putting it on and watching the movie is a wonderful experience.
Exactly I’ve been buying and selling cds 💿 all my life and we gonna continue in 2025 Let the streamers 😅😅😅😅 cheap asss lazyyyyy people waste their money on high prices while we music collectors buy our cds 💿 DVDs blue rays 4ks and records alive and support our favorite artist 🤙🤙🤙🤙💽💿💿💿📀📀📀💵💵💵💴💴💴💴
I'm not interested in spotify, netflix or any other streaming service, I want physical media, owning nothing will not make me happy
You can do both. Shocking??!!
Great video Elliot and was a good move to films into context with music and games. Music has traditionally been my main love but since 2020 I've gotten back into movies in a big way and fallen down the boutique rabbit hole. I also bought a Switch and got back into games (and old love) since 2020 too and Balatro has rekindled my playing of late (got over 100 hours on it now!). Keep up the good work
I’m a major collector of vinyl and movies. My favorite vinyl experience is used discs. My average price paid for movies, primarily 4k, is $20
I want to keep physical media alive, but ive bought so many 4Ks that are inferior to the blu rays, i cant justify it anymore. They crank the brightness, tint the movie blue or green, use AI to mess with the film in a number of ways, its gross and exhausting
I would really like to see the year over year stats for the boutique labels specifically.
I told myself that i was going to stop collecting dvds and blurays when my library hit 3000, that was about 2 years ago. But an elderly couple who live near my house decided to downsize their 20,000 collection and i couldn't help myself, my collection is now 7000 haha but what epic and rare titles i've picked up for 70 cents each, I was in heaven.
What were some of your favorite scored titles?
@@violinviolence To live and die in LA, Paris texas, poison ivy, bound, the last seduction, the night porter, the dreamers, PCU, Melancholia, Tyrannosaur, The odessa file, Funny games (both versions), klute, body double, cannibal holocaust just to name a few. Im from NZ and these titles are hard to find here especiall;y at 70 cents each!!
I love buying movies for my collection, but I'm much more interested in movies from 1920-2000 than most releases in 2024. That's probably the biggest problem.
I have never bought more movies than in 2024.
Don’t worry, I’m pumping those numbers up for 2025 😂
Same here 💿💿💿🤙🤙🤙
Physical media is dropping, and here i am, trying to figure out how to record my blurays of anime onto VHS that were never originally released on vhs because I want that childhood nostalgia and I want to see modern anime in the degraded/distorted asthetic of old video
I'm surprised to see vinyl sales so high. They are so expensive. Some new ones are over £50. It's difficult to get 4 new releases for £100 or less.
I think physical movie sales are down because many of the new films did not do so well in the cinema. I think most new mainstream releases are also too expensive. 4K discs should only be £20 if they do not come with a regular blu ray.
And I also think Criterion stuff is way too expensive. I just can't afford most of their releases.
It would be interesting to see the split between mass market and boutique titles. My guess would be it is the former that is mostly driving the decline. Boutique has always been a niche market and I think the demand will remain there. Boutique shops should continue to mine their core audience and try to expand it rather than go more mass market which is in decline. Maybe boutique firms could do more joint advertising and cross-promotion to drive more growth in their core audience.
We need Taylor Swift to start shilling 4k Blu-rays
@@TylerJuranovich if they’d have released the Eras tour on physical media it would have sold crazy numbers!
@@ElliotCoenTaylor swift sells a lot of cds 💿 and records 😅that’s why cds 💿 are number 1 😅😅😅💴💴💴💴💵💵💵📀📀💿💿📀📀💽💽💽💽
@@ElliotCoen1000% I wouldn’t be surprised if she does tbh. Then a special edition, then a special special edition. Haha
Probably the biggest eventual deciding factor will be the continued availability of mainstream 4K and BluRay physical media players (eg. Now mostly just Panasonic and Sony). If the availability ceases, I find it difficult to imagine a cottage industry filling a gap for what remains of the market: it’s probably a lot more difficult to manufacture an optical drive than, say, a vinyl turntable. In that scenario, physical releases would almost certainly cease. Another factor is the ever-improving quality and lower cost of digital film releases. I regularly buy movies via Apple and have been heartened by the improvements in video quality in such releases. Improved streaming codecs mean drastically reduced compression issues. And, during sales, pricing can be incredibly low. As an example, I bought a 4K Dolby Vision release of Ed Zwick’s ‘Glory’ for £2.99. That combination of easy access and pricing will likely continue to drive this trend.
I just cannot see this being a problem. It's no more difficult to make optical drives over a record stylus.
My input as someone who was seriously toying with the idea of starting a physical
Media collection (I’d wager I’m kind of the person that needs to be won over first): I see these sorts of discussions, not the hyperbolic headlines maybe that say ‘physical media is dying!’, but more discussions from channels such as this where there is more nuance and context provided and to be honest, it still doesn’t reassure me. The fact is I don’t know enough about the market and I see 2 big player manufacturers recently announce they’re ceasing production and this really puts me off starting a collection.
I primarily don’t use streaming services. I buy digitally. Something I see a lot is people saying ‘oh you don’t actually own what you buy’. Technically true, but realistically rarely an issue.
Collecting Blu-ray just seems like too much hassle, too much risk and not worth it considering the size of my TV, how much I’d be able to spend on a player, my sound system etc.
Books and music are a different story, but unfortunately I wouldn’t be surprised if Blu-Ray went the way of Laserdisc and DVD
It is actually logical that sales figures for physical media in 2024/2025 and before are no longer the best, as they were in the DVD era, for example, since the majority of people withdrew after the streaming services came along, that is just a fact.
The 4K format only sells to a certain group of cinema enthusiasts and no longer to the general public, because only a few people are interested in the best quality and the most beautiful packaging unless they are on the bandwagon.
For those who are still passionate about it but are not so keen on the best quality, they would rather buy the DVD and their absolute favourite films on Blu-ray, as UHD doesn't play such a big role.
This hobby has now become a luxury premium hobby and no one is forced to support it if it is not fun, but there are still alternatives for the film fan.
I'm not too worried I read streaming is down 23% the more they raise those prices the more customers are just going to cancel their subscriptions. I always said that buying physical media will become a niche market. There may even be a resurgent in a couple of years on physical media just like vinyl is today.
I'm not worried whatsoever. Think of today as the early 1980's. Owning a vcr or beta and collecting or dubbing tapes was a niche idea. It took several years for it to take off. It's just another cycle. It's a collectors market again. You have less options with retail chains like best buy and target backing out, so of course the numbers are down. If there's a collectors market and they're still making money than there's Nothing to worry about.
But then it becomes something only those with deep pockets can enjoy.
@@stefcepthey make everything expensive and limited edition now because they know only Collectors will want them they all cash in on the FOMO of these Collectors you see them with walls full of physical media that is still sealed and never been watched
collectors paying $200 for plastic toy chainsaw or a $ box in a box in a giant big box that looks like a Book😂
It still feels like we're in the golden age of physical media to me, but I say that as someone who has always been squirreled away in the corners of Giallo, Italian Horror and other non-mainstream interests. But it's exactly those genres where boutique studios have been smashing it out of the park in recent years, and the demand seems to remain high for those suppliers. TL;DR - no one will mourn the death of commercial disc sales, but we're all still here supporting the bespoke producers. Same as it ever was?
For me the worrying sign for movies vs music is that there are collectors of music worldwide with very diverse demographics. There were always record stores in any reasonable big city anywhere around the world, even when the sales were very low, first because of MP3s then with streaming.
In the case of movie releases in physical media the sales are very concentrated in a few countries like USA, UK, France, Germany, Japan and a couple other countries. At least on local stores, of course people from other countries also buy editions from those markets.
HMV just opened in Kingston.
@@daveinchina it’s always good to hear of new shops opening!
Hmvs online retail are top notch. Especially the protective packaging they use. Unlike Amazon and Ravewares . Diabolical packaging.
@@mig1017I used them recently and the shipping is really slow once you get used to next day lol. Took a week or more for my order to arrive and came in two different packages.
Watching limited editions of movies like “The Keep” and “Trick or Treat” selling out nearly instantly… it’s really hard to feel like physical media interest is on the decline. Not to mention major studios releasing VHS like “Alien: Romulus” and “Y2K”
Nah, that's just 'manufactured scarcity' by the boutique labels for those that will pay anything for the next '4K'. If you choose not to play that game there is PLENTY of physical media at reasonable prices for the typical movie lover.
@ Putting manufactured scarcity in quotations like that is a bit silly. Like you’re searching for the right words and hoping those are the right ones.
@ Nope...those are the exact words I want.
@@994pt4 It's the quotations, not the words, that he's addressing.
@@ApolloT-vp5dn well I change to single quote cuz that look cooler!
EVEN IF CDs and DVDs and Blu Rays die out, I will NEVER stream ANYTHING.
Except youtube of course :D
I think physical media will become more niche, but due to that it will become higher quality.
Also, I think the only exception to the trend is Germany and Japan. I know in Germany for example, physical Music CDs is still a very big percentage of the market.
Also in Japan, physical is still king.
Yes I been know that one day ima visit Japan 🇯🇵 and visit their music stores there cds 💿 are higher better quality sounds and they come with bonus tracks that’s why there cds 💿 are hella expensive
The problem of physical media is the high prices! We are paying too much and the prices are been increasing!
BluRays are around £7.99 for most catalogue films. Many 4K movies are still the same cost, some more releasing at £19.99.
HMV offer decent multi buy offers all the time.
I don't see these rising costs myself.
@@ApolloT-vp5dn yep, stick with Blu-ray for most films and it is very reasonable prices for what you get. Now, 4K from boutique studio, forget it. That is for 'collectors'.
They may be referring to 4K and boutique labels. I havent seen the increase myself in The States but that's just my guess.
@ApolloT-vp5dn not for new blu rays, a new blu is £14.99 or more and godzilla minus one is £16.99 on HMV
100% agree. HMV is always got offers on the go. Lets keep supporting physical media and our HMV.@ApolloT-vp5dn
Interesting response.
Another good video thanks Elliot. Personally in terms of film and TV sales declining I think has to do with DVD. This is because the vast majority of people don't really care about quality over price/convenience, many won't even know what 4k is, those people will and are moving to streaming. However there will in my opinion always be those of us that appreciate quality and love collecting physical films, especially 4k.
It will be interesting to see how those numbers are for the US and see if they apply....pretty different resources/access and viewing patterns...the Sony deal with Disney is starting to move forward with things like Con Air and several other titles that were locked away...that path/deal is a big one for physical media growth...studios dont want to spend the upfront $ to release on physical media BUT the more they license those titles out, the better off we will be
It is getting more expensive because it is being centralized within america and shipping costs are higher. Previously manufacturing was here, there and everywhere. Arrow already have society, , maniac cop and the sublime big trouble in little china out of stock to name just a few. Yes they could be gearing up for 4k but even if they did that ( i cant see it) i'd reckon it would only be a very limited run with worldy prices on 4k. To stay alive they have to be expensive because if they are cheap they still wont sell many , america is soon to follow into the absolute decline , they are literally backing their own industry for the moment . The other issue is who would dish out on movies since the millenium? I have perhaps 40-50 titles from these decades. The movie industry can dish out 10 times as many low budget films and subscribers to their streaming services and subscribers will still think they are getting a good deal. Mediocre movies will become the new norm it is already happening the films are replaced with series which is lots of little movies basically . Another issue is a 3 way split of revenue dvd man vs blu ray man vs 4k man which sounds like a good movie title for a circular shaped superhero but is logistically a nightmare for sales. Sony have taken the helm for disney titles but it will be the same old stuff everyone has already got it will flood the market and devalue certain titles for the next 30 years. I personally think new gen just dont have the romantic vision of collecting bundles of what they see as junk they seem to like minimalism whereas i use to stalk my local video shop for posters and put them on my wall as a kid. There is still a video shop in swansea that closed decades ago but like a time capsul a lot of the stuff is still inside. Nobody goes in and nobody comes out 😂. The remaining collectors are probably not enough to support british distribution of physical media. Even the charity shops are ditching donations that then goes to the recycle tip , they then dig a tiny fraction out and sell within their tip shops the rest meets the jaws of fate and the melting pot. I do think some titles will become valuable when things eventually grind to a halt in the same way some bollywood titles did on vhs. Time tells the story we will see. I have what i want on physical til my dieing days all blu ray i wont delve into 4k as i dont think they wull have anywhere near as many titles and i only have a few dvds boxsets no films as i never liked the sound quality on dvd, for me it was cinema everytime until hd appeared.
Its a collector's market. I will always choose physical media over streaming. Could be other factors like cost of living, inflation or just new content being cr@p. There will always be people who want physical media.
4k physical media need get the Laser Disk Style Look and differentiate itself from boring dvds, 4k maybe disks need be larger, big beautiful art like on Record's.
Also music CDs 100% , i hate using my phone switching tracks. A music Album 🎶 is like a book and snap shot if that band at that time. Ok there maybe some filler songs though good album should flow.
What gets passed over, is the fact that 4K, is going to be the final format for home use. Studios have always been able to look forward to the next big home format, and continue selling the same films, over, and over again. That entire structure, is gone and GenZ in particular, are perfectly happy with streaming alone.
dont worry, physical media will always be preserved longer than we think..depending on stream costing our earth
The average-income person is never going to be able to see the number of films one needs to see to be a film junkie/cineaste/expert or whatever if they're blowing their limited disposable income on nothing but 4K. Hi-res should be reserved for your favorite films and just buy $1 used DVDs to fill in the viewing gaps until you can afford better. I grew up on real screenings of the classics in movie houses on 35 millimeter film, at museums on 16 millimeter, on TV, and on crappy ole VHS and DVD and 15,000 films later I've seen the majority of important movies and still have money left over somehow. And I know which films are great, and why.
I wonder if the numbers account for used physical media from places like cex or music magpie for example.
I regularly check cex stock kn the app and the stock numbers have dropped a lot this year so people are buying used more. Maybe people who have started collecting again have turned to used. Which is a great place to start.
The one thing I would say in the uk a lot of people use jailbroken firesticks for streaming illgally. A lot of people i know look at me funny when I talk about my collection.
Just remember those funny looks are from the sheep that follow the herd. It's nice to be different.
Too expensive, 30 euro plus for new 4k releases
I had stopped buying blu-rays but got back into it in 2024 and dropped most of my streaming services. Prices are the issue with 4K though as many of them are very overpriced but waiting out sales has been worth it.
Loved collecting, pricing plus all the different editions became wayyy too much so I just exited the market all together.
I only purchased new films I really want which isn't many, as I think the overall quality of production has dropped. I've been a home movie fan since VHS, and have hundreds of dvds and blurays. I only buy Blu-ray 2nd hand. Have a 4k TV and Atmos sound system, but at my age I won't be getting into 4k, only to find 8k is here, albeit an upscaling of 4k for mass production. Streaming means the duff films my wife will watch will never have to be purchased. A price review may encourage a younger consumer, but my boat has sailed 🙃
I dont know..i can't keep up with all the 4k releases!
I think the studios will continue to license out more and more titles and the smaller companies will continue to release the discs for the foreseeable future.
price is certainly a reason i have bought less over the last year
What's worth mentioning is that the average American spent 23% less on streaming in 2024. That's a quarter that just vanished.
I think it's dishonest to just chime the doomsday bell for physical media when the alternatives are down too.
Me, I'm not worried in the slightest. More titles get physical releases than ever before, and a ton of smaller companies are doing incredible work. For example Vinegar Syndrome's order numbers rise every year.
Just because they don't sell physical movies in the local grocery store anymore, doesn't mean the market isn't healthy.
New vinyl wasn't sold anywhere on the high-street in most UK towns for years. Then suddenly it made a resurgence and physical music sales were up too.
consoles going disc drive less does worry me for the effect that'll have on blu rays etc. It's one less way to play them which could help produce a sharp decline as well.
I suspect that consoles going the discless route will negatively affect console sales in general. What's the point in a digital console with games at sky-high prices, when you can get a PC and shop around?
I’ve never enjoyed physical media more, there’s just no beating a great 4k disc. Streaming may have the same words but they’re not close.
I spent more on Blu Rays, 4Ks and DVDs in 2024 than I ever had. I have been buying beautiful movie box sets from Arrow and TV series on Imprint Blu Ray.
Pretty much my assessment of 2024.
Hard to buy something you can’t find,would it kill Target and Best Buy to set aside a small section for new releases at least?
As much as i want to consider streaming, id rather keep building up my physical media collection as it's worth more to own something unedited rather then try and look for it on streaming and not finding it.
If Physical media did die, it would be very sad, but no one would be coming to take the collection I have away, so that would at least still exist.
Tricky. I have SOME vinyl LPs. But if I REALLY want an album, I will get the CD 💽. I use DVD (mostly). 📀 But a major reason is that STANDARD DVD 📀 will play in my DVD player 📀, laptop 📀, portable device 📀, or my tablet that plays DVDs. 📀 And the digital age? Well, I'm not excusing myself. I have started to see the advantages of being able to buy a film instantly over amazon.
Read those terms. You didn't buy the film, you rented it.
Am I missing something or this report excludes Amazon sales? Because if so that’s a HUGE elephant in the room. If people are getting back into it this would be a place many will go that want a new copy.
Also does it count resales at the likes of CEX. There is always a healthy number of people using that section of my local CEX stores.
Sales are low because less retailers are carrying it.
Physical media certainly isn't dying, but I fear the movie industry is. The demand for new great films is there, but there's no supply.
I remember when looking at upcoming releases was exciting, but nowadays it's been reduced to checking if there's a new 4K remaster of something old and beloved. New cinema is basically not interesting anymore. It's just not me either, all my friends say the same and some have even quit collecting.
The big hollywood films yeah. A film like deadpool and wolverine and Inside Out 2 are doing great. But films like Furiosa not. I see independent movies or films from beloved filmmakers do a lot better, like Nosferatu or Oppenheimer. Film will never die, it will evolve like it always did.
For mainstream studio slop maybe, but I have zero trouble finding new releases in a given year I'm incredibly interested in. the opposite if anything, trying to find time to get to them all.
@@EduardKoek1 yeah I should've been more clear - I was talking about Hollywood. :)
At least The US and UK still have stores like Walmart or FNAC where you can by them. In The Netherlands the one store that actually sold them “mediamarkt” is throwing them away. They don’t even give a discount. 95% of the physical media we have to buy online and that’s only the mainstream stuff. If I want any movie that is even a bit out of the mainstream I have to either import it as a German or French release or pay more than 80 euros for a single title
Thanks Elliot. I don’t think it’s dying. I just think it’s becoming more and more a collectors market.
Speaking for me, I can’t afford upgrades and blind buys anymore. I will spend though collectors editions and steelbooks on my own essentials titles.
It would be interesting to see a more detailed breakdown of how that splits across DVD, Blu-ray and 4K as I suspect much of the decline is driven by DVD where, let’s face it, the quality (if not the integrity of the original film) is often superior via streaming and if I was buying DVD I suspect I too would have largely stopped. At boutique label and 4K level then I fear increasing cost is the bigger concern
People in the past have said vinyl purchases were over and now they’re back. I have even seen some new cassettes in stores. I don’t think physical media is going anywhere. Have seen lots of older TV shows coming out on disc as well as older cartoons here in the US. The audience may be smaller now but more and more folks are upset with streaming for various reasons so physical media is becoming more appealing these days.
Hey. Cool to hear you’re into music and vinyl. What artists / kind of music are you giving time to at the moment?
Do ya think they'll be another Criterion sale in the UK this year?
I think the long concern is around the great job a lot of boutique labels are doing with older films , how long can that keep going without double and treble dipping, I'm far more likely to buy a film from the 80s then I am the 2020's , so there is only a limited number of films , yes a large number but still a limited, a lot will depend on the younger generations buying habits long term, I think there is still plenty of mileage yet though 📼
I think it stinks that physical media is going away. Not everyone has high-speed internet, especially reliable internet. I can't watch via the internet during rain or snow storms.
The other issue is the storage of high-quality files. It adds up very quickly.
Unfortunately, the cost of physical media hasn't come down. The prices are the highest I've ever seen. You can't tell me it costs that much to make a Blu-ray disk.
It's not going away. There will always be people who want a physical item. From books, to music, to films and video games. The companies not catering to these markets are leaving money on the table.
@ApolloT-vp5dn I hope not. The next problem my be finding Blu-ray players but at my age I'm sure there are enough in warehouses or used ones on eBay to get me through.
@ There's enough laserdisc players available and fully working. Which was a niche, niche, niche, niche format comparably.
Digital ownership is not ownership. Digital libraries can disappear.
Sales went down because the last 5 months they jacked the prices up trying to be greedy! And unfortunately a lot of folks including myself have skipped any movies . I'll never buy digital but I'm certainly not spending 50 bucks on a 4k either .
Criterion and WB Archives are continuing to release good stuff on Blu-Ray and maybe 4K. I am not sure about other studios, but I think Universal is still pretty active.
No I don't like what I see, but I have a big collection of dvds and blu ray discs that should keep me happy for years
I'd like to know unit sales instead of cash values. Sadly I don't know to many who collect physical media anymore but the ones I do have stopped buying 4Ks. Its seems like everyone I knew who does collect (myself included) had a phase of buying 4Ks but have all gone back to blu ray
So instead if £25-£35 for a basic new release 4K they are buying the £10-£15 blu ray
Maybe it's just a coincidence it's everyone I know but I think there is a good chance that's apart of it.
Alot (myself included) are happy with the quality of Blu Ray and in the case for alot of stuff DVD
Last thing is I know that as far as units sold CD always outsold vinyl. Mental to think a new vinyl now can be up to £40 whereas a new release CD is still £10-£13 in general
personally I agree with you but I am sad that if the prices keep increasing and, most importantly and perhaps overlooked in some analysis, the availability gets more and more limited (which forces you to import movies, multiplying the cost on top of the already high price tag), i might end up giving up on the hobby unfortunately
Do you know, if these numbers include purchases from non UK buyers (me, for example) in UK shops?
I wanted to buy a portable 4k drive to watch movies on my PC. Turns out it only works if I have a specific motherboard and a specific Intel Chip beccause "special piracy protocol".
The greed.
And by the way, Sony is at fault as well. The license cost for Blu-ray players was way too high (the DVD license was free). So the medium never really caught up to the sales of DVDs. Hence why you can still buy DVDs in stores and they are often in bigger supply than Blu-ray discs (at least where I live). Greed.
I don't think the medium is dying either, but it needs course correction and a proper unified standard, which HDR is not, and 4k isn't worth it for most movies and most screens/projections. I'm personally totally fine with a good 2k or 4k master on a "normal" SDR Blu Ray Disc.
4K is absolutely worth it and HDR is standardised between two formats and discs usually offer both.
If you don't think 4K is worth it, you haven't been shown worthwhile discs.
You can rip discs and watch them uncompressed to your heart's content, but realtime playback on PC is a nightmare I gave up on long ago. Intel has also effectively killed it entirely going forward anyway because they're the absolute worst.
Nailed it!...I've moved BACK to blu-ray from 4K because the value isn't there in most cases. Even for projecting onto my 130" screen.
The numbers are just absolutely mad not taking into consideration any increases or decreases %. Surely physical media is more than £156 million. With the peicing of a studio 4k being £24.99 and boutique even more. Dvd's on re release £10 and then digital being £4.8 billion total. That does seem huge gap and i notice that the digital is not split to rental compared to owned
The cinema revenues for 2024 were around 1bn. What's mad about 156m?
That it is only £156 million on Physical Media. Based on the most expensive blockbuster studio release being £24.99 that would equate to 6 million discs sold across the huge amounts of titles (obviously DVD and Bluray are cheaper but even so it's not that high Especially as cinema admissions are lower due to the high cost you would expect Physical Media to be higher than £156million no?
@@gavtom86 I would not expect it to be higher, no.
Given that there are only a couple of manufacturers of Ultra HD Bluray and they rarely update their firmware, its not only the discs that are slowly being phased out but also the players
Firmware is required to address specific issues. 4K has always been niche, and I suspect there's nothing to worry about.
I'm not worried about it. It's gone full back to the future mode as it was exactly like this when I first started collecting DVDs way back in the very early 2000s. Whilst you could get a fair few titles for reasonable prices at mainstream retailers here in Australia there were tons of titles unavailable locally and online stores to import didn't really exist. So you'd have to go to specialist stores like Minotaur or some smaller targetted shops that popped up in the city that imported US DVDs and you'd have to pay $50 to $75 bucks a movie (on average) for those imported discs. So it was really only the niche hardcore movie fans / collectors which would be prepared to spend that money. Idiots like me basically lol. And now again we are evolving back to the same sort of things except we can get them through online stores instead unlike back in those days. I don't think movies and TV on physical media will die for a very long time (perhaps one day) as there will always be those with the money and space and a passion for film who wants those physical copies, audio commentaries and other insightful special features and read the books of essays to gain more insight into the films they watch etc. Not sure about the art cards though. Still haven't worked out what I'm supposed to do with those lol. I know you share that view. Anyway I'm not so worried about it vanishing. I'm more worried at the increased costs (including shipping) in the last 2 or 3 years which have become exorbitant compared to 5 or 6 years ago. Plus the old space issues of course. But there's so much stuff coming out that I have no hope of getting everything I want so it's clearly far from dying!
I also wonder if CDs will make a comeback like vinyl records have.
People still find it interesting that I collect physical media and I always have to explain it, "why not just stream it" etc...
You are not the only one..I love physical media
The talk is that CDs are actually expected to make a comeback this year.
Especially in the USA, specialist music shops are saying they're seeing strong signs of that happening.
@@ApolloT-vp5dnwe have Aomeba records here in Los Angeles keeping physical media alive cds 💿 forever on 2025 💿💿💿💿🤙🤙📀📀📀📀💵🏬🏬🏬🏬
I don’t know how others feel but if physical media goes away. They will get very little money out of me. I don’t buy digital and I watch jack shit on streaming.
Yup! That's my position.
Streaming is garbage 🤮🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮 for lazyyyyy peopld want everything for free and don’t support Artist Physical media forever 🤙🤙🤙📀📀💿💿💿 let’s keep it alive and pray for the cd 💿 revival in 2025 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I imagine a big factor of videogames not thriving on physical media is that often they are NOT on the physical media you buy at all. You get an empty case without a disc to put on your shelf, or the game on disc still needs online patches or (worse) online services to even run at all. So the preservation/owner aspect of physical media vanishes.
Like the only physical videogame I would buy anymore would be an older game that fits on the media and can be installed independently of Steam or any other marketplace or DRM service.
The majority of PS5 games are on the disc. It's a myth that games don't come on the disc.
@@ApolloT-vp5dn I was mainly speaking from a PC perspective, but PS5 games still need patches.
I always thought the "reports" about no one making Blu-Ray players was idiotic. All we have to do is ask why would companies relasse Seinfeld, major movies, major TV series, etc if there would be no one making players to watch them? As for Spotify. I recently released an album, when I compare what you hear on a my master or a CD vs Spotify, it is criminal.
I'm not worried. Seems like people are buying stuff from the boutique labels just as much as ever. Thing is - if they quit making Blu-ray, I will probably quit buying movies period. I will use free services instead and they'll make $0 off of me.
Yup. I will never pay for digital licences and ridiculous rising streaming costs.
@@ApolloT-vp5dn I think Tubi is a great service, costs nothing and they have quite a bit of content I enjoy watching. The ads are fairly minimal really...
@@ApolloT-vp5dn That's my biggest issue with digital movies and TV. Even though you can "buy" them through a service like Vudu or Apple, they are selling you a non-perpetual license that can be taken away at any time. I'm not getting left with nothing when some greedy corporation like Sony decides to take all my stuff away. I buy used Blu-rays pretty much exclusively. I will get a 4K every once in a great while when it's a movie I really love like The Thing or Terminator (just a few I have). I still have a couple of DVDs left. I don't mind Apple for a rental before I buy a Blu-ray. But often I find Tubi has a lot of stuff for free... No reason for me to pay for streaming when I can find plenty of free content.
Gutted with news of physical media but will continue to buy
BluRay and 4K sales were actually up in that report.
You know how I look at it : if you see how much they dare to ask for dvd's nowadays, they either do it on purpose or they try to push the people to buy 4K, because they know that this format is not selling like they've planned. My daughter, 12 years old, has gone crazy for Vinyl and now my son, 20 is copying his sister. Lower the price for dvd's a little bit and you will see sales go up again. Like I said before, I have nothing against streaming services, but they will implode very soon, because you'll have a new generation amongst the older generation, that will want to buy movies on physical media again. Either this or piracy will go up. And then what?
Huh? DVDs outsell BD and 4K right now. I think they make up something like 55% of all physical movie and TV sales. 4K is the format that isn't really catching on like they hoped it would. And sadly, BD will probably get left behind in it all.
@@LordDementus1987You could be right about the Blu-ray. I also think it's stupid that you have to resort to 4K more and more often just to own the Blu-ray, but I'm not going along with that.
I used to buy a lot of stuff but with the wild prices these days I don't bother unless it is something I really want. The boutique release prices are nuts. Pair that with crappy economies around the world still.
The prices are high but that becomes a 2 edge sword - they are expensive to buy but that should mean they retain their resale price.
@@AchtungEnglander I agree but not everything holds it's value indefinitely. Some stuff I bought 15-20 years ago was worth a small fortune at one time but a newer better version eventually comes out in most cases. We all thought we had the biggest best release of said movie at the time 20 years ago then eventually you can't give it away on eBay lol. There are exceptions of course.
Good point. I guess the only option is to buy sparringly and when you can afford it and to forget about FOMO
@ Yea that’s pretty much what I do.
Nintendo switch 2 will no doubt boost physical media game sales
IMy Cd collection and my DVD collection isn't going anywhere. I buy them every month off Amazon and eBay. Keep buying physical formats.Streaming or renting no thanks.By the way I'm in America
I feel 4 Kay Blu-Rays will have to come down in price to keep the physical market alive.
As the format grows, which seems to be the case, that would happen naturally.
34% drop in physical Video Game sales is horrible news, the best deals for games are always physical and if physical dies on consoles a huge part of the physical movie market goes with it.
I do worry long term as I have thousands of hours of content- some of which I will want to watch or rewatch over the next couple of decades. I will need replacement players eventually.
You have more chance of your favourite things disappearing from digital or streaming platforms than player availability being an issue.
Elliot but which country do these claims apply to, usa? every country is different
@@keancv this report is specific to the UK but like I say in the video, it’ll be a similar story in the US and other major markets for physical media
@@ElliotCoen Many thanks to you, similair being the key word. Studios might help them selves, by releasing titles on blu-ray and 4k in more countries. It does not help dumping a title on UK customers as DVD only then releasing that title as Blu with English audio in other countries. Warners are the worst protaganists of this dirty habbit. David Attenborough's recent title called Mammals is another culprit
Turntables are "cool" Movie players are not. This is the problem. Having a state of the art music system is impressive. Having a state of the art theatre system is nerdy. It's a shallow, superficial problem but it's clear as day. Both worlds are in the niche, enthusiast market but one niche enthusiast market is trendy and the other is misunderstood/underrepresented.
The term "physical media" is so vague. What does it really mean? Do people buy "physical media" simply because it's physical, or because of the repeatable experience it makes available to them? How many times do most people watch and re-watch a single movie, compared to how many times they may listen to all or part of a CD or LP? Until relatively recently, the ONLY way to have a movie or a piece of music accessible for instantaneous on-demand play was to possess it in some physical form. In the digital network age, that's no longer the case. So, the market is by necessity becoming a more limited one.
I can't answer for others, but I buy Blu-ray still because the quality is much better than streaming, but the discs are more reliable and a lot more affordable than 4Ks. For music, I've mostly gone to FLAC downloads. CD-quality which sounds fantastic on my home theater system, and lossless for archival on my NAS. Plus no DRM.
I can only speak for myself and I still collect and buy films physically because I grew up with them. Films that I loved and watched in the VHS days are now partly on DVD or BLURAY and yes, I am one of those people who watches the stuff often, just like in the old days, and there's nothing wrong with being nostalgic :-)
I really can't see how you are so relaxed and solely positive with such a prognosis, Elliot.
Not to be overly attacking but I've seen your viewpont by many people who already have a substantual physical media collection.
For people wanting to get into the hobby of collecting physical movies, other than boutique Blu-rays (which are only getting more expensive all the time), that future certainly does not look very promising.
If we follow the trend, physical media might never die, but the volume of releases will continue to decline. This means even higher costs and even more limited releases (just look at what happened with The Keep alone).
And for out-of-print movies or titles that, at some point, really won't ever get a re-release-because, as you said yourself, physical movies are shifting away from (or have already left) the mainstream-what little audience will be able to obtain those then?
Physical media will exist, but so does every rare thing to a certain degree. However, if most people can't obtain it, then how is that point relevant to the majority?
I therefore see this decline with a lot of pessimism, unfortunately.
At the moment you can buy alot of movies pretty cheap but that will look much different in a couple of years.
Fk 4K and the overpriced boutiques...start buying as many BLU-RAY as you can in the next few years. They are cheap, ubiquitous and PLENTY good for most people. I collect more blu-ray than ever in 2024 since 4K prices are INSANE for the small increase picture/sound. I will still buy 4K occasionally when it makes sense but it seems everyone 'needs' 4K these days or somehow they can't enjoy THE FILM.
The physical market for PC games has been dead for nearly 20 years. There isn't even a collectors market to speak of.
Your charts are wrong. 2023 was the biggest year in the history of physical media.
They’re not my charts lol. Where’s your data then?