Just so you all know, I have another UA-cam page called Michael Jordan fans are the worst sports fans of all time. You can find the link to the page in the description section. Please subscribe to the page then.
I like that 'title' , i say that about mik fans ALL THE TIME ! ... They are Delusional & Ir-rational about ANY other player , BUT mik 🤷♂️??? ... lt's like Basketball NEVER existed Before or Since 'mik' ??? ... l tell them ALL , that they're STUCK , 'INSULATED' & Living inside some Quarter-Century's Old Antique 90's TIME-WARP ... & AFRAID to come out & Recognize this is a NEW DAY & ERA , PERIOD ! ...
You did exactly what I predicted that you would do. And you don't even realize what you did then.........anyway......I didn't read what you wrote. I don't get into online typing wars with any of you zombie Michael Jordan fans. Now, listen to me carefully. If you have a problem with something, then go on my podcast and show me what your problem is. Stop being so scared. Go on my podcast and prove me wrong on what ever you disagree on. Prove to me that any of the ridiculous things you write are true. Prove to me that you know more than me about the NBA. But you won't go on my podcast and do any of these things. You know why? Because you're scared. And you know why you're scared? Because you know that you have no proof on any of these things. You know that you will lose, and make a fool of yourself, and embarrass yourself, and get owned then. I mean, if you really believed in your head then that you were right on what ever you disagree on, you would go on my podcast and prove it. If you really believed in your head that everything you wrote is true, you would go on my podcast and prove it. I mean think about this genius. If you really believed in your head that your right on what ever you disagree on, and everything you wrote is true, you would want to go on and show people that you are going to prove me wrong, and make a fool out of me, and expose me, and embarrase me. But you are purposley not going on and it's because you know that you have no proof of these things. You know that if you go on you are going to lose, you are going to make a fool of yourself, you are going to embarrass yourself, and you are going to get owned. The reason you want to type online is becuase you feel like it's easier to make yourself feel like your winning. And because you feel more comfortable typing online. Anyone can type online. Anyone can act like they are on top when they type online. Anyone can act like an online tough guy. And anyone can act like they are an online smart guy. But prove the things you write. Back up the things you write. And even if you want to type online, you didn't prove how I was wrong in anything that you disagree on. And when it comes to what ever you disagree on, you didn't prove how anything you wrote is true. So you lost. So stop acting like your winning.............now..............I want you to think about what you typed..........You were rude. You were insulting. You were disrespectful. And you were overall negative. You also guessed things, assumed things, lied, and wrote mis-leading things. You also contradicted yourself, cherry picked things, moved the goal post, and acted like a hypocrite. You also wrote things that were not factual, not logical, not reasonable, and showed that you are not going by common sense. You had no reason to do these things. But you did it. Think about that. And now ask yourself why did you do all of these things? Well I will not list all of the reasons. I will list most of them. And there is no particular order to the reasons. You love Michael Jordan, you are influenced by the media about him, you haven't done enough research about the NBA, your not that smart then, you got annoyed, triggered, frustrated, angry, you know you have no facts to prove me wrong in anything, you know you have no logic that shows how anything I write is questionable, you know you have nothing to show that I contradicted myself in anything, you know you have nothing that will show that I don't know enough about the NBA, you don't want to admit that anything I wrote is true, you don't want to admit that your wrong in anything, you have a pride issue, and you are so desperate to type something to make yourself feel like you won. So these are most of the reasons that you wrote the silly and negative things that you wrote. So think about what that makes you. That means you are strange, ridiculous, emotional, weird, you have nothing better to do, you got issues, your bored, and you are immature............Also.............when it comes to every silly and negative thing you wrote, there is an answer for each thing. I can show you how all your silly and negative takes are questionable. But you don't want to know how they are questionable then............anyway..........I want you to think about a few more things then. You come to my page. You come to my page because you love it. None of the silly or negative things you wrote about me are true. All the silly and negative things you wrote about me you could have written about yourself. You wrote things that only a Michael Jordan fan would write then. No one will agree with you on anything that you wrote except Michael Jordan fans. You are a typical Michael Jordan fan. And you are an example of why Michael Jordan fans are the worst sports fans of all time...............ok.......now.......I predict that you will ignore most of my points, you will not go on my podcast, you will act like you did nothing wrong, and you will keep typing the same kind of things that you already typed.
Oscar Robertson was a great player in that he could do it all - Oscar could shoot, pass, and rebound at a high level and was the original Mr Triple Double.
Oscar is so right about Elgin. I grew up in New England watching the Russell led Celtics. And Baylor was one of the best players of that generation. Always have thought of him as one of a handful of those players that could play today.
I had the great honor of covering for TV Oscar Robertson's induction into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame in 1980. Jerry West was also inducted that day. Both were great players and great ambassadors of the game!
@michaelarmenta8289 - You are so right! Neither he nor Connie Hawkins (who was THE original Dr. J) ever received the credit or accolades they truly deserved .
Only because the emphasis is put on rings, and Elgin technically did not win one with his team. Those of us who saw him play every night KNOW how great a player he was.
@@lionheartmerrill1069 - My favorite too. One of the most inspirational ad campaigns of that era was Carnation Evaporated Milk's, it showed Elgin Baylor hanging in the air under the caption: "Elgin Baylor was a Carnation baby and look at him now!" The guy inspired me to get a college basketball scholarship and set me on the road to success!
@@AnthonyRobinson-dc3pq Yes Sir, Pete could fill it up. As you know he averaged 44 a game in college. He is 1 of the all time greats. He wanted to be remembered as a Christian, I would like the same for me.
OSCAR ROBERTSON IS THE BEST PERIMETER PLAYER IN NBA 🏀 HISTORY .. HE'S #4 ON MY ALL-TIME LIST .. AFTER BILL RUSSELL .. WILT CHAMBERLAIN .. AND KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR ..
@@Cryptoman_5000 Nah, Oscar graduated High School in 1956 (Crispus Attucks in Indianapolis) - plenty of folks still alive that are old enough to remember him. I do grant that that generation is starting to die off in significant numbers. My Mom would probably remember him - she graduated from Lawrence (also Indianapolis) a year or two before that, and should remember him leading his school to back-to-back Championships AND the first unbeaten Indiana HS championship - though she's NOT in Ohio and never lived there.
Another GREAT video Sir! I love these interviews with the legends of the NBA. I justcwish the videos were longer. I can listen to these legends like the BIG O, JERRY WEST and WILT for hours on end. You have a GREAT page Mr Universe Galaxy!
Yeah...Elgin said that exactly several years ago when he was on his book tour a couple years before he died. He said it with a grin and an "oh well" kinda vibe. He understood how the games rules are called. Look up carrying in the rule book...it is constant in todays game. Even in Jordan's era they called it much more. It is weird when the refs actually call it!
That's the thing about comparing eras; the game today bears little resemblance to the one played in the 60's and 70's. Could the '72 Lakers beat the great Warrior teams of recent years? Depends on what rules you're playing under. You transport the '72 team to current day and they'd have a tough time. Now make the Warriors play under '72 rules. Those 3's that Curry, Klay and Durant pour in at 40%? Yeah they're just long twos and bad shots. So all those high weaves and pick and rolls are useless, because the sagging man to man defense isn't coming out more than 17-18 feet to contest, The Euro step? Sorry, traveling. Most of the crossovers? Palming. Flopping on contact? Mendy Rudolph and Richie Powers would laugh at you. Pulling the center away from the hoop? No requirement back in the day so when you take it to the basket the most athletic seven footer in history is waiting for you.
Well said. I remember "no layups" before that silly little semi-circle around the basket. And calling offensive fouls. But you're right- different game today- but I still watch- just the highlights though.@@steveswanson4496
I think a lot of this crap started back in the 90s after Bird and Magic left and MJ was on his way out . The NBA under Stern constantly marketed itself not as a team league but a “ superstar that happens to play for this team “ league . So they had to come up with little things to help create “ superstars.” So they let Shaq CHARGE that big @&& into people so he would not have to develop a mid-range game and so he could appear “ unstoppable .” No way Shaq would’ve gotten away with what he got away with in the 60s. They started letting people overtly palm the bal - and I use the word “ overtly” on purpose because they don’t even bother trying to hide it today. I took a ref class and reffed a few games decades ago . I know that palming can be discreet . These guys today don’t even bother . Palming the ball enables the dribbler to look that much more evasive , that much more like “ superstar” with “ super capabilities. And the euro step thing ? Hell, 30 years ago if we had seen that the whole d*mn coliseum would be laughing at what an obvious TRAVEL it is . Players today are great . I think , by and large , the average player is better than players 30-40 years ago BUT BUT BUT the NBA , since it’s whole marketing is to make individual players look “ super” , they do everything possible to make them appear so, including letting them palm and walk and let the big men they want to promote charge .
Thank you for a video on one of the truly class acts the NBA has ever produced- Oscar Robertson. He's right: Elgin Baylor is largely forgotten today, and it's an effin' shame that he is. One of the greatest basketball quotes I've ever read concerned Elgin: "He doesn't ignore the Law of Gravity, but he's awfully slow in obeying it."
@@oldude979Oscar and Rick rubbed some people the wrong way. As did Kobe. But no one can be faulted for their desire, passion and competitiveness. And talent.
@@Amick44 Rick, (3 time All American) was sanctioned by NCAA (before he played a game) resulting in Miami being banned from NCAA tournament for 3yrs. Won NBA rookie of yea & scoring title. Jumped to ABA (for money). Jumped back to NBA (for money), won title with Golden State. Man after my own heart, always went for the gold
@@oldude979when money was a factor, it was also an opportunity for him to play for his father-in-law Bruce Hale,as his coach in Oakland. Once the team move to Washington the next season he was unhappy there. But the following season they traded him to the New York Nets. Rick liked playing in New York and did not want to leave. But a court order stated that once his original ABA contract expired he had to return to the Warriors.
Basketball equipment has not really changed. But the rule enforcement has. Back in the old days you could not palm or travel. Put these modern players back with old school refs....they wouldn't be able to get a shot off. lol Doesn't mean they aren't good/great with today's rules, but fingertips on top of the ball or it's palming. That's it. Whistle blows. Turnover. Now.....now watch Baylor, Jerry West, Big O, Cousy, et. al. The best of their time are the best in the game throughout time, imo.
I watched a lot of Oscar Robertson back in the 1960s, and he earned the nickname: "The BIG-O"! He is one of the greatest players I have ever seen! I'm so glad he finally got to win a title with the Bucks at the end of his career. The Cincinnati Royals just couldn't get over the hump even with Oscar on their team. As a fan of the Celtics since 1960, I saw a lot of Elgin Baylor in our battles with the Lakers. Elgin was a superstar, and one of the greatest all-round players the NBA has ever had.
Thought Petit was great player but I just remember he and other teammates not standing up to the racist faction (led by Cliff Hagen) on the Hawks that refused to play with black players the Hawks drafted. Since Hagen was a star the Hawks traded away rookies Willie Nauls to the Knicks (went on to be 5 time all star) after 19 games & Ken McBride (scored 30 & 20 pts his first 2 games) after only 12 games. Wish Petit could have mirrored Pee Wee Reese standing up for Jackie Robinson
@@lance6112 Damn, you missed my point altogether. I didn't say he was a racist. I said I remember him not standing up for what's right. As a 10 year old that's what I remember. And it has nothing to do with talent.
I never saw Elgin play in person but from what I did see on tv I am certain that his game would hold up very well in today’s NBA. As for Oscar, I did see him on a number of occasions in person when the Royals came to play the Knicks in the mid to late 60’s. No doubt in my mind that he would be top tier star in today’s game. The game is different now, but super athletes like Baylor and Robertson definitely had the skills that would let them thrive in any era.
Elgin invented a lot of the amazing moves the top players use today. He was the first player with enough hang time to elevate with the ball, then decide what to do with it. Although known as a scorer he was one of the best defenders ever. At 6'5 he could guard any forward in the league, including those who were a half foot taller.
Its hard to compare eras but I think he was like the Kawhi Leonard of his era. A bit shorter with a shorter wingspan but physically strong, tough, fast and gifted.
@@robertzimmer8311 I agree the comparison of Elgin with Kawhi is a good one. They like to play inside but also have excellent outside shots. Elgin may have been the first player known especially for his leaping ability -- Kawhi jumps well but he often executes his inside fakes on the ground. Both players were totally dedicated to winning and had to be guarded for every second on the floor.
Victor Wembanyama of the Spurs reminds me a lot of a young Lou 'Kareem Abdul-Jabbar' Alcindor. I remember when Kareem was playing in college and then his rookie season in the NBA. Two great rookie talents, Abdul-Jabbar and Wembanyama.
Elgin Baylor was the forerunner of Dr. J. Baylor had more moves than Doc and Michael. Better shooter than Doc, and more moves off the dribble than Doc or Michael. If you disagree with my option then you never saw him play. Career stats: 27 points; 14 reb; 5 ast. At age 27 he had his best season 38 points & 19 rebounds per game. REMEMBER this man was only 6 feet 5 inches tall. One reason he is forgotten by this generation is he never won a title. Couldn't beat the Bill Russell Celtics in 7 finals. Since fans today think greatness only comes if you win a championship, no one but us old timers know the truth.
I had the good fortune to be studying engineering at the University of Cincinnati when Oscar Robertson was playing for the Bearcats. I also so Russell, Kareem, Wilt, etc., during my lifetime. What I best remember about The Big O is that, in a close game with maybe five minutes or so left, he could simply take over the game. Everybody knew exactly what he was doing, and nobody could stop him. Also, remember that in his era, referees actually called palming and traveling; in today's basketball that's almost never called. The only other player I saw could take over a game when it was obvious that he intended to do so was Larry Bird.
Oscar Robertson had class. I did not hear him talk negatively about anyone. The great ones do not need to berate other players, which he shares with Larry Bird and Ervin Johnson.
The debate in Oscar’s era was who was the best around player in the league at that time. Wilt wasn’t in the conversation, because he was a big man, who was from entirely different planet. Never has been anything like him, and never will be. It always came down to Elgin or Oscar. You could make a case for either. I’m 81, so I saw both of them in their prime, head to head. Oscar wasn’t flashy, but he could do everything, and do it great. Great shooter, excellent passer, saw the whole floor, outstanding rebounding guard. Averaged a triple double one year, and probably could have done it often if he cared about. Had a basketball IQ was off the charts. Saw the game like Magic, just not as flashy.Made everybody on his team better. Good defensively as well. To this day, I’d have a hard time choosing between Magic and Oscar as the top point guard I’ve ever seen. Elgin was one of a kind. Can’t begin to describe his all around ability. Incredible moves around the basket, played the basketball or his back to it. Best passing,and ball handling forward the league had ever seen. Way ahead of his his time. Until Elgin, no NBA forward had taken the ball the ball off the boards, brought it up against guards, and either took it all the way found an open man, or passed his teammate open. The guy was only 6’5. Very strong, exceptionally strong hands. Pound for pound, one the greatest rebounding forwards in the history of the league. At 6’5, he averaged as high as 19 bounds the same year he averaged 38ppg, and 5 assists. Always one of the top rebounders in the league, despite the size differential. Good shooter, unbelievable driver. No one has ever seen his arsenal of moves. Even more unstoppable than Oscar. Other than Wilt, he was the most unstoppable player in the league. There was nothing you do with him. Tom Sanders, of the Celtic, the top defensive forward in the game, said it was like nailing jello to a wall. The Celtics, with Russell talking care of the lane, Sanders, and K C Jones, the best defensive guard in the league, used to triple team him. Didn’t matter. He once scored 61 points in a playoff game against them. As an aside, with the possible exception of Moses Malone, a 6’10 center, he was best offensive rebounder I’ve ever seen. The only 6’5 forward I’d put in his category as a rebounder, offensive or defensive, would be Charles Barkley. The only problem Elgin had was health. He really only had 3 or 4 healthy years. His knees gave out 2 or 3 times. The Lakers didn’t know if he’d ever walk again, let alone play. Playing on one leg for the larger balance of his career, he played, comparatively, at All Star level, averaging between 25 to 27 ppg, but he was never the same. He was the Doctor J and Jordan of his time. The Lakers had a hell of a team in those years, but they had to go against the Celtics with Russell, of all people, with NO center whatsoever. If they had any kind of decent center. just someone like a Bellamy or a Zelma Beatty, my guess is they would have won at least one championship, maybe more. They had West. Baylor, Lararusso, and Dick Barnett , but that was it. The Celtics not only had depth. They had quality depth, which is probably an understatement. And still, the Lakers took them to the end of their rope . Those matchups were classic. Who was the better all around player, Baylor or Oscar? It was pretty much up in the air then, and it still is. You couldn’t go wrong with either.
Finally, a legend talking about the greatness of another legend. Elgin Baylor is without a doubt the most underrated player of all time. And , you know what? Oscar Robertson is probably the second most underrated. They both could do everything well. Pure greatness.
There are TONS of old NBA stars the media overlooks. Including Oscar. Didn’t he average a triple double one year or something like that? I saw him at the old Chicago Stadium in the ‘70’s more than once when he was with the Bucks and Kareem.
he is so right about everything. Elgin is the great overlooked one. But the all time top 10 is getting crowded. Elgin is probably somewhere between 11 and 14
Elgin Baylor did what worked at the time. Very efficient. No one would call him a high flyer today. But he was smart and could adjust and would still be an NBA star today. Kyrie Irving is the Elgin Baylor today, hanging in the air, adjusting his shot, keeping it from being blocked. Elgin would have to up his game for today but I'm sure he could.
I am an old fart and the same could be said about Larry as they all say he couldn't jump and was slow but his fundamental's where sound and he had incredible basket ball IQ.
Magic and Kareem reset professional basketball. All the greats that came before them are nearly ignored. Few sports writers today actually saw how great, Oscar, Wilt, Bill Russel, George Gervin, Jerry West, Bob Cousy and Elgin Baylor were. Some give lip service and maybe saw Dr. Jay and Moses at the ends of their careers, but they really don't know or understand how great they were. Those legends of the old days only make top 50 list because of their stats and stories told by other players. But the game was different. The focus was different. Imagine any of them playing selfish and really trying to set records and pad their stats.
WFR & WNC are the reasons Elgin Baylor won no rings or mvps! If there were no wilt or Russell; we’d be arguing who was the greatest between Oscar & Elgin!
Old enough to get into Cobo Hall in Detroit to watch piston games for 2 buck nose bleed seats. Worked our way down in second half to better seats. Got to see the Oscar R, J. West, Kareem, Thurmond, Baylor, Bob Love, D, Debusher, Havlechek, Russell, etc. Question? Should there be 2 record books, one when traveling was called and today where traveling is seldom called? Wilt would have eaten up the hoop if allowed to Euro step.
My 93 year old mother, in Texas, will absolutely throw hands with anyone that does not say Kareem is the best ever. That woman lives and breathes basketball. She loves all Sports, but basketball is her fave. She said Kobe was her #2 .
Young fans and much of the younger media seem to assume that newer is better, when it comes to rating players. With the insane money players make today, they can train with experts twelve months a year, so of course they have some advantage over players who often had to have an off season job outside of their sport. The only fair way to compare players of different times is to evaluate how good they were against their peers in their time.
Wilt could block Kareem's sky hook. Not every time, of course, or even a large percentage of the time. But he did block twice in the same possession one time.
Heck if I played in league now I’d score 10 a game with all the traveling. I’m 69 years old. The on dude from Denver and one from Milwaukee could play in the 60’s and 70’s. I turn the game off after MJ because the insane salaries that the fans and fans alone pay for. I realize that only a few can play, so in a population of 350m there a few hundred players….but we pay the bills in all sports. And for a fool to deny an autograph , shhhheeeee!
Elgin Baylor has to be the most under rated player of all time. You almost never hear about him. As much as Wilt and Kareem are disrespected in GOAT talks, EB isn't even mentioned in the all time greats talks.
Baylor is dismissed because he did not get a ring. One of the TRUE GREATS the game has ever seen. Baylor and West were one of the most athletic duos in NBA history and that is a fact, not an opinion.
Oscar and Elgin are 2 of the all time greats, a shame they don't get the recognition they deserve, MJ this, LeBron that, LeBron will never be the goat, the bottom line is this, Goats aren't 4-6 IN THE FINALS, Look up Wilt's records, they will never be broken, He is the real goat
In 1980, Magic played center for an injured Jabber in an NBA championship game against the Sixers'. Scored 42 points with 15 rebounds and seven assists. I think he would have found a way to win more than one ring without Jabber. But you're entitled to your opinion.
Just so you all know, I have another UA-cam page called Michael Jordan fans are the worst sports fans of all time. You can find the link to the page in the description section. Please subscribe to the page then.
I like that 'title' , i say that about mik fans ALL THE TIME ! ... They are Delusional & Ir-rational about ANY other player , BUT mik 🤷♂️??? ... lt's like Basketball NEVER existed Before or Since 'mik' ??? ... l tell them ALL , that they're STUCK , 'INSULATED' & Living inside some Quarter-Century's Old Antique 90's TIME-WARP ... & AFRAID to come out & Recognize this is a NEW DAY & ERA , PERIOD ! ...
You might like my second page, the link is in the description section, I hope you subscribe to it then. @@onlytruth777
The dude with the MJ page is a real piece of work. Classic d***head. js lol
You did exactly what I predicted that you would do. And you don't even realize what you did then.........anyway......I didn't read what you wrote. I don't get into online typing wars with any of you zombie Michael Jordan fans. Now, listen to me carefully. If you have a problem with something, then go on my podcast and show me what your problem is. Stop being so scared. Go on my podcast and prove me wrong on what ever you disagree on. Prove to me that any of the ridiculous things you write are true. Prove to me that you know more than me about the NBA. But you won't go on my podcast and do any of these things. You know why? Because you're scared. And you know why you're scared? Because you know that you have no proof on any of these things. You know that you will lose, and make a fool of yourself, and embarrass yourself, and get owned then. I mean, if you really believed in your head then that you were right on what ever you disagree on, you would go on my podcast and prove it. If you really believed in your head that everything you wrote is true, you would go on my podcast and prove it. I mean think about this genius. If you really believed in your head that your right on what ever you disagree on, and everything you wrote is true, you would want to go on and show people that you are going to prove me wrong, and make a fool out of me, and expose me, and embarrase me. But you are purposley not going on and it's because you know that you have no proof of these things. You know that if you go on you are going to lose, you are going to make a fool of yourself, you are going to embarrass yourself, and you are going to get owned. The reason you want to type online is becuase you feel like it's easier to make yourself feel like your winning. And because you feel more comfortable typing online. Anyone can type online. Anyone can act like they are on top when they type online. Anyone can act like an online tough guy. And anyone can act like they are an online smart guy. But prove the things you write. Back up the things you write. And even if you want to type online, you didn't prove how I was wrong in anything that you disagree on. And when it comes to what ever you disagree on, you didn't prove how anything you wrote is true. So you lost. So stop acting like your winning.............now..............I want you to think about what you typed..........You were rude. You were insulting. You were disrespectful. And you were overall negative. You also guessed things, assumed things, lied, and wrote mis-leading things. You also contradicted yourself, cherry picked things, moved the goal post, and acted like a hypocrite. You also wrote things that were not factual, not logical, not reasonable, and showed that you are not going by common sense. You had no reason to do these things. But you did it. Think about that. And now ask yourself why did you do all of these things? Well I will not list all of the reasons. I will list most of them. And there is no particular order to the reasons. You love Michael Jordan, you are influenced by the media about him, you haven't done enough research about the NBA, your not that smart then, you got annoyed, triggered, frustrated, angry, you know you have no facts to prove me wrong in anything, you know you have no logic that shows how anything I write is questionable, you know you have nothing to show that I contradicted myself in anything, you know you have nothing that will show that I don't know enough about the NBA, you don't want to admit that anything I wrote is true, you don't want to admit that your wrong in anything, you have a pride issue, and you are so desperate to type something to make yourself feel like you won. So these are most of the reasons that you wrote the silly and negative things that you wrote. So think about what that makes you. That means you are strange, ridiculous, emotional, weird, you have nothing better to do, you got issues, your bored, and you are immature............Also.............when it comes to every silly and negative thing you wrote, there is an answer for each thing. I can show you how all your silly and negative takes are questionable. But you don't want to know how they are questionable then............anyway..........I want you to think about a few more things then. You come to my page. You come to my page because you love it. None of the silly or negative things you wrote about me are true. All the silly and negative things you wrote about me you could have written about yourself. You wrote things that only a Michael Jordan fan would write then. No one will agree with you on anything that you wrote except Michael Jordan fans. You are a typical Michael Jordan fan. And you are an example of why Michael Jordan fans are the worst sports fans of all time...............ok.......now.......I predict that you will ignore most of my points, you will not go on my podcast, you will act like you did nothing wrong, and you will keep typing the same kind of things that you already typed.
Hey Mr. MJ page. Let's have at it here. I fear no man! Lolol
Oscar Robertson was a great player in that he could do it all - Oscar could shoot, pass, and rebound at a high level and was the original Mr Triple Double.
Oscar is so right about Elgin. I grew up in New England watching the Russell led Celtics. And Baylor was one of the best players of that generation. Always have thought of him as one of a handful of those players that could play today.
Elgin Baylor was a great player, not just a good one. If Elgin were playing today, he would perform quite well because he was so fundamentally sound.
Mr. Robertson - great player and a class act.
The Big O. If you know his game, big O is all you have to say. Legend.
No doubt about it.
DAMN RIGHT!!
I had the great honor of covering for TV Oscar Robertson's induction into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame in 1980. Jerry West was also inducted that day. Both were great players and great ambassadors of the game!
Baylor never gets the respect or accolades he deserves.
@michaelarmenta8289 - You are so right! Neither he nor Connie Hawkins (who was THE original Dr. J) ever received the credit or accolades they truly deserved .
Only because the emphasis is put on rings, and Elgin technically did not win one with his team. Those of us who saw him play every night KNOW how great a player he was.
Thanks for posting this. The Big O was one of the greatest.
Elgin had a 71 point game with no 3 point line…..
I was born in LA/1950, watched Elgin live a number of times & on TV a lot. He is my all time favorite basketball player.
@@lionheartmerrill1069 - My favorite too. One of the most inspirational ad campaigns of that era was Carnation Evaporated Milk's, it showed Elgin Baylor hanging in the air under the caption: "Elgin Baylor was a Carnation baby and look at him now!" The guy inspired me to get a college basketball scholarship and set me on the road to success!
@@lionheartmerrill1069 pistol Pete had 68 against all defense Walt Frazier and the very strong Knicks
@@AnthonyRobinson-dc3pq Yes Sir, Pete could fill it up. As you know he averaged 44 a game in college. He is 1 of the all time greats. He wanted to be remembered as a Christian, I would like the same for me.
@@lionheartmerrill1069 may God bless you both
OSCAR ROBERTSON IS THE BEST PERIMETER PLAYER IN NBA 🏀 HISTORY .. HE'S #4 ON MY ALL-TIME LIST .. AFTER BILL RUSSELL .. WILT CHAMBERLAIN .. AND KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR ..
No he's not, and stop yelling.
@@gregshirley-jeffersonboule6258 What? You arrogant ass. You are going to tell @charlesjohnson5 who should be on his personal list.
No one will ever forget The Big O, specially if you lived in Wisconsin.
You think Indiana will forget him?
Or Ohio?
@@bricefleckenstein9666 they people in Ohio are mostly dead. Think about it before replying.
@@Cryptoman_5000 Nah, Oscar graduated High School in 1956 (Crispus Attucks in Indianapolis) - plenty of folks still alive that are old enough to remember him.
I do grant that that generation is starting to die off in significant numbers.
My Mom would probably remember him - she graduated from Lawrence (also Indianapolis) a year or two before that, and should remember him leading his school to back-to-back Championships AND the first unbeaten Indiana HS championship - though she's NOT in Ohio and never lived there.
Love To Hear Oscar Speak Of Elgin Baylor ...............
The most underappreciated NBA player is Walt Frazier. He could do it all with finesse and great floor leadership.
Another GREAT video Sir! I love these interviews with the legends of the NBA. I justcwish the videos were longer. I can listen to these legends like the BIG O, JERRY WEST and WILT for hours on end. You have a GREAT page Mr Universe Galaxy!
I wonder what the players from back in the day could do if they were allowed to palm the ball, double dribble and travel.
Yeah...Elgin said that exactly several years ago when he was on his book tour a couple years before he died. He said it with a grin and an "oh well" kinda vibe. He understood how the games rules are called.
Look up carrying in the rule book...it is constant in todays game. Even in Jordan's era they called it much more.
It is weird when the refs actually call it!
That's the thing about comparing eras; the game today bears little resemblance to the one played in the 60's and 70's. Could the '72 Lakers beat the great Warrior teams of recent years? Depends on what rules you're playing under. You transport the '72 team to current day and they'd have a tough time. Now make the Warriors play under '72 rules. Those 3's that Curry, Klay and Durant pour in at 40%? Yeah they're just long twos and bad shots. So all those high weaves and pick and rolls are useless, because the sagging man to man defense isn't coming out more than 17-18 feet to contest, The Euro step? Sorry, traveling. Most of the crossovers? Palming. Flopping on contact? Mendy Rudolph and Richie Powers would laugh at you. Pulling the center away from the hoop? No requirement back in the day so when you take it to the basket the most athletic seven footer in history is waiting for you.
Well said. I remember "no layups" before that silly little semi-circle around the basket. And calling offensive fouls. But you're right- different game today- but I still watch- just the highlights though.@@steveswanson4496
I think a lot of this crap started back in the 90s after Bird and Magic left and MJ was on his way out . The NBA under Stern constantly marketed itself not as a team league but a “ superstar that happens to play for this team “ league . So they had to come up with little things to help create “ superstars.” So they let Shaq CHARGE that big @&& into people so he would not have to develop a mid-range game and so he could appear “ unstoppable .” No way Shaq would’ve gotten away with what he got away with in the 60s. They started letting people overtly palm the bal - and I use the word “ overtly” on purpose because they don’t even bother trying to hide it today. I took a ref class and reffed a few games decades ago . I know that palming can be discreet . These guys today don’t even bother . Palming the ball enables the dribbler to look that much more evasive , that much more like “ superstar” with “ super capabilities. And the euro step thing ? Hell, 30 years ago if we had seen that the whole d*mn coliseum would be laughing at what an obvious TRAVEL it is .
Players today are great . I think , by and large , the average player is better than players 30-40 years ago BUT BUT BUT the NBA , since it’s whole marketing is to make individual players look “ super” , they do everything possible to make them appear so, including letting them palm and walk and let the big men they want to promote charge .
@@steveswanson4496 I don't care what era of NBA basketball it is, nobody, nobody is beating the 86 Celtics
Thank you for a video on one of the truly class acts the NBA has ever produced- Oscar Robertson.
He's right: Elgin Baylor is largely forgotten today, and it's an effin' shame that he is. One of the greatest basketball quotes I've ever read concerned Elgin: "He doesn't ignore the Law of Gravity, but he's awfully slow in obeying it."
You might like my second page the link is in the description section.
The Big O- no one was better!
Always had mad respect for this man.Wonder what he thought about Rick Barry.
Didn't have a good opinion of Barry as a person but highly respected him as a player.
@@oldude979Pretty much no one respected or, to this day, respects Barry as a person, but anyone who saw him play respected his game.
@@oldude979Oscar and Rick rubbed some people the wrong way. As did Kobe. But no one can be faulted for their desire, passion and competitiveness. And talent.
@@Amick44 Rick, (3 time All American) was sanctioned by NCAA (before he played a game) resulting in Miami being banned from NCAA tournament for 3yrs. Won NBA rookie of yea & scoring title. Jumped to ABA (for money). Jumped back to NBA (for money), won title with Golden State. Man after my own heart, always went for the gold
@@oldude979when money was a factor, it was also an opportunity for him to play for his father-in-law Bruce Hale,as his coach in Oakland. Once the team move to Washington the next season he was unhappy there. But the following season they traded him to the New York Nets. Rick liked playing in New York and did not want to leave. But a court order stated that once his original ABA contract expired he had to return to the Warriors.
Basketball equipment has not really changed. But the rule enforcement has. Back in the old days you could not palm or travel. Put these modern players back with old school refs....they wouldn't be able to get a shot off. lol Doesn't mean they aren't good/great with today's rules, but fingertips on top of the ball or it's palming. That's it. Whistle blows. Turnover. Now.....now watch Baylor, Jerry West, Big O, Cousy, et. al. The best of their time are the best in the game throughout time, imo.
Oscar was on point back in the day😊. I liked his comments about Kareem👍. I agree, Elgin should have gotten more recognition.
I watched a lot of Oscar Robertson back in the 1960s, and he earned the nickname: "The BIG-O"! He is one of the greatest players I have ever seen! I'm so glad he finally got to win a title with the Bucks at the end of his career. The Cincinnati Royals just couldn't get over the hump even with Oscar on their team. As a fan of the Celtics since 1960, I saw a lot of Elgin Baylor in our battles with the Lakers. Elgin was a superstar, and one of the greatest all-round players the NBA has ever had.
I would start a team with Russell, then the Big O.
And I always give your videos a like. Every one of your videos gets a like from me
A lot of the past greats have been forgotten or overlooked and underrated.
Baylor is in the argument for GOAT. He completely transformed the game. So did unsung Bob Petit.
Yes indeed Billy Cunningham
Thought Petit was great player but I just remember he and other teammates not standing up to the racist faction (led by Cliff Hagen) on the Hawks that refused to play with black players the Hawks drafted. Since Hagen was a star the Hawks traded away rookies Willie Nauls to the Knicks (went on to be 5 time all star) after 19 games & Ken McBride (scored 30 & 20 pts his first 2 games) after only 12 games. Wish Petit could have mirrored Pee Wee Reese standing up for Jackie Robinson
@@oldude979 Ok. So Petit was a racist ah. So was Ty Cobb. Wuzzat got to do with their talent? Lol
@@lance6112 Damn, you missed my point altogether. I didn't say he was a racist. I said I remember him not standing up for what's right. As a 10 year old that's what I remember. And it has nothing to do with talent.
@@lance6112 Yo, lets drop it ok?
I never saw Elgin play in person but from what I did see on tv I am certain that his game would hold up very well in today’s NBA. As for Oscar, I did see him on a number of occasions in person when the Royals came to play the Knicks in the mid to late 60’s. No doubt in my mind that he would be top tier star in today’s game. The game is different now, but super athletes like Baylor and Robertson definitely had the skills that would let them thrive in any era.
I not only saw him play I actually met him at a basketball camp.
Today's basketball fans are clueless
The big O!
New Subscriber!
Great video.
Nicely Done.
Thank you. You might like my second pag as well. The link is in the description section then.
The only player to ever average a triple double. Incredible!
@jimowens381 One of 2, but he was the first.
@@2H2521 Thanks for the correction. Who was the other?
@@jimowens381 Westbrook
@@jimowens381Russell westbrook
He averaged a triple double for a season. Nuff said
Elgin invented a lot of the amazing moves the top players use today. He was the first player with enough hang time to elevate with the ball, then decide what to do with it. Although known as a scorer he was one of the best defenders ever. At 6'5 he could guard any forward in the league, including those who were a half foot taller.
Its hard to compare eras but I think he was like the Kawhi Leonard of his era. A bit shorter with a shorter wingspan but physically strong, tough, fast and gifted.
@@robertzimmer8311 I agree the comparison of Elgin with Kawhi is a good one. They like to play inside but also have excellent outside shots. Elgin may have been the first player known especially for his leaping ability -- Kawhi jumps well but he often executes his inside fakes on the ground. Both players were totally dedicated to winning and had to be guarded for every second on the floor.
Oscar played with his back to the basket like a big man!
Victor Wembanyama of the Spurs reminds me a lot of a young Lou 'Kareem Abdul-Jabbar' Alcindor. I remember when Kareem was playing in college and then his rookie season in the NBA. Two great rookie talents, Abdul-Jabbar and Wembanyama.
Elgin Baylor was the forerunner of Dr. J. Baylor had more moves than Doc and Michael. Better shooter than Doc, and more moves off the dribble than Doc or Michael. If you disagree with my option then you never saw him play. Career stats: 27 points; 14 reb; 5 ast. At age 27 he had his best season 38 points & 19 rebounds per game. REMEMBER this man was only 6 feet 5 inches tall. One reason he is forgotten by this generation is he never won a title. Couldn't beat the Bill Russell Celtics in 7 finals. Since fans today think greatness only comes if you win a championship, no one but us old timers know the truth.
Actually Elgin was forerunner to Connie Hawkins who was forerunner to Doc
You're preaching to the choir, I saw Baylor play in college at Seattle. And Russell play at USF
lol before i clicked on the video, i read the title and said out loud "Baylor"
and i was righttttt i feel so smartttttt
Bob Petitt
The BIG O! Hometown hero. R.I.P to George BIG MAC McGinnis another hometown hero who passed away a month ago.
Clyde Frazier was great. Anyone remember Hal Greer of the 76ers? He's on the 75th anniversary list. Unsung but a phenomenal PG.
I remember Hal. Great PG.
I had the good fortune to be studying engineering at the University of Cincinnati when Oscar Robertson was playing for the Bearcats. I also so Russell, Kareem, Wilt, etc., during my lifetime. What I best remember about The Big O is that, in a close game with maybe five minutes or so left, he could simply take over the game. Everybody knew exactly what he was doing, and nobody could stop him. Also, remember that in his era, referees actually called palming and traveling; in today's basketball that's almost never called. The only other player I saw could take over a game when it was obvious that he intended to do so was Larry Bird.
Those of us who saw Elgin play every night KNOW how great a player he was. As well, he seemed to always be a gentleman.
Was a big Laker back in the day. But it used to tick me off that they never televised Royals games in my area. Hardly ever got to see him play.
Oscar Robertson had class. I did not hear him talk negatively about anyone. The great ones do not need to berate other players, which he shares with Larry Bird and Ervin Johnson.
He did talk negatively about Maravich when he became men's college scoring leader.
Saw Elgin and Oscar ( Cincinaty Royals) play against each other Oscar had a eye-guard on and scored 40 at the Long Beach S-ports Area, in the 60's.
The debate in Oscar’s era was who was the best around player in the league at that time. Wilt wasn’t in the conversation, because he was a big man, who was from entirely different planet. Never has been anything like him, and never will be.
It always came down to Elgin or Oscar. You could make a case for either. I’m 81, so I saw both of them in their prime, head to head.
Oscar wasn’t flashy, but he could do everything, and do it great. Great shooter, excellent passer, saw the whole floor, outstanding rebounding guard. Averaged a triple double one year, and probably could have done it often if he cared about. Had a basketball IQ was off the charts. Saw the game like Magic, just not as flashy.Made everybody on his team better. Good defensively as well. To this day, I’d have a hard time choosing between Magic and Oscar as the top point guard I’ve ever seen.
Elgin was one of a kind. Can’t begin to describe his all around ability. Incredible moves around the basket, played the basketball or his back to it. Best passing,and ball handling forward the league had ever seen. Way ahead of his his time. Until Elgin, no NBA forward had taken the ball the ball off the boards, brought it up against guards, and either took it all the way found an open man, or passed his teammate open. The guy was only
6’5. Very strong, exceptionally strong hands. Pound for pound, one the greatest rebounding forwards in the history of the league. At 6’5, he averaged as high as 19 bounds the same year he averaged 38ppg, and 5 assists. Always one of the top rebounders in the league, despite the size differential.
Good shooter, unbelievable driver. No one has ever seen his arsenal of moves. Even more unstoppable than
Oscar. Other than Wilt, he was the most unstoppable player in the league. There was nothing you do with him. Tom Sanders, of the Celtic, the top defensive forward in the game, said it was like nailing jello to a wall. The Celtics, with Russell talking care of the lane, Sanders, and
K C Jones, the best defensive guard in the league, used to triple team him. Didn’t matter. He once scored 61 points in a playoff game against them. As an aside, with the possible exception of Moses Malone, a 6’10 center, he was best offensive rebounder I’ve ever seen. The only
6’5 forward I’d put in his category as a rebounder, offensive or defensive, would be Charles Barkley.
The only problem Elgin had was health. He really only had 3 or 4 healthy years. His knees gave out 2 or 3 times. The Lakers didn’t know if he’d ever walk again, let alone play. Playing on one leg for the larger balance of his career, he played, comparatively, at All Star level, averaging between 25 to 27 ppg, but he was never the same.
He was the Doctor J and Jordan of his time. The Lakers had a hell of a team in those years, but they had to go against the Celtics with Russell, of all people, with NO center whatsoever. If they had
any kind of decent center. just someone like a Bellamy or a Zelma Beatty, my guess is they would have won at least one championship, maybe more. They had West. Baylor, Lararusso, and Dick Barnett , but that was it. The Celtics not only had depth. They had quality depth, which is probably an understatement. And still, the Lakers took them to the end of their rope . Those matchups were classic.
Who was the better all around player, Baylor or Oscar? It was pretty much up in the air then, and it still is. You couldn’t go wrong with either.
Finally, a legend talking about the greatness of another legend. Elgin Baylor is without a doubt the most underrated player of all time. And , you know what? Oscar Robertson is probably the second most underrated. They both could do everything well. Pure greatness.
There are TONS of old NBA stars the media overlooks. Including Oscar. Didn’t he average a triple double one year or something like that? I saw him at the old Chicago Stadium in the ‘70’s more than once when he was with the Bucks and Kareem.
They don't talk about players from the 70 on down or the ABA Stars
He averaged a triple double for several years if you put them all together.
he is so right about everything. Elgin is the great overlooked one. But the all time top 10 is getting crowded. Elgin is probably somewhere between 11 and 14
Elgin Baylor did what worked at the time. Very efficient. No one would call him a high flyer today. But he was smart and could adjust and would still be an NBA star today. Kyrie Irving is the Elgin Baylor today, hanging in the air, adjusting his shot, keeping it from being blocked. Elgin would have to up his game for today but I'm sure he could.
He tells it better than anyone.
I am an old fart and the same could be said about Larry as they all say he couldn't jump and was slow but his fundamental's where sound and he had incredible basket ball IQ.
I watched Oscar from HS to the pros and he is the true GOAT!
Respect to The Big O and Kareem. Hang on one second though ....the media forgets Kareem? LMFAO.
Magic and Kareem reset professional basketball. All the greats that came before them are nearly ignored. Few sports writers today actually saw how great, Oscar, Wilt, Bill Russel, George Gervin, Jerry West, Bob Cousy and Elgin Baylor were. Some give lip service and maybe saw Dr. Jay and Moses at the ends of their careers, but they really don't know or understand how great they were. Those legends of the old days only make top 50 list because of their stats and stories told by other players. But the game was different. The focus was different. Imagine any of them playing selfish and really trying to set records and pad their stats.
Dr jay was bad
Indianapolis Indiana great " The Big O "
WFR & WNC are the reasons Elgin Baylor won no rings or mvps!
If there were no wilt or Russell; we’d be arguing who was the greatest between Oscar & Elgin!
Old enough to get into Cobo Hall in Detroit to watch piston games for 2 buck nose bleed seats. Worked our way down in second half to better seats. Got to see the Oscar R, J. West, Kareem, Thurmond, Baylor, Bob Love, D, Debusher, Havlechek, Russell, etc. Question? Should there be 2 record books, one when traveling was called and today where traveling is seldom called? Wilt would have eaten up the hoop if allowed to Euro step.
My 93 year old mother, in Texas, will absolutely throw hands with anyone that does not say Kareem is the best ever. That woman lives and breathes basketball. She loves all
Sports, but basketball is her fave. She said Kobe was her #2 .
Young fans and much of the younger media seem to assume that newer is better, when it comes to rating players. With the insane money players make today, they can train with experts twelve months a year, so of course they have some advantage over players who often had to have an off season job outside of their sport. The only fair way to compare players of different times is to evaluate how good they were against their peers in their time.
Wilt could block Kareem's sky hook. Not every time, of course, or even a large percentage of the time. But he did block twice in the same possession one time.
Heck if I played in league now I’d score 10 a game with all the traveling.
I’m 69 years old.
The on dude from Denver and one from Milwaukee could play in the 60’s and 70’s. I turn the game off after MJ because the insane salaries that the fans and fans alone pay for.
I realize that only a few can play, so in a population of 350m there a few hundred players….but we pay the bills in all sports. And for a fool to deny an autograph , shhhheeeee!
Well will stop the hook 3 times in a raw kareem was stuned
Elgin Baylor has to be the most under rated player of all time. You almost never hear about him.
As much as Wilt and Kareem are disrespected in GOAT talks, EB isn't even mentioned in the all time greats talks.
You can’t have a Mount Rushmore without Oscar Robertson on it. Somebody’s going to have to be left off but it’s not going to be Oscar Robertson.
Not just Elgin...bob petit also.
I will take Oscar over Jordan any day of the week.
If you think Jordan is the you have no idea what basketball is all about
They never seen Oscar Chamberlain hal Greer Billy Cunningham John havcheck Earl the pearl Monroe Walt Frazier Willis Reed or ABA players
Is that Chris Weber with the Big O?????
Baylor is dismissed because he did not get a ring. One of the TRUE GREATS the game has ever seen. Baylor and West were one of the most athletic duos in NBA history and that is a fact, not an opinion.
Rings - ua-cam.com/video/lYTtyKLhT0w/v-deo.html
FIRST there was Elgin , then Connie Hawkins, Dr J and then Michael jordan
Imagine all shots
Meant 2 points sky hook 4 Julius Erving in your face dunks 5 points
PEDS PEDS PEDS PEDS. ..chemistry is in pro sports today 😅
If Elgin Baylor played in today's NBA he would easily average 40+ points per game.
Webber is a better announcer than the guys on TNT.
Shaq is a character. Not an annoucer\journalist
Baylor never won a Most Valuable Player award. I think he's better remembered than Elvin Hayes, though. At least he played for the Lakers.
And not winning an award means nothing then.
Nobody plays DEFENSE anymore in the nba today. Let me score from the logo…matador defense…ole
Oscar and Elgin are 2 of the all time greats, a shame they don't get the recognition they deserve, MJ this, LeBron that, LeBron will never be the goat, the bottom line is this, Goats aren't 4-6 IN THE FINALS, Look up Wilt's records, they will never be broken, He is the real goat
Wilt Chamberlain was a better player than all of them.
KAREEM DUNKED ON THE MIGHTY WES UNSELD LIKE HE WAs a lil toddler.
Without Karem, Magic prolly wins 1 ring.
In 1980, Magic played center for an injured Jabber in an NBA championship game against the Sixers'. Scored 42 points with 15 rebounds and seven assists. I think he would have found a way to win more than one ring without Jabber. But you're entitled to your opinion.
Elgin Baylor was Michael Jordan before Michael Jordan was
Saw Elgin and Oscar ( Cincinaty Royals) play against each other Oscar had a eye-guard on and scored 40 at the Long Beach S-ports Area, in the 60's.
What is a eye guard
You can see them on players today so they don't get poked in the eye and they can affect your vision.
Kareem wore goggles
James worthy wore goggles