How to clean gummy haze from vintage Nitro guitar finish
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- I use Ronsonol or generic naptha to clean and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and Polish to clear the haze from old nitrocellulose lacquer finishes. Those products and a soft cotton cloth are all you need. A buffing wheel or drill buffing attachment will make this process go faster of course. Careful with a buffing wheel though, nitro can heat up and melt easily, a drill attachment is safer and easier to work with.
As has been pointed out to me numerous times, fender used poly finishes in the 70’s, and as was just pointed out by another knowledgeable user, they would sometimes put nitro over poly in the CBS era. Good to know. That said, This guitar definitely seems to be refinished at home with nitrocellulose, as there is paint in the neck pocket, among other inconsistencies. Whatever the actual origin, the gummed up finish guarantees it’s nitro. Polyester and polyethylene finishes do not gum up, and are easy to clean with almost any solvent, including acetone, and can be shined with non abrasive polishes (if it isn’t physically scratched). Nitrocellulose is dissolved by acetone, and requires physically smoothing the gummed up surface with abrasive compounds, it will not shine up otherwise.
I've been a luthier for about a decade and have come across this problem so many times with vintage Les Pauls. This method is fantastic. Thank you.
I like how you say there’s another video on cleaning guitars but there’s not. Good one. Got me
Fender dipped the bodies on a type of poly in the late 60s and 70s. They sprayed nitro over that. It helped to save cost and kept the color from soaking into the wood
that's good to know!
I've a '76 Mustang Sunburst that did the same thing. I'm the second owner and got it back in '92. I really don't think it was ever varnished by the previous owner as it wasn't monkeyed with much. Car polish did do the trick to fix the gummy, sticky issues.
Case closed, Fender obviously used nitro in the 70’s, seems like it was a colored nitro top coat on top of a poly clear coat (you can see a clear layer under the black layer on my guitar). Nitro clouds up, poly doesn’t. I assumed my guitar was refinished due to the shoddy overall look, paint in the neck pocket etc, but that just might have been Fender in the 70’s, probably had barrels of nitro to get rid of as things were moving to poly so they used it to nail polish their guitars.
@@NickWeissMusic I agree completely as my guitar has severe wear where my picking/strumming arm rests. The black is now all gone, but it's still shiny there with a coating of something clear. That always baffled me how the colour was gone but a shiny coat remained. Your explanation seems spot on. Tip: When cleaning a Fender Mustang, wipe off the dirt but never the grunge. ;)
Great vid, thanx for posting.
Thanks for the tips. I'm trying to find cheap buffing and polishing compound for drill pads.
Thanks for your video. Very helpful. I’m looking for a way to clean up my mid 70’s P-Bass and this is great.
As an aside, I refinished a friend’s Tele back in the late 70’s. After stripping off the color, I think it was white, there was a thick clear layer under the color. If I remember correctly, it was quite thick, like 1/16-1/8 inch. I thought it was some kind of plastic. I think I had to chip as much off with a chisel and sand the rest. It had a nice Ash body that I sprayed nitro on. That was the finish of choice in small manufacturers and I made guitars and parts in the family’s custom furniture shop.
The guitar went on to do wonderful things. Mike Stern borrowed it from my friend and used it when he played with Miles Davis along with Marcus Miller in NYC at a Broadway theater converted to a rock venue during the early 80’s ?
7 decades on the planet does take it’s toll so don’t hold me to anything stated here because my life often feels like a dream.
Yes, this guitar seems to have that hard plastic clear layer, very strange, just haven’t done much work on 70’s fenders but another commenter mentioned a poly seal coat and nitro finish in that era, seems to be what we’re seeing. Hey man, having anything you worked on touched by Mike Stern is a cool story, even if it didn’t happen ;-)
I agree. Marcus Miller bought an all rosewood pbass neck from me from that meeting onstage during Myles’ sound check. Myles ignored me and had his back to me most of the time. I felt honored, as that’s how he played in front of the audience as well. Hahaha
@@KharmaBodiesGuitars not exactly a warm and fuzzy guy by many accounts ;)
Gummy haze, all n my brain. Lately things just don't seem the same. 😎
I used a car polish last time in a very beautiful Heritage Gibsin. Couldn't clean it otherwise. Hope it stays nice now. :D
Par excellence!
Meguiar's is the way to go. I tried to clean my Goldtop with metholated spirits and it went cloudy. Meguires fixed it.
Would this work on my 79 les Paul deluxe??
Any recommendations for a guitar that still has a weird haze from permanent marker? So I just got my dream guitar for a discount because some idiot wrote all over it with permanent marker. I got all the marker off, however when the light hits the guitar you can still see the outline of the marker? I've been trying to find a way to remove this without damaging the finish or paint on the body. Any suggestions? Would this method work?
Teej Rakes sorry I didn’t see this sooner! First thing to try would be naphtha, and try several rounds of it with a soft cloth. If it’s still stained into the finish, then yes, some rubbing compound and polish can remove the upper layers of finish to hopefully fix it. If it leached all the way through the finish, as could possibly happen with alcohol art markers or something solvent based, you’d have no recourse but a complete refinish, or just deal with a little discoloration. If it’s your dream guitar it could be worth a professional refinish, you can also look at UA-cam and stewmac videos on how to do it yourself at home. Moreso than any other step of luthiery, finishing requires PATIENCE. Use very light coats. Do not skimp on drying time or sanding/polishing between steps. I personally hate having to look at something sitting there, it’s torture waiting days, sometimes weeks for finishes to dry in my humid climate :)
Would this work for a semi-hollow that has a cloudy film from playing an outdoor gig and having my arm that had suntan lotion on it resting on the side?
Good question. That could be a wax buildup, so likely just a wax removing product could help. I use ronsonol or naphtha since it’s safe for pretty much all guitar finishes. Rubbing alcohol works too but only use it if you’re SURE it’s a poly finish and not nitro. You’ll want to polish the whole guitar after that to even it out because de-waxing leaves the surface looking like a desert, whatever polish you normally use (I use ghs guitar gloss on everything except matte finishes). Come to think of it, Guitar Gloss is also a good cleaner, that might fix the problem without any other de-waxing.
If it’s a stain that has actually gotten into the finish, yes, hopefully the techniques and products in this video can remove that very top layer of finish along with the stain.
Most compounds and polishes contain some amount of silicone which is supposed to react with the nitro finish of the guitar and make it sticky forever. Are these meguiar products silicone free or does it not matter?
I’m in the “it doesn’t matter” camp. Silicone doesn’t break nitro down and leave it sticky, it does however create fisheye if you try to spray nitro over it. It repels wet nitro, but has no effect on properly applied dry nitro. I have read that Meguiars does have trace amounts of silicone, as do most modern polishes, so use with that in mind. I only use it for the process in this video, my every day polish is ghs guitar gloss, which is silicone free to my knowledge.
By the way, silicone is so ubiquitous, that most refinishers would assume a little would get on a used guitar somehow, and would use fisheye eliminator on any refinish. Fisheye eliminator is in fact just silicone, and once you’ve used it on a guitar, all subsequent coats of finish need to have it too. This is nothing new to experienced refinishers. I’ve actually never done a complete refinish myself, I just let the dings ride lol, but I use fingerease and plenty of other products that likely contain silicone, so I’d personally use fisheye eliminator on any respray job.
@@NickWeissMusic I have since come to the same conclusion - despite serious attempts searching I haven't come across a single reference to silicone reacting with nitro lacquer.
What happens if naptha gets on the pickguard? Are there any parts of a guitar that should not come into contact with naptha?
It's harmless to most plastics, but if you're at all concerned about the cosmetics of the piece of plastic purposely placed on the guitar to take abuse, definitely take it off and test the bottom ;)
I accidentally got nailpolish on my es 335 with nitro finish; would that Ronsonal stuff get that off??
Sorry to say but that’s a bad situation. Nail polish IS nitro, and will fuse with the existing finish. I’d bring that to a pro.
I have a Gibson Les Paul faded and the back of the neck is a bit sticky, not smooth, can I do the same to it as you are doing?
Ramon Willemsen it will probably work. But if it were me, I'd use 0000 steel wool, or 8000 grit sandpaper and gently smooth the gumminess off. The gummy layers of Nitrocellulose need to be physically removed somehow, and using steel wool or sandpaper will remove it and leave the neck slightly scuffed, but smooth feeling and easy to play. I find glossy finishes to be too sticky to play comfortably. Some people actually sand through the entire finish, I don't find that necessary, but if you do it enough times, you will indeed sand through it. This could of course affect the look of the neck if it is painted or stained. I don't really care on my instruments that I intend to play and keep, if you're looking for highest resale value, then the compound/polish method should work, but I make NO PROMISE TO THAT EFFECT.
On my Gibsons I use Naphta first & then Gibsons restorative cream. Never use Naphta on bare wood
very nice toturial ! I have same problem on my gibson les paul ( gloss finish ) can I use another brand of lighter fluid like Zippo ?
Good question, I haven’t tried. I’m no chemist but I know the main ingredient of Ronsonol used to be naphtha, I think their formula has since changed, regardless, it still works without damage. Ronsonol is sold as an alternative to zippo fuel, I imagine the formulas must be pretty similar, my guess is it’ll work fine, no guarantee of course lol.
@@NickWeissMusic TnQ for Guide.
I just got a Highway 1 with thin Nitro finish which I accidentally chipped a small paint using my nails when I was cleaning the pickguard =( any advice to take care of Nitro guitars to avoid any paint chips? This is my 1st Nitro guitar
Nitro is indeed thin, and doesn’t create a “shell” like poly does. There’s not much you can do to prevent wear and tear scars other than not scuff the surface to begin with, but that’s part of the nitro charm. A good finish shouldn’t chip from your fingernails, so there was either already a chip started and you just helped the process along, or it’s a bad finish job/material. Unfortunately fender isn’t known for the finest workmanship, even on $1000+ USA made instruments, so that’s always going to be suspect. If it was a pristine finish that you literally scraped up with a fingernail, that’s a factory defect, there’s no way you could do that with a properly applied, undamaged finish, even nitro.
That said, dings and scratches can happen to any instrument that’s actually used, maybe that’s a spot that normally gets scraped by your pick, and it was just a matter of time before it uncovered the wood below. If there are a lot of scuffs on the pick guard and finish in that spot, that could be it. I have an Ibanez with some kind of faux-wood satin finish over lighter colored wood that’s worn through from playing. I just call it a tone hole and go about my life ;) .
I have a 1970's Fender bass that used to be a light creamy yellow color. It's real gunky and has taken on a mustard yellow color. A friend had borrowed it for several years and it was exposed to cigarette smoke. I noticed I can scrape a lot of the gunk off with a fingernail. I'd love to get it back to that real pale yellow color. I'm going to try this technique, but if anybody has any other suggestions, please let me know
Did you try it yet? I can tell you the method I used before I started using automotive products was GHS Guitar gloss and elbow grease, a whole lot of elbow grease.
lemon oil
I have a 67' Strat, and it needs (probably its first cleaning since 70") a good cleaning. Would this method be considered for me?
Rod Pyle it should work fine. Note that these are abrasive polishes, so work lightly, and try a little spot on the back to make sure you’re not damaging anything. It could literally take hours to get the gumminess and smoke off of something that old, and it can be frustrating as you start pushing the gunk and cleaning material around on the larger portions of the guitar, it will feel like 2 steps forward one step back for a while :) use plenty of clean cloths and keep cleaning excess off with naphtha periodically. On an instrument worth many thousands of dollars like yours may be, it’s up to you, if you are patient and have good attention to detail, it can be a very rewarding experience. I don’t treat instruments as museum pieces myself, and if your guitar has its share of dings and scratches as most used instruments would, there’s not much damage you can do that would harm the value of the instrument, As long as you are patient and careful. Do beware that these compounds will scuff plastics and chrome, so if you are concerned, put masking tape over or remove any parts you are worried about damaging. The guitar in this video is kind of a junker, so I didn’t bother, and it looks great.
Thanks Nick, and you hit the nail on the head. This guitar purchased new (67') by a close relative. He played it a lot, then less and less, until it stayed in the case mostly. It's in great shape, but has gummy feel in lower horn area, and a small chemical like burn in the clear, maybe from a rag with something on it left laying on it that the clear reacted to? Thanks again for the advise, and your video.
@@rodsdaytona I have a 67 strat too ^^ olympic white, so great. The fine gummy haze, at my opinion make a vintage style and I like that satine look. I think light cleaning is ok, but not polishing.. So just be very carreful using polish. Even a guy from dunlop says to not use polih (here : www.tdpri.com/threads/dunlop-65-and-nitro.239466/ ) saying this :
"Thanks for the email. Yes, there are trace amounts of silicone, silicone poses no threat to the finish unless you have a nitro-cellulose or vintage instrument. Formula 65 polish is generally OK for a nitro finish. I would not use it if there are cracks, checking, or dings in the finish. I also would not use it if it is an old and thin finish. No matter who the manufacturer is of the polish, rubbing anything on a thin and old nitro finish with a liquid and a cloth can take off color---I've seen it first hand. To be honest, on my vintage guitars, I do not use any polish. Sorry if this is confusing, but I'm being totally honest. Please let me know if you have any further questions."
Read this carrefully : reverb.com/news/cleaning-your-guitar-without-doing-damage
Do you finaly use a polish, what's your opinion ?
@@myspaceLOFI there are lots of opinions out there, And I don’t see anything completely factually wrong in that article, if not a little sensational, but it’s all about context. If you decide to use an “aggressive car polish“ on a $180,000 guitar, well… I got nothin’ there, that’s truly something special.
At any rate, I certainly hope anyone with a 5 figure or higher guitar isn’t looking for DIY refinishing advice solely from a guy working in his back yard on UA-cam. Keep in mind this is also just a one time, or at worst very occasional, spot treatment, I am in no way advocating using abrasive polishes for every day use.
As for the silicone thing, again, it’s a context issue. First of all, this would be very mild exposure, secondly, if you were gonna refinish it anyway, why would you bother doing this process? All sources agree, silicone does nothing to already-cured nitro.
Roger Sadowsky’s opinion is basically, silicone contamination is a given in any old instrument and any pro refinisher is going to deal with fisheye anyway, therefore these polishes that contain trace amounts of silicone are not an issue (his own polish contains silicone).
While there are situations in which I’d recommend remaining “silicone free,” especially if you build new instruments, it just doesn’t seem to be the monster it’s made out to be for most situations.
1976 Tele Custom does not come with nitrocellulose lacquer finish, to my knowledge.
I'm sure it was a refinish. When did they go to poly finish?
how do you get the celulose nice again when you cleened of stickers with alcohole buy misstake?
Gitarr Nisse pretty much the same process as above. If it’s really bad, you may need to wet sand with some fine grit sandpaper to get it smooth again, but rubbing compound and a lot of work should get it done. Alcohol isn’t usually as bad as acetone, so good luck!
Btw, naphtha, Ronsonol, or citrus degreaser all work to get stickers off without damaging nitro, for those who are looking for the best solution.
@@NickWeissMusic Ok, thanks, i have now polished the headstock 6 times and a 4 layers of wax and it is much better :)
It also look like the refinsher tried to 'relic' the guitar by sanding down the left edge.
Haha, could be, it is weird that there's color OVER the clear... no telling when it was done, certainly seems at least a couple decades since there was so much haze built up.
Ordered a nitro sunburst body but it was shipped before fully dry and it has marking of the surrounding foam now on it, can these products buff that out?
ARRGH! I hope so, but this can be a LOT of work, hopefully it just stuck to a very thin layer of foam. maybe try a non-abrasive cleaner like GHS guitar gloss first (I don't work for them lol, I just like that stuff) and see if it's just on the surface. That's a big time builder fail IMO, if possible I'd send it back for a refinish. Unless you were rushing the builder to ship it, that is ;) .
Nick Weiss I got it at a discount was only 80 bucks or I could send it back. I might try that guitar nomad pro polish stuff for nitro or that GHS u mentioned! Thnx
Mike Jamieson it’s probably a polyurethane finish , which is a lot harder than nitrocellulose, so it’s hard to say if anything will work, but hey, even if it doesn’t, then it’s just a custom finish :) good luck!
black or any color on top of the clear? never heard of that method before?? Ya the yellow could be tar from cigs.
it's very weird, I agree, but there is a worn down spot where you can clearly see the black finish fade to clear, then down the bare wood. I assume they used some tinted nitro to do it, Stewmac sells rattle cans of it. It's a mystery why there would be clear layers below, but it's obviously a home refinish so no way to find out :)
They actually do use clear coat as sealer in which the lacquer is painted over
Most compound and polishes contain some silicone which is supposedly going to make the nitro finish gummy forever. Do the products used her not contain silicone or does it not matter?
Hi Nick! I just got a tele from 98' in midnight wine, do you happen to know the finish on that? Poly or nitro? I also have some hazy gunk on the bottom near the jack that a damp rag didn't get rid of. Thank you!
Dylan Thomas interesting, most guitars in that era would be poly. Some brands would use nitro for a vintage look and feel, and that’s around when Fender relic guitars were introduced, so there’s a slim possibility that nitro was used, but I’d say it’s doubtful unless there was a home refinish. Are you sure the hazy parts are not just abrasion from a cable or strap? That’s different than the haze that nitro develops, but would essentially be remedied the same way, with rubbing compounds and polish. Poly is a lot harder than nitro though, so hand buffing could be ridiculously time consuming. A drill attachment buffer can be your friend in these cases. First try ronsonol or other naphtha product to try to remove any sticker gunk or whatever the heck could be on there, and maybe use a magnifier to see if it’s actually just fine scratches. My main fingerpicking guitar has a poly finish and what looks like haze on the front of it, but it’s from years of fingernail abrasions.
@@NickWeissMusic Thanks for getting back! They definitely are sticky and have like a hazzy/gummy feel to them both near the jack and now on top side as well. So using ronsonol or naptha on poly is ok to use? I could just try that and if it doesn't work, get back to ya. Thank you again!
Dylan Thomas yes, naphtha will clean any guitar finish with no problems. If you want to check for sure, you could dab a little acetone (nail polish remover) on a non-important part of the finish and see if it dissolves or swirls, like under a pick guard, edge if control cavity, etc. to be clear, naphtha is fine for all finishes, acetone will dissolve nitro.
@@NickWeissMusic Excellent, thanks Nick, I'll get back to you on this!
'98 Midnight Wine is Poly. I have a '99 in that color.
That there is a poly finish not nitro. They sprayed color over clear sanding sealer in that era
Phillip Austin *sigh* poly doesn’t gum up. Nitro does.
Nick Weiss sounds right. I’m sure you are correct since I wasn’t even there. Looks good
So many internet-know-it-alls in the comments. Fender sealed the body wood with poly, yes. BUT on top of that they put nitro. The back of the neck and the fretboard was poly only in CBS era. It's dumb but thats how they did it and still do sometimes.
HerrSeelenflug and that would explain the weird color layering too, good info. I still think it’s a refinish as the finish is pretty uneven overall, but ultimately the origin doesn’t matter, since I know how to clean it regardless, lol.
@@NickWeissMusic Finishes from CBS period can look really sloppy. Especially if the guitar has been through a lot. Right now I'm restoring a CBS Strat once again and was pretty sure it was a refinish because of strange marks and the kinda cheap looking sunburst gradient... Turned out to be original once I buffed out all the gunk. It began to look pretty again once the light could reach the wood instead of being distorted by all the built up mud in the finish. If you wanna be sure check the neck pocket. The factory stickers and stamps schould be on top of the paint, not under it.
@@HerrSeelenflug good stuff! as it turns out I have no strings on this one at the moment, so I took the neck off... and it looks like a home refin. There is black paint in the pocket, with a bare spot where it would have been held by a clamp. The finish under the back plate is wonky too. It is funny that people don't simply mask the pocket off completely before they spray, but it has helped with the forensics here ;) .
7:00 that's funny...
How do you even know that it’s nitro? I think it’s poly.
David Lindsley this is definitely a nitro home refinish, i believe they were poly from the factory. Poly doesn’t gum up, the only thing you need for poly is GHS guitar gloss, at worst citrus degreaser for nasty old stickers.
It's totally save, so why is it called fuel...
That is NOT nitro if it's a 76 fender.
Dude. It’s not nitrocellulose in 76’. All polyester through 70’s
Scot Alexander ok, but it’ had obviously been refinished with nitro before I bought it.
I've been dealing with that hazy nitro finish on all my Gibson vintage guitars and basses for 20 years and I see you're using Meguiars products that contain silicone, that"s a big no no
Well, you're not entirely wrong, but perhaps being too dogmatic about guitars. "Big no-no" is definitely overstating the issue. Silicone can be detrimental to nitro, but only if you're trying to spray nitro on top of it, as silicone will block nitro from adhering. Other than that, it doesn't matter. Anyone who's used Tone Fingerease on their guitars for the past several decades has exposed their instrument to silicone. If you're going to be spraying more nitro on your guitar, you'd be sanding and stripping any other chemicals to begin with, so it's really a non-issue. Besides, I'm not using these products as every day cleaners, just once for the de-hazing process, which lasts at least a decade in my experience. Once I'm done and get a nice shine, I use GHS guitar gloss on all my guitars, poly or nitro, for regular cleaning and polishing, and have never had to redo the dehaze process on any of my nitro guitars.
People can get really fussy with "the rules of guitars," but in reality, they're just pieces of wood with pretty-looking chemicals on them. If you're worried about any product damaging your guitar, of course, test it first, but these products work great for their intended purpose.
@@NickWeissMusic Not exactly, silicone will contaminate the entire guitar and will cause problems if the instrument has to be repaired (cracked neck for example) and obviously refinished. Overall silicone is bad and just causes problems from cosmetic to structural.
GiuseppeM again, not exactly wrong, but an overstatement in my 30 years of experience. Ive heard all the rumors, but I’ve never seen any evidence of structural damage from silicone, and I’ve also seen fisheye happen when finishing pieces straight from a factory. At worst, you’ll be dealing with fisheye, and any number of other contaminants can cause that too. Fried chicken grease from 1987 in one of the cracks on this guitar could make for finishing problems too lol. I think any pro refinisher intent on respraying nitro after a repair, would thoroughly clean with a prep product, and add a few drops of fisheye eliminator, especially on a well-worn vintage instrument. Keep in mind, the products in this video are pre-wax compounds, so not sure if they contain silicone anyway.