How Correct Tongue Posture Affects Singing: Singing with Tongue Tie, Correct Tongue Position

[@Wyzz222]

This is great stuff, thanks!

[@iSarita_yt]

What if you struggle to breath when you correct your tongue posture

[@OpusMyo]

Hi Sarah. It could be a few things; one of the most common is lack of space for the tongue to rest, so it is pressed backwards and into the airway. If you would like to find out more, I suggest finding an "airway focused" orthodontist near you who can perform a thorough exam and treatment plan (and a CBCT / cone beam xray if possible)

[@greenfrog6449]

Fascinating! I had a feeling good resting tongue posture would help a voice, as every is already up. And many elite singers have very attractive, well-developed faces. No coincidence there.

[@OpusMyo]

YES! And they all have great cheek bones...which is the maxilla...right where that tongue posture sits...another NOT coincidence!

[@greenfrog6449]

@@OpusMyo please, can you make a video for those of us who had poor tongue posture as children with funky swallow patterns, and then had crowded teeth and extractions and now lack space for all the tongue, with recessed maxilla too - how can we help ourselves?

[@RememberGodHolyBible]

The tongue muſt really be free to fourme each vowel with the tip retracted and down, and the tongue wide on euery vowel (not bunched in on the ſides). This helpeth to keep a low larynx which is neceſſary. Hauing a high tongue will make thee ſing with a high larynx which equaleth limited ſpace in the vocal track which equaleth ſmall voice. The tongue is attached to the larynx. Contrary to what people think, when the tongue tip retracteth it openeth the thꝛoat. This is why on a natural yawn the tongue tip retracteth and is down.

[@OpusMyo]

Lifting the back of the tongue doesn't change the laryngeal position. The genioglossus muscle STRETCHES the tongue upwards, enabling the larynx to maintain its original position. The only time this is not possible is when singers are 1. tongue tied and/or 2. actively engaging other, malicious laryngeal-attachment muscles in some way. I do however agree with you that some singers must let the tip come backwards slightly if needed so that the pharynx and sp can lift and 'float' more, however, the back of the tongue should be floating up, not pressing down. The tongue's natural position is already slightly lifted, so by lowering it we actually changing its more restful position and adding tension and also depressing the larynx.

[@RememberGodHolyBible]

@@OpusMyo At leaſt in operatic ſinging the larynx muſt be an a very much lowered poſition, maintaining its oꝛiginal poſition is not enough. Keeping the tongue vp and foꝛward will make lowering the larynx difficult. When one yawneth the tongue retracteth, this is becauſe the retracting tongue openeth the thꝛoat. The tip of the tongue and the back of the tongue are antagoniſtic, ſo when the tip retracteth it tendeth to pull in the back of the tongue, opening the thꝛoat. As long as the vowel is clear the tongue will not be blocking the back of the thꝛoat at all; this is actually the moſt open thꝛoat poſition.
Mario DelMonaco, Bꝛigit Nielsen, Franz Wnderlicht, Enrico Caruſo, Apoolo Ganfoꝛte, Renata Tebaldi, Roſa Ponſelle, all theſe legendary ſingers of the paſt, and many, many moꝛe, all retracted the tongue in their ſinging. Thou canſt ſee it in pictures of them and in ſtills taken from videos where thou canſt heare their tone on ſaid notes. The had free, loud, extremely rich in ouertone voices, and very dark open ſound; and all with great releaſe of the aire. A retracted tongue is not iuſt foꝛ ſome ſingers. If one deſireth to haue the pharyngeal ſpace maximized, the way to make the moſt ſpace and that without conſtrictiue tenſioins is when the tongue tip retracteth (front third of the tongue), which in turn pulleth the back third of the tongue out of the thꝛoat, while the middle third is free to create the vowel at any giuen time.

[@OpusMyo]

@@RememberGodHolyBible Well we will have to agree to disagree on this. Retracting the tongue downwards depresses the larynx. I know all the great opera singers (including the ones you mentioned) specifically warned against depressing the larynx as it not only adds tension and false dark color, but widens the vibrato and can add false vibrato as well. Simulating a yawn is dangerous territory- as the chords are open, the body is inhaling, the pharynx is tightening/engaged, and the jaw is tight. All not good things- regardless of what the tongue is doing.
I suggest you watch Pavarotti's high C- here- you can see him physically lift and change the shape of his tongue even though the vowel and word stays the same: ua-cam.com/video/cWc7vYjgnTs/v-deo.htmlsi=nBpDMaUz0ZxvNhYX

[@RememberGodHolyBible]

​@@OpusMyo In regardeth to Pavarotti changing his tongue with the vowles, of courſe that is needed. The tongue is the moſt influential ſhaper of any and all vowels.
But euerything elſe thou haſt ſaide is incoꝛrect. Depꝛeſſing the larynx is to incoꝛrectly lower the larynx that reſulteth in a woofy oꝛ choked ſound. Mario DelMonaco had his tongue retracted with the tip down. The back third of the tongue needeth to go down the thꝛoat WITHOVT cloſing it off which IS poſſible and neceſſary. The tongue retracting away from the front teeth alſo pulleth the back of the tongue foꝛward leauing the thꝛoat in the moſt open poſition The middle third of the tongue maketh the vowels and that can go vp and down depending on the vowel. The iaw can vary, but generally a dꝛopped and low iaw is good and many times neceſſary.
Not only is there ample video pꝛoof of this with pꝛofeſſional ſingers better than Pavarotti, but my voice is alſo a teſtimonie. I lower my larynx all the way, ALL the way down, tongue tip retracted with the tip pointed down, lips foꝛward, cheſt voice thꝛough an open thꝛoat. And by this I go to my top very eaſily, with no wobble, with maſſiue amounts of ſquillo, no tongue obſtructing the aire, huge releaſe of the aire, very loud with very ſoft dynamics poſſible, ſuper clear vowels, and very dark at the ſame time becauſe of the maſſiue ſpace created via the very low larynx, retracted tongue, iaw down lips foꝛward, with cheſt voice ſung thꝛough that ſpace from the bottom to the top of my range.
Euen if thou art not into ſinging operatically, the retracted tongue is eſſential if one deſireth maximum reſonance. One can get by without a retracted tongue, but it is obiectiuely leſſe efficient.
Look vp the video title below on the channel "This is opera! ARCHIVE"
"TONGUE RETRACTION, LIPS FORWARD, VIBRATO PULSATIONS etc."
It ſheweth theſe things quite concluſiuely and alſo ſheweth what kind of ſound it pꝛoduceth.

[@user-sg5cr6ru5q]

Thnks

[@taborgreat]

a low and forward tongue, espeically if it has tendency to rest against teeth, often times is caused by a head that is too far forward, and not anything to do with weakness, but actually over compensation due to a weak/tight mandible and lack of neural feedback to keep your spine aligned from hips to head.
check out PRI institutes work for more.

[@OpusMyo]

Yes, that can be a factor! (PRI is wonderful, I have worked with many of their instructors personally :) ) Tongue ties can also be another facet of this same issue, as the tissue completely prevents the tongue from being in any other position. However there are many sleep apneacs and even some kiddos who have great mobility but poor muscle tone. People can have both! Mike Cantrell (PRI) and Dr. Elizabeth Caughy DDS (local colleagues of mine) are currently researching this exact thing!

[@taborgreat]

@@OpusMyo very interesting. Since the tongue is basically dominating the mandible, I could see how a tongue tie would lead to jaw problems which would affect the whole skeleton above and below. Also affect the ears, eyes, and breathing, which would disturb the neural system even more leading to more dysfunction and possibly directional dominance leaning either forward, back, or to one side. I’m about an hour away from self administering my own tongue tie cut as an experiment 😅

[@taborgreat]

and dont worry that is just a joke at the end. I arleady destroyed my tongue tie as a kid when the ear part of glasses shoved under my tongue and ripped it apart@@OpusMyo

[@OpusMyo]

@@taborgreat Yes! Many of my clients with tongue ties also have ear-draining improvements, headache improvements, and even pelvic floor improvements due to decreased tension in the deep front fascial line. A tongue tie assessment certainly couldn't hurt!!!

[@iinotnadiesszzx0300]

N8ce!

[@adrienmyles1854]

This is all so interesting. I have always known that I’m tongue tied and I am a professional singer for nearly ten years and I have been a performer/vocalist my entire life. I’ve never really had any issues vocally but in the last year, I’m facing vocal cracks frequently. I wonder if a lifetime on tension is wearing on me just now or what. My voice used to be completely fine and I know I hold tension. Idk what I’m getting at but I feel like I’m gagging from my tongue often. Will a op solve my problems?

[@OpusMyo]

Great question! I see this often in my singing clients; as we age, our technique improves, which should mean we have less injuries and more stamina, etc. But (as you said, and you are exactly right) that lifetime of tension finally becomes harder and harder to manage and to 'reset' and dissipate each day (as opposed to when we are young and fresh!) I'd recommend at the very least having a consult and chatting about it! It could be the tension from a lifetime of being tongue tied and/or some compensations- you'd need someone to help you find out if its one or both :)

[@adrianacapella8520]

When making vowels, should the tongue be touching the ridge, or near it? (While singing. Not while resting)

[@alaziaklexos]

Is it normal to experience headache and discomfort in the tongue root when correcting tongue posture?

[@OpusMyo]

Hello! It is COMMON but it is not IDEAL or NORMAL. Sometimes both can occur when we are correcting tongue posture at first (maybe within two weeks) but anything beyond that could point to further potential issues, the most common being: 1. Extremely restricted tongue (especially in the posterior portion) that prevents the tongue from lifting freely and causes pain and/or discomfort 2. lack of adequate space in the upper arch/maxillary area which can cause TMJ pain/discomfort and headaches. In my personal experience, my past clients who had severe headaches etc were also my clients with the most restrictive posterior tongue ties. If you are past two weeks, I highly recommend you seek further guidance from an Orofacial Myologist, Myofunctional Therapist, and/or an airway focused orthodontist or dentist- they should be able to give answers more specific to you! Wishing you well xx.

[@alaziaklexos]

@@OpusMyo thanks for the response. I just started correcting my posture 2 days ago and I noticed the discomfort. Fortunately it doesn't seem like I have a posterior tongue tie, as I can stretch it to the roof of my mouth just fine without any restriction. And I wouldn't say the headache I have is severe but it's just uncomfortable accompanied by some soreness in the tongue root.

[@CODDE117]

What was the exercise that was being attempted in the end of the video? I'd like to know for my own comparison

[@akikoaokimusic]

I agreed! I want to know the exercises

[@WideCuriosity]

IMO pushing your tongue high, and in the same sentence suggesting it's at rest, is a contradiction. I'll go try it anyway.

[@OpusMyo]

The tongue is up because it is under suction- it shouldn't be muscularly held up, otherwise, yes, that would be exhausting!

[@akikoaokimusic]

Can you give us an instructions how to fix these problems?

[@OpusMyo]

I absolutely can!
1. Do a quick self-assessment for tongue tie. measure your mouth openings in the specified positions and compare your singing issues with those stated.
2. If you think you are tongue tied based on your answers from 1 above ^, seek out a formal tongue tie diagnosis from a tongue tie expert such as an airway dentist or myofunctional therapist (preferably one who is familiar/has experience with singers!)
3. If/Once you are formally diagnosed as tongue tied, pursue tongue tie release surgery, making sure you do myo exercises both before and after surgery with a myo expert.
(4. Consult a voice technician who specializes in eliminating compensations if you still have some technique and or singing-muscular issues post release)
5. Live your new life tongue-tension free and with a happy, free, isolated tongue! Yay!

[@azarchalabiani592]

While singing and opening the mouth, should we press the tongue to the top of the mouth? Because in any case there is a gap between them

[@vobavocal]

Well, if you press the tongue to the top of your mouth, you won't be able to speak, cause it can't make the pronunciation. What I do is to feel the sides of the tongue at the upper molar teeth, gently gliding on them. That brings it up, but not in the way of pronunciation.

[@azarchalabiani592]

Does the position of the tongue change when moving from low to high notes?

[@OpusMyo]

Most singing teacher would agree that it should. Within the classical-singing world, my opinion and most teachers agree that the back of the tongue should get higher as the pitch gets higher, but there are some conflicting views.

[@krystynazapolska8541]

Absolute rubbish Why? Correct tongue position is learned as a result of forming vowels in chest voice. A competent teacher of the Italian school can teach this by example.

[@OpusMyo]

Well, obviously I disagree, mostly because there are infinite ways to make any one vowel sound; I can make what sounds like a perfect Italian /a/, but also add additional muscle groups not required, which will lead to tongue tension and strain and overuse. Also, I personally find that teaching by example can be dangerous- many people are physically built differently in their mouths/tongue just as much as we are all different on the outside. People with different rib shapes have slightly different methods of breath inhalation. And what if I, a heavy soprano, taught a light tenor? If I only taught by example of what I do and not what they need, I would not be serving them- in fact, I could damage them unintentionally. Lastly, I am a fan, and indeed, user, of the Italian operatic school, so I don't disagree with any of the ideas, but I find that teaching with all metaphors/visualizations can lead to a LOT of confusion- even amongst singers who already have professional careers- I've personally seen this happen quite a lot. Just my two cents!

[@sengebasar8080]

I bet you with such tongue posture you can't even sing a word.