Also, have to think about the Porsche Taycan the burned down the container ship 🚢 with other Porsche's, Lamborghini's, Aston Martin, & Ferrari's as well as other Exotics. I will never live to stitch in any Electric Vehicle's (EV's) The only Turbo cars, which are any good are Porsche. The Turbos are mounted away from the engine block. Why is this important? The Turbos get up to be 1,875 ° Fahrenheit or 1,020 ° Celcius. OEM manufacturers mounted Turbos next to or on top of the all aluminum engine block. Mounted without a Heat Shield 🛡 or Insulation blanket Which warps and cuts thru cylinder 3 on Ford ( Ecoboost or GM ( EcoTech ) both I call EcoTragic. Tuner's mount them in front of or away from engine. Pully's add extra barriers. You could never see me alive in a Electric Vehicle's (EV's) the following is Why: Hello from Los Angeles California. I lived all my life in Los Angeles California, and in the 1980's the Smog was so thick it filtered the Sun. The smog blocked the Sun so much the winter's in Los Angeles California was so cold between 36° to 55° Fahrenheit nights dropping to 33° Fahrenheit I couldn't see mountain ranges from where I live 4.5 miles away. Unless it was windy and smog cleared. Now the air is so clear you can see cracks and riges, on the rock walls. It uses to rain 🌧 none stop for 7 months, and the summers never exceeded 90° Fahrenheit. Due to Sun being filtered from smog I also didn't need shades, for my eyes. Now 🌡 are 110° Fahrenheit for excess of 1.5 months with 5 days in the roll Temps exceeding 116° and 1 day at 120° to 126° depending on fire conditions radiating heat. Air clean enough, and it will not get any cleaner with only Electric Vehicle's (EV's) Now to the reason why Environmental green agenda causes Drought Conditions. In 2010- 2013 there were Solar Mirror s installed to project solar arrays to a Tower with mirrors projected downward to under ground reservoir water sources. To generate steam, and generate Electricity. The temperatures 🌡 causes the atmosphere to close to 5,000° and every time birds fly thru become instantly baked and fall. In the 1980's the Jetstream used travel across California in to Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and so on to Florida. Due to the Mirrors the Atmospheric High Pressure. Has pushed the Jetstream away from Southern California to North to Washington, and or Canada 🇨🇦 . This cause along with getting rid of Smog cause higher temperatures and Drought Conditions. You couldn't pay me $10,000,000 per hour to sit, promote, sell, let alone buy any Electric Vehicle's (EV's). If you look up StachD Training channel, on his video titled Lithium Largest Ex plo ding EV Recycling ♻️ Center in Missouri. There were 4 Recycling ♻️ Centers in the United States. Now there are 2 Recycling ♻️ Centers, and none are in the State of California. Due to Environmental Impact, which the video shows Fire Authorities spray granulated elements of the Lithium-Ion Batteries 🔋 Packs, into creeks, rivers, and lake anfmd underground well resources. Not even boiling helps, and fish hacmve died in those water ways. Sure clean the Air while you Pollute the water. In April 2024 the 1st Recycling ♻️ Centers in Phoenix Arizona location burned down, and dousing water to keep cool prenting spread of fires 🔥 have caused Drought Conditions. @truebrit3670 Look it up StasheD Training channel Missouri Recycling Center ♻️ Ex Plod ing can't spell this out. Fish died wells for water is no good anymore, and became Acidic These are facts. Mirrors in Mojave Desert Modified where Jetstream away from Southern California. The so called green agenda is to keep there pockets full or bank accounts.
@@mbasir The problem is that the old tech cars are being used to subsidize the R&D costs of EV vehicles. They have to jack up the prices of old tech cars to help float the negative profit margin EVs until the technology is advanced enough to become profitable on its own.
@@mbasir not cheap but it was possible for the middle to upper middle class. Ussally attributed as a car for retiring people. Now those groups cant afford it, with its price hikes and also ofc cost of living.
Within the USA, they can't do that yet. Regulations and a massive lobbyist groups (largest lobbyist group, IIRC) require the dealership middlemen. EVs are exempted from this, if done correctly (hence Tesla, Rivian, etc.). They can get away with this though as they don't have any dealerships to start with. The classic manufacturers can't so easily do this with their EVs. If they try to, they get sued by their dealership partners. Have to kill the regulation. I'm all for it, but that's the hurdle that needs to be overcome.
US dealers mark up is at fault, it is illegal in Europe. We pay MSRP and taxes that's it. But price across the ranges are still getting out of control...inflation be damn
You’re absolutely right! I’ve been a loyal Porsche customer since the 90’s, having bought 12 cars including 3 GT3’s, yet when I’ve tried to get a 992 GT3 over the last 2 years they want $70-100K over MSRP which is a crime. The 2025 model with not only Porsche’s $40K price increase as well as dealer markup and options will be in the mid $300K range, which competes against 2 year old Ferrari F8’s and McLaren 720’s - and that’s ridiculous.
@@993mikeI’m with you - I’ve given up on Porsche. I used Porsche finder and saw nearly ever 911 turbo s and gt3 touring in the USA is used, abused, flipped and marked up $50 to $100k. It’s the Rolex watch business model but more woke…
in europe ? are you american ? because in ''europe'' there are countries that Mark ups do exit, example, Ireland/Lithuania, i am speaking form my own experience
@ well in continental western Europe , I don’t know any country where it’s legal. As far as know not legal in Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, France, Luxembourg. Used to live in Florida and now located in Belgium and working in the BENLUX area.
The real economy sucks in America. Toys like Porsches are getting out of reach for more and more people. Porsche has recently announced they are scaling back EV production and it’s a year too late. EV’s are a joke. They aren’t eco friendly , that’s a scam. They have horrible resale value and are worthless once out of warranty, when the battery needs replacing.
I have a 2008/9 987 Cayman 2.7l base model, manual in Guards Red. But each year I take it to the dealer I feel I am poor as I look at the new models and the prices are ridiculous. In 2008 I could afford a new one, now they are just too expensive, and to think next models are going to be all EV. No way, Im keeping my 987 and naturally aspirated 6 cylinder engine, It sounds the biz. I would certainly NOT buy and electric Cayman, or Macan, just look at the depreciation on the Taycan, over 50%, who would buy a new one?
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You can add in McLaren, and Lamborghini. I have a Miami Blue 991.2 GTS, with CC brakes. To find the same spec in the new 992.2 GTS, my options for the price include those super cars. Hard to spend $200k on a 911. Since I already own one…
EVs are fantastic daily drivers. I don't think they're ready to replace my weekend muscle cars, but I replaced my 3 series with a model 3. Fantastic daily.
We car guys,really true car guys want ice car for daily as work is the most part of life, not like using hot girl occasionally t@@thedumbconspirator4956
@@Broken_But_Not_Brokeit’s the same argument against manual transmission cars, auto is superior in every measurable metric, bit you can’t replace the experience of driving a manual that some folks desire. I’m in a similar boat, it will take a lot to get me to switch to ev, but I’m not as staunchly opposed as the commenter. It’s a maybe for me, but with my work travel taking me out of town, I’m not willing to jump onboard anytime soon. Maybe as a third family car, but not today.
@evo9lution Yeah, in all the wrong places. The publicity and hype for synthetic fuel is dreadful. Almost nobody I mention it to knows what I'm talking about, and they all seriously believe EV's are the future.
They need to produce products people want. And I think a lot of people don't want electric cars. I am very disappointed in them making all the 718's electric. I love my Boxster.
Porsche dealer quoted me $499 for 2 hood strut clips. Which I found a universal one on amazon for $20 a pair and replaced it myself less than 2 min, since the original part was clip on. I was afraid they might charge me for breathing air in their dealer. Never again.
I’m 56 years old. I grew up dreaming of having a 911. In March of 2022 I felt I was finally able to “afford” fulfilling that dream. As someone who had never purchased a Porsche from a dealership I was a nobody, so I put a deposit down on a Carrera 2 S, a fairly low trim. I waited 20 months for an allocation. Once I had that, between holiday months, micro chip problems and building and shipping I waited 6 more months to take delivery. Yep, just over 26 months for a standard(ish) 911 with a manual transmission. That’s a long time! To my dealership’s credit I was not asked to buy any other models first, add any certain options to my build, buy a watch or pay above MSRP. That being said, in the two model years I waited, the base price of my car went up over $14K. The happy ending is that I absolutely LOVE my car. However, the experience of getting that car wasn’t so great. Too bad I didn’t grow up wanting a Corvette because I would’ve saved half of my money and gotten a faster car (and still been able to have a stick).
When you get tired of Porsches BS try the corvette Z06. It’s a great car for $140,000 700 horsepower. I’ve driven 911s for 20 years and I’m done. I just bought my first Lamborghini. I won’t go back to Porsche .
I think I’d love a Corvette! The C8’s are the real deal. A true mid engine beast. And I only live about an hour and a half from where they’re built. For now though, I’m having a great time with the Carrera. Congratulations on your Lamborghini! Now that’s an exotic! Bravo!
I worked for a Porsche dealership my last year of high school and first year of college, and while a lot of Porsche dealerships are like that, ours wasn't. Obviously for a limited-production Ferrari/McLaren/Lamborghini/etc, you need some sort of brand history because there a lot of people that want these cars, and it goes to their best customers. I.E. Ferrari with the 812 Competizone, Lamborghini with the Sterrato and first deliveries of the Ruvuelto, McLaren with their LT series cars like the 765lt. We never charged over MSRP for any car that we sold that was a "regular car", so any Porsche that was not a limited production car. We got in a Sport Classic and that had a premium because we only received 1. There were a lot of people in the surrounding area that wanted one, but couldn't get one because we only received one, so people are willing to pay more. Especially when people have a LOT of money. I don't think it is the right thing to do as a dealership, but that is how a lot of these dealerships make money since the profit on most new cars isn't as much as you think. We got in a bunch of new GT3's, and majority went to new customers and a few went to previous customers. Each dealership does it differently at the end of the day, but Porsche does know this and they are trying to make it harder for dealerships and owners that will instantly flip the car. They saw the success of the 911R back when it came out (they didn't think it would be that big of a success), and they wanted to capitalize on it. For the new 992.1 S/T, you can only lease it through Porsche for the first year, then after that year is done, then you can purchase it. A few people have gotten around this, but they won't be getting any more cars in the future from Porsche and will be blacklisted. A guy local to me in Indiana was a big Porsche buyer, and he got black listed and can no longer purchase a new Porsche. The new Porsche 911 prices is also something that people are going crazy about, but it's the inflation. If you do that math and factor in inflation for a 2014 GT3, the new 2024 GT3 is only a few thousand dollars more expensive. Everything has gotten more expensive and that is the way of the world now.
Porsche doesn’t care - they love spectators. For example there’s not one new 911 turbo s in dealer inventory in the whole of the USA. Every one for sale is flipped and marked up massively over original MSRP.
I'd buy in as a second car, or a plug-in hybrid. A buddy of mine just got one and hasn't bought gas in months. Charging at home is cheap. I would never want to take one on a longer trip, though.
@@Broken_But_Not_Broke EV's have plenty of problems. They are not the silver bullet anyone might claim them to be. They just have a different list of pros and cons. Do you really think the cost of electricity will stay the same if/when every car on the road is forced to move to EVs? Of course not. Supply and demand. The advantages they have right now will not last forever, and the drawbacks EV's already have will start rearing their ugly faces more and more. Yes, the people who think EV's the devil are silly, but so are the EV drivers who think they're saving the world by buying a product a few years before everyone else. The product might change, but our problems of doing anything at scale will not.
Yes because their prices have skyrocketed!!! I have owned 4 Porsches in the last 20 years, my last one was a beautiful 2016 Cayman GTS! I ended up selling it a couple of years ago, at the time it cost me $105,000 which was insane at the time. Today that car is in the mid $150,000’s and if you want the GT4 you are looking at $170,000. BUT even if you wanted to buy one, you couldn’t find one!! I have been priced out of the market because I’m not going to pay $150,000 for the same car! It’s just RIDICULOUS!! 😮
I have the same problem with watches. I used to collect Rolex, but it got increasingly harder to buy one, up until the point I just didn’t care anymore and sold off most of the collection. Same is happening with these brands. People don’t care anymore.
The fact that Boxster/Cayman prices have skyrocketed over the past 15yrs and are now 6 figure cars... Porsche is literally breaking hearts. And bank accounts... And us Porsche fans/owners and even the perspective Porsche buyers are being "forced" into the arms of other brands.
I think Porsche has taken it's customer for granted. I don't like being forced into going electric. I have test driven the new electric it does not make me want to change over from the Macan that I have.. I'm not a fan. I have a Boxster GTS my second one and I'm not a fan of having to go electric on it either. I think hybrids would be a good option to get your feet wet. The infrastructure across the board is not good enough for me to be forced into electrification. Porsche prices are getting extremely ridiculous and for the first time is making me look at two things. One a different brand and to holding on to what I have. A base Porsche Carrera 150k plus. Ridiculous. My dream of being able to not only reach Porsche but to stick and stay with Porsche is fading.
Very underrated aspect of owning EV is that it lacks status. If i buy AMG with V8 or Porsche with V6, i know i have something that normal guy in VW or Toyota can't have. But EV's are all kind of same. Yes, more powerful, but lacks status and desirability. That torque punch will entertain you for how long? First few days (like when you bought really fast car fist time)? On top of that, EVs are soulles as they simply lack one whole aspect of interesting car, which is obviously sound. Can i see models like Cayenne or Even Macan be fully electric? Ye. I would not buy them, as they are same things as in other EVs just with name porsche and premium price, therefore incredible depreciation, but they can be. Going Cayman and in fact any true "sports car" Porsche EV is nuts. People won't buy them. Look at Tyacans.
To buy an EV is like buying a quartz watch... The status lays in the craftsmanship of the mechanical works of the watch/engine! But all enthusiast chooses mechanics befor batteries!
Bought my first and only Porsche when I was in my mid-twenties back in the 70's. It was affordable as a new vehicle and I enjoyed driving it, but I was disappointed with the build quality and after a couple of years I sold it and used the cash as a down payment for my first house purchase. While I would still like to own one there's no way I'd pay what they're going for nowadays. I've got a red 1950 MGTD as my fun car and couldn't be happier.
Porsche like other vehicles have gone up in price. Seven years ago a base Carrera started under $100k and now it is $120k and change. The push to electrify has also limited certain models like the Carrera S, which is currently not available on the Porsche car configurator.
But Ferrari, Lamborghini etc. treating their customers the same way. Limiting the number of cars and forcing you to buy other products to get one of the limited ones. Porsche is just trying to copy them.
Maybe Ferrari, Lamborghini doesn’t do the exclusivity for cars. Some exceptions could be made with chosen customers when 20 units are built with well over M$1.5 price set. Whereas Porsche set a price from their manufacture, then get double or even triple the price.
As a proud 911 owner, I will never buy any EV. I only rode in one once that was an Uber to me their garbage. The only place there is there’s a big market for them is in China and their EV have been bursting into flames, burning up, garages and setting other cars on fire, EV are not selling the way they thought they were. I think it was just a trend and people are over it. I drove by Carmax recently. The lot is full of EV‘s that no one wants they don’t have a good resalevalue they are worthless. and they are quite a few insurance companies that will not even insure them one minor accident and they totaled the car out because the batteries are unstable and may explode in anytime.
I just went thru the biggest service debacle of my life, servicing my Cayenne at an authorized Porsche dealer. They had my Cayenne for two months to do a one day servce. The poor service advisor confided that his mechanics had quit, for a list of reasons, and that he had a long row of used and near new Porsches that had been sitting for weeks, while the dealer desperately tried to find replacement qualified mechanics. Ultimately two very young guys with very limited experience eventually made the repairs to my vehicle. The dealer did not have fluid in stock to change the oil in my transfer case, and could not complete the short list of maintenance items I had requested. When I finally was able to retrieve it, it had a check engine light and several other minor defects, that were not present when I brought the vehicle to them. They had also bungled a door adjustment, and air was coming in the drivers window on the way home. I will be selling three Porsches I have, as my dealer service options are limited, where I live, and I see this dealer heading to closure at the rate they are going.
Unintended consequences. Originally, the Porsche brand appealed to enthusiast drivers almost 100%. Though “underpowered” it flourished with those who valued design ethos over big horsepower and big everything else. They were selling 175 HP 911s when Corvette did not offer anything less than 300HP. As the market grew, they were the Davids to the Goliaths of those eras: Doing more with less power and less weight. While pricey compared to mass-produced cars, they enjoyed a significant price advantage over their euro competition. The 911 was in a category of one, and one could say that to a significant share of the market, a new 911 was in the same category as a new Ferrari or Lambo. Flip wipe to the present: cheap, huge horsepower is readily available, and the 911 has become a porky twin turbo borderline supercar with a price to match. No longer unique (despite what the brand managers imagine), it is now part of a general pool of expensive performance cars. Market share erosion. What to do? Well, lots of people want SUVs (for whatever reason), so let's offer one or two. And BTW, it will be cheap because we've got all these Audis ready to be rebranded. (be sure to emphasize exclusive Porsche design chassis tuning to the journos, right?) Well, it worked big time, immensely profitable. Flexing the Porsche badge in the pick-up line at school just got real, yo. Only one problem, you are now in a market with a dozen competitors, and many of the customers are not Porsche “until the wheels fall off;”they are just as likely to lease a Lexus, MB, or BMW for their next bus-on-wheels. Welcome to the general marketplace. Need to make an EV? Enthusiasts will buy an EV. Some of the "I put a Capristo on it as soon as I bought it" crowd (Or, "I just Sawzalled off everything back of the cats!") aren't going to come around for a while, sure, But meanwhile, Tacan! Four-door, Porsche branded high-performance EV! We'll have the market to ourselves! Except for the Tesla S and 3 Performance, any Lucid, MB's, BMW, (not to mention the BYD 150K super car) and oh yeah, I can buy the same thing in an Audi at a big discount. Holy competition Batman! Porsche is in a paradox. On the one hand, they are now selling general market cars without any real advantages (other than the badge) yet at premium prices. The 911 and its endless variants are now in overload; great cars that are now priced at nearly entry-level prices of Ferrari and Lambo, Aston, etc. The Porsche value proposition has completely disappeared. It is not easy to back off the high of success (that option list is a virtual goldmine). But this is a perfect example of the unintended consequences of transitioning from an enthusiast's beloved niche brand to just another car company. I'm not sure how you come back from this addiction; things probably could have been different if Porsche had succeeded in buying VW, not the other way around, etc. Or not. But really, this is an industry-wide problem. I hope "our" little car company weathers the storm. (In full disclosure, I have owned many Porsches, but currently (and until my wheels fall off), I own 2, the youngest being over 50 years old. Your mileage may vary.)
Prices are higher, but the real problem for many is wage stagnation. That aside, I must be cheap. With a high 8 figure net worth I cannot justify buying a new 911 Turbo. I'm looking for a 997.2 Turbo or Turbo S manual.
Handling. Interior, exterior, steering feel, suspension, should I continue? Have 911 turbo s, tesla model Y performance, and Ford F150 lightning. Will upgrade to Cyberbeast in 2 years and thinking about Porsche tycan turbo s. Tested one at infinion raceway in Sonoma loved it. Not ready to get rid of 911.
Im not really sure where this is coming from. My local porsche dealer is literally sold out of any 911 .. there is a long waiting list. Meanwhile on the used market porsche holds their value like no other car. I think its mainly the shortages i guess.
Costs have killed the car-guy-culture. Me, personally, I don't want any of the crap beyond analogue speedo, thacho, oil and water temperature gauges, A/C and perhaps a clock and radio. Get rid of the electric doors, windows, shock absorbers,... Minimize the inclusion of Tech. And get the cars back under 2,500 pounds--I remember when sports cars weighed 1600 pounds not 3600 pounds.
You know you messed up somewhere when people are turning to the red stallion for an "affordable business model" instead of paying your prices😂 I'm a big Porsche fan, but the dealerships are really making it hard for us.
I've been a lifelong Porsche fan but after getting a simple Tesla Model 3 I dont think about them anymore. I wouldnt even trade what I have for one because I have great torque and the only costly part of ownership is burning through tires which shows I do use it. I know a lot of loyalists will hate this comment and I never thought I would change camps but I did. And I dont regret it.
I can afford and would love to acquire a Porsche Macan/Cayenne.But the dealer fees and extras are obnoxiously stupid.An EV Porsche is not a "Porsche". The day I would finance an EV is when the price drops below $40K w/the performance and range figs of AT LEAST a Tesla Y/X/S/3 Performance.
Buy a classic Porsche air cooled. They tend to hold their values. Generally new Porsches depreciate save 2021 bat auction exuberance If you are shocked at Porsche prices. You should continue investing , be patient. Once you achieve a high net worth you don’t care what things costs. Porsche wants that client.
I live in a fairly affluent area and my neighbors have all traded their Porsche, Benz, and BMW's for Lexus' and Toyota's. I am so glad, because Porsche and BMW alike are charging unethical prices for these cars and the cost of maintenance is ridiculous and it's great to see their sales plummet. I was once in the market for a 911 S, but at $120K base plus options/tax would probably take me to $160,000+. NO THANK YOU. You can have your euro-trash performance car.
Porsche is the Rolex of the car world. They make good products, but they're hype brands, many people buy them because other people say it's good. They used to be rare but now they're everywhere. The owners think they're driving the best machine in the world.
I can live with the prices...they're a sign of the times. What drives me crazy are the Dealer markups and the fact that Porsche lets them do it. Needs to stop for the regular lineup.
When they are owned by a much bigger car company that owns a bunch of other car companies, i think that helps on years when there is a down turn in sales. I love Porsche myself but i could never afford a new one, the people that can have so many other options for less money, I think it's a good thing they are owned by VW.
Now that was fun, sharing the times before Porsche offered only sports cars, no SUV’s! The ev’s across the board? NO. In fact, if a totally stripped down 911 manual was available, anyone else in? Let’s go!
What I don't understand is that purist complained when Porsche started selling SUV's, but the reason is because of sales. Like do purist want a company to just die off or release a profitable model to fund the sports car? I find it selfish to complain and bash the company that is trying to save themselves
Thought I wanted a 718 Cayman recently but found for a new one with a few options they get over $90k for a base model. Value is just not there. 718 GTS 4.0 around $130k.
Most Porsche sports cars are around for many decades. They are “special” cars for the owner, and are maintained and cherished - even as a daily driver. With an ICE power plant, multi-decade ownership is a realistic goal. With an EV, multi-decade ownership becomes economically unfeasible since the cost to replace the EV battery is prohibitively expensive. While EV’s have many practical attributes, they are disposable cars. And disposable cars don’t appeal to drivers who want a car they can cherish. The brain can like an EV, but the heart can never love it.
Let’s just say that wages are not keeping with the rise in prices of vehicles. All manufacturers have increased prices dramatically. Then dealers try to tack on crap to the sticker
I bought an Audi A3 etron, because it’s an EV for 90% of my driving, but when I need to travel a longer distance, the turbo 4-banger does the trick. Then when I wanna rip around like an asshole, Dynamic Mode does the trick… that said, if the opportunity to get into a 996 or 997 targa 4 pops up, I’ll add it to the driveway in heartbeat… but not for what Porsche is asking for these new ones.
When listing Porsche blunders, don't forget the insanity of 2008 when Porsche attempted a hostile takeover of Volkswagen, which failed; VW Group successfully achieved a hostile takeover of Porsche, but 53% of VW Group is owned by the Porsche and Piech families anyway, so the whole point of it all is some byzantine intrigue that goes back to 1930 or so. None of this did any favors to the sales price or production volume of Porsche's best models, instead prompting them to pump out more generic SUVs to buff up the bottom line.
Yea a lot of UE car brands are doin terrible my homeboy was gon get a gt3 bc he had his gpas 911 from 92and wanted to get a bigger one so he wanted to get a gt3 and it was goin for 450k when it msrp was 250k
I think Porsche has it really overdone with the prices. I am currently looking at an 992.2 GTS. With options the car costs €225k. 4 Years ago the sasme cars would cost you €175k. No thank you! I will rather buy an BMW M8 or another brand for the same fun but much less €.
The switch to EV reminds me of the Omega watch brand switching to digital quartz watches. Omega switch back long after this mistake. Let Casio/Tesla own the market, stay in your lane. People enjoy mechanical things.
Service is number one in my opinion. Do you want to wait 20+ minutes to just check your Mercedes into Mercedes service?.?.?.not at Porsche. Porsche will give you a loaner (just make good friends with the loaner car personnel that won't send you to enterprise or Hertz) and instead call ahead and reserve a loaner at time of service scheduling. Dealer Service is in my opinion the number one in the world. Never more than one or two customers in front of me at my Southern California dealer. I'm always on my way within 20 minutes zooming out in a Macan or Cayenne courtesy loaner
Ive ordered 4 new Porsches from factory in the last 11 years and i do not have one on order now They raised prices too much for me. My old 2018 -911 C4-GTS that I paid 183k (canadian) for is now 230k just 6 years later. No thanks. My next one was a new Turbo S, but even that is way way too high from where it used to be
true, very true. the Porsche aura is looking bad on customers too. I sold my mine after buying a BRZ. Gotta love the car but the company and dealerships? Nah.
Ideal + Porsche could do like Chevrolet with Corvettes in that they can not be marked up at the dealership or they loose distributorship of the Corvette. Porsche should do the same thing with dealers for all their models!!
ADMs wouldn’t be tacked on if customers weren’t paying for them. If they’re walking away in droves then the practice will end. If the practice continues it’s because it’s working. As far as EVs go automakers are between a rock and a hard place because legislators, particularly in Europe, are using regulations to force their production.
Well, if customers are turning to Ferrari for better buying experience and value Porsche is worse than I thought and I did not think very highly from my own experience!
I don't know who's paying you to post this info, but it's not accurate from my southern California Porsche collector point of view. Sales plummeted more recently ('23'-24) because of finance underwriting declining those that don't have cash, but have to finance... or are already financing several and are forced to sell one of their Porsches just too acquire a new one.… Besides the Porsche loyalty aspect. Delayed delivery keeps product exclusive. That's corporate controlled in my opinion, like the movie Blood Diamonds. This post was nine days ago, yet I can get a RS spider for just under 30 K over sticker (Porsche Pasadena) when they used to be well over 50 over sticker. So the figures in your post are based off of what dealers are asking, but, something's only worth what it is going to sell for in this case. So don't be a dummy, shop around, be aggressive, that's my advice.
Chip shortages haven't been a problem since 2020. Hardly anyone wants an EV. The people that wanted to try them did, and most bought something else instead.
I don’t get the EV hate. I daily an i4 M50c just bought an electric Macan for my wife’s daily(all cash) and she also loves it. Still have my Jaguar F-type for weekends. But again, I still just don’t get the hate. People complain of gas prices and maintenance costs, EVs are an easy solution to both…. And yet, so many haters. We charge our cars at home, and our electric bill has only gone up $30 a month. How much do you pay for gas in a month?
They’re definitely in trouble. They probably need to release a new model period. I’d say a seven seater or a small 4 door hatchback like a smaller entry level hybrid sport tourismo
There is no loyalty to anyone! If my money is not good enough to order what I want, then there is plenty to choose from. I am a big advocate to advise everyone to stop paying way over sticker for so-called exclusive models. If enough people stop doing this, the so-called VIP clients will fizzle out. It's a cycle, and you are at the sucker end of it if you keep buying used cars for way over sticker...! Think about it and ($mile)...! 😅
Ever since Covid. The market has gone off the deep end. This is in every sector. There needs to be a reset in every part of the market. Or this is not sustainable.
I'm not worried about Porshe at all unless they continue on this EV path they need to completely reverse course. I just don't see really heavy EV's ever making good sports cars you are always going to have to compensate for the weight of the batteries until they get much lighter. German car buyers are the most brand loyal of any buyers because their cars are an ego stroke for them. They are willing to put up with expensive repairs without complaint overpay for what at times are just very ordinary vehicles. But as long as their are ego's to stroke german luxury brands will do just fine.
People are weird. There is a demand for manufactures to innovate but once they do that thing, they rarely invest in it. Porsche should go with a HEV or PHEV in the Macan in the lineup and do a go full in EV later down the road.
Thoughts on the Porsche m arket as a whole?
Learn how I've made money driving Porsche's for FREE! - bit.ly/FREEICSWORKSHOP
Also, have to think about the Porsche Taycan the burned down the container ship 🚢 with other Porsche's, Lamborghini's, Aston Martin, & Ferrari's as well as other Exotics.
I will never live to stitch in any Electric Vehicle's (EV's)
The only Turbo cars, which are any good are Porsche. The Turbos are mounted away from the engine block. Why is this important? The Turbos get up to be 1,875 ° Fahrenheit or 1,020 ° Celcius. OEM manufacturers mounted Turbos next to or on top of the all aluminum engine block. Mounted without a Heat Shield 🛡 or Insulation blanket Which warps and cuts thru cylinder 3 on Ford ( Ecoboost or GM ( EcoTech ) both I call EcoTragic. Tuner's mount them in front of or away from engine. Pully's add extra barriers.
You could never see me alive in a Electric Vehicle's (EV's) the following is Why:
Hello from Los Angeles California. I lived all my life in Los Angeles California, and in the 1980's the Smog was so thick it filtered the Sun. The smog blocked the Sun so much the winter's in Los Angeles California was so cold between 36° to 55° Fahrenheit nights dropping to 33° Fahrenheit
I couldn't see mountain ranges from where I live 4.5 miles away. Unless it was windy and smog cleared. Now the air is so clear you can see cracks and riges, on the rock walls.
It uses to rain 🌧 none stop for 7 months, and the summers never exceeded 90° Fahrenheit. Due to Sun being filtered from smog I also didn't need shades, for my eyes. Now 🌡 are 110° Fahrenheit for excess of 1.5 months with 5 days in the roll Temps exceeding 116° and 1 day at 120° to 126° depending on fire conditions radiating heat.
Air clean enough, and it will not get any cleaner with only Electric Vehicle's (EV's)
Now to the reason why Environmental green agenda causes Drought Conditions. In 2010- 2013 there were Solar Mirror s installed to project solar arrays to a Tower with mirrors projected downward to under ground reservoir water sources. To generate steam, and generate Electricity.
The temperatures 🌡 causes the atmosphere to close to 5,000° and every time birds fly thru become instantly baked and fall.
In the 1980's the Jetstream used travel across California in to Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and so on to Florida. Due to the Mirrors the Atmospheric High Pressure. Has pushed the Jetstream away from Southern California to North to Washington, and or Canada 🇨🇦 . This cause along with getting rid of Smog cause higher temperatures and Drought Conditions. You couldn't pay me $10,000,000 per hour to sit, promote, sell, let alone buy any Electric Vehicle's (EV's).
If you look up StachD Training channel, on his video titled Lithium Largest Ex plo ding EV Recycling ♻️ Center in Missouri. There were 4 Recycling ♻️ Centers in the United States. Now there are 2 Recycling ♻️ Centers, and none are in the State of California. Due to Environmental Impact, which the video shows Fire Authorities spray granulated elements of the Lithium-Ion Batteries 🔋 Packs, into creeks, rivers, and lake anfmd underground well resources. Not even boiling helps, and fish hacmve died in those water ways. Sure clean the Air while you Pollute the water. In April 2024 the 1st Recycling ♻️ Centers in Phoenix Arizona location burned down, and dousing water to keep cool prenting spread of fires 🔥 have caused Drought Conditions. @truebrit3670 Look it up
StasheD Training channel
Missouri Recycling Center ♻️ Ex Plod ing can't spell this out. Fish died wells for water is no good anymore, and became Acidic
These are facts.
Mirrors in Mojave Desert Modified where Jetstream away from
Southern California.
The so called green agenda is to keep there pockets full or bank accounts.
Its not just Porsche, the damn car industry is way overpriced. People are getting sick of this BS
90% of the crazy price development is due to EV adoption mania and irrationality.
@@ghostridertom Nope. Old tech cars are no cheaper. And Porsche can't make cars only for elderly people.
@@mbasir The problem is that the old tech cars are being used to subsidize the R&D costs of EV vehicles. They have to jack up the prices of old tech cars to help float the negative profit margin EVs until the technology is advanced enough to become profitable on its own.
@@dBsdecibels Tesla has negative profit? Tell Elon Musk that.
@@MQT- manufacturers won't make stripped down budget sports cars, and when they do, they put a subaru engine in it that blows up
I really hate this. Porsche while definitely not cheap has always been at least somewhat attainable. If you really, really wanted one.
I thought I was crazy when I speced a 718 cayman s to $100k. That much for a 300 hp 4 cylinder is insane
@@user00merc Porsche has NEVER been cheap. Not even the 924 or 944 in the 70's and 80's.
I don't think u guys understand how inflation works. 100k today use to be 70k not too long ago
@@mbasir not cheap but it was possible for the middle to upper middle class. Ussally attributed as a car for retiring people. Now those groups cant afford it, with its price hikes and also ofc cost of living.
@@user00merc That's why I sold my 911s for a C8
I think Porsche needs to be the pioneer of mass direct to consumer sales
Within the USA, they can't do that yet. Regulations and a massive lobbyist groups (largest lobbyist group, IIRC) require the dealership middlemen. EVs are exempted from this, if done correctly (hence Tesla, Rivian, etc.). They can get away with this though as they don't have any dealerships to start with. The classic manufacturers can't so easily do this with their EVs. If they try to, they get sued by their dealership partners.
Have to kill the regulation. I'm all for it, but that's the hurdle that needs to be overcome.
US dealers mark up is at fault, it is illegal in Europe. We pay MSRP and taxes that's it. But price across the ranges are still getting out of control...inflation be damn
You’re absolutely right! I’ve been a loyal Porsche customer since the 90’s, having bought 12 cars including 3 GT3’s, yet when I’ve tried to get a 992 GT3 over the last 2 years they want $70-100K over MSRP which is a crime. The 2025 model with not only Porsche’s $40K price increase as well as dealer markup and options will be in the mid $300K range, which competes against 2 year old Ferrari F8’s and McLaren 720’s - and that’s ridiculous.
@@993mikeI’m with you - I’ve given up on Porsche. I used Porsche finder and saw nearly ever 911 turbo s and gt3 touring in the USA is used, abused, flipped and marked up $50 to $100k. It’s the Rolex watch business model but more woke…
ICE prices are rising because manufacturers have lost billions on the politically drive EV nonsense that few buyers want!
in europe ? are you american ? because in ''europe'' there are countries that Mark ups do exit, example, Ireland/Lithuania, i am speaking form my own experience
@ well in continental western Europe , I don’t know any country where it’s legal. As far as know not legal in Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, France, Luxembourg. Used to live in Florida and now located in Belgium and working in the BENLUX area.
The real economy sucks in America. Toys like Porsches are getting out of reach for more and more people.
Porsche has recently announced they are scaling back EV production and it’s a year too late.
EV’s are a joke. They aren’t eco friendly , that’s a scam. They have horrible resale value and are worthless once out of warranty, when the battery needs replacing.
Like I said it my self 🙂
Absolutely agree.
We don’t want EV and hopfully they devalue lol
Oh they are
They drop like lead balloons!
I have a 2008/9 987 Cayman 2.7l base model, manual in Guards Red. But each year I take it to the dealer I feel I am poor as I look at the new models and the prices are ridiculous. In 2008 I could afford a new one, now they are just too expensive, and to think next models are going to be all EV. No way, Im keeping my 987 and naturally aspirated 6 cylinder engine, It sounds the biz. I would certainly NOT buy and electric Cayman, or Macan, just look at the depreciation on the Taycan, over 50%, who would buy a new one?
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You know you are in trouble when Ferrari is an equal consideration to a Porsche because of price hikes
I agree with you. Porsche is too common and too expensive for what it is. Its almost like a cult of blind followers.
You can add in McLaren, and Lamborghini. I have a Miami Blue 991.2 GTS, with CC brakes. To find the same spec in the new 992.2 GTS, my options for the price include those super cars. Hard to spend $200k on a 911. Since I already own one…
Ferrari cost about 2-3 times to buy, but 40-50 times as much to own. Maintenance cost of Ferraris are extreme.
Except that Ferrari also price hike to the next level..
Lightly used Roma!
As a proud owner of a 2010 911s I can assure you that I will never buy an EV...never ever! any brand
Why? I’ll never understand the EV hate. They are great daily drivers. Do you just love the cost of gas & maintenance or what?
EVs are fantastic daily drivers. I don't think they're ready to replace my weekend muscle cars, but I replaced my 3 series with a model 3. Fantastic daily.
@@Broken_But_Not_Brokethey have their place but the problem is the government is pushing to make all cars electric which just isn’t cool 🫤
We car guys,really true car guys want ice car for daily as work is the most part of life, not like using hot girl occasionally t@@thedumbconspirator4956
@@Broken_But_Not_Brokeit’s the same argument against manual transmission cars, auto is superior in every measurable metric, bit you can’t replace the experience of driving a manual that some folks desire. I’m in a similar boat, it will take a lot to get me to switch to ev, but I’m not as staunchly opposed as the commenter. It’s a maybe for me, but with my work travel taking me out of town, I’m not willing to jump onboard anytime soon. Maybe as a third family car, but not today.
The depreciation rate of the Taycan and the Model S Plaid has been insane.
EVs are junk that's why. U can get a 2022 model s plaid for 55k with 11k miles on autolist 😂 a car that was 140k just 2 years ago
If only Porsche had continued the push for synthetic fuels rather than EV's... Nothing but greed there.
They are still doing the synthetic fuel. They are just hedging their bets ...
@evo9lution Yeah, in all the wrong places. The publicity and hype for synthetic fuel is dreadful. Almost nobody I mention it to knows what I'm talking about, and they all seriously believe EV's are the future.
@@InfamousAMH Synthetic fuels are nowhere near mass market ready.
Synthetic fuels are a nice idea but not scalable to parallel the millions of barrels of oil currently necessary to run the world.
@@brandons9138 I never said they were ready.
They need to produce products people want. And I think a lot of people don't want electric cars. I am very disappointed in them making all the 718's electric. I love my Boxster.
They are beying forced to...
I predict that this cars sales will drop in half.
Porsche dealer quoted me $499 for 2 hood strut clips. Which I found a universal one on amazon for $20 a pair and replaced it myself less than 2 min, since the original part was clip on.
I was afraid they might charge me for breathing air in their dealer. Never again.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Paul miller in NJ, quote was 4K to replace 6 spark plugs on a 911 turbo.
If you opt out of options like door handles on a Porsche, they charge you more
I’m 56 years old. I grew up dreaming of having a 911. In March of 2022 I felt I was finally able to “afford” fulfilling that dream. As someone who had never purchased a Porsche from a dealership I was a nobody, so I put a deposit down on a Carrera 2 S, a fairly low trim. I waited 20 months for an allocation. Once I had that, between holiday months, micro chip problems and building and shipping I waited 6 more months to take delivery. Yep, just over 26 months for a standard(ish) 911 with a manual transmission. That’s a long time! To my dealership’s credit I was not asked to buy any other models first, add any certain options to my build, buy a watch or pay above MSRP. That being said, in the two model years I waited, the base price of my car went up over $14K. The happy ending is that I absolutely LOVE my car. However, the experience of getting that car wasn’t so great. Too bad I didn’t grow up wanting a Corvette because I would’ve saved half of my money and gotten a faster car (and still been able to have a stick).
When you get tired of Porsches BS try the corvette Z06. It’s a great car for $140,000 700 horsepower. I’ve driven 911s for 20 years and I’m done. I just bought my first Lamborghini. I won’t go back to Porsche .
I think I’d love a Corvette! The C8’s are the real deal. A true mid engine beast. And I only live about an hour and a half from where they’re built. For now though, I’m having a great time with the Carrera. Congratulations on your Lamborghini! Now that’s an exotic! Bravo!
I worked for a Porsche dealership my last year of high school and first year of college, and while a lot of Porsche dealerships are like that, ours wasn't. Obviously for a limited-production Ferrari/McLaren/Lamborghini/etc, you need some sort of brand history because there a lot of people that want these cars, and it goes to their best customers. I.E. Ferrari with the 812 Competizone, Lamborghini with the Sterrato and first deliveries of the Ruvuelto, McLaren with their LT series cars like the 765lt. We never charged over MSRP for any car that we sold that was a "regular car", so any Porsche that was not a limited production car. We got in a Sport Classic and that had a premium because we only received 1. There were a lot of people in the surrounding area that wanted one, but couldn't get one because we only received one, so people are willing to pay more. Especially when people have a LOT of money. I don't think it is the right thing to do as a dealership, but that is how a lot of these dealerships make money since the profit on most new cars isn't as much as you think. We got in a bunch of new GT3's, and majority went to new customers and a few went to previous customers. Each dealership does it differently at the end of the day, but Porsche does know this and they are trying to make it harder for dealerships and owners that will instantly flip the car. They saw the success of the 911R back when it came out (they didn't think it would be that big of a success), and they wanted to capitalize on it. For the new 992.1 S/T, you can only lease it through Porsche for the first year, then after that year is done, then you can purchase it. A few people have gotten around this, but they won't be getting any more cars in the future from Porsche and will be blacklisted. A guy local to me in Indiana was a big Porsche buyer, and he got black listed and can no longer purchase a new Porsche. The new Porsche 911 prices is also something that people are going crazy about, but it's the inflation. If you do that math and factor in inflation for a 2014 GT3, the new 2024 GT3 is only a few thousand dollars more expensive. Everything has gotten more expensive and that is the way of the world now.
Porsche doesn’t care - they love spectators. For example there’s not one new 911 turbo s in dealer inventory in the whole of the USA. Every one for sale is flipped and marked up massively over original MSRP.
"Ferrari... is willing to work with its customers and offer way more value"...lost credibility with that ridiculous statement 🤣🤣🤣
It's almost like most people can't afford $100,000 or more cars...
I would never buy an ev
I'd buy in as a second car, or a plug-in hybrid. A buddy of mine just got one and hasn't bought gas in months. Charging at home is cheap. I would never want to take one on a longer trip, though.
Because you just love the price of gas and maintenance costs for ice cars?
That's what everyone says. But we all know that isn't true.
@@Broken_But_Not_Broke EV's have plenty of problems. They are not the silver bullet anyone might claim them to be. They just have a different list of pros and cons. Do you really think the cost of electricity will stay the same if/when every car on the road is forced to move to EVs? Of course not. Supply and demand. The advantages they have right now will not last forever, and the drawbacks EV's already have will start rearing their ugly faces more and more. Yes, the people who think EV's the devil are silly, but so are the EV drivers who think they're saving the world by buying a product a few years before everyone else. The product might change, but our problems of doing anything at scale will not.
evs are good though
Yes because their prices have skyrocketed!!!
I have owned 4 Porsches in the last 20 years, my last one was a beautiful 2016 Cayman GTS! I ended up selling it a couple of years ago, at the time it cost me $105,000 which was insane at the time. Today that car is in the mid $150,000’s and if you want the GT4 you are looking at $170,000.
BUT even if you wanted to buy one, you couldn’t find one!!
I have been priced out of the market because I’m not going to pay $150,000 for the same car! It’s just RIDICULOUS!! 😮
I have the same problem with watches. I used to collect Rolex, but it got increasingly harder to buy one, up until the point I just didn’t care anymore and sold off most of the collection.
Same is happening with these brands. People don’t care anymore.
I always heard the Boxster saved Porsche in the 90s
Yes it did and I was one of those buyers and still have that very same car.
It was the suvs.
@@refuztosay9454 Nope. Without the Boxster there would have been no SUV's.
The fact that Boxster/Cayman prices have skyrocketed over the past 15yrs and are now 6 figure cars... Porsche is literally breaking hearts. And bank accounts... And us Porsche fans/owners and even the perspective Porsche buyers are being "forced" into the arms of other brands.
I think Porsche has taken it's customer for granted. I don't like being forced into going electric. I have test driven the new electric it does not make me want to change over from the Macan that I have.. I'm not a fan. I have a Boxster GTS my second one and I'm not a fan of having to go electric on it either. I think hybrids would be a good option to get your feet wet. The infrastructure across the board is not good enough for me to be forced into electrification. Porsche prices are getting extremely ridiculous and for the first time is making me look at two things. One a different brand and to holding on to what I have. A base Porsche Carrera 150k plus. Ridiculous. My dream of being able to not only reach Porsche but to stick and stay with Porsche is fading.
Very underrated aspect of owning EV is that it lacks status.
If i buy AMG with V8 or Porsche with V6, i know i have something that normal guy in VW or Toyota can't have. But EV's are all kind of same. Yes, more powerful, but lacks status and desirability.
That torque punch will entertain you for how long? First few days (like when you bought really fast car fist time)?
On top of that, EVs are soulles as they simply lack one whole aspect of interesting car, which is obviously sound.
Can i see models like Cayenne or Even Macan be fully electric? Ye. I would not buy them, as they are same things as in other EVs just with name porsche and premium price, therefore incredible depreciation, but they can be.
Going Cayman and in fact any true "sports car" Porsche EV is nuts. People won't buy them. Look at Tyacans.
To buy an EV is like buying a quartz watch... The status lays in the craftsmanship of the mechanical works of the watch/engine! But all enthusiast chooses mechanics befor batteries!
Bought my first and only Porsche when I was in my mid-twenties back in the 70's. It was affordable as a new vehicle and I enjoyed driving it, but I was disappointed with the build quality and after a couple of years I sold it and used the cash as a down payment for my first house purchase. While I would still like to own one there's no way I'd pay what they're going for nowadays. I've got a red 1950 MGTD as my fun car and couldn't be happier.
Porsche like other vehicles have gone up in price. Seven years ago a base Carrera started under $100k and now it is $120k and change. The push to electrify has also limited certain models like the Carrera S, which is currently not available on the Porsche car configurator.
Said it many times:
Porsche is overrated, totally not worth it.
Never again.
But Ferrari, Lamborghini etc. treating their customers the same way. Limiting the number of cars and forcing you to buy other products to get one of the limited ones. Porsche is just trying to copy them.
Maybe Ferrari, Lamborghini doesn’t do the exclusivity for cars. Some exceptions could be made with chosen customers when 20 units are built with well over M$1.5 price set. Whereas Porsche set a price from their manufacture, then get double or even triple the price.
Dude, I wanted to buy a new macan, but unfortunately it is only as an EV available. The Porsche Cayenne is too big, so i went with a different brand.
As a proud 911 owner, I will never buy any EV. I only rode in one once that was an Uber to me their garbage. The only place there is there’s a big market for them is in China and their EV have been bursting into flames, burning up, garages and setting other cars on fire, EV are not selling the way they thought they were. I think it was just a trend and people are over it. I drove by Carmax recently. The lot is full of EV‘s that no one wants they don’t have a good resalevalue they are worthless. and they are quite a few insurance companies that will not even insure them one minor accident and they totaled the car out because the batteries are unstable and may explode in anytime.
Could it be the best of both worlds? A hybrid Porsche may be in my future! Can’t wait! Great vid, Brad!
Well its already happening on the 911
I just went thru the biggest service debacle of my life, servicing my Cayenne at an authorized Porsche dealer. They had my Cayenne for two months to do a one day servce. The poor service advisor confided that his mechanics had quit, for a list of reasons, and that he had a long row of used and near new Porsches that had been sitting for weeks, while the dealer desperately tried to find replacement qualified mechanics. Ultimately two very young guys with very limited experience eventually made the repairs to my vehicle. The dealer did not have fluid in stock to change the oil in my transfer case, and could not complete the short list of maintenance items I had requested.
When I finally was able to retrieve it, it had a check engine light and several other minor defects, that were not present when I brought the vehicle to them. They had also bungled a door adjustment, and air was coming in the drivers window on the way home. I will be selling three Porsches I have, as my dealer service options are limited, where I live, and I see this dealer heading to closure at the rate they are going.
Unintended consequences. Originally, the Porsche brand appealed to enthusiast drivers almost 100%. Though “underpowered” it flourished with those who valued design ethos over big horsepower and big everything else. They were selling 175 HP 911s when Corvette did not offer anything less than 300HP. As the market grew, they were the Davids to the Goliaths of those eras: Doing more with less power and less weight. While pricey compared to mass-produced cars, they enjoyed a significant price advantage over their euro competition. The 911 was in a category of one, and one could say that to a significant share of the market, a new 911 was in the same category as a new Ferrari or Lambo. Flip wipe to the present: cheap, huge horsepower is readily available, and the 911 has become a porky twin turbo borderline supercar with a price to match. No longer unique (despite what the brand managers imagine), it is now part of a general pool of expensive performance cars. Market share erosion. What to do? Well, lots of people want SUVs (for whatever reason), so let's offer one or two. And BTW, it will be cheap because we've got all these Audis ready to be rebranded. (be sure to emphasize exclusive Porsche design chassis tuning to the journos, right?) Well, it worked big time, immensely profitable. Flexing the Porsche badge in the pick-up line at school just got real, yo. Only one problem, you are now in a market with a dozen competitors, and many of the customers are not Porsche “until the wheels fall off;”they are just as likely to lease a Lexus, MB, or BMW for their next bus-on-wheels. Welcome to the general marketplace.
Need to make an EV? Enthusiasts will buy an EV. Some of the "I put a Capristo on it as soon as I bought it" crowd (Or, "I just Sawzalled off everything back of the cats!") aren't going to come around for a while, sure, But meanwhile, Tacan! Four-door, Porsche branded high-performance EV! We'll have the market to ourselves! Except for the Tesla S and 3 Performance, any Lucid, MB's, BMW, (not to mention the BYD 150K super car) and oh yeah, I can buy the same thing in an Audi at a big discount. Holy competition Batman!
Porsche is in a paradox. On the one hand, they are now selling general market cars without any real advantages (other than the badge) yet at premium prices. The 911 and its endless variants are now in overload; great cars that are now priced at nearly entry-level prices of Ferrari and Lambo, Aston, etc. The Porsche value proposition has completely disappeared. It is not easy to back off the high of success (that option list is a virtual goldmine). But this is a perfect example of the unintended consequences of transitioning from an enthusiast's beloved niche brand to just another car company. I'm not sure how you come back from this addiction; things probably could have been different if Porsche had succeeded in buying VW, not the other way around, etc. Or not. But really, this is an industry-wide problem. I hope "our" little car company weathers the storm.
(In full disclosure, I have owned many Porsches, but currently (and until my wheels fall off), I own 2, the youngest being over 50 years old. Your mileage may vary.)
Prices are higher, but the real problem for many is wage stagnation. That aside, I must be cheap. With a high 8 figure net worth I cannot justify buying a new 911 Turbo. I'm looking for a 997.2 Turbo or Turbo S manual.
Yep 100%, the boxster and cayman used to be the poor man’s Porsche. You can’t find even a base model on a dealer lot new for less than 75k
Handling. Interior, exterior, steering feel, suspension, should I continue? Have 911 turbo s, tesla model Y performance, and Ford F150 lightning. Will upgrade to Cyberbeast in 2 years and thinking about Porsche tycan turbo s. Tested one at infinion raceway in Sonoma loved it. Not ready to get rid of 911.
I love when yall do these vids on porshce, Keep them on the low!
Im not really sure where this is coming from. My local porsche dealer is literally sold out of any 911 .. there is a long waiting list. Meanwhile on the used market porsche holds their value like no other car. I think its mainly the shortages i guess.
Costs have killed the car-guy-culture.
Me, personally, I don't want any of the crap beyond analogue speedo, thacho, oil and water temperature gauges, A/C and perhaps a clock and radio. Get rid of the electric doors, windows, shock absorbers,...
Minimize the inclusion of Tech.
And get the cars back under 2,500 pounds--I remember when sports cars weighed 1600 pounds not 3600 pounds.
You know you messed up somewhere when people are turning to the red stallion for an "affordable business model" instead of paying your prices😂 I'm a big Porsche fan, but the dealerships are really making it hard for us.
I've been a lifelong Porsche fan but after getting a simple Tesla Model 3 I dont think about them anymore. I wouldnt even trade what I have for one because I have great torque and the only costly part of ownership is burning through tires which shows I do use it. I know a lot of loyalists will hate this comment and I never thought I would change camps but I did. And I dont regret it.
I can afford and would love to acquire a Porsche Macan/Cayenne.But the dealer fees and extras are obnoxiously stupid.An EV Porsche is not a "Porsche". The day I would finance an EV is when the price drops below $40K w/the performance and range figs of AT LEAST a Tesla Y/X/S/3 Performance.
An EV doesn’t connect with emotions ... And will reduce the expected live of the vehicle
Buy a classic Porsche air cooled. They tend to hold their values. Generally new Porsches depreciate save 2021 bat auction exuberance If you are shocked at Porsche prices. You should continue investing , be patient. Once you achieve a high net worth you don’t care what things costs. Porsche wants that client.
They actually reached out to Toyota to help with their manufacturing. Toyota helped them become more efficient. Not many people know that.
In most countries dealers legally cannot charge more than the MSRP - it's very weird to see a "dealer markup" - insane....
I live in a fairly affluent area and my neighbors have all traded their Porsche, Benz, and BMW's for Lexus' and Toyota's. I am so glad, because Porsche and BMW alike are charging unethical prices for these cars and the cost of maintenance is ridiculous and it's great to see their sales plummet. I was once in the market for a 911 S, but at $120K base plus options/tax would probably take me to $160,000+. NO THANK YOU. You can have your euro-trash performance car.
Porsche is the Rolex of the car world. They make good products, but they're hype brands, many people buy them because other people say it's good. They used to be rare but now they're everywhere. The owners think they're driving the best machine in the world.
Biggest mistake was putting a Porsche badge on a boring SUV.
The big problem is the poor quality of EVs such as the Taycan.
I can live with the prices...they're a sign of the times. What drives me crazy are the Dealer markups and the fact that Porsche lets them do it. Needs to stop for the regular lineup.
When they are owned by a much bigger car company that owns a bunch of other car companies, i think that helps on years when there is a down turn in sales. I love Porsche myself but i could never afford a new one, the people that can have so many other options for less money, I think it's a good thing they are owned by VW.
Now that was fun, sharing the times before Porsche offered only sports cars, no SUV’s! The ev’s across the board? NO. In fact, if a totally stripped down 911 manual was available, anyone else in? Let’s go!
Porsche wouldn’t exist if they didn’t start selling SUV’s 😂
suvs are fine, but they shouldn't be pushing evs this much
What I don't understand is that purist complained when Porsche started selling SUV's, but the reason is because of sales. Like do purist want a company to just die off or release a profitable model to fund the sports car? I find it selfish to complain and bash the company that is trying to save themselves
Thought I wanted a 718 Cayman recently but found for a new one with a few options they get over $90k for a base model. Value is just not there. 718 GTS 4.0 around $130k.
Most Porsche sports cars are around for many decades. They are “special” cars for the owner, and are maintained and cherished - even as a daily driver. With an ICE power plant, multi-decade ownership is a realistic goal. With an EV, multi-decade ownership becomes economically unfeasible since the cost to replace the EV battery is prohibitively expensive. While EV’s have many practical attributes, they are disposable cars. And disposable cars don’t appeal to drivers who want a car they can cherish. The brain can like an EV, but the heart can never love it.
Getting rid of the Macan Turbo just to badge a GTS with the highest power engine and boosting the price hurt the Macan sales.
I left Rolex for the same reason I left Porsche. I now wear Omega and drive a C8 convertible. MUCH MUCH better value. Never looking back.
Car companies need to hit the reset button on pricing because salaries are not increasing like that at all.
Let’s just say that wages are not keeping with the rise in prices of vehicles. All manufacturers have increased prices dramatically. Then dealers try to tack on crap to the sticker
The EV cars are not selling but ICE cars seemt o be OK except for China
I bought an Audi A3 etron, because it’s an EV for 90% of my driving, but when I need to travel a longer distance, the turbo 4-banger does the trick. Then when I wanna rip around like an asshole, Dynamic Mode does the trick… that said, if the opportunity to get into a 996 or 997 targa 4 pops up, I’ll add it to the driveway in heartbeat… but not for what Porsche is asking for these new ones.
When listing Porsche blunders, don't forget the insanity of 2008 when Porsche attempted a hostile takeover of Volkswagen, which failed; VW Group successfully achieved a hostile takeover of Porsche, but 53% of VW Group is owned by the Porsche and Piech families anyway, so the whole point of it all is some byzantine intrigue that goes back to 1930 or so. None of this did any favors to the sales price or production volume of Porsche's best models, instead prompting them to pump out more generic SUVs to buff up the bottom line.
Yea a lot of UE car brands are doin terrible my homeboy was gon get a gt3 bc he had his gpas 911 from 92and wanted to get a bigger one so he wanted to get a gt3 and it was goin for 450k when it msrp was 250k
I think Porsche has it really overdone with the prices. I am currently looking at an 992.2 GTS. With options the car costs €225k. 4 Years ago the sasme cars would cost you €175k. No thank you! I will rather buy an BMW M8 or another brand for the same fun but much less €.
The switch to EV reminds me of the Omega watch brand switching to digital quartz watches. Omega switch back long after this mistake. Let Casio/Tesla own the market, stay in your lane. People enjoy mechanical things.
Service is number one in my opinion. Do you want to wait 20+ minutes to just check your Mercedes into Mercedes service?.?.?.not at Porsche. Porsche will give you a loaner (just make good friends with the loaner car personnel that won't send you to enterprise or Hertz) and instead call ahead and reserve a loaner at time of service scheduling. Dealer Service is in my opinion the number one in the world. Never more than one or two customers in front of me at my Southern California dealer. I'm always on my way within 20 minutes zooming out in a Macan or Cayenne courtesy loaner
That picture of the Lotus Emeya is absolutely not the Lotus Emeya. I think it's a concept car that's never been made. The Emeya is a four-door sedan.
Ive ordered 4 new Porsches from factory in the last 11 years and i do not have one on order now They raised prices too much for me. My old 2018 -911 C4-GTS that I paid 183k (canadian) for is now 230k just 6 years later. No thanks. My next one was a new Turbo S, but even that is way way too high from where it used to be
😂 I love the 718 and 911 though❤
Another reason why people might not like Porsche is because most of there cars only have 4-6 cylinders.
Can't forget that you have to buy a garage of porsches to, then, buy the GT3 RS (which is still very expensive by itself) 💀
Seriously? Sales are down because refresh is coming out soon. 911, macan, Boxster, Cayman, cayenne. Etc. whole Porsche line ups are getting fresh.
Gave up on Porsche. Too expensive. Had 993, 996gt2....
F type - way better value, actually MORE reliable, and at under 120mph just as fun.
true, very true. the Porsche aura is looking bad on customers too. I sold my mine after buying a BRZ. Gotta love the car but the company and dealerships? Nah.
Ideal + Porsche could do like Chevrolet with Corvettes in that they can not be marked up at the dealership or they loose distributorship of the Corvette. Porsche should do the same thing with dealers for all their models!!
"Exclusivity" = bad. Full stop. Yes, there are very good alternatives.
ADMs wouldn’t be tacked on if customers weren’t paying for them. If they’re walking away in droves then the practice will end. If the practice continues it’s because it’s working. As far as EVs go automakers are between a rock and a hard place because legislators, particularly in Europe, are using regulations to force their production.
They have been gouging car enthusiasts for decades. It’s about time. Overcharging for a mass produced steel chassis. What goes up must come down!
If Porsche discontinues the internal combustion engine and I’m forced to buy an EV it will be a Lucid Sapphire, those things mental!!!
I heard the Chinese BYD YangWang has better specs than Lamborghini and only priced under $200k USD.
Well, if customers are turning to Ferrari for better buying experience and value Porsche is worse than I thought and I did not think very highly from my own experience!
Dealers are snobs. Can't get exclusive cars without getting the entry level cars first.
I don't know who's paying you to post this info, but it's not accurate from my southern California Porsche collector point of view. Sales plummeted more recently ('23'-24) because of finance underwriting declining those that don't have cash, but have to finance... or are already financing several and are forced to sell one of their Porsches just too acquire a new one.… Besides the Porsche loyalty aspect. Delayed delivery keeps product exclusive. That's corporate controlled in my opinion, like the movie Blood Diamonds. This post was nine days ago, yet I can get a RS spider for just under 30 K over sticker (Porsche Pasadena) when they used to be well over 50 over sticker. So the figures in your post are based off of what dealers are asking, but, something's only worth what it is going to sell for in this case. So don't be a dummy, shop around, be aggressive, that's my advice.
Chip shortages haven't been a problem since 2020. Hardly anyone wants an EV. The people that wanted to try them did, and most bought something else instead.
I love my 981 Cayman. In an SUV I’d consider a hybrid but not an EV.
They are pricing themselves into oblivion. I've been saying that since 1971.
I don’t get the EV hate. I daily an i4 M50c just bought an electric Macan for my wife’s daily(all cash) and she also loves it. Still have my Jaguar F-type for weekends. But again, I still just don’t get the hate. People complain of gas prices and maintenance costs, EVs are an easy solution to both…. And yet, so many haters. We charge our cars at home, and our electric bill has only gone up $30 a month. How much do you pay for gas in a month?
They’re definitely in trouble. They probably need to release a new model period. I’d say a seven seater or a small 4 door hatchback like a smaller entry level hybrid sport tourismo
There is no loyalty to anyone! If my money is not good enough to order what I want, then there is plenty to choose from. I am a big advocate to advise everyone to stop paying way over sticker for so-called exclusive models. If enough people stop doing this, the so-called VIP clients will fizzle out. It's a cycle, and you are at the sucker end of it if you keep buying used cars for way over sticker...! Think about it and ($mile)...! 😅
250k for a 911? No way… I’d rather get an Italian exotic even with a few miles.
Couldn’t be that they have had the same design for like 100 years and charge a huge premium for the Pcar badge? 🤔
To me, the new EU regulations requiring speed warnings, driver monitoring and remote shut offs is a killer for 2025 and beyond European cars.
People are being priced out of thier homes and groceries, who has money for a Porsche?
A Big mac is 12$ these days...
Best driver's cars though
Ever since Covid. The market has gone off the deep end. This is in every sector. There needs to be a reset in every part of the market. Or this is not sustainable.
As long as they have a flat six ICE 911, there will always be at least a niche market for Porsche
I'm not worried about Porshe at all unless they continue on this EV path they need to completely reverse course. I just don't see really heavy EV's ever making good sports cars you are always going to have to compensate for the weight of the batteries until they get much lighter. German car buyers are the most brand loyal of any buyers because their cars are an ego stroke for them. They are willing to put up with expensive repairs without complaint overpay for what at times are just very ordinary vehicles. But as long as their are ego's to stroke german luxury brands will do just fine.
People are weird. There is a demand for manufactures to innovate but once they do that thing, they rarely invest in it. Porsche should go with a HEV or PHEV in the Macan in the lineup and do a go full in EV later down the road.
I’ll never buy an EV. I want an engine like cars always have since I have been driving. I’m in my 60’s now and like powerful combustion engines