Flocking Terrain - Spray Glue Vs PVA (Pt1)
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
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Join me as I experiment with pva, spray glue & hair spray to find out the best way of glueing and sealing flock to your terrain boards whilst minimising warping.
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Another great video. As regards reducing warpage, I use 2mm mdf for basing 6mm historical wargames units and have found that painting the underside with dilute PVA seems to do the trick. I think it works by evening out the tension caused by the shrinking of the PVA as it dries. I don't know if it would work on terrain boards but it might be worth a try. Hope your wife is ok and doesn't hit you too hard when she finds out you used all her hairspray!
Ian Miller I've tried counter-coating but never had good results with it, might have to give it another go mate. Don't worry, I've replaced the hairspray, I choose life lol ;-)
I'm about to add some flocking to our 'Zombie Plague' game boards to liven them up a bit, and this is exactly what I was looking for, i.e. 'the best way to stick it'. Great stuff. Thanks!
VERY useful tests..being a PVA man I think it time to experiment! Nice job mate.
I use clamps or even short nails to hold my MDF down. I always use sand that I washed over MDF and Foam for terrain pieces. Once the sand is glued on, it becomes rock solid and it will never warp. Then if fill in the holes or stick foliage or rubble over the holes from the nails and then paint, dry-brush, and then use static grass. I don't use generic flock on terrain pieces anymore. I can control exactly where the grass wants to be and the bare patches are nice sand that takes drybrushing very well. Of course, rocks and rubble and large stones or dead tree trunks are glued on before the sand. Anyway - painting the bottom of the board is good too, but not really necessary. The sand and yellow wood glue I use mages a rock solid surface to work on that will not warp.
Sorry to hear about your wife. Speedy recovery!
Pretty interesting video.
My wife would probably have killed if I had put so much PVA on the kitchen table XD.
On an other note, what I like to do to seal my terrain is to give it a layer of matt acrylic spray varnish, it gets so hard I could probably smack someone with it without any damage on the terrain!
To prevent warping of the MDF I will try to seal it first with the spray varnish before putting the PVA on it, hope it works...
Very interesting - thank you!
Nice idea mate, interesting to see the results
***** cheers buddy, sometimes you've just got to have a play
It's a really cool tutorial.
great vid, nice experimenting, some surprising results :)
unkhter cheers buddy, surprised me as well :-)
Thanks so much, this was great info. I don't have to wonder what works the best. Have a beer for us. Hope the wifes doing better.
All the best to your wife for a speedy recovery!
Scott Dallimore Thanks, she's doing well mate
TheTerrainTutor
Brilliant! Happy to hear it. :)
Great experiment Mel. It seems to me that if I'm using the pva to place it I might as well use it to seal it as well. One less product to keep around. Always good to have options. :)
Best wishes to your wife Mel. I hope she recovers well and quickly. Just getting her dining room table back could help eh? ;)
DrDeathmonger As long as there's no warping issues mate, then yeah, pva is the best. She's doing much better now but please don't mention the kitchen table, I don't like to give her false hope ;-)
Great experiment mate gave me some ideas
mazdamundi85 Cheers buddy, I'd do more experiementing but I'm busy getting this Orcnar Eotan ready to give you a kicking! ;-)
Ooooh, I see. Then using the spray glue, PVA sealant looks even better :)
Your vids are great by the way!
James Hoffman Looking that way mate, cheers buddy :-)
Interesting video on how to flock on a table.
***** cheers matey
I've found that spray adhesives sometimes require a little pressure to make a good seal. Before losing the excess flock, maybe give it some pressure with a rolling pin over the top? That might solve the diminished coverage issue... [If you're using your kitchen rolling pin, I suggest you cover it with cling-film first!]
MrLGDUK Thanks for the tip matey, I'll definitely give it try :-)
PVA is unbeatable!
Very nice name for the shed. ;)
***** It's why I love it so :-)
Me too. I don't need as much as a whole bucket, but my PVA bottles are always almost empty.
Hi Mel, I love your channel.
Could you please make a video explaining how to make that gorgeous tree?
Thank you, and good work!
Vic Isgaard It's on the list matey :-)
Thank you TheTerrainTutor, I suppose is the "Making Wire Trees" video. I simply thought it was another one (it seems a different tree, and as you mentioned it when talking about the spray glue and it was not used on the other tree...)
Good luck with the shed mate!
I love you these experiments so we don't have to! A truly noble service!
I'm curious how the spray adhesive sealed with pva works on a large scale.
I have to do about six 3x3 malifaux boards for my local store out of thin MDF due to storage constraints. If the rubber won't warp the boards like pva does then I'm golden.!
What im saying is, don't hesitate to do that on a larger scale. :)
Best of luck with the shed and well wishes to the poorly missus!
I love that you do these experiments***
Didn't mean to say I love you
what a laugh
Terrain "Two-Sheds" Tutor?
Mitchell Gibson It's sealing now, so I'll know in the morning mate, vid will be up by Thursday night ;-)
So personally I think I prefer the spray adhesive for a couple reasons. One was something you mentioned it definitely having a glossier appearance after sealing with the PVA which I like. Another is because i do like to do earth tones in the undercoat before the flocking and while the PVA definitely provided a more even coverage the spray gave it a more randomized broken up coverage that looks natural i.e. grass doesn't grow perfectly even and uniform over large plots of land hat you're representing with the board in the first place. Although in that regard I suppose thats up to the builders aesthetic, some like an even "game board" like look, while I prefer the more natural random look.
Things that keep me up at night vol. 1: when no matter what i do the rubble and debris looks like it was placed there and not deposited there random from an explosion...
Brandon Bader It's certainly a more realistic effect, I'd prefer it if I had better control over it thought mate, more experimentation needed!
Brandon Bader Throw the large pieces at it first, seriously, check my rubble vid mate ;-)
ill get to it,I've been slowly working my way through your channel for a few days now :P
keep up the good work, the god emperor requires it of you
Good one Mel. Did you notice if the hairspray had a gloss to it at all? I remember my grandma's hair seemed to shine and she used Aquanet hairspray. Anyway hope you recorded the whatyamacallit tavern being setup and hope it all goes smooth for you.
BlackTower Terrain Once it had dried, it was completely matt but I'm guessing it depending on how 'glossy' the hairspray is. I'm sure the tavern build will be an adventure mate :-)
Yeah you gave my suggested name on the shed!!!!!
blablabla it just had to be that mate ;-)
TheTerrainTutor ;)
Those boards with the bare spots actually look good and natural. Spray them with PVA and good to go.
+Diabolik771 I liked them too
Awesome video as always, mate. Really useful.
Can I ask what your choice of flock is? flock and static grass if one area where my knowledge falls down.
***** Cheers mate, I pretty much exclusively use Javis scenics :-)
For the spray glue, you might try mashing down the flock after you sprinkle it on. Since the spray glue doesn't have any capillary action, you might get better coverage if you force some more contact. But as you say, the effect as is acceptable. In fact, it has a nice fading that keeps the grass looking natural. Nice test vid. :)
***** I thought I'd answered you before but obviously not. Yeah mate, definiately needs more experimentation but it does give a really nice patchy effect, it's just a shame I can't control the effect .... yet ;-)
TheTerrainTutor
Oh, you want control do ya?? ;) I can see how it might be tricky. A bare patch along an edge of a modular board creates a visual problem easily.
TheTerrainTutor It seems to me, that you maybe can control the patch effect if you go first for a better coverage with pressing down, as terranscapes said, and than seal it with hairspray. In the video it seems a little harder to rub the flock from the surface than non sealed adhesive, so maybe now you can create the patches you want with light rubbing. Afterwards seal your final surface with watered down pva.
Could I use mica powder as flocking powder?
I tend to get alot of warpage using ova glue az well so I started to use hot glue cuz it drys faster and iz plyable for easier application on materials like cardboard or partical board az well...
DMBLAIR WULF Yeah, pva and cardboard don't mix that well, hotglues definitely the way to go in that situation.
The spray adhesive does look quite interesting, could look better on a painted textured surface. Would make me feel better if I'd taken the time to texture and paint the boards that it's not 100% covered with flock. Looks like you can't beat watered down PVA for sealing, although I've never had any success at trying to use a spray bottle, always seems to clog it up....
Dan Cain Yeah mate, are you adding a flow aid and a agitator to your spray bottle?
Have you ever tried using PVA to glue the flocking down and then the spray glue for sealing only? And then compare the spray glue sealing with the PVA watered down and hairspray.
+Jimmy Utterström I think we covered that one in one of the terrain lab flockng vids mate, we did three sets of experiments on flocking if memory serves
I somewhat expected that since the surface tension of watered down PVA causes it to flow around and fill in spots you missed and it flows up into the flock a bit.
ghostbirdofprey Yeah mate, the rubber is strictly a contact glue, although I'm starting to wonder about multiple layers of spray glue to build up thickness in areas
Would it work on sand too?
Looks like if you're gonna glue flocking down with rubber glue, you need to paint the board with a base coat of green. This might actually add another layer of texture to the work. It would be interesting to use a darker shade than the flocking and see how that looks. Also, I had a problem with using hair spray for sealing some hills, as it would turn frosty when someone rubbed it. I used quite a bit, maybe thats why. I hope the your wife gets better. I know thats a big worry in your life right now. Keep crackin' on!
Bill D. in Iowa Brown still works well but green would definitely give a solid coverage mate. That's for the heads up on the frosting, I'll keep my eye out for it. The wife is doing much better now, thanks for you concern matey.
Were do you get that tree you have in the background at the start?
+James Lynch I made it, tutorials in the foliage playlist bud
ok thanks ill check it out
idea? spray with adhesive, then put newlayer of newspaper down to catch yourextra flock...save lil money?
Ok. Just started doing trees. Should i seal the trees with watered down pva vs hairspray? Also should i use that sprayable watered down pva to put the flocking on my trees??
only use pva to seal if you didn't use it to stick your foliage on
TheTerrainTutor Cheers!!
Hey Mel,
Great Video, what was the flow aide that you mentioned in your watered down 50 / 50 mix of PVA?
Thanks as always sir!
yes mate
TheTerrainTutor haha, what was the flow aide? TIA mate.
Do you ever really have any problems with warping after applying PVA on a 12mm board??
James Hoffman Not major warping but you can get the corners rising a little which is fine for a single board but if it's part of a modular board, then it becomes an issue mate
I take it then that PVA is the best choice....
Hope Mrs Terrain Tutor is ok
Spydah666 She's fine and yes, warping aside, PVA is always the best choice matey ;-)
Thats good.
And now I know when I get to do a table to use pva :)
Mel Does the spray adhesive make good model saliva?
jim white personally, I wouldn't spray it anywhere near a model mate lol
Thank you.
Whatyacallit? :p
MegaFreezeProduction Whatchamacallit :-D
whatchcallit..lol
yeah!
Best wishes to your wife.
DukensteinA1 Thanks mate, she's doing much better now
I might as well rub my cat than watch 10 minutes of this....
sorry, long day..
But, really 'yeah, whatdja call it', informative 'yeah'.
+Proteus-5 Glad it helped bud