Niacin Increases NAD (Test Results)
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2023
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Paper referenced in the video:
Niacin Cures Systemic NAD+ Deficiency and Improves Muscle Performance in Adult-Onset Mitochondrial Myopathy
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32386... - Наука та технологія
Just a minor correction: nicotinic acid is not in the salvage pathway. It's in the Preiss-Handler pathway.
There are 3 pathways to make NAD: 1) de novo (starts with tryptophan) 2) Preiss-Handler pathway (starts with nicotinic acid), and 3) salvage pathway (which includes nicotinamide, NR, and NMN).
Yes, thanks @justsaying7065, and my apologies for the error! Pinning this!
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I realise you've got a lot of variables in play already, but it would be interesting to see you try nicotinamide, as I get flushing with just 100mg niacin and cannot imagine what 600mg would do to me! I would do the test myself, but NAD measurement is not available in my location. Thanks for all your efforts to elucidate these pathways.
I use Nicotinic Acid and don’t mind the flush. i regard it as confirmation of the cncentration of the active ingredient in the supplement. I have read that the Nicotinamide form of Niacin is harmful to the liver while Nicotinic Acid is not. I believe one of the supplement companies is using Niacinamide to boost NAD via the salvage pathway. Needless to say, this is both contradictory and confusing.
I can't believe 600mg of niacin increases more nad than 1000mg of NMN.
About 20% of people have difficulties getting NMN into cells. I think you should try NR instead.
Michael, i really appreciate your detailed explanation of the pathways for these biochemical reactions. You explain complex concepts in a clearly understandable way. Thx Ed
Thanks @edwhite2255!
I'm an aging [74] Canadian man who has been taking 2g/d [yes, 2000 mg] of niacin for over 25 years for "cholesterol control". My GP back then had persuaded me to start on Zocor. A couple of months later some blood tests confirmed it was working, but I whined about the cost. The GP thought for a minute, then stated that he'd forgotten to mention niacin because he himself had very bad flushing reactions. I said I'd give it a try, and here we are. My present GP tells me my blood numbers are all boringly within normal limits. The trick with niacin is to ease into large doses slowly, and if for any reason you miss a day or two, to cut the next dose to 1/4 normal & work up slowly again.
For those utterly new to niacin, I'd suggest starting with half a 500 mg tablet per day for a couple of days, then start increasing every couple of days by no more than 250 mg/d until you reach your desired target, somewhere between 1500 mg/d and 2500 mg/day. At these high doses, I'd also suggest taking half the dose in early morning & the remainder in early evening to reduce the likelihood of annoying flushing.
BTW, I am NOT obese, & do NOT suffer from T2D, so I'm not terrified that high-dose niacin will do me any harm.
What is T2D and how do i know if i have it. Thankyou.
@@bioschlock "Type Two Diabetes" google for details
Thank you @jrb_sland, your suggestion is so inspiring.
I'm taking Niacin.. thx.
Wow, great data and a concise explanation. Thank you so much.
Thank you for another outstanding video! Your commitment and dedication are greatly valued and appreciated.
This is amazing! Thank you for sharing your tests. I wish I could test mine too.
You did an OUTSTANDING JOB! Thank you - much appreciated…I have SUBSCRIBED!!!
Thanks appreciate your hard work and sharing.
Fascinating! Great stuff.
Very clearly explained. Thanks for the thorough testing and reporting!
Thanks @_FightForYourFreedom_!
I always feel I can't wait for your next video. Every episode ends in a cliffhanger :)
Thanks @christianravera6768!
Lustgarten out here straight up running one of the most valuable n=1 experiments known to humanity. This man will be talked about for years in the future.
This is amazing!!! 😊👍
Another great video Michael. Like others have mentioned in the comments, would it be possible to add some comments to them detailing how you feel these changes affects you. I know it is subjective but it would be interesting to see how the changes affect you on a day-to-day basis.
Thanks @KMSid21. Subjectively, no difference for feel, no improvements for workout performance or sleep. Maybe that will be different at > 100 uM.
I subscribed just because it is the most clever name for a UA-cam channel I heard of.
Great result!
Outstanding 😊
Really enjoy your relentless pursuit of your N1 goals.
Thanks @Hail2MasterChief!
Amazing methodology 🎉
Impressive, really informative
fascinating biochem , and well presented, tks
Great video 👌
I've just found your channel. keep up the good work! just subscribed😊
Thanks @WellnessMessiah!
you should both do a podcast!
Great stuff
Ah! Great! I'd been waitng for that one. 😄
... but you still won't get a coffee, because Buy Me A Coffee's payment system doesn't accept postal codes longer (or shorter) than five numerals. 🙄
I contacted their support service, but they'll probably tell me that it's how the Stripe payment system works and it's my fault for not living in the US.
No answer from their support service, but I got an email from my bank telling me that Buy Me A Coffee charged me for $3. 🤨
Great video... I'm also taking niacin as opposed to NMN or NR simply because of the cost factor. It's hard to justify NMN or NR at nearly $1-2 for 500mg vs a whopping 3cents for 500mg of niacin. and considering i personally take 1500mg of nicotinic acid a day, putting up with a little bit of flushing doesn't seem like such a big deal! Yes, 1500 mg/day carries additional risks, but also the majority of the cholesterol benefits are typically only seen at dose above 1000mg/day, and I mitigate the risks... adequate choline (500mg/day min), inositol (500mg/day min) , folate (1000mcg/day min), b12 (1200mcg/day min), etc, get lots of protein in the correct amino acid ratios (including a roughly 3:1 intake of glycine to cysteine), don't drink, and take things like AKG, berberine, astragalus, apigenin, psyllium husk, etc. to help support blood sugar levels, insulin sensitivity, and support my kidney's and liver, including ensuring the correct ratio of iron copper and zinc in my diet, while never taking any of those together in supplement form, and when takin as a supplement, always as an amino acid chelate or else strictly from food (naturally chelated), and never taking vitamin C with iron or copper.. (the list goes on and on.. lol).
Now, about the last part of your video, although 2 gr a day of tryptophan should be tolerable, I do have a few concerns.
As I am sure you are aware, an imbalance of amino acids can be just as detrimental as an insufficiency, and it sounds like you are already getting more than twice the adequate intake for tryptophan for an individual of your size, roughly in line with myself. Adequate intake is roughly 5mg/kg/d. Also, to maintain proper ratios, intake should be roughly 0.4x Histidine (I use histidine as the reference line due to the relatively high potential for toxicity, relative to the other amino acids. Generally if you are consuming safe levels of histidine, and you are getting all other amino acids in the correct ratios, all the other amino acids will also be within their respective tolerable upper limits. ) .
I am roughly 90kg, so using myself as a baseline, an adequate intake should be just 450mg/d. I personally average around 1200mg/d, nearly 3 times the adequate intake, but well within the UL of 6gr/day (this UL may be a bit too high as the risk of serotonin syndrome and other side effects seems to increase significantly past 4.5gr/day). If you are already getting roughly 1000mg/day, it is HIGHLY unlikely that this is a limiting factor for you as this is well in line with my own intake, and I get a minimum of 110-150gr/day of combined amino acids from all sources, and I go out of my way to ensure proper ratios. (I take a base of whey concentrate and collogen peptides to help stay on target, but tweak things based on the reported content of the foods I eat each day).
All that said, 2 grams is well below the UL, and well below the 4.5gr/day level associated with increased risk of side effects, so I'm not particularly concerned about the risk from consuming that much tryptophan per say, I just thought yo should be aware that 1. it's unlikely to make a large difference given your current intake, and 2. that it is important that you increase the remainder of your essential amino acid intake accordingly to avoid issues with amino acid imbalance.
The last thing any of us want is you making yourself sick... otherwise, super impressed with your videos and journey so far, keep up the great work!
That's a fair assessment about potentially too much tryptophan. Note that I'm doing full blood panels ~every 2 months, so if anything aberrant pops out, i should be able to catch it.
Let’s get you tested to see whether it works for you. It is by far not universal. You need to find out whether you are benefiting or wasting your time.
@@shejin-xiong4833 Testing is on my to do list, but I can say this, the changes to my body since starting down this path have been profound!!... no more grey hairs, massive change to body composition, skin health, etc..
Very anecdotal, yes, but I started on this journey after and suffering multiple arterial dissections and almost loosing a kidney (Blood clot caused it to become ischemic, for weeks, they thought I had lost it as there was no contrast dye showing up in the CT scans at the time), .
My latest CT scans and urine analysis all show that my kidneys and cardiovascular system has made a full recovery. All dissections have fully healed, kidney is back to full function and shows no signs of any kind of impairment (I didn't even know that the nephrons or tubules could regenerate, or at least I thought it was far more limited than what we've seen).
And things have just been like wolverine weird.. Visually I'm now indistinguishable from when I was in my 20's, my BP is roughly 105/65, things have healed that I've had issues with for years like nerve damage pain (peripheral neuropathy) from multiple knee surgeries, just gone. I have no body aches or pains anywhere, even the my vision has improved (last few years things up close started to get blurry, not anymore)...
I know this isn't as good as cold hard numbers, but I started this to try and improve my health, and it is VERY hard to argue with the results.. My friends have even taking to calling me Benjamin Button.. lol... so something is working.
@@michaelransom5841 Glad to hear your story. Just curious, why did you get blood clot ? did it happen after Covid vaccine?
@@denny8111 somebody did their homework.. lol.. it's interesting you say that, it happened exactly 2 weeks after my second phizer dose.
I've always been a fit individual, healthy, athletic, used to be a personal trainer even, so it seemed very out of the blue. They ran every test you could imagine under the sun, even had a full genetic screening done to look for any possible anomalies in genes that affect connective tissues... The entire incident lasted just shy of 4 weeks, with me in hospital for 2 solid weeks.
In the end they could find no cause for the clots and dissections. No one officially went on record saying it was likely a reaction to the vaccine, but all the doctors involved did admit that was basically the only remaining plausible cause...
I still find it strange that, despite ruling out every single possible cause, including possible genetic factors, They still weren't willing to officially call it a reaction to the vaccine, even though, lets face it, we are all pretty certain that's exactly what it was.
The effect of taking vitamin B3 on angiogenesis and its impact on cancer growth is an interesting topic that has been investigated in scientific literature. Vitamin B3, also known as niacin or nicotinamide, is an essential nutrient that plays a significant role in various biological processes.
Angiogenesis is the process of forming new blood vessels from existing ones. It is a crucial step in tumor growth and development as it supplies the tumor with nutrients and oxygen, which are essential for the proliferation and survival of cancer cells.
Several studies have shown that vitamin B3 may play a role in angiogenesis and cancer growth. Some studies suggest that vitamin B3 can stimulate angiogenesis, potentially leading to increased tumor growth. On the other hand, other research has demonstrated that vitamin B3 may have an inhibitory effect on angiogenesis, which could reduce cancer growth.
It is important to note that the relationship between vitamin B3 intake, angiogenesis, and cancer growth is complex and may depend on various factors such as the concentration of vitamin B3, the type of cancer, and individual health conditions.
In general, it can be stated that the link between vitamin B3 intake, angiogenesis, and cancer growth is not yet fully elucidated, and further research is needed to gain a clearer understanding of the specific mechanisms and effects
Maybe avoid Niacin if you have cancer would be the logical answer.
@@mats8038 The immune system removes cancer cells consistently. Sometimes it fails.
Would a nad plus supplement have same effect
sounds like it's wunna them modulator doohickeys
Cancer can’t survive is a low glucose environment. I would be interested in a low carb diet combine with Niacin to see if it has inhibitory effects.
Best TV series I’ve ever watched!
Great video, just subscribed. With the movement afoot to pull nmn from the market, I've been expecting to see increased interest in other pathways, and it's great to see some real-life comparison data on a pathway that doesn't involve taking nmn.
EDIT: Just saw the pinned comment, sounds like this isn't the salvage pathway. Personally, I've been using a combination of nmn (while it's still available) and nicotinamide (not NA), but haven't done any blood tests. That's probably the next step.
One of the main points of the channel is that we don't have to wait for RCTs performed in others to guide health decisions-we can test ourselves to see what works or doesn't!
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I agree this is a great approach and I'm looking forward to following and learning more about self-testing.
Awesome information thanks
Interesting, as usual. It is always hard to remove the time response component as I noticed what looked like a decay function after your NMN peak. Then of course it is difficult to control for life style such as change in excercise regime etc. Nevertheless, you are looking for big size effect which can overcome variability constraints, I guess. Looking forward to you blood test results😊
As always, fantastic info. Thank you for sharing.
I'd also be interested in the niacin brand, and is it a no flush like sogar has.
Thanks @etielahat9414. Nicotinic acid, which is sold as niacin by bulksupplements.com (not sponsored or affiliated). There's a flush...
It’s also a pretty sizable dose - how long can you take it on the daily basis without side effects? Do u plan to pulse it?
Excellent work. Have you tried NR? I take Niacin so you information was helpful and reassurring.
Thanks @9kilsyth. Nope, I haven't tried NR yet. If the EPA+DHA-NAd experiment doesn't work, I'll likely go back to niacin, but at a very low dose.
Fruitful video. Good
Super awesome and exciting news! I know it's subjective but curious how you feel now that your NAD levels have more than doubled?
Unfortunately, no difference for energy levels...
Thank you for your detailed walkthroughs! Do you think there are differences in form of niacin? Nicotinic acid vs nicotinamide?
Thanks @pettersbrevlada. Both should work, but the only way to know is to test NAD levels.
Great videos! There have been a few other similar questions but I'm curious to know why you've chosen not to supplement with betaine or TMG? (Since TMG lowers homocysteine and provides the needed methyl donors for the niacin to be processed.)
Thanks @scotthamann1476. I've supplemented with TMG in the past, up to 3g/d, wtih no effect on homocysteine.
Michael, thank you for sharing as always.
I have a question. Did compare your cholesterol numbers before and after taking Niacin?
Hi @MrEtc31265, average TC = 142 for 44 tests since 2015, 133 for this test.
Wow.
I remember listening to a Dr. Ford Brewer from John Hopkins talk about niacin being used to lower cholesterol before statins entered the picture.
And he seems to ask and wonder why niacin has been forgotten. Is there an unsafe low level for TC?
I think I read from WebMD that TC =150 is good and TC below 120 is bad?
My TC = 182, it was 211
Are your testosterone levels good?
I am trying to get my testosterone levels up.
I was taking DHEA. My DHEA levels were too high.
I am still taking NMN.
Thanks
Everett
Thanks! That's just what I wanted to know. How Niacin impacted on your NAD levels.
Thanks. Wished you had told people about the Niacin flush, or to stay away from a kind of timed release Niacin, or effects taking this stuff might have on the liver.
Yep, that's for another video, as 9 minutes is already pretty long. I was also going to go into potential effects for HDL, Lp(a), and BP, each could be improved in my data.
Re: grape seed powder and NAD.
Grape seed powder is supposed to be one of the more effective senolytics. It wouldn't be shocking at all if an effective senolytic decreased NAD levels in the bloodstream because you would need to pull NAD into the cells for this and that would be a good thing.
Hmm, interesting hypothesis
Great video and love the attention to detail!
Have you tried anything for CD38 like luteolin, apigenine or rutin?
Have you checked what happens with NADPH if you increase Pregnenolone?
Thanks @amritrosell8561. I average ~100 mg of apignein/d from fresh parsley, and also get regular quercetin from onions, so I don't think it's a CD38 issue. Not sure about NADPH-pregnenolone...
Thanks for quick response! I was going to suggest quercetin phytosome, but figured you knew about that. Parsley is nice. :)
I was thinking since Pregnenolone can decline with age and it is part of the pathway to DHEA, perhaps it is not in sufficient amounts to get more DHEA?
@@infoservicetech9181 both are produced via cholesterol, so I may go back to increasing that in conjunction with higher NAD (and NADPH)
Is it possible that there is a lot of variability in the test to get your NAD levels? It would be worth doing a series of blood tests at different times of the day in the control phase just to see what the variance is. Without knowing it, it is possible that one might make decisions just based on noise.
How are you controlling the amount of methyl-donors? Siim Land (record man in minimal aging rate) recommends the supplementation with TMG when using NMN. So, I guess the same would apply when supplementing with Niacin to boost NAD. This seems to be very important. I know you prefer to provide them with whole foods. But have you tracked this? How would you know you have enough methyl-donors and wont need to supplement with TMG or similar? Thanks.
Also, what is your age measured with DNA-methylation estimators? I think you should put your name in Brian Johnsons list of the Rejuvenation Olympics.
Michael very informative video.new subscriber here.just started b3 in a flush form 1week ago in the morning so far seeing a surge in energy and my memory is becoming sharp that's what i noticed less episode of forgetfulness. i would like to ask can i continue taking pregnenolone 10mg i usually take at night(started two weeks ago).37 YO female here
My guy. This is great. Right to the point. Thank you! I couldnt afford 1000mg of nr or nmn per day. 😅
Thanks @19moods. Even better, only 60mg/d of nicotinic acid increases NAD: ua-cam.com/video/RmiQ0fb_Fug/v-deo.html
I'm 23 and getting my midlife crisis done early. I really am hyper fixated on improving my overall health and slowing or halting the aging process. When I get the money, I would like to check out my NAD+ content as I was taking some exogenous NAD+ supplements for a short while, but have in the last 4-5 months done intermittent fasting and keto, which according to anecdotal testimonies seems to increase NAD's. Lately I've been doing a 2 day fast on weekends to enter a short term autophagy. I'm monitoring all my health metrics including blood ketone level daily to make sure I'm staying in good health as well.
My hope is that I can get in great shape and then do whatever I can to stop aging. I've lost nearly 70lbs over the past 2 years and 30 of those were the last 4 months. I've gained more muscle and lost more fat than I ever have, which leads me to wonder if there is a way to check my myostatin levels. My understanding is that myostatin increases with age, but can be remedied for a short while through exercise and muscle development, but there may be specific antogonists for it entering the medicine scene soon.
You're 23 and worried about the aging process? Sounds like you were overweight so the commendable loss of weight will make you feel much better, as will increased exercise. I didn't notice any aging effects until my 40's. Prior to 40's I had an active outdoor lifestyle with good, unprocessed food etc. After 40 it was harder to stay fit, eat well and get enough sleep due to raising kids, working long hours (sedentary) and stress. At 50 I joined a gym to do group classes - weights, cycling, aerobics etc. I'm now 67, not on any medication. I take a few supplements, vitamin C, B, magnesium, zinc. Avoid processed food. Drink a little too much alcohol (my choice), I don't have the energy of my 50's but I feel good. Don't stress about slowing aging - eat well (not too much), get outside, exercise, get enough sleep, deal with stress, meditate, your body is incredible it will 'naturally' deal with imbalances as long as you treat it well. Enjoy the life you have now 😊😊
A little young to be worried about NAD levels, aren't you? U don't have a deficit until midlife and excess NAD when your young does not improve health or performance. However, it could kickstart any cancers you may have a predisposition for.
Impressive weight loss and gains!
Great video once again. I would like to ask if you have any concern about the diabetic effect of niacin
Thanks @Daltarakis. I do, and glucose went down to 89 from 93, but I'm definitely keeping an eye on it and liver enzymes, which doubled with high-dose niacin in the past.
Although I am not the one this was directed to, yes, you are correct, this is a concern.
However, at the dose he is taking, it is unlikely to be a significant issue.
That said, I take 1500mg, and for myself, it is a much much significant concern.
that is way I do not just take it in isolation. It is possible to completely mitigate this risk with proper nutritional support. NA should be complemented with the full suite of other B vitamins, plenty of B12 and choline, magnesium, calcium, boron, trace minerals, adequate intakes of glycine and cysteine, essential amino acids, and a proper diet low in sources of simple carbs and sugars but with plenty of fiber.
Also supplements such as berberine and astragalus can also help regulate blood sugar and maintain insulin sensitivity.
As with everything, there is no magic bullet, but the good news is, when properly balanced, you can see all the benefits without incurring the negative side effects (aside from flushing, but it does get less intense with time, and at most it only occurs once per day for me, despite taking a 500mg pill 3 time a day)
Thank you so much Michael for taking your time and writing it all out, this is so helpful!!
@@michaelransom5841 As, @AT-xl9db said, thanks for writing that all out. Would you be able to list the benefits you are experiencing with your supplementation please? I am currently supplementing with glyNAC and additional glycine as well as collagen and am interested in adding for NAD levels so I am curious as to the benefits real people are experiencing.
@@KMSid21 any time.. I am working on a complete short form review of the literature on each dietary factor and their efficacy in improving health, roles, doses, and interactions with other dietary factors.
I will try and make it available when complete. It's definitely eye opening. A lot of "conventional wisdom" is actually downright dangerous. or example, Vitamin C is often taken along side Iron as this increases the bioavailability of the iron. However, this leads to the rapid oxidation of the Vitamin C and converts is to a pro-oxidant. In addition the iron and vitamin C undergo Fenton's reaction in vitro, which creates dangerous ROS. If this translates exactly in vivo is a matter of debate, but something similar does seem to occur, and vitamin C taken with copper or Iron has been demonstrated to cause oxidative kidney damage. Also, there agonistic and antagonistic relationships, the effect of chelation etc.
I applaud your use of GlyNAC and collagen peptides, you are obviously staying abreast of the science, but a cool little fact that could save you some money and increase the efficacy of your regiment is the fact that whey protein is a more bioavailable source of cysteine than NAC is. NAC 100 has it's place in clinical settings, it can be given as an injection after all, but if I remember right I think it's only roughly 12 % bioavailable. This is because there are a number of rate limiting enzymatic steps involved in the absorption and metabolism of Cysteine, a fact that NAC was invented to help address. While NAC does increase bioavailability, it's only moderately effective... Whey protein on the other hand cheats!.. it is only one of two sources of cysteine that is chelated in such a way that allows it to skip past some of the steps, making it the most bioavailable form of cysteine around, at least when ingested orally. best part, you don't really need to know all the details... If you simply take 5 grams collagen peptides to 30 grams whey concentrate, you wind up with a nearly perfect ratio of all the amino acids involved!.. this means a roughly 3:1 ratio of glycine to cysteine, plus the appropriate ratios of all the other essential amino acids. So you end up with GlyNAC as a happy aside while getting all your other essential amino acids! I thought that was a pretty crazy coincidence when i first learned about it myself, it's almost like they were meant to go together!.. it's certainly rare to get such a perfect alignment like that, but hey.. I'll take the win.. lol.
Anyway, hope you get some use out of that.. Cheers!
Nice!
I take 500 mg per day and it literally gives me a feel of burns my skin like cold plunge after sauna, but I feels like my mind and body is alive on a whole new level, it's the weirdest supplement of them all but also my favourite supplement. I wish I could let other people try it but I am scared of their reactions to it, some people literally get panic attacks after taking NA even thou the red skin flush is completely safe.
Yeah the flush freaks people out but I see it as my capillaries getting a good stretch. Itchyfungood!
@@alexcarter8807 so is the flush even healthy?
@@angenehmerweiblicherfussge7000 no one seems to know the answer to this...or no one is telling, a big secret I guess. It obviously improves blood flow to your capillaries, therefore mproving nutrient delivery. I saw a video about lions main and niacin helping dementia patients due to blood flow.
What I have found for myself in using niacin for the first time in years is I get a massive flush from 500 mg at once. But opening up the gel cap and pouring half of the powder into a small amount of water, swirling it around, and then drinking that I just get a warmth in my upper body instead of the dramatic effect from the 500 mg all at once. Then I follow up with the second bit of powder after the warming goes away, which is typically in about 15 to 20 minutes
Thank you for confirming my own conclusions; 1g of NMN had little or no effect, 500mg NA daily has a definitive effect on my energy levels. No flush with 500mg, just a bit of warming lower jaw and/or forearms.
Thanks again doc. I've been taking 50mg niacin daily for years but never thought of taking that much. How do you feel not that your NAD concentration doubled?
Aside from the flush, the same. But keeping NAD relatively high may be important for slowing aging, especially when considering how man enzymatic reactions require it.
Thank you so much for this video. I am going to test my NAD levels and switch if nmn is not working for me.
That's the only way to know!
Liposomal or enteric coated NMN work far better ime
@@friedux2065 What was your NAD with their inclusion?
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Didnt test, just based on subjective effects. Those forms have a pronounced effect on my energy and workout performance, whereas pure powder does not.
Do you have a take on CoQ10? I'm always told that it has an effect on mitochondrial health.
what will be better niacin or niacinamide (no flush b3?)
Your topics are very important academic data, could you please invest good audio so that we can hear you better? Thank you sir for your great research
Thanks @seekfactsnotfiction9056., and apologies. I'm actively working on improving the audio (see more recent videos), and have an external microphone.
Michael - very interesting work here. Wondering with big jump in NAD did you notice having more energy as NAD important for mitochondria the batteries of cells. As you have dedicated exercise program where think you are doing pull-ups - with jump in NAD were able to do more number of pull-ups? And with blood check - which cells of blood are the NAD increasing in - red blood cells maybe? Important probably for NAD is to boost in muscle cells but here to check need a muscle biopsy which uncommon. Are there reports or studies where did with patients both blood and biopsies to check correlations as to if increase in blood also increase in muscle cells? .Thank you for all work and efforts here.
Thanks @michael-qp9xd, nope, not yet. No improvement for workout performance, including pullups. That's a good point about whether I increased muscle NAD, I'm not sure.
Great! I'm wondering if you consider NMN to be subject to degradation by CD38, but Nician. Thank you, Michael, for your informative information
Thanks @weiminyang7206. That's definitely possible, as CD38 degrades NMN and NR. I'm not sure for niacin, though...
Edit.. I should clarify..
Yes, it has the same NET effect....it does get complicated though. there is a lot of back and forth here, and it is a complicated process... In fact CD38 utilizes nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADP) to synthesize nicotinic acid as well.
Obviously things can get a bit confusing on this side of the reactions, but the key takeaway is that CD38 consumes a ridiculous amount of NAD+, regardless of how it was synthesized.
at the end of the day, one of the most effective ways to increase NAD+ levels is to reduce CD38 activity.
Although you don't want to stop it's expression entirely, or you will die, overexpression of CD38 is linked to a number of age related metabolic dysfunctions, and limited inhibition of it's expression can have profound effects on health and wellbeing.
Several naturally occurring compounds are reported to inhibit the catalytic activity of CD38 including flavonoid compounds apigenin, quercetin, and curcumin (turmeric) among others.
@@michaelransom5841 I think I may have too much CD38 activity. Many people with CMV and EPV have CD38 activity that leads to mitochondrial depletion.
@@pureffmVery likely, check out a paper labeled "The Multi-faceted Ecto-enzyme CD38: Roles in Immunomodulation, Cancer, Aging, and Metabolic Diseases" if you want to do a deep dive.
Front. Immunol., 31 May 2019
Sec. Inflammation
Volume 10 - 2019
Cheers!
@@michaelransom5841 you say i can inhibit CD38 using cheap curcuma? no need for expensive apigen or insane amount of parsley?
Michael - mentioned much are side effects of high levels of niacin at just 50mg/day below. You mention going to 600 mg/day - any concerns at this very high level?
Side effects may include diarrhea, headache, stomach discomfort, and bloating. High doses (50 mg or more) of niacin can cause side effects. The most common side effect is called "niacin flush," which is a burning, tingling sensation in the face and chest, and red or flushed skin.
Flush yes, also potential GI issues, but I need more data. The GI issues may be worse with the combination of tryptophan + niacin. The main concern is not messing up any other biomarkers, which was true at 600 mg niacin (see the blood test report in an earlier video on the channel).
Michael, Does Niacin increase Intracellular or Extracellular NAD+?
I'd like to know, thank you very much!
Hey @HuyHuynh-qt1fx, the Jinfiniti test measures intracellular blood levels. We'd need a liver or muscle biopsy to see if it works inside cells.There may be a work-around, as I'm currently sending blood for metabolomic analysis on the same day as testing NAD.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Thank you for reply! Interesting to see if Niacin can raise intracellular NAD+ :p
What about Nicotinamide (B3)? I realised that my B3 bottle says Nicotinamide instead of Niacin. Could you perform a test with Nicotinamide? Or, if you already know from literature, can you talk about the difference in terms of NAD increase in the body?
Also, this experiment and report is amazing, thanks a lot!
I'm not sure if nicotinamide would work, but that's something that you could try...I'll likely stick with nicotinamide and/or tryptophan (results pending!).
Thanks a lot. This video is really amazing! I have watched it like 20 times already and still learning (I'm a slow learner). It is a boomer that the B3 I got is not Niacin! Anyways thanks a lot!
Again, you mention in the video that your NAD levels are low. How do you know they are low? What is your target range? This is important for us to know. Probably NMN and B6 are not working because your body senses you are already in "correct" levels (who knows). I hope you can talk a couple of minutes in the next video about this "optimal" range.
@@espinosalexis Based on Jinfiniti's relatively small group of > 100 people, NAD levels for people < 30y have NAD > 40, whereas it's significantly lower for people > 30y.
In terms of what's optimal above 40 uM, that's very debatable. Going forward, I'll send every NAD test with metabolomics (iollo), which can help assess if higher NAD improves mitochondrial function, for example, as 3 enzymes in the TCA pathawy require NAD. However, that video will take a few tests to gather enough data...
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Thanks a lot. I have watched the full playlist of NAD now and I see that, indeed, you report the optimal range in man of the videos. Amazing series of videos!
Michael, Did you test your homocysteine levels whilst on Niacin supplementation? noticed in the past that you mentioned Niacinamide can increase homocysteine levels. I have muscle myopathy and stopped taking Niacinamide because I was worried about my homocysteine levels being too high (25.36 mull/L). Thank you.
My thought exactly, and I was under the impression that extra methyl groups had to also be taken with nicotinic acid to counter balance the homeocysteine increase, such as TMG or MSM. MSM can also supply a Sulphur molecule.
Hi @helenmckay3260, I did, and it was 10.7, which was higher than the previous test (10.1), but lower than the test before that (11). But, I'm also taking serine + B6, so maybe it could've been higher than 10.7.
Subbed. Very interesting. Nicotinamide should be same as Niacin aka nicotinic acid, correct? Same mg for nicotinamide as niacin too?
Niacinamide should work as well. There are papers out there that show that niacinamide supplementation raises NAD.
Niacinamide and nicotinic acid have similar molecular weight, so dosage for both should be similar as well.
It's nicotinic acid, which is what they used in the paper, too. I'm not sure if nicotinamide raises NAD, though.
Thanks @justsaying7065, can you please post of of those papers (titles instead if blocked by YT)?
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Title: A single oral supplementation of nicotinamide within the daily tolerable upper level increases blood NAD+ levels in healthy subjects
@@justsaying7065 I recall that Niacinamide has a much more deleterious effect on Homocysteine compared to Niacin in studies.
Have you tried the same thing using inositol hexanicotinate?
Inositol hexanicotinate is the slow-release form of niacin.
Inositil hexanicotinate works better than other forms.
:-)
I haven't, but it could be on the list, thanks.
You're nmn test hypothesis was missing the idea of adding more methyl donors in the salvage pathway. Tests show adding TMG will help greatly
That's a possibility for future experiments, thanks @seanolivas9148
Hi, i am starting flush niacin. Heared its good with lyme dissease. Does this raise NAD? Any recomendations?
Great video as usual. Pls keep them coming. But I recall your video a few years ago ua-cam.com/video/y6joAp_UghQ/v-deo.html. Will Niacin increase homocysteine levels similar to Niacinamide as indicated in your earlier video? And based on this earlier video, can one infer that it is more efficient to pair NAD precursors with B12 (as methyl group donor) rather than TMG (which is what seems to be recommended by most 'experts'). It might be that the more effective your NAD precursor is (in synthesizing NAD), the more the increase in Homocysteine. Are you still tracing your Homocysteine? It would be great if you could share the corresponding Homocysteine levels with the increase NAD levels. Many thanks.
Yes, thanks @guuseh2918, that's a good point about niacin impacting homocysteine. I'll have more on that in Wednesday's video. I won't go into the NAD-homocysteine story too much in that video, but may in a future video. TMG in my case didn't lower homocysteine (up to 3g/d).
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Great! Looking forward to it. Thx.
I'm still waiting for the comparative studies of cheap niacin vs NR or NMN.
Technically I can do that: 600 mg of Nicotinic acid = 59 - 67 uM NAD (2 tests). 300 NMN = no increase above baseline (25uM), but 1000 mg NMN = 39 uM NAD. So a lower nicotinic acid dose relative to NMN increased NAD (for me), and by a lot more.
Detailed this in this video: ua-cam.com/video/7_CY7LrFPwU/v-deo.html
Can you make a video summarizing what has worked to improve blood markers. Or daily diet.
Further, did you ever try supplementing with HA orally (hyaluronic acid). Would be a great test.
I am on 2x500mg niacin, 2x500mg HA, 2x1g taurine, 2x(2x 600mg nac with selen), daily b complex, and all that has helped me drop triglycerides that have been for over a decade 500+ to normal levels. Crp is below lab measuring scale (most of the time).
Troponin l-hs below measuring scale.
Other markers are remarkably good too.
24 hr ecg/ekg was excellent.
Hb a1c 4.9.
That list for me is just a must. I have my parents (70s) on the same they have improved tremendously, you should consider at least some supplements.
The reason for my above statement about considering supplementation is that is difficult to control the increase of a specific nutrient, vitamins or polyphenols.
Your carrot consumption was a good example.
Also you seem to be reaching a point where you need fine tuning individual components as opposed to pre-packaged complete food with many components.
Interesting stuff. Which Niacin supplement did you use?
nicotinic acid
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Thank you. What brand?
Cool thing about niacin is it's super cheap, yes it can cause flushing but that goes away with use. If the flush really bothers you take it with applesauce, in studies (you can find in google scholar) applesauce helps reduce the flushing just as well as aspirin.
Are you taking instant release Niacin or extended/sustained release. i ask because it seems that extended release versions are purported to be hepatotoxic.
Instant release. I'm doing full blood panels to make sure there is no liver damage, which has happened otome in the past with high-dose nicotinic acid (up to 3g/d).
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 are you taking the full dose at once, if so how do you handle the flush, and do you have any idea if the non flush version would also increase NAD levels.
Michael, I am interested in how you have been feeling at each level of NAD. The blood NAD levels are one thing, but how does it correlate with your overall well-being? One thing for me I have noticed is that NMN really make me too tense compared to my NR/NMN/NAD combo. Both make me indifferent to cold, as my body becomes a heat engine. And Niacin usually makes me more relaxed and my muscles feel more oxygenated, less tense. I also have NAD only supplements that will try soon. My doses are usually small but I find that I react strongly to even 150mg of any of those! When I was on B3 at high (250) dose for over a week I developed peripheral neuropathy, so I think it had an effect on my nerves, maybe because I was missing some other B vitamins (rlatively speaking). I have a very high testosterone levels for my age, so it is possible NAD or NMN is not the best for me. I should really get my NAD levels tested to find my baseline.
Great question and it is always interesting to see how certain supplementation affects different people.
@@KMSid21 Yes, especially in someone who can actually correlate effects with measured blood levels.
when i took B3 500-750mg i felt like 20 years younger for the first 3-4 days.. later only like 5 - 10 years younger. my homocystein went to 20. switching to NR and taking TMG its down to 11
@@livintnet I never had high homocysteine levels. I personally think the body self-balances itself given the right nutrition (assuming your digestion is good). Therefore I also believe that intervening inside complex enzymatic transformation chains to raise intermediary molecules is likely to create some imbalances. The body is extremely precise in adapting the levels of each nutrient. I also think that once you take such a supplement, any study about homocystein or other biomarker becomes irrelevant - because the studies tell us what are normal levels for people without the supplements...Who is to say that those same markers at those same concentrations are now better or worse without doing the longevity study on people who take those same supplements. I think people generally obsess with certain biomarkers but by taking supplements, they invalidate the ideal levels found in studies to begin with. So they may be chasing after a mirage (moving target). Have your red light, eat nutritious food source and oxygenate your body and let your body do the rest - it is what I think.
Also as we know with many molecules, when you increase certain receptors or decrease through supplementation, it takes a while for your metabolism to go back to normal. So by supplementing on certain things, we may actually worsen the supplement-less baseline, so that going back to normal is not possible. We see that with Keto diets, it is hard for people to eat carbs again once they have adapted to fat-based energy. The muscles are less efficient at converting and accepting insulin for several weeks. We also see that with NMN, which can perturb sleep patterns for a long time.
@pureffm Subjectively, I feel the same, but I may need to go higher for NAD to experience an effect. I do kinda like the flush, though-I think it's good to vasodilate more often.
very interesting
Thanks for your excellent presentation as always. I have a question regarding the mechanics of niacin. For instance, if you have high phosphorus and high blood glucose and then you take niacin, will it reduce the phosphorus level and blood sugar level in your body? Dr Sinclair said that niacin will look to bond with a sugar molecule and a phosphorus module to form NMN. If this is the case, will it be good for people with high blood sugar level and high phosphorus level to take niacin because it will reduce the levels of these 2 markers?
Thanks @Telecom515. Regardless of what might be true or the credentials of who says it, the only way to know is to do the experiment, i.e. blood testing, to see for yourself...
My English is not good. does nicotinamide( no flush niacin) 500mg is good for improving NAD level?
Have you considered that maybe your body tries to stay in homeostasis, and so slowly adjusts your metabolism to bring NAD levels back to what is needed, vs what is desired?
NAD declines during aging, and mine are low based on age-related trends. Will it be beneficial for health or longevity to raise it to more youthful levels? How high is too high? I'll explore that in upcoming videos...
Could adding a dhea supplement curb the synthesis of atp into dhea taking some of the strain off of the atp system extending life and increasing ase atp levels?
I heard an interview with Charles Brenner ? Where categorically stated that plasma icnad was not a reflection of NAD+ … he said that a liver biopsy was needed …
That could be true, but if plasma levels are low, it's should be more likely that tissue levels are low, too.
I think one way to get around the plasma vs tissue NAD levels is with metabolomics-if NAD increases, there could be changes in certain plasma metabolites (lower TCA cycle metabolites in blood, lower acylcarnitines), which could suggest better mitochondrial function.
Could you see if inositol hexanicotinate raises nad+ levels?!?!?
My skin was on fire at 450.
how about resveratrol?
How about lowering the CD38 like combining Niacin with Apigenin? I think the cheapest will be dried parsley.
Hey @enricopuno8276, CD38 inhibitors are already a part of the overall approach-see this video:
ua-cam.com/video/ESCIfQp7z-U/v-deo.html
There are also other CD38 videos in the NAD playlist...
To be honest I don't get the same effects from Niacin unless I take doses in excess of 2g which causes an incredible flush and might be damaging to the liver with regular high doses..
NMN has proved to be the best NAD pre-cursor for me.
On another note: I'm wondering if there is some 'back talk' from NMN to Tryptophan or if there could be another molecule along the Kynurenine pathway that interferes with the body's ability to create NAD, because if I don't get a good sleep the nmn is less effective?
If you take TMG with the niacin you will not have problem with your liver.
I thin I read that the endocrine system gets its cholesterol from HDL cholesterol not LDL cholesterol
I guess I am going to rain on the Niacin parade, just as I have done with other NAD boosters in the past. I think people should be aware that we already have a wealth of data on Niacin supplementation and the data that I have seen does not seem to be compelling. I provide some snippets of studies below.
I am curious as to whether niacin may have negatively affected any of your other biomarkers ( e.g., blood glucose, homocysteine, liver enzymes) or improved other biomarkers. I am on a daily dose of 50 mg niacin. I am a bit wary of a going higher in Niacin.
Regardless of whether Niacin raises NAD or not, the evidence for Niacin supplementation (from a mortality standpoint) does not seem to be great. If Niacin supplements generally increase NAD, that NAD increase does not appear to do that much for health in studies.
"Results: During the screening phase, titration of niacin dose from 100 mg to 1000 mg daily resulted in a 17% increase in mean plasma homocyst(e)ine level from 13.1 +/- 4.4 micromol/L to 15.3 +/- 5.6 micromol/L (P
Thanks jack, nothing else changed (waiting on epigenetic and telomere data, though), other than a possible small increase for HDL and lower BP, too. The take home from your post is that we should self-test, to see if any supplement is net beneficial or not.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I think that the other take home (at least in my view) is that an improvement in biomarkers does not necessarily equate to an improvement in health. My view on this was reinforced after reading the NIH finding today. The NIH found that Niacin improved lipid markers, but did not improve CVD mortality. So Niacin appears to be an example of a supplement that can be used to improve biomarkers, but yet not generally lead to beneficial mortality outcomes.
Similar to the Niacin example, I recall that certain homocysteine reducing supplements may effectively reduce homocysteine, but may not improve mortality outcomes. I would have to search through my old comments to find that data.
It could be that biomarkers alone do not give us a good enough picture on any particular modality. A two step verification system might be appropriate where possible:
(1) Does the modality improve a biomarker;
(2) Does the modality improve lifespan or health span.
I would argue that if you don't have item (2) then the modality might be useless or even harmful. One could imagine a harmful situation whereby people use Niacin to improve health markers in lieu of statins. The problem with that is that Niacin appears to improve biomarkers, but not mortality. Whereas statins appear to improve both biomarkers and mortality.
In the above hypothetical, perhaps Niacin supplementation has tricked people into believing that they improved their health with improved biomarkers and has likewise tricked them into believing that they do not need statins or some other modality (e.g. exercise , improved diet)
Would you try Niacinamide NAM?
Interesting. I'm on 500mg Niacin since a year or so for other studies I've read. But this kind of enforces my belief to continue.
The best way to know would be testing NAD...I though 300 mg NMN would raise it, but it didn't, for example.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 NMN is a large molecule so 300mg is not much. It's equivalent to ~111mg nicotinic acid.
@conqueragingordietrying1797 what brand did you use for the 300mg? Was it liposomal? What brand of niacin?
Very useful. It will be interesting to see the results of going over 600 mg of niacin per day. Does it increse NAD further or is 600 mg a point of salvage pathway saturation. How does the dose-response curve look. Exciting stuff!
Although I'd have to go back over the studies as I can't remember if the study doses for NAD+ increase examined that, but off the top of my head I suspect that it would. I say this because the cholesterol benefits of nicotinic acid are likely linked to it's ability to raise NAD+ levels, and most of the benefits to cholesterol are seen at doses above 1000mg/day, so it goes to reason that the same would hold true for NAD+ levels. That said, I would double check the literature before going with such a high dose. Full disclosure, I take 1500mg/day, but I also recognize the risks associated with such a high dose (liver, kidney, blood sugar etc.) and take considerable steps to mitigate them.
Oh... and by the way.. when he says "niacin" here, he means nicotinic acid, which does not use the salvage pathway... that's the "other niacin", niacinamide AKA nicotinamide (NAM)... Nicotinic acid (NA) uses the Preiss-Handler pathway. This is independent from the salvage pathway...
Unless you are deficient, DO NOT USE NAM (in large amounts)....
Every molecule of NAD+ in circulation in your body will eventually become NAM.
It is the waste product after NAD+ has been used.
This then becomes your bodies main source of NAD+ via the salvage pathway through the conversion of NAM to NMN via the rate limiting enzyme NAMPT.
However, ANY time NAM is in excess of the rate limiting enzyme, 2 BAD things happen...
1. excess free NAM supresses the activation of the sirtuin genes (also cd38, parp etc..),
2. Your body clears the excess NAM via the clearance pathway via NMNT which depletes methyl groups, stains the liver and kidneys, and raises homocysteine levels (bad)..
While it is true that anything that is done to increase NAD+ levels will inevitably also increase NAM levels, we can much more easily buffer and mitigate the risks if we use one of the other pathways to increase NAD+ levels, thereby increasing the amount of NAD+ available relative to the amount of circulating NAM. These are the Preiss-Handler pathway, the de novo pathway, and more recently, the salvage pathway but on the far side of the rate limiting enzyme through the use of NR or NMN, this last one being the most direct (and most expensive).
Hope that clears up any confusion... we really have to come up with better naming conventions!
@@michaelransom5841 i take 500mg niacinamide one day and 500mg flush niacin the next day and so on. is this ok too to get the benefits of both supplements?
If I am okay with flush, can I take niacin in an empty stomach? Thanks
For me b1 plus Nam give me a huge boost. Nmn gives me chest anxiety.
Have you ever been tested for the MTHFR gene mutation?
How was your energy level and exercise performance with an NAD of 19.9 uM?
About the same, but it's subjective. No deficits for exercise performance, or energy levels, but that could be mind over matter. Also, no subjective difference with NAD = 67UM, either.
My main concern with such a high NA dose is its methyl group stripping action which could result in higher homocysteine among other things. But since you take TMG its probably not a concern. How did you tolerate the crazy flushing from that high of a dose?
I don't take TMG, but homocysteine was 10.7, which was up from 10.1 but less than 11, which was without niacin. I like the kinda like the flush...
why do all take only TMG? if i google methyl donors i get a ton of supplements who do that like creatine or MSM an many other. so why TMG when there are so many others which alot of people take anyway.
@@angenehmerweiblicherfussge7000 Cheapest, Creatine is not a methyl donor it just spares the body from using methyl groups to produce endogenous creatine. MSM has side effects when dosed in a manner that would provide methylation support.
I took 500 mg of niacin twice a day for months (or even years) and seem to have _more_ energy since I stopped, though considering all the other factors that changed in my life and supplementation, it's probably a coincidence. Another possibility, though, is that I should have taken TMG with the niacin. I'll try that. I'd actually already ordered some niacin and TMG before this video was posted, to take advantage of a Vitacost sale. I've ordered some P5P and methylcobalamin at the same time.
my question: why do all take only TMG? if i google methyl donors i get a ton of supplements who do that like creatine or MSM an many other. so why TMG when there are so many others which alot of people take anyway.
@@angenehmerweiblicherfussge7000 True. And both creatine and MSM, to borrow the examples you provided, have other benefits.
ok i wanted this NAD boost. bought some nicotinic acid 500mg. holy heck. this stuff turns my skin on fire. even at half dose with food. walmart sells a non flushing version which is another formulation (not nicotinic acid). Any idea if that'll also work to boost NAD? Or would an extended release maybe work better?
The only way to know is to measure NAD. If I go back to NA, it will likely be at a lower dose, < 600 mg/d, probably something closer to 60mg/d, so there should be less of a flush. How much that will impact NAD, we'll see,
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 okay I'll very much be looking forward to those results. That would be awesome if we could boost NAD without so much of a flush. Lol I tried to split a capsule put some in a drink and while I was drinking it somehow I inhaled some of the B3. Man you do not want to inhale that stuff!
i appreciate this but I can get flushing at 50mg! I will try again to work up slowly. if anyone has advice to counter flushing please reply with it
I'll be curious to see if you are able to increase your DHEA levels. My guess is no since I think your regime qualifies as being calorie restricted and this seems to down regulated growth pathways, but I would love to be proven wrong.
Not being able to increase it is a possible outcome. Instead of CR, my high-fiber diet could be the DHEA-S issue, but one step at a time. I'll try all the options (further increasing NAD, increasing cholesterol, ways to affect sulfation) before giving up and supplementing with DHEA, though.
So Niacin gave better results than NMN? But I thought Niacin was metabolized into a toxic chemical, which causes an allergic reaction? Does it also give the mood boost of NMN?
In terms of higher NAD, yep. Niacin did cause flushing, no mood boost in my situation.
I'm 76 years old, I supplanted with 1000mg of nmn, 1000mg of niacin, 600mg of nr, and CD 38 surpresers, apigenin 1000mg, quercetin 1000mg, my nad level was 119 um.
That's great, but as we'll see in an upcoming video, high-dose niacin may have increased my epigenetic pace of aging, with no major effect on other biomarkers. Have you measured DunedinPACE?
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Don't know what DunedinPACE is, my thinking is the higher NAD the better, I also take 5grams of TMG to protect my methyl groups.