I'm reminded of that guy in the comments of the Fluidic Space video, who theorized that Fluidic Space might be part of the internal anatomy of an incomprehensibly immense life form, with Species 8472 serving as its immuno response to intruders.
That'd make Voyager's foray into fluidic space a bit like the plot of _Fantastic Voyage_ (1966), where a submarine crew was shrunk to microscopic size and sent into the body of an injured scientist to repair his brain. Only not trying to repair anything.
That would indeed be an insane, cosmic horroresque kind of twist. I like it so far. It would also explain why Species 8472 claims that nobody else lives there. Unfortunately it doesn't explain their attempts to infiltrate Starfleet, but I still like the concept. Imagine lifeforms like the giant space amoeba from TOS being natural enemies of fluidic space, as a potential source of infection. The unknown origin of most cosmozoans could also be worked into this theory. There might be a part of the Multiverse that operates as a colossal cosmic ocean which gives rise to all sorts of universe-scaled cosmic monstrosities, of which fluidic space might be one of. It might also be a point of origin of lesser cosmic creatures that as cosmozoans might slip in between the cracks between the universes and show up as spaceborne lifeforms, which might also be harmful to realities like fluidic space. It might be fascinating to see Species 8472 battle against cosmozoans in fluidic space and revealing that they are like white blood cells, trying to keep their home-realm clean. They may have seen the Borg as a mere infection and nothing more and only wanted to cleanse the Milky Way in order to prevent further incursions and therefore infections.
@Streifi Yeah, I think the theory only really works if you ignore their appearances after "Scorpion", because it seems like it's more a thing that was thought up in hindsight.
On the origin of the Cosmozoa, I would suggest an alternative. The galaxy is Big and Old. And as densely populated as Star Trek's Milky Way is, and seems to always have been, there must have been thousands of civilizations that: - Developed organic technology - Created organisms that could, through chance or design, survive independently, reproduce and evolve. - Existed a minimum of, say, 50 000 000 years ago. (Number pulled out of my ass, but Cosmozoa are almost all organisms that live and reproduce sloooowly.) Any number of Cosmozoa could be the distant descendants of someone's lawn mower or orbital signal beacon. Perhaps from a particularly resilient microorganism created to assist with terraforming worlds, somehow drifting into space from its intended world and carried on the solar wind to neighboring planets where it was sometimes able to find a survivable environment and start the process all over. (This option comes with the bonus of sleeping under the rug the somewhat silly issue of there being so many worlds, even barren rocks, with a 80/20-ish% nitrogen/oxygen atmosphere. "Alien microbugs did it millions of years ago. Stop asking.")
8472 didn't need to adapt to anything, they already had all the needed upgrades, until Voyager came along. The Doctor said it best: "everything is rejected instantly" when he tried to use even a hypospray to relive Harry Kim's pain from 8472's infection.
I like the idea of it just getting stronger and more powerful the older the ship gets, until it basically gets too large for it's systems to support anymore, like a lobster. That's kind of a great idea for a bioship.
The Liir in sword of the Stars have that issue. Most elders just die under their own weight. (Spoilers) The exception are the Sul'ka, who telepathically enslave their people so they make them a space suit and they can escape gravity. And keep growing.
@@blackc1479 That's what I was thinking of-that the other class is just an ancient form of them. In fact, it's possible that they split off via fission or lose large amounts of biomass through the transmuter core when they get too old and such, either reverting-or streight up swelling up with loads of little embryonic sprouts before bursting in a reproductive frenzy-leaving several thousand new juveniles behind to continue the cycle.
I was about to make a comment to this regard. Then again, both the Shadows and the Vorlon began with ships simular to those found in the Federation, but continued developing their technololgy to incorperate more and more biological material. The Undine seem to have started off using biotech to begin with, forgoing any 'metally' bits. Bit more like the Yuuzang Vong, from Star Wars Legends, I guess?
I'm ok with calling them Undine. It beats the creative designation the Borg came up with. When Voyager encountered them at that fake Starfleet HQ it would have been a great time to ask their name.
@@sizanogreen9900Thinking about it; maybe it was a stroke of 'tactical genius' going with the human & cetacean homeworld as the HQ of Starfleet/The Federation - no alien enemy is going to believe such an important planet to the quadrant would just be called "dirt" in dozens of it's resident's languages.
In one of the books, Janeway does indeed ask what they should be referred to as. They didn't seem to understand what she meant by her question, but since they had access to Starfleet's database, one of them told her the best analogy they could come up with was to call them "The Groundskeepers."
Single pilot... yes. Connected... no. Not physically anyway, but mental connectivity is very likely. On the other hand. Moya could very well fly on her own without a pilot. Somehow I doubt that the 8472 bioship can do that as well.
@@UGNAvalon yep. They're also grown, not built. Though going by that one episode of Atlantis, it suggests that a single wraith volunteer (or 'lucky' human) is the 'seed' for that wraith ship. It's a shame the show never outright stated the true origin of the Wraith, and the books that continued the series' 'canon' storyline suggested the first Wraith were the subject of Lantean eugenics experiements who rebelled and escaped.
I'm surprised we haven't seen more bioships in Star Trek other than this ship and Tin Man. We came close with bioneural gel packs in ships post-2371, but no fully "grown" ship.
I guess bioships aren't that common in _Trek_ . For that matter, in _Honkai_ Star Rail_ the Xianzhou Alliance uses bioships, including their giant world ships.
Just had a thought on it's ability to shrug off tractor beams. What if it shed? It's organic, so the outer layers of the hull simply shed the cells a tractor beam has grabbed. The beam is actually working, but the bioship is just releasing the outer layer that the beam has grabbed onto, until it either runs out of matter to regenerate the hull, or the opponent gets annoyed and stops using the tractor.
Absolutely fascinating ships, though I wonder how they were able to fly in our empty space so well. I actually wonder if their species had an incident where they entered our world ages ago and learned to adapt their ships "Just in case", or if their ships were really that good at adapting, as changing from liquid to solid seems really wild to me. Great episode!
These ships remind me of the "Night's Dawn Trilogy" by Peter F. Hamilton, specifically in that they share biological markers/"DNA" with their creators. Very simply put, humanity has spread across vast areas of the galaxy, and has experienced a technological and ideological split. One half embraced biotech, using it for pretty much everything including communication, habitats and spaceships. The other half, for various reasons, decided that biotech is gross, and stuck with "regular" tech - albeit very advanced. In the biotech faction, being a ship's captain is essentially heriditary. The ship is gestated at the same time as the embryo that will eventually become the captain, from the same genetic basis (though obviously with some alterations). They are basically siblings. They also share a telepathic connection, etc etc.
The captain being grown basically inside the ship as it grew in space was really cool. Hell, _everything_ about the Edenists were cool. If you haven't already, be sure to read _A Second Chance at Eden._ It's a short story collection, all set in that same universe. One of the stories takes place when the split between the Edenists and the rest of humanity occurs. _The Confederation Handbook_ is also worth reading, but it's basically just a compilation of facts about the universe.
I was obsessed with them after getting Armada 2. Wish there had been an actual campaign for them instead of just a tutorial mission.
5 днів тому
They were quite OP in that game, you could exploit their Behemoths to teleport whole fleets of ships anywhere on the maps. There is a reason why this was generally banned in multiplayer 😁
Love how around 1999/2000 both Star Wars and Star Trek introduced very powerful new enemies that used living ship, Star Trek had species 8472 and Star Wars had the yuuzan vong
The nature of this ship makes me wonder if it actually has to go through "exercise" to be able to do the feats that it accomplishments, like does a younger ship need to go through special training and exercise before can get to warp 9. Or is it just a matter of growing older?...
Thank you so much for your videos. Your knowledge and wonderful editing remind me of a video version of the old Marvel trading cards that I got as a child. All the stats and lore are amazing!
My only issue with the Undine/8472 is the fact that they're almost impossible to have evolved naturally, not because of where they come from, but because they have bilateral symmetry above the waist, and tri-lateral below it, that's just such an unlikely combination of features to evolve. There is a reason why basically all life on Earth has bilateral symmetry, it's because our earliest acestors evolved that way. Things like starfish are very rare on Earth because of this. But I can't think of a single animal extant or extinct that has a mixture of symmetries. I really wish they had committed to the tri-lateral symmetry and given them three eyes, three arms etc.
Their ships probably haven't just evolved either. They are likely bio-engineered and if they can do that, they can modify themselves. Like giving themselves a third leg, for whatever reason. Or perhaps the whole species is bio-engineered. Like the organic counterpart to some robot army, that outlived their creators.
They do apparently have six genders/sexes though, according to that one female Undine Chakotay hooked up with briefly. So they have male, female and four other 'unknowns'
I like the idea that all the Undine bioship classes we see in STO started as the Nicor and just grew to become larger cruisers and eventually even dreadnoughts.
There are so many issues with 8472. For example, if they evolved in fluidic space, why then do they have legs and not fins or something else. I like to think they were engineered like the jem'hadar.
one of the eu novels did show they have fins in fluidic space. one of the multiverse novels showed that traveling back and forth to non fluidic space caused problem for them namely replicating them which caused for lack of a better word factions to be created. they also went to other time lines.
What if Undines aren't "a" species. The Portuguese Man-o-war is composed of a multitude of individual species. What if each Undine is its own _entire ecosystem_ of a billion species and retroviruses genetically altering themselves. The source of their regeneration and adaptation and such is not evolving like pokemon into stronger forms in the way a layman uses the term evolve to talk about their gains from cardio. They are ACTUALLY evolving in realtime, the component species that make up any individual Undine mutating, some going extinct, new ones branching and developing. Getting hit by a phaser blast may temporarily harm them and kill all their dinosaurs, but then they're made of birds and mammals after, metaphorically speaking, and now you're right hosed. And they can infect each other with those changes to pass on their adaptations, and fluidic space is the medium for them to communicate globally, their internet made up of everyone's organic records. When they touch you, you get infected, which is what happens to several Voyager crew.
... I wonder if fluidic space is somehow connected to the mycelial network? They are both bio-organic realms seemingly "parallel" to our own - perhaps the spores grow in one layer of reality, with "roots" drawing fluid from the other? Pure speculation, and I realise many would rather ignore Disco entirely.
Its all fun and nice, but i really disliked how energy discharges didnt "burn" the fluidic space medium. Its obvious how much strain it would have put on the shows budget, but it would have been nice and add an actual depth and consequences and a real reason of their hostility.
The bioship from 8472 also has some similarities to the Lexx from the Lexx tv show. Both are bio mechanical hybrids fitted with weapons of mass destruction with exception that the Lexx was part insect and not aquatic in nature and Lexx although a bit dumb at times was sentient and could talk and even on occasion could act independently. My sister is a big fan of that rather peculiar sci fi series.
@@QuantumNova lol continue on pretending in your little world. Its an established fact. JMS himself said the Star Trek Universe is far more technologically advanced than the B5 universe that he wanted it that way. That is because Star Trek handwaves so many things with technobabble that it doesn't seem realistic. Also from on screen we can see the difference. Not all Vorlons are Telepathic, their ships are not completely organic, it takes a ship miles long to destroy a planet, no shields, no warp (this is massive) and no ability to control time dilation thus limiting speeds. 8472 have none of those issues. There is a massive more on screen that proves it as well.
@@jacara1981 I'm not pretending anything. The Vorlons are nearly a billion years old and 'can' defeat the Shadows who are older than them. A basic Vorlon fighter has the same firepower as the 8472 ship in this video. Same weapon exact weapon. The Vorlons have access to Quantum space and 3rd Space, That allows nearly instantaneous space travel. Vorlon armor and force fields are adaptive. This means energy weapons of all kinds will eventually become useless against them. Shadow death rays could not defeat the forcefields at full power. Those same weapons could cut a small moon in half with one sweep. Vorlon weapons are more power than that! Shadow and Vorlon weapons use 'hyperspace tap '. This means their weapons draw energy from hyperspace - allowing extreme firepower & unlimited energy. Unlike star trek, Vorlon forcefields never go offline or down. Weapon must exceed its power to do damage. Like I said, you have no idea what you're talking about .
So that's who the Udeen are, they've been getting mentioned a lot on that quest chain I've been following recently and something resembling a bioship took Sela's Scimitar before I logged out.
Just note Species 8472 has been reconned. They can't really blow up a planet with 8 frigates like shown in Voyager. They require a large ship called a 'Undine Planet Killer'. It was approve by CBS / Paramount. A little bit of a nerf there, but there where we stand officially. The thing with the 8 frigates doing a 'death star' beam was fluke at destroying a planet. STO talks about in the weapon description.
I've noticed some interesting parallels in their living ships and the design of V'GER's vessel. I'm thinking this was more convergent ideas rather than contact, because it was implied that V'GER could not conceive of the idea of Fluidic Space, let alone how to get there. Granted, V'GER left this reality roughly 100 of our years before Species 8472 showed up, and who knows how long it takes them to develop any of their bio-tech?
They did seem to live to very advanced ages. So it is likely the ships would at least match that. Your ship growing old in the same way you do would be interesting.
Hi Rick all here...id love a long ass lore video to lie in bed and drift of to sleep to due to your relaxing narrating voice.. wee..i..live in hope..even reading a book ..with no animation or such .. 🙄
0:48 I thought Discover even decided to use the name Undine for Species 8472, somewhere in season 4? 6:44 I doubt the Warp Core would actually be a core. Instead the Matter/Anti-matter reaction would likely happen much the same way our bodies consume oxygen, threw out its entire cellular structure of the ship. Any Magnetic containment would then not have to use massive magnets nor huge storage tanks, but rather be microscopically spread out within its bioships body.
The Vorlon ships were representative of their original biological form and were made to order for each individual pilot; Vorlons were evolved, seemingly, from the contemporaneous Humboldt Squid of Earth's oceans. Here Star Trek, like Deep Space Nine, has just altered its B5 equivalent enough to not be sued for intellectual plagiarism.
They need to do a tv show like picard but about sisko just called sisko he comes back from the temple and its a desperate fight to stop the enternal enermy that's taken possession of gal du kat par wraith or something it could be epic
Certifiably... Ingame. Could you possibly mine your sources to find out what the hell the Play-Doh things in the background of that shot are supposed to be. I mean, in the Admiral Hale games, they theorized to be coral or the Undine equivalent. If you would mind confirming this for us, I for one would appreciate it.
In sto, its fluidic spaces land masses. Its molecular structure is akin to coral, not entirely sure if the undine live in/or on them, though hopes this helps
@@LoneWolf0397 More than I knew a minute ago. I watch STO, as I mentioned Admiral Hale's games he commanded the Armitage entering fluidic space, even allied with the Undine to get rid of the Borg Kingdom infestation and am looking forward to whatever else Certifiably Ingame brings out with his ego alter!
@@LoneWolf0397 I'm hoping that STO brings out some multi-versal level threat that requires all the realities, or dimensions?, to unite to kick some arse! Now that would be worth watching: Can you imagine a fleet so big it could deckplate a solar system!
@@Cauin450 there was recently the borg multiversal threat and the tfo to get the typhoon ship which is absolutely beautiful by the way 🤣 or did you want something bigger???
i could only imagine a full grown and overgrown version of this ship, and it is not pretty, probably where the larvae form is produced from or from those huge nerve like structures in fluidic space, kinda gives me the creeps and it did digested one of the borg it encased the drone like how something would be swallowed and gross, gross and if the fluidic space did turn out to be a literal giga-fauna, and the space is the internal fluids and the Undine are like the antibodies, gotta have a true explanation of those huge braincell beings from classic trek came from, and the giant virus cells too id be nauseous if that is all true well stranger things do happen in Star Trek like the 10 c being mega house flies in space makes you wonder what else is lying in wait out there.
"We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is fu--" KaBOOM!!!
I'm reminded of that guy in the comments of the Fluidic Space video, who theorized that Fluidic Space might be part of the internal anatomy of an incomprehensibly immense life form, with Species 8472 serving as its immuno response to intruders.
I like this idea! A very Lovecraftian type thought.
That'd make Voyager's foray into fluidic space a bit like the plot of _Fantastic Voyage_ (1966), where a submarine crew was shrunk to microscopic size and sent into the body of an injured scientist to repair his brain. Only not trying to repair anything.
That would indeed be an insane, cosmic horroresque kind of twist. I like it so far. It would also explain why Species 8472 claims that nobody else lives there. Unfortunately it doesn't explain their attempts to infiltrate Starfleet, but I still like the concept. Imagine lifeforms like the giant space amoeba from TOS being natural enemies of fluidic space, as a potential source of infection. The unknown origin of most cosmozoans could also be worked into this theory.
There might be a part of the Multiverse that operates as a colossal cosmic ocean which gives rise to all sorts of universe-scaled cosmic monstrosities, of which fluidic space might be one of. It might also be a point of origin of lesser cosmic creatures that as cosmozoans might slip in between the cracks between the universes and show up as spaceborne lifeforms, which might also be harmful to realities like fluidic space.
It might be fascinating to see Species 8472 battle against cosmozoans in fluidic space and revealing that they are like white blood cells, trying to keep their home-realm clean. They may have seen the Borg as a mere infection and nothing more and only wanted to cleanse the Milky Way in order to prevent further incursions and therefore infections.
@Streifi Yeah, I think the theory only really works if you ignore their appearances after "Scorpion", because it seems like it's more a thing that was thought up in hindsight.
On the origin of the Cosmozoa, I would suggest an alternative.
The galaxy is Big and Old. And as densely populated as Star Trek's Milky Way is, and seems to always have been, there must have been thousands of civilizations that:
- Developed organic technology
- Created organisms that could, through chance or design, survive independently, reproduce and evolve.
- Existed a minimum of, say, 50 000 000 years ago. (Number pulled out of my ass, but Cosmozoa are almost all organisms that live and reproduce sloooowly.)
Any number of Cosmozoa could be the distant descendants of someone's lawn mower or orbital signal beacon.
Perhaps from a particularly resilient microorganism created to assist with terraforming worlds, somehow drifting into space from its intended world and carried on the solar wind to neighboring planets where it was sometimes able to find a survivable environment and start the process all over.
(This option comes with the bonus of sleeping under the rug the somewhat silly issue of there being so many worlds, even barren rocks, with a 80/20-ish% nitrogen/oxygen atmosphere. "Alien microbugs did it millions of years ago. Stop asking.")
8472 didn't need to adapt to anything, they already had all the needed upgrades, until Voyager came along. The Doctor said it best: "everything is rejected instantly" when he tried to use even a hypospray to relive Harry Kim's pain from 8472's infection.
I like the idea of it just getting stronger and more powerful the older the ship gets, until it basically gets too large for it's systems to support anymore, like a lobster. That's kind of a great idea for a bioship.
Litelary new stellaris dlc but you just clon natural space fauna change it gen and clone full power version or young and wait for it to growth
The Liir in sword of the Stars have that issue.
Most elders just die under their own weight.
(Spoilers)
The exception are the Sul'ka, who telepathically enslave their people so they make them a space suit and they can escape gravity. And keep growing.
Or maybe once it reaches a certain age/size/power level, it undergoes a metamorphosis into a larger more powerful class?
@@blackc1479 That's what I was thinking of-that the other class is just an ancient form of them.
In fact, it's possible that they split off via fission or lose large amounts of biomass through the transmuter core when they get too old and such, either reverting-or streight up swelling up with loads of little embryonic sprouts before bursting in a reproductive frenzy-leaving several thousand new juveniles behind to continue the cycle.
@@blackc1479maybe a metamorphosis into a type of spacestation the lays "eggs" that hatch into the bioships.
Their structural perfection is matched only by their hostility.
Why looks a lot Like to B5 Vorlon/Shadow Bioships ????....
Because they're all from the Star Wars Universe
They always seemed like refugees from the B5 universe to me!
It's always reminded me of the Vorlons too.
I was about to make a comment to this regard. Then again, both the Shadows and the Vorlon began with ships simular to those found in the Federation, but continued developing their technololgy to incorperate more and more biological material. The Undine seem to have started off using biotech to begin with, forgoing any 'metally' bits. Bit more like the Yuuzang Vong, from Star Wars Legends, I guess?
Michael J Straczynski, basically created created the DS9 concept, and also did a lot of work on Babylon 5 too
yuuzhan vong: It's good to finally meet someone with common sense and believe this conversation. We'll be beneficial for both of us
Tyranids: *foooooooood...*
Last time I was this early to a Certifiably Ingamame video USS Voyager was still in the Delta Quadrant...
lol
I'm ok with calling them Undine. It beats the creative designation the Borg came up with. When Voyager encountered them at that fake Starfleet HQ it would have been a great time to ask their name.
Also guarantees that their home world if it exists as a place is named "Undine Prime" or something along those lines:P
@@sizanogreen9900Thinking about it; maybe it was a stroke of 'tactical genius' going with the human & cetacean homeworld as the HQ of Starfleet/The Federation - no alien enemy is going to believe such an important planet to the quadrant would just be called "dirt" in dozens of it's resident's languages.
In one of the books, Janeway does indeed ask what they should be referred to as. They didn't seem to understand what she meant by her question, but since they had access to Starfleet's database, one of them told her the best analogy they could come up with was to call them "The Groundskeepers."
Single pilot connected to the ship, all organic in nature? It's like Moya!
Single pilot... yes. Connected... no. Not physically anyway, but mental connectivity is very likely. On the other hand. Moya could very well fly on her own without a pilot. Somehow I doubt that the 8472 bioship can do that as well.
A little more shooty than Moya, so maybe more like Talon.
Aren’t Wraith hive ships technically capable of being piloted by one person? 🤔
@@UGNAvalon yep. They're also grown, not built. Though going by that one episode of Atlantis, it suggests that a single wraith volunteer (or 'lucky' human) is the 'seed' for that wraith ship. It's a shame the show never outright stated the true origin of the Wraith, and the books that continued the series' 'canon' storyline suggested the first Wraith were the subject of Lantean eugenics experiements who rebelled and escaped.
Or like a Shadow vessel...
The Leviathan from farscape is my favorite bioship, but this is pretty cool.. esp coming from Voyager, a show that is VERY RARELY cool.
Came here to sau ðe same þing lol. Haven't watched Farscape in a while ðo.
I'm surprised we haven't seen more bioships in Star Trek other than this ship and Tin Man.
We came close with bioneural gel packs in ships post-2371, but no fully "grown" ship.
I remember hearing somewhere that the Breen used bio-ships too.
I guess bioships aren't that common in _Trek_ . For that matter, in _Honkai_ Star Rail_ the Xianzhou Alliance uses bioships, including their giant world ships.
IIRC the Enterprise J was a bioship (it being implied or stated that 26th century construction involved "growing" their vessels).
B5 had that covered years before. These resemble Vorlon tech...
Just had a thought on it's ability to shrug off tractor beams. What if it shed? It's organic, so the outer layers of the hull simply shed the cells a tractor beam has grabbed. The beam is actually working, but the bioship is just releasing the outer layer that the beam has grabbed onto, until it either runs out of matter to regenerate the hull, or the opponent gets annoyed and stops using the tractor.
Perhaps it's similar to ablative armor, then?
Absolutely fascinating ships, though I wonder how they were able to fly in our empty space so well. I actually wonder if their species had an incident where they entered our world ages ago and learned to adapt their ships "Just in case", or if their ships were really that good at adapting, as changing from liquid to solid seems really wild to me.
Great episode!
These ships remind me of the "Night's Dawn Trilogy" by Peter F. Hamilton, specifically in that they share biological markers/"DNA" with their creators.
Very simply put, humanity has spread across vast areas of the galaxy, and has experienced a technological and ideological split.
One half embraced biotech, using it for pretty much everything including communication, habitats and spaceships.
The other half, for various reasons, decided that biotech is gross, and stuck with "regular" tech - albeit very advanced.
In the biotech faction, being a ship's captain is essentially heriditary. The ship is gestated at the same time as the embryo that will eventually become the captain, from the same genetic basis (though obviously with some alterations). They are basically siblings. They also share a telepathic connection, etc etc.
The captain being grown basically inside the ship as it grew in space was really cool. Hell, _everything_ about the Edenists were cool. If you haven't already, be sure to read _A Second Chance at Eden._ It's a short story collection, all set in that same universe. One of the stories takes place when the split between the Edenists and the rest of humanity occurs. _The Confederation Handbook_ is also worth reading, but it's basically just a compilation of facts about the universe.
Why are you only getting to this ship now
Imgame: only just got the ship in STO now
Me: fair nuff, have fun with it
Reminds me of a Vorlon ship from B5
Bingo.
Aw dang, I thought you were covering B5 for a minute.
Same thing 😅
I was obsessed with them after getting Armada 2. Wish there had been an actual campaign for them instead of just a tutorial mission.
They were quite OP in that game, you could exploit their Behemoths to teleport whole fleets of ships anywhere on the maps. There is a reason why this was generally banned in multiplayer 😁
A video on how life could theoretically evolve in space could be interesting.
I wonder if Moya ( Farscape ) would be able to survive in Fluidic Space.
Respect and keep up the epic work.
A damaged Moya could exist submerged, so probably.
Love how around 1999/2000 both Star Wars and Star Trek introduced very powerful new enemies that used living ship, Star Trek had species 8472 and Star Wars had the yuuzan vong
And Wing Commander Prophecy introduced the Nephilim with their own bioships.
The nature of this ship makes me wonder if it actually has to go through "exercise" to be able to do the feats that it accomplishments, like does a younger ship need to go through special training and exercise before can get to warp 9. Or is it just a matter of growing older?...
Thank you so much for your videos. Your knowledge and wonderful editing remind me of a video version of the old Marvel trading cards that I got as a child. All the stats and lore are amazing!
“The weak will perish” - Undine
My only issue with the Undine/8472 is the fact that they're almost impossible to have evolved naturally, not because of where they come from, but because they have bilateral symmetry above the waist, and tri-lateral below it, that's just such an unlikely combination of features to evolve.
There is a reason why basically all life on Earth has bilateral symmetry, it's because our earliest acestors evolved that way. Things like starfish are very rare on Earth because of this. But I can't think of a single animal extant or extinct that has a mixture of symmetries.
I really wish they had committed to the tri-lateral symmetry and given them three eyes, three arms etc.
Yeah, three eyes with one on each side of a three-sided head would've been really cool.
Their ships probably haven't just evolved either. They are likely bio-engineered and if they can do that, they can modify themselves. Like giving themselves a third leg, for whatever reason. Or perhaps the whole species is bio-engineered. Like the organic counterpart to some robot army, that outlived their creators.
They do apparently have six genders/sexes though, according to that one female Undine Chakotay hooked up with briefly. So they have male, female and four other 'unknowns'
Could be a close mutalistic relationship between two species.
Pretty much every tubular organism on earth uses tri or pentasymmetry in their bodyplans
you would think that the federation and species 8472 with a common enemy in the borg would form an alliance.
Enemy of my enemy isnt necessarily my friend
Star Trek: Squiggly Decks
Probably one of if not the most OP vessel's in all of Sci-fi.
Which leads into the point that most sci-fi vessels are vastly underpowered;)
I would often mix up the forward and aft ends of my Nicor. Using the focusing array ability was kind of fun.
If I ever knew the tractor beam trick, I had forgotten about it. Interesting but, more importantly, very useful when fighting the Borg!
Every time I hear Bioship. I can't help but imagine no pleasant new ship smell.😅
I like the idea that all the Undine bioship classes we see in STO started as the Nicor and just grew to become larger cruisers and eventually even dreadnoughts.
3:40 you can make a cake out of this
With mint frosting? 😅
do not eat the bioship, we are not responsible for any indigestion that may occur
There are so many issues with 8472. For example, if they evolved in fluidic space, why then do they have legs and not fins or something else. I like to think they were engineered like the jem'hadar.
one of the eu novels did show they have fins in fluidic space. one of the multiverse novels showed that traveling back and forth to non fluidic space caused problem for them namely replicating them which caused for lack of a better word factions to be created. they also went to other time lines.
"Speed of thought" is neural conduction velocity which is about 50 to 70 meters per second.
New organism is present. Evolving.
What if Undines aren't "a" species. The Portuguese Man-o-war is composed of a multitude of individual species. What if each Undine is its own _entire ecosystem_ of a billion species and retroviruses genetically altering themselves. The source of their regeneration and adaptation and such is not evolving like pokemon into stronger forms in the way a layman uses the term evolve to talk about their gains from cardio. They are ACTUALLY evolving in realtime, the component species that make up any individual Undine mutating, some going extinct, new ones branching and developing. Getting hit by a phaser blast may temporarily harm them and kill all their dinosaurs, but then they're made of birds and mammals after, metaphorically speaking, and now you're right hosed. And they can infect each other with those changes to pass on their adaptations, and fluidic space is the medium for them to communicate globally, their internet made up of everyone's organic records. When they touch you, you get infected, which is what happens to several Voyager crew.
Brilliant design. Second best bioship after thn Wraith hives
Pls do an episode about the enterprise XCV 330
... I wonder if fluidic space is somehow connected to the mycelial network? They are both bio-organic realms seemingly "parallel" to our own - perhaps the spores grow in one layer of reality, with "roots" drawing fluid from the other?
Pure speculation, and I realise many would rather ignore Disco entirely.
Its all fun and nice, but i really disliked how energy discharges didnt "burn" the fluidic space medium. Its obvious how much strain it would have put on the shows budget, but it would have been nice and add an actual depth and consequences and a real reason of their hostility.
Everything involving 8472 has insane amounts of technobable. Which, given how Trek operates, is impressive.
Or do they change class/type as they age?
A very good video 👍🏻
Truly alien. Love this ship!
The bioship from 8472 also has some similarities to the Lexx from the Lexx tv show. Both are bio mechanical hybrids fitted with weapons of mass destruction with exception that the Lexx was part insect and not aquatic in nature and Lexx although a bit dumb at times was sentient and could talk and even on occasion could act independently. My sister is a big fan of that rather peculiar sci fi series.
Looks oddly like a B5 Drakh fighter ship
I can kinda see that. Of course, the Drakh fighters weren't alive.
Always reminded me of the Vorlons, but more advanced.
You mean less advanced. The Vorlons would kick their teeth in.
@@QuantumNova Vorlons area massively less advanced and less powwerful that 8472. They are not even in the same ballpark.
@@jacara1981 So you absolutely know nothing about the Vorlons. Okay, I understand. No problem.
@@QuantumNova lol continue on pretending in your little world. Its an established fact. JMS himself said the Star Trek Universe is far more technologically advanced than the B5 universe that he wanted it that way. That is because Star Trek handwaves so many things with technobabble that it doesn't seem realistic. Also from on screen we can see the difference.
Not all Vorlons are Telepathic, their ships are not completely organic, it takes a ship miles long to destroy a planet, no shields, no warp (this is massive) and no ability to control time dilation thus limiting speeds.
8472 have none of those issues. There is a massive more on screen that proves it as well.
@@jacara1981 I'm not pretending anything. The Vorlons are nearly a billion years old and 'can' defeat the Shadows who are older than them. A basic Vorlon fighter has the same firepower as the 8472 ship in this video. Same weapon exact weapon.
The Vorlons have access to Quantum space and 3rd Space, That allows nearly instantaneous space travel. Vorlon armor and force fields are adaptive. This means energy weapons of all kinds will eventually become useless against them.
Shadow death rays could not defeat the forcefields at full power. Those same weapons could cut a small moon in half with one sweep. Vorlon weapons are more power than that! Shadow and Vorlon weapons use 'hyperspace tap '. This means their weapons draw energy from hyperspace - allowing extreme firepower & unlimited energy.
Unlike star trek, Vorlon forcefields never go offline or down. Weapon must exceed its power to do damage. Like I said, you have no idea what you're talking about .
Great video. I'd like to learn more about the focusing ship. A future video perhaps?
First thing I wondered imagining a fluid space was the pressure. Need to do some research
What if yuuzhan vong (from star wars ) invaded the star trek Galaxy
Party time and fireworks 😅
Neat!!
So that's who the Udeen are, they've been getting mentioned a lot on that quest chain I've been following recently and something resembling a bioship took Sela's Scimitar before I logged out.
Maybe they'll get along with the Thargoids
Reminded me of Vorlon ships from Babylon 5. Looks like I'm not the only one lol
I am strongly reminded of the Shadow and Vorlon ships, to be honest.
The Biological play of 3's with species 8472 is very similar to that of the creatures in John Christopher's "The Tripods".
Just note Species 8472 has been reconned. They can't really blow up a planet with 8 frigates like shown in Voyager. They require a large ship called a 'Undine Planet Killer'. It was approve by CBS / Paramount. A little bit of a nerf there, but there where we stand officially. The thing with the 8 frigates doing a 'death star' beam was fluke at destroying a planet. STO talks about in the weapon description.
I've noticed some interesting parallels in their living ships and the design of V'GER's vessel. I'm thinking this was more convergent ideas rather than contact, because it was implied that V'GER could not conceive of the idea of Fluidic Space, let alone how to get there. Granted, V'GER left this reality roughly 100 of our years before Species 8472 showed up, and who knows how long it takes them to develop any of their bio-tech?
How do their stars work if their, "space" is liquid matter? Their stars burn underwater?!
Voyager should have dove deeper into this new threat there’s still a lot we don’t know about them far as tv shows
They did seem to live to very advanced ages. So it is likely the ships would at least match that. Your ship growing old in the same way you do would be interesting.
Wait, is that V'ger in the background at timestamp 9:11?
From Reality, to Lovecraft, to this.
In Star Trek Online's Beta canon, yes, as they get older they get more powerful,. Undine Planet Killers being the ultimate form.
Kinda reminds me of vorlon vessels in b5
The Undine remind me of the Martians from war of the worlds.
Remarkably similar to B5 vorlon bio ship
I can see a more bulbous ship attached to a cube. It'd look rather unsettling, like a crazy infection.
Hi Rick all here...id love a long ass lore video to lie in bed and drift of to sleep to due to your relaxing narrating voice.. wee..i..live in hope..even reading a book ..with no animation or such .. 🙄
Couldn’t this have been a Bestiary episode as well?
Very Vorlan inspired.
0:48 I thought Discover even decided to use the name Undine for Species 8472, somewhere in season 4?
6:44 I doubt the Warp Core would actually be a core. Instead the Matter/Anti-matter reaction would likely happen much the same way our bodies consume oxygen, threw out its entire cellular structure of the ship. Any Magnetic containment would then not have to use massive magnets nor huge storage tanks, but rather be microscopically spread out within its bioships body.
Any chance you could do a video on the Titan class science destroyer from STO it’s my favorite and I’d love to learn more about it.
SPACE!!!
The Vorlon ships were representative of their original biological form and were made to order for each individual pilot; Vorlons were evolved, seemingly, from the contemporaneous Humboldt Squid of Earth's oceans. Here Star Trek, like Deep Space Nine, has just altered its B5 equivalent enough to not be sued for intellectual plagiarism.
Nicors: They are all Kosh.
They need to do a tv show like picard but about sisko just called sisko he comes back from the temple and its a desperate fight to stop the enternal enermy that's taken possession of gal du kat par wraith or something it could be epic
reminds me of the Kha,ak obliterator from the X game series
There's a 8472 as a Starfleet officer in Lower Decks if I'm not mistaken.
one question that was never asked, are the ships conscious? 8472 ate telipactic so are the ships alive?
vorlon and shadow child
Certifiably... Ingame. Could you possibly mine your sources to find out what the hell the Play-Doh things in the background of that shot are supposed to be. I mean, in the Admiral Hale games, they theorized to be coral or the Undine equivalent.
If you would mind confirming this for us, I for one would appreciate it.
In sto, its fluidic spaces land masses. Its molecular structure is akin to coral, not entirely sure if the undine live in/or on them, though hopes this helps
@@LoneWolf0397 More than I knew a minute ago. I watch STO, as I mentioned Admiral Hale's games he commanded the Armitage entering fluidic space, even allied with the Undine to get rid of the Borg Kingdom infestation and am looking forward to whatever else Certifiably Ingame brings out with his ego alter!
@@Cauin450 no worries if theres anything else your curious about lemme know 😄
@@LoneWolf0397 I'm hoping that STO brings out some multi-versal level threat that requires all the realities, or dimensions?, to unite to kick some arse! Now that would be worth watching: Can you imagine a fleet so big it could deckplate a solar system!
@@Cauin450 there was recently the borg multiversal threat and the tfo to get the typhoon ship which is absolutely beautiful by the way 🤣 or did you want something bigger???
i have the nikor in STO :P
i could only imagine a full grown and overgrown version of this ship, and it is not pretty, probably where the larvae form is produced from or from those huge nerve like structures in fluidic space, kinda gives me the creeps and it did digested one of the borg it encased the drone like how something would be swallowed and gross, gross and if the fluidic space did turn out to be a literal giga-fauna, and the space is the internal fluids and the Undine are like the antibodies, gotta have a true explanation of those huge braincell beings from classic trek came from, and the giant virus cells too id be nauseous if that is all true well stranger things do happen in Star Trek like the 10 c being mega house flies in space makes you wonder what else is lying in wait out there.
The NyQuil class ship?
Hello Rick, this is All.
Always thought British name for a water demon was Fomorian.
May just just in Scotland.
What if Fluidic Space and Half Life's Xen are similar realms, 8472 are reminicent of both the more biotechy Xen inhabitants and the Combine.
"We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is fu--" KaBOOM!!!
Plasma-Enhanced Atomic Layer Deposition Reactor with In-Situ Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy for Atomic-Level Thin Film Characterization
I’ve always felt this ship belonged more in Babylon 5 more than Star Trek
first known as the vorlon
One word. Vorlons.
Species 8472 remind me of the Ant People.
Okay, nerd time: they are symmetrical. Just trilateral symmetry instead of our bilateral. 😁☕️
While you thank us for watching I thank you for being entertaining
It resembles a virus type. Infinitely small, and so infinitely big.
so the guy designed the ship in 1997 ...what after re-watching Babylon 5 and drawing a Vorlon ship with his left hand?
SCIENCE!!!
Guinan: Q sneezed fludic space.