Cool comparison. Seems like a legitimate weight saving going from the 350s to 240s. But those last few grams saved going from 240s to 180s seem like they were achieved mostly by doing things that will undoubtedly sacrifice service life and longevity. Also, hybrid ceramic bearings are terrible in practice because all the bumps you hit during your rides will cause the ultra-hard ceramic balls to make micro-indentations on the inner surfaces of the not-as-hard steel races and this will create more roughness and resistance over time, no matter how well you maintain them. Just a terrible idea, really.
Yeah our experience with ceramic and ceramic hybrid bearings echos this - they feel amazing when brand-new but quickly start to feel chunky even if they continue to spin. This tends to happen quite quickly on a mountain bike hub but take a lot longer (obviously) on a road bike -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels yep. Exactly my experience with CeramicSpeed bearings in my hubs, which are some of the most highly-regarded bearings in the industry. Though I do wonder why any of them are highly regarded. They feel amazing when new but truth be told, this is mostly from other tricks, like substituting oil for grease and using non-contact seals (which will even further reduce longevity). Why do companies continue with this bad idea when they and the consumer know that it’s a bad idea?
Excellent review. I have the DTSwiss 240 EXP and recently experienced an issue with the internal ratchet disengaging mid ride. DT Swiss are aware of this issue and apparently a batch was manufactured using ratchet that undergoes higher wear. While they will warrant this, are you able to post the EXP ratchet removal tool needed? I am looking to do all future servicing and was not sure of that tool. I understand this is different to the 350 model. Thanks
This is the tool you need for the EXP hubs: www.wheelworks.co.nz/shop-2/tool/hxtxxx00n8387s-dt-swiss-tool-dt-disassembly-tool-for-exp-star-ratchet-w20x1-hxtxxx00n8387s/
I'm looking for a 350 hub but in 36 holes version, and there is one : the dt swiss 350 "HYBRID" 🤣 does it really matter ? does it suit a gravel trekking bike (non electric) ?
@4:59, you say, "at wheelworks, we are big believers in J-bend spokes. We can build a stiffer more durable wheel than we can with J-bend." huh? given your comment about the 180s, I assume you mean you like j-bends better than straight pull, but I think there was a miscommunication.
Great video thanks! one question: Would it be possible to replace the hybrid ceramic bearings in the 180 with standard steel bearings if you wanted to? or are these non-standard bearing sizes? so not possible to find steel replacements? thanks!
Yes, absolutely. The bearing sizes used (15x24x5 and 15x26x7mm) are easy to get from either DT Swiss or other bearing makers in a high quality steel version ~Tristan
you didn't mention the main differences in the end caps. The 350 has no seals whereas the 180 & 240 have o ring seals in. Edit: I've just been told 350 hubs do in fact have o rings in the end caps - mine are 2016 so maybe they have changed since then.
I can't recall the 350 ever NOT having o-rings and I just took a look at a few of our hubs and they've all got them. Are you sure your orings didn't fall out? They can do that after the endcaps are removed a few times -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Here's my 350 hub end cap: ua-cam.com/video/-nC4C2BQD2c/v-deo.html . No o ring or anywhere an o ring to be. This was my front wheel end cap. My rear 350 does have o rings. So it seems that the 240s have o rings in both wheels end caps where as the 350 is only in the rear (for 15mm front / 12mm rear at least.)
@@45graham45 I understand now. Yes, the front hubs all use totally different systems of securing the endcaps. Many people don't ask questions about the front hubs so we didn't do a deep-dive on these but maybe we should? The 350 has the axle sit directly on the bearings so there is no space for o-rings. The 240 uses a different system where the axle goes all the way through the bearings and does have them. If you convert your hub to a 12mm through axle (for a road bike) then it will have o-rings on the endcaps :-)
The 180 hubs come on the carbon all mountain rims. Should I be concerned about the hub strength or durability due to its low weight and smaller bearings.
"Big believer in J-Bend spokes... can build a better wheel than you can with J-Bend"...... so now I'm confused. Which are better: J-Bend or Straightpull?
This topic probably deserves it's own video! J-bend hubs are better in every way and allow you to build a better wheelset if (and it's a big IF) you take the time and care but they're very labour intensive. If you're planning on building a lot of the same wheel then straight-pull hubs/spokes reduce the lacing and tensioning time considerably and therefore have a massive cost saving. This is the only reason that straight-pull has come about and why it remains - everything else they tell you is either marketing fluff or a straight up lie. -Tristan
It can be really mixed....many brands use 15x28x7mm bearings in their front hubs. Some like DT Swiss use 17mm in some hubs, and Hope uses 20mm bearings. -Tristan
Actually the first generation Hugi hubs, from before when DT Swiss purchased them, in 1998-ish used a single spring....so you could argue they copied themselves ;-) -Tristan
Would love to see a comparison between their new (recent?) Hybrid hubs vs the OG ones. I am a firm believer that the DT Swiss ratchet system is the most solid/abuse-proof system for high torque applications (like those exerted by full power (85+ Nm) eMTBs), in comparison to pawl-based hubs. Before the Hybrid hubs existed, I just replaced the ratchets (gears) for the steel ones. But aside from a steel freehub body and ratchets... are there any more differences? Are they just another "eBike specific" gimmick? Cheers mate.
The Hybrid hubs are actually quite different: The flanges are thicker, the spoke angle looks different, the internal threaded ratchet is a different size, and the freehub is different. They are certainly not the same as the "regular" hubs and as you say it's refreshing to see this rather than "ebike specific" gimmicks. -Tristan
Bearing sizes are listed in the video and in the link in the description (www.wheelworks.co.nz/dt-swiss-hub-comparison-deep-dive/) The EXP freehub bodies can be used on a non-EXP hub (and visa versa) by removing or installing the HCDXXX00S0978S ring -Tristan
The old 350 is still a great hub....the newer one is lighter and the mountain bike version is faster to engage. If you don't need those features then nothing wrong with getting the old version. -Tristan
Very informative just curious why you didn't do all 3 straight pull hubs be a better comparison. Versus one straight pull and 2 j bend hubs . The j bends have more material.
Great question Dan and you're correct that the straight-pull versions of the 350 and 240 would have been a better comparison, or of course if my prayers were answered and we had a J-bend version of the 180! We tend to use J-bend hubs wherever they're available as they build into a stiffer and generally more durable wheelset than straight-pull do. We've got a video on this topic coming so make sure you subscribe -Tristan
Do you have any concerns about the reduced bearing size in the 180 versus the 240? In an internet forum I read a post where the poster felt like the bearings were so small in the 180 that it might lead to durability issues. I take everything that I read online with a big grain of salt, but I did feel like that was an interesting thought regarding the 180. What are your thoughts on durability with the reduced bearing size in the 180?
Hey JB. I'm not sure the smaller bearing will have a big impact on their longevity, especially as the non-driveside bearing (the one which is substantially smaller) is the lowest-loaded bearing and the one which tends to last the longest. What we find is that ceramic bearings, from all companies including DT Swiss, tend to feel pretty gritty pretty fast. This might be a 'feature' and they don't seem to get excessive friction, but your axle won't feel smooth when you turn it by hand. They don't seem to develop any play.
hi, I have gotten the newly built wheel set with 240 EXP hubs. The rear hub came already converted with the 54T ratchet. When the rear wheel is installed with 10 nm , the free hub does not work at all. It is like a fixed gear bike. When I loosen the axle , the free hub does work. I did check the internals, everything is where it should be. Any clue? Not received an answer from the wheel set-builder yet.
It's likely one of two things: (1) the red spacer is missing from between the freehub body and hub shell or (2) the fixed ratchet ring wasn't tightened enough into the hub. (1) is an easy fix and (2) might sort itself out if you use your drivetrain to tighten the fixed ring but would ideally need the correct tool to tighten the ring. -Tristan
Any differences in sound and loudness between Ratchet and Ratchet Exp? I got Dicuts 240 with 36t Ratchet and this is very quiet but sounds pretty good.
Tune hubs require "faffing around"? They're just a pawl hub. Build up just like any hub. I have two years on a climbhill/killhill set with no problems. It's a really good video; but why do you say silly stuff like this?
Our experience building and selling these over a number of years is quite different to yours. Glad to hear you haven't experienced any issues with your pair! -Tristan
@@trentvlakmost of the problems are around a creaking drive mechanism related to the XOT bearing used. The threaded endcaps which rely on o-rings to not rotate don't help but overall we found them to have extremely poor tolerances which leads to two "identical" hubs having parts which won't interchange -TT
We tend to gloss over the front hubs as they don't tend to be significantly different.... We've got another could of DT Swiss deep dives coming up though so will spend more time on the fronts
What is your opinion on CL rotor attachment play? When the disc rotor is locked in place by the brake, you can turn the hub by approx 1°. Dt swiss say's its normal but its just seems poor manufacturing for such expensive hub.
It's rare that we see any rotor play. Often what people think is rotor play is actually the brakepads moving inside the brake calliper. However, once the lockring it tightened there shouldn't be any play in real-life because you're only braking in one direction and not reversing the load on the brake. A large amount of play would indicate something isn't right, however generally there is no problem with a small amount of play. -TT
We haven't seen the 2021 hubs with our own eyes yet and it's still pretty unclear when we will. DT Swiss are struggling with supply of most of their products so I'm not holding my breathe to be honest! The official DT Swiss website has some tech info on the new 350 versions, and as you say they have the 36t ratchet (which is long overdue to be honest) but until we get them in real life I can't really comment more -Tristan
Hi Sam - here is a full look at the 2022 350 hubs. They're actually a lot more like the old 240 than the old 350. -Tristan ua-cam.com/video/MBRsMkLcEI8/v-deo.html
I don't know - I've never seen a published material :-( They're very strong though and are the only aluminium 15mm axle which I can't recall seeing break. -Tristan
Other than a better hub and a better rim? 🙈 The 370 can be upgraded now with the LN freehub body - this basically makes it a 350 with the star ratchet system. It's a reasonably expensive job especially as you'll need two special tools, but gives you a much better hub. If you're in NZ we have XD upgrades in stock, all others are due later in the year. -Tristan
We focused on the rear hubs in this video because the front hub differences are less, however it's the same story with the more expensive hubs getting lighter and the 180 having ceramic bearings. -Tristan
its not available to buy* as an "aftermarket" hub and only comes fitted on new bikes so we left it out of this video. Now that DT Swiss are transitioning from the 3-pawl to the Ratchet LN system it's become even more confusing though! *You do see the hubs available to buy sometimes but these are grey-market hubs which were destined for use on brand-new bikes but somehow ended up being sold aftermarket -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Yes, just one little part. Them I started to take all off with a soft plastic. To be honest, glad that I took the red off. I didn't match the color scheme of my bike.
I’ve also heard J bend spokes weak link is the bend compared to straight pull. Got 240 straight pull bladed spokes and 350 straight pull round spokes on my bikes
This is a bit of a fallacy - when correctly built J-bend spokes are stiffer and as durable (or more durable) than straight-pull. Straight-pull has one significant advantage: they're MUCH faster to build a wheel with and in a production environment that's money saved. We've got a J-bend vs straight-pull video scheduled so we'll explain all of this in the future - stay tuned. -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels How can J-bend spokes be stiffer than straight-pull? Metallurgically I don't see how that's possible other than the fact that straight-pull are usually longer since there are no hub flanges. Any bend will always have more flex than straight metal.
The weight difference between 350 and 180 rear hubs is about 63 grams (2.25 ounces). That seems pretty trivial; you could probably make up that difference by drinking drip coffee instead of lattes for a few days. None of these hubs are cheap, but is there a significant performance difference between them? In other words, if you pay 3x more for 180 vs. 350, do you get significantly less friction and much quicker engagement?
Hi Sventice - you might find this video interesting as it compares the three hubs and should answer your questions: -Tristan ua-cam.com/video/_solStr8PnU/v-deo.html
Great video! Thanks. You answered all my questions. I'll stick with 350 hubs. Too little difference in weight unless you are a 1-class rider.
I´ve seen this review so many times when I´m searching parts for my 180EXP...
Great content, thank you!
Glad to help!
love videos like this that go into every detail and right into it no bs ad's
Thanks mate :-)
great explanations and presentation. Thanks for loving your job, which makes it enjoyable for me listening!
Cool comparison. Seems like a legitimate weight saving going from the 350s to 240s. But those last few grams saved going from 240s to 180s seem like they were achieved mostly by doing things that will undoubtedly sacrifice service life and longevity. Also, hybrid ceramic bearings are terrible in practice because all the bumps you hit during your rides will cause the ultra-hard ceramic balls to make micro-indentations on the inner surfaces of the not-as-hard steel races and this will create more roughness and resistance over time, no matter how well you maintain them. Just a terrible idea, really.
Yeah our experience with ceramic and ceramic hybrid bearings echos this - they feel amazing when brand-new but quickly start to feel chunky even if they continue to spin. This tends to happen quite quickly on a mountain bike hub but take a lot longer (obviously) on a road bike -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels yep. Exactly my experience with CeramicSpeed bearings in my hubs, which are some of the most highly-regarded bearings in the industry. Though I do wonder why any of them are highly regarded. They feel amazing when new but truth be told, this is mostly from other tricks, like substituting oil for grease and using non-contact seals (which will even further reduce longevity). Why do companies continue with this bad idea when they and the consumer know that it’s a bad idea?
@@RB-xv4si Well at the risk of getting on my high-horse these is where marketing overpowers actual experience. -Tristan
Excellent review. I have the DTSwiss 240 EXP and recently experienced an issue with the internal ratchet disengaging mid ride. DT Swiss are aware of this issue and apparently a batch was manufactured using ratchet that undergoes higher wear. While they will warrant this, are you able to post the EXP ratchet removal tool needed? I am looking to do all future servicing and was not sure of that tool. I understand this is different to the 350 model. Thanks
This is the tool you need for the EXP hubs: www.wheelworks.co.nz/shop-2/tool/hxtxxx00n8387s-dt-swiss-tool-dt-disassembly-tool-for-exp-star-ratchet-w20x1-hxtxxx00n8387s/
I'm looking for a 350 hub but in 36 holes version, and there is one : the dt swiss 350 "HYBRID" 🤣
does it really matter ? does it suit a gravel trekking bike (non electric) ?
Great vídeo. Congrats. Thanks
@4:59, you say, "at wheelworks, we are big believers in J-bend spokes. We can build a stiffer more durable wheel than we can with J-bend." huh? given your comment about the 180s, I assume you mean you like j-bends better than straight pull, but I think there was a miscommunication.
Sorry if we've confused you! Yes we like J-Bend better but the 180 are only available in straight pull so we make-do on that hubset -Tristan
Nice comparison. I will have wheels with 350 on the way, but I have hope pro4 now, will see how they compare.
Both are great hubs!
Perfect, do this with new 350,240 and 180 straightpull versions with 28Holes, centerlock boost versions 110/148
We've just landed the 2022 model of the 350 so have a full deepdive on that now: ua-cam.com/video/MBRsMkLcEI8/v-deo.html
Great video thanks! one question: Would it be possible to replace the hybrid ceramic bearings in the 180 with standard steel bearings if you wanted to? or are these non-standard bearing sizes? so not possible to find steel replacements? thanks!
Yes, absolutely. The bearing sizes used (15x24x5 and 15x26x7mm) are easy to get from either DT Swiss or other bearing makers in a high quality steel version ~Tristan
Great video. First time I'm hearing about the difference in bearing sizes. Overall glad I went with the 350.
Glad I could help
you didn't mention the main differences in the end caps. The 350 has no seals whereas the 180 & 240 have o ring seals in. Edit: I've just been told 350 hubs do in fact have o rings in the end caps - mine are 2016 so maybe they have changed since then.
I can't recall the 350 ever NOT having o-rings and I just took a look at a few of our hubs and they've all got them. Are you sure your orings didn't fall out? They can do that after the endcaps are removed a few times -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Here's my 350 hub end cap: ua-cam.com/video/-nC4C2BQD2c/v-deo.html . No o ring or anywhere an o ring to be. This was my front wheel end cap. My rear 350 does have o rings. So it seems that the 240s have o rings in both wheels end caps where as the 350 is only in the rear (for 15mm front / 12mm rear at least.)
@@45graham45 I understand now. Yes, the front hubs all use totally different systems of securing the endcaps. Many people don't ask questions about the front hubs so we didn't do a deep-dive on these but maybe we should? The 350 has the axle sit directly on the bearings so there is no space for o-rings. The 240 uses a different system where the axle goes all the way through the bearings and does have them. If you convert your hub to a 12mm through axle (for a road bike) then it will have o-rings on the endcaps :-)
Hey Wheelworks! Does the hubs have some kind of rider weight limit also? Let's say i'm 85kg rider - what would be best for me?
The 180 hubs come on the carbon all mountain rims. Should I be concerned about the hub strength or durability due to its low weight and smaller bearings.
"Big believer in J-Bend spokes... can build a better wheel than you can with J-Bend"...... so now I'm confused. Which are better: J-Bend or Straightpull?
This topic probably deserves it's own video! J-bend hubs are better in every way and allow you to build a better wheelset if (and it's a big IF) you take the time and care but they're very labour intensive. If you're planning on building a lot of the same wheel then straight-pull hubs/spokes reduce the lacing and tensioning time considerably and therefore have a massive cost saving. This is the only reason that straight-pull has come about and why it remains - everything else they tell you is either marketing fluff or a straight up lie. -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels but you said you "can build a better wheel than you can with j-bend" which is why it makes no sense.
@@45graham45 I think I stumbled over my tongue. We can build better wheels with J-bend spokes than we can with straight-pull.
That 1 gram weight saving on those ceramic bearings on the drive side really got me lauging😅
Marginal gains :-) -Tristan
I thought front hubs tended to have larger bearings since 15mm TA exists and it simplifies the product line.
It can be really mixed....many brands use 15x28x7mm bearings in their front hubs. Some like DT Swiss use 17mm in some hubs, and Hope uses 20mm bearings. -Tristan
Is it worth from 350 change to 180 ？
They copied MAVIC id360 with the single spring !!
What do u think ?? :)
Actually the first generation Hugi hubs, from before when DT Swiss purchased them, in 1998-ish used a single spring....so you could argue they copied themselves ;-) -Tristan
Would love to see a comparison between their new (recent?) Hybrid hubs vs the OG ones. I am a firm believer that the DT Swiss ratchet system is the most solid/abuse-proof system for high torque applications (like those exerted by full power (85+ Nm) eMTBs), in comparison to pawl-based hubs. Before the Hybrid hubs existed, I just replaced the ratchets (gears) for the steel ones. But aside from a steel freehub body and ratchets... are there any more differences? Are they just another "eBike specific" gimmick? Cheers mate.
The Hybrid hubs are actually quite different: The flanges are thicker, the spoke angle looks different, the internal threaded ratchet is a different size, and the freehub is different. They are certainly not the same as the "regular" hubs and as you say it's refreshing to see this rather than "ebike specific" gimmicks. -Tristan
Is 240 exp system compatible with 350? And what is the bearing size of the 350 hub?
Bearing sizes are listed in the video and in the link in the description (www.wheelworks.co.nz/dt-swiss-hub-comparison-deep-dive/) The EXP freehub bodies can be used on a non-EXP hub (and visa versa) by removing or installing the HCDXXX00S0978S ring -Tristan
Hey guys, can anyone help me out? Is the older 350 still worth buying or should I go with the newer one?
The old 350 is still a great hub....the newer one is lighter and the mountain bike version is faster to engage. If you don't need those features then nothing wrong with getting the old version. -Tristan
Very informative just curious why you didn't do all 3 straight pull hubs be a better comparison. Versus one straight pull and 2 j bend hubs . The j bends have more material.
Great question Dan and you're correct that the straight-pull versions of the 350 and 240 would have been a better comparison, or of course if my prayers were answered and we had a J-bend version of the 180! We tend to use J-bend hubs wherever they're available as they build into a stiffer and generally more durable wheelset than straight-pull do. We've got a video on this topic coming so make sure you subscribe -Tristan
Do you have any concerns about the reduced bearing size in the 180 versus the 240? In an internet forum I read a post where the poster felt like the bearings were so small in the 180 that it might lead to durability issues. I take everything that I read online with a big grain of salt, but I did feel like that was an interesting thought regarding the 180. What are your thoughts on durability with the reduced bearing size in the 180?
Hey JB. I'm not sure the smaller bearing will have a big impact on their longevity, especially as the non-driveside bearing (the one which is substantially smaller) is the lowest-loaded bearing and the one which tends to last the longest. What we find is that ceramic bearings, from all companies including DT Swiss, tend to feel pretty gritty pretty fast. This might be a 'feature' and they don't seem to get excessive friction, but your axle won't feel smooth when you turn it by hand. They don't seem to develop any play.
If I wanted to swap bearings from the 180 to the non ceramic 6802 would the dt Swiss front 6802 bearing work?
Any bearing quality / material of the same size will work -Tristan
Genuine NTN LLB.
Say, what is the actual difference between the new dt swiss 370 and the 350?
We'll try and do a Ratchet LN comparison to the "Classic" star ratchet video so stay tuned -TT
great vid
hi, I have gotten the newly built wheel set with 240 EXP hubs. The rear hub came already converted with the 54T ratchet. When the rear wheel is installed with 10 nm , the free hub does not work at all. It is like a fixed gear bike. When I loosen the axle , the free hub does work. I did check the internals, everything is where it should be. Any clue? Not received an answer from the wheel set-builder yet.
It's likely one of two things: (1) the red spacer is missing from between the freehub body and hub shell or (2) the fixed ratchet ring wasn't tightened enough into the hub. (1) is an easy fix and (2) might sort itself out if you use your drivetrain to tighten the fixed ring but would ideally need the correct tool to tighten the ring. -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Thank you very much for the info.
Dude! You safe my many a lot! 👍
Any differences in sound and loudness between Ratchet and Ratchet Exp? I got Dicuts 240 with 36t Ratchet and this is very quiet but sounds pretty good.
Tune hubs require "faffing around"? They're just a pawl hub. Build up just like any hub. I have two years on a climbhill/killhill set with no problems. It's a really good video; but why do you say silly stuff like this?
Our experience building and selling these over a number of years is quite different to yours. Glad to hear you haven't experienced any issues with your pair! -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels what faffing around is going on here?
@@trentvlakmost of the problems are around a creaking drive mechanism related to the XOT bearing used. The threaded endcaps which rely on o-rings to not rotate don't help but overall we found them to have extremely poor tolerances which leads to two "identical" hubs having parts which won't interchange -TT
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels oh, I see. My versions of the hubs don't have xot bearings or threaded end caps. They must have redesigned.
nice video! could you do one about the differences in the front hubs?
We tend to gloss over the front hubs as they don't tend to be significantly different.... We've got another could of DT Swiss deep dives coming up though so will spend more time on the fronts
What is your opinion on CL rotor attachment play? When the disc rotor is locked in place by the brake, you can turn the hub by approx 1°. Dt swiss say's its normal but its just seems poor manufacturing for such expensive hub.
It's rare that we see any rotor play. Often what people think is rotor play is actually the brakepads moving inside the brake calliper. However, once the lockring it tightened there shouldn't be any play in real-life because you're only braking in one direction and not reversing the load on the brake. A large amount of play would indicate something isn't right, however generally there is no problem with a small amount of play. -TT
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels thanks, its not only for dt swiss even shimano xtr and I9 have this issues when I checked online forums.
Dude, it's totally normal and isn't a factor when riding. How often do you ever come to a stop and rock back and forth on your bike? It's a non-issue.
Now that we’re into June 2021, I was wondering if you guys know of any big differences with the newer model/revamped 350 besides 36tooth upgrade?
We haven't seen the 2021 hubs with our own eyes yet and it's still pretty unclear when we will. DT Swiss are struggling with supply of most of their products so I'm not holding my breathe to be honest! The official DT Swiss website has some tech info on the new 350 versions, and as you say they have the 36t ratchet (which is long overdue to be honest) but until we get them in real life I can't really comment more -Tristan
Hi Sam - here is a full look at the 2022 350 hubs. They're actually a lot more like the old 240 than the old 350. -Tristan
ua-cam.com/video/MBRsMkLcEI8/v-deo.html
Dt swiss 350 axle made of 7000 series alloy?
I don't know - I've never seen a published material :-( They're very strong though and are the only aluminium 15mm axle which I can't recall seeing break. -Tristan
Neat review, thanks for the effort 💪
Thanks for the feedback Mariano! -Tristan
I currently ride DT Swiss 370 on STANS ... Any advise on upgrading?
Other than a better hub and a better rim? 🙈 The 370 can be upgraded now with the LN freehub body - this basically makes it a 350 with the star ratchet system. It's a reasonably expensive job especially as you'll need two special tools, but gives you a much better hub. If you're in NZ we have XD upgrades in stock, all others are due later in the year. -Tristan
Thank you.
What about the front wheel hubs?
We focused on the rear hubs in this video because the front hub differences are less, however it's the same story with the more expensive hubs getting lighter and the 180 having ceramic bearings. -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels cool. What bearings are used? Are they all the same dimensions or different as on the rear?
why you skipped 370s?
its not available to buy* as an "aftermarket" hub and only comes fitted on new bikes so we left it out of this video.
Now that DT Swiss are transitioning from the 3-pawl to the Ratchet LN system it's become even more confusing though!
*You do see the hubs available to buy sometimes but these are grey-market hubs which were destined for use on brand-new bikes but somehow ended up being sold aftermarket
-Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels thanks! I got several on pre-owned wheelsets and didnt notice that they are oem only
J bend are better then j bend? J bend for the win!
J bend for everyone! -TT
Have you experienced the red painting coming off from 240s exp hubs?
No we haven't seen that. Have you?
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Yes, just one little part. Them I started to take all off with a soft plastic. To be honest, glad that I took the red off. I didn't match the color scheme of my bike.
@@thiagodeconto Interesting! I'll keep my eyes out for this thanks
I’ve also heard J bend spokes weak link is the bend compared to straight pull. Got 240 straight pull bladed spokes and 350 straight pull round spokes on my bikes
This is a bit of a fallacy - when correctly built J-bend spokes are stiffer and as durable (or more durable) than straight-pull. Straight-pull has one significant advantage: they're MUCH faster to build a wheel with and in a production environment that's money saved. We've got a J-bend vs straight-pull video scheduled so we'll explain all of this in the future - stay tuned. -Tristan
Supposed to be lighter too.
@@catg9196 Again - it depends. Generally the straight-pull hubs will be lighter though. -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels How can J-bend spokes be stiffer than straight-pull? Metallurgically I don't see how that's possible other than the fact that straight-pull are usually longer since there are no hub flanges. Any bend will always have more flex than straight metal.
@@akbast With j-shaped needles, you can create more crosses if necessary.
excellent thanks
amazing review, you shop to the usa
We sure do Dave! Check our www.wheelworks.co.nz/ and drop us a note if we can help with a new build! -Tristan
very nice rundown!
Glad you enjoyed it thanks Gustav -Tristan
The weight difference between 350 and 180 rear hubs is about 63 grams (2.25 ounces). That seems pretty trivial; you could probably make up that difference by drinking drip coffee instead of lattes for a few days.
None of these hubs are cheap, but is there a significant performance difference between them? In other words, if you pay 3x more for 180 vs. 350, do you get significantly less friction and much quicker engagement?
Hi Sventice - you might find this video interesting as it compares the three hubs and should answer your questions: -Tristan
ua-cam.com/video/_solStr8PnU/v-deo.html
It is not $2000 worth of hubs. It is $1800 blown in the wind for nothing at all. Well one thing: laude annoying noise when riding.
Nice take, Wal-Mart shopper