I currently drive for a concrete company in South Carolina, and I've driven both Automatic and Manual trucks; when I started working there, I was driving an automatic truck (Allison 4500 RDS 6-speed), and the truck I'm driving now has an Eaton 9LL. Both transmissions have their benefits and drawbacks; the automatic allows the driver to fully focus on driving the truck instead of worrying about the next shift, while the manual allows the driver total control of when the shifts happens (the deep reduction gears in the 9LL are very helpful in off-road and other slow speed situations). The downside of an automatic is that the driver doesn't have direct control of when the shifts happen, while the downsides of a manual are power interruption between shifts and more energy expended while shifting during the day
Specially when You are first learning to drive the truck with a trailer. You need to be more focused on the road and the trailer so you dont get into an accident. I almost hit a car with my trailer because i was more concerned of not stalling in the middle of an intersection than to pay attention to my turns and my trailers. Safety reasons automatic is WAY better.
@The Bois depends on the job. I'm not gonna bother going into detail but I've spent enough time riding the clutch to move an inch at a time. I love allison autos for what I do. That said if I was otr and it was my truck I'd go manual.
I spent several years in the Marine Corps as a tanker. The 70+ ton tank with 1500+ horsepower and gobs of torque used an Allison transmission. Damn near bulletproof. You're never going to get the old farts out of the three pedal trucks.
No chance of fixing or working around the Allison going out when it does go out out on the road and when it does it’ll be a costly fix, the manual you’ve much better chance of Jimmie rigging something to get you home not to mention the price difference it’s fairly easy to see why old truckers and small operations will always run a manual
Caleb Guiton Maybe not always but for the time being youre right. People in my grandfathers day thought automatics would never work in autos yet here we are.
I’m retired now, but I have driven manual and automated trannies over the road. I’m still on the fence for OTR applications. I also drove fire trucks for over 26 years. For emergency vehicles the full auto trans is the way to go. Modern Allison transmissions are very smooth. The circuitous routes that were typical of fire responses are way easier with a full auto trans as that allows you to focus on the task of arriving safely at the destination. You never have to worry about shifting into the proper gear. And, many firefighters of the younger generation don’t handle manual transmissions proficiently.
There are certain applications where you need a specific transmission for one thing or another. Emergency vehicles definitely work better with automatics. Especailly fire tankers. OTR.....the automated transmission has really show how great of a thing it can be over the past few years.
can't see myself driving a manual on a large city...too much stop and go....Manual trans for me is fun, i love being in control of the truck, but as i said too much stop and go kills the joy
I just got mine new T680 with paccar motor , once the deal was done , I picked up my truck i had lot of questions about maintainance and other things , the sales man said don't worry i will find out for you , till now , nothing from their side , can you explain about the proper maintainance to keep the truck moving smoothly , thanks
All of the scheduled maintenance should be in your truck and engine owners manuals. If you go by what that says, you'll have a long life from that engine!
@@shutupshutup2713People have done it with Ferraris with the F1 automated manual. Of course, a Ferrari 430 is way different than a Kenworth semi. But I think it’s probably possible.
I too can't settle less than Allison. It's smooth and have quicker gear change. This means a lot stressful driving with Allison. Also have better acceleration off traffic lights. Mind you I somewhat have an opportunity to compare on our stupid 100kmh motorway/highway with traffic lights. The Allison transmission truck got off very quickly compared to a manual (probably Eaton who knows).
Pretty decent explanations of the pros/cons. Two questions that I'd like to see answered: 1) What is the weight difference among them (use the RDS 4500/4700 for the Allison), and 2) what is the real world approximate cost difference up front? I'll be retiring in a few years and looking real hard at putting together a SuperC RV, and the foundation is still kind of up in the air.
Allison does weigh more from what I've seen, but it's not a huge difference. The pricing is. THe Allison is anywhere from $15-20k more than a manual where as the UltraShift is $3-5k more.
I have a DSG (dual-shift gearbox) in a VW Passat. This is also an automated manual, using 2 clutches, the side-by-side gear assemblies and super fast shifting. One set of gears in 1,3 and 5. The other set of gears is 2,4,6. When I start out in 1st, the other clutch is waiting to engage in 2nd. The shifting is nearly instantaneous, confirmed by how the tach snaps to the new gear. I doubt with all the mass of a large diesel engine this would work as well, unless that rpm change was dampened just a little.
Volvo has the I-shift dual clutch transmission. Those using it, really like it. Especially during mountain crossing. There’s no interruption of power, AND, not to forget, constant jake brake. Accept during hi/lo range shifts. As of today, it looks like Volvo is still the only manufacturer that offers a dual clutch transmission made for heavy vehicles. I didn’t manage to find any other alternatives right now.
Our company purchased t680's with 10 speed automated transmissions. I like that there is no clutch pedal to stretch out your legs but that's about it. The truck does not accelerate going down a on ramp if the ramp has any down grade until it levels out. We changed our shift parameters from 1500 to 1800, they were just to slow to get up to speed. (450 isx Cummins). I thought they would really be nice but would prefer manual again. Most of the time I'll shift in the manual mode instead of the automated mode especially downshifts with the Jake on. We have had some issues with the wiring and sensers on the transmission resulting in a tow back to the shop.
Well explained sir... Automated manuals are of course very different from standard automatic, since (like you said) all the internals are that of a manual transmission. You can operate the Automated tractor in a semi-automatic/manual mode where you have control of the gears, or you can let the computers and hydraulics take over for you, so they can depress and actuate the clutch, and automate the clutch and gear shift control. Great video buddy!!!
In November my truck will be paid off and I’m buying a manual. I run a lot of steep twisty roads and I’m constantly messing with my automatic. Switching from economy to performance to manual, jakes on, Jakes off. It’s tiring. With a auto tranny, no only do you have to worry about the engine and after treatment messing up, you also have to worry of the damn thing is going to shift when you need it to. Plus, all the dealers are so packed with broken down trucks, it’s would be nice to have a manual where any roadside shop could work on it in less than a day without some special computer. I’ll never buy another one until autos are the only option. I regret it big time
@@hannatrucking Ok. I misunderstand. You dont mean engine brake, you mean high/low gear? The ZF-gearbox have physicly 3 speed unsynchronized with high/low input and high/low output, the computer count 12 speeds on display. And 2 speeds reverse. Mercedes has 3 speeds reverse.
Here's something that you can or might want to dive into concerning these transmissions. The weight difference between the 4. Or is there really a big difference in weight between the 4.
I've heard that the Allisons were heavier, but I'm not sure. I know we have 2 trucks that are almost identical except for the transmission and 22.5 vs 24.5 on the rear and the truck with the manual and 22.5 wheels and tires was 300 lbs lighter than the truck with the Allison and 24.5 wheels and tires.
I would've liked seeing inside the truck and actually what you were talking about. Such as it is you might as well did the whole thing in German or French or...you get the idea.
Yup! a properly installed and spec'd PTO will not void a warranty unless it's the PTO that caused the problem. For a tanker, an Allison would be great, but really close behind that and probably the best value would be the Paccar Automated transmission.
Man i so hope that you will answer under my comment 🙏 I have purchased 2020 Peterbilt 579 x15 efficiency series 500hp, ultrashift plus mhp 13 speed automated transmission and meritor plus 3.42 gears with airtrak suspension.. Truck was made in 07/2019 Fuck... 5.6-6.0 maximum mpg with 78-79k load reefer at 70-72 mph speed ( 1480-1580 rpm) Yeah i have 6800 miles on it but fuck..i am worrying will my mpg grow up with time? Also my pete 579 with that airtrak raises my reefer trailer so high like truck is 13.5 and reefer was 13.8(now its 13.7,deflated airbags a bit) Will EPIQ package help me a bit do you know if trailer is 2 inches higher than truck? Then Ultrashift plus. Okay overall i like it on highway but on backing up to the door it’s a painful 😖 Jumps a lot, if i use R1,i often get CA message in dash ( clutch abuse) R2 starts too fast and i am about to hit another truck if i am really close to him. How to activate creep mode on reverse if manual and low mode work only in D position. How to activate urge in move?? Will it help me to avoid clutch abuse and if i got truck and trailer like in « Г » position, either in left or right side, it jumps and shakes truck and trailer a lot and every time! In what year new ultrashift plus were upgraded/ updated? If my 2020 truck were made in 07/2019, i got the old or new version? Just i wish to know about mpg, i was expecting 6.5-7 mpg with reefer 80k at 70 mph, but i have 5.5-6.0 with 2017 emission x15 500 hp efficiency series and 3.42 gears .. where i am fucked up? With airtrak that raises trailer above truck cabin or because the truck is a little bit raised with clearance in compare to another pete 579/kenworth t680? How to avoid clutch abuse while backing up in really tough places where i need often pull forward for couple feets and back up for couple feets a lot of times ? I have like R1 R2 and kinda R3,which I cannot activate while i am staying. R1 is lower 1st gear and R2 is higher 1st gear correct ? Sorry i am just so upset, idk what to do and how to explain another my drivers how to not break the ultrashift transmission.. please help me! Let God Bless You! 🙏 P.S. if this setup is really bad, will x15 efficiency series 500hp with endurant 12 speed auto transmission and 2.85 meritor axle ratio better? And which setup will be more reliable : the #1 i have now with my pete 579 or #2 i have described here in P.S. for reefer 80k going 70mph. Thank you!!!
And for ultrashift plus 13 speed transmission how many miles the clutch may live? Or after how many miles i need to change the clutch ? Like in 300.000-350.000 miles? What should i do in backing up in tough places if eaton video says like don’t use two pedal(brake and gas often) but if I have to act like press gas pedal, then press brake because truck is shaking and start to drive in reverse too fast in R2 position ( i press “turn off hill assist button, i know about 3 secs delay so i keep “turn hill assist off” in backing up and if i use R1, the Clutch abuse warning comes earlier than i am in R2), turn steering wheel on opposite site, drive forward, press brake, turn steering wheel all the way to the left, press gas, then press brake and i got this fucking clutch abuse warning... i have been driving volvo vnl860/freightliner cascadia with 12 speed automatic transmission and never have had any problems like that, what should i do? How to backing up correctly with ultrashift plus? I would very appreciate with your answers, i think i am not the one with such situation, your reply may help another guys too! I like the transmission and setup on highway overall. I really enjoy with it, but mpg and backing up are painful and stressful 😭😢 Maybe i do something wrong or I don’t know something.. About x15 2017 year emission, will my mpg grow up after like 50.000-60.000 miles if right now i have 6800? Or i have to change the hardware like buy and put hardware from 2020/2021 efficientcy series and put in in my 2017 model year engine? Thank you again dude ! 🙏
One other reason to run a conventional manual - a lot of areas in the nation there is little to no access to a shop facility that can work on computerized, or even automatic, transmissions and engine systems; the nearest facility might be hours or even days away meaning a substantial cost of remote service or tow. But about any rural shop can probably effect a repair on a basic manual gearbox and get a guy up and running again. Ease of use is a great thing, but it comes at the price of complexity and can increase the cost of ownership if the worst happens.
What's the safety backup system for the electronic gearbox? What will happen if the electrical system fails? To me mechanical gearboxes are more robust and better than any electrical controlled gearbox.
Thanks for watching Philip! All of them are really well built items. As long as you don't beat them, they'll give you years of great service. With the UltraShift, it's actually the same case, gears, and other items as the manual transmission which have already proven themselves over the years. On the electronic gearbox, initially there were a few issues, but no, they really have become extremely reliable. It's not too often that we hear about an issue with them. As far as a "safety backup" for a failure, there really isn't on. If you're worried about the transmission not working on a hill, I'll say this, "It's no more likely to fail than a U Joint."
Philip The company I work with we have 3 trucks with the auto shift. The short answer to your question is, the transmission will usually get stuck in neutral, it's not cheap to fix either around $2500 , after the parts get fixed, the transmission computer and the engines computer have to be connected so each computer can communicate with each other. The $2500, doesn't include the tow bill either.
Still what about a smoothbore tanker especially backing up climbing hills and going downhill, tankers are totally different from vanloads ! cargo moves
They are very different. Any of these transmissions can work for this, there's just some different adaptations that will need to be made weather it need to be made by the driver or the programming.
Josh - Another excellent video!!! Can't express how GREAT a job you do explaining things in your videos. For your sake i hope Paccar is paying attention and they pay you a whole lot of dough someday soon to be their corporate spokesman. Only question is: Have you heard anything about, or suspect there will be, an upgrade to the Endurant, by adding gears to the 12 in it currently? More gears in the overdrive range might help with fuel economy is the reason i ask.
Thanks Stew! I have a ton of fun doing them. In this, I'm not sure if there are plans to come out with more gears inside that box. It's very very close to the same OD as the 18 speed currently. In this, most of the trucks that we are spec'ing for this transmission, we're running 2.79 gears in to make sure that we've got the mileage. 1st is low enough that even at 80k, you shouldn't have any issues getting a move on. :D Are you currently running one? What ratio rears?
Are they even still making the Eaton fuller automated with the clutch petal? I have one in my 2009 T-800. I hated it at first, but now I’ve grown accustomed to it. For around town, stop and go driving, I prefer the Allison automatic. For OTR work, I’m still a fan of the manual. If I was going to buy my own truck, it would have the 18 speed manual, it’s just a personal preference. Automatics and automated transmissions seems to be the way of the future for most larger companies, I can see it’s place, and I think it’s a good training tool, get new driver accustomed to the size of the vehicle in an automated or automatic first, then add in the manual shifting. But that’s just the way I see it.
best most clearest explanation i ever heard about transmissions 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 but i stil ignorant lol so all i wanna know if you drive over the road with a dry van which one will you choose or be the best and easiest to work?????or any difference on snow ??
I forgot to answer part of the question.....sorry about that. Heavy Haul.....we've actually got a few guys running an 18 speed UltraShift and they love it so far.
You did not mention PTO's and how they are different with the different transmissions. When running a hook lift or roll back it is a must. With the 18 speed as soon a you press the clutch in it disengages the PTO and you lose all hydraulic functions, which makes loading a container on a hill very difficult.
In my experience, it's a lot easier to use PTO with Allison transmission since you don't have to worry about having to use a clutch. In general, it's really a big pain in the backside having depress the clutch everytime you need to use PTO with manuals. With Allison on the other hand, you can simply slide to neutral if needed.
For heavy haul over gcvw, what is the fail rate for the Allison vs an 8ll? The rto16908ll brochure says gcvw=140000lbs online catalog says 110000. If I pulled a tractor trailer setup w/ the 8ll at 14k vs the Allison which would fail 1st?
Another great video. I like that the automated still has a clutch but what happens when the computer goes out? Stuck on the side of the road singing along with your greatest Brittney Spears songs? I still prefer that 3rd petal due to that fact that I haul heavy equipment in steep country.
Thanks Jason! I really do enjoy putting these together. The computers have proved to be very, very reliable over the years in these. Sometimes, a wiring or electrical component issue will come up...but for the most part, we've seen really great reliability out of these. There's been a few instances of issues....I won't deny it. But the overall benefit to 99% of the people running them have far outweighted the drawbacks. At least if used in the right application. PS.......Your Brittney Spears secret is not safe with me. I may be calling you out on this one in one of the next few videos.... :D
Recently bought a used peterbuilt 579 with the ultrashift. I converted the truck to pull my Fifth wheel rv for recreational use. Coming from a 2020 ram 3500 cummins to this was a shock when it came to transmission. First thing I noticed is I couldn't take off from a stop light and have quick acceleration and lags from the automated short shifting. So on that not I cannot merge quickly onto a highway this is a real safety concern. Had I known this I would of thought twice before purchasing
Honestly, any one of them would be a good pick depending on terrain. We have a lot of guys that run 10 speed ultrashifts or 18 speed ultrashifts for applications like that and love them.
Hi. My truck is a 10 speed manual (Eaton) the gears stock was on high range (I was told that this was a minor issue) But The mechanic told me it's a big damage, they need to rebuild it for $ 3500 without labor!!!. I agreed. Then I found out, that he replaced it with another one, that one doesn't have a cooler (my transmission had one) tell me please if what the mechanic did is right/okay?. Should I accept this transmission ( the new one without the cooler)? He's working on the truck now, haven't finished yet.. I still have time... should I accept what he did or not?? Please reply 🙏
So basically, since I only have a controller and no shifter on American Truck Simulator, what I though was an automatic transmission is really an automated transmission, especially since I can feel all the shifts?
well, I have a small Vauxhall Corsa with a semi-automatic gearbox ..........it's semi-automatic as it has a normal conventional manual gearbox, it is just that the gear changes are made by an "actuator" that takes the place of the clutch and changes the gears but when needed I can use the manual mode and just pushing or pulling the gear level to change gears.
They work differently, so yes and no. The engine is still generating the same power and torque. The Allison uses a bit more power (higher parasitic load) but qith the torque multiplication of the torque converter, it lets the engine stretch it's power creation in a way if that makes sense.
@@KenworthofRichfield so this essentially means the automatic transmission may or may not haul a fully loaded trailer, as its primarily depended on multiple factors? As an OTR, I am starting to lean into the endurant trans for durability, unless I've missed something. I'm very used to automated transmissions, even if I've made the same misconception in calling it an automatic transmission. I haul 70-80K trailers regularly and don't want to overstress a transmission that isn't built for that level hauling. Use the right tool for the job, as the saying goes.
@@OrtexofWill Are you running 70-80k gross or is that just the payload? If that's gross, I'd go with the Endurant. It's a great transmission. It works the same as a manual, just with the computer controlling everything. If you're running at 100k+, then we can look at an UltraShift that will work for your application. As an OTR, I'll assume that you're running gross of 70-80k and to me, the Endurant is a great option for you.
@@KenworthofRichfield my loads as an otr reefer gross at around 40k. Sorry, I forgot gross weight and total vehicle weight were two different things. Whoops!
The international LT that I'm driving has an automated manual 10 speed and I hate it the clutch never knows when to actually engage, backing is the most annoying because your throttle input half the time it slingshots you back or nothing happens at all for a solid 3 seconds. When I was driving a Cascadia with the 12 speed Auto never had any of these issues and the Cascadia had crawl control which was very nice because it actually reacted how you wanted it to.
I like the sound of the endurant, does it have manual mode and 3 step engine braking on the steering column ? I'm a control freak and love manual but that endurant sounds like a meat and 3 veg complete feast with gravy. That painted no chrome look is cool. Edit: Found the video of T680 thanks.
I'm guessing the trend toward automatic and automated transmissions is because of a lack of drivers who are able to drive a manual or a lack of drivers who can drive a manual well. A generic computer program is probably safer and more efficient than a poorly trained manual trans driver. It's a shame really, because even taking the manual shifting out of the equation, there are more drivers than ever on the road who shouldn't be allowed near an 18 wheeler. Choosing the right gear for the conditions and load is part of what made truck driving a skilled profession. You now have a large percentage of drivers who can't shift, can't back into a dock, and can't maneuver the truck with any proficiency whatsoever. And that's why driver pay will never get any better than it is now. Driving has been distilled down to the lowest common denominator. What does all the recruiting literature say ? "Anyone can be a truck driver." When anyone can do it, it is no longer a skilled job.
I've been a truck driver for just only over three years, but what I've noticed is I had/have a ton of more energy after a day's work with an automatic. I've had my 8LL for over two years, working my dump truck from sun up to sun down and when I get off, I'm tired. I've driven for people when I can't find work who have automatics and all I can say is to hell with a manual... I'd rather have the energy to want to play withy kid when he wants rather than to have to willfully motivate myself because I'm tired. I see automated or automatics will provide a person less wear and tear on their body.
I absolutely agree with both of your replies. I have been driving semis for 10 years. Most of that time I was driving 90,000 lb pump trucks. Our company started buying Western Stars with automatics, and at first I was a "naysayer". After driving one for about a month, I will take the automatic ANY DAY! 1. You can focus more on the road, or while backing up, so its safer, even if by only a small margin. For new drivers, its a BIG margin. 2. They get better fuel mileage. 3. They are a godsend in traffic or on hills where other vehicles want to pull up on your rear bumper in stop and go traffic. 4. I am a lot less tired at the end of 14 hour day when I drive a automatic. I also noticed I feel less stressed as well, especially in traffic. These are all undeniable benefits that even the most seasoned truck driver can benefit from.
If you have sometimes heavy but mostly light automated is the way to go if you're constantly hauling big heavy loads like I do on every day's basis and going through steep hills manual transmission is the way both are good just like you said for the application take it or leave it
I’m with Garry. I don’t have to deal with a computer programmer’s sense of how that truck should operate. He may be all that and a bag of chips with software but I’m still not convinced that automatic or automated trucks will ever be able to out perform a highly skilled driver with the correct attitude.
I drove an Eaton Fuller automated 10 speed and never had an issue in bad weather, and if you're concerned about what the computer will do in those conditions you can hit the M button, set your gear and the trans won't shift out of it unless you want it to. Automateds are nowhere near as bad as people think.
@@aaronsanborn4291 Go ahead and guard your pathetic stick in the ground. Paper logs are gone, and companies are switching to automated transmissions in mass. I get paid to deliver, doesn't matter what truck I'm in.
Better then me bcuz ima choose the manual regardless what im doing and yes even in a dump truck and especially over the road! I was taught in dump trucks doing asphalt and milling with a manual so it’s not a headache to me as i was told it would be! Otr to me definitely requires a manual bcuz i want control of my truck on mountains and in adverse weather conditions etc, I only trust me in those areas or conditions with 80,000 pounds not a computer lol! Heavy haul speaks for itself so no need for me to even mention my reason for a manual with heavy haul lol!
Thanks Jeffrey! There's still quite a bit left to explain on these, but hopefully this gets people a good start! Glad you enjoy as I have fun putting them together.
Agreed. When I looked for a new job recently, I passed on a lot of jobs because I wanted a manual truck, and the fleet managers just sat there blinking at me like an idiot.
@@andrewhatton1606 I am inclined to agree. I know there are some older drivers who benefit from automatics because of worn knees, but most driver who's any good and enjoys the lifestyle of trucking, knows and enjoys manual trucks. All that aside, I am mystified why fleets don't buy at least a couple of manual trucks to attract the drivers that demand them. I just don't get it...
Yes and no. A torque converter automatic actually does use some power to run the pumps and that, so there is a bit of a loss, but not what it once was. Now, when it comes to an automated, it's exactly the same power to move that transmisison as it is an automated.
No. The clutch is controlled by the computer, and not very well from my standpoint. The T680 I drive sucks. It won't let me start above 3rd gear (pulling a pup trailer) and if it detects an upslope it starts in 1st. Then it often skips gears so it ends up lugging and not having much torque. When using the cruise control it derates the Jake brakes, I'm not sure why. If I set the cruise and coast over that point it shifts into neutral, which I thought was illegal and totally unsafe. The shifts are as slow as a new rookie driver would do so uphill starts can totally fail. You can put it in manual mode but there are still limits to what it will let you do. A total piece of junk in my opinion. Boss says every manufacturer wants $10k more for manual these days.
hey bud, like the videos; but please for the love of my ears, level your intro music to your vocals; it scares the crap outta me every time your intro runs 2 times louder lol
I drive a 2019 Kenworth daycab with the automated manual and what I don’t like is the delay when you hit the gas pedal. Up to 3 seconds. Why is it so bad and is that fixable.
Every last one of them. :D They all work, but they all work differently with the PTO and that's why Hooklift trucks and that run the Allison as it's constant PTO power where as anything else loses PTO power when the clutch is pressed in.
Thanks YungDiddy! I'm working on a few more of these and hope to have them rolling out over the next few weeks. If you've got a suggestion, let me know!
I got pulled over at colorado wheigh station. He asked me if I have a manual transmission or automatic. I told him it is automated manual transmission. Since I have restriction on my drivers license for AT only. He didn't bother to come and check if I was driving a manual.
Once we, employees of a certain company in a city in the Netherlands, were driven by bus to another city to demonstrate against something. I noticed that near the driver's seat there was a selector handle like that of an automatic, but how the bus drove, felt like a manual, for me as a passenger. I couldn't see the engine brand, but on the selector it said ZF AS-tronic. When our bus shifted, it fell a whole bus length back versus the other of our two buses. Each of the two buses had a female driver. I told our driver about what I wondered about the transmission. She said it could be shifted either automatically or manually. I didn't dare to ask her whether she had been shifting manually or letting it shift automatically most of the time. The other bus was a Volvo, so I suppose it had a Volvo i-Shift. I have never driven a bus or a truck, but as far as hear / read from truck drivers on the internet, Volvo I-Shift is beyond reproach. Once I saw a UA-cam video comparing various old-timer and contemporary trucks, emphasizing the ease or difficulty of the gearbox. The development went from non-synchronized to synchronized. Then there was a very new M.A.N. with an automated non-synchronized gearbox that shifted faster and smoother than the newest synchronized one. Once when I was googling about the things I wondered about the riding experience in that bus, I saw somewhere that in trucks and buses with an automated transmission, there is a databus between the transmission control unit and the engine control unit. I suppose that is for automated rpm matching during shifting.
Very informative. When I was in high school I got to ride in a school bus with an automatic transmission. 1981 I believe was the year the bus was an International. It shifted pretty good with a definite lag between gears though and an audible whine.
My company provided truck is an automated t680, gotta say I'm really not a fan. It tends to shift in the most inconvenient times, hangs up in one gear spinning the engine, also sometimes going up a hill it can't decide which gear to use and goes back and forth a few times. Worst part is the manual mode is useless because i can't go over a certain rpm. Looking for a new company that has manual trucks now because the company i work for only has automated now.
I have the automated with the clutch with a Detroit 60 12.7 pre emissions in a 2002 Columbia expediter … it took some getting used to !!! 😂😂😂 I was accustomed to manuals or straight automatics … but I actually love the truck now it gives me the control of a manual in tight spots and ease of an automatic on the road…. The only bad part is you still have to clutch in low speed stop and go traffic …
I drove a 10 speed autmated that had a clutch pedal in it absolutely loved it do they still make that one it was a joy nice to back up with and you could manually shift it with a T shaped stick which was nice going down hill you could control speed better then in traffic you could let it do its thing absolutely the nicest setup that i ever drove been at it for almost 60 years would like to have another
I’m surprised he didn’t mention the huge difference in engine braking between a clutch and torque converter. Having a direct connection between drivetrain and flywheel makes a huge difference over how a torque converter functions
Good point! It's one of those things that I feel and know, but a point that I missed in discussion. I'll be doing an update in the next few months and we'll be covering that there.
Chris Moody yes, the M1 Abrams tanks weighs 66 tons and uses an Allison. The truck that was designed specifically to haul it uses a Detroit Diesel and an Allison.
Aside from the Allison being much more expensive up front, they’re much more expensive to maintain if you’re to keep their warranty and keep them in good working conditions.
There is more to it, but they do last forever if done right and also, the constant torque and controllability is a huge benefit for some applications. It's all about finding what works for your specific business.
on off hwy like a front discharge mixer truck (or in my case a boom truck that gets into extreme situations).. automatic all the way. its the way they put the power to the ground. nothing beats full auto trying to get onto a snow covered lot. the trick is to go as slow as you can. the snow compresses and freezes in the treads as you go, making better traction than you would ever dream of in snow. it can be almost like a cogged railway. and yes i have both manual and full auto units.
I drive dump trucks and I think the Cat 6 spd automatic downshifted rough but it was good and got the same mileage as 8ll trucks doing the same thing, the Allison 4500s I've driven were smooth and great at everything I tried with them. Especially milling!
I would of agreed with your view of transmission choices you delineated by usage. That is until I put together a dump truck with a Allison RDS 4500 transmission, I believed that the only reason to have the Auto was so any idiot could drive it, I was wrong. The Automatic is gentler on the truck, gentler on the driver too, plus much safer. It's surprising how much mentally we spend paying attention to shifting, rolling at stops, working to not get stopped on a hill and a myriad of other thing that become second nature to driving a truck. Automatic makes all those things go away, you don't even realize it's happening till you've spent a substantial amount of seat time with the Automatic! The Automatic makes a good driver even better, a beginning driver tolerable:) Except for cross country or long haul trucking, the Allison would be the best choice for most applications(especially for a dump truck) you mentioned:)
It is a great choice for most things. Now, where the difference sits is in the price. The Allison is quite a bit more expensive and with the current crop of Automated transmission working as well as they do, they're a great option also.
Kenworth of Richfield oh ok one of those automated but of course when mentioned to me was called an automatic that still has the clutch pedal....oh ok ive never seen it before but was told that there was an automatic with a clutch but as I’ve learned here its an automated not automatic lol! Or are u just talking about the clutch itself in the engine vs a clutch pedal??
I think autos are great in dump trucks but not in a semi truck as ive heard especially going down a steep hill its not good at all, you have to use the brake way more as the engine doesn't really slow the truck down at all
So true about the diferent transmition some may no understand but love this video was great and honest we have to know what's best for the job we do all are great gear boxes
I currently drive for a concrete company in South Carolina, and I've driven both Automatic and Manual trucks; when I started working there, I was driving an automatic truck (Allison 4500 RDS 6-speed), and the truck I'm driving now has an Eaton 9LL.
Both transmissions have their benefits and drawbacks; the automatic allows the driver to fully focus on driving the truck instead of worrying about the next shift, while the manual allows the driver total control of when the shifts happens (the deep reduction gears in the 9LL are very helpful in off-road and other slow speed situations). The downside of an automatic is that the driver doesn't have direct control of when the shifts happen, while the downsides of a manual are power interruption between shifts and more energy expended while shifting during the day
You got it Peter. There's advantages and disadvantages to both......all depending on what you're going to do with it.
Or you could switch the automatic into manual mode and control when shifts happen?
Specially when You are first learning to drive the truck with a trailer. You need to be more focused on the road and the trailer so you dont get into an accident. I almost hit a car with my trailer because i was more concerned of not stalling in the middle of an intersection than to pay attention to my turns and my trailers. Safety reasons automatic is WAY better.
My left knee loves the automatic transmission
...and hip...and calf muscle.....
@The Bois depends on the job. I'm not gonna bother going into detail but I've spent enough time riding the clutch to move an inch at a time. I love allison autos for what I do. That said if I was otr and it was my truck I'd go manual.
@The Bois 👍
My soul hates the automatic
Then you're not a real truck driver you're just a steering wheel holder🤣
He said if you dont know what a manual in a truck..................... Google it 😂😂💀
I mean......you should at least know what it is even if you can't operate it. :D
Exactly lol keep up the good work boss!
@@KenworthofRichfield You sell any trucks with the Allsion TC10? If so, I'd love on video on one of those!
If you don't know what it is - it sure is not the right transmission for you.
@@murdoch9106 We haven't sold one yet. If we do....I'll be sure to do a video on it.
We would like to know more about the automated trans in the green t680 how it works vs differentiates from the ultrashift plus!
I'll have to work on this one. Hopefully, I can do a better "side by side" in an upcoming video. Keep your eyes out for it.
Same here. Thanks, Josh. BTW, love the videos. Keep up the good work!
I spent several years in the Marine Corps as a tanker. The 70+ ton tank with 1500+ horsepower and gobs of torque used an Allison transmission. Damn near bulletproof. You're never going to get the old farts out of the three pedal trucks.
the day 3-pedaled trucks die will call for a celebration.
Pxthfinder Why is that? I like manuals. My patience likes autos.
No chance of fixing or working around the Allison going out when it does go out out on the road and when it does it’ll be a costly fix, the manual you’ve much better chance of Jimmie rigging something to get you home not to mention the price difference it’s fairly easy to see why old truckers and small operations will always run a manual
Caleb Guiton Maybe not always but for the time being youre right. People in my grandfathers day thought automatics would never work in autos yet here we are.
You know when he showed the pedals I saw 4 just like my Thatsoon 240Z
I’m retired now, but I have driven manual and automated trannies over the road. I’m still on the fence for OTR applications. I also drove fire trucks for over 26 years. For emergency vehicles the full auto trans is the way to go. Modern Allison transmissions are very smooth. The circuitous routes that were typical of fire responses are way easier with a full auto trans as that allows you to focus on the task of arriving safely at the destination. You never have to worry about shifting into the proper gear. And, many firefighters of the younger generation don’t handle manual transmissions proficiently.
There are certain applications where you need a specific transmission for one thing or another. Emergency vehicles definitely work better with automatics. Especailly fire tankers. OTR.....the automated transmission has really show how great of a thing it can be over the past few years.
can't see myself driving a manual on a large city...too much stop and go....Manual trans for me is fun, i love being in control of the truck, but as i said too much stop and go kills the joy
I just got mine new T680 with paccar motor , once the deal was done , I picked up my truck i had lot of questions about maintainance and other things , the sales man said don't worry i will find out for you , till now , nothing from their side , can you explain about the proper maintainance to keep the truck moving smoothly , thanks
All of the scheduled maintenance should be in your truck and engine owners manuals. If you go by what that says, you'll have a long life from that engine!
I am not a trucker, but I always wondered why these trucks they were calling automatic always sounded like it was still a manual. Interesting stuff.
Yup! It's really an "automated" transmission instead of an automatic. It's a manual transmission operated with a computer and a couple of solenoids.
@@KenworthofRichfield Is it possible to convert an "automated manual" to a real manual?
@@shutupshutup2713People have done it with Ferraris with the F1 automated manual. Of course, a Ferrari 430 is way different than a Kenworth semi. But I think it’s probably possible.
My mt4000 alison in a road truck works great. Wouldn't have anything else. 1325 rpms at 65 mph with 3.73 gears. Can't bet how smooth it runs.
Makes sense. :D When you've got it, you've got it.
I too can't settle less than Allison. It's smooth and have quicker gear change. This means a lot stressful driving with Allison. Also have better acceleration off traffic lights. Mind you I somewhat have an opportunity to compare on our stupid 100kmh motorway/highway with traffic lights. The Allison transmission truck got off very quickly compared to a manual (probably Eaton who knows).
How bout a vid on durability, breakdown, maintenance costs, MPG consistency. When the auto's are new I am sure they are rockin.
Yes
Pretty decent explanations of the pros/cons. Two questions that I'd like to see answered: 1) What is the weight difference among them (use the RDS 4500/4700 for the Allison), and 2) what is the real world approximate cost difference up front? I'll be retiring in a few years and looking real hard at putting together a SuperC RV, and the foundation is still kind of up in the air.
Allison does weigh more from what I've seen, but it's not a huge difference. The pricing is. THe Allison is anywhere from $15-20k more than a manual where as the UltraShift is $3-5k more.
Holy Moses!
@@KenworthofRichfield 15+20k? what the heck :- s
I have a DSG (dual-shift gearbox) in a VW Passat. This is also an automated manual, using 2 clutches, the side-by-side gear assemblies and super fast shifting. One set of gears in 1,3 and 5. The other set of gears is 2,4,6. When I start out in 1st, the other clutch is waiting to engage in 2nd. The shifting is nearly instantaneous, confirmed by how the tach snaps to the new gear. I doubt with all the mass of a large diesel engine this would work as well, unless that rpm change was dampened just a little.
In Eurpoe, they are running dual clutch transmissions. I'm not sure that we need that here, but you never know what will happen. :D
Volvo has the I-shift dual clutch transmission. Those using it, really like it. Especially during mountain crossing. There’s no interruption of power, AND, not to forget, constant jake brake. Accept during hi/lo range shifts. As of today, it looks like Volvo is still the only manufacturer that offers a dual clutch transmission made for heavy vehicles. I didn’t manage to find any other alternatives right now.
Our company purchased t680's with 10 speed automated transmissions. I like that there is no clutch pedal to stretch out your legs but that's about it. The truck does not accelerate going down a on ramp if the ramp has any down grade until it levels out. We changed our shift parameters from 1500 to 1800, they were just to slow to get up to speed. (450 isx Cummins). I thought they would really be nice but would prefer manual again. Most of the time I'll shift in the manual mode instead of the automated mode especially downshifts with the Jake on. We have had some issues with the wiring and sensers on the transmission resulting in a tow back to the shop.
Interesting and thatnks for the comment. It not shifting on a downgrade seems like a programming issue. Have you talked with Eaton about it directly?
Well explained sir... Automated manuals are of course very different from standard automatic, since (like you said) all the internals are that of a manual transmission. You can operate the Automated tractor in a semi-automatic/manual mode where you have control of the gears, or you can let the computers and hydraulics take over for you, so they can depress and actuate the clutch, and automate the clutch and gear shift control.
Great video buddy!!!
Thanks Michael! Was a fun one to do. There will be more like that coming soon also. :D
In November my truck will be paid off and I’m buying a manual. I run a lot of steep twisty roads and I’m constantly messing with my automatic. Switching from economy to performance to manual, jakes on, Jakes off. It’s tiring. With a auto tranny, no only do you have to worry about the engine and after treatment messing up, you also have to worry of the damn thing is going to shift when you need it to. Plus, all the dealers are so packed with broken down trucks, it’s would be nice to have a manual where any roadside shop could work on it in less than a day without some special computer. I’ll never buy another one until autos are the only option. I regret it big time
Jake on, jake off - all trucks here have infinitely variable hydrodynamic brakes. Jakes not to much oldschool?
Robert Owen most trucks here have only 3 jake settings per gear
@@hannatrucking Ok. I misunderstand. You dont mean engine brake, you mean high/low gear?
The ZF-gearbox have physicly 3 speed unsynchronized with high/low input and high/low output, the computer count 12 speeds on display. And 2 speeds reverse. Mercedes has 3 speeds reverse.
Here's something that you can or might want to dive into concerning these transmissions. The weight difference between the 4. Or is there really a big difference in weight between the 4.
I've heard that the Allisons were heavier, but I'm not sure. I know we have 2 trucks that are almost identical except for the transmission and 22.5 vs 24.5 on the rear and the truck with the manual and 22.5 wheels and tires was 300 lbs lighter than the truck with the Allison and 24.5 wheels and tires.
Thanks Wayne! I've actially got a few things like that that I was going to dive into, but I hadn't thought of that one. I dig it!!!!!
Great video. What would be your recommendation for driving in mountains / on grades?
I would've liked seeing inside the truck and actually what you were talking about. Such as it is you might as well did the whole thing in German or French or...you get the idea.
It makes sense, Lee, but a lot of people do have experience with each.
You can haul heavy equipment with an automated transmission as well.
So, at the end which is better for hauling tankers? Also to install hydraulic pump on a new truck still warranty cover?
Yup! a properly installed and spec'd PTO will not void a warranty unless it's the PTO that caused the problem. For a tanker, an Allison would be great, but really close behind that and probably the best value would be the Paccar Automated transmission.
Love my 8ll for getting in and out of some tough places with alot of weight on local runs. Test drove the ultra shift, wasn't for me.
I can understand that. It takes some adapting.
Man i so hope that you will answer under my comment 🙏
I have purchased 2020 Peterbilt 579 x15 efficiency series 500hp, ultrashift plus mhp 13 speed automated transmission and meritor plus 3.42 gears with airtrak suspension..
Truck was made in 07/2019
Fuck... 5.6-6.0 maximum mpg with 78-79k load reefer at 70-72 mph speed ( 1480-1580 rpm)
Yeah i have 6800 miles on it but fuck..i am worrying will my mpg grow up with time?
Also my pete 579 with that airtrak raises my reefer trailer so high like truck is 13.5 and reefer was 13.8(now its 13.7,deflated airbags a bit)
Will EPIQ package help me a bit do you know if trailer is 2 inches higher than truck?
Then Ultrashift plus. Okay overall i like it on highway but on backing up to the door it’s a painful 😖
Jumps a lot, if i use R1,i often get CA message in dash ( clutch abuse)
R2 starts too fast and i am about to hit another truck if i am really close to him.
How to activate creep mode on reverse if manual and low mode work only in D position. How to activate urge in move??
Will it help me to avoid clutch abuse and if i got truck and trailer like in « Г » position, either in left or right side, it jumps and shakes truck and trailer a lot and every time!
In what year new ultrashift plus were upgraded/ updated? If my 2020 truck were made in 07/2019, i got the old or new version?
Just i wish to know about mpg, i was expecting 6.5-7 mpg with reefer 80k at 70 mph, but i have 5.5-6.0 with 2017 emission x15 500 hp efficiency series and 3.42 gears .. where i am fucked up? With airtrak that raises trailer above truck cabin or because the truck is a little bit raised with clearance in compare to another pete 579/kenworth t680?
How to avoid clutch abuse while backing up in really tough places where i need often pull forward for couple feets and back up for couple feets a lot of times ? I have like R1 R2 and kinda R3,which I cannot activate while i am staying. R1 is lower 1st gear and R2 is higher 1st gear correct ?
Sorry i am just so upset, idk what to do and how to explain another my drivers how to not break the ultrashift transmission..
please help me!
Let God Bless You! 🙏
P.S. if this setup is really bad, will x15 efficiency series 500hp with endurant 12 speed auto transmission and 2.85 meritor axle ratio better? And which setup will be more reliable : the #1 i have now with my pete 579 or #2 i have described here in P.S. for reefer 80k going 70mph. Thank you!!!
And for ultrashift plus 13 speed transmission how many miles the clutch may live? Or after how many miles i need to change the clutch ? Like in 300.000-350.000 miles?
What should i do in backing up in tough places if eaton video says like don’t use two pedal(brake and gas often) but if I have to act like press gas pedal, then press brake because truck is shaking and start to drive in reverse too fast in R2 position ( i press “turn off hill assist button, i know about 3 secs delay so i keep “turn hill assist off” in backing up and if i use R1, the Clutch abuse warning comes earlier than i am in R2), turn steering wheel on opposite site, drive forward, press brake, turn steering wheel all the way to the left, press gas, then press brake and i got this fucking clutch abuse warning... i have been driving volvo vnl860/freightliner cascadia with 12 speed automatic transmission and never have had any problems like that, what should i do? How to backing up correctly with ultrashift plus? I would very appreciate with your answers, i think i am not the one with such situation, your reply may help another guys too!
I like the transmission and setup on highway overall. I really enjoy with it, but mpg and backing up are painful and stressful 😭😢
Maybe i do something wrong or I don’t know something..
About x15 2017 year emission, will my mpg grow up after like 50.000-60.000 miles if right now i have 6800?
Or i have to change the hardware like buy and put hardware from 2020/2021 efficientcy series and put in in my 2017 model year engine?
Thank you again dude ! 🙏
One other reason to run a conventional manual - a lot of areas in the nation there is little to no access to a shop facility that can work on computerized, or even automatic, transmissions and engine systems; the nearest facility might be hours or even days away meaning a substantial cost of remote service or tow. But about any rural shop can probably effect a repair on a basic manual gearbox and get a guy up and running again. Ease of use is a great thing, but it comes at the price of complexity and can increase the cost of ownership if the worst happens.
You didnt speak about the ALLISON RDS 4500 SERIES for the dump application. Please do a video comparing the ALLISON 4500 RDS to the EATON ULTRASHIFT.
We've got one here. I'll see if I can get it done!
What's the safety backup system for the electronic gearbox?
What will happen if the electrical system fails?
To me mechanical gearboxes are more robust and better than any electrical controlled gearbox.
Thanks for watching Philip! All of them are really well built items. As long as you don't beat them, they'll give you years of great service. With the UltraShift, it's actually the same case, gears, and other items as the manual transmission which have already proven themselves over the years. On the electronic gearbox, initially there were a few issues, but no, they really have become extremely reliable. It's not too often that we hear about an issue with them. As far as a "safety backup" for a failure, there really isn't on. If you're worried about the transmission not working on a hill, I'll say this, "It's no more likely to fail than a U Joint."
Philip
The company I work with we have 3 trucks with the auto shift. The short answer to your question is, the transmission will usually get stuck in neutral, it's not cheap to fix either around $2500 , after the parts get fixed, the transmission computer and the engines computer have to be connected so each computer can communicate with each other.
The $2500, doesn't include the tow bill either.
Still what about a smoothbore tanker especially backing up climbing hills and going downhill, tankers are totally different from vanloads ! cargo moves
They are very different. Any of these transmissions can work for this, there's just some different adaptations that will need to be made weather it need to be made by the driver or the programming.
Pfft shows what you know your a dealer not a driver stop spreading bull shit
Josh - Another excellent video!!! Can't express how GREAT a job you do explaining things in your videos. For your sake i hope Paccar is paying attention and they pay you a whole lot of dough someday soon to be their corporate spokesman. Only question is: Have you heard anything about, or suspect there will be, an upgrade to the Endurant, by adding gears to the 12 in it currently? More gears in the overdrive range might help with fuel economy is the reason i ask.
Thanks Stew! I have a ton of fun doing them. In this, I'm not sure if there are plans to come out with more gears inside that box. It's very very close to the same OD as the 18 speed currently. In this, most of the trucks that we are spec'ing for this transmission, we're running 2.79 gears in to make sure that we've got the mileage. 1st is low enough that even at 80k, you shouldn't have any issues getting a move on. :D Are you currently running one? What ratio rears?
Are they even still making the Eaton fuller automated with the clutch petal? I have one in my 2009 T-800. I hated it at first, but now I’ve grown accustomed to it. For around town, stop and go driving, I prefer the Allison automatic. For OTR work, I’m still a fan of the manual. If I was going to buy my own truck, it would have the 18 speed manual, it’s just a personal preference.
Automatics and automated transmissions seems to be the way of the future for most larger companies, I can see it’s place, and I think it’s a good training tool, get new driver accustomed to the size of the vehicle in an automated or automatic first, then add in the manual shifting. But that’s just the way I see it.
THere are no automated with a manual clutch anymore. The new automated transmissions are pretty slick.
Quite informative and I want to replay this
Thanks! I do my best to help educate people and let them decide what's right for their business.
I just bought a 07 kw with an Allison 4500rds to build a rolloff and for that application I like it.
For an application like that, it's a great trans!
Not to mention pre-emissions
best most clearest explanation i ever heard about transmissions 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
but i stil ignorant lol so all i wanna know if you drive over the road with a dry van which one will you choose or be the best and easiest to work?????or any difference on snow ??
It depends on you as a driver. If you're willing to learn how to work with it instead of working against it, then you want the automated.
Kenworth of Richfield 👍🏻thank u
Yay!!!You're back my buddy!. What's best for heavy haul Boss?
Blue Ribbons haha! Thanks! I’m back and ready to go with some new topics. :)
Got ideas for me also?
Kenworth of Richfield How about going back into the great debate of who's got the better truck for the buck!
I forgot to answer part of the question.....sorry about that. Heavy Haul.....we've actually got a few guys running an 18 speed UltraShift and they love it so far.
You did not mention PTO's and how they are different with the different transmissions. When running a hook lift or roll back it is a must. With the 18 speed as soon a you press the clutch in it disengages the PTO and you lose all hydraulic functions, which makes loading a container on a hill very difficult.
Yup! Yet another reason as to why each transmission has places where it works the best!
Live hydraulic upgrade, run off the crank, clutch in or out you can use your PTO
In my experience, it's a lot easier to use PTO with Allison transmission since you don't have to worry about having to use a clutch. In general, it's really a big pain in the backside having depress the clutch everytime you need to use PTO with manuals. With Allison on the other hand, you can simply slide to neutral if needed.
For heavy haul over gcvw, what is the fail rate for the Allison vs an 8ll? The rto16908ll brochure says gcvw=140000lbs online catalog says 110000. If I pulled a tractor trailer setup w/ the 8ll at 14k vs the Allison which would fail 1st?
What type of transmission would be best for all of those applications
Another great video. I like that the automated still has a clutch but what happens when the computer goes out? Stuck on the side of the road singing along with your greatest Brittney Spears songs? I still prefer that 3rd petal due to that fact that I haul heavy equipment in steep country.
Thanks Jason! I really do enjoy putting these together. The computers have proved to be very, very reliable over the years in these. Sometimes, a wiring or electrical component issue will come up...but for the most part, we've seen really great reliability out of these. There's been a few instances of issues....I won't deny it. But the overall benefit to 99% of the people running them have far outweighted the drawbacks. At least if used in the right application.
PS.......Your Brittney Spears secret is not safe with me. I may be calling you out on this one in one of the next few videos.... :D
You're right, but that's not even happened in 17 years for me. So far I have only failed because of tire damage.
wait so in an automated truck thats mainly controlled by the computer will fail if the computer fails?😬
Recently bought a used peterbuilt 579 with the ultrashift. I converted the truck to pull my Fifth wheel rv for recreational use. Coming from a 2020 ram 3500 cummins to this was a shock when it came to transmission. First thing I noticed is I couldn't take off from a stop light and have quick acceleration and lags from the automated short shifting. So on that not I cannot merge quickly onto a highway this is a real safety concern. Had I known this I would of thought twice before purchasing
That's where automatics are advantageous
What would be best for hauling gravel in a belly dump trailer?
Honestly, any one of them would be a good pick depending on terrain. We have a lot of guys that run 10 speed ultrashifts or 18 speed ultrashifts for applications like that and love them.
@@KenworthofRichfield Flat terrain, building gravel roads. 50/50 highway & gravel / sand terrain.
@@rubbersole79 Any one of them could be great for you. Budget is the next concern. To me, an automated would do really well in this.
Way would trucks not have power shifts like we have on big equipment like tractor's?
I'm not quite sure. I would think that it comes down to parasitic load as I know the power shifts aren't the most efficient
Hi. My truck is a 10 speed manual (Eaton) the gears stock was on high range (I was told that this was a minor issue) But The mechanic told me it's a big damage, they need to rebuild it for $ 3500 without labor!!!. I agreed. Then I found out, that he replaced it with another one, that one doesn't have a cooler (my transmission had one) tell me please if what the mechanic did is right/okay?. Should I accept this transmission ( the new one without the cooler)?
He's working on the truck now, haven't finished yet.. I still have time... should I accept what he did or not?? Please reply 🙏
So basically, since I only have a controller and no shifter on American Truck Simulator, what I though was an automatic transmission is really an automated transmission, especially since I can feel all the shifts?
That's right
You got it!!!!!
well, I have a small Vauxhall Corsa with a semi-automatic gearbox ..........it's semi-automatic as it has a normal conventional manual gearbox, it is just that the gear changes are made by an "actuator" that takes the place of the clutch and changes the gears but when needed I can use the manual mode and just pushing or pulling the gear level to change gears.
I wonder if there's a difference in hauling power between the allison trans vs the endurant trans.
They work differently, so yes and no. The engine is still generating the same power and torque. The Allison uses a bit more power (higher parasitic load) but qith the torque multiplication of the torque converter, it lets the engine stretch it's power creation in a way if that makes sense.
@@KenworthofRichfield so this essentially means the automatic transmission may or may not haul a fully loaded trailer, as its primarily depended on multiple factors? As an OTR, I am starting to lean into the endurant trans for durability, unless I've missed something. I'm very used to automated transmissions, even if I've made the same misconception in calling it an automatic transmission. I haul 70-80K trailers regularly and don't want to overstress a transmission that isn't built for that level hauling. Use the right tool for the job, as the saying goes.
@@OrtexofWill Are you running 70-80k gross or is that just the payload? If that's gross, I'd go with the Endurant. It's a great transmission. It works the same as a manual, just with the computer controlling everything. If you're running at 100k+, then we can look at an UltraShift that will work for your application.
As an OTR, I'll assume that you're running gross of 70-80k and to me, the Endurant is a great option for you.
@@KenworthofRichfield my loads as an otr reefer gross at around 40k. Sorry, I forgot gross weight and total vehicle weight were two different things. Whoops!
The international LT that I'm driving has an automated manual 10 speed and I hate it the clutch never knows when to actually engage, backing is the most annoying because your throttle input half the time it slingshots you back or nothing happens at all for a solid 3 seconds. When I was driving a Cascadia with the 12 speed Auto never had any of these issues and the Cascadia had crawl control which was very nice because it actually reacted how you wanted it to.
A lot of it comes down to the programming. I might check with your dealership to see if they can change the program for you.
I like the sound of the endurant, does it have manual mode and 3 step engine braking on the steering column ? I'm a control freak and love manual but that endurant sounds like a meat and 3 veg complete feast with gravy. That painted no chrome look is cool. Edit: Found the video of T680 thanks.
Yes it does
I'm guessing the trend toward automatic and automated transmissions is because of a lack of drivers who are able to drive a manual or a lack of drivers who can drive a manual well. A generic computer program is probably safer and more efficient than a poorly trained manual trans driver.
It's a shame really, because even taking the manual shifting out of the equation, there are more drivers than ever on the road who shouldn't be allowed near an 18 wheeler. Choosing the right gear for the conditions and load is part of what made truck driving a skilled profession. You now have a large percentage of drivers who can't shift, can't back into a dock, and can't maneuver the truck with any proficiency whatsoever.
And that's why driver pay will never get any better than it is now. Driving has been distilled down to the lowest common denominator. What does all the recruiting literature say ? "Anyone can be a truck driver." When anyone can do it, it is no longer a skilled job.
You're partly right, but not totally. In this, it really is easier, safer, and in 90% of cases more fuel efficient than a manual transmission.
I've been a truck driver for just only over three years, but what I've noticed is I had/have a ton of more energy after a day's work with an automatic. I've had my 8LL for over two years, working my dump truck from sun up to sun down and when I get off, I'm tired. I've driven for people when I can't find work who have automatics and all I can say is to hell with a manual... I'd rather have the energy to want to play withy kid when he wants rather than to have to willfully motivate myself because I'm tired. I see automated or automatics will provide a person less wear and tear on their body.
I absolutely agree with both of your replies. I have been driving semis for 10 years. Most of that time I was driving 90,000 lb pump trucks. Our company started buying Western Stars with automatics, and at first I was a "naysayer". After driving one for about a month, I will take the automatic ANY DAY!
1. You can focus more on the road, or while backing up, so its safer, even if by only a small margin. For new drivers, its a BIG margin.
2. They get better fuel mileage.
3. They are a godsend in traffic or on hills where other vehicles want to pull up on your rear bumper in stop and go traffic.
4. I am a lot less tired at the end of 14 hour day when I drive a automatic. I also noticed I feel less stressed as well, especially in traffic.
These are all undeniable benefits that even the most seasoned truck driver can benefit from.
Really cool presentation Mr.Kenworth 👍
Thank you kindly
makes complete sense to anyone who has common sense or drove or drives a truck
The common sense one is the tough one :D
Never driven anything bigger than a dually but it makes sense, if you know what a manual is it makes sense lol
just wondering about weight difference?
And cost difference.
Great video presentation on the different transmission options. It's very clear. Thanks!
Thanks Duncan!
Do the autom and the automat have Jake's on them?
If you have sometimes heavy but mostly light automated is the way to go if you're constantly hauling big heavy loads like I do on every day's basis and going through steep hills manual transmission is the way both are good just like you said for the application take it or leave it
can you a drive test those 3?
We' have a project like this coming up in the near future.
He won't talk about it, but the only one I trust in snow, ice, and reverse is a manual transmission.
I’m with Garry. I don’t have to deal with a computer programmer’s sense of how that truck should operate. He may be all that and a bag of chips with software but I’m still not convinced that automatic or automated trucks will ever be able to out perform a highly skilled driver with the correct attitude.
I drove an Eaton Fuller automated 10 speed and never had an issue in bad weather, and if you're concerned about what the computer will do in those conditions you can hit the M button, set your gear and the trans won't shift out of it unless you want it to.
Automateds are nowhere near as bad as people think.
@Stian Myrdal Laursen Lmfao whoever told you that shit lied to you son
@@UncleSpuddy lmfao yeah ok...they are complete garbage
@@aaronsanborn4291 Go ahead and guard your pathetic stick in the ground.
Paper logs are gone, and companies are switching to automated transmissions in mass.
I get paid to deliver, doesn't matter what truck I'm in.
Better then me bcuz ima choose the manual regardless what im doing and yes even in a dump truck and especially over the road! I was taught in dump trucks doing asphalt and milling with a manual so it’s not a headache to me as i was told it would be! Otr to me definitely requires a manual bcuz i want control of my truck on mountains and in adverse weather conditions etc, I only trust me in those areas or conditions with 80,000 pounds not a computer lol! Heavy haul speaks for itself so no need for me to even mention my reason for a manual with heavy haul lol!
💯% Agreed....it's not even a choice for me.....Do It Yourself Manual or nothing....
Which Did U Pick? Automatic Or Automated. Buying A Semi For OTR!
Automated gives the best fuel mileage and is still super simple to operate.
@@KenworthofRichfield ,,aThank U Very Much .
Excellent .. Best explanation I've heard yet. Always enjoy your videos.
Thanks Jeffrey! There's still quite a bit left to explain on these, but hopefully this gets people a good start! Glad you enjoy as I have fun putting them together.
@@KenworthofRichfield keep up the work. Very entertaining
I only keep manuals in my fleet
If it works for you, it works for you! Can't blame you for that.
Manual is the ONLY way to go
Agreed. When I looked for a new job recently, I passed on a lot of jobs because I wanted a manual truck, and the fleet managers just sat there blinking at me like an idiot.
@@stoparret that’s why I get better drivers in my fleet. I don’t want a steering wheel holder
@@andrewhatton1606 I am inclined to agree. I know there are some older drivers who benefit from automatics because of worn knees, but most driver who's any good and enjoys the lifestyle of trucking, knows and enjoys manual trucks. All that aside, I am mystified why fleets don't buy at least a couple of manual trucks to attract the drivers that demand them. I just don't get it...
You forgot twin sticks :P
I didn't forget them....I just know that most of the truck driving population wasn't born yet when the last of those came off of the line. LOL
I drove that once. My respect to all those people and my dad who drove those with one arm all in one motion.
@@bmartinez2086 Those guys kept busy. lol
Especially the old 5 into 4s with no synchros. Learn how to shift one of those smoothly, everything from then on is a walk in the park. 😉
This guy is good, probably a great salesman. A great video with a lot of detail. Makes me want to go out and buy a new Kenworth.
Hey guys isn't there power loss in a (automatic) vs manual transmission
Yes and no. A torque converter automatic actually does use some power to run the pumps and that, so there is a bit of a loss, but not what it once was. Now, when it comes to an automated, it's exactly the same power to move that transmisison as it is an automated.
Can I override the automated transmission? is there still a clutch pedal that I can use?
No. The clutch is controlled by the computer, and not very well from my standpoint. The T680 I drive sucks. It won't let me start above 3rd gear (pulling a pup trailer) and if it detects an upslope it starts in 1st. Then it often skips gears so it ends up lugging and not having much torque. When using the cruise control it derates the Jake brakes, I'm not sure why. If I set the cruise and coast over that point it shifts into neutral, which I thought was illegal and totally unsafe. The shifts are as slow as a new rookie driver would do so uphill starts can totally fail. You can put it in manual mode but there are still limits to what it will let you do. A total piece of junk in my opinion. Boss says every manufacturer wants $10k more for manual these days.
hey bud, like the videos; but please for the love of my ears, level your intro music to your vocals; it scares the crap outta me every time your intro runs 2 times louder lol
Working on it! I usually bring it down to -8 db.....but I may have forgotten on this one. :D
BossManC 😂😆😂
For sure!
I drive a 2019 Kenworth daycab with the automated manual and what I don’t like is the delay when you hit the gas pedal. Up to 3 seconds. Why is it so bad and is that fixable.
There is not a delay. Take off the hill assist and you can apply the accelerator much quicker.
What John said :D
Which ones are compatible with a PTO?
Every last one of them. :D They all work, but they all work differently with the PTO and that's why Hooklift trucks and that run the Allison as it's constant PTO power where as anything else loses PTO power when the clutch is pressed in.
Perfect, thank you!
Can you have one more explanation on automated transmission
Great video giving more understanding to the difference 👍🏾
Thanks YungDiddy! I'm working on a few more of these and hope to have them rolling out over the next few weeks. If you've got a suggestion, let me know!
I got pulled over at colorado wheigh station. He asked me if I have a manual transmission or automatic. I told him it is automated manual transmission. Since I have restriction on my drivers license for AT only. He didn't bother to come and check if I was driving a manual.
Once we, employees of a certain company in a city in the Netherlands, were driven by bus to another city to demonstrate against something. I noticed that near the driver's seat there was a selector handle like that of an automatic, but how the bus drove, felt like a manual, for me as a passenger. I couldn't see the engine brand, but on the selector it said ZF AS-tronic. When our bus shifted, it fell a whole bus length back versus the other of our two buses. Each of the two buses had a female driver. I told our driver about what I wondered about the transmission. She said it could be shifted either automatically or manually. I didn't dare to ask her whether she had been shifting manually or letting it shift automatically most of the time. The other bus was a Volvo, so I suppose it had a Volvo i-Shift. I have never driven a bus or a truck, but as far as hear / read from truck drivers on the internet, Volvo I-Shift is beyond reproach. Once I saw a UA-cam video comparing various old-timer and contemporary trucks, emphasizing the ease or difficulty of the gearbox. The development went from non-synchronized to synchronized. Then there was a very new M.A.N. with an automated non-synchronized gearbox that shifted faster and smoother than the newest synchronized one. Once when I was googling about the things I wondered about the riding experience in that bus, I saw somewhere that in trucks and buses with an automated transmission, there is a databus between the transmission control unit and the engine control unit. I suppose that is for automated rpm matching during shifting.
Looking into a CT10, get any of those?
Unfortunately, we do not currently.
Thank you for clearing these up, well know automatic and manual but the other two l had no clue now l do. Keep up the good work.
As an older driver driving in more urban driving and some suburban driving I chose the Allison automatic.
I wanna drive truck do i NEED to learn how to shift???
It's helpful to know.....but not a requirement.
Sounds like the endurant (green) is a dual clutch direct shift.
It is actually only a single clutch, but they've got it dialed in so it shifts quick!
Can u explain 2000 or less had automated or not if yes which one ?
Also price to replace it
Very informative. When I was in high school I got to ride in a school bus with an automatic transmission. 1981 I believe was the year the bus was an International. It shifted pretty good with a definite lag between gears though and an audible whine.
I think I rode that same bus......and I can tell you that things have changed a bit with all of the transmissions....and the busses. :D
heavy haul 120 K plus, definitely 18 gear jammer
My company provided truck is an automated t680, gotta say I'm really not a fan. It tends to shift in the most inconvenient times, hangs up in one gear spinning the engine, also sometimes going up a hill it can't decide which gear to use and goes back and forth a few times. Worst part is the manual mode is useless because i can't go over a certain rpm. Looking for a new company that has manual trucks now because the company i work for only has automated now.
If your truck is an earlier model, I could see that as happening. Has the the truck been in to get the programming updated?
@@KenworthofRichfield I'm not sure, I've had it back in an MHC Kenworth 3 times for the issues and comes back the same
@@orion3074 I'd ask if the programming has been updated or what program is in the truck currently to see if they can change it for you.
Also dont forget back when the automated transmissions had a clutch pedal lol.
Yeah......not covering those dark days. LOL
For me it only makes sense to cover the items that we have available or that we can order.
I have the automated with the clutch with a Detroit 60 12.7 pre emissions in a 2002 Columbia expediter … it took some getting used to !!! 😂😂😂 I was accustomed to manuals or straight automatics … but I actually love the truck now it gives me the control of a manual in tight spots and ease of an automatic on the road…. The only bad part is you still have to clutch in low speed stop and go traffic …
What is "semi-automatic" versus "automatic" transmission?
I drove a 10 speed autmated that had a clutch pedal in it absolutely loved it do they still make that one it was a joy nice to back up with and you could manually shift it with a T shaped stick which was nice going down hill you could control speed better then in traffic you could let it do its thing absolutely the nicest setup that i ever drove been at it for almost 60 years would like to have another
I’m surprised he didn’t mention the huge difference in engine braking between a clutch and torque converter. Having a direct connection between drivetrain and flywheel makes a huge difference over how a torque converter functions
Good point! It's one of those things that I feel and know, but a point that I missed in discussion. I'll be doing an update in the next few months and we'll be covering that there.
most torque converters these days can lock up even a Toyota Camry's torque converter will lock up and direct drive.
Could you do heavy haul with an Allison?
YES! There's a lot of guys that are doing that currently
Chris Moody yes, the M1 Abrams tanks weighs 66 tons and uses an Allison. The truck that was designed specifically to haul it uses a Detroit Diesel and an Allison.
So one automated has the lag between shifts like a manual. The other has no lag and shifts fast like an automatic.
I drive a tow truck in a hilly terrain city centre. Here, the automatic Allison 2500 RDS is king.
Totally makes sense for that application.
Just started driving a Kenworth 2021 dump truck automatic nice
The W900L i’m looking to buy has an automatic and i’m so excited!
Aside from the Allison being much more expensive up front, they’re much more expensive to maintain if you’re to keep their warranty and keep them in good working conditions.
There is more to it, but they do last forever if done right and also, the constant torque and controllability is a huge benefit for some applications. It's all about finding what works for your specific business.
on off hwy like a front discharge mixer truck (or in my case a boom truck that gets into extreme situations).. automatic all the way. its the way they put the power to the ground. nothing beats full auto trying to get onto a snow covered lot. the trick is to go as slow as you can. the snow compresses and freezes in the treads as you go, making better traction than you would ever dream of in snow. it can be almost like a cogged railway. and yes i have both manual and full auto units.
I’m still confused on the endurant.
I drive dump trucks and I think the Cat 6 spd automatic downshifted rough but it was good and got the same mileage as 8ll trucks doing the same thing, the Allison 4500s I've driven were smooth and great at everything I tried with them. Especially milling!
I would of agreed with your view of transmission choices you delineated by usage. That is until I put together a dump truck with a Allison RDS 4500 transmission, I believed that the only reason to have the Auto was so any idiot could drive it, I was wrong. The Automatic is gentler on the truck, gentler on the driver too, plus much safer. It's surprising how much mentally we spend paying attention to shifting, rolling at stops, working to not get stopped on a hill and a myriad of other thing that become second nature to driving a truck. Automatic makes all those things go away, you don't even realize it's happening till you've spent a substantial amount of seat time with the Automatic! The Automatic makes a good driver even better, a beginning driver tolerable:)
Except for cross country or long haul trucking, the Allison would be the best choice for most applications(especially for a dump truck) you mentioned:)
It is a great choice for most things. Now, where the difference sits is in the price. The Allison is quite a bit more expensive and with the current crop of Automated transmission working as well as they do, they're a great option also.
Great video!!! You explained it very well!! 👌🏽💪🏾
Thanks Dre!!!!! I have a ton of fun doing these. If you've got a suggestion for another one, let me know as I'm all ears!!!!
My neck and shoulder don't never want a stick. Plus all the room and great features. APU is excellent
Yeah im still lost between the automatic and the fully automated which is the one that was designed to be automated from the jump!
The biggest differences-
Automatic- Torque converter with clutch packs and planetary gearsets.
Automated- Clutch with standard helical cut gears.
Kenworth of Richfield oh ok one of those automated but of course when mentioned to me was called an automatic that still has the clutch pedal....oh ok ive never seen it before but was told that there was an automatic with a clutch but as I’ve learned here its an automated not automatic lol! Or are u just talking about the clutch itself in the engine vs a clutch pedal??
I love the white 1 next to the green
We can set you up with one. :D
@@KenworthofRichfield if I had the cash. Lol I'd buy it in a blink of an eye
I think autos are great in dump trucks but not in a semi truck as ive heard especially going down a steep hill its not good at all, you have to use the brake way more as the engine doesn't really slow the truck down at all
So true about the diferent transmition some may no understand but love this video was great and honest we have to know what's best for the job we do all are great gear boxes
If you don’t know what a manual transmission is, google it😂
Yeah. I have fun with it.