My article on a bipolar transmission line using two of these magnificent Audience drivers per speaker was in the July 2014 issue of Audio Express Magazine. Your description of their performance was accurate.
Maurice, a damn fine writer you say Greg .. and an engaging and eloquent speaker I add. Very likable persona and presentation... I have so thoroughly enjoyed your chats together.. You absolutely MUST get him back Greg..👍🏻
Thanks so very much, Marcus. He introduced himself to me while we were walking the halls of AXPONA 2015, and by early 2016, I had helped him extricate himself from a rather questionable publisher and publication, and move to the mastheads of Positive Feedback and Enjoy the Music. And over the past seven odd years, we have become very good friends...
Well, to some extent, the source (the tape, LP, file, optical media, etc.) presents the absolute limitation. No matter how exceptional the playback system, if that source is compromised in any manner, resolution, tonality, bandwidth, coherence, etc., that will present the limit against which the gear may present the music. While this is clearly apparent with LPs, it IS an issue to consider with digital files as well... Not all digital transfers are equal, after all...
Can't retrieve or recreate what's not been recorded.... It's like a search for something that doesn't exist, it may be exciting trying but ultimately disappointing somewhat.
Hi Greg, just found your channel and really enjoy the content. I’ve been into the hi audio gear for a few years now and am doing my 1st big upgrade. I just ordered a pair of Vivid Kaya 45 from Bill over at GTT. I currently have a Pass Labs INT 25 amp that is most likely be underpowered for the Vivids? What’s your thoughts on a integrated amp to pair with the Vivids? My room is small 14x12x7. Budget is up to 20K. Thanks!
Hello @316RC. Welcome, and thanks for the kind words... I will respond to your DM shortly. This is not the kind of thing I would normally do via the "Comments" section of an episode. 😁
@@316RC LOL, that is exactly why I said I would respond to your DM shortly! 😏 By the way, check your Inbox! You should have that reply by now! Thanks again for checking out the channel, and for writing.
I completely agree with your assessment of that 3 letter DAC, I’ll do the favor of saying it’s MSB 😉. Bright and brittle is good description, fatiguing is my recollection. I’ve personally never heard the Ideon stack but I wonder how you feel about these chip based dac’s boasting $50k retail prices? It’s the same chip found in dac’s bearing retail prices a small fraction of this unit. Yes, this unit claims all sorts of discreet power supplies and a fancy heavy aluminum chassis but ultimately how much markup is acceptable for off-the-shelf chip based designs? In my mind it’s reminiscent of Boulder amps, a brand that’s located near me and that I’ve met the engineers and been to factory. The collection of Haas cnc machines milling cases is impressive, at least it appeals to the engineer in me. Ultimately however when I saw the assembly procedure of automated pick-n-pull pcb assemblies and pcb’s connected by ribbon cables, I completely dismissed the product, even if it were a small fraction of their retail pricing. Certainly my system source priorities are analog, both my vinyl and reel to reel rigs but the most impressive dac systems are FPGA based units, not chip based. Maybe there’s some subconscious influence there but the most impressive digital systems I’ve ever heard from Esoteric, Nagra and Playback Designs are all similar in topology, essentially pdm based circuits w/FPGA chips. In all 3 cases I was not made aware of circuit topology when I first heard them play. Curious if you ever consider engineering development costs and assembly quality relative to retail pricing when evaluating products?
Hello. Thanks for this. Well, since you called them out… 😉 Yet there is another three-letter company that (recall I said there were two!), while it has gotten better in the last few years, is still not that musical sounding to my ears... And to your mention of the three most impressive digital systems you've heard, I can concur in appreciating the Esoteric (the Grandioso stack in particular) gear and Andreas' Playback Designs approach, though I'm not that keen on what I've heard from Nagra. Further, based exclusively on listening experiences, not my engineering and computing background, I place much more stock on the global approach taken to the ENTIRE design and construction process (electrical isolation, signal transport, shielding, attention to detail in the conversion process, the power supply, circuitry build, parts quality, assembly, construction, execution, etc.), over any other single aspect of that process, including JUST the D to A conversion methodology and device choice. I personally have seen no correlation or evidence that would attribute any undue advantage to the specific use of Field-Programmable Gate Array converters. But that is just me… Finally, I honestly feel that I am one of only a very FEW active reviewers who DO understand and take into consideration the overall costs involved to produce a viable commercial audio product and to STAY IN BUSINESS. PLEASE see my “E10: In Defense of Hyper Audio” starting at 7:19 - use this link ua-cam.com/video/Kh-zuUHnz1k/v-deo.htmlsi=cP0SovHCXnglNO0e&t=439
@@theaudioanalyst Thank you for the link, I watched in full. I agree with much of your dissertation. Where I differ I suppose is with the Ideon stack. Using your Camry-Chiron analogy, is there a single shared component. In fact is anything on Chiron shared with its familial VAG brands? I highly doubt it. It’s an extraordinarily rare, largely handmade machine with unique chassis, powertrain, electronics and engineering. The major functional component of the $50k Ideon Dac is shared with that of competing products costing small fraction. If it sounds as well as you describe, should that matter? Maybe, probably not. I think for that price I’d however be more cautious and discerning before laying down my plastic. I don’t know if you have any experience w/Boulder amps, I had an in-home demo several years ago and was wholly unimpressed. Shortly after they built their new headquarters, I had opportunity for a factory visit and was honestly appalled by the build quality. Pcb’s connected by ribbon cables is common on pc’s and laptops. Amps and preamps? Maybe if it’s from my local Best Buy assembled in Singapore. Ultimately I’m buying based on amp voicing and how they suit my entire system but I strongly favor hand assembly w/ptp wiring. Just for reference I have 3 systems between our 2 homes consisting of Berning, Wavac, Border Patrol and Rogue amps, CAT & Audible Illusions pre’s, Manley tape head preamp and a Playback Designs DAC/server. VS VR4 Anniv, Living Voice and Volti speakers. Obviously not the ‘big name’ brands but mostly hand made w/minimal off the shelf components and few pcb’s. Appreciate your insights, may have found a UA-camr that I can reliably follow 😉
@@MichaelM-to4sg I do have experience with Boulder amplification, as well as with Aavik, Absolare, Adcom, Alberto Guerro Designs, Anthem, ARC, Aesthetix, Air Tight, Atma-Sphere, Audio Note, Berning, Bryston, Cary, CAT (Ken Stevens is a friend), CH Precision, Classé, Conrad-Johnson, Carver, Constellation, D’Agostino, Dynaco, Forté, Gryphon, Futterman, Hafler, Harman Kardon, Krell, Lamm, Levinson, LTA, Luxman, Marantz, MBL, McGary Audio, McIntosh, Odyssey, Parasound (I still own the JC 1+ monos), Pass Labs, Phase Linear, Pilium, Plinius, PS Audio, Rotel, Sanders, Soulution, Sunfire, T+A, Tact, Threshold, Tidal, VAC, VTL, Wavac (I had the MD-805 MkII 10th Anniversary Editions for nearly two years), Williamson, Zanden and many dozens more that I can’t think of at the moment… 😉 Sorry, but I suspect that I may have gotten my point across. Oh, your mention of the Audible Illusions preamp brings to mind my time with the Modulus 3A…a delightful little performer in its day… While I totally understand why you may have been underwhelmed with your Boulder demo, I cannot urge you strongly enough to refrain from making assumptions about what each individual aspect of an amplifier’s design may or may not contribute to the particular sonic signature that you like or dislike. While I will acknowledge that there are generalizations one can usually infer from seeing a circuit and the quality of its execution, controlled listening is the only way to actually evaluate the results of the design and its execution. That said, I find that many of today’s biggest, heaviest, most massive amplifiers leave me wanting for the more emotional parts of the musical experience, attributes like bloom, body, tonal color, and texture - not all, but many. Finally, thank you for the vote of confidence… I hope you will continue to find cause to follow more of my work, both here on the channel, and in written form. Thanks again!
What are your thoughts about cross talk interfering with a systems ability to present a more Live experience. Or do the inherent system components build features to address this. It tends to be a complex issue like everything else
Big money doesn't nessesarily create good sound.. I met people with lower budget diy systems, that would embarrass a lot of so called ultra high end set ups.. You would be surpriced.
Your first statement is true enough. As I have said FOR EVER, in print over the decades (you may get a better sense of my journey here - ua-cam.com/video/loT2ZjdUlx8/v-deo.htmlsi=7VFtEF2oS_LiWBWg ) and here on the channel - price alone is an arbiter of quality. We all have heard horrendously expensive products that sound like crap! By that same token, the finest sounding gear you are going to experience is NOT cheap. I hope that would be an obvious observation to any rational listener... All things being equal, a well synergized and set up half million-dollar system will sound more lifelike and engaging that a well synergized and set up fifty-thousand-dollar system... Now, if you just throw money at a system, WITHOUT any experience and understanding, you CAN create a mess... But that is not what I am talking about here on the channel...
My article on a bipolar transmission line using two of these magnificent Audience drivers per speaker was in the July 2014 issue of Audio Express Magazine. Your description of their performance was accurate.
Umm, I think you mis-posted this... Shouldn't this have been posted to the comments section of Episode 144? 😉
Sorry for the mis-post. @@theaudioanalyst
@@klbird No worries... Thanks for addressing the matter.
Hi Greg great discussion.
You guys are really cute but why not spend more time panning the equipment.
Maurice, a damn fine writer you say Greg .. and an engaging and eloquent speaker I add. Very likable persona and presentation... I have so thoroughly enjoyed your chats together.. You absolutely MUST get him back Greg..👍🏻
Thanks so very much, Marcus. He introduced himself to me while we were walking the halls of AXPONA 2015, and by early 2016, I had helped him extricate himself from a rather questionable publisher and publication, and move to the mastheads of Positive Feedback and Enjoy the Music. And over the past seven odd years, we have become very good friends...
Awesome chat
Great equipment! But does it all boil down to the quality of the recording?
Well, to some extent, the source (the tape, LP, file, optical media, etc.) presents the absolute limitation. No matter how exceptional the playback system, if that source is compromised in any manner, resolution, tonality, bandwidth, coherence, etc., that will present the limit against which the gear may present the music. While this is clearly apparent with LPs, it IS an issue to consider with digital files as well... Not all digital transfers are equal, after all...
Can't retrieve or recreate what's not been recorded.... It's like a search for something that doesn't exist, it may be exciting trying but ultimately disappointing somewhat.
Hi Greg, just found your channel and really enjoy the content. I’ve been into the hi audio gear for a few years now and am doing my 1st big upgrade. I just ordered a pair of Vivid Kaya 45 from Bill over at GTT. I currently have a Pass Labs INT 25 amp that is most likely be underpowered for the Vivids? What’s your thoughts on a integrated amp to pair with the Vivids? My room is small 14x12x7. Budget is up to 20K. Thanks!
Hello @316RC. Welcome, and thanks for the kind words... I will respond to your DM shortly. This is not the kind of thing I would normally do via the "Comments" section of an episode. 😁
@@theaudioanalyst thanks Greg. I found your web site and sent you an email with more details
@@316RC LOL, that is exactly why I said I would respond to your DM shortly! 😏 By the way, check your Inbox! You should have that reply by now! Thanks again for checking out the channel, and for writing.
I completely agree with your assessment of that 3 letter DAC, I’ll do the favor of saying it’s MSB 😉. Bright and brittle is good description, fatiguing is my recollection.
I’ve personally never heard the Ideon stack but I wonder how you feel about these chip based dac’s boasting $50k retail prices? It’s the same chip found in dac’s bearing retail prices a small fraction of this unit. Yes, this unit claims all sorts of discreet power supplies and a fancy heavy aluminum chassis but ultimately how much markup is acceptable for off-the-shelf chip based designs?
In my mind it’s reminiscent of Boulder amps, a brand that’s located near me and that I’ve met the engineers and been to factory. The collection of Haas cnc machines milling cases is impressive, at least it appeals to the engineer in me. Ultimately however when I saw the assembly procedure of automated pick-n-pull pcb assemblies and pcb’s connected by ribbon cables, I completely dismissed the product, even if it were a small fraction of their retail pricing.
Certainly my system source priorities are analog, both my vinyl and reel to reel rigs but the most impressive dac systems are FPGA based units, not chip based. Maybe there’s some subconscious influence there but the most impressive digital systems I’ve ever heard from Esoteric, Nagra and Playback Designs are all similar in topology, essentially pdm based circuits w/FPGA chips. In all 3 cases I was not made aware of circuit topology when I first heard them play.
Curious if you ever consider engineering development costs and assembly quality relative to retail pricing when evaluating products?
Hello. Thanks for this. Well, since you called them out… 😉 Yet there is another three-letter company that (recall I said there were two!), while it has gotten better in the last few years, is still not that musical sounding to my ears...
And to your mention of the three most impressive digital systems you've heard, I can concur in appreciating the Esoteric (the Grandioso stack in particular) gear and Andreas' Playback Designs approach, though I'm not that keen on what I've heard from Nagra.
Further, based exclusively on listening experiences, not my engineering and computing background, I place much more stock on the global approach taken to the ENTIRE design and construction process (electrical isolation, signal transport, shielding, attention to detail in the conversion process, the power supply, circuitry build, parts quality, assembly, construction, execution, etc.), over any other single aspect of that process, including JUST the D to A conversion methodology and device choice. I personally have seen no correlation or evidence that would attribute any undue advantage to the specific use of Field-Programmable Gate Array converters. But that is just me…
Finally, I honestly feel that I am one of only a very FEW active reviewers who DO understand and take into consideration the overall costs involved to produce a viable commercial audio product and to STAY IN BUSINESS. PLEASE see my “E10: In Defense of Hyper Audio” starting at 7:19 - use this link ua-cam.com/video/Kh-zuUHnz1k/v-deo.htmlsi=cP0SovHCXnglNO0e&t=439
@@theaudioanalyst Thank you for the link, I watched in full. I agree with much of your dissertation. Where I differ I suppose is with the Ideon stack. Using your Camry-Chiron analogy, is there a single shared component. In fact is anything on Chiron shared with its familial VAG brands? I highly doubt it. It’s an extraordinarily rare, largely handmade machine with unique chassis, powertrain, electronics and engineering. The major functional component of the $50k Ideon Dac is shared with that of competing products costing small fraction. If it sounds as well as you describe, should that matter? Maybe, probably not. I think for that price I’d however be more cautious and discerning before laying down my plastic.
I don’t know if you have any experience w/Boulder amps, I had an in-home demo several years ago and was wholly unimpressed. Shortly after they built their new headquarters, I had opportunity for a factory visit and was honestly appalled by the build quality. Pcb’s connected by ribbon cables is common on pc’s and laptops. Amps and preamps? Maybe if it’s from my local Best Buy assembled in Singapore. Ultimately I’m buying based on amp voicing and how they suit my entire system but I strongly favor hand assembly w/ptp wiring.
Just for reference I have 3 systems between our 2 homes consisting of Berning, Wavac, Border Patrol and Rogue amps, CAT & Audible Illusions pre’s, Manley tape head preamp and a Playback Designs DAC/server. VS VR4 Anniv, Living Voice and Volti speakers. Obviously not the ‘big name’ brands but mostly hand made w/minimal off the shelf components and few pcb’s.
Appreciate your insights, may have found a UA-camr that I can reliably follow 😉
@@MichaelM-to4sg I do have experience with Boulder amplification, as well as with Aavik, Absolare, Adcom, Alberto Guerro Designs, Anthem, ARC, Aesthetix, Air Tight, Atma-Sphere, Audio Note, Berning, Bryston, Cary, CAT (Ken Stevens is a friend), CH Precision, Classé, Conrad-Johnson, Carver, Constellation, D’Agostino, Dynaco, Forté, Gryphon, Futterman, Hafler, Harman Kardon, Krell, Lamm, Levinson, LTA, Luxman, Marantz, MBL, McGary Audio, McIntosh, Odyssey, Parasound (I still own the JC 1+ monos), Pass Labs, Phase Linear, Pilium, Plinius, PS Audio, Rotel, Sanders, Soulution, Sunfire, T+A, Tact, Threshold, Tidal, VAC, VTL, Wavac (I had the MD-805 MkII 10th Anniversary Editions for nearly two years), Williamson, Zanden and many dozens more that I can’t think of at the moment… 😉 Sorry, but I suspect that I may have gotten my point across.
Oh, your mention of the Audible Illusions preamp brings to mind my time with the Modulus 3A…a delightful little performer in its day…
While I totally understand why you may have been underwhelmed with your Boulder demo, I cannot urge you strongly enough to refrain from making assumptions about what each individual aspect of an amplifier’s design may or may not contribute to the particular sonic signature that you like or dislike. While I will acknowledge that there are generalizations one can usually infer from seeing a circuit and the quality of its execution, controlled listening is the only way to actually evaluate the results of the design and its execution. That said, I find that many of today’s biggest, heaviest, most massive amplifiers leave me wanting for the more emotional parts of the musical experience, attributes like bloom, body, tonal color, and texture - not all, but many.
Finally, thank you for the vote of confidence… I hope you will continue to find cause to follow more of my work, both here on the channel, and in written form. Thanks again!
What are your thoughts about cross talk interfering with a systems ability to present a more Live experience. Or do the inherent system components build features to address this. It tends to be a complex issue like everything else
Big money doesn't nessesarily create good sound.. I met people with lower budget diy systems, that would embarrass a lot of so called ultra high end set ups.. You would be surpriced.
Your first statement is true enough. As I have said FOR EVER, in print over the decades (you may get a better sense of my journey here - ua-cam.com/video/loT2ZjdUlx8/v-deo.htmlsi=7VFtEF2oS_LiWBWg ) and here on the channel - price alone is an arbiter of quality. We all have heard horrendously expensive products that sound like crap! By that same token, the finest sounding gear you are going to experience is NOT cheap. I hope that would be an obvious observation to any rational listener... All things being equal, a well synergized and set up half million-dollar system will sound more lifelike and engaging that a well synergized and set up fifty-thousand-dollar system... Now, if you just throw money at a system, WITHOUT any experience and understanding, you CAN create a mess... But that is not what I am talking about here on the channel...