Thoughts on Futurity Horses and Is it better to Start 4-yr-olds or 2-yr-olds??
Вставка
- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- To send a horse for training, contact me @ davistraining83@gmail.com
Join us on Patreon
/ theartofhorsemanship
Check out my book "The Started Colt: Horsemanship as an Art" on Amazon, Barnes and Noble or ReaderHouse.com
Thank you to my sponsors:
Stand Alone Feed TM Check them out at standalonefeed... #Champions Stand Alone
Rogue Cinch Co and Rogue Photography / roguecinchco #HorsemanshipasanArt #theartofhorsemanship
Another good topic that needed clarification. Really liked your closing comment: “Hate the game, not the player.” I spent my life from age 15 to 78 training cow horses for ranch work, for the show pen, the rodeo arena but my forte was the rope horse - calf-roping & team roping. I paid my first entry fee at 15 and my last one in the fall of my 78th year. During all that time I have never met a real trainer/exhibitor who wanted to cause a horse to get injured, regardless of age. However, when you get involved in the futurities/maturities and crunch time events (and rodeo is always crunch time), owner satisfaction and owner investment dictates asking a young horse for all that he/she can perform. Age dictates the rules of the game and money is the lubricant. The exhibitor/trainer’s choice is to play or stay home. Thanks again for another good video, Bret.
Thank you sir. I sure hope Im still at it when Im 78. Hell Ill be happy with making it to 78.
You'll make it. 'Cause once poisoned you never get it out of your blood. S@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt
Thanks for your thoughtful consideration of all the different aspects of how to handle a horse. "Cuz that's what Grampa said" assumes that Grampa wasn't just doing things so he could survive and feed his family. I sure appreciate you sharing your experience and thoughts.
Im sure glad you like it.
I was one of those young guys who loped lots of circles for a hot shot trainer. I agree with you on the starting young horses. If your lucky to you have some kinda tougher country to turn them out into also. I think it helps with bones,teeth,feet etc. But not everyone does so. Thanks.
I love to turn them out in bad country. Like you say not everyone agrees.@@dylaningle3113
The mind of a two year old is wonderful and they want to be doing something. By the time they are 3 they are just like little kids. Three year olds "stand up", put their hands on their hips and say, I've lived just fine without you in my life till now. Why do I need to listen to you! Little kids say, I can do it myself!! I love starting my babies driving at 18 months!
18 months is a magical age
As a farrier of 25 yrs your statements and knowledge is supported
Im sure glad
Never wanted to compete on horses. It's a privilege that they even let us on their backs to ride.
Aint that the truth.
I am glad my futurity and show days are over. I remember that crunch oh so well. I find it so freeing to not be on a timeline when it comes to training.
it can be tough on both horse and rider.
Real nice to see you out and about doing your thing 🇳🇿
Thanks. Is that the Australian Flag?
I wish what you are saying about the timeline for futurity was true in all the trainers. Fact is many never get that break unless something untoward occurs forcing them to rest them. Too much money is at stake. I dont miss working in that industry. Lets me take all the time I want.
Good video. Ive been starting horses for over 30 years now and id agree with you a 100%.
Great way to explain it. The flip side of being a performance horse trainer with succes in the show pen, is becoming the victim of the succes, and the more horses one keeps in training, the less time one can spend on any particular horse, and the time frame you explain becomes the driving force, with all its consequences. On a different note, when you are circling that filly, or working the flag, except for once, you stopped the filly and rolled her back. Is there a reason why you don't draw her back first, load up the hind end and free up that shoulder before you roll her over those hocks? or am I missing something?
It was originally intended as a sale video so I was showing off
She doesn't back real well so dont show what she is bad at
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt gotcha
figured you'd understand@@janboogaerts1616
Thanks for clarifying this. It always concerned me.
glad to do so
Interesting topic that's out of my scope but have had the mindset that 2 is to young and injuries are more likely forr those very same reasons you mentioned.
Starting my 4y old now and thinking maybe I didn't need to delay?
Great stuff. Thanks
Im glad you enjoyed it, I really think the delay is detrimental but you live and learn
Money vs. Morals
Life is a series of compromises and By God's Grace are we Justified
Very well said. Thank you
I've been riding my Colt 2 yr old on June 1st. Big Hancock , Leo stud horse...
I am constantly reminding myself that I have years and no futurity that I have to mash for ....your videos and experience has benefited Him and Me ...
Blessings
Good deal I am glad to hear that. Its a tough place to be mentally but its better for everyone.@@joelhamilton6720
2 y.o. should NOT/NEVER be under saddle ! ! ! ! Sure sign of someone who doesn't seem to have a clue about the way horses grow.The age at which horses reach skeletal maturity varies depending on a number of factors. Most horses reach skeletal maturity between the ages of four and six years.
Why? The knees are closed at 18-24 months and most of the joints are closed by 28 months. There is a little discrepancy between breeds and sex but as a general rule this is true. This stuff isn't my opinion its a fact.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Oh well then.......keep sending the kids to the coal mines. It's irresponsible!
Lekker man lekker 🇿🇦
I dont know what that means but it sounds good
For me it's all about watching for fatigue physically and mentally. Let them air up before going on and keep it fun for the horse no matter the age of horse or discipline. Might need to ride the bitch and bastard out of them here and there but don't make a habit of it. I also wrap my horse's legs with real leg wraps like at the track (you have to know how or don't do it) and use bell boots. Treat them like royalty and they will act like royalty. I rarely have injuries. I train my horses so they can be shown if I want to but I'm not on a time line. I ride for the horse not for my glory. Poco y poco....
nice
so ride your 2 year olds keep it steady and consistent and you will get a better horse all the way around?
yep, its that simple.
Compromise? Start lightly at 3 years?
If you want to that's fine. Im not saying one way is right and another is wrong Im just saying what happens. I was talking mostly about futurity horses, can't start them at three.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArtI was brought up with on track Standardbreds, taught by old timers. My college advisor was a very canny old horse vet. Interestingly, he also believed in training 2 year olds to stimulate bone, muscle & tendon development; he also felt safe recommending racing them a few times towards the end of that same year. Then rest & start them up at 3. Pretty similar to your thoughts, and to mine as well. Thanks! 👍
Sweet. I dont know much about trotters as we have discussed but a horse is a horse@@comesahorseman
I train my two year old mare in de Round pen, she is already building muscle, lot of groundwork, but she looks so small, we are starting to ride at three, maybe some little people can ride big two year old but especially men are often to big and heavy, makes me sick to see a very big dude bouncing on a small two year old filly.. doesnt look right.
I think it has more to do with how they are worked than the size of the rider.@@Wendy-bd9zu
Then why are so many race horses dying on the track if their bones and ligaments so strong?
Well most of the fatalities on the track are not from being started to young, I can promise you those colts are handled with kid gloves. There is a lot of other stuff going on that the news doesn't cover...think insurance. At any rate the pounds of pressure per square inch in the bones of a running horse is enormous, I dont remember off the top of my head but its worth looking up, I find it amazing that they can run at all. Any injury on the track causes people to point the finger at starting young but there is no control group to compare this to because no one starts race horses at five years old because you can't, everyone of them would break down in less than a year simply because they are so massive by then. The reason you dont see many horses running after four or five is because they are slower because they are to big. Further over 90 percent of the horses on the track are under four years of age so 90 percent of the injuries are in young horses. The truth is there are no more injuries on the track then there ever were its just more talked about in the news. There are also far less injuries than the average ranch if you compare the sheer number of horses. In the end it is not an argument that stands up to reason when you have the facts.
Social media, wild horse Annie emotionalism rule the day...facts? They don't matter. My grandfather had a statement that I've retained, "facts don't lie, but liars figure." Go figure. Excellent answer, again you carry the day. Thanks@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt So how many ranch horses die a year from snapped legs. I still believe hard work on a 2 year old is wrong. The growth plates are not closed. We broke our horses at 2, good ground work and they knew how to ride. Then they were put out but I guess we did a good job since they were usually 6 when they started the hard work of being ridden all the time. They had days off to build up and rest so they didn't get sore backed. But they didn't buck or do anything stupid when they were rode. Good foundation and good minds. There is no luck involved there. And correct me if I'm wrong John Henry retired at 9 yrs old due to a ligament strain. He was horse of the year 2x. Retired also as the richest running horse. Another problem with these TB's is they have no bone. They are bred too fine and thin legged like Arabians. The QH's may be tougher and denser boned. As you allude about insurance it's all about money. People are killing and crippling horses for money and that is wrong on every level in every discipline. Period. I gave up the "enjoyment of the sport of kings" because it sickened me to see those horses get hurt and die and jockeys getting injured. I have yet to see a cow horse snap a leg but maybe I'm just lucky there.
I think the key is starting slow and working up. Track horses are rushed and tremendous strain is put on them. Plus it depends on the horse... And the rider.
I agree with you. Not all Track horses are rushed, some trainers go very slowly.@@tamarrioncovingtonstudios
Better call them "no futurity horses - they won't grow old with all that strain on their joints and still green bones.
Well that's not really true for all of them, lots of trainers do it right.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt you cannot work babies right.
Well of whole lot of people disagree with you. Are you saying that this filly in the video was not worked correctly? If so may I ask why? Perhaps you did not listen to the voiceover very well, she is not a futurity horse, she will have the next year off. The first futurity horse I ever made all the way is now 12 years old and in great shape with no issues and has never been injected. The second one is six now and I am still showing her also no issues. I have had plenty of horses that were started and rode 90 days as two year olds and then used all there life that stayed at work well into there 20's in fact my very first horse had been a futurity colt and worked until she was 28. She would have gone on longer but she was killed in a trailer accident. I know some get washed out and that is unfortunate but lots of them live long and prosperous lives.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt well, maaybe YOU are an expert rider and give your young horses enough time off BUT working 2year olds is a common practice in Europe with warmbloods and with the western horse types also, TBs even are worked with 1 year. Point is, their joint and bone growth is not finished until 7!!!! and so, the younger they are, they are more prone to mishaps and dammages. If you as an expert set the example to work horses very young, every overweight dum*ba*** will copy you and THINK he or she does it right.
So do you think you can over ride a 2 year old. And if so how much would you reccomend someone rides them.
Oh of course you can. Twenty or thirty minutes 4-5 days a week. If they are getting more than 90 days they can get little week long breaks.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt thanks again.
you bet@@Parker465