Toyota's "Miata Killer" is Coming to Take Mazda's Lunch Money
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- Опубліковано 24 тра 2024
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The Mazda Miata is one of the greatest sports cars of all time - but it has been relativly unchallenged in the market as an affordable two seat roadster with incredible balance and driving dynamics. Toyota however might have to change that. With the Toyota S-FR concept all the way back in 2015 unveiled at the Toyota Auto Show, it seems like there are some rumors of the car getting the green light to go into production. So just for fun - what would a Toyota Miata MX-5 competitor be like? Let's talk about it!
#toyota #turbo #miata
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Toyota Celica GR4 '27..........
The thumbnail looks like someone stepped on a Mini Cooper and smushed it.
And it's gorgeous
Yeah, it looks terrible, but so do most modern Toyotas.
I thought the same exact thing
LOL, my first thought upon seeing it! It's butt ugly!
I've often looked at my girlfriend's mini and thought it would make a sexy looking sports car if someone shmooshed it
This car is in Gran Turismo 7 and fully tricked out It is a freaking beast! And I pray that it comes to America if it’s actually made.
I first was introduced to it in GT Sport.
Random kid who's a Turismo junky wish that my Elantra N was one of the cars for his gaming. I'd put FRS in my bucket list if it had seating for big people in North America. The lightweight 3cyl engine (based on GR Corolla) would leap frog the 2.0L/2.0L variants... Nothing wrong with those NA powertrain, but weight loss for those feather weight is huge gains.
I highly doubt that it would come to America
The sfr never made into production, prob will stay a concept
@@gabrieldavenport1395 one can only hope
Yes, we all need this car. There needs to be more cars under 3000 lbs out there.
Under 3000lbs with actual power. 270~300 hp would be great.
@@chrisbrookshire861 for sure. I have a fiesta ST (2700Lbs) with 400hp and it's absolutely a blast to drive. But it's front wheel drive and I have over $15k in mods on top of $15k I paid for the car. I would rather buy this stock, RWD, 300HP roadster with a warranty for I'm guessing around $35k
I agree. The closest thing out there is probably the civic type r just barely over 3000lbs.
There needs to be more RWD MANUAL cars under 3000 lbs
@@Rgh71fish agreed
If Toyota made this car and it was RWD with the 3 cylinder turbo it would be insane. Basically a mini supra, especially considering people are boosting those little 3 cylinders to 500+ hp. Seems like a pipe dream but I would love it so much.
it's literally what i perceive as the perfect car. Lightweight, RWD, turbo, manual transmission...
Driving a 3 cylinder turbo sports car would be a new experience for me
Now Ford cannot give away the Mach E they are offering 0% financing on it. Never should have called it a mustang should have just called it a Mach-E or a Thunderbolt.
Agreed. We all call it the Ford Mach-E, no one calls it the Mustang Mach-E.
Or base it after the Taurus X
No matter the name no one was going to buy that. When you force something onto U.S. citizens you will always get push back no matter what it is. Michelle Obama had the nerve to want to offer healthier meals to kids and folks complained about that.
Thunderbird would’ve worked perfectly
They should just make a 8th gen Celica and bring back the gt4/all-trac variant
Good news. Toyota’s new boss (Akio is just a board member now iirc) wants to bring back the Celica, so it’s definitely possible.
Celica will be too expensive
RWD Celica like the classic.
That would be badass
@morebrainmoregains3234 it was always the supra's little brother, so if it did return it'd probably fall between the GR86 and the A90 Supra
MR2, Celica, S-FR, GR Starlet and GRMN MK5 Supra.
Toyota is always listened to the car enthusiast and continued to create ICE-powered sports car in the future.
Kudos to Morizo(Akio Toyoda), GR and Toyota.
In Japan Toyota sells the Copen GR. This can be the next generation of that.
It's just next gen Copen GR Hahaha 🤣
@@GF-mf7ml Pretty wrong.....even if it has the same name, this time it will be RWD instead of FWD.
Why did they make it look EXACTLY like a mini from the front
Yeah, I love that. Got my attention as a mini owner
It looks fucking awful. They really need to change the look if they want it to be a Miata killer. The miata is elegant and gorgeous. This car just looks bubbly and goofy.
I can see the Mini but tbh I thought it was a Fiat of some sort
i mean they did already collaborate with bmw, mini toyota is pretty likely too
@@soilent9618 Yeah the new supra is a disaster also. Same for the toyota gr86 and subaru brz front ends at least. Same for modern honda civic type-r. Idk what the Japanese are smoking these days but modern Mazda cars are the only ones I like the styling of.
I could see them more than likely teaming up with Mazda sort of like how Mazda and Fiat had the Miata and the 124 spider. Considering Toyota owns shares with Mazda as it is, to me that would make more sense to utilize the Miata chassis, but use their own drivetrain
Hmm, this actually makes a lot of sense and I could see that happening. 🤔👍
If that does happen it is 100% going to be a hybrid Toyota engine not the 3 cyl turbo. Mazda isn't really going to be able to keep up in the hybrid and EV world where scale seems to matter a lot more.
When the Fiat 124 spyder came out I was saying they should have made it a fastback and sold it as a Chrysler Barracuda. With correct styling cues it would have actually sold...
I agree with you that most people would see turbo and be drawn more to that over a naturally aspirated engine, BUT naturally aspirated is so much more fun in small sports cars. Turbo cars can and do make far more power, which is great. The thing about a naturally aspirated car is just how great the engine sounds compared to a turbo counterpart. I think the intake noise and exhaust note is almost always better out of a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder than a turbo 4 cylinder. Don't get me wrong turbos make cool noises, and create a fun power band, but naturally aspirated almost always feels more fun on curvy roads.
I don't know. The current Supra is turbo and sounds great.
@Aki_Lesbrinco The B58 is a great engine and tends to sound really good, while also being able to make tons of power. I still think there are naturally aspirated BMW engines that tend to sound better and feel more linear than any turbo engine.
Forget the sound, the problem with turbo engines is their power isn’t linear like a NA-engine.
All I Want is basically a GR86 with 300hp and 275ft lb of Torque under 3200lbs. Thats naturally aspirated and somewhat close to an NA Toyota in reliability.
Not going to happen and if it were to happen it would probably be close to $50k
Will end like the Nissan IDx concept that would have been awesome.
Agreed..My wallet was ready for that one.
The dealer markup would be insane!
Any dealer markup would simply drive people toward the Miata anyways.
Not necessarily, I was at a Toyota dealership doing maintenance on my wife's car this weekend and they had six GR86 in the lot with no markups.
@@Aki_Lesbrincodamn where was this?
"Miata Killer" is a bit of a stretch. Miata is an icon now, so it's like saying something is a VW Beetle killer. A higher spec Miata competitor would be ABSOLUTELY welcomed and encouraged. But, it would be more like a potentially more athletic second cousin twice removed, not a killer.
Why doesn't Toyota make a new mr-2 instead? Could you imagine how insane enthusiasts would go if you had a brand new mid engine car that started in the high 20s or low 30s? Even if it only had 150 hp or something, people would be like hell yeah.
As young enthusiasts, we're desperate for cool cars that aren't 100 grand. If you want to compete with the Miata, the only way to lure people away is by doing something radical. If Toyota makes a Miata rival, people will just say "That's cute" and buy the Miata. But if a new mr-2 comes out to replace the gr86, it'll blow people's minds.
They are.
Nobody’s buying a 150 hp MR2. We already had that, it’s called the MR2 Spyder. A new MR2 needs to have at least 280 hp, but preferably more.
@@LuckyCharms777 This is the reason why we can't have enthusiast cars at a reasonable price. I'd gladly accept a base MR2 with 120-130 hp if it was small, light, looked great, and had a fantastic chassis. Something like that would be an excellent gr86 replacement.
Add in more powerful and expensive trims later, but make the base car ultra obtainable.
@@themidnighttavern6784
A base Miata is $29k at 181 hp, so I imagine that would be the bare minimum to attract buyers, but two engine options would be nice for a competitor.
@@LuckyCharms777 Rumors indicate that new mr-2 will come in at below 29k. Insider reports claim Toyota was basically trying to create one of the most affordable sports cars, and by far the most affordable mid-engine car on sale. I've heard pricing in the low to mid 20s starting, using a lot of parts off things like the yaris to keep costs down. We'll see if those reports are accurate or not.
Always interesting to see what Toyota has cookin…
We got absolutely shafted on the gr Yaris the least they could do is bring this over so dealers can kill any potential it has instantly with $40k markups
remember when they hyped up the gr yaris and then limited it's production to 25k units and not available in the US? we're not getting this car. that's a fact.
That and the Pontiac coming back.
That was proven to be a joke and not really happening
There's literally fine print on the Pontiac ad that it's a joke.
Nah, Pontiac was never coming back, lol. As much as I love them they're gone
“We belong dead.” - Pontiac
Fiero GT???
I feel that if the SFR is put into production and sold in the US, it may be used as a cheaper alternative to the GR86.
I would love it if they manage to sell it for just over $20k. Maybe even $18-19k absolutely impossible in this day and age, but it would be nice.
If the SFR stands for Sport, Front engine, Rear drive... then yes. We need it. Yesterday. :3
In accordance to other sources, this car would have a Non-Turbo version of the G16 engine with around 150HP. That’s not going to dethrone the Miata in any way, shape or form. Now, if they decide to release a GR version, even with the Yaris G16 engine on it, different story.
Apparently there has been publications in some Japanese publications saying that the SFR concept has been greenlit to go to production, we’ll see how that ages though.
You were in Jax at baker built yo??!!
When you did that? They did nice work on my Ef sedan.
I've been loving and asking for the s-fr since I first saw the concept in the late 2010's my only problem with it is that they went with a 3cyl turbo instead of a more commonly available na 4cyl or as a crazy stretch the lower displacement turbo 4cyl available in the civic/civic si. Honestly though I'm just glad they may be building the s-fr at all.
If it does release here with an NA GR corolla engine I'm buying one
Didn’t Toyota re-trademark the model “Celica” when are we getting a Celica GR4 harkening back to the Celica GT4
The new Mr2 makes way more sense. Selling this in North America would just canabalize sales of the GR86.
They didn't only partner with Yamaha for the 2J, but also the ZZ and 3S engines too! (Fact check the 3S series, as I'm not positive, please,) but the ZZ in the Celica GT-S was definitely a Yamaha thing and it was just as awesome as the 2JZ imo
If it does come out someone is gonna immediately LS swap it
inline 5 like in the audi rallye car, sonds very similar to v10, many say its mor elike v10 than inlien 6 is liek v12. gmat50 , lexus lfa, 8 in 1 header etc, eagle hunters flat 12 in engine simulator
Why does it look like a surprised mini cooper lol
A MR2 with the new 3 cylinder that’s what I would do
gma t43 isnt being done anymore because gorodon murray said nobody wante dto make it for gordon murray auto... wonder if it woudlve happened if he didnt insist on his brand being on it(not saying thats what happened, just a guess)
Someone in my apartment building just got one of the GR Corollas. I was not expecting it to sound nearly as mean as it does.
The SFR LOOKS like a 660cc Japanese k car for only Japan
Definitely has kei car vibes.
Just noticed that the only thing that wasn't mentioned is this is trending rn cause daihatsu revealed a concept that looks very uncannily similar to the s-fr recently
TDIB! We met at a car meet here in Va Beach a long time ago and ive been a sub since then. Listen man I’ve been a Honda head my whole life and I’d love to see another kraftwerks boosted civic if you could get your hands on one. The 9th gen si’s are mehhh at best but any other generation would be dope and I really think you’d thoroughly enjoy a kraftwerks k24. I saw the FA5 video with the stock k20 which is dope but you haven’t lived until you drive a k24 swapped civic with a kraftwerks kit man even a B-series and they’ve drastically grown in popularity recently so it’d be dope to hear your thoughts. Much love and respect from the 757! 🤙🏽
The main thing that I think would stop Toyota from making this is that there's no room in the market for a new name. Miata completely dominates the small 2-door convertible market, and has been doing so for almost three decades, to a point that there's really no substantial way to improve on their offering without simply adding more power and, as a result, increasing price.
"without simply adding more power and, as a result, increasing weight". I fixed it for you.
Small front engine seems only partially correct. FR is the term/code used for front engine rear drive. Just as FF and MR stand for front engine, front wheel drive and mid-engine, read drive respectively.
That 3 pot would be perfect for it.
Until you drive a Miata, you don't understand the joy of driving
More than likely this will end up being a car that won’t be sold in the states and it will probably be sold as a copen. I just don’t see the US getting a small sports car that isn’t the Miata or the GR86. The only other Miata type of car we had in the states that just didn’t sell well was the Fiat 124 Spider which was turbo and didn’t catch on.
It was just an inferior miata
I'm currently in the market for a new car with a manual transmission. Considering a Mazda3 Hatchback, Mazda MX-5 Sport, Toyota GR86, or a Subaru BRZ. The prices are a bit higher than I want to pay, though. Hopefully with discounts and incentives I can get something that doesn't break the bank.
If they make the SFR it would be cool to see the destroked G16E motor that they used in 2022 Super Taikyu Series in the GR86. That was setup the same too. 1.4L revving to the moon with boost sounds awesome in a light weight compact package.
A turbo K20 swapped GR86 is a lethal weapon on the streets. I wish you could just buy a GR86 like that off the lot.
Love this car on GT sport and GT7 I couldn't afford a new car but it would be cool to see it as real
Yes they exactly need this car. I would buy hands down the miata / mx5 here in Australia over the 86 purely due to the lightweight feeling it has over the 86
The front end reminds me of what Kirby would look like if Kirby was a car
it won't be so easy to beat the Miata ND, aluminum chassis 2.0 4-cylinder aluminum engine, high quadrilateral in light alloy and multilink, mechanical self-locking differential, rear-wheel drive, soft top, 1070 KG in running order and no small feat the Mazda He has 30-odd years of experience on the Miata, the best-selling spider of all time, I have one
Miata 2.0 ND Sport Soft top for 2 years and I'm crazy about it, fantastic car in every way, among other things, just a few changes are enough to make it exceptional, in mine I have Ohlins R&T, collectors, K&N filter, exhaust, Ecutek map, Oz Ultraleggera, Brembo 4 pumping, it drives like a dream, it has a nice sound thanks to the 4 cylinder, consumption is excellent for a 2.0 petrol engine, 184 hp is enough to have fun also thanks to the weight, having more choice is good for everyone, let's hope Toyota gives us one beautiful sports car that can compete with Mazda,
Toyota don't make a stupid large grill challenge:
No turbo use the 2AR and keep it naturally aspirated. those motors are on par or better then a k24
I would love to see this car actually make it a production also will be a good entry level GR86 is kind of a mid-end sports car and of course the Supra being their flagship.
Always had fun with the little car ever since they introduced it in Gran Turismo 6
If the SFR does come to the US by then time a grad college, i my very well buy it. Especially if it has crazy colors, and either a targa top or convertible formats
I’ve always been a Toyota/Lexus guy and I would love to see them make a Miata competitor
Toyota + BMW is a match made in heaven. I hope the GFr is actually made. I'd get one.
Mini/suki cappuccino collab? XD
Cappuccino would be bad ass
Mazda needs to come back with mazdaspeed but we all know it will never happens
If it gets greenlit I want it to be marketed and make it the 2nd generation of the sports 800. The SFR clearly took design cues from the Sports 800.
I really got my hopes up for the nissan idx nismo so when I see it in the dealer with a crazy mark up in price I'll be happy.
What if mazda and toyota collab and they make their cars the same weight and have the same horsepower and create a whole class of racing
Hopefully it comes into production, but in the US
Toyota/Daihatsu also makes the Daihatsu GR Copen in Japan. So please make the SFR happen for Japan and Europe (since both regions like and drive many small cars)
Hopefully this comes to the states cuz we ain’t get a new st or the Yaris
I remember checking this car out on Gran Turismo and wondering why Toyota hasn't made it. They should call it the new Celica.
They need to put the same team on it they put on the IMV-0 hilux champ. Cut costs to the bone. Offer it cheap, with only the bare essentials. Encourage crazy mods, turbos, superchargers, big brakes, wheels, suspension, ground effects, aero.... and on. offer most of them through the dealer networks too.
It might not be as pretty, but get the cost down an offer it as the base starter sport model for new drivers.
Then offer a racer support network like Mazda does on the miata.... that's a big part of why the miata is the most raced single car in the world.
Then what is the GR86? Do they give it the WRX turbo engine? It's all too close in the segment.
I wonder if they’re going to try to move everything up in power, get the 86 at 250-275, corrolla pushing 400 and the supra pushed into near supercar territory, but that’s requiring far far more than just making a car, idk we’d hear more rumors i think then
If i had a nickel every time a "new report" said the Hyundai N74 is gonna come out, id have a lot of nickels... But pls hyundai 🙏
Looks like the Honda E mated with an S2000
The only way to get people interested in variety of models and “fun” cars is to make everything affordable again.
Didn't the Toyota GR Copen already released?
Ngl, I've been waiting for a collab/rivalry (all in good faith, of course) with you and the Bens from Gears and Gasoline on Gridlife and Time Attack ever since you got your Racing license. You could get a Blue Flame GR Corolla Core (or a Circuit Edition) or GR86 (for a AWD vs FWD vs RWD) and modify to compete with Short Ben and his FL5 and Tall Ben's Evo 😂
Ngl I’m not the biggest fan of Toyota when it comes to there sports but I will say they been killing lately and if they make an ND Miata killer with the same engine from the GR Corolla I’m definitely buying one
The other rumor is that the next gen GR86 will be a sedan, and if so then the SFR makes sense in the lineup.
There's a common misconception that Yamaha co-designed the 2JZ engine. While Yamaha did collaborate with Toyota on some engine projects, particularly the cylinder head for the earlier 3SGTE engine, Yamaha wasn't involved in the design of the 2JZ. Toyota's in-house engineers are credited for creating this legendary engine.
How about a collaboration with Hyabusa for start? An Acura, busa?
so are the celica sport rumors fake as well? i was hoping it would be back to go up against the prelude
I don't think they need to build this, I didn't think it makes sense, I didn't think I'd be interested in buying one, and I genuinely hope they do it anyway!
toyota should bring back the Celica, go off the 7th gen design and make it an affordable high revving fwd sports coupe. I think they could have a serious competitor for other hot hatches (si/type r, gti) in a lower price range if they had something similar to the gr rolla but in fwd to save money and weight.
If they do make the SFR, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s in a similar position to the Honda S660. Being sold overseas and more in the small, nearly Kei-car. Lass.
Would be great for more options on tiny non-hatchback, sub 2500lb roadster cars, the lighter they are the more fun to drive on the curvy roads of Europe. I would 100% buy the Toyota S-FR if it became available. Currently driving the Supra GR 3.0, but notice on roundabouts, my econobox 2021 i10 with 84hp can go through roundabouts faster than the Supra and even Porsche because it just weighs lighter than a Miata. Just look up the moose test on the i10, performs the same level as some high end sports cars 😂 A Toyota S-FR would be a great option to have instead of the Miata being the only one, which is also a great car.
Honda already tried to do the same thing with the S2000 . But they completely missed the mark by making it so expensive that hardly anyone could afford it . If Toyota wants to take some of the market away from the Miata they definitely need to make it price competitive at the same time .
The 2jz was not partnered with Yahamaha, its the 1jz your thinking of it had a Yahmaha head, along with some other motors like the 2zz or the 3sgte and probably a few others. I love Toyota and what they are doing making more driver focused cars with the GR line is awesome at a time like this. Have you seen the little anime they made called GRIP?
The Rb26 is better so it’s doesn’t matter
@@legendarysloth9754 hahaha👀
Maybe make a subcompact rwd platform. Use the 3 cylinder but remove the turbo and bump up the compressiom for base models. Then sell it as a toyota and daihatsu
I just want a turbo rwd 4 cylinder turbo jdm car. Oem.
Wish the brz came turbo oem.
Do think the fsr looks dope.
As long as it has a toyota powertrain. Supra is a BMW and 86 is a troubled subaru. It also has to be affordable. New Tacoma sales are down 60%.
25% tariff on import vehicles unless assembled state side (NA really) doesn't do us any good.
If they do make this it needs to solve the one issue the ND Miata has; power. I want that 10lb per hp number.
but will it actually be in the same cost range - I doubt it.
They absolutely need that car! We need that car!
With how....unique this thing looks and how small the buying audience will be, id be willing to bet it would come with the 2.0 out of the Corolla if it actually does get made
Man I just want a Mr2 like take a Evora make it a bit smaller or at least lighten it some and take the Corollas engine rework it to rev a bit more and make 200hp then hopefully sell it for the same as the gr86
Just get a Lotus it's Toyota anyway with higher price and look.
Imagine if Toyota partners with Mazda for this exact car.
Would be cool, provided it wasn't another FRS reskin. Lots of really cool new, very small Toyota engines have come out recently too.
This car looks like what the BMW Mini should’ve evolved into.
I still think that Toyota needs to bring back the Celica
there have been rumors of both. The MR2 rumors have been around for a decade or more. The smaller Toyota rumors have been around since they killed the MR-S.
GR Corolla 3 cylinder turned into a straight six would be a beast… a Toyota beast.
Yeah that’s not gonna happen.
@@redbaron5308 yea, basically V35A is the enlarged 6 cylinder version of the G16E. Not really, but you get what I mean.
@@redbaron5308 yeah true, may as well say a GR Corolla with a 1LR-GUE would be amazing
The last MR2 lasted only a couple years. The Miata has been consistently sold for over 30. Like the Wrangler vs. Bronco. Bronco just reintroduced, while the Wrangler no stop in production. SO, time will tell.