@mikeygraves16 🤣 right? There is hope though. Doecheii's tiny desk performance all live instruments, and over spilling talent has brightened my Sunday.
Enjoying the music is fine, but it's the measurement of success. If you're not making sales or stream numbers it's a flop and doesn't make the label money.
it actually seems like tiktok is a cancer actually. songs not being marketed to the right audience or buyers persona and people using an excerpt of the song rather than the entierety of the song. Seeing people only knowing the chorus of Steve Lacy's song and then also not knowing any other songs is just sad.
I noticed the connection between many of these artists is the inability to pack up their big ass ego. Too many artists nowadays just have an inability to keep it humble and aim for more creatively nowadays.
These new performers can't handle criticism of ANY kind, negative, positive, helpful or playful, they don't want to improve because music to them isn't an art, it's a money glitch.
@@terribleterri2738 Definitely true they are mostly pumpfakers yadamean.Everyone followed Kendrick and Drake's beef.Drake isn't new but what he is doing now is the most sissy move Ive ever experienced in hiphop.But how many outside of Cali followed the Lefty Gunplay vs Band$ Lazy Boy and Rico2Smoove beef?Band$ shut it down though with The Frank Story track.
Tommy really had no reason to say that about hip hop, like you just got popular through the lense of hip hop then you diss it? Literally bit the hand that fed you
I don't think it was a diss but rather a tone-deaf statement, the dude has made so much stuff that isn't hiphop yet he blowed up with a hip-hop song, Budden said it, saying that he wanted to be more or that he wasn't only a hiphop artist would have been a better way to phrase it.
@@alexclay6187 Yeah, that's what I wanted to explain but I think my redaction failed me lol, I don't think the dude really wanted to bite the hand that feed him but it came out like that, personally I hope the dude can find his footing again because compared to others on the list, dude doesn't come off to me as an egotistical prick or an idiot
@@ZeroDegg even saying he "wanted to be more than just a..." is a bad way to word it. He could've just said he experiments with different genres and wants to encourage people to listen to his other music for different sounds. Its just a bad idea for any white artist (or any artist for that matter) to make gains on hiphop/r&b but then put it down as a lesser art.
and yet somehow he still has more clout than her still. bro knows how to pick successful artists. she was riding on the coat tails of the dad she craps on and the tiktok fame.
Tommy Richman is actually a good artist. His album was solid, but since he wanted to stray away what made him popular without really establishing his core fanbase he killed his own momentum.
I seen the title and said why tf you sound excited or celebrating the downfall or failure of someone’s passion? This ain’t nothing to glorify. I wish that beautiful woman much success!
All of these failures are a symptom. A lot can be learned from why so many have fallen. I agree, there is a trend of people celebrating the downfall of others - whether celebrities, influencers or prominent figures like that CEO everyone is laughing at. Scary times we're in.@@BlackFaithProduction
Can’t even say Cole was ahead of the curve considering he was simply saying what the general public was thinking. I don’t think anyone with a truly functioning brain thought that Lil Pump was gonna be around for our whole lives*
Cole should be the last person speaking on the topics of flops. I’m too lazy to do it but all a person has to do is go through everyone on his label and the artists he brings to preform at his festival.
I seen the title and said why tf you sound excited or celebrating the downfall or failure of someone’s passion? This ain’t nothing to glorify. I wish that beautiful woman much success!
He ain't never repped a set baby, he can't do no wrong. He can also clean up good for ya, the man knows right from wrong, ya he also said he want's to make it... so badly! because he's a million dollar baby, just dont @ him, yeah, hell nah. 😅
Unfortunately, if the mass of dumb followers have moved on for whatever reason it don't matter how good the album is. And "pretty good" definitely isn't enough to sway them back. Nobody wants to be seen listening to yesterday's flavor. Sucks, people miss out a lot of good shit cause they're so worried about they own image.
the craziest part about all of these is that a lot of these "flop" sales, especially coi's and toosii's would make me insanely happy as someone still trying to grow lmfao
I miss old music that lasted for decades. This new music has no heart just beat social media also makes it feel like u can't make mistakes. Like you have to be great everytime.
I still have the belief that tik tok an app that utilizes short clips of music is the reason we have so many one hit wonders/industry plants. Streams and sales go up cus it’s viral on tik tok, (gets overplayed quick), falls off. And keep in mind it’s taste of younger generation mainly. Real talent doesn’t float to the top for music on the app, the catchiest parts get played,even if the song trash.
I DISAGREE. How people listen to music and discover new music changes with time. When MTV base launched, artists who had their music videos playing on MTV were the ones topping the charts. So more artists started investing in music videos. MTV base is how many people discovered new music. Then came UA-cam.... Fast forward to 2020s, today people discover new music through social. Going viral TikTok, IG, Facebook can help an artist get a hit. If established artists like Justin Timberlake, Gaga, Katy Perry and more are doing TikTok trends. TikTok is just a MEDIUM. TikTok is neither good or bad. There will be something else after TikTok just like there used to be MTV base before
Hits ain't what they used to be. These rappers still trying to get a little support from a bunch of people. What they need to think about is how to get a lot of support from a few people.
How are you fresh off of tour with no album? And then how do you go to the XXL freestyle with no bars and just start Twerking and think that your career is going to be anything remotely positive? These things are baffling to me how people be so aware, but so unprepared
Tommy or his management fumbled after that Grammy Hip-Hop submission, it came off as disingenuous given he doesn’t want to be apart of Hip Hop. PR goes a long way.
I thought he made that comment before he submitted it in the hip hop categories. Or maybe it was close in time, but it was a big-time fumble regardless of chronology.
Saweetie would have the same amount of followers and likes if she wasn't a rapper. 19:00 She's bad af. But looking good and having talent are two different things. Glorilla & Cardi B blew up with crooked teeth. These labels need to stop betting their chips on these ladies looks and start actually "listening" to them. Im surprised Ice Spice didn't make this list 🤔
@@mostdope2731 lmao so now you claim the numbers are lying, if that's true then drake will win his law suit against Kendrick cuz he's claiming Kendrick used bots so we shall see
The thing about the segment at 19:22 is simple: just because you have "millions" of followers on social media doesn't mean that the translats to sales. Some are bots, some are just there for the clout, but very few are actual sales. These artists and label executives fail to realize that. They get drunk off of that number but don't realize that it takes talen and dedication towards the craft that people will rock and stick with you as your career progress. That's why many of these names in this video failed.
Also, the internet has come together to end nepotism in the entertainment industry. Think of all the celebrities kids who have been absolutely shxt on over the years. It’s a beautiful thing really
That and I feel like a lot of people don’t actually follow some of the artists they actually listen to as well. Artists with a gimmick have hella followers so most are there for the gimmicks and not the person or the artistry
Coi was in prime position. Somehow someway things didnt align for her. Its not always meant to be for everyone who tries but. She handling it better than most for sure. She may even be able to bounce back. I thought Trendsetter wasnt bad. It wasnt the best but it wasnt terrible in my book. I still go back and listen to it here and there
Ever wonder why that is? Fans nowadays are the first to sh!t on artists if the numbers aren't high. Fans of today are as fickle as the artist themselves. It will change again eventually... hopefully!
I think it’s so funny, because I genuinely don’t remember anyone caring about sales and numbers before Ak decided he was bored of trolling the trenches of Chicago, also funnier that he’s the first one to point the numbers out but he has no albums, songs, numbers, plaques, etc.
Think back to around 50 cents run around 02-04 and that became the conversation of the generation.. 50 used to beef w artists and one of his offensive tactics was to always bring up sales numbers
@ even if that’s the case, 50 didn’t have a whole channel dedicated to revenue ( pocket ) watching every and any artist, and if 50 started that as a trend, Ak certainly took off with it and made it his whole life, so to me that’s like apples to oranges.
I was following Fetty from the jump ,listened to all his songs even the unofficial ones .His fall off was 90 % labels fault ,they delayed the album untill nobody wanted to listen to it anymore .
I’m from the Bay Area so I know & understand that artists will go under the radar despite a massive body of proven work, which the rest of the nation takes inspiration from. Sales are not the definitive sign of a great artist. Drake for example, is still a lame.
Fetty’s problem (if you can even call it a problem) was that he was too kind. For example, he didn’t put out the ‘my way’ remix with Drake which would’ve easily blew up, because Drake left fetty’s boy Monty off. But fetty wanted Monty to get some shine too but even Monty was like nah bro it’s cool.
@@d.52555also the baby mama drama , gotta pay for all them kids right? Like omg there was something every week he had a new girl then he got married adopted the wife’s kids had some more kids, he needed better ppl behind him as many ppl that get to a certain position do.
as an old man in college, no on is listening to rap the way mid and baby millenials did. They back to electronic, pop, or alternative rock and its many different styles from the 2000s.
bro old school 90s/2000s hip hop is long gone sadly, no one raps from their roots, the way of life like how they grew up and there is just barely any storytelling besides kendrick, and the r&b scene with sza, like you just don’t see rap like NAS, Pac, Biggie, Em, Dre, etc no more, it’s just about stupid shit now, they can’t even truly express and rap about their success bc it’s just so fake nowadays…
jack harlow had so much hype to my eyes he was gonna be a hit maker for a long time and now its just mind blowing to see some one with so much hype just flop
I feel like getting a tour without having a single album is kinda backwards. These novice artists getting a premature ego almost self sabotaging themselves. When it’s time to lock in amd do a full album,They crash & burn.
@ the album was good besides like 4 songs dude y’all kids are ungrateful I’ve been a Juice fan since 2018 trust me just because your favorite grails aren’t on it doesn’t mean it’s bad. Best Friend and Misfits, Lace It are the only bad songs
@@Thatguy55595 I’ve listened to him since 2018 too? I’m just saying Bibby butchered what is his last album. There was little to no publicity for it his listeners on Spotify only went up by 2 mill. Grade A took to long to give us anything we lived on unreleased songs for years. It could have been bigger and better if Bibby wasn’t garbage.
@@mrankin2825 billboard now counts album streams as sales. Like listening to a free album on Spotify or whatever. Nobody is buying cds at target anymore
Many of these new artists don’t have a fan base or a dedicated fanbase. Artists used to spend time building a fanbase and catering to that fanbase. Artists like juice world , xxx had a good fanbase .
@orangensafttee4598 it's a fan base though, and 11 yr old boys grow up along with the artist so getting a young fan base is actually smart if you're business minded
@@fierybl4de400 Yes your fanbase can grow out of your music but those artists. I mentioned rather you hate or love the music they had a fanbase . It’s the same reason why Tyler the creator became number one . And beat Khalid although his not mainstream he has a dedicated fanbase that will go out and purchase his music and supports him.
@@orangensafttee4598 at that time he was poppin early on bruh wasn’t no 11 yr olds goin to bros concerts n being fans like that. That shit only happened later on down the line once bro died n shit. Buying bros music n merch early on were older n now all his”fans” who were 11 around that time in they’re 20s so🤷♂️
@MeaCulpa04 Yes, I am hating. I am hating that her dogshit music gets radio play because her daddy used to own a magazine. I am hating that her talentless ass is getting attention and publicity. I am hating that cancers like her submerge real female rappers into the depths of irrelevance. I am proud hater of Coi "Bitchzeno" Leray.
It 's also important to realize just because you had an album sell crazy well doesn't mean you're actually good/talented, market and social media manipukation can aand has driven sales more than the music, hence why people get scammed forking over money without a product even existeing.
why are we trashing these people for going triple cardboard? I mean if it was Cardboard or double cardboard I would say ok thats kinda underwhelming but Triple cardboard is not too shabby in my books!!
I seen the title and said why tf you sound excited or celebrating the downfall or failure of someone’s passion? This ain’t nothing to glorify. I wish that beautiful woman much success!
double cardboard still leaks through to the other piece if you get the top piece of cardboard wet! Now triple cardboard? that shit is waterproof bro. you already know!
Hear me out - maybe social media algorithms are a sh1t way to evaluate the quality of music. Maybe algorithms that reward stupid crap like cats riding Roombas, women with big breasts on trampolines, and "dance memes" shouldn't be determining what a good song is.
@akiko3688 Uh, no. Because I get crap on my page ALL THE TIME that I've never watched, never searched for. No, the algorithm thinks "most people are stupid, this is stupid, let's push it on everone." LIL BRO
Blowing up in fame today is not as hard as it was before but keeping the fame is where the struggle begins, there are so many artists nowadays that anybody can take your fame without even trying. So be smart with your money and time.
i dont really understand why all these rappers are spending money on iced out jewels and watches and big designer brands and i sometimes feel like they pretending to be somebody else when they were exposed to money and fame....
Their biggest problem is they forget to work the album if you believe in the music tlyea it sucks that the first week was no good but keep being busy on social media keep dropping videos you can keep the album going, they always quit
Look I'm a hip hop head. I love other friends of music but hip hop is my heart first. If i get into an artist as a hip hop artist and they say they aren't hip hop artists I'll just not listen. Not because they were ungrateful to the culture, but because they tells me you're not going to give me what i want from you. Maybe you host aren't for me, and that just the song is. I think other hip hop heads feel the same. When we're looking for hip hop that's what I want. When I'm looking for rock or pop I'm looking for those.
Am I 1:05 tripping this song had a woosy dirty south sound I don’t here that at all frm the lil snippet not sure if the songs sounds different that it does in the 10 sec clips of it
The music industry have been going about things completly wrong. They only sign people who have a bigger social media following these days and the downside to that is that these people tend to be fame hungry who care more about likes and money than the actual art of making music. This is why we see them with millions of followers but struggle to sell more than 10k. What ends up happening is the fan base actually care more for their social media and the occational song attached to a viral internet moment than the actual music alone. There is zero reason for these type of artists to make an album. It's a shame because they are taking the place of talented muscians who are humble that spend more time making music than being on social media. The Kendrick Lamars of this world will not be able to even get a chance. Say bye to potential big names that could be the next Nas, Jay Z, 2pac etc if they don't change the current strategy
Honestly, at this day and age full length albums just aren't the way to go with upcoming hip hop artists. They should just trickle out a single every month or so.
You know how you can see a funny text think it’s hilarious but not even smile, that’s how current rap is. There are so many albums that sound good and check all the boxes but will never get a second play
Coi actually had a strong debut album imo. But I think people got caught up on the first week numbers and never gave it a chance so it flopped. And I feel like it threw her off course a little bit.
Then she got dropped because Republic put a lot of money into her first album with all those features then she signed with another label foolishly and just got dropped from them as well so her whole career is in limbo right now
Honestly, the problem with some of these artists solely lies in the lack of genuine interactions and establishing a core fanbase you can only ride a trend so far. Also, social media will never be real-life just because you follow an artist doesn't mean you care about their music or are comfortable dropping money on their trash album.
I dont like coi music at all but i do think she handle the criticism pretty well tbh. And i hate toosii not happy 😢love his music. Anyone that was rocking with purpp or pump dont know or respect hiphop. As far as female rappers, its Glo😂😂😂😂 streams and social media ruined hiphop
Same as Jennie from BlackPink w/her new single Mantra when she sang "All that ass" b1tch where? She didn't even hire dancers who had booty they were all as flat as her. I was embarrassed for her, but her fans are loyal AND blind. They're really over there w/"Blackpink is the Revolution" & think they're some sort of feminist icons when all their hits were written by a man (Teddy Park) & they barely have any input at all into their styling or anything, but people eat it up like candy. Currently, they're the highest subscribed music channel on UA-cam w/91 million subscribers & get a billion streams on Spotify everyday. Proof good marketing will take you a LONG LONG way. I've learned that people don't care about authenticity. They care about acting authentic. This is why Drake is as big as he is. Lying about "Started from the bottom" The mthrfckr was never at any bottom. He doesn't know about dinner being a peanut butter & jelly sandwich. "Clowns to the left of me/Jokers to the right..." FRFR
The problem is that a lot of these artists have major egos, the inability to connect with their fans on an intimate level which is so important, You are not going to have loyal fans if they do not know who you are and cannot connect with you. You need to be active on social media if you are an artist You don't need a minimalist profile where you barely post anything and be elusive you need to be open to some degree tht's what comes with being a star.
@5:30 this whole rant is why Coi Leray flopped. She should be worried about making good music and improving her craft. Once she built a fanbase money will follow. But all she cares about is the algorithm and making money. If you can't consistently turn out good music then you can't sustain a career.
If I was boss of a label, and I had an artiste like Saweetie with over 10 million followers but she sells 2k on her project. If she comes to me asking of a budget for an album...I'd get her arrested. TF 😂
@JoeDirtisawsome the last person to go gold or platinum was SZA in '23 so again nobody is buying albums only streaming. Why pay when u can listen to the whole album on utube or pay for a streaming service for the same price of one cd...hell don't anybody even buy cds anymore 🤦🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️
@@itsmerochell3299streams are counted in sales, every 150 streams counts as a sale of a single song, and 10 songs is considered an album. So for every 1500 streams (which is extremely low in the grand scheme) it’s a sale. “Of course the sales gonna be low” isn’t correct, as not only are actual physical and digital album sales pretty much zero for a lot of these, but their streams are also abysmal.
@Kirasfox I'm positive that they go by both albums sold and streaming songs. Her album the tortured poets just went 6x platinum in which the album was streamed over 6 million times which is way easier to do then selling 6 million albums alone like back in the days before when u had to buy the album or tape if u wanted a copy...unless u dubbed it from the radio on a tape
People don't want to hear this but, this is more reflective of the genre, industry and "fans" than the artists themselves. Hip-hop is dead in the mainstream. But I'm ok with this tho 😂
Most people can't sell a single song. Most people wouldn't even attempt. So selling 20,000 is still good. I'm sure that's 20,000 more than you correct 🙃
@specialbreedsb78 this man couldn't handle 1 person on UA-cam but trying to talk down on artist for actually selling. Now imagine what they go through. Man's crumbled in one comment.
@@specialbreedsb78 no it doesn't they don't get big bucks to deal with idiots who can't handle their own tactics. They get paid to put out music and the fans/idiots comes with it.
Blame the artist not the company, it's their greed that put them in the position they are in, not the love of the music. They turned their back on their gift for money and fame and found out ..the end
I actually respected Tommy for saying he’s not a hip hop artist because I don’t really see it like we saw it with early Post Malone. My problem is when he said that but didn’t stand on business and still submitted “Million Dollar Baby” as a hip hop song for the grammy awards.
This generation is getting a taste of one hit wonders, and I love that for y'all.😂 it's plenty one hit wonders on my playlist from when I was growing up. They'll be fine😂
Tommy would have been just perfectly fine if he hadn't let out that tweet.... All he had to was.... NOTHING!!!! And that's what makes his situation kind of frustrating. Watching aspiring up-and-coming great artist Basically kill Their careers....
Music today is super watered down it’s all trendy then it is made with any passion or replay value early 2000s everyone went platinum with Good body of work everyone today just drops gets a hit from tik tok flops anyways I feel like hip hop and other genres are losing there identity’s to younger audiences and trends and social media antics
the formula of using an old classic sample + pretty girl twerking is getting played out
Yeah...gonna take far more.
Getting?
Sampling is hip hop. look up DJ Kool herc. If you have to give credit to one person for the creation of hip hop is him.
@mikeygraves16 🤣 right? There is hope though. Doecheii's tiny desk performance all live instruments, and over spilling talent has brightened my Sunday.
It’s lazy lmao
But why are yall so obsessed with sales? Just enjoy the music . I’ve never checked sales of an album before I listen to an artist I love
It's a part of music discourse.
fr I love that Coyote album idgaf how much it sold
Your enjoying the album don’t make these folks no money
Enjoying the music is fine, but it's the measurement of success. If you're not making sales or stream numbers it's a flop and doesn't make the label money.
@@glocktaviousbrown5420 the money ain’t shit when ya got lifetime fans
Tiktok is just the spark, NOT the launch
THANK YOU
Shit idk what they gone do next month 🤣😂🤣
This..THIS
Excellent comment.
it actually seems like tiktok is a cancer actually. songs not being marketed to the right audience or buyers persona and people using an excerpt of the song rather than the entierety of the song. Seeing people only knowing the chorus of Steve Lacy's song and then also not knowing any other songs is just sad.
I noticed the connection between many of these artists is the inability to pack up their big ass ego. Too many artists nowadays just have an inability to keep it humble and aim for more creatively nowadays.
Agreed
Yup.Check out some Norte rap they keep it humble solid and respectful.
These new performers can't handle criticism of ANY kind, negative, positive, helpful or playful, they don't want to improve because music to them isn't an art, it's a money glitch.
@@terribleterri2738 Definitely true they are mostly pumpfakers yadamean.Everyone followed Kendrick and Drake's beef.Drake isn't new but what he is doing now is the most sissy move Ive ever experienced in hiphop.But how many outside of Cali followed the Lefty Gunplay vs Band$ Lazy Boy and Rico2Smoove beef?Band$ shut it down though with The Frank Story track.
Mmmm
Tommy really had no reason to say that about hip hop, like you just got popular through the lense of hip hop then you diss it? Literally bit the hand that fed you
I don't think it was a diss but rather a tone-deaf statement, the dude has made so much stuff that isn't hiphop yet he blowed up with a hip-hop song, Budden said it, saying that he wanted to be more or that he wasn't only a hiphop artist would have been a better way to phrase it.
@ I don’t think he meant it as one but it kinda came off that way.
@@alexclay6187 Yeah, that's what I wanted to explain but I think my redaction failed me lol, I don't think the dude really wanted to bite the hand that feed him but it came out like that, personally I hope the dude can find his footing again because compared to others on the list, dude doesn't come off to me as an egotistical prick or an idiot
@@ZeroDeggbro…. How tf was that a hip hop song???
@@ZeroDegg even saying he "wanted to be more than just a..." is a bad way to word it. He could've just said he experiments with different genres and wants to encourage people to listen to his other music for different sounds. Its just a bad idea for any white artist (or any artist for that matter) to make gains on hiphop/r&b but then put it down as a lesser art.
7:20 Bruh Benzino dissing his own daughter is funny and hypocritical she dead did better than his entire career 😭
Yeh bith hia groups suxk and flopped. And his solo flopped. He suxx he is a no hit wonder only know for talking abpuy eminem
At least Coi had the common decency to not big up her own album in her own magazine.
Benzino had a good career
and yet somehow he still has more clout than her still. bro knows how to pick successful artists. she was riding on the coat tails of the dad she craps on and the tiktok fame.
Benzino gotta be one the goofiest dads in hip hop
Tommy Richman is actually a good artist. His album was solid, but since he wanted to stray away what made him popular without really establishing his core fanbase he killed his own momentum.
I definitely agree with you
Damn good breakdown.
He’s not a good artist
he isn't a good artist? Then how tf did million dollar baby blow up then?@@Historicutuber
@@wealllikeitsomilkit4301vanilla ice blew up even more than him 🤣 just bc you get a hit song doesn’t mean you’re a good artist lol
Dang alot of one hit wonders and industry plants were in 2023-2024
Yeees😮
I seen the title and said why tf you sound excited or celebrating the downfall or failure of someone’s passion? This ain’t nothing to glorify. I wish that beautiful woman much success!
Drake Vs Kendrick opened so many eyes on what real hip hop sounds like. Taste buds and tolerance have changed.
It's been a thing. You've surprised at the fact you probably like a couple industry plants you wouldn't know about
All of these failures are a symptom. A lot can be learned from why so many have fallen. I agree, there is a trend of people celebrating the downfall of others - whether celebrities, influencers or prominent figures like that CEO everyone is laughing at. Scary times we're in.@@BlackFaithProduction
“Just remember what I told you when your shit flop. In 5 years you gon’ be on Love and Hip-Hop” - J. Cole
Can’t even say Cole was ahead of the curve considering he was simply saying what the general public was thinking. I don’t think anyone with a truly functioning brain thought that Lil Pump was gonna be around for our whole lives*
@@shidditiddis I would say a lot of people don’t understand that mindset or understand that even today they think it’s the opposite
Only reason Cole relevant because he hate on niggas in his raps and people relate to that shit cause people haters
Cole should be the last person speaking on the topics of flops. I’m too lazy to do it but all a person has to do is go through everyone on his label and the artists he brings to preform at his festival.
This video is a testament to how untalented mainstream rappers are today
I seen the title and said why tf you sound excited or celebrating the downfall or failure of someone’s passion? This ain’t nothing to glorify. I wish that beautiful woman much success!
@BlackFaithProduction nah they trash sole
THIS! 👆👆💯
@@BlackFaithProduction why you spamming your comment on everyone’s comments?
@@dylannance4772 Nice try, Diddy.
I actually like Tommy Richman but he kinda killed his momentum with that tweet and the album was pretty good
He ain't never repped a set baby, he can't do no wrong. He can also clean up good for ya, the man knows right from wrong, ya he also said he want's to make it... so badly! because he's a million dollar baby, just dont @ him, yeah, hell nah. 😅
real
😂😂😂😂
Unfortunately, if the mass of dumb followers have moved on for whatever reason it don't matter how good the album is. And "pretty good" definitely isn't enough to sway them back. Nobody wants to be seen listening to yesterday's flavor. Sucks, people miss out a lot of good shit cause they're so worried about they own image.
the craziest part about all of these is that a lot of these "flop" sales, especially coi's and toosii's would make me insanely happy as someone still trying to grow lmfao
Love the way u think
I can respect that
What's crazy is Lil Pump doubled the average and it's a flop. 😂
If I average 20 points a game and someone averaged 45, how are we the same.
Honestly. People need time to grow and find themselves without the pressure of numbers.
🎉🎉🎉 7:31 7:32 🎉🎉 7:33 🎉
I miss old music that lasted for decades. This new music has no heart just beat social media also makes it feel like u can't make mistakes. Like you have to be great everytime.
Music has always been full of one hit wonders. This is not a new phenomenon in music.
I still have the belief that tik tok an app that utilizes short clips of music is the reason we have so many one hit wonders/industry plants.
Streams and sales go up cus it’s viral on tik tok, (gets overplayed quick), falls off. And keep in mind it’s taste of younger generation mainly.
Real talent doesn’t float to the top for music on the app, the catchiest parts get played,even if the song trash.
Best comment ⬆️
I DISAGREE. How people listen to music and discover new music changes with time.
When MTV base launched, artists who had their music videos playing on MTV were the ones topping the charts. So more artists started investing in music videos. MTV base is how many people discovered new music.
Then came UA-cam....
Fast forward to 2020s, today people discover new music through social. Going viral TikTok, IG, Facebook can help an artist get a hit. If established artists like Justin Timberlake, Gaga, Katy Perry and more are doing TikTok trends.
TikTok is just a MEDIUM. TikTok is neither good or bad. There will be something else after TikTok just like there used to be MTV base before
@@kingmatolo8381 so what does making trash 🗑️ music have to do with the way people listen to music on ANY platform it’s trash
Agreed
Hits ain't what they used to be. These rappers still trying to get a little support from a bunch of people. What they need to think about is how to get a lot of support from a few people.
💯
Yup a solid fan base that's always waiting on you to drop.
You need to offer some depth and substance for that
@@gvngbvngiggy that’s the point it takes real talent and dedication.
How are you fresh off of tour with no album? And then how do you go to the XXL freestyle with no bars and just start Twerking and think that your career is going to be anything remotely positive?
These things are baffling to me how people be so aware, but so unprepared
Especially when you're built like a 10yr boy, it's impossible to try to fall back on sex appeal. Who dreams about screwing an ironing board?😂
Tommy or his management fumbled after that Grammy Hip-Hop submission, it came off as disingenuous given he doesn’t want to be apart of Hip Hop. PR goes a long way.
I thought he made that comment before he submitted it in the hip hop categories. Or maybe it was close in time, but it was a big-time fumble regardless of chronology.
Triple cardboard is diabolical 😆😆😆
Shit kilt me😂😂😂
Saweetie would have the same amount of followers and likes if she wasn't a rapper. 19:00 She's bad af. But looking good and having talent are two different things. Glorilla & Cardi B blew up with crooked teeth. These labels need to stop betting their chips on these ladies looks and start actually "listening" to them. Im surprised Ice Spice didn't make this list 🤔
Same looks can get you in the door but everything else is still pending if it's considered a permanent or temporary stay
because ic e spice actually makes good music comparwd to the people you listed in your comment. The numbers dont lie check their stats
@Nitro15they quite literally do lie 🤣look it up fake spam bots be streaming n boosting numbers for certain artists
@Nitro15ice spice the one is known for twerking css the lyrics don’t even have a impact my dude u laughable 😂😂
@@mostdope2731 lmao so now you claim the numbers are lying, if that's true then drake will win his law suit against Kendrick cuz he's claiming Kendrick used bots so we shall see
The thing about the segment at 19:22 is simple: just because you have "millions" of followers on social media doesn't mean that the translats to sales. Some are bots, some are just there for the clout, but very few are actual sales. These artists and label executives fail to realize that. They get drunk off of that number but don't realize that it takes talen and dedication towards the craft that people will rock and stick with you as your career progress. That's why many of these names in this video failed.
Also, the internet has come together to end nepotism in the entertainment industry. Think of all the celebrities kids who have been absolutely shxt on over the years. It’s a beautiful thing really
That and I feel like a lot of people don’t actually follow some of the artists they actually listen to as well. Artists with a gimmick have hella followers so most are there for the gimmicks and not the person or the artistry
Those insta accounts are thirst traps, not for music fans
Coi was in prime position. Somehow someway things didnt align for her. Its not always meant to be for everyone who tries but. She handling it better than most for sure. She may even be able to bounce back. I thought Trendsetter wasnt bad. It wasnt the best but it wasnt terrible in my book. I still go back and listen to it here and there
25:56 so youre telling me the vocalist was in the room while the rest of the music was being made? This is truly a groundbreaking moment for music
Artists are more worried about sales than the fans honestly
Ever wonder why that is? Fans nowadays are the first to sh!t on artists if the numbers aren't high. Fans of today are as fickle as the artist themselves. It will change again eventually... hopefully!
They care about sales because they want their labels to keep giving them a budget to keep making music.
😂😭 TRIPLE CARDBOARD THO? EMOTIONAL DAMAGE LOL Edit: Wtf happen to Ice Spice
Trust bro 😂😂😂
It's 2024, lil bro 💔
flop was already expected from them
me too i expected it
🥶dawg
nah i dont know
Indeed😮😮😮
@@turtleanton6539 ?
Video idea: what we missed during the Kendrick and Drake beef.
example, Big Seans album 👀
BIG WHO!?!?! apparently not that BIG!!!
@@thanosianthemadtitanicNah chill Big Sean not that bad a rapper
But that's always been Sean's career he's good but never gets the fame
This would actually make for a great Video idea p,So much happened that we weren't checking for because of that Beef being the biggest headline
“BIG SEAN??!!”-Soulja Boy Voice🥴🤣
I think it’s so funny, because I genuinely don’t remember anyone caring about sales and numbers before Ak decided he was bored of trolling the trenches of Chicago, also funnier that he’s the first one to point the numbers out but he has no albums, songs, numbers, plaques, etc.
This wholr comment got me dying on the floor lmfao😂😂😂
Think back to around 50 cents run around 02-04 and that became the conversation of the generation.. 50 used to beef w artists and one of his offensive tactics was to always bring up sales numbers
Just another example of him being the biggest leech in hip hop
@ even if that’s the case, 50 didn’t have a whole channel dedicated to revenue ( pocket ) watching every and any artist, and if 50 started that as a trend, Ak certainly took off with it and made it his whole life, so to me that’s like apples to oranges.
People always cared about sales. Mire sanes means that our favorite artists will jeeo getting a budget to make music.
I was following Fetty from the jump ,listened to all his songs even the unofficial ones .His fall off was 90 % labels fault ,they delayed the album untill nobody wanted to listen to it anymore .
I’m from the Bay Area so I know & understand that artists will go under the radar despite a massive body of proven work, which the rest of the nation takes inspiration from. Sales are not the definitive sign of a great artist. Drake for example, is still a lame.
meat watcher
@ I’m Watching you Gobble, cuz the first thing out of your Mouth is Meat. 🤷🏿♂️
All Richman had to do was to his white Pharell schtick for a couple of years but NOOO
Coi failed to understand the significance and her social media fame on top of her Nepotism. She learned the hard way tho.
Fetty’s downfall will always be crazy to me
He went to jail bro
@@TreyCary1 fell off before jail
😂coulda told you he was a fad when he came out. He wasn't 1 of them booty bandit buddy type
Fetty’s problem (if you can even call it a problem) was that he was too kind. For example, he didn’t put out the ‘my way’ remix with Drake which would’ve easily blew up, because Drake left fetty’s boy Monty off. But fetty wanted Monty to get some shine too but even Monty was like nah bro it’s cool.
@@d.52555also the baby mama drama , gotta pay for all them kids right? Like omg there was something every week he had a new girl then he got married adopted the wife’s kids had some more kids, he needed better ppl behind him as many ppl that get to a certain position do.
TikTok is not a platform for longevity. You may blow up quick & big, but the pop definitely starts to fizzle out & eventually goes flat.
Not for every artist. Some are very lucky to develop a long-lasting fanbase!
@ fan base doesn’t always equate to success
as an old man in college, no on is listening to rap the way mid and baby millenials did. They back to electronic, pop, or alternative rock and its many different styles from the 2000s.
That's bc rap is fucking terrible nowadays
@@TyCook-s1c Exactly
bro old school 90s/2000s hip hop is long gone sadly, no one raps from their roots, the way of life like how they grew up and there is just barely any storytelling besides kendrick, and the r&b scene with sza, like you just don’t see rap like NAS, Pac, Biggie, Em, Dre, etc no more, it’s just about stupid shit now, they can’t even truly express and rap about their success bc it’s just so fake nowadays…
@@aydenknott8831 yuopppp, no ones real anymore
jack harlow had so much hype to my eyes he was gonna be a hit maker for a long time and now its just mind blowing to see some one with so much hype just flop
He isn't a good rapper. Hes just white and used samples.
I feel like getting a tour without having a single album is kinda backwards. These novice artists getting a premature ego almost self sabotaging themselves. When it’s time to lock in amd do a full album,They crash & burn.
Juice Wrld sold 90K after being gone for 5 years. Some of these rappers are just flops no one cares about
fax
Tbf Grade A really butchered the album the voting for TPNE Deluxe is all rental. They took way to long giving us anything
@ the album was good besides like 4 songs dude y’all kids are ungrateful I’ve been a Juice fan since 2018 trust me just because your favorite grails aren’t on it doesn’t mean it’s bad. Best Friend and Misfits, Lace It are the only bad songs
@@Thatguy55595 I’ve listened to him since 2018 too? I’m just saying Bibby butchered what is his last album. There was little to no publicity for it his listeners on Spotify only went up by 2 mill.
Grade A took to long to give us anything we lived on unreleased songs for years. It could have been bigger and better if Bibby wasn’t garbage.
And my favorite song was on the album Party by myself love that song was ecstatic it was on TPNE but pop off
Who buys albums? I just listen to a UA-cam playlist for free
People who want to support the artist and actually own their music.
@magdalenasracz so nobody
I still do but if I enjoy the album, not because it's my fav and I feel like I should.
@@KumSwallaHarrisEminem, future, Kendrick Lamar did over 150,000 first week this year.
@@mrankin2825 billboard now counts album streams as sales. Like listening to a free album on Spotify or whatever. Nobody is buying cds at target anymore
Many of these new artists don’t have a fan base or a dedicated fanbase. Artists used to spend time building a fanbase and catering to that fanbase. Artists like juice world , xxx had a good fanbase .
lmao what the fanbases of x and juice are literal 11 year old fortnite kids
@orangensafttee4598 it's a fan base though, and 11 yr old boys grow up along with the artist so getting a young fan base is actually smart if you're business minded
@@Mr.iguessso or the opposite they grow out of the music, its all about adapting and growing up with ur audience
@@fierybl4de400 Yes your fanbase can grow out of your music but those artists. I mentioned rather you hate or love the music they had a fanbase . It’s the same reason why Tyler the creator became number one . And beat Khalid although his not mainstream he has a dedicated fanbase that will go out and purchase his music and supports him.
@@orangensafttee4598 at that time he was poppin early on bruh wasn’t no 11 yr olds goin to bros concerts n being fans like that. That shit only happened later on down the line once bro died n shit. Buying bros music n merch early on were older n now all his”fans” who were 11 around that time in they’re 20s so🤷♂️
0:35 It's ya boy Louaista
In retrospect, Louaista is a curse for hiphop
so iconic
Definitely a culture voulture 😂
J cole put smoke purp and lil pump in the casket 😅
Lil pimp 💀
Little pimp 😬
Be fr lil bro 💀
Crazy how coi leray got offended at the tiktok rapper allegations but did everything a tiktok rapper would do
Suggestion, when you talk about reviews for albums DO NOT USE PITCHFORK as your barometer because they prove time and time again they lack credibility
16:08 “MAGA 202020” lmao this guy is fried💀💀
Don’t forget!!
to be fair that’s a thing people just say, like 202012 and such
Coi "Eating Chicken On The Mic" Leray flopping makes my day.
We’ve all come together to end nepotism in the entertainment industry 👏🏼
😂😂😂😂❤
@@vSeabasscoi is trash but if another nepo baby makes fire I’ll listen idgaf
Hating like some school grls
@MeaCulpa04 Yes, I am hating. I am hating that her dogshit music gets radio play because her daddy used to own a magazine. I am hating that her talentless ass is getting attention and publicity. I am hating that cancers like her submerge real female rappers into the depths of irrelevance. I am proud hater of Coi "Bitchzeno" Leray.
It 's also important to realize just because you had an album sell crazy well doesn't mean you're actually good/talented, market and social media manipukation can aand has driven sales more than the music, hence why people get scammed forking over money without a product even existeing.
why are we trashing these people for going triple cardboard? I mean if it was Cardboard or double cardboard I would say ok thats kinda underwhelming but Triple cardboard is not too shabby in my books!!
Better thn double plastic
@@turtleanton6539 def more biodegradable. Haha
I seen the title and said why tf you sound excited or celebrating the downfall or failure of someone’s passion? This ain’t nothing to glorify. I wish that beautiful woman much success!
@@BlackFaithProduction Why are you spamming, dude?
double cardboard still leaks through to the other piece if you get the top piece of cardboard wet! Now triple cardboard? that shit is waterproof bro. you already know!
Hear me out - maybe social media algorithms are a sh1t way to evaluate the quality of music. Maybe algorithms that reward stupid crap like cats riding Roombas, women with big breasts on trampolines, and "dance memes" shouldn't be determining what a good song is.
This comment right here should be pinned
Big facts
It shows you what you like to watch/listen to lmao that’s on you lil bro
@akiko3688 Uh, no. Because I get crap on my page ALL THE TIME that I've never watched, never searched for. No, the algorithm thinks "most people are stupid, this is stupid, let's push it on everone." LIL BRO
This is the reason why I have to go harder out here. I believe that one day, I’ll be able to show people still care about hip hop.
Just put the fries in the bag gang
@@programSenseLet him live his life loser
You can do it man.
Louaista always talking about people’s downfall,Bro has never had one😭🙏🏿
He's the UA-cam drake 😂
Blowing up in fame today is not as hard as it was before but keeping the fame is where the struggle begins, there are so many artists nowadays that anybody can take your fame without even trying. So be smart with your money and time.
Yeah but Tommy Ritchman can't perform live, he sucks , BAD! no stage presence AT ALL😅😅
Nearly as bad as the Austrailian Olympics Hip Hop competitor
Neither can majority os rappers ya goose
Nah he can. I've seen him before, it wasn't bad.
He’s dirt all around I’m glad that making sht versions of disco movement didn’t become a major thing again 😂
Benzino is such a hater, throwing shade on Twitter to his own daughter 😑😔
Why are you blaming Benzino for responding to the hate his daughter keeps sending? He is responding to her.
Dude is bitter cuz his rap career was non-existent
@ not for nothing but somebody has to be the grown up at some point.
@@emerj101 Yeah that's true actually I can't even argue with that
Lol he rich u in here hating @@DERRTYCHYBO
Coi had to shake a lot of them tiny buns to get them streams 😂
i dont really understand why all these rappers are spending money on iced out jewels and watches and big designer brands and i sometimes feel like they pretending to be somebody else when they were exposed to money and fame....
Because they're dumb as hammers. The whole culture is.
Taking a break doesnt affect too bad, it’s the not delivering on a classic or great album when you return that affects you
Ayyy that’s me 18:12
😂
You're famous now!😂
W Take.
26:35 this generation is HOPELESS when 110 THOUSAND FIRST WEEK SALES IS A "FLOP"
If the company you're with is a big company then it is a flop. If you're an independent doing this out of your house it's a hit.
100K first week is only a disappointment if you're someone like Drake or Taylor Swift.
Their biggest problem is they forget to work the album if you believe in the music tlyea it sucks that the first week was no good but keep being busy on social media keep dropping videos you can keep the album going, they always quit
Look I'm a hip hop head. I love other friends of music but hip hop is my heart first. If i get into an artist as a hip hop artist and they say they aren't hip hop artists I'll just not listen. Not because they were ungrateful to the culture, but because they tells me you're not going to give me what i want from you. Maybe you host aren't for me, and that just the song is. I think other hip hop heads feel the same. When we're looking for hip hop that's what I want. When I'm looking for rock or pop I'm looking for those.
300 songs in 3 years doesn’t mean it’s good 😂
Fr that’s what I was thinking. Work on perfecting like 10-15
Am I 1:05 tripping this song had a woosy dirty south sound I don’t here that at all frm the lil snippet not sure if the songs sounds different that it does in the 10 sec clips of it
"Went triple cardboard" lmaoo 😂
Back in the day…people only got the music via cds. Now you can get it anywhere online…definitely tough to sell actual “hard copies”
The music industry have been going about things completly wrong. They only sign people who have a bigger social media following these days and the downside to that is that these people tend to be fame hungry who care more about likes and money than the actual art of making music. This is why we see them with millions of followers but struggle to sell more than 10k. What ends up happening is the fan base actually care more for their social media and the occational song attached to a viral internet moment than the actual music alone. There is zero reason for these type of artists to make an album. It's a shame because they are taking the place of talented muscians who are humble that spend more time making music than being on social media. The Kendrick Lamars of this world will not be able to even get a chance. Say bye to potential big names that could be the next Nas, Jay Z, 2pac etc if they don't change the current strategy
This is why artists development is so important
Honestly, at this day and age full length albums just aren't the way to go with upcoming hip hop artists. They should just trickle out a single every month or so.
You know how you can see a funny text think it’s hilarious but not even smile, that’s how current rap is. There are so many albums that sound good and check all the boxes but will never get a second play
Coi actually had a strong debut album imo. But I think people got caught up on the first week numbers and never gave it a chance so it flopped. And I feel like it threw her off course a little bit.
Then she got dropped because Republic put a lot of money into her first album with all those features then she signed with another label foolishly and just got dropped from them as well so her whole career is in limbo right now
She never really had a chance....be honest she's not the greatest artist
Honestly, the problem with some of these artists solely lies in the lack of genuine interactions and establishing a core fanbase you can only ride a trend so far. Also, social media will never be real-life just because you follow an artist doesn't mean you care about their music or are comfortable dropping money on their trash album.
I dont like coi music at all but i do think she handle the criticism pretty well tbh. And i hate toosii not happy 😢love his music. Anyone that was rocking with purpp or pump dont know or respect hiphop. As far as female rappers, its Glo😂😂😂😂 streams and social media ruined hiphop
This goes for all artist in all genres
Coi lost me when she said “applebottom make em wanna bite”. What applebottom.. that chick is skinny af 😂
The jeans dummy, apple bottom jeans
Lmfao ❤😂
Sure made me wanna a bite 😂
Same as Jennie from BlackPink w/her new single Mantra when she sang "All that ass" b1tch where? She didn't even hire dancers who had booty they were all as flat as her. I was embarrassed for her, but her fans are loyal AND blind. They're really over there w/"Blackpink is the Revolution" & think they're some sort of feminist icons when all their hits were written by a man (Teddy Park) & they barely have any input at all into their styling or anything, but people eat it up like candy. Currently, they're the highest subscribed music channel on UA-cam w/91 million subscribers & get a billion streams on Spotify everyday. Proof good marketing will take you a LONG LONG way. I've learned that people don't care about authenticity. They care about acting authentic. This is why Drake is as big as he is. Lying about "Started from the bottom" The mthrfckr was never at any bottom. He doesn't know about dinner being a peanut butter & jelly sandwich. "Clowns to the left of me/Jokers to the right..." FRFR
My favorite part of every video is when you go “it’s your boy Louistaaaaaaaaa” 😂😂😂😂 love it
You are a breath of fresh air... no one else knows how to post a video now without Kendricks name in it.... thank yu my guy
He bought up Kendrick though lmao.
The problem is that a lot of these artists have major egos, the inability to connect with their fans on an intimate level which is so important, You are not going to have loyal fans if they do not know who you are and cannot connect with you. You need to be active on social media if you are an artist You don't need a minimalist profile where you barely post anything and be elusive you need to be open to some degree tht's what comes with being a star.
You make good videos and I like your delivery. Keep it up man
You're delivery*
Just kidding 😂
@@googleuser2480yours* delivery
@5:30 this whole rant is why Coi Leray flopped. She should be worried about making good music and improving her craft. Once she built a fanbase money will follow. But all she cares about is the algorithm and making money. If you can't consistently turn out good music then you can't sustain a career.
Nip slip at 9:03?!?
Oh my gah bruh ain’t no wayyyy
If only
Pasty covering the nip. That's all you took from this video? Lol
One video without an opinion from Joey Buttons. Just one!
Louiasta: "NO"
Labels do look at sales though, so if people are after deals still, it does matter. For the consumer.... not so much.
coi leray said she recorded 300 songs, yea iight
If I was boss of a label, and I had an artiste like Saweetie with over 10 million followers but she sells 2k on her project.
If she comes to me asking of a budget for an album...I'd get her arrested.
TF 😂
She's not a rapper she's a influencer that used rap.
Lets be honest nobody buys music anymore so of course the sales gonna be low
So explain the irher artists who're going gold and platinum
@JoeDirtisawsome the last person to go gold or platinum was SZA in '23 so again nobody is buying albums only streaming. Why pay when u can listen to the whole album on utube or pay for a streaming service for the same price of one cd...hell don't anybody even buy cds anymore 🤦🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️
@@itsmerochell3299streams are counted in sales, every 150 streams counts as a sale of a single song, and 10 songs is considered an album. So for every 1500 streams (which is extremely low in the grand scheme) it’s a sale. “Of course the sales gonna be low” isn’t correct, as not only are actual physical and digital album sales pretty much zero for a lot of these, but their streams are also abysmal.
Taylor Swift has consistently sold albums. If you add a niche and fun for ur fans, then it should be good
@Kirasfox I'm positive that they go by both albums sold and streaming songs. Her album the tortured poets just went 6x platinum in which the album was streamed over 6 million times which is way easier to do then selling 6 million albums alone like back in the days before when u had to buy the album or tape if u wanted a copy...unless u dubbed it from the radio on a tape
People don't want to hear this but, this is more reflective of the genre, industry and "fans" than the artists themselves. Hip-hop is dead in the mainstream. But I'm ok with this tho 😂
Benzino trollin his own daughter is the lamest thing I’ve seen in a very long time
I am from South Florida and have never heard a single Smoke Purp song. The only "Purp" we really know down here is SpaceGhost Purp
Imagine the feeling of knowing there's 8billion people in the world and you couldn't even sell 20,000 units..
Most people can't sell a single song. Most people wouldn't even attempt. So selling 20,000 is still good. I'm sure that's 20,000 more than you correct 🙃
@seikoellis17 did I say I was trying to sell a song? And no one asked you anything...
@specialbreedsb78 this man couldn't handle 1 person on UA-cam but trying to talk down on artist for actually selling. Now imagine what they go through. Man's crumbled in one comment.
@@seikoellis17 that's why they get the big bucks bro.
@@specialbreedsb78 no it doesn't they don't get big bucks to deal with idiots who can't handle their own tactics. They get paid to put out music and the fans/idiots comes with it.
Blame the artist not the company, it's their greed that put them in the position they are in, not the love of the music. They turned their back on their gift for money and fame and found out ..the end
I actually respected Tommy for saying he’s not a hip hop artist because I don’t really see it like we saw it with early Post Malone. My problem is when he said that but didn’t stand on business and still submitted “Million Dollar Baby” as a hip hop song for the grammy awards.
Tommy messed up by not putting his 2 smash hit songs on the album..😂 he would have sold minimum 10k off just those 2 songs
What’s crazy is that sales don’t equate to popularity and relevancy. People don’t Buy music anymore They stream it.
This generation is getting a taste of one hit wonders, and I love that for y'all.😂 it's plenty one hit wonders on my playlist from when I was growing up. They'll be fine😂
Ok old head
Tommy would have been just perfectly fine if he hadn't let out that tweet.... All he had to was.... NOTHING!!!! And that's what makes his situation kind of frustrating. Watching aspiring up-and-coming great artist Basically kill Their careers....
Music today is super watered down it’s all trendy then it is made with any passion or replay value early 2000s everyone went platinum with Good body of work everyone today just drops gets a hit from tik tok flops anyways I feel like hip hop and other genres are losing there identity’s to younger audiences and trends and social media antics
People actually locked in took music seriously
5:25 The way Coi Leray says IDGAF always makes me laugh 😂
Trump call him lil pimp 😂
Thanks Lue....this was very accurate and informative journalism.😎
20:48 is only 2000 of us 😂💯💯
The Carter on the opening had me ready to RAGE 🤣
Lmfaooo! Man, me too!!! I was about to go off because that album is a classic!