I've had good luck with the laser toner method but even better success using vinyl stencils cut on a Silhouette or Circut machine. Also, the ideal place to do your etching is on top of a running clothes dryer. It's nicely warm, and the vibration helps keep the etchant aggitated.
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you going over proper disposal methods. Great Video! I'm going to have to get some Brass stock from the local home center now.
Was searching for a commercial option to produce a name plate. Couldn't find a thing, then I stumbled across your video. Brilliant, bought materials and followed the laser printer method. It's worked better than I could dream of! Thank you :)
Well if you only need to make one there's hardly a place you can find which will make it and make it worth the cost. For serial production though, making lots of them, you can probably find a lot of producers willing to make it for a price point that makes sense per plate.
Another great video!! Very detailed in the various methods of applying a resist along with what did and didn't work! The extra effort you put into this saves the rest of us having to go through the same experimentation. I also like your methods of finishing off the projects. As others have commented I REALLY appreciate that you went into how to properly dispose of the solution so as not to pollute the water! I find a lot of DIY videos that use toxic solutions of all kinds don't discuss this and I'm absolutely mortified to see what people pour down the sink which means we're all potentially drinking it not to mention contaminating the environment! Kudos and bravo to you!
That, my man, is a very thorough and professional presentation. You answered questions that I didn’t know enough to ask. This one is going into storage.
Thanks Daniel! That Craftsman DP badge gave me an idea using your technique to restore the number plate for my 1950 King Seeley that I messed up during cleanup...the trick is matching the original font. Great that you gave a fun shout out to Chris. An amazing man...like you!
How bad is it messed up? Maybe you can take a good quality photo of it and trace what you can't match through fonts? There are also good services like WhatTheFont and Identifont that can help you identify fonts, but oftentimes for these old vintage stuff the fonts were simply not standardized how they are now, and many of those old fonts may never even have been digitized.
Very. I used a 10:1 cleaner solution (10 H2O) in my ultrasonic to remove a decade worth of being in a horse stall on the ground. It was fine until I pulled it out and touched it...all the enamel came off but the Stamped numbers are fine. Luckily I got it's sister Band Saw with it which is pristine (well covered) and its plate is identical & pristine. The originals are .050 AL but for all the time and energy I've put into restoring it been kicking around a brass one with the OEM detail and numbers that I can put a nice Restored by and date for whom ever gets it next...likely my son. They don't build them like these anymore and hopefully never sees a horse stall again. Your etching gave me the idea to hi res scan the one from the Band Saw and the stamped numbers from the dead one (again archaic font) and trace them if necessary in AI or ACAD to get it as original as possible. Thanks much for the Font links, I'll check them out and if none match, on to the tedious tracing. Thanks again! Always enjoy your work and videos!
Great video. Perfect level of detail. Thank you so much. I've had my laser for 8 years and thought a CNC mill was my only solution for working metal. This opened all new doors
This is the most comprehensive and informative video on this topic i've seen. I've been using the toner transfer method on aluminium for the branding on my product, and am thinking of offering a premium brass version so it's awesome to discover I can use similar processes. Also I never thought of using a laser to create the mask on a painted coating. I think i've gotta start using this approach as the printer and heating method has a high failure rate for me due to 'ghosting' and pinholes. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge :)
Using the closed-cell foam as a float is very clever. Another thing that will speed up etching is agitation - either mechanically (stirring or tilting) or with an aquarium bubbler. Parts that sit still etch slower because the etchant in contact with a given surface becomes saturated and thus etches slower, so you want to give it a swish to make sure that "stale" etchant is getting replaced frequently. Another option for exposing photoresist, used by some who make PCBs, is to use a dry-film photoresist that gets ironed or laminated on, and then exposing it with an MSLA 3d resin printer.
...me from the beach in Weston-super-Mare, England (much too cold!) !! Lol! I only own an ink jet printer, but a shed load of Sharpies, so will try this, everything will have brass labels!!
i was wondering if that would work. the ex kept our trophy/plaque shop and she does tons of vinyl, mostly for shirts, but can do other materials, too. we could use an oxidizing solution on brass plates that would turn the engraved parts black very quickly.
Awesome video, I also saw a video where they uses a type of plastic foil designed to use for etching. It uses UV light to transfer the protective layer. This method was very easy to use.
Yeah, it's called a UV resist, and does offer a little better result, but it requires the film and a source of UV light. The sun works, but is not reliable.
Beautiful work! The toner transfer method produces an amazing result. With such a high resolution, I bet you could do simple gradients and patterns using dithering. If it works well, it might be possible to do a dithered photograph.
Indeed, though I wouldn't do so high resolution. You can look at etched printing plates which were commonly used in letterpress printing up until the '80s for inspiration. I would recommend checking out the short movie "The Collection" on Vimeo, by Adam Roffman about a collection of old printing plates with some beautiful shots of plates displaying this halftone patterning. I think that quality is about the highest you can expect working.
Lol I came here from watching the etching video on Clickspring with the photo resist. This seems like a really good DIY alternative if you don't want a whole setup.
One method more is to do as in making a PCB. You spray the positive or negative etch resist on to your part and let it dry. Then have the design printed on a transparent sheet as black as you can get. Put the print against the etch resistant surface, shine UVA light on it enough (experimenting needed, usually 5-10 mins), remove the transparent sheet, develope the etch resist in sodium hydroxide solution (lye) and finally etch away :) Works always, doesn't creep under the resist much.
Yes, this is the traditional way of doing it, however the method I showcase doesn't require any special materials or tools. You can even forgo the laminator and use a clothes iron instead.
Most of the UV/photo resist materials will expose in simple sunlight. No special light exposure setup needed. And if spraying stuff isn't your thing, photoresist film is available. This also has the benefit of being able to reuse your printout. You can use inkjet or laser printer to print on transparency film. You could even use dot-matrix if you still have one of those. This method is less specialty tool intensive since you don't need a heat source other than the sun. This may be difficult for cave dwellers though.
Haha i love the Clickspring reference!:) I noticed at 10:32 you said that you could sprinkle baking soda on there too neutralize the acid, wich is correct. But well im swedish too so i recognized the can you were pouring from, that looked a lot like a bakpulver can and that's a mix of bikarbonat (baking soda) and citric acid! So it will foam and fizz in contact with water not acid! Because there is already acid in powdered form in there!!
You are correct about the baking powder, and what was in the can once. These days I'm just using it as a canister for baking soda so I don't have to use the big 1kg box of it. It's a bit more practical :)
This is perfect for my needs. I have many sign plates that would have cost an arm and a leg to have made in order to comply with boat safety regs. I will get a laser printer and make them myself. (May also look at the cost of a small vinyl letter cutter as one of the responses mentions good results.)
We've been trying out metal etching and you can also use an iron to apply heat to bind print to the metal instead of a laminator (if you don't have one).
I think I mention that in the video, no? But yes, you absolutely can, but it's much more difficult to get good even results, especially over larger surfaces.
You should agitate the chemistry. Being an surface oxidation process you need the mechanical action on the surface. Also would suggest adding som HCl to the mix :D Try to heat up to 54 C to get an optimum reaction - and for a smooth surface maybe try to get the acid slightly saturated with Cu :) Anyway, love your innovative ideas :) Would love to connect!
Daniel i knew you was a good guy because you contact me after a silly comment about the make knife on the we like to make stuff group . (i missed a a email about filling a form and you help me) but im so glade i found your video lots of details on how to do the process 👍🙂🤘 you rock
Great tutorial! Toward the end, you mentioned that the plaque with the laser paint removal looked bolder -- as if the acid ate away under the edges, but if you look back at the shot of all three plaques prior to etching (5:40), you can see that both laser methods were initially bolder than the toner transfer method, especially the laser paint removal method. Could this have been caused by your laser engraver focal distance being slightly off? I've actually intentionally "de-focused" my laser before to achieve a "bold" effect.
Interesting theory, but actually looking at the laser paint it's almost identical to the toner transfer, whereas the regular spray paint looks bolder. If you look when I wash the laser paint off you can see that it's thinner than it first appears out of the laser. I'm a stickler for the laser cutter, so I can assure you that the focus was set correctly, but you are right in that the boldness of the regular spray paint was seen before the etching. I think I'm going to chalk it up to the paint I chose, that may have melted and retracted a little. I've done it before with great and accurate success, but I never bothered looking closely which kind of spray paint I used. Some variants I'm sure work better than others. Also, of course, some power settings of the laser, as I may have had it set too high to make sure I punched through the paint.
Playing with power settings might be interesting. Have you also tried using dry moly lube spray instead of the Cermark? I've used it for marking metals, and I'm wondering if it would resist the acid where the Cermark failed. Nonetheless, I've favorited this video so I can refer back to it later. Well done!
The lube sprays on like spray paint then dries. When hit with the laser, it turns into a black, almost indestructible mark -- much like Cermark, but at 1/10th the price. Not quite as dark a black, but very usable. There are plenty of YT videos on it -- check out ua-cam.com/video/5ziyB9EEnL8/v-deo.html
Not quite, if you look at the second and third plates they were both etched in the laser on similar settings, but with different coatings. The kerf had minimal, if any, effect in this.
I've used glossy photo paper for pcb's and it worked well and was wondering if it would work on brass too? I got a pack of them at the $ store and it worked first time for the circuit boards with the iron on process. Good video.
FYI, a strong base is better for disposing of a body than a strong acid is. Acid can take a few days to dissolve a body, but lye heated to 300 degrees Fahrenheit can dissolve a body in about 3 hours.
Awesome video by the way! Few simple questions if you don't mind. 1. What is the thickness of the brass plate you used? 2. Where did you obtain it? 3. I noticed your vice had some sort of padding between the claws, mind sharing where you found those?
1. No clue, 1-2mm? Not important as long as it's not so thin you etch through. 2. Local metal supplier, but many hobby stores carry stuff like that too. 3. Hardware store. Just look for soft vise jaws. You can also make yourself by gluing rubber or leather.
I like the idea of suspending the plaque (or in my case, usually circuit boards) in the acid with a piece of floating foam. Not sure if it'll hold up to the Muriatic and Peroxide etching brew I use, but I'll give it a shot next time. :)
Well unless it attacks plastics I think you'd be pretty safe. Just make sure the foam you use is closed cell foam so it doesn't absorb your "brew". The stuff that oftentimes comes packaged around electronics these days (as opposed to styrofoam of old) works really well.
Beautifully done video, very instructive and useful for people wanting to try it out for themselves. I have learned a great deal from it, and may want to try it out one day. Thank you very much!! I have a question here: If I had a sheet of A4 or A3 size paper with printed text on it, can it be engraved onto a copper plate using your techniques? Please respond. Thank you.
So... It's essentially etching a printed circuit board. I have had good results from using a cheap Brother HL-2240 laser printer I got for $10 at the local second hand store. Lots of people say this printer is bad for etching. Personally I believe most people get bad results because of laminators. They are more unpredictable IMO. I use a travel type clothes iron. That type doesn't have steam and the associated holes in the surface. I try to find a piece of magazine print that is mostly glossy white and print to it. *A word of warning,* the laser printer itself uses a very hot drum to melt the ink onto the paper. Some glossy paper used in magazines can't handle the heat and will melt a bit. I would exercise caution before adding tape to anything I am running through a laser printer. If you get junk on the heated roller your going to damage the printer. I have never had problems with printing on paper that is cut close to the standard A4 size within about 80-90%. Just get your sides kinda straight and be sure the ink will print on the paper part first. I always do a test print on white paper first. Disclosure, I've never created content on this subject, so don't waste your time checking. I casually upload stuff I find interesting, but am not monotized, nor do I plan to be. These were just some tips from what I have had success with. Further on the subject of etching plates, some people etch aluminum and glass using a similar technique, although the professional method uses dry film photoresist with clear transparencies. The main benefit of photoresist is the fine detail accuracy, so I've been told. I can resolve 0.25 mil traces using the technique I mentioned above.
I've had so bad luck with clothes irons, and always get consistently good results with laminators though. The key is that you have to feed it though a bunch of times on the highest heat. You need to transfer enough heat into the brass and toner to melt them together. As for taping the magazine paper, well, you see in the video how it looked like without the backer. Had to basically tear apart the whole side of the printer to get it out. It simply couldn't handle that thin paper. If you find thicker glossier paper that may be better, but may also require more work to get off afterwards.
Switch & Lever I understand ;) I didn't expect to melt a page, the time that happened to me. I started using junk mail flyers after that one. The page that melted on me was from an old oversized European magazine I had laying around. It looked like they had some kind of plastic component in the paper itself. There are always little odd ball issues like this when using random stuff. Most people that have posted content that includes tape for use with laser printers/laminators tend to use kapton tape (the high temp stuff). I find it interesting that you used blue tape without problems. It uses a different kind of adhesive than masking or packing tapes and that looks like a solution for some. I think there are also issues with the brand/type of laser printer. A lot of people say that the HL-2240 printer I have is terrible for etching because they can't get the ink to transfer off of the paper. From what I've read, this printer uses a hotter than average drum to bond ink to the page. I use an iron for around 5 minutes straight and the resulting bond is so strong I can scratch the paper backing off with a fingernail without losing ink or details. I think a lot of problems people have had with this printer are due to the heat and pressure needed for transfer. I can't imagine a laminator coming close to the heat and pressure of 5 minutes under an iron. I also use particle board under the piece I'm transferring to. It seems to be the best insulator to keep heat where I need it. I'm glad you posted this. I've been trying to motivate myself to make a few little label plates for some projects instead of my tacky black or silver sharpie markings. It's always helpful to see a well made video demonstrating how to do the job. Now I just need to get the nerve to try dry film photoresist I ordered a month ago ;) Thanks -Jake
@@UpcycleElectronics Question: would it be possible to disconnect the heat set roller so it does not fuse the toner to the paper? I ask this because I have removed many a jammed page from laser printers that jammed after the toner was deposited but before the heat roller and the image is perfect, but one puff of air and its gone.
@@mdunbar008 I'm no expert on printer designs. I vaguely recall reading that the laser is used to control static charge on the drum, which then controls where the toner powder will stick. Then the paper is rolled over the drum directly followed by the heated roller. I believe this means the toner stays stuck to the paper based on the same static. I know, from watching another channel that creates uploads about repairing printers, there is a charge on the drum itself. This charge controls the amount of toner that is distributed onto the drum. The charge is variable according to the amount of toner left in the cartridge, ie when the cartridge is full the voltage is lowest, when toner is low the voltage is highest. (*Edit or maybe it was the other way around...let's just say: change in toner level = change in drum voltage) This ensures that the toner deposition rate is even. This is also why it is important to "reset" a toner cartridge if refilled. Continuing this tangent one step further...I plan on modifying my printer to manually set this voltage in order to control the toner distribution and attempt to create darker prints than otherwise possible. If you want to disconnect the heater it should be really easy. The heater has a wire connector. It usually has relay based control on the board as well. The element must be able to be switched off before an over temperature condition happens. That is about all I know when it comes to this subject. Marco Reps has some really old uploads about using a lexmark laser printer to do some direct to PCB printing like this. IIRC he had to use a special printer that had a direct feed through option used to print CD labels. I think he did something to the printer where the product was not "fused." I recall he was using an acetone vapor technique to fix the toner to his boards. I think he abandoned that project though, either because of resolution or the single sided limitations of such a process. I probably have those uploads of his saved in one of my PCB fabrication playlists. I haven't saved a bunch of stuff on those lists in awhile so they will be pretty low on my publicly available playlists, but I have around 5-6 different pcb fab playlists covering all aspects, -all references to other people's stuff :-) -Jake
excellent video 100%!! super cool to include the whole lifetime of the project (disposal and recycling) fantastic! why did the special laser paint fail? again super great job
I honestly don't know. I'm guessing something in the paint was attacked by the acid. The coating bonds with the brass (or steel) which it is laser etched onto, and it's tough to the point of needing to be sanded off if you want it gone. My assumption is that whatever they use to make this special paint doesn't hold up to ferric chloride. I did another test off camera and had the same result, so all things considered it's most definitely an issue with the paint+acid.
Yup you cut that like Chris. Miles away and then file it down. He would have spent way more time though getting every bevel perfect. Got to admire his work.
I used to do projects like that. Perfectionist all the way. Of course I was never close to Chris standard but did the best I could. Now I have scaled back a little. I still take pride in the work but I am not going to spend twice the time for perfection. That way I lot more gets done in the limited time I have. Great work by the way.
4:25 i used warm-hot water, i let the piece sit in there 2 minutes. Then you dont have to rub so long and hard as shown in the video. You could also use a soldering iron for the heat, not the tip but the bigger pipe. Rub it consistently back and forth with slow-medium speedover the paper until you see the paper start to get brown which might be in ~10seconds. I prefer the chemical way with a mix of Isoalcohol+25%Xylene since Acetone+Iso didnt worked with my toner brand. The chemical method is the fastest and most reliable to transfer the toner even to curved urfaces like knifes.
Much more difficult to get an even heat with a soldering iron though. I could see it being useful for non flat surfaces, but other than that a laminator or clothes iron is still your best bet.
i dont have a laminator or laser engraver thats why i tried the good old low tech ;D solvent method had the best results for me after i figured out the recipe for the mixture :)
Toner held up good the other two broke down. If you have the money you can use Kodak photo resist. Ferric Chloride will permanently stain most everything it touches, clothing, concrete, etc.
Great project! I'm not sure disposing copper waste in the way you demonstrated is a good idea, though. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the solid stuff left by evaporation water soluble copper salt in solid form? It will redissolve into water when getting wet and release copper ions.
The issue is more with what the copper does to the water treatment plant and how much is caught before it leaves the plant. On a garbage dump it poses less risk, and hopefully would get incinerated before it has a chance to lay around. Even if that's the case, garbage dumps tend (or should) not to be located where they pose a risk to ground water.
Great video! I particularly like how you included information about how to responsibly dispose of your waste materials.
You mean a body...👍
I've had good luck with the laser toner method but even better success using vinyl stencils cut on a Silhouette or Circut machine. Also, the ideal place to do your etching is on top of a running clothes dryer. It's nicely warm, and the vibration helps keep the etchant aggitated.
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you going over proper disposal methods. Great Video! I'm going to have to get some Brass stock from the local home center now.
Was searching for a commercial option to produce a name plate. Couldn't find a thing, then I stumbled across your video. Brilliant, bought materials and followed the laser printer method. It's worked better than I could dream of! Thank you :)
Well if you only need to make one there's hardly a place you can find which will make it and make it worth the cost. For serial production though, making lots of them, you can probably find a lot of producers willing to make it for a price point that makes sense per plate.
Another great video!! Very detailed in the various methods of applying a resist along with what did and didn't work! The extra effort you put into this saves the rest of us having to go through the same experimentation. I also like your methods of finishing off the projects. As others have commented I REALLY appreciate that you went into how to properly dispose of the solution so as not to pollute the water! I find a lot of DIY videos that use toxic solutions of all kinds don't discuss this and I'm absolutely mortified to see what people pour down the sink which means we're all potentially drinking it not to mention contaminating the environment! Kudos and bravo to you!
That, my man, is a very thorough and professional presentation. You answered questions that I didn’t know enough to ask. This one is going into storage.
Haha, loved that Clickspring joke :D
Oh yeah! Was surprised a lot! :)
Just BRILLIANT!
That made me laugh so hard :D
Brilliant, great humor! Chris is the boss!
Thanks Daniel! That Craftsman DP badge gave me an idea using your technique to restore the number plate for my 1950 King Seeley that I messed up during cleanup...the trick is matching the original font. Great that you gave a fun shout out to Chris. An amazing man...like you!
How bad is it messed up? Maybe you can take a good quality photo of it and trace what you can't match through fonts? There are also good services like WhatTheFont and Identifont that can help you identify fonts, but oftentimes for these old vintage stuff the fonts were simply not standardized how they are now, and many of those old fonts may never even have been digitized.
Very. I used a 10:1 cleaner solution (10 H2O) in my ultrasonic to remove a decade worth of being in a horse stall on the ground. It was fine until I pulled it out and touched it...all the enamel came off but the Stamped numbers are fine. Luckily I got it's sister Band Saw with it which is pristine (well covered) and its plate is identical & pristine. The originals are .050 AL but for all the time and energy I've put into restoring it been kicking around a brass one with the OEM detail and numbers that I can put a nice Restored by and date for whom ever gets it next...likely my son. They don't build them like these anymore and hopefully never sees a horse stall again.
Your etching gave me the idea to hi res scan the one from the Band Saw and the stamped numbers from the dead one (again archaic font) and trace them if necessary in AI or ACAD to get it as original as possible. Thanks much for the Font links, I'll check them out and if none match, on to the tedious tracing. Thanks again! Always enjoy your work and videos!
Finally someone described well the method to use only home tools. Thanks!
This is a great video. I love the attention to dealing with the etchant and the trial of a few methods!
The tip on using the foam to float the plates is brilliant! Thank you.
Thank you for being so thorough and addressing environmental concerns. Excellent video!
Chris from Clickspring!!!! Awesome video
He is an officer and a gentleman! Cheers Greg, appreciate it!
Chris is a brass working god.
Great video. Perfect level of detail. Thank you so much. I've had my laser for 8 years and thought a CNC mill was my only solution for working metal. This opened all new doors
This is the most comprehensive and informative video on this topic i've seen. I've been using the toner transfer method on aluminium for the branding on my product, and am thinking of offering a premium brass version so it's awesome to discover I can use similar processes. Also I never thought of using a laser to create the mask on a painted coating. I think i've gotta start using this approach as the printer and heating method has a high failure rate for me due to 'ghosting' and pinholes.
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge :)
My pleasure! I checked out your stuff and you make some really high quality and gorgeous microphones! Let me know how it works out for you 🙂
Inkjet won't work, this is done with a laser printer. Laser toner is a thermoplastic that can be transferred with heat or solvent, inkjet ink is not.
Thanks for that really well structured video. I was super happy to see you treating waste disposal seriously!
I’m obsessed with this. You’re amazing.
So cool to see another video of yours. Always fun and interesting! About woke up the rest of the family laughing out loud at the Clickspring line.
Great tutorial. I appreciate the discussion on how to dispose of hazardous waste properly.
Believe me, the best and most beautiful video I've seen, I benefited a lot from it, thank you
Most excellent 'real' descriptions ...and a humorous intro
Excellent video! The Chris cameo was unexpected and funny (This Old Tony style). I love it!
That's so neat! I want to put brass plaques on everything!
I really enjoyed your explanation, great balance of info and procedure.
Clickspring Chris. The engineered presicion voiceover. So clean..........sooooo clean and crisp. Nice etching btw.
Great video as always man. Awesome results too! Well done :)
Awesome tutorial! Gotta try it some time soon. Good to see you being environmentally concious!
Using the closed-cell foam as a float is very clever. Another thing that will speed up etching is agitation - either mechanically (stirring or tilting) or with an aquarium bubbler. Parts that sit still etch slower because the etchant in contact with a given surface becomes saturated and thus etches slower, so you want to give it a swish to make sure that "stale" etchant is getting replaced frequently.
Another option for exposing photoresist, used by some who make PCBs, is to use a dry-film photoresist that gets ironed or laminated on, and then exposing it with an MSLA 3d resin printer.
Wonderful and useful, and thanks for that clicksping cameo, it certainly made my day 😂
Haha! Thank Chris, he made it all possible 😀
I also love the fact that you showed how to dispose of the material afterward.
You get a sub for having Chris and joking around.
Thanks for showing how to discard of the leftovers properly. Great video
I like how you can do this with just a laser printer, ferric chloride, enamel paint, and sandpaper. Very DIY!
Your animations are getting better every video. Great project btw
This guy really produce too notch quality videos!!!
...me from the beach in Weston-super-Mare, England (much too cold!) !! Lol! I only own an ink jet printer, but a shed load of Sharpies, so will try this, everything will have brass labels!!
Hahahahaha
I loved the brief commentary of clickspring 👌I love both of your channels.
I love your humor as much as you videos.
Thank you Lisa! Comments like yours warms my heart and makes doing all this worth it! 🙂
A 4th option that I used was to cut the design on a vinyl cutter, stick it to the metal and etch. Same way I did a few PCBs too.
i was wondering if that would work. the ex kept our trophy/plaque shop and she does tons of vinyl, mostly for shirts, but can do other materials, too. we could use an oxidizing solution on brass plates that would turn the engraved parts black very quickly.
Guess what I'm working on...?😊 Great tutorial and cool result. Well done Sir!
Hahaha! Shoooooow meeee!!! 😄
Switch & Lever Sunday of everything goes well 😊
So glad you're back with a new video... going to have to give this one a try! Looking forward to what you bring in 2018.
Fantastic video man! I guess I'm a bit late to the party, but it's still great - thanks for the tips on properly discarding the leftovers as well!
Awesome video, I also saw a video where they uses a type of plastic foil designed to use for etching. It uses UV light to transfer the protective layer. This method was very easy to use.
Yeah, it's called a UV resist, and does offer a little better result, but it requires the film and a source of UV light. The sun works, but is not reliable.
Beautiful work! The toner transfer method produces an amazing result. With such a high resolution, I bet you could do simple gradients and patterns using dithering. If it works well, it might be possible to do a dithered photograph.
Indeed, though I wouldn't do so high resolution. You can look at etched printing plates which were commonly used in letterpress printing up until the '80s for inspiration. I would recommend checking out the short movie "The Collection" on Vimeo, by Adam Roffman about a collection of old printing plates with some beautiful shots of plates displaying this halftone patterning. I think that quality is about the highest you can expect working.
Excellent video! Clear and to the point!
Best anime crossover : Switch & Lever and Clickspring
So happy to see the printer method worked so well. Now everyone has a laser to play with.
Pretty cool stuff! Enjoyed watching this project
Thanks for the detail and also how to safely dispose of the copper.
THIS is how you show how to make something. Bravo!!
Fantastic video! I'm going to have to try this using my vinyl cutter.
Hmm, interesting! I'm sure it would work, but I wonder how fine details you could get with it.
Lol I came here from watching the etching video on Clickspring with the photo resist. This seems like a really good DIY alternative if you don't want a whole setup.
Thank you for sharing this video. I can’t wait to give this a try!
One method more is to do as in making a PCB. You spray the positive or negative etch resist on to your part and let it dry. Then have the design printed on a transparent sheet as black as you can get. Put the print against the etch resistant surface, shine UVA light on it enough (experimenting needed, usually 5-10 mins), remove the transparent sheet, develope the etch resist in sodium hydroxide solution (lye) and finally etch away :) Works always, doesn't creep under the resist much.
Yes, this is the traditional way of doing it, however the method I showcase doesn't require any special materials or tools. You can even forgo the laminator and use a clothes iron instead.
Most of the UV/photo resist materials will expose in simple sunlight. No special light exposure setup needed. And if spraying stuff isn't your thing, photoresist film is available. This also has the benefit of being able to reuse your printout. You can use inkjet or laser printer to print on transparency film. You could even use dot-matrix if you still have one of those. This method is less specialty tool intensive since you don't need a heat source other than the sun. This may be difficult for cave dwellers though.
Thank you for the review of the process, I have several projects i plan on doing this with.
Cool cool! Looking forward to seeing some! :)
Haha i love the Clickspring reference!:)
I noticed at 10:32 you said that you could sprinkle baking soda on there too neutralize the acid, wich is correct. But well im swedish too so i recognized the can you were pouring from, that looked a lot like a bakpulver can and that's a mix of bikarbonat (baking soda) and citric acid! So it will foam and fizz in contact with water not acid!
Because there is already acid in powdered form in there!!
You are correct about the baking powder, and what was in the can once. These days I'm just using it as a canister for baking soda so I don't have to use the big 1kg box of it. It's a bit more practical :)
This is perfect for my needs. I have many sign plates that would have cost an arm and a leg to have made in order to comply with boat safety regs. I will get a laser printer and make them myself. (May also look at the cost of a small vinyl letter cutter as one of the responses mentions good results.)
Thank you for this! Super helpful and just what I needed, thank you for providing a method I can easily diy.
Excellent video! Thank you. The foam idea is neat.
simple and straightforward.. .. great video thank u.. .
Great video! Very well made! As a tutorial it is very complete as well!
Awesome video. I will link this to a forum of my peers
Nicely done!
We've been trying out metal etching and you can also use an iron to apply heat to bind print to the metal instead of a laminator (if you don't have one).
I think I mention that in the video, no? But yes, you absolutely can, but it's much more difficult to get good even results, especially over larger surfaces.
Really interesting process. Thanks for teaching me some things.
You should agitate the chemistry. Being an surface oxidation process you need the mechanical action on the surface.
Also would suggest adding som HCl to the mix :D
Try to heat up to 54 C to get an optimum reaction - and for a smooth surface maybe try to get the acid slightly saturated with Cu :)
Anyway, love your innovative ideas :)
Would love to connect!
Great video! Appreciate the comparisons and the disposal information.
Best tutorial video I have ever seen!!!
excellent video. I especially like the comments on clean up as other similar videos omit that part. thanks!
The clickspring cameo was spot on
Amazing video! You give me a great idea with paint and laser. I will test it.
Like that. Thanks for sharing! 🇬🇧
Daniel i knew you was a good guy because you contact me after a silly comment about the make knife on the we like to make stuff group . (i missed a a email about filling a form and you help me) but im so glade i found your video lots of details on how to do the process 👍🙂🤘 you rock
Haha! Thanks man!
You can also dispose of liquid wastes using cat litter to solidify them, it is a pretty standard way a lot of hobby darkrooms solidify liquid wastes.
When I use this method I will be posting a link in my video to this useful piece of resource!!
Great tutorial! Toward the end, you mentioned that the plaque with the laser paint removal looked bolder -- as if the acid ate away under the edges, but if you look back at the shot of all three plaques prior to etching (5:40), you can see that both laser methods were initially bolder than the toner transfer method, especially the laser paint removal method. Could this have been caused by your laser engraver focal distance being slightly off? I've actually intentionally "de-focused" my laser before to achieve a "bold" effect.
Interesting theory, but actually looking at the laser paint it's almost identical to the toner transfer, whereas the regular spray paint looks bolder. If you look when I wash the laser paint off you can see that it's thinner than it first appears out of the laser. I'm a stickler for the laser cutter, so I can assure you that the focus was set correctly, but you are right in that the boldness of the regular spray paint was seen before the etching. I think I'm going to chalk it up to the paint I chose, that may have melted and retracted a little. I've done it before with great and accurate success, but I never bothered looking closely which kind of spray paint I used. Some variants I'm sure work better than others. Also, of course, some power settings of the laser, as I may have had it set too high to make sure I punched through the paint.
Playing with power settings might be interesting. Have you also tried using dry moly lube spray instead of the Cermark? I've used it for marking metals, and I'm wondering if it would resist the acid where the Cermark failed. Nonetheless, I've favorited this video so I can refer back to it later. Well done!
Burning the lube on with a laser? Or do you mean masking it in some other way? I've never heard of it used in that way.
The lube sprays on like spray paint then dries. When hit with the laser, it turns into a black, almost indestructible mark -- much like Cermark, but at 1/10th the price. Not quite as dark a black, but very usable. There are plenty of YT videos on it -- check out ua-cam.com/video/5ziyB9EEnL8/v-deo.html
Looking at 5:42 I don't think you've allowed for the kerf of the laser when cutting, which is probably why it came out "bolder" than the others.
Not quite, if you look at the second and third plates they were both etched in the laser on similar settings, but with different coatings. The kerf had minimal, if any, effect in this.
Awesome result.I di it!.Thanks
Microwave the etchant for a few seconds to heat it and that will speed the process up. I do this for PCB etching.
I did this in the workshop at my previous workplace. I think they would have objected to me microwaving ferric chloride in the kitchen 😄
I've used glossy photo paper for pcb's and it worked well and was wondering if it would work on brass too? I got a pack of them at the $ store and it worked first time for the circuit boards with the iron on process. Good video.
FYI, a strong base is better for disposing of a body than a strong acid is. Acid can take a few days to dissolve a body, but lye heated to 300 degrees Fahrenheit can dissolve a body in about 3 hours.
Excellent video, thanks for posting!
Awesome video by the way! Few simple questions if you don't mind. 1. What is the thickness of the brass plate you used? 2. Where did you obtain it? 3. I noticed your vice had some sort of padding between the claws, mind sharing where you found those?
1. No clue, 1-2mm? Not important as long as it's not so thin you etch through. 2. Local metal supplier, but many hobby stores carry stuff like that too. 3. Hardware store. Just look for soft vise jaws. You can also make yourself by gluing rubber or leather.
That is great. Now I want a plaque on everything I make.
I can only recommend it! It really classes up everything!
I like the idea of suspending the plaque (or in my case, usually circuit boards) in the acid with a piece of floating foam. Not sure if it'll hold up to the Muriatic and Peroxide etching brew I use, but I'll give it a shot next time. :)
Well unless it attacks plastics I think you'd be pretty safe. Just make sure the foam you use is closed cell foam so it doesn't absorb your "brew". The stuff that oftentimes comes packaged around electronics these days (as opposed to styrofoam of old) works really well.
Really cool process and video.
Excellent video
Not sure if this was a comedy or a how to video- excellent video all in all!
This is an excellent tutorial, Thank you.
Beautifully done video, very instructive and useful for people wanting to try it out for themselves.
I have learned a great deal from it, and may want to try it out one day. Thank you very much!! I have a question here: If I had a sheet of A4 or A3 size paper with printed text on it, can it be engraved onto a copper plate using your techniques? Please respond. Thank you.
So... It's essentially etching a printed circuit board. I have had good results from using a cheap Brother HL-2240 laser printer I got for $10 at the local second hand store. Lots of people say this printer is bad for etching. Personally I believe most people get bad results because of laminators. They are more unpredictable IMO. I use a travel type clothes iron. That type doesn't have steam and the associated holes in the surface. I try to find a piece of magazine print that is mostly glossy white and print to it.
*A word of warning,* the laser printer itself uses a very hot drum to melt the ink onto the paper. Some glossy paper used in magazines can't handle the heat and will melt a bit. I would exercise caution before adding tape to anything I am running through a laser printer. If you get junk on the heated roller your going to damage the printer. I have never had problems with printing on paper that is cut close to the standard A4 size within about 80-90%. Just get your sides kinda straight and be sure the ink will print on the paper part first. I always do a test print on white paper first.
Disclosure, I've never created content on this subject, so don't waste your time checking. I casually upload stuff I find interesting, but am not monotized, nor do I plan to be. These were just some tips from what I have had success with.
Further on the subject of etching plates, some people etch aluminum and glass using a similar technique, although the professional method uses dry film photoresist with clear transparencies. The main benefit of photoresist is the fine detail accuracy, so I've been told. I can resolve 0.25 mil traces using the technique I mentioned above.
I've had so bad luck with clothes irons, and always get consistently good results with laminators though. The key is that you have to feed it though a bunch of times on the highest heat. You need to transfer enough heat into the brass and toner to melt them together.
As for taping the magazine paper, well, you see in the video how it looked like without the backer. Had to basically tear apart the whole side of the printer to get it out. It simply couldn't handle that thin paper. If you find thicker glossier paper that may be better, but may also require more work to get off afterwards.
Switch & Lever
I understand ;)
I didn't expect to melt a page, the time that happened to me. I started using junk mail flyers after that one. The page that melted on me was from an old oversized European magazine I had laying around. It looked like they had some kind of plastic component in the paper itself. There are always little odd ball issues like this when using random stuff.
Most people that have posted content that includes tape for use with laser printers/laminators tend to use kapton tape (the high temp stuff).
I find it interesting that you used blue tape without problems. It uses a different kind of adhesive than masking or packing tapes and that looks like a solution for some.
I think there are also issues with the brand/type of laser printer. A lot of people say that the HL-2240 printer I have is terrible for etching because they can't get the ink to transfer off of the paper. From what I've read, this printer uses a hotter than average drum to bond ink to the page. I use an iron for around 5 minutes straight and the resulting bond is so strong I can scratch the paper backing off with a fingernail without losing ink or details. I think a lot of problems people have had with this printer are due to the heat and pressure needed for transfer. I can't imagine a laminator coming close to the heat and pressure of 5 minutes under an iron. I also use particle board under the piece I'm transferring to. It seems to be the best insulator to keep heat where I need it.
I'm glad you posted this. I've been trying to motivate myself to make a few little label plates for some projects instead of my tacky black or silver sharpie markings. It's always helpful to see a well made video demonstrating how to do the job. Now I just need to get the nerve to try dry film photoresist I ordered a month ago ;)
Thanks -Jake
@@UpcycleElectronics Question: would it be possible to disconnect the heat set roller so it does not fuse the toner to the paper? I ask this because I have removed many a jammed page from laser printers that jammed after the toner was deposited but before the heat roller and the image is perfect, but one puff of air and its gone.
@@mdunbar008
I'm no expert on printer designs. I vaguely recall reading that the laser is used to control static charge on the drum, which then controls where the toner powder will stick. Then the paper is rolled over the drum directly followed by the heated roller. I believe this means the toner stays stuck to the paper based on the same static.
I know, from watching another channel that creates uploads about repairing printers, there is a charge on the drum itself. This charge controls the amount of toner that is distributed onto the drum. The charge is variable according to the amount of toner left in the cartridge, ie when the cartridge is full the voltage is lowest, when toner is low the voltage is highest. (*Edit or maybe it was the other way around...let's just say: change in toner level = change in drum voltage) This ensures that the toner deposition rate is even. This is also why it is important to "reset" a toner cartridge if refilled. Continuing this tangent one step further...I plan on modifying my printer to manually set this voltage in order to control the toner distribution and attempt to create darker prints than otherwise possible.
If you want to disconnect the heater it should be really easy. The heater has a wire connector. It usually has relay based control on the board as well. The element must be able to be switched off before an over temperature condition happens. That is about all I know when it comes to this subject.
Marco Reps has some really old uploads about using a lexmark laser printer to do some direct to PCB printing like this. IIRC he had to use a special printer that had a direct feed through option used to print CD labels. I think he did something to the printer where the product was not "fused." I recall he was using an acetone vapor technique to fix the toner to his boards. I think he abandoned that project though, either because of resolution or the single sided limitations of such a process. I probably have those uploads of his saved in one of my PCB fabrication playlists. I haven't saved a bunch of stuff on those lists in awhile so they will be pretty low on my publicly available playlists, but I have around 5-6 different pcb fab playlists covering all aspects, -all references to other people's stuff :-)
-Jake
excellent video 100%!! super cool to include the whole lifetime of the project (disposal and recycling) fantastic! why did the special laser paint fail? again super great job
I honestly don't know. I'm guessing something in the paint was attacked by the acid. The coating bonds with the brass (or steel) which it is laser etched onto, and it's tough to the point of needing to be sanded off if you want it gone. My assumption is that whatever they use to make this special paint doesn't hold up to ferric chloride. I did another test off camera and had the same result, so all things considered it's most definitely an issue with the paint+acid.
Yup you cut that like Chris. Miles away and then file it down. He would have spent way more time though getting every bevel perfect. Got to admire his work.
Indeed, but simply don't have his patience. It's admirable for sure!
I used to do projects like that. Perfectionist all the way. Of course I was never close to Chris standard but did the best I could. Now I have scaled back a little. I still take pride in the work but I am not going to spend twice the time for perfection. That way I lot more gets done in the limited time I have.
Great work by the way.
4:25 i used warm-hot water, i let the piece sit in there 2 minutes.
Then you dont have to rub so long and hard as shown in the video.
You could also use a soldering iron for the heat, not the tip but the bigger pipe.
Rub it consistently back and forth with slow-medium speedover the paper until you see the paper start to get brown which might be in ~10seconds.
I prefer the chemical way with a mix of Isoalcohol+25%Xylene since Acetone+Iso didnt worked with my toner brand. The chemical method is the fastest and most reliable to transfer the toner even to curved urfaces like knifes.
Much more difficult to get an even heat with a soldering iron though. I could see it being useful for non flat surfaces, but other than that a laminator or clothes iron is still your best bet.
i dont have a laminator or laser engraver thats why i tried the good old low tech ;D
solvent method had the best results for me after i figured out the recipe for the mixture :)
Switch & Lever will any laser printer work, and what is your take on monochrome laser printers?
Thank you for sharing your amazing video.
Great video. Thanks for sharing it.
Will use this on my kt120 tube amp. Thanks mate. Subbed
Cool! Would love to see the results! Shoot me a message when you've made it 🙂
Toner held up good the other two broke down. If you have the money you can use Kodak photo resist. Ferric Chloride will permanently stain most everything it touches, clothing, concrete, etc.
Great project! I'm not sure disposing copper waste in the way you demonstrated is a good idea, though. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the solid stuff left by evaporation water soluble copper salt in solid form? It will redissolve into water when getting wet and release copper ions.
The issue is more with what the copper does to the water treatment plant and how much is caught before it leaves the plant. On a garbage dump it poses less risk, and hopefully would get incinerated before it has a chance to lay around. Even if that's the case, garbage dumps tend (or should) not to be located where they pose a risk to ground water.
happy new year and thanks for sharing