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I care a lot about my discography page. It’s a birdseye view of all my works. I use it like a musical resume, it’s one of the 3 main links I use to refer people to my music. When I check out a new artist I’ll play a few of their most popular songs, and when I find one I really like I pull up the artist’s discography page to find that album and play the song in context with the other music on the release it’s from. I’ve assumed this isn’t something that only a “die hard” fan does, but it’s what anyone does who is even remotely a fan… or even someone who is just mildly interested.
I tried a waterfall release and my monthly listeners significantly dropped. I was getting good traction on a song algorithmically, and decided to re-release it with a new song, then set meta ads to the new release. What I didn’t realise is the ‘popularity’ metric is reset for this new version of the original song. I’m not sure why but the new song never really took off and my monthly listeners dropped by half. Anyone experienced something similar?
+1 the services that I use for tracking the Popularity Score shows two different songs even when the ISRC codes are the same, so with each new release of the song it looks to me that you are dividing the possibilities of getting a good score
thankyou for this video! IT is so clear! One question, what if you do 1 or 2 singles, and then after the full EP with like 4 or 5 tracks (including the singles) ? You just upload multible new tracks in the same time ?
Great video, thanks! Could you make more content about mid- and bottom-funnel marketing, like collecting emails and selling tickets or merch through email campaigns? It would be helpful to know about key metrics, such as what a good CPC is for collecting emails and what you can expect in return. Also, how many listeners in a city do you need before it makes sense to play a show for around 100 people? Streams are top-of-funnel and don't generate much revenue, so learning more about things like ticket sales, email marketing, and merch sales-which actually make money-would be really useful.
Sorry if this was already answered but I was trying to find this out a while ago and couldnt find any consistent evidence anywhere!! ... If you have both single version of a song and the Waterfalled/E.P. version of the song, once you delete the single version does it get removed from all the playlists it is in? I really wanna clean up my spotify but I don't want it getting removed from playlists.
@@1NoDoze Yeah this is my worry, this is exactly what I need to not happen :/ Guess my Spotify stays messy then..? Is there ANY solution? @AndrewSouthworth
Thanks I searched for that🙏🏽 when will it turn into an EP? Because with 2 songs it is still called a single right? Or can I manually decide if its a single, EP or Album?
Technically on Spotify 1-3 songs is a single, 4-6 is an EP and starting at 7 and up it's an album. However, if its under 7 songs but has 30 minutes of material it will be an album.
Has anyone tried this? I want to know will you pay more if you release multiple songs that are already out with your new release for instance will I be paying for just the new song and the other songs that are already out are free or do I pay for every song on the current release
It depends on your distributor. For DistroKid you don't pay per release, you pay annually for unlimited music distribution. For CDBaby, yes you would pay more for every release even if the songs are already out on other releases.
Wow its like you read my mind, I filmed a video on this last week and it's going live some time this month lol. Basically, they're trying to get more people to use their song in their reels. In the video I filmed I show how i'd run that type of campaign.
i upload on distro from my phone and there’s no option to choose the same code. as long as i pick the same audio file of the song that’s already out, will streaming services realize im re-releasing a song/songs?
Go to your local library, go to a hotel and ask to use their business center, if there is a computer at your job upload it on your lunch break or before you clock in
And no, it will notice that you are using the same audio as another track which may cause issues, but it won’t link the tracks metadata like it needs to in order for it to even be worth doing
I would just do this on a computer, however you need to. If you re-use the audio Spotify and other DSPs will 'probably' figure it out, but imo it isn't worth the risk. As someone else said, try doing it at work or go to a library / hotel, or ask a friend to use theirs if you don't have a computer.
@@AndrewSouthworth interesting. because i’ve just re-uploaded the same audio, and song title and Spotify automatically adds the streams i already had on that song.
When uploading music, do you recommend adding the Extras options? Its kind of weird that after you paid for their service, there's a Social Media Pack and other stuff that would cost a lot to do if you uploaded singles for the song. Is that per song or per album?
I personally don't, some people do though. Although if you're going to remove it i'd wait a while to be safe, and not do it immediately for the next waterfall.
I suppose a question everyone will be asking is when you have reached the final product (EP, Album) do you eventually delete your previous releases? I see the stream count is carried over each time but does the playlist saves carry over also if you delete the previous?
Unfortunately thats just how it works with DistroKid. If you're mostly doing cover songs I would switch to another distributor, DistroKid is awesome but for cover songs they're quite expensive honestly.
Canvas automatically comes over, but i'm not sure about the lyrics! I'd just try it out, see if the new one doesn't have synced lyrics and then add them if it doesn't.
How would you go about promoting a song like Jaded to then funnel the streams into Cellar Door? If I were to get promotional playlisting via Spotify & other services, wouldn’t the single Jaded be the only song on the playlist?
in the case you showed with release 3, what will the tracklist be on spotify? release 3 never again and again or release 3 again and again never ? Thankyou
Hey Andrew thanks for the informative Video! 1 Question: Are waterfall releases eligible for the Spotify Countdown Pages? As far as I understand only Albums/EPs can be used to create a CDP. A waterfall Release is classified as a EP as far as I understand so is it eligible for that?
One thing I've noted though is that each release (even with the same codes and such) has a unique popularity score; they don't combine. There could be an argument made that it waters down the score if people can listen to the same track multiple places
whoa, thats a really big deal. dw and rr algorithms are supposedly correlated with popularity score. this could absolutely destroy your chances of getting on algorithmic playlists. andrew can you please investigate/address this? might require an entire video tbh
I dont really understand what you are saying. You only have one popularity score per song, no matter how many times you release it, there's only one score for that one song, how can it be diluted
@@Darknives that’s correct, popularity score is per track. this is a bit confusing honestly. it seems that OP is saying that each EP has its own popularity score?
@@bryanmarin955so I’ve released an EP where all the songs where singles, and on musicstax and tunebat and all that, it shows two separate songs with different popularity scores. But the songs still did well interestingly enough. So maybe it says it’s separate but it’s really just one score?
Andrew!!! If I re-release my song with the waterfall method and it keeps all the streams and saves etc. will it also keep the same popularity index score?
Yeah it seems like they will detect the audio as well, likely to avoid people re-releasing the same songs over and over again to be considered 'new' by the algorithm.
How would you navigate a waterfall release but each single has multiple versions (sped up, slowed down, etc.) Would the album/ep waterfall just include the main versions of the songs? Should I release two separate eps? One album with the single and its version variations and one album with the main tracks that I’m water falling into an album?
You mentioned at 4:21 a waterfall release can be cleaned up later, which is something I’d be very interested to learn. May I ask how that can be achieved? I know it’s petty, but I just can’t deal with the waterfall release - the overlap kills me, it’s so messy!
With my 6 song EP I released, once the full EP is released and everything has worked as you described, can I go ahead and delete the five prior waterfalls and just leave the full EP?
How will this affect the album art of the release on the charts? I think as far as spiritbox goes, it changed all their songs to the "Blue" album artwork once the album dropped. Do you have to delete the old releases for all of them to have the album artwork as opposed to their old, "Singles" artwork?
The way it works is singles and EP's don't override the artwork on the popular songs section. However an album will override the artwork on the popular songs section. All the original tracks and releases will maintain their original artwork on the discography page no matter what though, this is just for the popular songs list. Spiritbox actually kept their waterfalls for like a year or so after the album came out. Eventually they went back and removed most of them.
If the re release has a new different Spotify link i don't think it's good for triggering the algorithms for that song, it will be the same song in spotify for artist but the re release will probably have a new spotify link, so basicly 2 different links for the same song
DistroKid sucks for cover song waterfall releases. Their recurring cover song licensing fees suck and you have to pay again every time you reupload it. DistroKid sucks in general for cover songs but that's another story. It is great for originals and original waterfall releases though.
I was thinking this same thing. I would have done a waterfall release on my last EP but it’s 4 cover songs. So at $12/song that would have gotten expensive real quick.
Honestly I wouldn’t use distrokid for cover songs. It’s just too expensive. If you’re not doing digital downloads you don’t even need to buy a cover license, but if you are it’s much cheaper to buy that license yourself.
@@AndrewSouthworth For sure. Just wanted to throw that out there incase anyone was using DistroKid for cover songs and watching this video. What do you mean exactly when you do not need a license if you do not do downloads? I always thought you needed one anyways so the distributors could help the original composer collect royalties. Curious if there is a better option you are aware of. I usually use Soundrop for cover songs, because the 99 cent non renewable license is great, and the 15% royalties Soundrop collects is performance based and usually always less than DistroKids renewable $12 per year per song licenses. However, DistroKid can become more profitable if your catalog gets enough streams to make $12
@@AndrewSouthworth ah, i didn't know i could circumvent the license by just not allowing downloads. just found out about LANDR and how they do cover songs with no downloads. been using Soundrop because the 15% commission is less than DistroKids $12/year. any similar distributors you could reccommend?
I must be too old, for me the waterfall release approach was just a few singles leading to an EP or an album. I understand how this newer version of the waterfall strategy will work better specifically on Spotify but it also makes your music catalog look spammy.
Exactly. I love Andrew but I don’t get why he says you’re wasting your time if you care about your discography page. It saves time if you clean it up for you and for your listeners who might be scrolling through it. I don’t think it’s “only the most die-hard fans” who check it out, I should think anyone would check it out who is even remotely interested in your music.
Personally I don't think it looks much different than releasing singles, the only difference is there are multiple tracks on the releases instead of 1. Definitely not required to do a waterfall release though, it's just about maximizing your results. I know a lot of people that skip doing waterfalling releases. But they do so knowing they are giving up free streams and saves.
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can you talk about sync licensing in 2024, and sites that you can use to get sync licensing deal?
Great informative advice bro you always giving helpful tips to artists who are trying to catapult their music.
Thanks dude!
I care a lot about my discography page. It’s a birdseye view of all my works. I use it like a musical resume, it’s one of the 3 main links I use to refer people to my music.
When I check out a new artist I’ll play a few of their most popular songs, and when I find one I really like I pull up the artist’s discography page to find that album and play the song in context with the other music on the release it’s from. I’ve assumed this isn’t something that only a “die hard” fan does, but it’s what anyone does who is even remotely a fan… or even someone who is just mildly interested.
Thanks!
Thanks Andrew! I saved this video to a special Playlist. 🎸
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed and thanks for the support!
I just decided to investigate waterfall releases for my next upload, and this video has only just come out! Great explanation as usual.
I tried a waterfall release and my monthly listeners significantly dropped. I was getting good traction on a song algorithmically, and decided to re-release it with a new song, then set meta ads to the new release. What I didn’t realise is the ‘popularity’ metric is reset for this new version of the original song. I’m not sure why but the new song never really took off and my monthly listeners dropped by half. Anyone experienced something similar?
Sounds like you released the song as a new version and not as Andrew showed using the same metadata.
@@master.heartless I used the same ISRC and the plays counted up the same
+1 the services that I use for tracking the Popularity Score shows two different songs even when the ISRC codes are the same, so with each new release of the song it looks to me that you are dividing the possibilities of getting a good score
@@Hubert_Eddy_Official were the audio files also the same?
@andrewsouthworth would be great to get your thoughts on this - definitely putting me off giving this a try
So glad I watched this video, thank you!!!
thankyou for this video! IT is so clear!
One question, what if you do 1 or 2 singles, and then after the full EP with like 4 or 5 tracks (including the singles) ? You just upload multible new tracks in the same time ?
Perfect explanation thanks!
Great video, thanks! Could you make more content about mid- and bottom-funnel marketing, like collecting emails and selling tickets or merch through email campaigns? It would be helpful to know about key metrics, such as what a good CPC is for collecting emails and what you can expect in return.
Also, how many listeners in a city do you need before it makes sense to play a show for around 100 people? Streams are top-of-funnel and don't generate much revenue, so learning more about things like ticket sales, email marketing, and merch sales-which actually make money-would be really useful.
Sorry if this was already answered but I was trying to find this out a while ago and couldnt find any consistent evidence anywhere!! ... If you have both single version of a song and the Waterfalled/E.P. version of the song, once you delete the single version does it get removed from all the playlists it is in? I really wanna clean up my spotify but I don't want it getting removed from playlists.
Good question 👍
not sure if this applies the same but I re-released a song using the same isrc code and it seems to have been removed off playlists from before
@@1NoDoze Same Song? Same Length? Exactly the same? Should not be removed.
@@1NoDoze Yeah this is my worry, this is exactly what I need to not happen :/ Guess my Spotify stays messy then..? Is there ANY solution? @AndrewSouthworth
@@FrozenPlasmaOfficial_YT yep same song. I can't see those playlists in my Spotify for artists
Bro, you’re GOLD🙌🏻
Thank you!
Thanks I searched for that🙏🏽 when will it turn into an EP? Because with 2 songs it is still called a single right? Or can I manually decide if its a single, EP or Album?
Technically on Spotify 1-3 songs is a single, 4-6 is an EP and starting at 7 and up it's an album. However, if its under 7 songs but has 30 minutes of material it will be an album.
A bit thanks !!
Has anyone tried this? I want to know will you pay more if you release multiple songs that are already out with your new release for instance will I be paying for just the new song and the other songs that are already out are free or do I pay for every song on the current release
It depends on your distributor. For DistroKid you don't pay per release, you pay annually for unlimited music distribution. For CDBaby, yes you would pay more for every release even if the songs are already out on other releases.
Thanks bro this was very helpful, I just uploaded my second single and made it a waterfall release!
Really great idea and strategy.
Andrew! Why are artists running ads on their instagram audios rather than their landing pages?
Wow its like you read my mind, I filmed a video on this last week and it's going live some time this month lol.
Basically, they're trying to get more people to use their song in their reels. In the video I filmed I show how i'd run that type of campaign.
Thank you so so much! I learned a lot !! Ur the best
i upload on distro from my phone and there’s no option to choose the same code. as long as i pick the same audio file of the song that’s already out, will streaming services realize im re-releasing a song/songs?
Go to your local library, go to a hotel and ask to use their business center, if there is a computer at your job upload it on your lunch break or before you clock in
And no, it will notice that you are using the same audio as another track which may cause issues, but it won’t link the tracks metadata like it needs to in order for it to even be worth doing
I would just do this on a computer, however you need to. If you re-use the audio Spotify and other DSPs will 'probably' figure it out, but imo it isn't worth the risk. As someone else said, try doing it at work or go to a library / hotel, or ask a friend to use theirs if you don't have a computer.
@@AndrewSouthworth interesting. because i’ve just re-uploaded the same audio, and song title and Spotify automatically adds the streams i already had on that song.
very interesting thank you dude as always!
When uploading music, do you recommend adding the Extras options? Its kind of weird that after you paid for their service, there's a Social Media Pack and other stuff that would cost a lot to do if you uploaded singles for the song. Is that per song or per album?
I’ve never once paid for any of the extras, so I wouldn’t recommend them. If you need that stuff I’d use another distro.
@@AndrewSouthworth That's good to know. I was just curious about the Social Media Pack. It was confusing to me is all. Thanks!
Forrest Frank did this and it went well!!!
Marketing UA-cam through meta adds worth it in 2024?
Do you actually remove the old single when you upload it the next time?
I personally don't, some people do though. Although if you're going to remove it i'd wait a while to be safe, and not do it immediately for the next waterfall.
@@AndrewSouthworth perfect, thanks for the reply!
I suppose a question everyone will be asking is when you have reached the final product (EP, Album) do you eventually delete your previous releases? I see the stream count is carried over each time but does the playlist saves carry over also if you delete the previous?
Do you know how to do a waterfall release for a cover song without paying the cover license a second time ? Thanks fro your videos!
Unfortunately thats just how it works with DistroKid. If you're mostly doing cover songs I would switch to another distributor, DistroKid is awesome but for cover songs they're quite expensive honestly.
Can you change the mix a little?
Usually you can get away with it, but officially no I believe.
How about synced lyrics & canvas? Need to upload them again for re-released songs?
Good question. Just commenting to follow if this gets answered 😁
Canvas automatically comes over, but i'm not sure about the lyrics! I'd just try it out, see if the new one doesn't have synced lyrics and then add them if it doesn't.
@@AndrewSouthworth Thanks
What about a playlist instead of a WFR or can you do both ?
How would you go about promoting a song like Jaded to then funnel the streams into Cellar Door? If I were to get promotional playlisting via Spotify & other services, wouldn’t the single Jaded be the only song on the playlist?
in the case you showed with release 3, what will the tracklist be on spotify?
release 3
never
again and again
or
release 3
again and again
never
?
Thankyou
Hey Andrew thanks for the informative Video! 1 Question: Are waterfall releases eligible for the Spotify Countdown Pages? As far as I understand only Albums/EPs can be used to create a CDP. A waterfall Release is classified as a EP as far as I understand so is it eligible for that?
As long as your waterfall release is an album or EP, then yes. Basically, if it has more 4 songs and up you can use countdown pages for that release.
Can u clarify what we do with the upc?
Nothing. Just let your distributor assign a new UPC code. Every release will have a new UPC, but for re-released songs you'll use the same ISRC codes.
@@AndrewSouthworth thanks dude
One thing I've noted though is that each release (even with the same codes and such) has a unique popularity score; they don't combine. There could be an argument made that it waters down the score if people can listen to the same track multiple places
Wondering this too
whoa, thats a really big deal. dw and rr algorithms are supposedly correlated with popularity score. this could absolutely destroy your chances of getting on algorithmic playlists. andrew can you please investigate/address this? might require an entire video tbh
I dont really understand what you are saying. You only have one popularity score per song, no matter how many times you release it, there's only one score for that one song, how can it be diluted
@@Darknives that’s correct, popularity score is per track. this is a bit confusing honestly. it seems that OP is saying that each EP has its own popularity score?
@@bryanmarin955so I’ve released an EP where all the songs where singles, and on musicstax and tunebat and all that, it shows two separate songs with different popularity scores. But the songs still did well interestingly enough. So maybe it says it’s separate but it’s really just one score?
Andrew!!! If I re-release my song with the waterfall method and it keeps all the streams and saves etc. will it also keep the same popularity index score?
I'm totally going to start doing this LOL.
Hey, on me it worked without the ISRC Code but i think youre more safe to put it manually.
Yeah it seems like they will detect the audio as well, likely to avoid people re-releasing the same songs over and over again to be considered 'new' by the algorithm.
How would you navigate a waterfall release but each single has multiple versions (sped up, slowed down, etc.)
Would the album/ep waterfall just include the main versions of the songs?
Should I release two separate eps? One album with the single and its version variations and one album with the main tracks that I’m water falling into an album?
You mentioned at 4:21 a waterfall release can be cleaned up later, which is something I’d be very interested to learn.
May I ask how that can be achieved?
I know it’s petty, but I just can’t deal with the waterfall release - the overlap kills me, it’s so messy!
With my 6 song EP I released, once the full EP is released and everything has worked as you described, can I go ahead and delete the five prior waterfalls and just leave the full EP?
How will this affect the album art of the release on the charts? I think as far as spiritbox goes, it changed all their songs to the "Blue" album artwork once the album dropped. Do you have to delete the old releases for all of them to have the album artwork as opposed to their old, "Singles" artwork?
The way it works is singles and EP's don't override the artwork on the popular songs section. However an album will override the artwork on the popular songs section. All the original tracks and releases will maintain their original artwork on the discography page no matter what though, this is just for the popular songs list.
Spiritbox actually kept their waterfalls for like a year or so after the album came out. Eventually they went back and removed most of them.
how does dirtokid tell when you're doing an "album" as a single waterfall vs an "album" as an EP/Album is my biggest question
The example you have about ABCDEFU - would her new clean versions / remixes have the same ISRC / UPC codes as the original?
Every version would have its own ISRC code, and each release would also have it's own unique UPC code.
If the re release has a new different Spotify link i don't think it's good for triggering the algorithms for that song, it will be the same song in spotify for artist but the re release will probably have a new spotify link, so basicly 2 different links for the same song
For the re releases all the stats are linked. So they share stream counts, saves etc. That’s why we reuse the Isrc code and song name and audio file.
DistroKid sucks for cover song waterfall releases. Their recurring cover song licensing fees suck and you have to pay again every time you reupload it. DistroKid sucks in general for cover songs but that's another story. It is great for originals and original waterfall releases though.
I was thinking this same thing. I would have done a waterfall release on my last EP but it’s 4 cover songs. So at $12/song that would have gotten expensive real quick.
Honestly I wouldn’t use distrokid for cover songs. It’s just too expensive. If you’re not doing digital downloads you don’t even need to buy a cover license, but if you are it’s much cheaper to buy that license yourself.
@@AndrewSouthworth where do you recommend purchasing cover licenses?
@@AndrewSouthworth For sure. Just wanted to throw that out there incase anyone was using DistroKid for cover songs and watching this video.
What do you mean exactly when you do not need a license if you do not do downloads? I always thought you needed one anyways so the distributors could help the original composer collect royalties. Curious if there is a better option you are aware of.
I usually use Soundrop for cover songs, because the 99 cent non renewable license is great, and the 15% royalties Soundrop collects is performance based and usually always less than DistroKids renewable $12 per year per song licenses. However, DistroKid can become more profitable if your catalog gets enough streams to make $12
@@AndrewSouthworth ah, i didn't know i could circumvent the license by just not allowing downloads. just found out about LANDR and how they do cover songs with no downloads. been using Soundrop because the 15% commission is less than DistroKids $12/year. any similar distributors you could reccommend?
I must be too old, for me the waterfall release approach was just a few singles leading to an EP or an album. I understand how this newer version of the waterfall strategy will work better specifically on Spotify but it also makes your music catalog look spammy.
Exactly. I love Andrew but I don’t get why he says you’re wasting your time if you care about your discography page. It saves time if you clean it up for you and for your listeners who might be scrolling through it. I don’t think it’s “only the most die-hard fans” who check it out, I should think anyone would check it out who is even remotely interested in your music.
Agree
Personally I don't think it looks much different than releasing singles, the only difference is there are multiple tracks on the releases instead of 1. Definitely not required to do a waterfall release though, it's just about maximizing your results.
I know a lot of people that skip doing waterfalling releases. But they do so knowing they are giving up free streams and saves.
@@AndrewSouthworth yes, you are right visually they look the same on the discography pages but I would still feel like a spammer doing it.
Why can’t we just have one release and keep adding songs to it and building on it that way? Like episodic TV shows .. one season = 1 album
Thanks!
Thank you!!