18 years ago I bought ECM Giotto and it looks almost identical to the one in this video. The very first time I used it I must have made 10 cappuccinos and just as many espressos.The machine worked great and it never cooled down. I still have the same machine and I use on average at least once a week if not more. From my experience the machine is well made and a lot of fun.
I have the Rocket and although I love using it, I would probably consider the ECM, as the drip tray seems to be a batter design. On the ECM it comes forward an extra inch. When cleaning the Rocket it is easy to get water under the machine. In fact I now have a soup bowl under while cleaning the head. It may seem like a small thing, but I think that is important.
if memory serves, giotto has displayed PID control panel hidden in the drip tray that allow users to adjust the brew temp which ECM technika doesn't have.
Hi XA, Correct. Most recent Rocket Giotto (available in Type V with vibration pump and EVO R model with rotary pump) has PID behind the drip tray. ECM Technika is a rotary pump HX machine with pressurestat temp control so no PID.
Hi Marc, what would I be missing if I went with the ECM Technika V Profi PID instead of the Profitec 700? I like the look of the ECM most that is why I ask.
Hi yh, Thanks for the question. Most obvious difference... the Technika is an HX machine and Pro 700 is a dual boiler. With the dual boiler youo can run a higher pressure in the steam boiler without affecting brewing temps. If you like ECM looks - they are more refined as far as casework than Profitec machines, The ECM Synchronika is the same as the Pro 700 internally. Both the Pro 700 and the ECM Synchronika are available with the E61 group Flow Control upgrade pre-installed: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control Hope that helps! Marc
You mentioned that the ECM has a stainless steel boiler and the Rocket has a copper boiler but not really what the differences between those are. Are there any advantages of any one of them over the other? :)
+Tanax13 Our techs who work on prosumer machines everyday have a slight preference for the stainless boilers. They believe they are slightly less prone to scaling. Beyond that, it's a user preference. Some prefer the traditional aspect of a copper boiler.
Hi Evan, Thanks for the question. No, cannot brew and steam simultaneously using a single boiler machine. Need machine with heat-exchange boiler or dual boilers for that. Marc
Hi KP, The ECM has a slightly larger boiler and higher wattage heating element than the Rocket so likely has slightly more steam reserve. Here a link to side by side spec comparison: www.wholelattelove.com/product_comparisons/show?products%5B%5D=ecm-technika-iv-profi-switchable-espresso-machine&products%5B%5D=rocket-espresso-giotto-evoluzione-v2
I would have like to see the brew pressure gauges when you pulled the shots... you commented about "a bit fast", but the pressure would have been helpful. And you did not talk about the pressure adjustments screw on the ECM. I do not know about the Rocket.
Hi Andre, Thanks for your comment. All these machines have a way of adjusting brew pressure via screw on an OPV or rotary pump bypass. Sorry we did not show gauge while pulling shots.
I know that. In the review you told us everything about the machines except the important bit: the brew group. So, when you ask Mark, "what did we miss", you missed the brew group. Watch it again :)
Hi PP, Thanks for clarifying. Didn't quite get your "we". But here's a bunch more info on E61s... So the E61 is fairly standard on this level of machine. We try to keep videos reasonable in length and in comparisons we focus on the differences. But... You want to know more about the E61! So here's a link to a video in which we look deep inside a cutaway E61 brew group. You'll get to see every part and a thourough explanation of E61 operation: ua-cam.com/video/5igXx83J_Iw/v-deo.htmlm57s I should also mention a couple of subtle differences in some E61s. In some machines the seals that shut off flow are a little different in quality. We have noticed what in our opinion is a slightly lower quality seal in the E61s used on Rocket machines. It does not affect brewing in any way. But it might be more likely to not fully close at some point. Also Expobar machines have a little extra machining above the shower screen of their E61 groups. This creates a chamber that allows for more brew water to be released onto the coffee during pre-infusion before the pump kicks on and the machine continues to full brewing pressure. You can have a look at it in this video: ua-cam.com/video/lh_uE2wK2EI/v-deo.htmlm3s
The drip tray on the Rocket is smaller and needs constant emptying also the position of the spouts is above the front of the drip tray which can lead to mess when cleaning and using scales. So I think the ECM wins on that front but for everything else they are close
Hi David, Thanks for the question. This is an older video and there are now updated version of these machines. In general most machines which are plumbable direct to waterline and have rotary pumps are setup to accept/use a permanent drainline. Most of the driptrays are pre-drilled for drainange. Marc
So if you had to choose between Rocket Giotto Evoluzione R Rotary Pump Espresso Coffee Machine with Shot Timer & ECM Heidelberg Technika V Profi PID WT-WC. Which one would you suggest?
Hi T, thanks for the question. Personally I prefer the internal and external buile quality opf the Profitec machines. Some are okay with sacrificing that for a little more "flair" in the looks dept. Marc
Hi We need to see the differences between Technika IV and V and what about the cool flushing ! Does the V need cool flush? Does the PID fixed in both steamer and brewing if we use them at the same time ? or while using brewing and steaming at the same time the brew temperature will effect on steaming temperature!
Hi Boggero, Personally I prefer the ECM Technika. The machines are very similar spec wise but I find the ECM's finish quality and internal design more appealing. The Technika's reservoir is 100oz. vs. 95oz for the Rocket.
I love more the ECM Technika. But I have no shop, not am I professional. But just a hobbyist. Just because I have the financial ability to get it, then I'll have to keep it open all the time, or there's no problem opening it up anytime. And if so. How long does it take more or less for her, so to start making coffee without a problem.
Hi OK, I might be missing some meaning in the translation? Sounds like you are asking if you need to keep the machine turned on all the time? If so, no you do not. For best results you do want the machine fully warmed up. So turn on about 20 minutes prior to use. Marc
Personally, I prefer the aesthetics of the ECM with the exception of their logo plate on the front. Coming from a graphic design background, I find their logotype to be rather pedestrian and cheap looking. Surely, if this is a successful company, they can afford to hire a type designer who can design an attractive custom logotype with some attitude to give their branding a major facelift, especially since it's such a prominent and visible design element.
A lot of traditional german companys tend to keep their old pogos, mostly kept from 60s 70s 80s. Has to do with family ownership sometimes and the idea of communicating the tradition of the firm other times.
18 years ago I bought ECM Giotto and it looks almost identical to the one in this video. The very first time I used it I must have made 10 cappuccinos and just as many espressos.The machine worked great and it never cooled down. I still have the same machine and I use on average at least once a week if not more. From my experience the machine is well made and a lot of fun.
Hi Joe, Thank you so much for sharing your experience with the Giotto!
Question for Todd - Can you comment on durability, reliability, and ease of maintenance of ECM lever vs ECM rotating knobs? Thanks!
I have the Rocket and although I love using it, I would probably consider the ECM, as the drip tray seems to be a batter design.
On the ECM it comes forward an extra inch.
When cleaning the Rocket it is easy to get water under the machine.
In fact I now have a soup bowl under while cleaning the head.
It may seem like a small thing, but I think that is important.
Hi Ian, Thanks a bunch for sharing your opinion!
Marc
if memory serves, giotto has displayed PID control panel hidden in the drip tray that allow users to adjust the brew temp which ECM technika doesn't have.
Hi XA, Correct. Most recent Rocket Giotto (available in Type V with vibration pump and EVO R model with rotary pump) has PID behind the drip tray. ECM Technika is a rotary pump HX machine with pressurestat temp control so no PID.
The joystick valves on the Technika's are so cool. This is hands-down the reason why I'm planning to invest in the ECM.
Hi Marc, what would I be missing if I went with the ECM Technika V Profi PID instead of the Profitec 700? I like the look of the ECM most that is why I ask.
Hi yh, Thanks for the question. Most obvious difference... the Technika is an HX machine and Pro 700 is a dual boiler. With the dual boiler youo can run a higher pressure in the steam boiler without affecting brewing temps. If you like ECM looks - they are more refined as far as casework than Profitec machines, The ECM Synchronika is the same as the Pro 700 internally. Both the Pro 700 and the ECM Synchronika are available with the E61 group Flow Control upgrade pre-installed: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control
Hope that helps!
Marc
Thank you Marc.
You mentioned that the ECM has a stainless steel boiler and the Rocket has a copper boiler but not really what the differences between those are. Are there any advantages of any one of them over the other? :)
+Tanax13 Our techs who work on prosumer machines everyday have a slight preference for the stainless boilers. They believe they are slightly less prone to scaling. Beyond that, it's a user preference. Some prefer the traditional aspect of a copper boiler.
With single boilers you can still steam and brew at the same time?
Thanks
Hi Evan, Thanks for the question. No, cannot brew and steam simultaneously using a single boiler machine. Need machine with heat-exchange boiler or dual boilers for that.
Marc
hi one question please.who have better steam pressure ECM machine or rocket machine ?
Hi KP, The ECM has a slightly larger boiler and higher wattage heating element than the Rocket so likely has slightly more steam reserve. Here a link to side by side spec comparison: www.wholelattelove.com/product_comparisons/show?products%5B%5D=ecm-technika-iv-profi-switchable-espresso-machine&products%5B%5D=rocket-espresso-giotto-evoluzione-v2
I would have like to see the brew pressure gauges when you pulled the shots... you commented about "a bit fast", but the pressure would have been helpful. And you did not talk about the pressure adjustments screw on the ECM. I do not know about the Rocket.
Hi Andre, Thanks for your comment. All these machines have a way of adjusting brew pressure via screw on an OPV or rotary pump bypass. Sorry we did not show gauge while pulling shots.
So Mark,what did we miss?
What about the brewing heads?
Hi PP, Not sure exactly what you are asking. Both machines use the E61 brew group.
I know that. In the review you told us everything about the machines except the important bit: the brew group. So, when you ask Mark, "what did we miss", you missed the brew group. Watch it again :)
Hi PP, Thanks for clarifying. Didn't quite get your "we". But here's a bunch more info on E61s...
So the E61 is fairly standard on this level of machine. We try to keep videos reasonable in length and in comparisons we focus on the differences. But... You want to know more about the E61! So here's a link to a video in which we look deep inside a cutaway E61 brew group. You'll get to see every part and a thourough explanation of E61 operation: ua-cam.com/video/5igXx83J_Iw/v-deo.htmlm57s
I should also mention a couple of subtle differences in some E61s. In some machines the seals that shut off flow are a little different in quality. We have noticed what in our opinion is a slightly lower quality seal in the E61s used on Rocket machines. It does not affect brewing in any way. But it might be more likely to not fully close at some point. Also Expobar machines have a little extra machining above the shower screen of their E61 groups. This creates a chamber that allows for more brew water to be released onto the coffee during pre-infusion before the pump kicks on and the machine continues to full brewing pressure. You can have a look at it in this video: ua-cam.com/video/lh_uE2wK2EI/v-deo.htmlm3s
The drip tray on the Rocket is smaller and needs constant emptying also the position of the spouts is above the front of the drip tray which can lead to mess when cleaning and using scales. So I think the ECM wins on that front but for everything else they are close
Hi John, Thanks for your comment!
Marc
Is it possible to "hardwire" a drain line on these drip trays? Has anyone had a go a doing that?
Hi David, Thanks for the question. This is an older video and there are now updated version of these machines. In general most machines which are plumbable direct to waterline and have rotary pumps are setup to accept/use a permanent drainline. Most of the driptrays are pre-drilled for drainange.
Marc
So if you had to choose between Rocket Giotto Evoluzione R Rotary Pump Espresso Coffee Machine with Shot Timer & ECM Heidelberg Technika V Profi PID WT-WC. Which one would you suggest?
Hi T, thanks for the question. Personally I prefer the internal and external buile quality opf the Profitec machines. Some are okay with sacrificing that for a little more "flair" in the looks dept.
Marc
Hi
We need to see the differences between Technika IV and V and what about the cool flushing ! Does the V need cool flush?
Does the PID fixed in both steamer and brewing if we use them at the same time ? or while using brewing and steaming at the same time the brew temperature will effect on steaming temperature!
Hi TH, The Technika V adds PID. In our testing a cooling flush is not required.
Marc
Whole Latte Love thanks a lot Mark.
Does the heat of extraction will affect on the heat of steaming if I use brewing and steaming in the same time ?.
which one would you recommend? and which has a bigger water tank?
Hi Boggero, Personally I prefer the ECM Technika. The machines are very similar spec wise but I find the ECM's finish quality and internal design more appealing. The Technika's reservoir is 100oz. vs. 95oz for the Rocket.
I love more the ECM Technika. But I have no shop, not am I professional. But just a hobbyist. Just because I have the financial ability to get it, then I'll have to keep it open all the time, or there's no problem opening it up anytime. And if so. How long does it take more or less for her, so to start making coffee without a problem.
Hi OK, I might be missing some meaning in the translation? Sounds like you are asking if you need to keep the machine turned on all the time? If so, no you do not. For best results you do want the machine fully warmed up. So turn on about 20 minutes prior to use.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage ,thank you a lot...
Which one is better overall (contruction and materials)? Copper vs steel boiler, which is better?
I read both have different benefits
ECM is better
The shot on the ECM at first drop only took 13 seconds
Lol, guess we were not dialed in very well!
Personally, I prefer the aesthetics of the ECM with the exception of their logo plate on the front. Coming from a graphic design background, I find their logotype to be rather pedestrian and cheap looking. Surely, if this is a successful company, they can afford to hire a type designer who can design an attractive custom logotype with some attitude to give their branding a major facelift, especially since it's such a prominent and visible design element.
A lot of traditional german companys tend to keep their old pogos, mostly kept from 60s 70s 80s. Has to do with family ownership sometimes and the idea of communicating the tradition of the firm other times.
German is German 😁