This is very consistent with the Relativity ep.... Seven of Nine was limited in how many times she could go back in forth.. All the things Braxton and Seven faced.... That was most likely some very hard earned wisdom.....
TOS: All Our Yesterdays, also covered this. Those people fleeing into their own world's past to escape it's end had to undergo special "preparation" in order to live permanently in the past. Most other time travelers usually return to their own time sooner or later. Apparently, the Federation could mitigate the problem, but not protect against it entirely. This may be why Spock died at such a young age for a Vulcan. He traveled across to the Kelvin timeline and backward from the late-24th to the late-23rd century.
It was also covered in TNG "Parallels" where Worf's quantum resonance did not match that of the dimensions he was travelling through. You had both elements of time and spatial displacement addressed. Apparently, the writing staff has brought their A game to Season 3.
@@frankz5103 Hypothetically, his lifespan should have been longer. His genetic make up was carefully selected when Amanda and Sarek donated genetic material, and he was implanted in vitro. "Hybrid vigor" is what it was called. He was actually smarter, on average, than most Vulcans, and stronger. His dyslexia added in STD was the first negative trait his mixed physiology ever mentioned.
True, since Spock arrived _after_ the Kelvin Timeline was created so he would have had to cross both time and dimensions to get there, whereas Nero and his crew would've only travelled back in time since they were the reason for its creation. His Half Human side might've lowerd his life expectancy even further, meaning if he were full Vulcan he probably would've lived a few more years until the whole Time Molocules thing happened
So....does this mean that Carl actually hangs out on that planet, and has since whenever the Sphere studied it? Or did he somehow insert himself into the data in order to arrange for Discovery to bring Georgiou to a suitably enigmatic location for his little performance?
@@daniels7907 no, when they combined the sphere data with data from the 23rd century and 32nd century, the computer was able to triangulate the location
The end of that scene was an excellent bit of writing & acting. He wasn't certain because he needed to be, but because he genuinely knew he was right. And presented with a credible dissent, he's eager to hear it out.
The capacity to accept new evidence that overrules previously defined theory is the mark of an intelligent mind. There are no hills to die on, only new horizons to discover.
I doubt it would have any clue since it only knew of a possible cure because the sphere data allowed it to know how to search for the Guardian of Forever and it was able to use 32nd century scanners to look for it. The sphere data wouldn’t have any records on what happened between Discovery leaving the 23rd century and arriving in the 32nd century beyond whatever data Starfleet memory banks contained (which apparently wasn’t much), so until it had more data on what happened, the best it could do was speculate. I mean, how many times could, “screaming child exposed to dilithium radiation getting upset and making everything go boom” have possibly happened
Considering Yor there is from(presumably) the Kelvin timeline it almost seems to have self corrected(at least aesthetically), sort of the opposite of the mirror's drift. Granted things are still a little off, thats an Early Next Gen uniform(2350s/60s) while Yor is from the late 2370s. Though uniforms are a little messy in the back half of the 2300s anyway, maybe his boat never got the upgrade before he joined the temporal war. I'm actually a little bummed by that, i really wanted to see a comic or something of a Kelvin Timeline version of The Next Generation era.
I guess you write off the romulans from the time/dimension rift thing because it wasn't an alternate reality until after they destroyed the Kelvin. Butterfly effect and such. Spock on the other hand, showed up later and may have ultimately died from this illness, but was at such an advanced age by that point it may have been missed.
I loved this episode, this problem and how it turned out. however it occurs to me with the line "not without breaking the interdimensional displacement restriction" ... It would be interesting to see an alternate storyline where they basically "kirk it" and find the cotraban starfleet time ships and steal one... I guess the solution they came up with did sorta do this, just not as dramatic as stealing a timeship
So to clear this up. The time soldier is from the Kelvin universe and Discovery is intended to be from the Prime Universe. Ignore the visual discrepancies as shows made now will naturally look better anyway no matter where on the timeline they are supposed to be.
“Look better” - And yet apparently, ST:Ent was more faithful to the visual language of its predecessors (eg Klingons & future Connie’s) than ST:Disc was. 🤔
@@UGNAvalonenterprise was made in the same larger production era as TNG, DS9, and Voyager, and therefore followed the same styles mostly because it was being worked on by a lot of the same people. Discovery birthed a new era of the franchise with many new creatives who simply had their own ideas for visual styles.
@Cdr2002 I’d say that the “new era” started in 2009 with the JJ Trek film. But even then, the design language for the Klingons & starships was much more faithful than Disc’s :/
I don’t watch Discovery so forgive me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the cure likely to be jumping into a transporter to replace your molecular pattern with molecules from your current time?
@@abdullahansari437 Years. Bones take longer to refresh. Months for most of the body. Although I'm sure you can replace natural bones entirely for some super metallo-ceramic alloy... is it 31st century or 21st?
Bruh, we do not conflate Star Trek, Stargate, and/or Star Wars together, under any circumstances. If it were to breach containment, the repercussions would be catastrophic...
I just realized I had it wrong about Yor. I guess because of the early TNG era sailor uniform, I thought he went FROM the "Prime" timeline TO the Kelvin-verse. Rewatching, I see that he was native to Kelvin and jumped forward and into Prime. My question now is- because of the timewimeyness of the very creation of the Kelvin branch, facilitating all the changes to what we knew from TOS, were they saying the Kelvin Next Genners were STILL using the sailor uniform in 2379, which in Prime Time was already the Nemesis era? And were they also saying the Time War was already happening then in that universe or were they implying Yor became a time agent after jumping to Prime somewhere between the 27th, 29th, or 31st century? Yeesh.
Wouldn't Prime Spock be similarly sick because he went back in time across dimensions. Unless the prime universe is aligned with the Kelvin universe when it was created.
The Enterprise series is considered the Prime Universe, and that would have also been the same history of the Kelvinverse. Spock went on a branch of the Prime, and away from it.
"Forward from 2379..." They prove, yet again, they do not know Trek. Even arguing that this is an Kelvin Timeline individual, his uniform EXACTLY matches a prime timeline individual (already a bit of a violation) and that universe is supposed to be MORE advanced due to the Borg technology reverse engineered from Nero's ship, thus the use of that uniform discontinued over a decade prior in the prime timeline is nonsensical.
@@Freelancer117 The technology they have has absolutely no bearing what-so-ever on designs they choose for clothing in the future. It could just be that the Kelvin counterpart of whoever proposed said design to Starfleet simply had that idea later. Or perhaps they liked the design more and chose to keep it longer, rather than phasing it out after only a few years. After all, some of today's military uniforms are well over half a century old themselves and haven't changed a bit. That doesn't mean "do not know Trek". One could argue that constantly trying to find reasons to accuse someone of "not knowing Trek" may in fact prove that person doesn't actually understand Trek either. I mean, my gods... a man some fans claim made the two best Trek films of all time apparently couldn't tell the difference between Klingon space and Romulan space.
Also, why all the flickering? TNG era holograms were incredibly realistic as soon as they rendered. Did they not upgrade sick bay when they did the rest of the ship?
@@Stranglars1 - Nah. If you could crash holograms by blinking at the right rate then Data would have figured out how to beat Moriarty within nanoseconds.
@@daniels7907 It is possible that the flickering is intentional as a user interface consideration, to clearly indicate to the user (and the audience) that what we are seeing is a hologram. Perhaps a perfect projection was just too uncanny valley for the designers. Gonna be honest though, I didn't really notice that it was flickering until you pointed it out.
@@daniels7907 Maybe it's because Georgiou's scan was incomplete? Yor's projection doesn't really flicker through out the whole clip here, and they look real, just like in TNG (and unlike the "ghosts" in early DIS)
Bruh, we do not conflate Star Trek, Stargate, and/or Star Wars together, under any circumstances. If it were to breach containment, the repercussions would be catastrophic...
Matter is neither created nor destroyed, only changed. Also, the atoms in your body are constantly replaced. Georgiou has already left her universe for more than a year, a lot of the atoms in her body have already been replaced with prime universe matter. If she's eaten food in the 31st century, she already has atoms that have been replaced with 31st century atoms.
That is true on average, but not all cells are replaced in the same timespan. Some are finite, like your neurons. And even if you could argue than some parts of these cells are exchanged on a molecular level, like transmitter or proteins. The dna in the core of neurons wouldn't be replaced by matter of the new universe, because only by splitting into new cells the dna would be duplicated. As the neurons won't duplicate the atoms in their DNA would be still from the other universe no matter how much time has passed. The more interesting argument is beaming. As we know beaming destroys the original matter pattern and creates a new version with matter/energy so beaming a person should fix the problem instantly.
And lets be clear here... not you, nor I, nor anybody living today in the 21st Century has the slightest clue how travel across time and dimensions would affect physics with regard to the person making the journey. There are certainly hypotheses of what COULD happen, but none can be tested, so none can even advance to the realm of "Theory", nor can they be fully dismissed or disproven... as, again, they cannot be tested.
Human, and presumably Terran physiology wouldn't have changed much in 900 years. Although you are right, the methods and technology associated with medicine would undoubtedly have changed.
you know we change our molecules with time right? its literally the aging process and cell cycles, some slower like brain and heart 7 and 5 years respectively, a side from energy its also teh reason we eat
@@ShadowcatAlfa OK, so how does the Star Trek time travel work? When does going back in time create a new timeline/dimension and when does it change the existing timeline?
@@kume1985 Unknown afaik. Star Trek has showed all forms of time travel: Temporal loops, self-fulfilling time travel, timeline alterations and timeline creations.
@@kume1985 If JJ does it - an alternate universe. If classic star trek does time travel - the original timeline get overwritten. If I type any more I'll have put more thought into than JJ did.
an incursion that created an alternate reality. There is precedent for this in pre-2009 Star Trek. Also, the unspecified properties of "red matter" could have caused more than simply a temporal incursion, but a break in the fabric of reality itself. It doesn't take much Treknobabble at all to make that work.
I think that while Tasha Yar does fit the same criteria she was sent back to before the point that the Universes (Prime and Klingon War) diverged so it was essentially just time travel for her. Had she travelled to a point after the Universes diverged (let's say brought back to the point where Prime Tasha died) she would have suffered the same interdimensional time break.
Different methods of time travel. The Kelvin timeline was formed by Relativistic time travel across an event horizon. Yesterday's Enterprise was a "rip in spacetime," which I guess just changes the timeline you're in. So I think from a temporal mechanics perspective it was just time travel, she was from the same universe in a different temporal arrangement.
Judging by the guy's uniform and date (around when the TNG movies take place), kinda wonder if this is a sneaky way of getting a Kelvin universe TNG era show off the ground.
It actually followed canon just fine, when you take canon to mean what it is supposed to - who did what, where, when, how, and why You know, rather than only thinking canon means the way things look.
Why are there windows on starships and buildings? Glass still exists. And even if its transparent aluminum instead of glass, so too could be the glasses. And as we saw in Trek of days past, Kirk used glasses because he was allergic to the common treatment.
@@josephbryant8799 forgive me but rewatch the clip, it's clearly states that the "time soldier" in the TNG uniform, travel both forward time and across from a different dimensions! He is not from the same dimension as discovery. That why he was dying and this starfleer euthanized him!! Ergo, STD is set in a different dimension to TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. So like the terrible JJ movies, I can complete remove STD from my star trek head canon! As they are all set in the same terribly written universe populated by stupid, hopeless, childish, characters
@@kevesdancey How? it clearly states he came from the alternate timeline that was created by the mining ship. If he came from the timeline that Vulcan was destroyed in, then he must be in the same timeline as ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and PIC, in which Romulus was destroyed by a supernova.
@@josephbryant8799 the problem is this, both STD and Picard have massive continuity problems to with TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY series. This clip resolves most of them with the acknowledgement of the kelvin universe. So it can be argued that star trek has three timelines 1st original line (golden age) ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and movies 1 to 9 2nd kelvin universe the ENT, JJ movies 1 to 3 3rd ENT, STD and Picard (cause by Nero first jumping to early point before kirk and spawning a 2nd universe different to kelvin and original) This long winded explanation, dealing with most of worst parts of the JJ movies, STD and Picard.
@@kevesdancey You're trying to fight fiction with fiction here. TOS had massive continuity problems with the other series, as they had explored most of the galaxy and even left it a couple times, but the rest of the series established only a fraction of the galaxy had been explored. The official timeline says that all the series and movies take place in a single timeline which involves the destruction of Romulus, then that in turn sprouts the Kelvin timeline. Trying to create any more universes is only useful if you are trying to separate the trek you don't like from that which you do. If you want to do that for your own head cannon then that's fine, but that doesn't mean that everyone else has to abide by the same rules. I gave up on this because if I tried to distance a certain series from the others, that leaves no room for it to get better. For example, I really didn't like Into Darkness but Beyond was really good.
a lot of people prefer The Orville than Discovery. but even not considered that many fan that love the pure sci-fi than more comedy, seeing this, imaging how much doctor can do in the future, is it not cool? they put every thing on another.. imaging level rather just making jokes and fun with it, is still good tho - no offense - the 2D universe is stunning too tbh...
The Orville is vintage TNG, warts and all. For me, the warts haven't aged well, so i prefer the new Trek stuff. Kinda takes away the enjoyment when you already know every Orville script before it gets going, if you have watched TNG a million times.
Old trek is about scifi tech yes but more so its about a bright future, disco and picard just make everything so bleak and dreary,and everyone's always crying about everything
Either transporters are sensitive enough to detect and copy whatever is in each atom that makes this happen and can therefore stop doing it. Or they are not sensitive enough to copy it and one transport should fix you.
This would require an understanding what property on a quantum level makes this happen and how exactly flip only this property. Just because you can copy something, doesn't mean you fully understand it (compare it to our current knowledge about DNA).
@@wolfbane7497 It's okay, The Prime Continuity was an invention of JJ during his Kelvin phase... Or to put it another way, The Prime copies the classic continuity of TOS -ENT, and then changes it to suit SH's needs. Thus the Prime continuity is different from Classic continuity. Case in point, 25% different ship designs, Vulcan's moon, Different uniform designs aping the original TOS when they should have been a standard Pike era gold... This gets the writers out of a big hole in needing to know Trek lore. I wouldn't be surprised if the Section 31 spinoff creates a Prime2 Continuity... if she has indeed changed the past of her mirror universe and it's not a fake out.
@@davfree9732 Yeah if JJ and Kurtzman want to claim anything prime it has to be a bad duplicate of "classic" and will be gone when the reboot gets rebooted. Though for the record Vulcan being part of a binary planet system goes back to TAS and TMP to explain the "not moons" in the Vulcan sky seen in those two scenes.
What about Alt-Tasha Yar, mother of Sela? She was from an alternate TNG present, went back in time to "correct" the timeline, and had a child with someone arguably from the main timeline's past. If she hadn't died (assuming you don't follow the STO follow up on her life), would she have risked dimensional/temporal evisceration?
the distance across time and dimension she travelled was far shorter, therefore the affects were weaker. Surely said effects could have eventually manifested and drastically shortened her life.... but she was killed anyway, so it doesn't matter.
I think the best end to Discovery would be to just declare that they are in a separate timeline and not the PRIME timeline. Maybe they think they are (and the storytellers want you to think they are), but with the Klingons in Season 1 they really forfeited that excuse a long time ago. Putting them in a separate timeline altogether means the Klingons COULD look like the junk versions they came up with and now that they are in the future it's a future of THEIR timeline. I don't think any fans really buy Discovery is part of the main timeline. The show already has too many inconsistencies to be part of the Prime, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be. They just seem to write themselves into too many corners. The Burn is just a plot device with no real explanation. How is it the Alpha Quadrant wasn't over run with Borg shortly after the Burn? Borg ships didn't base their propulsion on dilithium like everyone else. If this were the Prime timeline Discovery would have arrived to a quadrant filled with Borg cubes. I could go on but I'm already bored of my own explanation. Put Discovery in its own Timeline and let them pretend their in the prime, that's really the only way to fix the shoddy storytelling.
I get why people are upset about the Klingons, and I'm not quite fond of the design myself, but I still don't get why people are that shocked about the design change. Sure, it was kinda unnecessary, but some people act like that had never been done before, despite the Klingons' appearance having been retconned countless times.
its not pretty i agree there the borg issue is valid but most to all the beta cannon say the borg are either gone or reformed into the Co-opertive plus there is the factor of the temporial war who is to say that they were wiped out there or changed some other time between the end of Picard the most up to date point of the prime timeline and the end of that war
@@Sasha-zv2wx Do you not remember how far across the galaxy the Borg had spread and that there were hundreds, maybe thousands of cubes detached from the collective that would have survived. All Janeway did was destroy a transwarp hub the Borg used to Earth but it wasn't the only one in the galaxy. The Borg were not destroyed. They could have rebuilt. They would have been there later in Discovery. Voyager/Janeway destroyed a Transwarp hub but not all the Borg. Even a dilithium 'burn' would only slow the Borg down so they don't have to write them into the show but they would have still be out there.
I know you're comment is 2 years old and that you'll find any excuse to ignore this and reiterate your blatantly anger-fulled opinion but I'll say this anyway: The Klingons are just a visual change to match more heavy makeup techniques, just like what The Motion Picture's Klingons were until DS9 and Enterprise gave the differing Klingon designs a canon explanation. We've also seen that will Trills, first having the good old forehead ridge prosthetics in TNG's The Host which were then retconned onto the more iconic spots when Jadzia Dax was created. As for Discovery's wider visual changes, we've seen Picard Seasons 1 and 2 cherrypick between using oldtrek or nutrek designs and Season 3 confirms the original visuals are still very much in use. Worf has thankfully not been Discoveryfied and we see an original TOS Constitution Class in the Fleet Museum (front and centre in a shot I should add!). This all but confirms that NuTrek's visual changes are just for the audience and the that what we see from TOS to Enterprise is the canon visuals of Star Trek. As for the Borg, while Jurati's collective from the alternate timeline exists now in the prime universe, the original collective still exists albeit fractured. The virus Future Janeway infected them with left them in shambles. We get a glimpse of a dormant Borg Cube in Prodigy, and Picard Season 3 shows us what became of the Borg Queen. Both of these are very much the original Prime Universe. So yes, Discovery is in the Prime Universe whether you like it or not.
No, he is saying clearly that what happened actually did. Hobus blew up. The cool thing is, Kelvin is a separate universe and timeline form that point.
@@shauntempley9757 they called it the prime universe.... Wtf does any of what you said have to do with the fact the character in the show just refered to the dimension they are in based on the terminology the VIEWERS are told to use by the marketing spin team? No character in star trek has ever refered to their own dimension as the prime universe.
Human hubris. It's a simple designation for a person's own particular reality. This is "my" universe, therefore it is the "prime" universe. Someone from the Terran, or Mirror universe, who has studied multiple universes may just as easily designate their own reality as the prime universe. If nothing else, then to simple differentiate. Basically, you're over thinking it just to have something to bitch about.
Love how they just casually drop the hint that the Federation is aware of the Kelvin Timeline
"Show us." ... I do like how this dude's curiosity overrides his need to be correct.
99.9% of social media users need to learn to be like this
@@thejamesasher true.
Why wouldn't it?
Every true scientist is like that. No need for ego if you can unravel the secrets of the galaxy for yourself.
He is a real intellectual!
the temporal incursion of a romulan mining ship. i love how they incorporate the movies.
as someone who has spotty knowledge on star trek can you explain it sounded interesting
@@thechaosgamer1519 it's the 2009 star trek movie.
The nirada was originally a mining ship before being refit and having bought nano tech and weapon pylons strapped to it hense the spiky look
Time and Dimension Travel in Star Trek: "If it only fucks with your brain, consider yourself lucky"
0:15 That's David Cronenberg, the king of body horror flicks!!
Interesting nod to the Kelvin timeline.
"Temporal incursion of a Romulan Mining Ship", it was glorious : )
Was about to ask about that lol. Watched this and was like “wait a minute....”
Except his uniform is from the original non-prime, non-kelvin timeline. Nice nod to this not being the normal timeline.
@@datastorm75 discovery is in the regular timeline, whatre you on about?
Discovery was in the prime timeline in seasons 1 and 2. Are you sure it is now?
This is very consistent with the Relativity ep.... Seven of Nine was limited in how many times she could go back in forth.. All the things Braxton and Seven faced.... That was most likely some very hard earned wisdom.....
there is a solution show us
TOS: All Our Yesterdays, also covered this. Those people fleeing into their own world's past to escape it's end had to undergo special "preparation" in order to live permanently in the past. Most other time travelers usually return to their own time sooner or later. Apparently, the Federation could mitigate the problem, but not protect against it entirely. This may be why Spock died at such a young age for a Vulcan. He traveled across to the Kelvin timeline and backward from the late-24th to the late-23rd century.
holy sheet you're right o.o
Spock being half human might have lowered his life expectancy, but it checks out... To me at least
It was also covered in TNG "Parallels" where Worf's quantum resonance did not match that of the dimensions he was travelling through. You had both elements of time and spatial displacement addressed. Apparently, the writing staff has brought their A game to Season 3.
@@frankz5103 Hypothetically, his lifespan should have been longer. His genetic make up was carefully selected when Amanda and Sarek donated genetic material, and he was implanted in vitro. "Hybrid vigor" is what it was called. He was actually smarter, on average, than most Vulcans, and stronger. His dyslexia added in STD was the first negative trait his mixed physiology ever mentioned.
True, since Spock arrived _after_ the Kelvin Timeline was created so he would have had to cross both time and dimensions to get there, whereas Nero and his crew would've only travelled back in time since they were the reason for its creation. His Half Human side might've lowerd his life expectancy even further, meaning if he were full Vulcan he probably would've lived a few more years until the whole Time Molocules thing happened
Daniels: turns out time travel makes you pretty sick
Also Daniels: drags Archer all over the damn timeline on a whim.
Agent: "This is pointless. There is absolutely no-"
Computer: "There IS a solution."
Agent: "Show us!"
I just loved the way that worked out.
Yeah... That casual flex is going to come back to haunt them when agent tries to sieze the Sphere data...
So....does this mean that Carl actually hangs out on that planet, and has since whenever the Sphere studied it? Or did he somehow insert himself into the data in order to arrange for Discovery to bring Georgiou to a suitably enigmatic location for his little performance?
I think Glasses man is eager to know there is a solution and glad he is wrong !!!!
since this cut it off, i'm gonna assume it's the Guardian of Forever? honestly still amazed they brought that back after so long.
@@daniels7907 no, when they combined the sphere data with data from the 23rd century and 32nd century, the computer was able to triangulate the location
Loved Cronenberg as Kovich, hoping we may get him in a Starfleet Academy spin-off...
oh pretty please.
The end of that scene was an excellent bit of writing & acting. He wasn't certain because he needed to be, but because he genuinely knew he was right. And presented with a credible dissent, he's eager to hear it out.
That’s honestly the first time I have heard this said about ST:DSC.
The capacity to accept new evidence that overrules previously defined theory is the mark of an intelligent mind. There are no hills to die on, only new horizons to discover.
The man in the glasses is an intriguing character
I honestly think that man may be the new Federation President....I get an interesting vibe from him...brilliant negotiator and scientist
David F-ing Cronnenberg
Moment theres another way, "hes like, okay, new information is available, lets try it"
Now, if ONLY they'd ask the computer what The Burn is!
It won't be able to comply. That information is not available.
@@ensignmjs7058 *interrupts*, there is a solution.
I doubt it would have any clue since it only knew of a possible cure because the sphere data allowed it to know how to search for the Guardian of Forever and it was able to use 32nd century scanners to look for it. The sphere data wouldn’t have any records on what happened between Discovery leaving the 23rd century and arriving in the 32nd century beyond whatever data Starfleet memory banks contained (which apparently wasn’t much), so until it had more data on what happened, the best it could do was speculate. I mean, how many times could, “screaming child exposed to dilithium radiation getting upset and making everything go boom” have possibly happened
@@princejones0077 Show us.
Considering Yor there is from(presumably) the Kelvin timeline it almost seems to have self corrected(at least aesthetically), sort of the opposite of the mirror's drift. Granted things are still a little off, thats an Early Next Gen uniform(2350s/60s) while Yor is from the late 2370s. Though uniforms are a little messy in the back half of the 2300s anyway, maybe his boat never got the upgrade before he joined the temporal war.
I'm actually a little bummed by that, i really wanted to see a comic or something of a Kelvin Timeline version of The Next Generation era.
Bro what is that awesome music at the end. Never heard a beat like that. Totally a unique rhythm.
Hoooo boy yeah this scene and practically everything with Kovich takes on a whole new perspective now that we know his true identity.
Loved her character so much
Data traveled back to his own time the old fashioned way: Just hanging around
I guess you write off the romulans from the time/dimension rift thing because it wasn't an alternate reality until after they destroyed the Kelvin. Butterfly effect and such. Spock on the other hand, showed up later and may have ultimately died from this illness, but was at such an advanced age by that point it may have been missed.
0:15 0:17 I can hear the Star Trek 1966 Med bay bed sound
I love the last bit... that's how I talk to Chatgpt
I would love to see a star trek set during the temporal war. The constant time travel and altering histories would be neat.
Starting at 12:55 and ending at 1:10 they mention a Romulan mining ship incident. Ring a bell anyone? 😎
Yeah thats the whole point?
I want more of David Cronenberg in the final season.
Agent Daniels knowing the rule of time...As Doctor Kovich
The clues that Kovacs was Daniels were there all along.
The Temporal Agents would have existed prior to this. I wonder if they are still around.
Nope. All temporal technology has been destroyed and all time travel is banned by galactic treaty.
One of the fun parts of this scene it is a workup to The Scene.
Where they meet The Guardian. Poor fellow.
Anyway the solution was finding the seven Dragonballs. As the Infinity Stones were still lost to time.
Dude reminds me of the old nan from the movie up. Just taller
Funny his uniform looks very much the same.
I loved this episode, this problem and how it turned out.
however it occurs to me with the line "not without breaking the interdimensional displacement restriction" ... It would be interesting to see an alternate storyline where they basically "kirk it" and find the cotraban starfleet time ships and steal one... I guess the solution they came up with did sorta do this, just not as dramatic as stealing a timeship
My goodness Wilson Cruz is a spunk!
So to clear this up. The time soldier is from the Kelvin universe and Discovery is intended to be from the Prime Universe. Ignore the visual discrepancies as shows made now will naturally look better anyway no matter where on the timeline they are supposed to be.
“Look better” - And yet apparently, ST:Ent was more faithful to the visual language of its predecessors (eg Klingons & future Connie’s) than ST:Disc was. 🤔
@@UGNAvalonenterprise was made in the same larger production era as TNG, DS9, and Voyager, and therefore followed the same styles mostly because it was being worked on by a lot of the same people.
Discovery birthed a new era of the franchise with many new creatives who simply had their own ideas for visual styles.
@Cdr2002 I’d say that the “new era” started in 2009 with the JJ Trek film. But even then, the design language for the Klingons & starships was much more faithful than Disc’s :/
Discovery can be proven to be in the same timeline as DS9, Voy, TNG, LD, SNW, and Enterprise
With the context to who Kovach is, it makes sense to how he knows so much about reality and temporal travel
I don’t watch Discovery so forgive me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the cure likely to be jumping into a transporter to replace your molecular pattern with molecules from your current time?
@@abdullahansari437 Years. Bones take longer to refresh. Months for most of the body. Although I'm sure you can replace natural bones entirely for some super metallo-ceramic alloy... is it 31st century or 21st?
@@Hatafafa It's quite awful, but standards become quite low in recent years...
"Computer, save the plotline"
"This is pointless, the plot is set..."
"Plotline saving device"
"Show me"
Holy sht!!!! I love all those high syfy complex questions that star trek work on and how they put it in a diplomatic context!
The computer is too powerful 😮
she is suffering entropic cascade failure on a cellar level
Bruh, we do not conflate Star Trek, Stargate, and/or Star Wars together, under any circumstances. If it were to breach containment, the repercussions would be catastrophic...
Now we know why he knows....
I just realized I had it wrong about Yor. I guess because of the early TNG era sailor uniform, I thought he went FROM the "Prime" timeline TO the Kelvin-verse.
Rewatching, I see that he was native to Kelvin and jumped forward and into Prime. My question now is- because of the timewimeyness of the very creation of the Kelvin branch, facilitating all the changes to what we knew from TOS, were they saying the Kelvin Next Genners were STILL using the sailor uniform in 2379, which in Prime Time was already the Nemesis era? And were they also saying the Time War was already happening then in that universe or were they implying Yor became a time agent after jumping to Prime somewhere between the 27th, 29th, or 31st century?
Yeesh.
I like the nod to “temporal wars” for those who don’t know it it’s from Star Trek enterprise series with captain archer
And I think the Sphere Data Help......... Isn't it?
Wouldn't Prime Spock be similarly sick because he went back in time across dimensions. Unless the prime universe is aligned with the Kelvin universe when it was created.
The temporal distance is much shorter. And a version of him was also alive in the past he was sent to.
It’s possible that was one of the reasons why Prime Spock would pass away by the time of Beyond.
Prime Spock died, but we never learned how or why?
I would imagine that as a vulcan, he could suppress the pain more easily but eventually pass.
Possibly explaining his death, even though he was only around 160 years old, and Vulcans routinely hit the 200 mark.
The Enterprise series is considered the Prime Universe, and that would have also been the same history of the Kelvinverse. Spock went on a branch of the Prime, and away from it.
Why doing the squishy sound at the beginning? Is an hologram!
Why was he wearing an early 2360's Starfleet uniform?
"Forward from 2379..." They prove, yet again, they do not know Trek. Even arguing that this is an Kelvin Timeline individual, his uniform EXACTLY matches a prime timeline individual (already a bit of a violation) and that universe is supposed to be MORE advanced due to the Borg technology reverse engineered from Nero's ship, thus the use of that uniform discontinued over a decade prior in the prime timeline is nonsensical.
@@Freelancer117 It says feelancer, but you aren't fooling me, Melvar!
@@brettbuck7362 Great reference!
@@Freelancer117 I hoped someone would appreciate that…
@@Freelancer117 The technology they have has absolutely no bearing what-so-ever on designs they choose for clothing in the future. It could just be that the Kelvin counterpart of whoever proposed said design to Starfleet simply had that idea later. Or perhaps they liked the design more and chose to keep it longer, rather than phasing it out after only a few years. After all, some of today's military uniforms are well over half a century old themselves and haven't changed a bit.
That doesn't mean "do not know Trek". One could argue that constantly trying to find reasons to accuse someone of "not knowing Trek" may in fact prove that person doesn't actually understand Trek either.
I mean, my gods... a man some fans claim made the two best Trek films of all time apparently couldn't tell the difference between Klingon space and Romulan space.
Why did the "fleshing" of the Georgiou hologram have such a moist sound? It made my skin crawl.
Also, why all the flickering? TNG era holograms were incredibly realistic as soon as they rendered. Did they not upgrade sick bay when they did the rest of the ship?
@@daniels7907 New tech clashes with old tech, perhaps?
@@Stranglars1 - Nah. If you could crash holograms by blinking at the right rate then Data would have figured out how to beat Moriarty within nanoseconds.
@@daniels7907 It is possible that the flickering is intentional as a user interface consideration, to clearly indicate to the user (and the audience) that what we are seeing is a hologram. Perhaps a perfect projection was just too uncanny valley for the designers.
Gonna be honest though, I didn't really notice that it was flickering until you pointed it out.
@@daniels7907 Maybe it's because Georgiou's scan was incomplete? Yor's projection doesn't really flicker through out the whole clip here, and they look real, just like in TNG (and unlike the "ghosts" in early DIS)
Love this series
Well... The not so parallel parallel universe.
I think what happened to Phillipa Georgiou is Temporal Entropic Cascade Failure. Hmm, I wonder where I saw this before?!
Bruh, we do not conflate Star Trek, Stargate, and/or Star Wars together, under any circumstances. If it were to breach containment, the repercussions would be catastrophic...
That is how PRIME Spock dies in the Kelvin universe
You can see the actor playing the hologram tilt his head.
Matter is neither created nor destroyed, only changed. Also, the atoms in your body are constantly replaced. Georgiou has already left her universe for more than a year, a lot of the atoms in her body have already been replaced with prime universe matter. If she's eaten food in the 31st century, she already has atoms that have been replaced with 31st century atoms.
That is true on average, but not all cells are replaced in the same timespan. Some are finite, like your neurons. And even if you could argue than some parts of these cells are exchanged on a molecular level, like transmitter or proteins. The dna in the core of neurons wouldn't be replaced by matter of the new universe, because only by splitting into new cells the dna would be duplicated. As the neurons won't duplicate the atoms in their DNA would be still from the other universe no matter how much time has passed. The more interesting argument is beaming. As we know beaming destroys the original matter pattern and creates a new version with matter/energy so beaming a person should fix the problem instantly.
And lets be clear here... not you, nor I, nor anybody living today in the 21st Century has the slightest clue how travel across time and dimensions would affect physics with regard to the person making the journey. There are certainly hypotheses of what COULD happen, but none can be tested, so none can even advance to the realm of "Theory", nor can they be fully dismissed or disproven... as, again, they cannot be tested.
The guy looks like Bill Nye....
The only thing I always disliked about all Trek shows is the over used time travel episodes.
I miss Georgio.
So we just fixed JJ Abrams' many screwups.
Why would he accept anything said by a 900 year old doctor
Human, and presumably Terran physiology wouldn't have changed much in 900 years. Although you are right, the methods and technology associated with medicine would undoubtedly have changed.
@@GrahamJyc1 a doctor is still a doctor, treatments would be the same, but its how thy are administered that changes.
I wish sub title was allowed. It very hard for me to follow what going on since I am hearing impaired. Any idea.
you know we change our molecules with time right? its literally the aging process and cell cycles, some slower like brain and heart 7 and 5 years respectively, a side from energy its also teh reason we eat
"They're ironclad"....NO.
I'm confused, I thought that Kelvin timeline is just another timeline within the same universe not "another dimension".
Time here is rejecting him, so it is treating that parallel timeline like a dimension.
Same effect, different reason.
a different timeline would be a parallel universe, not the same universe, so it could be said a different dimension
@@ShadowcatAlfa OK, so how does the Star Trek time travel work? When does going back in time create a new timeline/dimension and when does it change the existing timeline?
@@kume1985 Unknown afaik. Star Trek has showed all forms of time travel: Temporal loops, self-fulfilling time travel, timeline alterations and timeline creations.
@@kume1985 If JJ does it - an alternate universe. If classic star trek does time travel - the original timeline get overwritten. If I type any more I'll have put more thought into than JJ did.
Watched a few times. Maybe someone could help so with the mention of the romulan ship does that mean we are in Jj verse not prime?
an incursion that created an alternate reality. There is precedent for this in pre-2009 Star Trek. Also, the unspecified properties of "red matter" could have caused more than simply a temporal incursion, but a break in the fabric of reality itself. It doesn't take much Treknobabble at all to make that work.
the fucking thumbnail hahahaha
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
Why didn't Tasha Yar 'break' when she jumped back in time and across universes?
I think that while Tasha Yar does fit the same criteria she was sent back to before the point that the Universes (Prime and Klingon War) diverged so it was essentially just time travel for her. Had she travelled to a point after the Universes diverged (let's say brought back to the point where Prime Tasha died) she would have suffered the same interdimensional time break.
Different methods of time travel. The Kelvin timeline was formed by Relativistic time travel across an event horizon. Yesterday's Enterprise was a "rip in spacetime," which I guess just changes the timeline you're in. So I think from a temporal mechanics perspective it was just time travel, she was from the same universe in a different temporal arrangement.
The range she travelled was shorter, so the affects were weaker and took longer to manifest. Not like it would matter anyway, as she was later killed.
So the Time War is a part of Star Trek?
It was back in Archer's time, so by extension it would have been history in both the Kelvin and prime timelines.
Who’s the scientist?
Putting your peanut butter in my chocolate will not make it bett....mmmmmmmmm
Judging by the guy's uniform and date (around when the TNG movies take place), kinda wonder if this is a sneaky way of getting a Kelvin universe TNG era show off the ground.
Not bad, STD had a bit of a thing going on. When it followed Star Trek canon.
It actually followed canon just fine, when you take canon to mean what it is supposed to - who did what, where, when, how, and why
You know, rather than only thinking canon means the way things look.
This was the cheesy time travel gimmick used in Redshirts.
Why have this dude glasses? 👓🤓 It's the 29th Century or?
Why are there windows on starships and buildings? Glass still exists. And even if its transparent aluminum instead of glass, so too could be the glasses.
And as we saw in Trek of days past, Kirk used glasses because he was allergic to the common treatment.
💨 | Wow 1:50
So this is an alternate dimension from the kelvin universe. Which means it really does not have anything to do with universe of TOS to VOY.
The uniform was a perfect replication of early TNG, this is far from the Kelvin Timeline.
@@josephbryant8799 forgive me but rewatch the clip, it's clearly states that the "time soldier" in the TNG uniform, travel both forward time and across from a different dimensions! He is not from the same dimension as discovery. That why he was dying and this starfleer euthanized him!!
Ergo, STD is set in a different dimension to TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. So like the terrible JJ movies, I can complete remove STD from my star trek head canon! As they are all set in the same terribly written universe populated by stupid, hopeless, childish, characters
@@kevesdancey How? it clearly states he came from the alternate timeline that was created by the mining ship. If he came from the timeline that Vulcan was destroyed in, then he must be in the same timeline as ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and PIC, in which Romulus was destroyed by a supernova.
@@josephbryant8799 the problem is this, both STD and Picard have massive continuity problems to with TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY series. This clip resolves most of them with the acknowledgement of the kelvin universe.
So it can be argued that star trek has three timelines
1st original line (golden age) ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and movies 1 to 9
2nd kelvin universe the ENT, JJ movies 1 to 3
3rd ENT, STD and Picard (cause by Nero first jumping to early point before kirk and spawning a 2nd universe different to kelvin and original)
This long winded explanation, dealing with most of worst parts of the JJ movies, STD and Picard.
@@kevesdancey You're trying to fight fiction with fiction here. TOS had massive continuity problems with the other series, as they had explored most of the galaxy and even left it a couple times, but the rest of the series established only a fraction of the galaxy had been explored. The official timeline says that all the series and movies take place in a single timeline which involves the destruction of Romulus, then that in turn sprouts the Kelvin timeline.
Trying to create any more universes is only useful if you are trying to separate the trek you don't like from that which you do. If you want to do that for your own head cannon then that's fine, but that doesn't mean that everyone else has to abide by the same rules. I gave up on this because if I tried to distance a certain series from the others, that leaves no room for it to get better. For example, I really didn't like Into Darkness but Beyond was really good.
Bunch timey wimey stuff.
This title makes no sense at all! "To either go back in time"......or what??? The word "either" implies there is an alternative, what is it?
or traverse to its original universe.
I love the references to the Kelvin timeline AND the Temporal wars from Enterprise.
Cool idea.
a lot of people prefer The Orville than Discovery. but even not considered that many fan that love the pure sci-fi than more comedy, seeing this, imaging how much doctor can do in the future, is it not cool? they put every thing on another.. imaging level rather just making jokes and fun with it, is still good tho - no offense - the 2D universe is stunning too tbh...
The Orville is vintage TNG, warts and all. For me, the warts haven't aged well, so i prefer the new Trek stuff. Kinda takes away the enjoyment when you already know every Orville script before it gets going, if you have watched TNG a million times.
Old trek is about scifi tech yes but more so its about a bright future, disco and picard just make everything so bleak and dreary,and everyone's always crying about everything
So who's the sad Ted danson
David Cronenberg.
@@MazeThePlaya the director
@@patoren3gou653 Yes.
Either transporters are sensitive enough to detect and copy whatever is in each atom that makes this happen and can therefore stop doing it. Or they are not sensitive enough to copy it and one transport should fix you.
This would require an understanding what property on a quantum level makes this happen and how exactly flip only this property. Just because you can copy something, doesn't mean you fully understand it (compare it to our current knowledge about DNA).
Thank God that this is part of the kalvin universe
Yor was from there! This takes place in the Prime continuity, however.
@@Stranglars1 FUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@wolfbane7497 It's okay, The Prime Continuity was an invention of JJ during his Kelvin phase... Or to put it another way, The Prime copies the classic continuity of TOS -ENT, and then changes it to suit SH's needs. Thus the Prime continuity is different from Classic continuity. Case in point, 25% different ship designs, Vulcan's moon, Different uniform designs aping the original TOS when they should have been a standard Pike era gold...
This gets the writers out of a big hole in needing to know Trek lore. I wouldn't be surprised if the Section 31 spinoff creates a Prime2 Continuity... if she has indeed changed the past of her mirror universe and it's not a fake out.
@@davfree9732 Yeah if JJ and Kurtzman want to claim anything prime it has to be a bad duplicate of "classic" and will be gone when the reboot gets rebooted. Though for the record Vulcan being part of a binary planet system goes back to TAS and TMP to explain the "not moons" in the Vulcan sky seen in those two scenes.
@@lucasbachmann the "not moons" don't exist anymore anyway, since the TMP updates.
This whole scene sounds more like a table read than q finished product.
This show gets a lot of flack. yes, it's incredibly uneven, but there are inspired scenes like this and the interview with Philippa Georgiou
This title don't make any sense
What about Alt-Tasha Yar, mother of Sela? She was from an alternate TNG present, went back in time to "correct" the timeline, and had a child with someone arguably from the main timeline's past. If she hadn't died (assuming you don't follow the STO follow up on her life), would she have risked dimensional/temporal evisceration?
the distance across time and dimension she travelled was far shorter, therefore the affects were weaker. Surely said effects could have eventually manifested and drastically shortened her life.... but she was killed anyway, so it doesn't matter.
The 29th/ 31st century (i've not actually watched discovery) and they still can't correct a person's stigmatism!? those are some thick glasses!!!
Georgiou: "Why are you wearing glasses?"
Kovich: "Hm, they... make me look smarter. I like them"
@@Sasha-zv2wxthey don't PAY ATTENTION when they watch...BUT THEY LOVE TO COMPLAIN about things that have ALREADY BEEN EXPLAINED earlier🙄
People can still be allergic to the common eye treatments. Reference Kirk from Wrath of Khan.
The camp dude acting smug like he'd figured out a solution, when all did was google it and show the search results.
Temporal Wars...another idea for another Trek series..
Enterprise did it. The Temporal Cold War is what's being referred to.
@@Freelancer117 Rather the actual war that it became in the beginning of the fourth season.
So wait, i have not watched STD, but are they saying that they are right now in the Kelvin timeline?
No it's saying Yor came from the Kelvin Timeline but from the 24th century.
I hate that title , either go back in time, or what?
Dr Fauci
To either go back in time... Or... What?
Haven't any of you plebs attended elementary/primary school?
Most real Star Trek fans' molecules fight to go back in time and watch real Star Trek too.
The script is as dry as the execution.
"Theres no solution"
"Computer is there a solution."
"yes"
thats just bad writing
I think the best end to Discovery would be to just declare that they are in a separate timeline and not the PRIME timeline. Maybe they think they are (and the storytellers want you to think they are), but with the Klingons in Season 1 they really forfeited that excuse a long time ago. Putting them in a separate timeline altogether means the Klingons COULD look like the junk versions they came up with and now that they are in the future it's a future of THEIR timeline. I don't think any fans really buy Discovery is part of the main timeline. The show already has too many inconsistencies to be part of the Prime, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be. They just seem to write themselves into too many corners. The Burn is just a plot device with no real explanation. How is it the Alpha Quadrant wasn't over run with Borg shortly after the Burn? Borg ships didn't base their propulsion on dilithium like everyone else. If this were the Prime timeline Discovery would have arrived to a quadrant filled with Borg cubes. I could go on but I'm already bored of my own explanation. Put Discovery in its own Timeline and let them pretend their in the prime, that's really the only way to fix the shoddy storytelling.
I get why people are upset about the Klingons, and I'm not quite fond of the design myself, but I still don't get why people are that shocked about the design change. Sure, it was kinda unnecessary, but some people act like that had never been done before, despite the Klingons' appearance having been retconned countless times.
its not pretty i agree there the borg issue is valid but most to all the beta cannon say the borg are either gone or reformed into the Co-opertive plus there is the factor of the temporial war who is to say that they were wiped out there or changed some other time between the end of Picard the most up to date point of the prime timeline and the end of that war
Do you not remember the end of Voyager where the Borg were decimated by future Janeway?
@@Sasha-zv2wx Do you not remember how far across the galaxy the Borg had spread and that there were hundreds, maybe thousands of cubes detached from the collective that would have survived. All Janeway did was destroy a transwarp hub the Borg used to Earth but it wasn't the only one in the galaxy. The Borg were not destroyed. They could have rebuilt. They would have been there later in Discovery.
Voyager/Janeway destroyed a Transwarp hub but not all the Borg. Even a dilithium 'burn' would only slow the Borg down so they don't have to write them into the show but they would have still be out there.
I know you're comment is 2 years old and that you'll find any excuse to ignore this and reiterate your blatantly anger-fulled opinion but I'll say this anyway:
The Klingons are just a visual change to match more heavy makeup techniques, just like what The Motion Picture's Klingons were until DS9 and Enterprise gave the differing Klingon designs a canon explanation. We've also seen that will Trills, first having the good old forehead ridge prosthetics in TNG's The Host which were then retconned onto the more iconic spots when Jadzia Dax was created.
As for Discovery's wider visual changes, we've seen Picard Seasons 1 and 2 cherrypick between using oldtrek or nutrek designs and Season 3 confirms the original visuals are still very much in use. Worf has thankfully not been Discoveryfied and we see an original TOS Constitution Class in the Fleet Museum (front and centre in a shot I should add!). This all but confirms that NuTrek's visual changes are just for the audience and the that what we see from TOS to Enterprise is the canon visuals of Star Trek.
As for the Borg, while Jurati's collective from the alternate timeline exists now in the prime universe, the original collective still exists albeit fractured. The virus Future Janeway infected them with left them in shambles. We get a glimpse of a dormant Borg Cube in Prodigy, and Picard Season 3 shows us what became of the Borg Queen. Both of these are very much the original Prime Universe. So yes, Discovery is in the Prime Universe whether you like it or not.
wait. theyre actually calling it "prime universe" in the freaking show now? jesus christ.
Looks like the agent 31 read the script... Prime universe...
No, he is saying clearly that what happened actually did. Hobus blew up.
The cool thing is, Kelvin is a separate universe and timeline form that point.
@@shauntempley9757 they called it the prime universe.... Wtf does any of what you said have to do with the fact the character in the show just refered to the dimension they are in based on the terminology the VIEWERS are told to use by the marketing spin team?
No character in star trek has ever refered to their own dimension as the prime universe.
Human hubris. It's a simple designation for a person's own particular reality. This is "my" universe, therefore it is the "prime" universe. Someone from the Terran, or Mirror universe, who has studied multiple universes may just as easily designate their own reality as the prime universe. If nothing else, then to simple differentiate.
Basically, you're over thinking it just to have something to bitch about.
@@ger5565 moron