Next couple videos are gonna be a bit different but I think you guys will like them! Sorry this took so long to get out, I had a lot of extremely frustrating issues with my editing software and also had a lot going on in my personal life recently. But I plan to have the next “What Happened To” alongside a few others out pretty soon. Main issue wasn’t getting the videos done, it was just my software not letting me export them. So I have a backlog finally
6:35, I don't think it's a problem of "she's a woman" or "she's a prey animal" but more so that she's a *very very small* prey animal, not known for being strong.
@@Theagentofchaos-r5q surely you've seen people discriminate on what they think someone will do rather than what they've actually done? it's not impossible he dislikes her because he though she was useless despite having gotten there perchance thinking that she was handed toe position or something simular. surely you cannot think that "the burley man does not think that a scrawny bunny is unable to archive as much as he can" that's what I'm trying to say
*Exactly*. It was actually kind of frustrating for me that he didn’t get the obvious. Look at literally every other animal in the police department. Yes the majority are prey, but they’re *big strong animals* that can obviously take down criminals, whereas she… is a tiny little bunny, so of course they’re going to look down at her both figuratively and literally, and think she isn’t as capable as them. (Honestly first I thought he was speaking figuratively, but no he meant that entirely literally by pointing out other female characters, as opposed to her being a rabbit and thus seen as not being as strong and capable as the other officers as being a metaphor for how women are sometimes/often viewed in a male-dominated workforce.)
I do agree that Zootopia has a lot of flaws despite me being a fan of the movie (especially having seen the film 5 times in a row and watched Zootopia+), and the issues surrounding the unethical ways Judy tries to solve the case are definitely questionable despite it being a fictional movie where reality doesn't always apply to it. But realistically, Judy's actions wouldn't bode well for her. I feel the staff behind the movie wanted to make a dystopian film about Predators being segregated but the execs at Disney were like "No Way We're showing that to Children!" so they went with a story that told a slightly toned down allegory for racism using Anthropomorphic animal characters to speak to the general audiences. But that toned down story didn't really solve the issue and I think if they took the "BEASTARS" approach, it would have been more effective at communicating the message of prejudice and how to survive it in an uncertain world. Then again, it wouldn't be marketed as a "family-friendly" film. Maybe they could have had Nick Wilde as the protagonist but not portrayed as a criminal and instead is just an average citizen of Zootopia living his life until he gets profiled by a police officer. Then he notices his friends behaving differently after also being profiled and discriminated due to them being carnivores, and tries to solve the conflict. That's when the plot starts up the conversation on prejudice. They probably won't solve the issue in the end, but they can find ways to combat it at it's roots and strive to still be themselves despite the world they live in. Also a lot of the furries who simp for Nick, Death, Vortex and Mr. Wolf do so because of the character designs, personality and charisma (or Rizz as they call it now), and having a thing for "bad boy" punk types who love to make chaos or look menacing. It's complex. Other than that, great retrospective on the subject 4shame!
Yeah I wish they kept the original plot where Zootopia is a militaristic City ruled by prey and Where predators I forced to wear shock collars where when they felt an emotion they would get hurt
Also I heard of the Nick’s pred theme park which feels much more good nature. Essentially with this plot, Nick had to go to the doctors for a check up for a special reason and for a short duration had his collar off. To Nick, it was the most wonderful experience of his life and felt bad that other predators couldn’t experience it. So he made a underground park where it was just preds hanging out without collars that they had removed using special equipment.
@@MedicalCross also the it has a twist villain is a sassy asshole pig Who basically is doing all this just so she can keep her power it’s not only is he just hysterical but the twist villain actually works because she’s hinted to before her big reveal and she’s threat and is genuinely surprising
I kinda like the movie, but I see your points. They really should have stuck with the shock-collar storyline, and just made Nick a less conceited person. I remember Just Stop claimed the message about prejudice does not work with Zootopia, because it uses the predator/prey aspect which, in the Animal Kingdom, is part of nature. "Cats Don't Dance", however, executed the message better by making the anthro-animals act no different than humans... yet were still treated like animals by the humans they worked with. Anyway, good vid, looking forward to your collab.
@@jeffreygao3956 ok that’s an opinion but I think when this movie was coming out it wouldn’t have been old at the time to be cliché and I am fine with dystopias because I want a real depiction of the real world
Honestly I like this move but I think it would have been morally loads better if the follow-your-dreams cop bunny aspect was scrapped. Have Judy be some random country girl moving to the city, who goes to the cops for help and gets ignored on account of her being "just a country bunny" and them having "more important cases to deal with", so she takes it upon herself to solve the case on her own as she sees more news of missing mammals. Trespassing and blackmail are still not a great thing to be teaching kids, but at least it wouldn't excuse those actions as just her being a cop "doing her job", she would be a nobody willing to risk getting arrested just to do the right thing and working to get over her own prejudice. It also frees up the racism themes from the police, which are two topics that get into uncomfortable territory very fast when put together.
@@orangeslash1667 Knowing what "Brave" could've been was WILD--though I do wish Disney would've adapted Tam Lin. It's possible Pixar would've never made "Brave" at all, at least not the way it was.
To me, Zootopia just felt...off. Was it supposed to be a political commentary on something? Kinda felt like it. Was it supposed to be just a silly little movie about furries? Also kinda felt like it. It for sure had a LOT of references everywhere! The feeling I got the most was "too many people had too much influence over too many things in the movie." (Too many chefs spoil the broth.)
It's definitely meant to be a political commentary about racism that just happens to use animals as its basis. Though watching this video does clear a lot of things I never would've thought of about this movie. Frankly, I think the racism commentary could work in this type of setting just with some more reworks. Though frankly, I did enjoy the movie we got, and while it may not be perfect, you can just sit down and just have a chill time with a pretty aight disney movie about racism
Another aspect of the world building that did not make sense to me was the whole Judy being a rabbit thing and not being suitable for the police force. Just to show my point, take that chase scene with the weasel through the rodent district. If Judy had been an elephant, she would have crushed that entire district while chasing after the suspect. Judy being a rabbit actually helped when running through that district and catching him, thus proving that there is a need for specalized cops on the force at the very least. Heck, there are entire districts built around having segregated areas where only certain types of animals are capable of living there. By the movie´s own logic, there would have been parts of the city that certain animal cops wouldn't be able to do their jobs in for the simple fact that they are either too big, small, etc., etc. for that type of job. There is no logical reason why every cop in this city has to be a large animal to do a proper job, even if it likely would have been the most beneficial considering the size of that city. The logic of this world just doesn't hold up to simple scrutiny.
Or that she's 1/5th the size of all the others officers and the movie was focusing on "Action Police" jumping over walls and tackling criminals. I mean, within the setting that's a bad argument, as there's district where she's a giant, but seemed pretty obvious their discrimination was because they didn't believe she could do the job.
@@Theagentofchaos-r5qI remember hearing once that them looking down at her despite that is realistic tho. She’s at the top of her class, yes, but she had no experience out in the field or with a *real* emergency
@@Theagentofchaos-r5qI remember hearing once that them looking down at her despite that is realistic tho. She’s at the top of her class, yes, but she had no experience out in the field or with a *real* emergency
I've had many people claim Zootopia handles prejudice well because of the whole "it's meant to show that racism doesn't just apply to one group, everyone can be racist".
I always thought the discrimination towards Judy was about ablism. She is not built like the other prey animals who make up the police. Like how many places won't hire people with disabilities or are patronizing to them, Judy is put down because of how her body is. Some people believe that disabled people are somehow less able to do work or that their work is inferior and that was what I thought that was what Bogo represented. He could have that hatred towards her as she took up space where they could have hired some other who was more of the norm. You did have other points that I agree with but not about how strange it is that Judy is put down despite being prey. There are other things people get put down for, despite being the race that holds power in society.
I felt the angle had more to do with sexism, just using animals instead. Also, Bogo did warm up to her when she proved she was able to do the job. It's actually a pretty accurate representation in many cases of the transition of women to the workplace. Particularly in the military and policeforce, there is a lot of question whether they will be able to handle the physical requirements. As women prove they can, most men are more than happy to have them there. It's when standards get lowered or they are allowed different standards that men start to get worried.
That's honestly a far better way of looking at things. Especially with the baby talk and "cute" shit. You see patronization a lot with regards to autism cause the leading stereotype for years was that autism entirely annihilates your ability to learn and mature when in reality it's only social development.
@@Theagentofchaos-r5q Could you be more specific about which ones you would expect to experience discrimination? Just naming the animal is fine since they're mostly extras.
I love Zootopia as a fun cop film, but the themes of racism were written confusingly. We see Judy being looked down on more than we see the predators being discriminated against. Nick should have been the cop being looked down on with Judy getting a flashback. Or, better yet, keep the older script with the shock collars and just make Nick less egocentric, with the right amount of lightheartedness. It feels like Disney overcorrected when the more serious script wasn't liked. Disney should take risks and see what happens.
In a way, they did take a risk; this was a non-musical (which usually don't do as well for them) with themes of racism that most companies don't do now. Personally I think Judy was looked down upon because of her height and the fact that she was from the country.
@@OpticalSorcerer That’s a good point. But, they could’ve taken it further by making Nick the main character with Judy having her own struggles as a side plot. I think it would make the movie so much more interesting with Nick being a predator.
@@k1ttkw1snky69 That's a fair POV. I do think it was important to have Judy be the main character since she's the one who has to overcome the implicit bias/racism from her trauma. You'll notice that despite his own trauma, Nick never actually hates prey or holds anything against them (he did have microaggressions with patronizing Judy and petting Bellweather).
But that's the thing about racism: it quite often _does_ go both ways. Sometimes one side or the other gets an advantage during certain times. While I think a lot of people look at it from the angle of racism, it actually works better from the angle of sexism. _Much_ better. Judy is presumed to be weak and incapable of handling herself physically as a cop. Nick is treated very harshly even as a child because predators are presumed to be untrustworthy in prey organizations. More than anything, I think the message was women can handle themselves, and by and large society doesn't have to be afraid of most men. But this put a spin on it that made it much more palatable.
Honestly, if they were going to lean into the racism narrative, they should have made Judy racist at least a lot more racist, maybe make her not even talk to Nick at first, and she learns the error of her Ways, or they go with the original plot
She _is_ racist though? That's the point of her character arc. She does harm to people around her, including friends, because despite her good intentions, she still believes the stereotypes. The movie was better off being subtle than trying to smash the audience's face in with the moral message.
@@NerfAutistbut I think part of the point was to show that people need not be overtly racist to cause problems. Even those who think they’re above racism can be prejudiced, which is how Judy was. Some people have what’s called implicit bias, and they might not be aware of that until it becomes problematic, and the point was to show what that looks like.
@@superfightingrobotmkx7776The concept of „implicit bias“ is modern academic nonesense. If there was no racist intention, then racism didn’t take place. plus it creates the idea that minorities are just to fragile about their own position that they couldn’t tell right from wrong which is really insulting to minorities themselves. In the 90s with movies like Cats don’t Dance writers still understood how racism really worked by making the characters human without a perpetual victimhood even if people actively look down on them. this ultimately leads to a stronger message at the point when they do find activ acceptance in their environment.
I think that Robocop still fits the bill for a Cyborg police officer despite his tragic death that caused his birth not just because he stands to uphold the law and keep the public trust but because he is by definition Human he is by nature that and makes me feel bad for him either way he’s the more ideal cop than some but if not there’s always Judge Dread.
@@AFoodiesWorld And it sucks because he did seem to have a slightly larger role in the original version, but then they just got Deebo from Friday to pull up to the recording studio for 3 seconds.
I have a lot of issues with this video's takes. Like a lot a lot. -I'm pretty sure the discrimination thing for Judy was their attempt at portraying intersectionality, but not gender. Rather, there is another type of bigotry in that animals are stereotyped according to human cultural associations (sheep are seen as innocent, the Whole Joke was "wolf in sheep's clothing" for the antagonist; rabbits are thought of as small, weak, and... ahem, "family oriented"). The point being, race isn't the only source of implicit bias. -Predators being largely criminal and what you describe as "stupid" follows from spending their whole lives economically deprived and socially discriminated against. That is kind of the point. Also how it works in real life - discrimination and lack of socioeconomic mobility makes people less likely to be educated (and thus have lower IQ) and more likely to turn to crime. -I'm pretty sure that's a highly uncharitable reading of Nick. Narcissist? Really? That's a reach. I'm also pretty sure the bit about kids being mean to him is also meant to be an allusion to a persistent background of racially charged bullying considering the setting, no? Also, the whole bit about him turning his life around and joining the police isn't a problem. It's good. That's in line with the ethics of rehabilitative justice, which is the only acceptably progressive foundation of justice alongside reconstruction. A lot of your anti-Nick takes seem to come from some essentialization of his character ("liar", "career criminal", etc) that is frankly pretty reactionary. -Also, to begin with, this whole moralistic framing is incredibly strange. If you've taught your kids to derive their morals from "a fictional character did it once so that automatically justifies it without further thought" and vice versa, you've failed as a parent to instill in them critical thinking. People should have ethical frameworks that lead to broader considerations, not just intuitively decide "this is inherently good" "this is inherently bad" or see the depiction of an action as automatic broad endorsement. It's the "seeing something in fiction normalizes it" argument, but if that is actually true, then something in society is wrong because no one should be thinking "well if one person does it, it should be considered a prescriptive social norm without context or nuance". That's like... Kant brain, and Kantian ethics is godawful in ways it would take me another hour to explain. You can argue that a lot of the execution is flawed, and I certainly would, but I really don't think the underlying themes or ethos of this movie are bad... other than whitewashing cops. The institution of policing is fundamentally broken and this is way too nice to the idea of cops. Also, people can like characters who aren't moral paragons or whatever, come on. I can't imagine living a life where fictional thirst is somehow arbitrarily restricted by moral judgment. Let people have their problematic blorbos, dammit.
Preach. I thought this was going to be a screed about copaganda and how you can't really deal with systemic problems by taking out a few bad actors as seemingly portrayed in the film, but I was profoundly disappointed.
@@michaelbenson5677 Oh yeah. Absolutely. That was what I was hoping for because that would have been fair and accurate, but it turned out to mostly be seething hatred for the characters and misrepresentation of what the actual plot events were. I asked friends who actually remembered the movie better, and half of the plot points being criticized kind of never happened.
Yeah this guy can have good takes, but when it comes to this movie most of it is a reach. Like Judy being discriminated against for being a woman even though the movie made it very clear she was looked down upon because of how people perceived rabbits. Also that Nick being a narcissist comment. Does he even know what narcissism is?
Oh man, been waiting for this video after you briefly brought it up in your Hercules video. It’ll be interesting to hear someone not talk positive about this movie since after 7 years, people are already starting to change their views on this movie, and for good/obvious reasons.
@@Jdudec367imo it was overall good, just that the message was very poorly executed, and that's honestly understandable given how much the movie was revised and rewritten during development.
The worldbuilding is weird because Nick is treated badly for being a predator and Judy for being prey but the Lion Mayor and Chief Bogo are not. So it's almost like the predator prey thing isn't really the problem in itself, but the intersection of the stereotypes about their species with their job/role in society. But that breaks the simple metaphor. Why does Bellwhether stoke up the prey/predator thing when it's likely that the main thing keeping herself from the top position is that she's a sheep? And if predator/prey dynamics are a metaphor for race dynamics, what on earth do the species represent? Family reputation? It's really not thought out well. (And I don't hate the film, though I'm definitely finding things I dislike as time goes on)
While I do like Zootopia, I do get your criticism... There are parts of the story-telling that doesn't quite make sense; and that's usually a sign of a troubling development behind the scenes. Also, as for furries, they always have Robin Hood and Maid Marian. Two Disney fox characters, one who's a thief with a heart of gold, and the other who's loving are caring for others
I feel like the ‘Bogo is mad at Judy’ and ‘Judy keeps breaking the law to get what she wants’ things could be easily tied together. Imagine in the jungle confrontation scene (or maybe a new scene) that Bogo finds out Judy had been bending the laws in various ways. He could still confront her and be angry, but this time he would say something like “We have a responsibility to follow the law just like everyone else, if not even MORE than everyone else.” This would more reasonably explain why Bogo would be trying to stop Judy’s pursuit of the case, because he would be upset about how Judy was breaking the law and using her position as the police to get away with it. This would make a much better message for kids about personal responsibility to do things ethically, *and* to hold the police accountable to their position of power/their actions. This doesn’t fix the broader issues like the awkward racism allegory, but it’s a start.
I thought it was obvious they hated her for being weak. The police think strength is all that matters in being a cop, because that means violence is all that matter in being a cop. Like in reality, because cops always get away with excessive uses of force. Judy as a cop learns to be clever from the Fox and learns to not assume all criminals are the same.
I think the idea is that Judy is discriminated against because she’s a small animal who works as a police officer specifically. Notice how before she joins, all the officers are much larger than her, and are animal species that are seen as tougher than the supposedly weak rabbits. The idea here is that every species has some stereotype imposed on them, even the prey species. So while prey generally have more privilege than predators, they can still be stereotyped out of certain things depending on their species or size.
3:45 what were the original draft it’s completely understandable that Nick would be a mean-spirited jerk he got taken away from his father at a young age he’s constantly shocked if he feels an emotion and he’s being discriminated against constantly.
i think the movie implies some kind of "speciesism" but for rabits being lower animals or smth or maybe its the fact that she is from a rural place? still doesnt seem very well writen but i guess its something
Could be the classism of rural vs urban, could be a subtle narrative for ableism as well because a small species being a stand-in for little people. Could even function as a narrative for religious discrimination, since bunnies, like Catholics, are known for prodigious reproduction.
Thanks for this. I won't defend the main plot, or crimes, but to give my take on the Judy-police dynamic: I never considered it could be because she was female/herbivore, it seemed to me that she was discouraged and kept away from "real" police work because they all considered her not physically capable, as she's so much smaller/vulnerable than them (ignoring that there's a tiny town, where she's giant). Still, the movie was going for a more "Action Police" theme. I'm surprised there was never a moment where she was confronted with a massive animal and just could do anything, or at least a scene where a giant was trapped and she kindly-moused a solution, given that, "rabbits can't be cops", start.
Aren't a lot of the problems with the movie also things that generally happen in real life? Like law enforcement being hypocrites, law enforcement _and the laws themselves_ being biased against certain demographics, the rich celebrating themselves making token gestures toward equality while perpetuating and profiting from the systems that caused the inequality in the first place...
Right, but the police here are the good guys, so kids might grow up thinking that this stuff is normal and ok to do. That’s the problem with this movie
@@sebastiansepulveda547 I'm sensing a pattern that outside of fairytales, Disney struggles to tell a story that appeals to both kids and adults at the same time. For example Disney's more mature films like Pocahontas, Hunch Back, Tarzan, usually have tonal shift problems whenever they try to be funny. I think Zootopia's plot would have more focus if it was ether mostly for kids or mostly for adults????
7:29 I don’t really think he hated her, at least I didn’t get that impression per say. I found it weird Judy immediately thought she’d be put on a case when she is a brand new recruit? Like to me it makes sense she’d start off doing the parking tickets as it’s a low level job. I think he viewed her as an overzealous recruit and that’s why he couldn’t stand her. At least that’s my theory.
Zootopia was made for me... Here is what I have beef with. Item-1 is how the police actually behave. It really peeves me that the first mistake was the idea that Judy was discriminated against "because she is a prey animal". It was because she is small, and unable to keep up with the rough and gritty actual police officers. I work as a security guard, private security. If you are lucky, your post will require you to eat grit for breakfast, take crap from your boss on the way into work, take MORE crap from the client when you GET to work, and then require you to be hungry for more before lunch... and that's while working a 12 hour shift. And most security companies love hiring ex-cops because doing all that is like a VACATION for them! In gritty, dangerous, and/or hard environments, there is a kind of brotherhood that forms. People share in the burdens and expect others to be there to share with them, easing the burden and reducing the danger. They want to make sure that the guy operating the big machine, so the little guy suspended a dozen floors off the ground can reach that tiny hole and turn the small screw just enough to secure the high-voltage will-kill-you-if-literally-ANYTHING-goes-wrong wire... isn't arriving to work drunk on the job. And the same goes with police forces. They take crap that most of us don't want to IMAGINE exists. And the thanks they get for it is... well, just watch the news, they don't celebrate the good cops anymore, they're too busy pasting up the images of all the bad ones they can find. Who cares if it's a cop in Canada, it's getting broadcasted everywhere in the US because WHO CARES! And Chief Bogo, if he was written right, knows that! He'd know that this scrawny little thing is going to dry up like a turd and blow away within less than a year! Trying to get her off the force, or at least force her into submission enough to BEHAVE is doing his department a FAVOR, if not outright SAVING A FEW LIVES! Item-2 Bellwether (now that I've actually Googled how to spell that stupid name), Let's list the crimes of Bellwether and compare them to Judy... Bellwether is guilty of... Hate crimes, False imprisonment, Drug dealing, Usurpation, Public endangerment, Attempted Murder, Attempted genocide, Terrorism, Judy is guilty of... Abandoning her post, Harassing a citizen, Endangering of citizens, Insubordination, Illegal recording and blackmailing of a citizen, Entering a private property without a warrant, manufacturing a probable cause, Entering a private property without a warrant using the assistance of a citizen without authority, Searching a vehicle without a warrant, Coercion of a citizen, Damaging property of the museum, About the trains. The "lab" didn't change tracks before being on a collision course... it was GOING to be hit by that train anyway. There is NO REASON to believe that any SANE PERSON would do that (what person caring enough about their safety would wear a hazmat suit in a drug-den and NOT place the car on a safe track?) So moving the lab without switching it's track was a good and safe bet... it's just that Disney Magic intervened and changed it into a dangerous one without thinking about the consequences of that. Of Judy's crimes, she might get about five to ten years in prison. Of Bellwether's crimes, she might get THE DEATH PENALTY. Of the two, Judy is the more likely to be up for pardon. Also, very little of the evidence against Bellwether was illegally obtained and almost NONE of it was a violations specifically of Bellwether's rights, so most, if not all of it, would hold up in court. Item-3 Given Disney's deep dive into Woke ideologies, Zootopia makes a lot more sense as a kind of "here's where we're going but we haven't quite lost our minds yet" mentality. That's one thing that makes Zootopia so popular, it's the story of a plucky young person, pursuing her dreams and finding obstacles that she didn't realize would be there, some of which aren't outside, but inside. If nothing else, Zootopia is about seeing the evil within oneself and confronting it.
@@john52933 tolerate? What more do I need to tolerate before enough is enough?! You choose to jump off a cliff and then condemn everyone who doesn't do the same! It is not I that needs to change and I am sorry that you feel that I do.
@@jaypee116 I think I saw a Film Theory about the war crimes committed in the COD series... or something. The final conclusion was simply that... the winners of war don't get punished (as badly) for their own war crimes, only the losers of a war get punished for their war crimes. Perhaps something similar is in Zootopia?
I think the crux of the issue is that the discrimination in the movie doesn't make sense if it were a case of racism, but that's the point really - it doesn't fit because it's not racism, not sexism. There are clearly multiple layers of prejudice in the city - against predators, but also against Judy for being a really tiny prey animal not known for their ferocity. Judy was not trying to prove that she could "be a successful prey animal in a world where she's in the dominant social class", she's trying to prove that she could be an effective cop despite her *major* size disadvantage. Being a prey animal does not help when she's competing against a rhino for physical strength.
It's funny that they spent so much time treating her like trash by judging her by THEIR standards (big and tough = ALL that matters in an officer) when her diminutive size would allow her to maneuver through areas that would be a major no-go for the supposed 'superior' members of the force (see, chasing mice bandits through their own turf without looking like a two-bit Godzilla knockoff)
12:08 Nick didn't become a criminal because a bunch of 5 year olds were mean to him as a kid. It's implied in the movie and even more so in the book that Nick and his parents were victims of racism their entire lives. Those kids muzzling him was likely the straw that broke the camels back
She wasn't being discriminated against because she was a prey animal, the entire point of contention was the force's bias against such a small animal joining them even though there are places in Zootopia that the big ones wouldn't be able to go to (see: the smaller mammals) because of the risk of causing collateral damage while chasing a perp
Honestly, the whole thing with Judy as the protagonist and treated poorly for...being upper-class by other upper-class people...kind of reminds me of the problem I had with Naruto as a protagonist. He had a very similar thing going where the story seemed to be trying to portray him as a character struggling to succeed in a world where people were just born more gifted than others and how unfair that could be. Only for him to end up having been born the most gifted?? The son of a Hokage revered as a hero and a near extinct Clan, not to mention a Jinchuriki, and even got one of the best teachers a ninja could ask for in one of the Sannin.
Nah both made sense. Naruto really isn`t the most gifted, him being the son of the Hokage meant really nothing for him and being a Uzumaki was his only net positive, the jinchuriki is at best a mixed bag and double edged sword, and he had to work to even get Jiraiya as a teacher too that`s the thing.
@jaydenc367 Thats just wrong. His tailed beast power saved him like 20 times in situations where any other ninja would have met their end, and thats just one example of how the story contradicts itself.
@@hardboiled2987 No it isn't wrong. Eh did it? A lot of those times he was in those situations to begin with because he was a Jinchuriki. And no the story doesn't contradict itself.
@@Jdudec367 Naruto runs out of chakra Naruto almost gets killed ''no i wont give up!!'' kurama comes out infinite chakra beats bad guy this happens like at least a good 15 times in the show.
@@hardboiled2987 He never truly ran out of chakra. No lmao, Kurama helped at times but it wasn't 15 times, let's see....it helped him beat Pain, he fought Orochimaru but didn't beat him with Kurama, he lost to Sasuke the first time even with Kurama, hm....what other bad guys did he beat with Kurama? It helped him beat Gaara when he used some Chakra but he mostly used his own stuff and never ran out of chakra there.
That's a fair take. I see it as being a similar case to Raya and the Last Dragon - in that the message is completely muddled. Although unlike Raya, I enjoy watching Zootopia. At least it's not boring.
Why are you ignoring that they "hate her" cause she's a bunny and smaller animals are not supposed to be in specific power roles? lmao. I don't think the whole racism metaphor is just about prey/predators but also about the different animals. The very first point of the movie is about her going against her family and society when she decides to be a cop even tho she's a rabbit. That also explains why the other animals can't stand her, cause they think she's not supposed to be there.
Not sure I can get down with some of these takes. If you didn't like it, you didn't like it, and that's fine, but personally, I think this movie did a better job demonstrating implicit bias better than most movies made for adults.
Ok where to start? Not defending Zootopia but you have several facts wrong and as for realistic depictions of law enforcement this is a MOVIE…I watched Elementar…the modern Sherlock Holmes set in NY…and one episode showed the NYOD making a deal with a criminal to save innocent lives…guess what? THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN…hate to tell you but if that episode happened today those people would FIE just like you will be charged if you are in the car with someone caught DUI Anyway back to Zootopia I think the thing between Judy and Bogo isn’t the whole prey thing but her size and perceived strength…I myself am short and look youthful despite being in my 30s and people constantly talk down to me because they think I’m a kid…Judy is a small rabbit while Bogo and literally every other cop is 5 times bigger and stronger than her…his bias is with her appearing so weak despite passing the training…that and being a rookie he doesn’t think she will last…reason he gives her the assignment after SHE agrees to find the otter…he is the guy in charge who is trying to juggle cases along with this string of attacks and like many those attacks that can’t be solved easily sit on the back burner while the seemingly more pressing cases get priority treatment…meanwhile she promises the otter her husband will be found which puts the PD in an awkward situation because if she fails the otter could sue or speak out painting the PD in a bad light Now Jusy does manipulate the situation several times along with tricking Nick but again this is a movie…plus she is under a time crunch and Nick deliberately delays her work which almost costs her her job The mafia boss thing (think those are shrews) you got backwards…Judy and Nick almost die because Nick crossed the boss by selling home a rug made from a skunk but…and like in real life you don’t cross the mafia…but they are saved because earlier when Judy was chasing the weasel she saved the boss’ daughter from being crushed by that donut so he spares their lives in gratitude…and the whole Godfather cliche thing As for Nick he was traumatized after being bullied as a kid and he comes out and says he and him mom didn’t have much meaning poverty…forget predictor vs prey for a minute and think about people who have been bullied…some became so depressed they took their own lives…Nick turned to crime to get by in the world like some people do in the real world Disney has never really hammered morals into movies and while this might be a weak attempt at showing prejudice it does show don’t judge a book by its cover…someone weak might be stronger than you think…rough exteriors don’t always mean horrible people…someone could be a wolf in sheep’s clothing pretending to be nice and helpful but with anterior motives…etc The son in the credits was just supposed to be the concert that got put on hold because of the conflict and while Judy made things worse the media pushed her for answers and the sheep helping Bellweather was one of them deliberately trying to make things worse If you want to argue morals go look at MLP FIM…I mean the infamous Lesson Zero episode shows kids cheating and lying about it are fine if you get your friends to rally behind you but in A Horse and Pony Show they see fibbing to try and do something nice for someone you look up to is terrible and will get you in to NIG trouble so don’t even think about it…there are tons of mixed up lessons and yet the fandom is still strong as ever These movies and shows are just pretend…animals trains and cars don’t talk…toys don’t come to life when you leave the room…and most depictions if real world things are rarely accurate…even in normal shows and movies directed towards adults this happens…creative liberties are taken to fill time and add drama…unrealistic stunts like shooting a lock don’t actually work…and as mentioned above depictions of law enforcement don’t reflect what actually goes on because it is just a show or movie and they want to keep the plot going and possibly provide a happy or at least satisfying ending that might be the polar opposite of what would actually happen Anyway those are my thoughts…one of my favorite movies but I don’t read into deep…these are meant to be entertainment not something to use to teach a class and I enjoy the entertainment factor with the visuals and music and story…prejudice might be put on a little thick but I can say the same for selfishness and stupidity in more recent movies like Ralph Breaks the Internet Toy Story 4 and Frozen 2…I can also relate to Judy constantly being overlooked and having to speak up to be taken seriously and also Nick with people constantly staring at me because of my appearance…not a great feeling when people look at you like you are an alien from Planet X because they think asking is rude but staring you down is acceptable Just my opinion
Also I think they didn't like Judie and felt she wouldn't be a good fit was cause of how small she is. I mean, all the other Prey cops are like, big people. Plus it isn't uncommon for like, the maverick cop, or whatever, who breaks all the rules but gets away with it, is often the hero. Look at House from well, House. Dude is a doctor who does repeaed potential fellonies and risky treatments to save people, and rarely faces consequences.
Judy uses Nick and shes a jerk. Shes the bad guy let a man blackmail a woman to do as he wants for selfish reasons then see hiw fast the movie gets pulled.
The way I've always interpreted why Judy seems to be discriminated against even though she's a prey animal and prey animals are on top, is that Judy is a metaphor for like, being Irish-American or something - yeah there's a history of stereotyping and prejudice, but in the modern context Irish-Americans are also very much a subset of being white. I figured Zootopia has a similar thing with certain prey animals; some of them came to Zootopia poor, distrusted, and with some degree of cultural stereotyping, but ultimately it isn't on the same level as the racism that predators experience.
While some of the points you made are completely made up (for example I never got the impression that the prey were the dominant species considering all the police force and even the mayor were all predators who were both literally and socially looking down upon Judy for being a rabbit, or the fact the Judy only befriended Mr. Big was because she saved his daughter’s life earlier in the movie) I do still agree that with your main argument that Judy isn’t a good role model.
I personally see it as the prey trying to flip the power dynamics before realizing “no, they should live in harmony n’ shit.” -nick wilde circa 2016 But I agree Judy is a terrible role model I hate cops
I liked that Judy was descriminated against; it gives the lesson that racism is a lot more complex than most people think it is. Judy is descriminated against because she is a rabbit going into a profession that is pretty much exclusively made up of large mammals, both preditor and prey. Had Judy moved to Zootopia to open a greengrocer, for example, she would not have faced the same prejudice as she would have been doing what bunnies are shown to be stereotypically expected to do; provide food. It is the action of stepping out of 'her' lane that causes the problem. This is why Chief Bogo doesn't like her; his preconcieved notion of rabbits as a species causes him to expect Judy to be incapable as serving as a police officer. A couple of (rather extreme) examples from history: - If you put someone from Ireland and someone from England next to each other, it would be impossible to tell which was which. This did not stop the English from literally letting the Irish people starve to death during the Potato Famine (1845-1852). Millions died. The English Government (who ruled the entirety Ireland at the time) gave little to no help because the Irish were seen as lazy, stupid and incapable, and if they were dying it was their own fault. The Famine itself was even seen as a blessing by the English, as it would reduce the population and allow for the modernization of Irish agriculture. - If you put a Tutsi person and a Hutu person next to each other, it would be impossible to tell which was which.This did not stop the Rwandan Genocide (7 April - 15 July 1994) saw the murder of over a million Tutsi people by not only Hutu milita, but also ordinary Hutu people - often people who knew the victims. 75% of the Tutsi population is thought to have been killed. The stereotype of Irish people being stupid still exists to this day, as does the stereotype of Chinese people being good at maths, and the stereotype of Native American people being 'noble savages'. (These are not my opinions - they are just examples!!). I could continue this list probably indefinately, but I don't really want to. Racism is a lot more than black and white, and I think that gets forgotten a lot in media. Racism is a whole colour wheel, and that needs to be remembered. Definition of racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized. Definition of ethnic group: a community or population made up of people who share a common cultural background or descent.
I dare to disegree, Theres a VERY CLEAR reason why Bogo hated Judy - shes a bunny. Thats why others make fun of her as Well, thats the whole point of that, because shes a small bunny others dont recognise as strong enough to be a cop. And prey animals arent on top at the start either. I mean the mayor is a flippin lion. The whole “basically racism” thing gets into play much later after they make fun of Judy ect.
Thank you for making this video. I'm so tired of people praising this movie because of its world building without acknowledging it's flaws. Like season 1 of the Legend of Korra, this movie tries to convey that if the heros defeat a villain that is making use of a prejudice, then suddenly that prejudice is no longer a big deal. If someone is going to write a story about somthing like a prejudice then they need to show there is always work that need to be done.
I dont get why its called zootropolis in some places, like metropolis means something completely different than utopia and the whole point of the name is that its supposed to be an animal utopia
oh wow this was a long time coming. i remember when u mentioned this in the hercules vid and the community post where u asked for opinions on judy like half a year ago. u pretty much condensed all my thoughts on the movie perfectly
13:06 OK all of this stuff makes sense but kids don’t read that deeply into stuff. They’ll just think it’s a funny movie. So you don’t have to be so concerned that it’s gonna make them think that that stuff is OK because they’re not gonna think about it, and read into it deeply like adults would.
@@lilhedgehog8576 i was more speaking about things like Juddy expecting to be in high rank in police force from day one, her making deal with mafia, illegally get information , use intimidation on several occasion, using illegal methods to get things her way, Basically she is entitle and corrupted, and she is supposed to be a role model for kids apparently
Great Video review on Zootopia and analysis of Zootopia and I pretty much agree with most of your points on the movie. Can’t believe I used to love this movie but not anymore and I don’t hate it but I it had potential to be something very beautiful and unique but because of the story and characters, it turned out to be a huge letdown and a big disappointment for me. I would stick with The Dino King Franchise, The Kung Fu Panda Franchise, Camp Cretaceous and The Sing Movies because those are way better than Zootopia in my opinion and not to mention other Disney movies that are way better like Wreck It Ralph and Big Hero 6 because those are way better than Zootopia. I may not be the biggest fan of Zootopia but I still prefer it over the Frozen Franchise and Chicken Litte because I felt something. I might make a video on this but great work on this and keep it up.
Video: Furries seriously, get yourself a higher class of man to simp for. I mean first a con man, and then another con man, and then a demon from hell, and then death. Furries: I can fix them! :(
I think it would have been better if it started in bunny hallow or wherever she came from. Like imgaine instead of being put onto the missing animal whatever, she notices something or whatever while doing cop stuff in Bunny-Land and then notices more and more things that make her do an investigations much like old murder/police movies ramping up as the movie progresses leading to whatever it is which lead her to zootopia.
I’ve seen Zootopia twice, and I hated it both times. What I don’t get about this movie is just how awful the metaphor is. A predator needs to eat a rabbit or mouse or something in order to live. If it doesn’t do that, it wouldn’t be a predator. It would adapt to being something else, or it would fail to keep on surviving and go extinct. And yet all the predators-which are stand in for minorities which are NOT inherently dangerous-still have these violent instincts buried deep inside of them. Also, they are at the top of society, with the mayor being a lion for example, and yet they’re still the most likely to be discriminated against. Seriously, what even is this metaphor?
After re-watching the movie recently they discriminate against Judy due to her size and lack of quote unquote strength if you noticed even the other herbivores on the police force are animals like Rams elephants rhinos animals that have extreme physical strength and defenses.
This movie is not good depiction of racism and honestly the only redeemable quality of this movie is the animation, the voice acting, the design but on social commentary they really suck. Also can we talk about when portraying racism in fantasy or fictional oppression they often use non human to make that comemntary on racism. When movie want to tackle the issue of racism using non human i think they should think twice before doing it and they should involve people who come from marginalized group. Zootopia, Balto and beastars they should never ever involving fictional oppression in their story
@@arthursemeghinigallo3336 Yes however some people can see or interpret it as allegory of racism. Let's start with balto he a wolfdog some people see that the reason he was discriminated because of his mixed heritage. Some mixed race people see themselve on balto. Then with beastars yes it's prejudice but racism is also part of prejudice too
While I love this movie, one argument I can bring up as to why it's not good for kids is that it expects kids to know what the heck case files and running plates are. I'm a grown-up and even I barely have any idea of what those could mean!
can u shut up with you dumb criticism no one want to hear it thinki zootopia was a heart warm movie and i loved it u are just a shame humen if u dislike this movie it was a masterpice film!
The part about kids being mean to Nick wasn’t just light teasing. They literally muzzle him for the core reason they hate him for being a fox. That’s pretty intense. But you do make a lot of good points though.
My car got towed in an unfamiliar city and the cops were so unhelpful. I had to bum a ride from a man *as a woman in a strange place* but hey, he took me right to the towing place and didn't ask for favors.
14:12 the movie was made for furries. Literally it (In all actuality that is too small of a demographic but it was just for kids who see fluffy animals and get all happy and same for furries)
Actually, Schaffrillas didn't like it... Because the racism metaphor doesn't work . *(Also Schaffrillas hates twist villains and Zootopia has a twist villain.)*
I think this review super missed the mark and had zero good points You clearly didn't pick up on any of the character motivations . also BEASTARS is a worse story
Haven't watched this movie in forever but I wonder how much could've been improved by just swapping Judy and Nick's roles. Nick as an aspiring cop being discriminated against in the force, and Judy as a conwoman (nobody would suspect a prey animal, let alone such a tiny defenseless looking one). 🤷♀️ Ah well
…And here I thought it was Dawn Bellwether that was the soul reason Zootopia is a criminally overrated film. What with ALL of her evil henchmen being visually appalling, octopus-eyed, Xenomorph-faced, fat wooly coat wearing horrors posing as rams in contrast to the other more humanoid anthros to expose her as the horrible twist villain even before her reveal, which in turn ruins the message of equal rights to kids by showing them that ALL sheep in the film are villains. But Judy Hopps’ criminal record throughout the entire film flew over my head until just now!
Yeah 100% my life got ruined because of this movie I watched it as a kid and I looked up to the ANTAGONIST Judy Hops since I based my entire life off this character I have officially done every single thing that you said I shouldn’t do thinking it was right, man it’s almost like that kids don’t actually necessarily look up to the main character rather the message it brings I’m 12 btw and I don’t think I’m torturing people anytime soon because I saw a funny gag in a movie
Bogo hates Judy because he sees her as small rabbit mascot who get jer job in police job only because mayor wanted to promote diversity and boost his campaign. That's why he gives her ticket job at the beginning.
Next couple videos are gonna be a bit different but I think you guys will like them! Sorry this took so long to get out, I had a lot of extremely frustrating issues with my editing software and also had a lot going on in my personal life recently. But I plan to have the next “What Happened To” alongside a few others out pretty soon. Main issue wasn’t getting the videos done, it was just my software not letting me export them. So I have a backlog finally
6:35, I don't think it's a problem of "she's a woman" or "she's a prey animal" but more so that she's a *very very small* prey animal, not known for being strong.
But she was at the top of her class and yourself shown beating a rhino in a boxing Match
@@Theagentofchaos-r5q surely you've seen people discriminate on what they think someone will do rather than what they've actually done?
it's not impossible he dislikes her because he though she was useless despite having gotten there perchance thinking that she was handed toe position or something simular.
surely you cannot think that "the burley man does not think that a scrawny bunny is unable to archive as much as he can"
that's what I'm trying to say
@@TwoManyFoxes I get it but it’s still kind of ruins the metaphor
*Exactly*. It was actually kind of frustrating for me that he didn’t get the obvious.
Look at literally every other animal in the police department. Yes the majority are prey, but they’re *big strong animals* that can obviously take down criminals, whereas she… is a tiny little bunny, so of course they’re going to look down at her both figuratively and literally, and think she isn’t as capable as them.
(Honestly first I thought he was speaking figuratively, but no he meant that entirely literally by pointing out other female characters, as opposed to her being a rabbit and thus seen as not being as strong and capable as the other officers as being a metaphor for how women are sometimes/often viewed in a male-dominated workforce.)
FR it's so obvious
I do agree that Zootopia has a lot of flaws despite me being a fan of the movie (especially having seen the film 5 times in a row and watched Zootopia+), and the issues surrounding the unethical ways Judy tries to solve the case are definitely questionable despite it being a fictional movie where reality doesn't always apply to it. But realistically, Judy's actions wouldn't bode well for her. I feel the staff behind the movie wanted to make a dystopian film about Predators being segregated but the execs at Disney were like "No Way We're showing that to Children!" so they went with a story that told a slightly toned down allegory for racism using Anthropomorphic animal characters to speak to the general audiences.
But that toned down story didn't really solve the issue and I think if they took the "BEASTARS" approach, it would have been more effective at communicating the message of prejudice and how to survive it in an uncertain world. Then again, it wouldn't be marketed as a "family-friendly" film. Maybe they could have had Nick Wilde as the protagonist but not portrayed as a criminal and instead is just an average citizen of Zootopia living his life until he gets profiled by a police officer. Then he notices his friends behaving differently after also being profiled and discriminated due to them being carnivores, and tries to solve the conflict. That's when the plot starts up the conversation on prejudice. They probably won't solve the issue in the end, but they can find ways to combat it at it's roots and strive to still be themselves despite the world they live in.
Also a lot of the furries who simp for Nick, Death, Vortex and Mr. Wolf do so because of the character designs, personality and charisma (or Rizz as they call it now), and having a thing for "bad boy" punk types who love to make chaos or look menacing. It's complex.
Other than that, great retrospective on the subject 4shame!
Yeah I wish they kept the original plot where Zootopia is a militaristic City ruled by prey and Where predators I forced to wear shock collars where when they felt an emotion they would get hurt
And on top of that, keep that completely seperate from any references to real life racism. Just make it it's own thing and keep it as xenofiction.
That would 100% be better then what we got.
Nope, sounds awful.
Also I heard of the Nick’s pred theme park which feels much more good nature. Essentially with this plot, Nick had to go to the doctors for a check up for a special reason and for a short duration had his collar off. To Nick, it was the most wonderful experience of his life and felt bad that other predators couldn’t experience it. So he made a underground park where it was just preds hanging out without collars that they had removed using special equipment.
@@MedicalCross also the it has a twist villain is a sassy asshole pig Who basically is doing all this just so she can keep her power it’s not only is he just hysterical but the twist villain actually works because she’s hinted to before her big reveal and she’s threat and is genuinely surprising
That's not your fursona? my life is a lie
I kinda like the movie, but I see your points. They really should have stuck with the shock-collar storyline, and just made Nick a less conceited person.
I remember Just Stop claimed the message about prejudice does not work with Zootopia, because it uses the predator/prey aspect which, in the Animal Kingdom, is part of nature. "Cats Don't Dance", however, executed the message better by making the anthro-animals act no different than humans... yet were still treated like animals by the humans they worked with.
Anyway, good vid, looking forward to your collab.
No, the shock collar storyline should never have been concieved.
@@jeffreygao3956 the shock collar story would have been infinitely better
@@Theagentofchaos-r5q More like infinitely worse. I am tired of any form of dystopia and prefer to avoid it instead!
@@jeffreygao3956 ok that’s an opinion but I think when this movie was coming out it wouldn’t have been old at the time to be cliché and I am fine with dystopias because I want a real depiction of the real world
@@Theagentofchaos-r5q No, dystopia is NOT like the real world. That’s cynicism talking and cynicism is NOT realism.
Honestly I like this move but I think it would have been morally loads better if the follow-your-dreams cop bunny aspect was scrapped. Have Judy be some random country girl moving to the city, who goes to the cops for help and gets ignored on account of her being "just a country bunny" and them having "more important cases to deal with", so she takes it upon herself to solve the case on her own as she sees more news of missing mammals. Trespassing and blackmail are still not a great thing to be teaching kids, but at least it wouldn't excuse those actions as just her being a cop "doing her job", she would be a nobody willing to risk getting arrested just to do the right thing and working to get over her own prejudice. It also frees up the racism themes from the police, which are two topics that get into uncomfortable territory very fast when put together.
Eh, I'm kinda tired of the "cops suck and it's fine to break the rules because of that" trope.
@@OpticalSorcerer dunno about the 1st part, cops DO suck...
@@OpticalSorcerer It makes me wonder if John Lasseter interfered too much with this film, since he completely interfered with Brave?????
@@orangeslash1667 Knowing what "Brave" could've been was WILD--though I do wish Disney would've adapted Tam Lin. It's possible Pixar would've never made "Brave" at all, at least not the way it was.
@@OpticalSorcerer interesting.
To me, Zootopia just felt...off. Was it supposed to be a political commentary on something? Kinda felt like it. Was it supposed to be just a silly little movie about furries? Also kinda felt like it. It for sure had a LOT of references everywhere!
The feeling I got the most was "too many people had too much influence over too many things in the movie." (Too many chefs spoil the broth.)
It's definitely meant to be a political commentary about racism that just happens to use animals as its basis. Though watching this video does clear a lot of things I never would've thought of about this movie. Frankly, I think the racism commentary could work in this type of setting just with some more reworks. Though frankly, I did enjoy the movie we got, and while it may not be perfect, you can just sit down and just have a chill time with a pretty aight disney movie about racism
Another aspect of the world building that did not make sense to me was the whole Judy being a rabbit thing and not being suitable for the police force. Just to show my point, take that chase scene with the weasel through the rodent district. If Judy had been an elephant, she would have crushed that entire district while chasing after the suspect. Judy being a rabbit actually helped when running through that district and catching him, thus proving that there is a need for specalized cops on the force at the very least.
Heck, there are entire districts built around having segregated areas where only certain types of animals are capable of living there. By the movie´s own logic, there would have been parts of the city that certain animal cops wouldn't be able to do their jobs in for the simple fact that they are either too big, small, etc., etc. for that type of job. There is no logical reason why every cop in this city has to be a large animal to do a proper job, even if it likely would have been the most beneficial considering the size of that city.
The logic of this world just doesn't hold up to simple scrutiny.
Yeah that is one good part of the world building but why do the The animals have costumes of them Selfs
One explanation that I can think of for why Judy Hops is looked down upon is because she was from a rural area.
or just because she's a rabbit trying to work in a job assigned to bigger animals?
Or that she's 1/5th the size of all the others officers and the movie was focusing on "Action Police" jumping over walls and tackling criminals.
I mean, within the setting that's a bad argument, as there's district where she's a giant, but seemed pretty obvious their discrimination was because they didn't believe she could do the job.
@@TheArcSet yeah but she was at the top of her class and again it ruins the metaphor
@@Theagentofchaos-r5qI remember hearing once that them looking down at her despite that is realistic tho.
She’s at the top of her class, yes, but she had no experience out in the field or with a *real* emergency
@@Theagentofchaos-r5qI remember hearing once that them looking down at her despite that is realistic tho.
She’s at the top of her class, yes, but she had no experience out in the field or with a *real* emergency
I've had many people claim Zootopia handles prejudice well because of the whole "it's meant to show that racism doesn't just apply to one group, everyone can be racist".
Except it IS true everyone has potential to be racist/sexist/homophobic. Both Left and Right sides are not to be trusted and only the center can hold.
I mean, they're not wrong
@@RedPigSpartan you can't be racist against white people, you can be prejudice, but you can't be racist towards a group that isn't a minority
@@donniesanchez8831 Yes you actually can, bigot.
@@donniesanchez8831 Yes you can, bigot.
if im not mistaken, they chose the name Gazelle because it sounds similar to Adele
And the reason she has big hips was cause her VA Shakira requested it.
@@Zacman1123 "Good"
I always thought the discrimination towards Judy was about ablism. She is not built like the other prey animals who make up the police. Like how many places won't hire people with disabilities or are patronizing to them, Judy is put down because of how her body is. Some people believe that disabled people are somehow less able to do work or that their work is inferior and that was what I thought that was what Bogo represented. He could have that hatred towards her as she took up space where they could have hired some other who was more of the norm.
You did have other points that I agree with but not about how strange it is that Judy is put down despite being prey. There are other things people get put down for, despite being the race that holds power in society.
Yeah but she was at the top of her class and for some reason the police captain is still racist to her
I felt the angle had more to do with sexism, just using animals instead. Also, Bogo did warm up to her when she proved she was able to do the job.
It's actually a pretty accurate representation in many cases of the transition of women to the workplace. Particularly in the military and policeforce, there is a lot of question whether they will be able to handle the physical requirements. As women prove they can, most men are more than happy to have them there. It's when standards get lowered or they are allowed different standards that men start to get worried.
@@101jir it makes sense but their are other cops at the station that aren’t being discriminated against
That's honestly a far better way of looking at things. Especially with the baby talk and "cute" shit. You see patronization a lot with regards to autism cause the leading stereotype for years was that autism entirely annihilates your ability to learn and mature when in reality it's only social development.
@@Theagentofchaos-r5q Could you be more specific about which ones you would expect to experience discrimination? Just naming the animal is fine since they're mostly extras.
I love Zootopia as a fun cop film, but the themes of racism were written confusingly. We see Judy being looked down on more than we see the predators being discriminated against. Nick should have been the cop being looked down on with Judy getting a flashback. Or, better yet, keep the older script with the shock collars and just make Nick less egocentric, with the right amount of lightheartedness. It feels like Disney overcorrected when the more serious script wasn't liked. Disney should take risks and see what happens.
In a way, they did take a risk; this was a non-musical (which usually don't do as well for them) with themes of racism that most companies don't do now.
Personally I think Judy was looked down upon because of her height and the fact that she was from the country.
@@OpticalSorcerer That’s a good point. But, they could’ve taken it further by making Nick the main character with Judy having her own struggles as a side plot. I think it would make the movie so much more interesting with Nick being a predator.
@@k1ttkw1snky69 That's a fair POV. I do think it was important to have Judy be the main character since she's the one who has to overcome the implicit bias/racism from her trauma. You'll notice that despite his own trauma, Nick never actually hates prey or holds anything against them (he did have microaggressions with patronizing Judy and petting Bellweather).
@@OpticalSorcerer That’s true. Nick did have some micro aggressions, but never truly hated prey.
But that's the thing about racism: it quite often _does_ go both ways. Sometimes one side or the other gets an advantage during certain times.
While I think a lot of people look at it from the angle of racism, it actually works better from the angle of sexism. _Much_ better. Judy is presumed to be weak and incapable of handling herself physically as a cop. Nick is treated very harshly even as a child because predators are presumed to be untrustworthy in prey organizations.
More than anything, I think the message was women can handle themselves, and by and large society doesn't have to be afraid of most men. But this put a spin on it that made it much more palatable.
Honestly, if they were going to lean into the racism narrative, they should have made Judy racist at least a lot more racist, maybe make her not even talk to Nick at first, and she learns the error of her Ways, or they go with the original plot
She _is_ racist though? That's the point of her character arc. She does harm to people around her, including friends, because despite her good intentions, she still believes the stereotypes.
The movie was better off being subtle than trying to smash the audience's face in with the moral message.
@@ReddwarfIV i’m saying they should’ve leaned into it more
@@NerfAutistbut I think part of the point was to show that people need not be overtly racist to cause problems. Even those who think they’re above racism can be prejudiced, which is how Judy was. Some people have what’s called implicit bias, and they might not be aware of that until it becomes problematic, and the point was to show what that looks like.
@@superfightingrobotmkx7776The concept of „implicit bias“ is modern academic nonesense. If there was no racist intention, then racism didn’t take place. plus it creates the idea that minorities are just to fragile about their own position that they couldn’t tell right from wrong which is really insulting to minorities themselves. In the 90s with movies like Cats don’t Dance writers still understood how racism really worked by making the characters human without a perpetual victimhood even if people actively look down on them. this ultimately leads to a stronger message at the point when they do find activ acceptance in their environment.
@@TOK150 yeah that’s pretty much what I was trying to say I just lack the brain toformulate it
I think that Robocop still fits the bill for a Cyborg police officer despite his tragic death that caused his birth not just because he stands to uphold the law and keep the public trust but because he is by definition Human he is by nature that and makes me feel bad for him either way he’s the more ideal cop than some but if not there’s always Judge Dread.
Thank god my comment is still here
Okay, the bit about the crushing on increasingly bad canine role models had me cackling.
Death can get it tho fr fr fr
Only character I stan is Finnick I don't care what anybody says
And that makes the movie worse because he's hardly in the movie!
@@AFoodiesWorld And it sucks because he did seem to have a slightly larger role in the original version, but then they just got Deebo from Friday to pull up to the recording studio for 3 seconds.
@@AFoodiesWorld It makes me wonder if John Lasseter interfered too much with this film, since he completely interfered with Brave?????
Let us not forget, parents took their kids to see the movie in theaters and had to sit with a bunch of grown adults in fur suits.
when, at the premiere ?
Do you say that as a bad thing? I’d say that’s more of a “who cares” thing
The immediate thought that it’s wrong is your first go to, chances are it’s not good
@@pemanilnoob it's really weird though
@@pugpartyproductions9499 eh, not to me personally
I have a lot of issues with this video's takes. Like a lot a lot.
-I'm pretty sure the discrimination thing for Judy was their attempt at portraying intersectionality, but not gender. Rather, there is another type of bigotry in that animals are stereotyped according to human cultural associations (sheep are seen as innocent, the Whole Joke was "wolf in sheep's clothing" for the antagonist; rabbits are thought of as small, weak, and... ahem, "family oriented"). The point being, race isn't the only source of implicit bias.
-Predators being largely criminal and what you describe as "stupid" follows from spending their whole lives economically deprived and socially discriminated against. That is kind of the point. Also how it works in real life - discrimination and lack of socioeconomic mobility makes people less likely to be educated (and thus have lower IQ) and more likely to turn to crime.
-I'm pretty sure that's a highly uncharitable reading of Nick. Narcissist? Really? That's a reach. I'm also pretty sure the bit about kids being mean to him is also meant to be an allusion to a persistent background of racially charged bullying considering the setting, no? Also, the whole bit about him turning his life around and joining the police isn't a problem. It's good. That's in line with the ethics of rehabilitative justice, which is the only acceptably progressive foundation of justice alongside reconstruction. A lot of your anti-Nick takes seem to come from some essentialization of his character ("liar", "career criminal", etc) that is frankly pretty reactionary.
-Also, to begin with, this whole moralistic framing is incredibly strange. If you've taught your kids to derive their morals from "a fictional character did it once so that automatically justifies it without further thought" and vice versa, you've failed as a parent to instill in them critical thinking. People should have ethical frameworks that lead to broader considerations, not just intuitively decide "this is inherently good" "this is inherently bad" or see the depiction of an action as automatic broad endorsement. It's the "seeing something in fiction normalizes it" argument, but if that is actually true, then something in society is wrong because no one should be thinking "well if one person does it, it should be considered a prescriptive social norm without context or nuance". That's like... Kant brain, and Kantian ethics is godawful in ways it would take me another hour to explain.
You can argue that a lot of the execution is flawed, and I certainly would, but I really don't think the underlying themes or ethos of this movie are bad... other than whitewashing cops. The institution of policing is fundamentally broken and this is way too nice to the idea of cops.
Also, people can like characters who aren't moral paragons or whatever, come on. I can't imagine living a life where fictional thirst is somehow arbitrarily restricted by moral judgment. Let people have their problematic blorbos, dammit.
Preach. I thought this was going to be a screed about copaganda and how you can't really deal with systemic problems by taking out a few bad actors as seemingly portrayed in the film, but I was profoundly disappointed.
@@michaelbenson5677 Oh yeah. Absolutely. That was what I was hoping for because that would have been fair and accurate, but it turned out to mostly be seething hatred for the characters and misrepresentation of what the actual plot events were. I asked friends who actually remembered the movie better, and half of the plot points being criticized kind of never happened.
Yeah this guy can have good takes, but when it comes to this movie most of it is a reach. Like Judy being discriminated against for being a woman even though the movie made it very clear she was looked down upon because of how people perceived rabbits. Also that Nick being a narcissist comment. Does he even know what narcissism is?
@@sneakysneakyraccoon8538 Then again, most people have no idea what narcissism means...
Oh man, been waiting for this video after you briefly brought it up in your Hercules video. It’ll be interesting to hear someone not talk positive about this movie since after 7 years, people are already starting to change their views on this movie, and for good/obvious reasons.
I’m glad I’m not alone on this.
Nah the movie was pretty good and thankfully most still can see that
@@Jdudec367imo it was overall good, just that the message was very poorly executed, and that's honestly understandable given how much the movie was revised and rewritten during development.
@@Jdudec367I never said it was bad. No. It’s still a good movie. It’s just that the whole message on ✨Racism✨ gets more unsubtle the more you watch it
@@Jenna_Talia I dunno...I still disagree, it wasn't just about racism tbh but all kinds of prejudice.
Interested to see what your take is on this.
The worldbuilding is weird because Nick is treated badly for being a predator and Judy for being prey but the Lion Mayor and Chief Bogo are not. So it's almost like the predator prey thing isn't really the problem in itself, but the intersection of the stereotypes about their species with their job/role in society.
But that breaks the simple metaphor. Why does Bellwhether stoke up the prey/predator thing when it's likely that the main thing keeping herself from the top position is that she's a sheep?
And if predator/prey dynamics are a metaphor for race dynamics, what on earth do the species represent? Family reputation?
It's really not thought out well. (And I don't hate the film, though I'm definitely finding things I dislike as time goes on)
While I do like Zootopia, I do get your criticism...
There are parts of the story-telling that doesn't quite make sense; and that's usually a sign of a troubling development behind the scenes.
Also, as for furries, they always have Robin Hood and Maid Marian. Two Disney fox characters, one who's a thief with a heart of gold, and the other who's loving are caring for others
4:16 i love that LITERAL DEATH is the most respectable person in the lineup of dudes to simp for, it's so funny
Do I sumo for Death because he’s a fit wolf man or because it’s Death?
….yes.
I feel like the ‘Bogo is mad at Judy’ and ‘Judy keeps breaking the law to get what she wants’ things could be easily tied together. Imagine in the jungle confrontation scene (or maybe a new scene) that Bogo finds out Judy had been bending the laws in various ways. He could still confront her and be angry, but this time he would say something like “We have a responsibility to follow the law just like everyone else, if not even MORE than everyone else.” This would more reasonably explain why Bogo would be trying to stop Judy’s pursuit of the case, because he would be upset about how Judy was breaking the law and using her position as the police to get away with it. This would make a much better message for kids about personal responsibility to do things ethically, *and* to hold the police accountable to their position of power/their actions.
This doesn’t fix the broader issues like the awkward racism allegory, but it’s a start.
Well, this should certainly be an interesting watch.
I thought it was obvious they hated her for being weak.
The police think strength is all that matters in being a cop, because that means violence is all that matter in being a cop. Like in reality, because cops always get away with excessive uses of force.
Judy as a cop learns to be clever from the Fox and learns to not assume all criminals are the same.
But she’s not weak she beat a rhino in a boxing match
@@Theagentofchaos-r5qwith surprise one time, you think he beat him all the time like that?
I think the idea is that Judy is discriminated against because she’s a small animal who works as a police officer specifically. Notice how before she joins, all the officers are much larger than her, and are animal species that are seen as tougher than the supposedly weak rabbits. The idea here is that every species has some stereotype imposed on them, even the prey species. So while prey generally have more privilege than predators, they can still be stereotyped out of certain things depending on their species or size.
Yeah but it still ruins the metaphor
3:45 what were the original draft it’s completely understandable that Nick would be a mean-spirited jerk he got taken away from his father at a young age he’s constantly shocked if he feels an emotion and he’s being discriminated against constantly.
i think the movie implies some kind of "speciesism" but for rabits being lower animals or smth or maybe its the fact that she is from a rural place? still doesnt seem very well writen but i guess its something
Could be the classism of rural vs urban, could be a subtle narrative for ableism as well because a small species being a stand-in for little people. Could even function as a narrative for religious discrimination, since bunnies, like Catholics, are known for prodigious reproduction.
Thanks for this.
I won't defend the main plot, or crimes, but to give my take on the Judy-police dynamic: I never considered it could be because she was female/herbivore, it seemed to me that she was discouraged and kept away from "real" police work because they all considered her not physically capable, as she's so much smaller/vulnerable than them (ignoring that there's a tiny town, where she's giant).
Still, the movie was going for a more "Action Police" theme.
I'm surprised there was never a moment where she was confronted with a massive animal and just could do anything, or at least a scene where a giant was trapped and she kindly-moused a solution, given that, "rabbits can't be cops", start.
Aren't a lot of the problems with the movie also things that generally happen in real life? Like law enforcement being hypocrites, law enforcement _and the laws themselves_ being biased against certain demographics, the rich celebrating themselves making token gestures toward equality while perpetuating and profiting from the systems that caused the inequality in the first place...
good point!!!!
Right, but the police here are the good guys, so kids might grow up thinking that this stuff is normal and ok to do.
That’s the problem with this movie
@@sebastiansepulveda547 I'm sensing a pattern that outside of fairytales, Disney struggles to tell a story that appeals to both kids and adults at the same time.
For example Disney's more mature films like Pocahontas, Hunch Back, Tarzan, usually have tonal shift problems whenever they try to be funny.
I think Zootopia's plot would have more focus if it was ether mostly for kids or mostly for adults????
7:29 I don’t really think he hated her, at least I didn’t get that impression per say. I found it weird Judy immediately thought she’d be put on a case when she is a brand new recruit? Like to me it makes sense she’d start off doing the parking tickets as it’s a low level job. I think he viewed her as an overzealous recruit and that’s why he couldn’t stand her. At least that’s my theory.
Only thing i got from this video is that Judy is just a Fed 🗿
I'm afraid if zootopia 2 turns into copaganda
@JohnpaulEzeamama Still better than acab brainrot
Cats Don’t Dance is better in my opinion. Danny is an adorable protagonist cat.
Zootopia was made for me... Here is what I have beef with.
Item-1 is how the police actually behave. It really peeves me that the first mistake was the idea that Judy was discriminated against "because she is a prey animal". It was because she is small, and unable to keep up with the rough and gritty actual police officers.
I work as a security guard, private security. If you are lucky, your post will require you to eat grit for breakfast, take crap from your boss on the way into work, take MORE crap from the client when you GET to work, and then require you to be hungry for more before lunch... and that's while working a 12 hour shift.
And most security companies love hiring ex-cops because doing all that is like a VACATION for them!
In gritty, dangerous, and/or hard environments, there is a kind of brotherhood that forms. People share in the burdens and expect others to be there to share with them, easing the burden and reducing the danger. They want to make sure that the guy operating the big machine, so the little guy suspended a dozen floors off the ground can reach that tiny hole and turn the small screw just enough to secure the high-voltage will-kill-you-if-literally-ANYTHING-goes-wrong wire... isn't arriving to work drunk on the job.
And the same goes with police forces. They take crap that most of us don't want to IMAGINE exists. And the thanks they get for it is... well, just watch the news, they don't celebrate the good cops anymore, they're too busy pasting up the images of all the bad ones they can find. Who cares if it's a cop in Canada, it's getting broadcasted everywhere in the US because WHO CARES!
And Chief Bogo, if he was written right, knows that!
He'd know that this scrawny little thing is going to dry up like a turd and blow away within less than a year!
Trying to get her off the force, or at least force her into submission enough to BEHAVE is doing his department a FAVOR, if not outright SAVING A FEW LIVES!
Item-2 Bellwether (now that I've actually Googled how to spell that stupid name), Let's list the crimes of Bellwether and compare them to Judy...
Bellwether is guilty of...
Hate crimes, False imprisonment, Drug dealing, Usurpation, Public endangerment, Attempted Murder, Attempted genocide, Terrorism,
Judy is guilty of...
Abandoning her post, Harassing a citizen, Endangering of citizens, Insubordination, Illegal recording and blackmailing of a citizen, Entering a private property without a warrant, manufacturing a probable cause, Entering a private property without a warrant using the assistance of a citizen without authority, Searching a vehicle without a warrant, Coercion of a citizen, Damaging property of the museum,
About the trains. The "lab" didn't change tracks before being on a collision course... it was GOING to be hit by that train anyway. There is NO REASON to believe that any SANE PERSON would do that (what person caring enough about their safety would wear a hazmat suit in a drug-den and NOT place the car on a safe track?) So moving the lab without switching it's track was a good and safe bet... it's just that Disney Magic intervened and changed it into a dangerous one without thinking about the consequences of that.
Of Judy's crimes, she might get about five to ten years in prison.
Of Bellwether's crimes, she might get THE DEATH PENALTY.
Of the two, Judy is the more likely to be up for pardon.
Also, very little of the evidence against Bellwether was illegally obtained and almost NONE of it was a violations specifically of Bellwether's rights, so most, if not all of it, would hold up in court.
Item-3 Given Disney's deep dive into Woke ideologies, Zootopia makes a lot more sense as a kind of "here's where we're going but we haven't quite lost our minds yet" mentality. That's one thing that makes Zootopia so popular, it's the story of a plucky young person, pursuing her dreams and finding obstacles that she didn't realize would be there, some of which aren't outside, but inside. If nothing else, Zootopia is about seeing the evil within oneself and confronting it.
Had me until woke ideologies. Sorry you can’t tolerate lgbt people yet. Maybe you’ll get there one day
@@john52933 tolerate? What more do I need to tolerate before enough is enough?! You choose to jump off a cliff and then condemn everyone who doesn't do the same! It is not I that needs to change and I am sorry that you feel that I do.
Damn, Judy might be somewhat of a dirty cop
@@jaypee116 I think I saw a Film Theory about the war crimes committed in the COD series... or something. The final conclusion was simply that... the winners of war don't get punished (as badly) for their own war crimes, only the losers of a war get punished for their war crimes. Perhaps something similar is in Zootopia?
@@Arcticgreen What has been asked of you that you feel is a step too far, to make you feel "woke" is a bad thing?
I think the crux of the issue is that the discrimination in the movie doesn't make sense if it were a case of racism, but that's the point really - it doesn't fit because it's not racism, not sexism. There are clearly multiple layers of prejudice in the city - against predators, but also against Judy for being a really tiny prey animal not known for their ferocity. Judy was not trying to prove that she could "be a successful prey animal in a world where she's in the dominant social class", she's trying to prove that she could be an effective cop despite her *major* size disadvantage. Being a prey animal does not help when she's competing against a rhino for physical strength.
It's funny that they spent so much time treating her like trash by judging her by THEIR standards (big and tough = ALL that matters in an officer) when her diminutive size would allow her to maneuver through areas that would be a major no-go for the supposed 'superior' members of the force (see, chasing mice bandits through their own turf without looking like a two-bit Godzilla knockoff)
12:08 Nick didn't become a criminal because a bunch of 5 year olds were mean to him as a kid. It's implied in the movie and even more so in the book that Nick and his parents were victims of racism their entire lives. Those kids muzzling him was likely the straw that broke the camels back
She wasn't being discriminated against because she was a prey animal, the entire point of contention was the force's bias against such a small animal joining them even though there are places in Zootopia that the big ones wouldn't be able to go to (see: the smaller mammals) because of the risk of causing collateral damage while chasing a perp
Honestly, the whole thing with Judy as the protagonist and treated poorly for...being upper-class by other upper-class people...kind of reminds me of the problem I had with Naruto as a protagonist. He had a very similar thing going where the story seemed to be trying to portray him as a character struggling to succeed in a world where people were just born more gifted than others and how unfair that could be. Only for him to end up having been born the most gifted?? The son of a Hokage revered as a hero and a near extinct Clan, not to mention a Jinchuriki, and even got one of the best teachers a ninja could ask for in one of the Sannin.
Nah both made sense. Naruto really isn`t the most gifted, him being the son of the Hokage meant really nothing for him and being a Uzumaki was his only net positive, the jinchuriki is at best a mixed bag and double edged sword, and he had to work to even get Jiraiya as a teacher too that`s the thing.
@jaydenc367 Thats just wrong. His tailed beast power saved him like 20 times in situations where any other ninja would have met their end, and thats just one example of how the story contradicts itself.
@@hardboiled2987 No it isn't wrong. Eh did it? A lot of those times he was in those situations to begin with because he was a Jinchuriki. And no the story doesn't contradict itself.
@@Jdudec367
Naruto runs out of chakra
Naruto almost gets killed
''no i wont give up!!''
kurama comes out
infinite chakra
beats bad guy
this happens like at least a good 15 times in the show.
@@hardboiled2987 He never truly ran out of chakra.
No lmao, Kurama helped at times but it wasn't 15 times, let's see....it helped him beat Pain, he fought Orochimaru but didn't beat him with Kurama, he lost to Sasuke the first time even with Kurama, hm....what other bad guys did he beat with Kurama? It helped him beat Gaara when he used some Chakra but he mostly used his own stuff and never ran out of chakra there.
I’m a simple man, I see a 4shame video, I watch it. Simple
I really appreciate it!
(2:43) Dang! They just stole your bunny spy girl to make their own spy bunny!
Also, your bunny girl looks pretty cute. 😊
That's a fair take.
I see it as being a similar case to Raya and the Last Dragon - in that the message is completely muddled. Although unlike Raya, I enjoy watching Zootopia. At least it's not boring.
Why are you ignoring that they "hate her" cause she's a bunny and smaller animals are not supposed to be in specific power roles? lmao. I don't think the whole racism metaphor is just about prey/predators but also about the different animals. The very first point of the movie is about her going against her family and society when she decides to be a cop even tho she's a rabbit. That also explains why the other animals can't stand her, cause they think she's not supposed to be there.
Yeah but she got to the top of her class
Not sure I can get down with some of these takes. If you didn't like it, you didn't like it, and that's fine, but personally, I think this movie did a better job demonstrating implicit bias better than most movies made for adults.
Ok where to start?
Not defending Zootopia but you have several facts wrong and as for realistic depictions of law enforcement this is a MOVIE…I watched Elementar…the modern Sherlock Holmes set in NY…and one episode showed the NYOD making a deal with a criminal to save innocent lives…guess what? THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN…hate to tell you but if that episode happened today those people would FIE just like you will be charged if you are in the car with someone caught DUI
Anyway back to Zootopia
I think the thing between Judy and Bogo isn’t the whole prey thing but her size and perceived strength…I myself am short and look youthful despite being in my 30s and people constantly talk down to me because they think I’m a kid…Judy is a small rabbit while Bogo and literally every other cop is 5 times bigger and stronger than her…his bias is with her appearing so weak despite passing the training…that and being a rookie he doesn’t think she will last…reason he gives her the assignment after SHE agrees to find the otter…he is the guy in charge who is trying to juggle cases along with this string of attacks and like many those attacks that can’t be solved easily sit on the back burner while the seemingly more pressing cases get priority treatment…meanwhile she promises the otter her husband will be found which puts the PD in an awkward situation because if she fails the otter could sue or speak out painting the PD in a bad light
Now Jusy does manipulate the situation several times along with tricking Nick but again this is a movie…plus she is under a time crunch and Nick deliberately delays her work which almost costs her her job
The mafia boss thing (think those are shrews) you got backwards…Judy and Nick almost die because Nick crossed the boss by selling home a rug made from a skunk but…and like in real life you don’t cross the mafia…but they are saved because earlier when Judy was chasing the weasel she saved the boss’ daughter from being crushed by that donut so he spares their lives in gratitude…and the whole Godfather cliche thing
As for Nick he was traumatized after being bullied as a kid and he comes out and says he and him mom didn’t have much meaning poverty…forget predictor vs prey for a minute and think about people who have been bullied…some became so depressed they took their own lives…Nick turned to crime to get by in the world like some people do in the real world
Disney has never really hammered morals into movies and while this might be a weak attempt at showing prejudice it does show don’t judge a book by its cover…someone weak might be stronger than you think…rough exteriors don’t always mean horrible people…someone could be a wolf in sheep’s clothing pretending to be nice and helpful but with anterior motives…etc
The son in the credits was just supposed to be the concert that got put on hold because of the conflict and while Judy made things worse the media pushed her for answers and the sheep helping Bellweather was one of them deliberately trying to make things worse
If you want to argue morals go look at MLP FIM…I mean the infamous Lesson Zero episode shows kids cheating and lying about it are fine if you get your friends to rally behind you but in A Horse and Pony Show they see fibbing to try and do something nice for someone you look up to is terrible and will get you in to NIG trouble so don’t even think about it…there are tons of mixed up lessons and yet the fandom is still strong as ever
These movies and shows are just pretend…animals trains and cars don’t talk…toys don’t come to life when you leave the room…and most depictions if real world things are rarely accurate…even in normal shows and movies directed towards adults this happens…creative liberties are taken to fill time and add drama…unrealistic stunts like shooting a lock don’t actually work…and as mentioned above depictions of law enforcement don’t reflect what actually goes on because it is just a show or movie and they want to keep the plot going and possibly provide a happy or at least satisfying ending that might be the polar opposite of what would actually happen
Anyway those are my thoughts…one of my favorite movies but I don’t read into deep…these are meant to be entertainment not something to use to teach a class and I enjoy the entertainment factor with the visuals and music and story…prejudice might be put on a little thick but I can say the same for selfishness and stupidity in more recent movies like Ralph Breaks the Internet Toy Story 4 and Frozen 2…I can also relate to Judy constantly being overlooked and having to speak up to be taken seriously and also Nick with people constantly staring at me because of my appearance…not a great feeling when people look at you like you are an alien from Planet X because they think asking is rude but staring you down is acceptable
Just my opinion
Also I think they didn't like Judie and felt she wouldn't be a good fit was cause of how small she is. I mean, all the other Prey cops are like, big people. Plus it isn't uncommon for like, the maverick cop, or whatever, who breaks all the rules but gets away with it, is often the hero. Look at House from well, House. Dude is a doctor who does repeaed potential fellonies and risky treatments to save people, and rarely faces consequences.
Judy uses Nick and shes a jerk. Shes the bad guy let a man blackmail a woman to do as he wants for selfish reasons then see hiw fast the movie gets pulled.
The way I've always interpreted why Judy seems to be discriminated against even though she's a prey animal and prey animals are on top, is that Judy is a metaphor for like, being Irish-American or something - yeah there's a history of stereotyping and prejudice, but in the modern context Irish-Americans are also very much a subset of being white. I figured Zootopia has a similar thing with certain prey animals; some of them came to Zootopia poor, distrusted, and with some degree of cultural stereotyping, but ultimately it isn't on the same level as the racism that predators experience.
While some of the points you made are completely made up (for example I never got the impression that the prey were the dominant species considering all the police force and even the mayor were all predators who were both literally and socially looking down upon Judy for being a rabbit, or the fact the Judy only befriended Mr. Big was because she saved his daughter’s life earlier in the movie) I do still agree that with your main argument that Judy isn’t a good role model.
I personally see it as the prey trying to flip the power dynamics before realizing “no, they should live in harmony n’ shit.” -nick wilde circa 2016
But I agree Judy is a terrible role model I hate cops
not me rewinding and pausing so i can look at 4shame's fursona with great and lasting delight
I’m glad ya like her!
I liked that Judy was descriminated against; it gives the lesson that racism is a lot more complex than most people think it is.
Judy is descriminated against because she is a rabbit going into a profession that is pretty much exclusively made up of large mammals, both preditor and prey. Had Judy moved to Zootopia to open a greengrocer, for example, she would not have faced the same prejudice as she would have been doing what bunnies are shown to be stereotypically expected to do; provide food. It is the action of stepping out of 'her' lane that causes the problem. This is why Chief Bogo doesn't like her; his preconcieved notion of rabbits as a species causes him to expect Judy to be incapable as serving as a police officer.
A couple of (rather extreme) examples from history:
- If you put someone from Ireland and someone from England next to each other, it would be impossible to tell which was which. This did not stop the English from literally letting the Irish people starve to death during the Potato Famine (1845-1852). Millions died. The English Government (who ruled the entirety Ireland at the time) gave little to no help because the Irish were seen as lazy, stupid and incapable, and if they were dying it was their own fault. The Famine itself was even seen as a blessing by the English, as it would reduce the population and allow for the modernization of Irish agriculture.
- If you put a Tutsi person and a Hutu person next to each other, it would be impossible to tell which was which.This did not stop the Rwandan Genocide (7 April - 15 July 1994) saw the murder of over a million Tutsi people by not only Hutu milita, but also ordinary Hutu people - often people who knew the victims. 75% of the Tutsi population is thought to have been killed.
The stereotype of Irish people being stupid still exists to this day, as does the stereotype of Chinese people being good at maths, and the stereotype of Native American people being 'noble savages'. (These are not my opinions - they are just examples!!). I could continue this list probably indefinately, but I don't really want to.
Racism is a lot more than black and white, and I think that gets forgotten a lot in media. Racism is a whole colour wheel, and that needs to be remembered.
Definition of racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
Definition of ethnic group: a community or population made up of people who share a common cultural background or descent.
I dare to disegree, Theres a VERY CLEAR reason why Bogo hated Judy - shes a bunny. Thats why others make fun of her as Well, thats the whole point of that, because shes a small bunny others dont recognise as strong enough to be a cop.
And prey animals arent on top at the start either. I mean the mayor is a flippin lion. The whole “basically racism” thing gets into play much later after they make fun of Judy ect.
But the whole point it ruins the metaphor
Thank you for making this video. I'm so tired of people praising this movie because of its world building without acknowledging it's flaws.
Like season 1 of the Legend of Korra, this movie tries to convey that if the heros defeat a villain that is making use of a prejudice, then suddenly that prejudice is no longer a big deal.
If someone is going to write a story about somthing like a prejudice then they need to show there is always work that need to be done.
I can't imagine anyone defending that lunatic Amon! It's no wonder the Equalists collapsed so quickly.
I dont get why its called zootropolis in some places, like metropolis means something completely different than utopia and the whole point of the name is that its supposed to be an animal utopia
oh wow this was a long time coming. i remember when u mentioned this in the hercules vid and the community post where u asked for opinions on judy like half a year ago. u pretty much condensed all my thoughts on the movie perfectly
It makes me wonder if John Lasseter interfered too much with this film, since he completely interfered with Brave?????
13:06 OK all of this stuff makes sense but kids don’t read that deeply into stuff. They’ll just think it’s a funny movie. So you don’t have to be so concerned that it’s gonna make them think that that stuff is OK because they’re not gonna think about it, and read into it deeply like adults would.
the problem is that it won't be the only time they will see that. And kid understand quickly
@@RamdomLolola mmm, it’s kind of hard to make allegories for racism. Isn’t it…
@@lilhedgehog8576 i was more speaking about things like Juddy expecting to be in high rank in police force from day one, her making deal with mafia, illegally get information , use intimidation on several occasion, using illegal methods to get things her way, Basically she is entitle and corrupted, and she is supposed to be a role model for kids apparently
Huh, for once a reviewer who uses an animal character in his videos who is actually a furry
Tis true, 4shame is furry
@@4shame _le_ *gasp*
We could have got a Space Pug movie, but we didn't?! We do indeed live in the darkest timeline.
I do not approve of cynicism!
@@jeffreygao3956 but that would be cool
@@Theagentofchaos-r5q I somehow doubt it.
Great Video review on Zootopia and analysis of Zootopia and I pretty much agree with most of your points on the movie.
Can’t believe I used to love this movie but not anymore and I don’t hate it but I it had potential to be something very beautiful and unique but because of the story and characters, it turned out to be a huge letdown and a big disappointment for me.
I would stick with The Dino King Franchise, The Kung Fu Panda Franchise, Camp Cretaceous and The Sing Movies because those are way better than Zootopia in my opinion and not to mention other Disney movies that are way better like Wreck It Ralph and Big Hero 6 because those are way better than Zootopia.
I may not be the biggest fan of Zootopia but I still prefer it over the Frozen Franchise and Chicken Litte because I felt something.
I might make a video on this but great work on this and keep it up.
Video: Furries seriously, get yourself a higher class of man to simp for. I mean first a con man, and then another con man, and then a demon from hell, and then death.
Furries: I can fix them! :(
Its quite ironic, actually.
Zootopia was a movie I liked a ton as a kid. I had the DVD and everything. But rewatching it, it’s just boring
I love the idea of the dark dystopia movie. It would make a great teen/adult movie, once they adapted Nick into a better person
This feels like clickbait
Probably not, 4shame usually gives quite good reasoning to his theories.
Yeah this is an interesting take
@@kv1_t34Thanks! Admittedly this is more of a comedic video than usual but I do include what I think are valid reasons
I think it would have been better if it started in bunny hallow or wherever she came from.
Like imgaine instead of being put onto the missing animal whatever, she notices something or whatever while doing cop stuff in Bunny-Land and then notices more and more things that make her do an investigations much like old murder/police movies ramping up as the movie progresses leading to whatever it is which lead her to zootopia.
lol in the recommended under this video is a video praising this movie
If I were to recommend a franchise about town populated by anthropomorphic animals,
I would recommend Richard Scarry.
And also captain lazar Hawk
I’ve seen Zootopia twice, and I hated it both times. What I don’t get about this movie is just how awful the metaphor is. A predator needs to eat a rabbit or mouse or something in order to live. If it doesn’t do that, it wouldn’t be a predator. It would adapt to being something else, or it would fail to keep on surviving and go extinct. And yet all the predators-which are stand in for minorities which are NOT inherently dangerous-still have these violent instincts buried deep inside of them. Also, they are at the top of society, with the mayor being a lion for example, and yet they’re still the most likely to be discriminated against. Seriously, what even is this metaphor?
can u shut up with you dumb criticism it was a heart warming movie so shut up with your dumb criticism about the film it was a masterpice movie
Even though I like this movie, I respect your opinion and love to hear your point of view.
After re-watching the movie recently they discriminate against Judy due to her size and lack of quote unquote strength if you noticed even the other herbivores on the police force are animals like Rams elephants rhinos animals that have extreme physical strength and defenses.
I just noticed in that clip where the predators are getting in disguises, the wolf puts on a sheep's costume. I'm so dumb lol
Yeah this film was too preachy and broken writing so overrated and now theres a sequel announced yay... not 😑
Death the Wolf is just the best of both worlds
*He is hot.* ❤❤
He can get it. Simple as.
This movie is not good depiction of racism and honestly the only redeemable quality of this movie is the animation, the voice acting, the design but on social commentary they really suck. Also can we talk about when portraying racism in fantasy or fictional oppression they often use non human to make that comemntary on racism. When movie want to tackle the issue of racism using non human i think they should think twice before doing it and they should involve people who come from marginalized group. Zootopia, Balto and beastars they should never ever involving fictional oppression in their story
Beastars e Balto are about prejudice, not racism. I don't see how you saw racism in these 2 at all. But okay then. Lol
@@arthursemeghinigallo3336 Yes however some people can see or interpret it as allegory of racism. Let's start with balto he a wolfdog some people see that the reason he was discriminated because of his mixed heritage. Some mixed race people see themselve on balto. Then with beastars yes it's prejudice but racism is also part of prejudice too
While I love this movie, one argument I can bring up as to why it's not good for kids is that it expects kids to know what the heck case files and running plates are. I'm a grown-up and even I barely have any idea of what those could mean!
I'm just curious to see your personal opinion about this film.
I think the movie was made for furrys to see how a "furry world" would look like
can u shut up with you dumb criticism no one want to hear it thinki zootopia was a heart warm movie and i loved it u are just a shame humen if u dislike this movie it was a masterpice film!
I'm pretty sure the writers who once wrote for The Simpsons wrote this. Maybe that's why it's bad for kids.
The part about kids being mean to Nick wasn’t just light teasing. They literally muzzle him for the core reason they hate him for being a fox. That’s pretty intense. But you do make a lot of good points though.
My car got towed in an unfamiliar city and the cops were so unhelpful. I had to bum a ride from a man *as a woman in a strange place* but hey, he took me right to the towing place and didn't ask for favors.
14:12 the movie was made for furries.
Literally it
(In all actuality that is too small of a demographic but it was just for kids who see fluffy animals and get all happy and same for furries)
Facts
Judy is up there with Tenpenny in the "Realistic Interpretations of Police Officers" club!
FURRIES NOT SIMPING FOR THE WORST MALE ANTHRO CHARACTERS IN MEDIA CHALLENGE IMPOSSIBLE!
There's *Bandit* from Bluey.
(He is an adult character that did nothing wrong.)
Saberspark loves zootopia.
Schaffrillas thinks it’s decent
4 shame hates zootopia.
Well, every UA-camr Critic has different opinions.
Saberspark is a clueless normie and Schaffrillas is an overrated Disney shill.
Actually, Schaffrillas didn't like it... Because the racism metaphor doesn't work .
*(Also Schaffrillas hates twist villains and Zootopia has a twist villain.)*
@@TheDen-ec9xe That's objectively wrong.
Schaffrillas made multiple videos criticizing Disney. Did you watch his Big Hero 6 review??
After watching this video, i wonder what would you say about the entire story of Beastars?
TBF to Nick, a lotta people like smooth, slick hustlers and such
I think this review super missed the mark and had zero good points You clearly didn't pick up on any of the character motivations .
also BEASTARS is a worse story
I appreciate your complete lack of specifics!
He came back :0
Death simping is based though? Dude could smother me with his paws and Im not even a furry.
based
@@roachewy It comes naturally 🐺
Haven't watched this movie in forever but I wonder how much could've been improved by just swapping Judy and Nick's roles. Nick as an aspiring cop being discriminated against in the force, and Judy as a conwoman (nobody would suspect a prey animal, let alone such a tiny defenseless looking one). 🤷♀️ Ah well
…And here I thought it was Dawn Bellwether that was the soul reason Zootopia is a criminally overrated film.
What with ALL of her evil henchmen being visually appalling, octopus-eyed, Xenomorph-faced, fat wooly coat wearing horrors posing as rams in contrast to the other more humanoid anthros to expose her as the horrible twist villain even before her reveal, which in turn ruins the message of equal rights to kids by showing them that ALL sheep in the film are villains.
But Judy Hopps’ criminal record throughout the entire film flew over my head until just now!
A certified Disney dumpy.
Yeah 100% my life got ruined because of this movie I watched it as a kid and I looked up to the ANTAGONIST Judy Hops since I based my entire life off this character I have officially done every single thing that you said I shouldn’t do thinking it was right, man it’s almost like that kids don’t actually necessarily look up to the main character rather the message it brings I’m 12 btw and I don’t think I’m torturing people anytime soon because I saw a funny gag in a movie
You're not the only one who dislikes this movie dude. I do too.
I absolutely loved zootopia but don’t blame you for your take
Bogo hates Judy because he sees her as small rabbit mascot who get jer job in police job only because mayor wanted to promote diversity and boost his campaign. That's why he gives her ticket job at the beginning.
That’s certainly a valid interpretation
"Who was this movie even made for?"
Furries, isn't it obvious?
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