Was "CALVINISM" introduced by Augustine?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, gives a history lesson on the soteriological influence of Augustine and the Reformers in contrast to the Earlier church leaders and apologists.
For more please visit www.soteriology101.com
For more on Dr Ken Wilson's work: • Did the Early Church F...
Calvinists make the mistake that if we don't adhere to the belief, we're Arminianists.
Nothing could be further from the truth. How about the word BOTH. Yes God chose us, yes God pursued us, yes God died for us because he loved us, now we just must receive the gift. Both.
How can Jesus be at 100% man and 100% God? Pretty confusing unless you use the word BOTH.
Who wrote the book of Romans Paul or God.., who lives your Christian Life you or God? The word BOTH is huge when it comes to understanding the bible. Especially when understanding salvation.
All glory to my Lord and Savior. Jesus christ.
After being a student of cults and for almost 50 years, I can tell you that anytime you go outside of the Bible to later works (i.e. "Book of Mormon," Watchtower publications, "Science and Health," the "Apocrypha," "Divine Principle," "Dianetics," etc.) you get heresy. It's amazing that those who scream "Sola Scriptura" the loudest have to appeal to The Institutes and Augustianism to get their doctrine. Using the Bible only will not support what they teach.
Dave Mitchell that’s only half true. Adding or taking away books is heresy . BUT many more heretics don’t add to the Bible. They misinterpret . Which can be sola scriptura .
The only way to remain apart from heresy is to obey those who came before us. Which is where the tradition comes in!
Irene-of-meteora obey those who came before us?
That’s a very dangerous way to live and is extremely unbiblical and far from the truth.
We are to obey the Word of God which is out only authority.
Those who came before us are not our authority.
Were they supposedly more enlightened?
This goes both ways by the way.
But in support of Biblical truth and against reformed theology and to tout point, those who came before us save Augustine did NOT believe reformed theology if you were to use that as a bit of comfort and not as your authority.
Aaron Pilkey it’s actually the safest route.
The whole point of obeying those who came before is to retain a continuity. To have unity not only spatially but temporally. Unchanging, never adding or subtracting.
It’s like this: we are always looking to the scriptures with lenses. Calvinists through theirs, yours through yours, everyone has one. The problem with sola scriptura is the lense. We can’t divorce our ideology from what we read.
Si what’s the best lense? The church that has kept continuity both spatially and temporally.
I think you could ask yourself the same question. Are you more enlightened than those who came before you?
I think a lot of Protestants unwittingly Mae this mistake . With the use of all the technology, libraries , internet information and others all these people think they’re closer to God than the centuries before
Irene-of-meteora Fallible man is never the safest route.
The Word of God says the Holy Spirit will lead you and guide you into all truth.
It does NOT say people who came before you will lead you and guide you into all truth.
JOHN 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
It doesn’t say seminaries and professors and theologians and pastors and books will lead us and guide us into all truth.
It says HE will.
If we rely on others to lead us and guide us MORE THAN the scriptures do then we will be easily deceived and led astray.
Yes obviously God will still use those things but they will be SECONDARY to supplement His word and not primary to supplant it.
**We have to ask ourselves, are our doctrines based on the doctrines of great theologians or are they based solely on God’s word?
Do we take the doctrines we’ve formed to the scriptures and then twist the context and meaning of passages in order to make them support the doctrines we’ve read in a book?
Or do we start with the bible instead of finishing with it?
Comparing everything against scripture and not the other way around.
God may still use those means and speak through them but not anymore than what couldn’t otherwise be learned from diligent study by oneself of God’s word.
No matter how educated someone is they can still be blinded to the most basic truths of the gospel.
Not to say they don’t still know deeper truths but I think we can sometimes blind ourselves to further knowledge of Christ by refusing to be open to listening to the Holy Spirit and instead choose to listen to men before us and “great theologians” of the past.
The only problem with that is if an ignorant theologian learned it from an ignorant theologian who learned it from an ignorant theologian and on and on and on.
So now we have a chain of hundreds of theologians who all believe the same thing because they based it off their study of “giants of the faith” before them instead of actually basing it off of what the word of God says.
They base it off of what someone ELSE thinks what the word of God says instead of what the word of God ACTUALLY says.
The Holy Spirit will reveal the same truths to each and every person no matter who they are.
He won’t reveal more to someone just because they’ve studied for 8 years and have a PhD.
There’s no spiritual truths that are only reserved for people who go to seminary and if you don’t go then God will never show you.
Irene-of-meteora The lens I try and read God’s Word through is the lens of Jesus Christ being the centre as it’s all about Him.
I try and keep these words in my head as I read and I base it off of three scriptures:
OF HIM/TO HIM/THROUGH HIM/FOR HIM/BY HIM
ROMANS 11:36
36 For OF HIM, and THROUGH HIM, and TO HIM, ARE ALL THINGS: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
*********************************
COLOSSIANS 1:16
16 For BY HIM were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created BY HIM, AND FOR HIM:
17 And he is before all things, and BY HIM all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that IN ALL THINGS HE MIGHT HAVE THE PREEMINENCE.
19 FOR IT PLEASED THE FATHER THAT IN HIM SHOULD ALL FULNESS DWELL;
*********************************
HEBREWS 2:10
10 For it became him, FOR WHOM ARE ALL THINGS, AND BY WHOM ARE ALL THINGS, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Read through the lens of Christ.
Read through the lens of the Father’s heart.
Let the Holy Spirit do it’s job and lead you and guide you into all truth.
Why would these men of the past be more enlightened?
That argument holds zero weight.
I am happy to see the content of my "Beyond Augustine" documentary being promoted and making some grounds in the Academic world. Praise God!
No need for insults Jay!
Thanks for loving so many,Jesse!Love your boldness and work on a street level!!🇨🇱🤠❗️
Weak sauce @jessemorrell🤦🏽♂️
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo get your own channel for heaven's sake.
Debunking catholicism
I'm more blessed than mary
Proof = Luke 11:27-28
27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
In Luke 11:27 that random woman LITERALLY said Jesus your mother is Blessed, but are Lord Jesus LITERALLY said Believers are more Blessed than mary. Amen and Amen
_________________________
CHRIST alone
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
_________________________
Work of God =
John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
_________________________
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach
Paul allows bishops to get marry, but catholic church goes against paul.
Now these catholic will give a Verses from 1 Corinthians7 to say that paul gave the advice to stay unmarried. But they will not tell you that the same chapter they quote says 1 Corinthians 7:28 "even if you do marry, you have not SINNED". The passage literally says "young women, young men" and a bishop is supposed to be a Church ELDER. Mic drop
_________________________
Jesus said Matthew 23:9
9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
And also said Holy Father to Heavenly Father= John 17:11
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
Jesus said call no one Father but still catholics call *pope holy father.
Sad
_________________________
Whenever a catholic argue about mary being the mother of God
Use this to defeat the argument.
Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
Matthew 12:46-50
46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.”
48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”.
Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.”
John 19:26-27
26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. ( Jesus basically said John is the son of mary, and mary is the mother of John from that time onwards).
By the way sarah is the mother of all proof=Galatians 4:21-26.
_________________________
We should not pray to apostles
Romans 1:25
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Acts 10:25-26
25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.”
Acts 14:15
15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them,
Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Revelation 22:8-9
8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."
Colossians 2:18
18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
You cannot go to Father through saints nor mary, you can only go to the Father through Lord Jesus Christ= John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Holy Spirit intercedes for us=Romans 8:26
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And CHRIST as well=Romans 8:34
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Hebrews 7:25
25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
It's Christ and Holy Spirit who intercedes for us not apostles
_________________________
There is only one Mediator between God and men LORD Jesus Christ= 1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.
Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Hebrew 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Hebrew 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
_________________________
Apostles are allowed to marry,
1 Corinthians 9:1-5
1 Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we have no right to eat and drink? 5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
If Peter (peter is cephas read John 1:42) the so called "first pope" was married, why does the catholic church doesn't allow "pope" to marry?
_________________________
The so called vicar of christ/ pope/holy father Peter called himself a fellow elder in 1 Peter 5:1, and as per the qualifications of elder in Titus 1:5-9 the elder is allowed to get married; then why does the "pope" is required to be celibate and catholic? ( when Peter was neither celibate nor catholic).
1)Peter was not perfect human nor was he a perfect disciple
2)He sank down while walking on water
3)Our Lord said to peter get behind me satan
4)Peter reject our Lord 3 times
5)Our Lord rebuked Peter for calling fire from heaven
6)Our Lord rebuked Peter when he cut of the soilders ear
7)Paul rebuked Peter for being hypocrite because he was acting different in front of Jews and different in front of gentiles.
8) Moses messed up, and he was a important part of Bible ( that's why he never entered the promised land),
9)David messed up ( and he has the Holy Spirit),
10)King Soloman messed up,
11) Saul messed up and God regretted the decision (1 Samuel 15:10-11).
Hatrick (Saul then David then Soloman back to back messed up)
12)The apostles run away a day before Lord Jesus got locked up.
13)The early church messed up Rev 2:18-20
14) Apostle John when receiving Revelation worshiped an angel and the angel said "see you do not do that. Worship GOD" Revelation 22:8-9
If these great people could mess up, why do you think the catholic church wouldn't mess up.
_
Galatians 4:21-26
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar- 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children- 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Sarah is mother of all, Not mary
Also the Church has many name like Christians, Evangelists, Children of God, Believers, servents of God, bride of Christ, but not once the Church is called catholics
Changed the 10 commandments by deleting 2nd commandment, and dividing the 10th into 2 commandments. Also changing the real Saturday Sabbath to fake sunday sabbath.
It's pretty bold (and even arrogant, IMO) to eschew the first 500 years worth of scholarly teachings of early church leaders, only to accept the confused ramblings of a Manicheistic philosopher as the unadulterated gospel. I find it ironic that the Manichaeism which influenced Augustine's theology was birthed in the very Gnosticism the apostle Paul was confronting in his epistles. I pray eyes will be opened by your efforts, Dr. Flowers.
timffoster I actually agree with you....some of the teachings of the early church fathers were messy at best.
Does determinism to you have to be predeterminism? I believe all things are determined, but that future events are determined by those who determine them.
@@timffoster where did you read that teaching from Iranaeus about predestination?
@@jaygee2187 being determined needs to be qualified by truth, yet bound up, is not of much profit.
Allen Tomas you lost me....can you elaborate?
timffoster of course we can change our favourite colour or dessert. We make decisions and then change our minds about many different things every day.
Solid biblical soteriology is not to be found in Calvinism.
You are disrespecting some of the greatest minds (and spirits) of the 16th century and beyond. I would say it differently. Let's look beyond institutional Christianity. Let's get back to the simple Gospel.
@@Thrusce How can the have the greatest minds when they didn't even know the True Gospel... True Jesus?
I am glad God Sovereignly Decreed that His Church reject 5 Point Calvinism as being False and Unbiblical which it does world-wide!
@@cassandragarcia5548 well said
@@Thrusce Your last sentence is acceptable and correct. Your first sentence is a major problem, though. It is putting any supposed "great mind" of the past, on a pedastal by calling them "great", that is causing corruption. All sources of the past Church history, saving Jesus & the Apostles, that must be put to the test. That includes Constantine, Augustine, etc., etc. Where there is ERROR, it must be rooted out, regardless.
As I really enjoy your debunking calvanism and exposing its gnostic belief root. But the failure I need to bring up is that OSAS or unconditional eternal security was also created by gnostics and not the early church writings.
Amen
Interesting viewpoint, but not sure that is logical or compatible with the claims of determinism…in fact, it seems out right contrary to determinism
Instead of studying early church fathers, I’ve read the Bible for 15 years. Every two years I go through the scriptures entirely and plan to continue through my life on earth. There is honestly no clear message about these matters and if you focus on predestination will lose the chief message of the scriptures. Studying from Genesis through Revelation you can easily see a pattern the Lord uses through observing history as cause and effect. This helps us see what God has done and how man has responded to those things God has done in time on this earth. God has shown us from the beginning that he loves us and wants to be with us, and this comforts the sinner. I will admit that the scriptures talks about predestination at times, but it isn’t clear to us. God does not reveal these details in full the way he reveals his saving love in sending his own son to die for the sins of all people. Faith is the only way this gift can be received and even that is the gift of God. So we see some paradox’s in scripture/seemingly. They appear that way to us because as Romans 11:33 points out we are not able to see all God can. So we rest in his eternal wisdom and understanding and not our own.
Predestination is clear.
God knew in advance who would choose to trust in him.
God predestined those to be conformed into Christlikeness.
Good to see an honest comment on this channel.
Debunking catholicism
I'm more blessed than mary
Proof = Luke 11:27-28
27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
In Luke 11:27 that random woman LITERALLY said Jesus your mother is Blessed, but are Lord Jesus LITERALLY said Believers are more Blessed than mary. Amen and Amen
_________________________
CHRIST alone
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
_________________________
Work of God =
John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
_________________________
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach
Paul allows bishops to get marry, but catholic church goes against paul.
Now these catholic will give a Verses from 1 Corinthians7 to say that paul gave the advice to stay unmarried. But they will not tell you that the same chapter they quote says 1 Corinthians 7:28 "even if you do marry, you have not SINNED". The passage literally says "young women, young men" and a bishop is supposed to be a Church ELDER. Mic drop
_________________________
Jesus said Matthew 23:9
9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
And also said Holy Father to Heavenly Father= John 17:11
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
Jesus said call no one Father but still catholics call *pope holy father.
Sad
_________________________
Whenever a catholic argue about mary being the mother of God
Use this to defeat the argument.
Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
Matthew 12:46-50
46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.”
48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”.
Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.”
John 19:26-27
26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. ( Jesus basically said John is the son of mary, and mary is the mother of John from that time onwards).
By the way sarah is the mother of all proof=Galatians 4:21-26.
_________________________
We should not pray to apostles
Romans 1:25
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Acts 10:25-26
25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.”
Acts 14:15
15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them,
Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Revelation 22:8-9
8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."
Colossians 2:18
18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
You cannot go to Father through saints nor mary, you can only go to the Father through Lord Jesus Christ= John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Holy Spirit intercedes for us=Romans 8:26
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And CHRIST as well=Romans 8:34
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Hebrews 7:25
25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
It's Christ and Holy Spirit who intercedes for us not apostles
_________________________
There is only one Mediator between God and men LORD Jesus Christ= 1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.
Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Hebrew 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Hebrew 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
_________________________
Apostles are allowed to marry,
1 Corinthians 9:1-5
1 Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we have no right to eat and drink? 5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
If Peter (peter is cephas read John 1:42) the so called "first pope" was married, why does the catholic church doesn't allow "pope" to marry?
_________________________
The so called vicar of christ/ pope/holy father Peter called himself a fellow elder in 1 Peter 5:1, and as per the qualifications of elder in Titus 1:5-9 the elder is allowed to get married; then why does the "pope" is required to be celibate and catholic? ( when Peter was neither celibate nor catholic).
1)Peter was not perfect human nor was he a perfect disciple
2)He sank down while walking on water
3)Our Lord said to peter get behind me satan
4)Peter reject our Lord 3 times
5)Our Lord rebuked Peter for calling fire from heaven
6)Our Lord rebuked Peter when he cut of the soilders ear
7)Paul rebuked Peter for being hypocrite because he was acting different in front of Jews and different in front of gentiles.
8) Moses messed up, and he was a important part of Bible ( that's why he never entered the promised land),
9)David messed up ( and he has the Holy Spirit),
10)King Soloman messed up,
11) Saul messed up and God regretted the decision (1 Samuel 15:10-11).
Hatrick (Saul then David then Soloman back to back messed up)
12)The apostles run away a day before Lord Jesus got locked up.
13)The early church messed up Rev 2:18-20
14) Apostle John when receiving Revelation worshiped an angel and the angel said "see you do not do that. Worship GOD" Revelation 22:8-9
If these great people could mess up, why do you think the catholic church wouldn't mess up.
_
Galatians 4:21-26
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar- 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children- 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Sarah is mother of all, Not mary
Also the Church has many name like Christians, Evangelists, Children of God, Believers, servents of God, bride of Christ, but not once the Church is called catholics
Changed the 10 commandments by deleting 2nd commandment, and dividing the 10th into 2 commandments. Also changing the real Saturday Sabbath to fake sunday sabbath.
How can any open minded Calvinist not read Wilson’s book? The implications are earth shattering.
Unfortunately I have found that the words "open minded" and "calvinists" don't often go hand in hand. I wish this were otherwise.
Mish R. I was talking to a Calvinist friend the other day and I said ‘open minded’ means ‘humble’ to me. He didn’t really know how to respond.
@@leepretorius4869 I love that perspective. It doesn't mean that we should be open to and embrace everything, but rather that we are at least willing to listen and understand. Doing those things really does require humility. I am paraphrasing a verse, but I think in Proverbs it says, "with the humble there is wisdom." I'll have to find the correct reference.
Open minded sets off red flags. Most of the time it is to accept something that we know isn't true.
@@tophatt5706 but sometimes closed mindedness enslaves you to things that aren't true, with no hope of getting out.
I read some late writings of Luther, in which he said he used to be all about Augustine, but once he realized that the just shall live by faith, Augustine had to go! He was complaining about the new, young preachers who were all about predestination. I respect Luther for undermining his own prior teaching about the bondage of the will, surely his most famous book. I do not know where to find what I read; I probably wrote down the source, but don't have it or can't find it now.
No, Luther considered his “Bondage of the Will” to be one of his most important works!
@@phillipgriffiths9624 I know that I read the quote, which was part of a longer set of excerpts from his writing of that time. I just can't find it again; I don't know what to look for in a title. But if Augustine can change his mind about such serious matters, then maybe Luther could be big enough to reconsider his own pet theories, if they were really true, and not just stick with and push his theories because they were his "brand". If "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free", of what does that freedom consist? What does it change? In fact, when God *reveals* the truth to us (as "babes", willing to believe, rather than the worldly-"wise and prudent"), does He mock us, our having been fixed and incapable of receiving it? Or isn't it that revealing that overcomes any inability to respond that our fallen natures have?
The more I look into Calvinisn, the more it seems like a doctrine of God hating man for the very reason the He created us. Knowing that Augustine was a gnostic makes much more sense, now.
The reason Calvinism seems to be on the rise is because Calvinists seem to be far more concerned with leading the Church to Calvin than leading the lost to Christ.
Amen
Well said, and yet denied by every calvanist I have encountered.
Augustine was also a primary architect in transforming the Church from a mindset that eschewed violence to one that embraced it to accommodate the State.
Just War?
@@TheLincolnrailsplitt Yes.
Here in the U.S., that mindset is driving the fringe "Christian Nationalists".
I am not a Calvinist but I experienced God drawing me to Jesus. If I did not become aware that something supernatural was drawing me to Jesus I could not have by myself have opened the doors that were nailed shut by my education. At the same time when I drive I know I have to be responsible in my driving or I could get in an accident. I do not just trust God to keep me from an accident. I must take responsibility for my driving as well as pray for a safe trip. So my sense of being a being who must give an answer for what I do as well as my prayers of faith for God to guide and protect me are both true.
Ted Bates amen!
I remember learning about the important theologians in church history (at a Calvinistic leaning college). The Apostles, Augustine, Luther, Zwingli and Calvin. I wondered about those giant gaps in the timeline. What happened in between these few? My Calvinist education didn’t have an explanation.
And Arminianism. That required one Jacobus Arminius who did not pop onto the scene until 15 centuries after Jesus' ascension.
But was Arminianism around during, say, the first century? Not unless one wants to credit the Pharisees and Judaizers as the first.
The dark ages aka the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ
Actually the Calvinists are much closer to the Pharisees and Judaizers with their reliance on extra-biblical authorities. And I'm not even an "Arminian". But Augustine was probably more of a heretic than Pelagius ever was.
@@Gablesman888 well Arminius was a 4 point Calvinist, so that literally makes him less of a pharisee than the Calvinists and Augustine.
Between the Catholics and the Calvinists, they murdered thousands of teachers contradicted their false doctrines and burned their writings.
Even in the US we had Calvinists murdering their rivals and destroying their teachings. They were so evil and murderous there's only a handful of them that their own historians want to remember like Spurgeon. The psuedo-history taught in Calvinist bible colleges and seminaries is just as much mythology as the Catholic's nonsense. Even if you think you know the truth it's still just taking someone else's word for it. That's why being Spirit-filled is such a blessing. I'm a scientist so I was a intellectual pride monster, dead in my religious pride just as the Calvinists were. Now I have the literal Spirit of God bearing witness to my spirit and speaking Truths beyond my wildest imaginations.
Many Eminent Calvinists admit that Calvinism is basically Augustinianism refined:
1) Richard Muller - "John Calvin was part of a long line of thinkers who based their doctrine of predestination on the Augustinian interpretation of St. Paul." In his book, "Christ and the decree" 1988 page 22.
2) Alvin Baker - "There is hardly a doctrine of Calvin that does not bear the marks of Augustine's influence." In his book, "Berkouwer's Doctrine of Election: Balance or Imbalance" pg 25. 1981,
3) Gregg C. Singer - "The main features of Calvin's theology are found in the writings of St. Augustine to such an extent that many theologians regard Calvinism as a more full developed form of Augustinianism." In his book, "John Calvin: His roots and fruits" , 1989, pg. viii
4) B.B. Warfield - "The system of doctrine taught by Calvin is just the Augustinianism common to the whole body of the Reformers." In his book, "Calvin and Augustine", page 22, 1956.
5) Loraine Boettner - "Calvin and Augustine easily rank as the two outstanding systematic expounders of the Christian system since Saint Paul". In his book, "The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination" page 405, 1932.
6) John Calvin himself - "Augustine is so wholly with me, that if I wished to write a confession of my faith, I could do so with all fullness and satisfaction to myself out of his writings" In the book, "Calvin's Calvinism:"A treatise on the eternal predestination of God" written by John Calvin in 1552, Translated by Henry Cole, page 38, 1987.
this video is truly amazing Leighton , you are blessed by God to spread the truth .
Waiting for the Calvinists to come out of the woodwork to claim that Leighton is misrepresenting Calvinism. After all, why would Calvin and Calvinist teachers know anything about Calvinism?
in the interim, you ought to figure why to believe that God could raise up Jesus Christ from death, since you say he did not croak, sir.
And he did not raise his own ass, boy, and dead folk do not do that, cutter.
@@allentomas3417 -- Who was your response meant for? I don't see anyone anywhere claiming that Jesus didn't died. Scripture doesn't say that Jesus raised Himself; we are told to believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead. I assume the Father.
@@timffoster -- I see your point about whether Jesus or the Father was the actor in Jesus' resurrection, but the condition of faith is that believing the God did it -- which is true in either case. (Maybe they cooperated.)
Marius VanWoerden
Did you believe in the Trinity when you first believed the Gospel?
The Mormons have the same Bible Christians have!
If you were to ask them what this verse means they wouldn't just read it for what it says.
1 Timothy 2 : 3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. "
They would go look in the Book of Mormon for the TRUE meaning." and twist it to Smiths meaning!
The Jehovah Witness has the same Bible Christians have!
If you were to ask them what this verse means they wouldn't just read it for what it says.
They would go look in the Watch Tower for the TRUE meaning." and twist it to Russel's meaning!
The Calvinist have the same Bible Christians have!
If you were to ask them what this verse means they wouldn't just read it for what it says.
They would go look in John Calvin's Institutes for the TRUE meaning." and twist it to Calvin's meaning!
Christians have the same Bible the Cults have!
If you were to ask them what this verse means they would just say, "It means what it says and says what it means!"
Christians rely on the leading and discernment The Holy Spirit promises to give Gods Children. "Not a Guru!"
That is assurance!
TRUTH IN LOVE
Yes go to the earliest writings on this subject which is the Bible.
This is fascinating...Thank you for sharing it man of God.I always appreciate your insights.
John the "Calvinist" Baptist... "Ye cannot repent eventhough the kingdom of God is at hand" 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Who was John the Baptist speaking to? All people's everywhere, every tribe, every nation?
@@Mark-oo3om idc who he was speaking to, the issue is Calvinsim is ridiculous
@@BrotherDave80 you don't think I know that?
@@KISStheSON... I was referencing John the Baptist, not Paul......
@@Mark-oo3om I know you were...and I switched over to Paul who is the teacher of the Gentiles. :)
I enjoy this channel. Part of the reason why I’ve converted from evangelical to catholic was because of the reformed theology position on predestination. I encourage everyone who’s interested to look into the Church of Rome if Calvinism disturbs you.
Are you aware that most of the antenicene fathers, especially apostolic ones like clement(supposedly a pope) were against almost al modern roman catholic doctrines? The only thing roman catholicism got right was the trinity, but church fathers were against icons/idols/images, venerating the dead(they knew once you get to heaven you dont know what happens onnesrth anymore) like mary, saints, against venerating or talking to angels, they believed only on Scripture as msximum authority, they called tradition of the fathers, the Biblical truth, the problem is that after apostolic fathers died, their disciples started to stray from the tradition of the apostles and added man traditions to the original apostolic tradition(that is, the bible alone)
Ironically, the more I read the church fathers, the less roman catholic I become, thats why I just stick to Biblical christianity and avoid traditions of men
Even though reformers got augustinian theology, doesnt mean they were completely wrong, protestant doctrine at that point though incomplete in a way, was enough to be salvific, unlike roman catholicism , which was no longer real historical /Biblical christianity
And I would recommend you to ask the Holy Spirit guidance in your journey, check your soul, check there is no religious spirit deceiving you, check the motives of your heart, is Christ enough for you? Or do you depend partially in other things?
God bless you and hope you think about it
Roman Catholic doctrine is a large measure worse than Calvinism. I would not suggest either positions.
Augustine's "conversion" was to chastity. "for so thou convertestst meunot thyself, so that I sought no more after a wife" Confessions Book VIII Section XII
This is Augustine explaining his conversion in Book VIII.
'THOU DELEVEREDST ME OUT OF HT BONDS OF DESIRE, WHICH I HAD UNTO CARNAL CONCUPISCENCE'
BOOK VIII, SECTION VI
The term concupiscence is translated from the Latin concubitis which means to lay down with a woman.
His conversion was to pagan chastity which was needed to ascend to God.
This explains why this "Church Father" believed and taught that Adam and Eve had no sexual desire between them before the fall, and that sexual desire between a married believing couple is sin. He was certainly a false prophet.
If I am not mistaken, Augustine believed that evil was simply the absence of good, a notion derived from Platonic idealism. This reminds me of New Age concepts and teachings like Christian Science and heresies like Word of Faith.
Hello everyone, Saint Augustine nerd here, and after reading everyone's thought-provoking comments, I wanted to share my two cents. It is true that Augustine, in one sense, argues free will and then argues the prevailing of the Grace of God.
But I dont think Augustine is necessarily changing his views on free will. If you read his argument against Pelagius, Augustine argues that free will and pride are two different things for Pelagius. His biggest concern in being a bishop was that Pelagius was going on a direction of "self- will" and pride. Rather than fully trusting in God's grace or God's providence.
Where Augustine argues for free-will is with the Donatists who felt that when choosing clergy they must be sinless. Simply, when a man let alone a religious cleric can choose to be good then he is genuinely good.
Some of the issues I habe with John Calvin was that he was neither a platonist or an aristotelian. Through and through John Calvin's training was in civil Law. Not sure if John Calvin can pick up Augustines platonic or allegorical mind (Alexandrian thought) in the writings.
Would love to see what others
Every Calvinist must by logic believe that all Christians were wrong in their doctrine of soteriology for the first 5 centuries. Only in the later 5th century did ONE man discover the truth… To believe that is unscriptural and requires massive amounts of ego.
I understand that potentially Augustine could have been influenced by Manichaeism. But wouldn't the undisputed fact that after he converted from it and defended free will essentially invalidate that arguement? Because he was going directly against the teachings he formerly held to?
I know that he became more deterministic after contending with Palagean. But is it not reasonable to think that he started thinking that way as a reaction to his debates with Palageus?
Why do Catholics embrace Augustine so vehemently if he taught the “seeds” of Calvinism? Just ordered and read Ken Wilson’s book,”The Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism”.
Augustine's "Confessions", his autobiography, changed my life. But as much as I like Augustine, he is not God, and God's word is the standard we must go by. You can see in Confessions that Augustine was constantly growing, learning, forming his philosophical and theological thoughts as he grew. He unflinchingly shows how sinful he was as a young man, not bragging as many do when telling their testimonies, but crying out to God for how wicked he was, and that God was leading him to Himself the whole time, and he just never realized it until so much later. It's a beautiful story, the world's first true autobiography.
But Augustine could be wrong on some things, even he would be the first to admit that. He's constantly showing on Confessions how he came to a new understanding of this or that, and wondering how he could have been so wrong when he was younger. His pursuit of the question "what is evil?" is fascinating and he comes to some interesting conclusions.
What are some specific lines from Augustine's confessions that effected you so profoundly? I would like to know as I had trouble reading it.
I think any regenerate person would be brought to tears reading some of what he wrote especially if they had similar struggles!
Yep. No reason to reject all of Augustine because he was wrong about some things. We shouldn't throw out the baby with the baptismal water.
This is an excellent overview of the topic. Thank you.
Just reading Justin Martyr. He expressly rejects predestination.
I’ll be honest, I’ve always admired Augustine for his testimony.
I think every Christian could be edified by his Confessions.
There’s nothing wrong with that either! Even if you disagree with a fellow believer based on doctrines, edification is possible (even likely).
Well done my friend, well done. This is so important to know where calvin's poison came from. Dave Hunt's work. "What Love is this?" on UA-cam is another must view on this crazy subject of calvinism.
If one would only study the Word of God as much as some study the early church fathers we might come up with some sound thinking, rather then leaning upon those who were still vague in what they understood. It seems Calvinism was a reaction to the confused state of things, rather than being an actual sane break through that would produce peace and stability, rather than defiance to logic.
It is Holy Spirit alone, not “theologians “ who think they have it all figured out. Ask God to show you what He is saying in the Word. “Do not lean on your own understanding “.
@@margriettalen6713 Right... so you can flip right back into your own understanding? God gave his church a few good teachers for every generation. Many will be poor teachers. (2 Timothy 4:3) God uses men with the gift to teach, who walk in the Spirit, to show us what is not according to our own understanding. After being exposed to what I speak of it can make an over confident believer to feel the fear of the Lord for the first time in their lives... so be it.
Thanks for this video Dr Flowers.
Calvin had an underwhelming appreciation of St. Augustine, who understood very well that obedience is grounded in a genuine free will. There is no obedience without free will. Calvin's crude notion of predestination makes a human merely a robot programmed by God, obviously without the capacity of obedience or disobedience. St. Augustine had a much deeper and richer understanding. I will never understand why true Calvinists even bother to preach. Why try to convince others of Calvinism or Christian faith for that matter? It's all done; it's settled. Is it just to boast that they are saved and everyone else is damned? And why in the world would God bother creating humans just to predestine them to eternal damnation without any chance of escape? Just so the few elect can gloat about their fate? Come on.
Can we also use this video clips in our program here in the Philippines against Calvinism brother Flowers?
Thank you so much for producing this video! The connection of Calvinism and Augustinianism - and the impact Augustine had on church history - needs to be established more clearly in the current discussion. Thank you, again.
I believe you're on the right path in fighting against the false teaching of Calvinism and fatalism.
I believe a key tactic is connected to how Calvinism has redefined the church's understanding of the work of Christ.
Paying a debt or forgiving debt?
Redeemed from the power of the devil or Redeemed from the Father?
Did Jesus come in the likeness of sinful flesh or something different?
The problem with all of these intellectuals is that they compare one another's understanding or interpretations of God's will.
The truth is that we should only compare man's beliefs with that of Scripture alone, God's full counsel alone, God's will only!
So it wasn't Sola Scriptura...
Yve Clark Sola Augustine
Since we are referring to the early church fathers how can anyone believe in eternal security after reading early church fathers? We know Augustine started the heretical Calvinist doctrine. Why teach against it then take some beliefs from someone you are speaking against? Doesn’t make sense.
Now use this same methodology to find out what the faith once for all delivered was concerning the issue of whether a person who has once been regenerated can subsequently be lost.
Here is a list of common OSAS (once saved, always saved) statements & objections, along with biblical responses to them:
1) "I prayed a prayer years ago, so I'm going to Heaven even though I'm not living right."
For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. (Romans 8:13)
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)
This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:10)
2) "OK, such a person is not saved because he was never saved in the first place. But whoever is really saved cannot lose his salvation."
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. (Hebrews 10:26, 27)
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:4)
They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. (Colossians 2:19)
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. (John 15:6)
Then the master called the servant in. “You wicked servant,” he said, “I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?” In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart. (Matthew 18:32-35)
The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. (1 Timothy 1:5, 6)
But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die. (Ezekiel 18:24)
Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. (Luke 8:13)
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. (1 Timothy 6:10)
3) "You're teaching salvation by works if you're saying we have to keep living by faith to be saved."
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. (James 2:17)
Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. (Revelation 3:2)
He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death. (Revelation 2:11)
We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. (Hebrews 3:14)
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. (Galatians 6:7-9)
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach-if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister. (Colossians 1:21-23)
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. (2 Peter 2:20)
4) "If works are so important, what about grace?"
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age. (Titus 2:11,12)
5) "But I thought that when I was saved, all of my future sins were forgiven."
But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. (2 Peter 1:9)
6) "Are you saying that saving faith can be departed from, or destroyed?"
If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him,he will also disown us...
Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. (2 Timothy 2:12, 17-18)
7) "Are you saying someone can be saved, then backslide, then be saved again?"
My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover over a multitude of sins. (James 5:19, 20)
Summary:
Jesus suffered, died, and rose from death to purchase my salvation, and I could never add one ounce of merit to that. It's not an unconditional salvation, though. The condition is faith in Jesus. If there's no evidence of a changed life, then there's no salvation (James said faith without works is dead). So I am saved by grace through faith. I chose to receive that grace thirty-three years ago. It was a gift received by faith. At the moment I trusted Jesus, all of my past sins were forgiven. I couldn't have chosen to trust him if God had not drawn me by his Spirit, but it still was my free will that decided to receive him. I still have free will. And so do you. Let's choose, by the grace of God, to follow Jesus today, and tomorrow, and so on until he returns.
@@FRN2013 I appreciate you sharing that! I completely agree!
@@FRN2013 thank you very much. 🙏
@@FRN2013 and that not of yourselves,what must we do to work the works of GOD,this is the work of GOD, that you believe on jesus christ whom he hath sent,not of works lest any man should boast AKA YOU
rocket quotes some half-verses (verses that I love), and then accuses me of boasting. LOL
Where is my boast?
Good to hear the referencing of the Ante-Nicene Fathers for the witnesses of the Apostles holds greater weight than modern theologians trying to justify their compounded errors of Augustinian teachings.
Augustine's theology was no where close to what Calvin taught. Augustine was a Catholic bishop said the Mass and taught Catholic theology including the Papacy. However, Calvin love to twist Augustine's theology in an attempt to give credence to his own beliefs.
If you choose to follow scripture and not any man’s ideals
2 Corinthians 10:5-We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Proverbs 3:5-6-5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.
Proverbs 30:5-6-5 “Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6 Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
I believe whole heartedly that true bible doctrine cannot be understood until Augustine is fully removed from the church.
You should make this a series. A lot to unpack in one video. Great info though!!
Ardae Lea
“Did Augustine corrupt the early church” by Jesse Morell is a good video to watch. It seems that Leighton got his video inserts from it.
Check it out on UA-cam.
God bless.
Evan U, thank you!
Debunking catholicism
I'm more blessed than mary
Proof = Luke 11:27-28
27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
In Luke 11:27 that random woman LITERALLY said Jesus your mother is Blessed, but are Lord Jesus LITERALLY said Believers are more Blessed than mary. Amen and Amen
_________________________
CHRIST alone
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
_________________________
Work of God =
John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
_________________________
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach
Paul allows bishops to get marry, but catholic church goes against paul.
Now these catholic will give a Verses from 1 Corinthians7 to say that paul gave the advice to stay unmarried. But they will not tell you that the same chapter they quote says 1 Corinthians 7:28 "even if you do marry, you have not SINNED". The passage literally says "young women, young men" and a bishop is supposed to be a Church ELDER. Mic drop
_________________________
Jesus said Matthew 23:9
9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
And also said Holy Father to Heavenly Father= John 17:11
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
Jesus said call no one Father but still catholics call *pope holy father.
Sad
_________________________
Whenever a catholic argue about mary being the mother of God
Use this to defeat the argument.
Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
Matthew 12:46-50
46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.”
48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”.
Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.”
John 19:26-27
26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. ( Jesus basically said John is the son of mary, and mary is the mother of John from that time onwards).
By the way sarah is the mother of all proof=Galatians 4:21-26.
_________________________
We should not pray to apostles
Romans 1:25
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Acts 10:25-26
25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.”
Acts 14:15
15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them,
Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Revelation 22:8-9
8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."
Colossians 2:18
18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
You cannot go to Father through saints nor mary, you can only go to the Father through Lord Jesus Christ= John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Holy Spirit intercedes for us=Romans 8:26
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And CHRIST as well=Romans 8:34
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Hebrews 7:25
25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
It's Christ and Holy Spirit who intercedes for us not apostles
_________________________
There is only one Mediator between God and men LORD Jesus Christ= 1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.
Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Hebrew 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Hebrew 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
_________________________
Apostles are allowed to marry,
1 Corinthians 9:1-5
1 Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we have no right to eat and drink? 5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
If Peter (peter is cephas read John 1:42) the so called "first pope" was married, why does the catholic church doesn't allow "pope" to marry?
_________________________
The so called vicar of christ/ pope/holy father Peter called himself a fellow elder in 1 Peter 5:1, and as per the qualifications of elder in Titus 1:5-9 the elder is allowed to get married; then why does the "pope" is required to be celibate and catholic? ( when Peter was neither celibate nor catholic).
1)Peter was not perfect human nor was he a perfect disciple
2)He sank down while walking on water
3)Our Lord said to peter get behind me satan
4)Peter reject our Lord 3 times
5)Our Lord rebuked Peter for calling fire from heaven
6)Our Lord rebuked Peter when he cut of the soilders ear
7)Paul rebuked Peter for being hypocrite because he was acting different in front of Jews and different in front of gentiles.
8) Moses messed up, and he was a important part of Bible ( that's why he never entered the promised land),
9)David messed up ( and he has the Holy Spirit),
10)King Soloman messed up,
11) Saul messed up and God regretted the decision (1 Samuel 15:10-11).
Hatrick (Saul then David then Soloman back to back messed up)
12)The apostles run away a day before Lord Jesus got locked up.
13)The early church messed up Rev 2:18-20
14) Apostle John when receiving Revelation worshiped an angel and the angel said "see you do not do that. Worship GOD" Revelation 22:8-9
If these great people could mess up, why do you think the catholic church wouldn't mess up.
_
Galatians 4:21-26
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar- 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children- 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Sarah is mother of all, Not mary
Also the Church has many name like Christians, Evangelists, Children of God, Believers, servents of God, bride of Christ, but not once the Church is called catholics
Changed the 10 commandments by deleting 2nd commandment, and dividing the 10th into 2 commandments. Also changing the real Saturday Sabbath to fake sunday sabbath.
Debunking catholicism
I'm more blessed than mary
Proof = Luke 11:27-28
27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
In Luke 11:27 that random woman LITERALLY said Jesus your mother is Blessed, but are Lord Jesus LITERALLY said Believers are more Blessed than mary. Amen and Amen
_________________________
CHRIST alone
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
_________________________
Work of God =
John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
_________________________
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach
Paul allows bishops to get marry, but catholic church goes against paul.
Now these catholic will give a Verses from 1 Corinthians7 to say that paul gave the advice to stay unmarried. But they will not tell you that the same chapter they quote says 1 Corinthians 7:28 "even if you do marry, you have not SINNED". The passage literally says "young women, young men" and a bishop is supposed to be a Church ELDER. Mic drop
_________________________
Jesus said Matthew 23:9
9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
And also said Holy Father to Heavenly Father= John 17:11
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
Jesus said call no one Father but still catholics call *pope holy father.
Sad
_________________________
Whenever a catholic argue about mary being the mother of God
Use this to defeat the argument.
Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
Matthew 12:46-50
46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.”
48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”.
Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.”
John 19:26-27
26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. ( Jesus basically said John is the son of mary, and mary is the mother of John from that time onwards).
By the way sarah is the mother of all proof=Galatians 4:21-26.
_________________________
We should not pray to apostles
Romans 1:25
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Acts 10:25-26
25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.”
Acts 14:15
15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them,
Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Revelation 22:8-9
8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."
Colossians 2:18
18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
You cannot go to Father through saints nor mary, you can only go to the Father through Lord Jesus Christ= John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Holy Spirit intercedes for us=Romans 8:26
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And CHRIST as well=Romans 8:34
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Hebrews 7:25
25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
It's Christ and Holy Spirit who intercedes for us not apostles
_________________________
There is only one Mediator between God and men LORD Jesus Christ= 1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.
Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Hebrew 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Hebrew 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
_________________________
Apostles are allowed to marry,
1 Corinthians 9:1-5
1 Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we have no right to eat and drink? 5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
If Peter (peter is cephas read John 1:42) the so called "first pope" was married, why does the catholic church doesn't allow "pope" to marry?
_________________________
The so called vicar of christ/ pope/holy father Peter called himself a fellow elder in 1 Peter 5:1, and as per the qualifications of elder in Titus 1:5-9 the elder is allowed to get married; then why does the "pope" is required to be celibate and catholic? ( when Peter was neither celibate nor catholic).
1)Peter was not perfect human nor was he a perfect disciple
2)He sank down while walking on water
3)Our Lord said to peter get behind me satan
4)Peter reject our Lord 3 times
5)Our Lord rebuked Peter for calling fire from heaven
6)Our Lord rebuked Peter when he cut of the soilders ear
7)Paul rebuked Peter for being hypocrite because he was acting different in front of Jews and different in front of gentiles.
8) Moses messed up, and he was a important part of Bible ( that's why he never entered the promised land),
9)David messed up ( and he has the Holy Spirit),
10)King Soloman messed up,
11) Saul messed up and God regretted the decision (1 Samuel 15:10-11).
Hatrick (Saul then David then Soloman back to back messed up)
12)The apostles run away a day before Lord Jesus got locked up.
13)The early church messed up Rev 2:18-20
14) Apostle John when receiving Revelation worshiped an angel and the angel said "see you do not do that. Worship GOD" Revelation 22:8-9
If these great people could mess up, why do you think the catholic church wouldn't mess up.
_
Galatians 4:21-26
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar- 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children- 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Sarah is mother of all, Not mary
Also the Church has many name like Christians, Evangelists, Children of God, Believers, servents of God, bride of Christ, but not once the Church is called catholics
Changed the 10 commandments by deleting 2nd commandment, and dividing the 10th into 2 commandments. Also changing the real Saturday Sabbath to fake sunday sabbath.
No matter how many ‘facts’ are presented some people cling to their beliefs because to ‘let them go’ would take humility and an admission of having been wrong. I think the last 3 years has shown that to be true!!
I love your podcasts.
Very clear & helpful..
You are a gentleman🌱
How Luther and Calvin, and a good many Protestants, interpreted Augustine is unique to irrationalism philosophy which came into western Christianity in the 14th century, most notably in this case, through William of Ockham. Here is a definition I stole from Webster:
: a system emphasizing intuition, instinct, feeling, or faith rather than reason; or holding that the universe is governed by irrational forces.
Luther called himself an “Ockhamist”. His interpretation of Augustine, like Calvin, was flawed because Augustine was not an irrationalist yet they and many others read him that way.
Augustine is considered a doctor of the Church by Catholics, and we don’t get Calvinism out of his writings.
Thank you. Just wanted to defend Saint Augustine from the calumnies of having anything to do with Calvinism.
I’m not gonna lie I really miss the old intro song, could we bring it back or is copyright a problem?
I'm on the not bring it back team. These short videos should be as concise as possible imo
Hobbietat that’s fair, can’t disagree, maybe put into the podcasts? For me it gives a great summery of the questions non Calvinists ask so either way I do like it
Augustine, the great Father and Doctor of the Church, summarized so well, “God created us without us: but he did not will to save us without us” (CCC 1847).
"If, however, being already regenerate and justified, he relapses of his own will into an evil life, assuredly he cannot say, “I have not received”, because of his own free choice to evil he has lost the grace of God, that he had received."
(Treaties on Rebuke and Grace, p.9 by St Augustine)
St Augustine did not teach double predestination :)
He did teach double predestination
"What will He give to those whom He has PREDESTINED TO LIFE, who has given such things even to those whom He has PREDESTINED TO DEATH?"
(Augustine, City of God,Book 22 Chapter 24)
@@ClassicalAnglican and he in fact said those that i quoted too. Where does this leave us?
@@ferenchortobagyi9704 The free choice that Augustine was talking about was already predestined by God...the Westminster confession chapter 9 has entire section on free will...You need to realise when Augustine or Calvin used the term free will it's always linked with Predestination...reprobates by their own choice sin but their damnation is already predestined as per Augustine said
@@ClassicalAnglican to be fair St Augustine taught both, in one writing he said A, in another one he said B. Sometimes he mildly contradicted himself in the same writing suggesting that he leans toward one thing but tried to nuance the subject to make room for interpretation because he himself wasn't 100% sure. I see that the Westminster confession has a whole section regarding free will but to a catholic that doesn't really mean much. St Augustine didn't use free will the same way Luther or Calvin did. At least not in all of his writings. I talked about this a lot with my soteriology teacher from Rome who knows the works of St Augustine deeply.
I admit he wrote about double predestination explicitly but also about reprobation in the catholic way, otherwise he never would have been a saint and church doctor. In our opinion we think that he was in the wrong when he taught double predestination.
I'll give you some example:
@@ClassicalAnglican "The apostle says, say they, 'For who makes you to differ? And what have you that you have not received? Now also if you have received it, why do you glory as if you had not received it?' 2 Corinthians 4:7 Why, then, are we rebuked, censured, reproved, accused? What do we do, we who have not received? They who say this wish to appear without blame in respect of their not obeying God, because assuredly obedience itself is His gift; and that gift must of necessity be in him in whom dwells love, which without doubt is of God, 1 John 4:7 and the Father gives it to His children. This, say they, we have not received. Why, then, are we rebuked, as if we were able to give it to ourselves, and of our own choice would not give it? And they do not observe that, if they are not yet regenerated, the first reason why, when they are reproached because they are disobedient to God, they ought to be dissatisfied with themselves is, that God made man upright from the beginning of the human creation, Ecclesiastes 7:30 and there is no unrighteousness with God. Romans 9:14 And thus the first depravity, whereby God is not obeyed, is of man, because, falling by his own evil will from the rectitude in which God at first made him, he became depraved. Is, then, that depravity not to be rebuked in a man because it is not peculiar to him who is rebuked, but is common to all? Nay, let that also be rebuked in individuals, which is common to all. For the circumstance that none is altogether free from it is no reason why it should not attach to each man. Those original sins, indeed, are said to be the sins of others, because individuals derived them from their parents; but they are not unreasonably said to be our own also, because in that one, as the apostle says, all have sinned. Romans 3:23 Let, then, the damnable source be rebuked, that from the mortification of rebuke may spring the will of regeneration - if, indeed, he who is rebuked is a child of promise - in order that, by the noise of the rebuke sounding and lashing from without, God may by His hidden inspiration work in him from within to will also. If, however, being already regenerate and justified, he relapses of his own will into an evil life, assuredly he cannot say, I have not received, because of his own free choice to evil he has lost the grace of God, that he had received. And if, stung with compunction by rebuke, he wholesomely bewails, and returns to similar good works, or even better, certainly here most manifestly appears the advantage of rebuke. But yet for rebuke by the agency of man to avail, whether it be of love or not, depends only upon God."
Calvin's thirst for torture and murder literally came from the writings of Augustine.
Congratulations!
Finally a great video about this subject.
All we can find on UA-cam are longer than 40 mins (many going beyond 90 mins) videos that have 3 or 4 good citations and quotations, tops.
This video here is doing right, the way that an apologetics video should be.
Cirurgic aiming to the weak flank of the target; throws the rock and BAM...
...giant on the ground.
@Pk Amponn - Nope.
John 1:1, 12-14
Like a Catholic concluding that Mary is the "mother of god" (and this idea was there since Semíramis and Tamuz), you are inverting the order (the sequence) and concluding that The Son is The Father.
The Creator fulfilling His promises sent Himself to the time/space domain to become a man.
This is described as His Word because "a word sent" created everything. The SAME person sent HIMSELF to become a man.
He came and made a conception process start inside a woman.
The Creator before that man we call Yeshua is called generically The Husband (of his people), The Creator (of everything, of his people), The Father (of his people).
HE came and must be recognized.
So, this man is called Yeshua.
The actual Son of The Creator.
Then The Creator now has a son.
A second that is not generically called "son". He actually is His son because is Himself inside a man, being a man; The last Adam.
Jesus is the man that was made by The Creator.
The Creator was inside Him.
The Creator is Spirit. Sempiternal.
Jesus has a beginning.
The idea about The Savior always existed on eternity. Not the man Jesus in time/space domain nor on eternity.
That's really simple.
Now we read those that never thought about a three-person god saying that "Jesus was there on Heavens because they are now using the man's name to make us understand that HE (The Creator inside the man) IS THE SAME ONE that was there before that man exist.
They are saying: Our Jew God became a man.
And that's why thepharisee took some rocks when He called The Creator "my Father".
The Scriptures are here mostly for the Hebrews to make them recognize The Creator - the SAME that Moses tried to know by His name and many were seeking and following since the first couple.
They don't have the same understanding about the word and expression "son" as we have.
They understand the extension of the SAME character, same personality - as you can see many many times in your Bible - people with the same character called "son of" some from an ancient "way before" generation.
The Son is the second phase - the plenitude of times, the old to new covenant transition. That's the promised land. The gospels. The grace. The Truth made visible.
Now we can have Him in us guiding us to His place like a family where He is the firstborn...
@Pk Amponn One by one, ok? Let's see...
Romans 1:3 "concerning God's Son who became [genomanu] a descendant of David according to the flesh"
That's what I am talking about. Jesus, the man, is not The Creator.
The Creator came to be born like a man.
And that man was called YE + SHUA (The Sempiternal + Salvation).
The man is CHRIST, THE CHRIST, The Lamb of The Creator dying in our place.
The Creator never died. The Word of The Creator never died.
The man called YE+SHUA (Jesus), guided for The Creator inside HIM (Just like Abraham and Isaac - Gn 22) died for us.
Mt 1:1 About THE MAN called Jesus that died in our place (human beings)
Lk 1:32 About THE MAN called Jesus that died in our place (human beings)
Act 2:30 About THE MAN called Jesus that died in our place (human beings)
Act 13:23 About THE MAN called Jesus that died in our place (human beings)
2Tm 2:8 About THE MAN called Jesus that died in our place (human beings)
This is NOT "The Son" for those that can't only see the man (they are only considering Jesus the man), and HE IS NOT The Creator HIMSELF in the flesh for those that can't recognize The Creator there (but "another person of The Creator", or just an especial man).
...and I am trying to make you understand that for a long time...
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
*"John **1:14** "and the Word became [egeneto] flesh and dwelt among us""*
*Do you believe the Son became flesh ?*
No, I believe what The Creator is teaching us.
I believe that The Creator, thru HIS WORD (promises being fulfilled, actions like the creation) came and made a man that was called YESHUA to be HIM inside a man - better than Adam should be.
So, THEN, we can SEE The Creator in the flesh and THAT'S THE SON.
THEN The Son, when the time came, was SENT to the world (that "lies in the power of the evil one." - 1Joh 5:19), like a sheep among wolves.
That is exactly what the verse you've just mentioned and the gospel of John are teaching us.
And NOW we all can receive HIM inside us: "One God and Father of [us] all, Who is above all [Sovereign over all], pervading all and [living] in [us] all." (Eph 4:6)
The Word of God is THE SAME GOD in movement, in action, creating, teaching and saving.
The Spirit of GOD is HIS person.
HIS NAME is HIS renown, HIS personality to be recognized and believed.
The Father, in OT, it's a generic term. So, HE promises to send us a SON (send to where? among people that claim to be HIS - on Earth, being born just like any other man, so HE will be HIS SON and HE (The Creator in Heavens) WILL BE (future) HIS FATHER, HIS ORIGIN, HIS ASCENDENCY).
The Son is The Creator HIMSELF, now, in the flesh, becoming a SON like we all should be - because before that, every man could claim to be a son of GOD (because HE IS The Creator and those men are creatures, by the flesh) only in their lips but their hearts way apart from HIM.
"For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father [of Eternity], Prince of Peace." (Is 9:6) Look Lk 1:31 (they understood that perfectly and that's why they mention it here on Gospels)
1- The Holy Spirit (The Creator HIMSELF) - Wonderful Counselor (Is 28:29)
2- The Creator HIMSELF - Mighty God (Is 10:21)
3- The Creator HIMSELF - Everlasting Father [of Eternity] - in both senses, opening the eternal life for those who receive HIM (recognizes HIM) understanding the SIN, the justice and the judgment (The Old and The New Covenants).
4- The Creator HIMSELF in the flesh reconciling Creator and Creation - Prince of Peace
Lv 26:11-12 The SAME Creator (only ONE PERSON) warning us about HIS coming (2Co 6:16)
Sl 107:19-20 The process to set HIS (THE SAME CREATOR, ONE person) people free (Joh 1:14)
Is 7:14 The Creator points for another way to be recognized - EMMANUEL, The Creator WITH US (Mt 1:23)
Zc 2:5-12 The Creator announces HIS coming and speech like being a human among HIS people already and like The Creator in Heavens
Mt 1:16 Genealogy to reach king David (Lk 1:27) as you've mentioned (a king, including that, is used to apply the generic sense of "father/son" by the character similarity)
Mt 17:2 Three, a figure of The Savior (Moses) and a prophet (Elijah), The Old Testament (Psa 84:11) - Quate from Clarke commentary: "That fulness of the Godhead, which dwelt bodily in Christ, now shone forth through the human nature, and manifested to his disciples not only that Divinity which Peter had before confessed, Mt 16:16, but also the glorious resurrection body, in which they should exist in the presence of God to eternity." - (Ph 2:6-7) Simple, hun?
And there are many other verses that you should understand...
Lk 1:31
; Lk 2:7
Joh 3:16
; Joh 17:8; Act 4:12; 2Co 6:16; Cl 1:19; Cl 2:9; 2Pe 1:17
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
*- therefore, the Word is the Son and the Son is the Word right*
Nope!
The WORD of The Creator (not any word) came (was sent, thru promises, prophecies, predictions, descriptions to us be prepared to recognize The Creator in the flesh) and BECAME a man.
So, THE WORD was NEVER a man BEFORE that. Try to fix that in your mind first.
BUT, when THE WORD was "implanted" inside a WOMAN (Remember EVE? She had to throw the Word of God from her to receive the word of the serpent in her heart), that woman started to carry The Creator inside her. That's ANOTHER FIGURE teaching us what is The Creator's family that you probably use to call it "church".
So, we have The Creator in Heavens.
HE Speeches and things are created.
So, how those things were created?
Thru and by HIS word.
Now, how The Creator became flesh, became a man?
HE said that would be here and came. And HE spoke, and the woman started to form a man (human body). So, the WORD was made a man, became a man.
The Creator now is visible. How? Looking to Jesus we can see HIM (Joh 14:8-9).
Jesus is the FINAL RESULT of that beautiful miracle. The Son.
A man who carries The Word of The Creator (that is The Creator HIMSELF) inside.
We can see The Creator speaking thru Him, making miracles, teaching, etc..
The man Jesus died for us.
...but The Creator resurrected Him (the man).
Why, because that man was HIS. HIS FAMILY with the SAME Spirit inside.
"He shall build a house (descendants) for My Name [and My Presence], and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever (forever because is not from this world - Joh 18:36 - will never be changed nor removed, or lost, or defeated).
I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. When he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the stripes of the sons of men." (2Sm 7:13-14)
@Pk Amponn *"you believe in original sin so you are a catholic aswell, you believe the bible was inspired by God so youre practically the Pope "*
Nope.
A zebra and a lion believe they need water and air and that doesn't make them equal.
In fact, they have a very different point of view about what life is.
First of all, the Romanist leader never trusted in The Bible, so never was reborn, never was regenerated, never understood the need about adore The Creator alone, never plainly gave his life to Jesus alone, never stopped worshiping his idols, never understood The Word of The Creator, was NEVER filled with The Creator, etc..
The fact that a pagan religion leader claims to believe in something it doesn't mean that he understands that nor he obeys that. Satan believes that The Creator is ONE (not two, or even three - Jam 2:19) and what that means? It doesn't matter. Satan keeps working against The Creator's creatures trying to prevent their (our) salvation. See?
I believe The Creator's WORD, even without any "Bible", is powerful enough to lead us to HIM and make us see WHO is Jesus. Just like Adam, Abel, Seth, Noah, Abram/Abraham, etc did. And I believe that The Creator made humans for having a direct relationship with humans and among humans express HIS name, HIS SHEM, HIS personality.
"One God and Father of [us] all (generically, from The Old Testament - and literally in Jesus and all those that receive the same Spirit), Who is above all [Sovereign over all, including satan], pervading all and [living] in [us] all (regenerated ones)." (Eph 4:6)
The Bible, The Scriptures, and The New Testament is a HUGE help to us and for the Hebrews...
...like "The Word of The Creator" now written so we can see it and learn. Than HE CAME and BECAME a man so we can see HIM and learn.
I believe that all things called "religion" in the men's made doctrines sense are inspired by ha satan, and that includes the pagan Romanist leader and all his followers.
And, sadly, as far as I can see (thru your comparisons and conclusions), you seem to have very short zeal about The Scriptures. Maybe I'm wrong, of course, but that is what you're way to deal with the subject shows me.
The Scriptures demand a way of deeper understanding that any CHILD can get.
A child can believe in The Scripture but someone that is trying to make The Scripture to say what he believes will use The Scripture like a crutch and will keep carrying some doubts that are unexplainable doctrines ("mysteries") because those people are loving their religious and traditions more than The Truth.
And that's why so many people follow the Romanist leader and others like him.
Not using their own minds. Not studying and seeking The Truth.
But they prefer to be part of something with "very solid handrails" than walk by faith.
That's were the "works" need to be part of, and leaders, and temples, traditions, paganism, occult, etc...
@Pk Amponn Oh boy...
...you're still trying to see what is NOT there.
*"Acts **10:38** "God annointed Jesus with the Holy Spirit" - 3 persons, God is not the Holy Spirit "*
The Creator "anointed" Jesus. Jesus is THE MAN; not ANOTHER PERSON.
Did you see Jesus and The Creator together and The Creator dropping olive oil on Jesus' head?
No. The idea is that the sacred oil penetrates and cover the person with the blessing. See?
This verse is showing that The Creator is IN JESUS.
That's the reference to "Jesus the man" like "son of David", David a man anointed (by Samuel) to be THE FIRST KING over The Creator's PEOPLE. Just like Isaac was called THE SON (first and unique) of Abraham (even that we know that Abraham had another son before Isaac) because Isaac was the son of the promise or the promised son). That reminds you, someone?
The man, YESHUA (Jesus) was anointed but NOT externally, like David. HE was THE ANOINTED ONE (That's what the word CHRIST means)
The Creator was inside HIM. And even then, The Creator on Heavens (showing to those people that HE IS THE SAME, points to Jesus, the man, to make HIS people recognize HIM in the flesh), HE gave another sign to John the baptist that could see the Spirit over The Messiah...(Is 11:2; Is 42:1)
Simon Barjonas was PROVING that Jesus is The Creator that came and became MAN. See?
And all you'll find will be saying just THE SAME.
Your vision still appears to be so short. Try to let The Creator get you out of your tent and make you look to the sky...(Gn 15:5)
The Scripture is so beautiful and sadly you seem not to see it at all.
Simon Barjona was there explaining The entire Scripture and was explaining that Jesus was THE MAN (anointed like king David) filled with The Creator.
The verse mentioned by you says: "How God anointed and consecrated Jesus of Nazareth with the [Holy] Spirit and with strength and ability and power; how He went about doing good and, in particular, curing all who were harassed and oppressed by [the power of] the devil, for God was with Him.
" (Act 10:38)
So clear - about the MAN. The man is NOT The Creator.
The man has a BEGINNING. Can you understand that?
This preaching is bout THE MAN YESHUA, that means THE CREATOR's SALVATION or THE SALVATION from the part of THE CREATOR (sent by HIM).
And ends saying - "GOD was WITH HIM. Remember Mary carrying the baby inside her?
I don't understand WHY you're still recalcitrating against the prickes (goad).
All verses you're still trying to use to support the "roman god" are so out of context that I feel you never spent a minute to read the entire chapter...
...but let's move to the next one.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
2Corinthians 13:14 "the grace of the Lord Jesus, the love of God and the fellowship of the Spirit" - again 3 Persons are mentioned, they are distinct
The Grace of Jesus Christ - "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
" (Joh 1:17) - Be could not be saved, receive The Creator and be part of HIS family...
Jesus, YESHUA, the man (again) died for you, for me, for every human being.
The LOVE of GOD - is understood after you recognize HIS works for us.
Now, all that learn The Creator, THE SAME ONE from The Old Testament, and recognize HIS favor, HIS effort for us in Jesus (the man, the Christ), receive HIS SAME Spirit and the power to be made SON of The Creator, too.
the fellowship of the Spirit - First, look as Eph 4:3, please. Like I've said just a line above, receiving the SAME Spirit, we start to be made The Creator's family members. The SAME Spirit, with the same faith, the same feelings (Eph 3:14-21; 4:1-7)
"Therefore, if there is any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion,
complete my joy, so that you are in agreement, having the same love, united in spirit, having one purpose.
Do nothing according to selfish ambition or according to empty conceit, but in humility considering one another better than yourselves,
each of you not looking out for your own interests, but also each of you for the interests of others.
Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
" (Phi 2:1-5)
I really hope that The Creator broaden your horizons.
Let HE show you "how many people" HE is.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Romans 1:3 "concerning God's Son who became [genomanu] a descendant of David according to the flesh"
Who became flesh according to this verse ?
The WORD (The Creator) became The Son, The son is "THE MAN + THE WORD of The Creator".
You're stuck on that.
This verse is so obvious - The point here is THE MAN, again, and that's WHY the king David is mentioned.
Otherwise, you would in a deep problem because Davi is NOT The Creator and to be a son of The Creator a man need to have The Creator inside him.
I have to say that one more time - The first purpose of The Bible is to make the Hebrews see that The Creator came, and HE was their Messiah. And that their Messiah became OUR Messiah, too.
Now, reread this same verse with this in mind and you'll understand WHY it's there.
Now, we'll see those who recognized The WORD, The Creator in the flesh referencing HIM by the name "Jesus" ou as in this case, "The Son of God" because the epistle was not the only way they used to preach.
Paul used to carry the Scriptures (The Old Testament) with him, as you can see.
And why they use to referencing to The Creator in the flesh like that and not like "The Son of MAN" anymore?
Because they recognized WHO THE SON (and Jesus - Yeshua) is.
So, when they are talking about The Creator in the flesh and when they are talking about THE MESSIAH may differ. And you need to be very aware of it.
Just like some passages that Paul mentions words like predestination - he is using "we" and "you" almost in alternation mode. We (the jews) this and you (gentiles) that, we (the jews) this and you (gentiles) that.
But almost no one pays attention to that and fall in the pit becoming Calvinists.
Now REREAD, please (It seems that must be a nightmare to you to read The Bible and not just picked verses...):
"FROM PAUL, a bond servant of Jesus Christ (the Messiah) called to be an apostle, (a special messenger) set apart to [preach] the Gospel (good news) of and from God,
Which He promised in advance [long ago] through His prophets in the sacred Scriptures-
[The Gospel] regarding His Son, Who as to the flesh (His human nature) was descended from David,
And [as to His divine nature] according to the Spirit of holiness was openly designated the Son of God in power [in a striking, triumphant and miraculous manner] by His resurrection from the dead, even Jesus Christ our Lord (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
" (Rm 1:1-4)
@Pk Amponn - That was explained. Jesus is not God, but The Creator was inside Him is.
That's The Son = The Creator + the man Yeshua.
The expression "the son became David's" is about the man, the flesh in the same genealogical line that king David was.
The Word was NOT a man in Heavens. Do you understand that?
First, The Creator.
Then HE speaks, HIS Word comes out and things are created.
That's the sense of son.
Then, the plain sense is when He becomes flesh. The Word came.
Not "the son" but all those that followed Him call Him The Son and no more by "The Word" when referencing to The Savior.
There's no three nor two there.
There is ONE Spirit and a human body and soul together.
The Spirit in Jesus is not the same all human Adam's descending has.
And, as we can see Jesus talking like The Creator Himself, and we can see Him crying, suffering, etc. like a man; we can also see Jesus followers calling Him like The Son and Jesus, our Lord (mostly about the man), etc..
One thing don't deny the other.
The man Jesus can be called The Son in flesh because He is The Word and The Word, as you can see in John 1:1, was not a man nor The Son before Jesus exist.
Can you understand that?
The Holy Spirit is not distinct from The Father.
The time is.
The Father is Spirit.
He is saint.
He would dwell inside all those that love His word. Remember?
2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience- 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.[b] 4 But[c] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved
You think that the long recensions of Ignatius are authentic?
My reformed friends will only look at what their theologians say about the subjects I discuss with them. They won't go to resources that I share with them. They just keep going back to what their theologians say about the subject we're discussing because all there theologians have already shown how ridiculous any other way of thinking is, in their opinion. They have to impose their Doctrine into the scripture, and use logic to make it work. Instead of just simply studying the scripture to see what it's saying on the subject matter.
It’s all very confusing and somewhat sad. Is not the debate an “in-house “ one? Is it not something we can discuss without dividing over?
In my opinion, no. Once you realize these are demonic doctrines from ancient Gnostics masked in the name “Christianity” you have to be diligent and do all to defend against it. People must be willing to re-examine the history and have an open mind. Those who continue to believe Calvinism and willingly turn a blind eye to the evidence should be deemed heretical and not to be fellow shipped with. The early Christians wouldn’t even associate with Gnostics because they knew the Gnostic sects were teaching demonic doctrines. Again, just my opinion but I have chosen to disfellowship a Calvinist friend upon reading the early Christian writings. The evidence was too overwhelming to deny. I tried many many times to show him videos, quotes, etc... but he remained close-minded and wasn’t even willing to re-examine. Again, just my opinion but I believe it’s hard to have fellowship with a Calvinist when they blatantly twist and mold scripture and hyper interpret a few passages here and there. They are not willing to go back to the primitive writings and see what Christians believed for 300+ years, they believe that TULIP is the gospel (even though it’s not) and whoever denies it is a heretic.
Calvinist are my Christian brothers and sisters and while some people love to be harsh the truth is there are many good and respectable believers who call themselves Calvinist. I certainly know many churches with both Calvinist and non-Calvinist believers in them. I also have great respect for several preachers whom God has used mightily that are/were Calvinist. That said, I personally spent several months finding a home church where the Pastor was not a Calvinist because Calvinism is really a full worldview and not just a soteriology that I disagree with. Can I worship with and fellowship with a Calvinist? Yes, absolutely. Do I want my Pastor who’s teaching, and guidance I sit under to be Calvinist? No not at all.
At 2:25 to say Calvin admitted with the words, May, Perhaps and Seem is not an admission but sounds like it's the closest he could get to saying he was wrong; e.g., "The woman You gave to be with me gave me of the tree and I may, perhaps, seemed to have eaten it."
This is the final nail in the coffin for Calvinism.
today the day, hey
Dylan Wagoner That’s because most Calvinists are in denial. It’s the same with Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons. You could show evidence to their face, and they’ll reject it out of pride for their belief system.
timffoster Well, Dr. Flowers didn’t make this up. His info comes from actual scholars who read through everything that’s available from the early church and Augustine. Of course the Calvinists will put a spin on history to shed the best light possible in their man-made system. But true objective scholars admit exactly what Flowers is saying. And I doubt you actually have taken the time to do the work these scholars have to see what really went on. The Calvinist excuses are old and don’t accomplish anything anymore. Those days are over.
The poison heresy you've been taught is certain to bury you, man. Reverend Charles Haddon Spurgeon put it best...Calvinism is a nickname for the Bible. Amen!
Jay Brunot 😂
Doesn't calvinism teach compatibism, and not determinism? Why even pray for someone to come to Christ if he just leaves it up to their free will?
Top Hatt compatibilism is no less deterministic than hard determinism - both are Calvinism. Compatibilism just has more philosophic fluff thrown in to distract you from recognizing it as hard determinism.
@Neil Viegas that's kinda the point I was trying to make. I definitely am a firm believer in praying "thy will be done ", but if it's His will, doesn't God's sovereignty and the unbeliever's will work in harmony with their conversion.
@@jaygee2187 I don't claim to be a calvinist, but I do see the will of man being compatible with the sovereignty and free will of God. Maybe the wisdom of God being seen as foolishness to the philosophy of man at play here. It makes sense to me even though I struggled to understand it in the past. Both are supported in scripture, so they must both be true is how I see it.
Top Hatt Not a Calvinist myself, but I agree with you here.
Neil Viegas
“Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.”
Romans 10:1
“I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people- for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.”
1 Timothy 2:1-6
And Jesus kept praying in John 17 after he prayed for his apostles...
““My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.”
John 17:20-21
As joan rivers would say, "can we talk?". I have to say that I am more than a little tired of hearing about the church fathers, many of whom if you read their writings as a whole show themselves to be more than a little messed up in areas. We are guilty of holding them, and their works up to the same Spirit inspired level as the Apostles, which they are not. Hold fast to the doctrines that The Lord Jesus Christ and his Apostles taught, and only those, which by the way are much more basic than the gleaming white towers of doctrines which have been devised over the centuries. When John wrote "even now there are many antichrists" he wasn't kidding or overestimating the flood of error that was, and was about to be sweeping the land. It didn't take long, after the Apostles fell asleep for the church to careen off course, and with each successive generation things just got worse. Our faith and our hope are to be built upon the teaching (doctrine) of the Lord Jesus Christ and His word, nothing else
Who is the elect? How were they elected? Who elected them?
I never get this. What in Manichaeism is considered deterministic?
Only thing I can find is astrology. Of course I remember that Augustine went very hard on Manichaen astrology in his confessions.
Great video. Been watching all of your videos recently. Excellent content and I appreciate your work. I did have a question when it comes to this topic. I found some quotes from early church fathers speaking of determinism prior to Augustine. Curious about your take on these:
1. Augustine of Hippo (354-430): "God judged it better to bring good out of evil than not to permit any evil to exist." (Confessions) "Since God is the highest good, He would not allow any evil to exist in His works, unless His omnipotence and goodness were such as to bring good even out of evil." (Enchiridion)
2. Origen of Alexandria (184-253): "We should believe that nothing happens without a reason." (De Principiis)
3. Clement of Alexandria (150-215): "We have it as a settled principle, that nothing is unconnected with the divine government." (Stromata)
4. Tertullian (155-240): "For who would deny that God is the author of all that happens, of whatever kind it may be?" (The Five Books Against Marcion)
5. Gregory of Nyssa (335-395): "We shall not be justified in declaring, as though it were an impossibility, that there is a certain power of self-determination in ourselves, without which neither punishment nor honor would be justly assigned by God." (Against Eunomius)
6. Irenaeus of Lyons (130-202): "Neither in a good nor in an evil direction, nor indeed in any way at all, has He need of our service; but He demands it that He may confer His benefits and perfect His graces upon us." (Against Heresies)
Best part of the video starts at around 11:45 to the end. Read the primary sources! Come to your conclusions as the Spirit leads. Don’t be ignorant and just take your information from this video as he even advises at the end as if it’s gospel truth. So much church history to be educated on that can’t be done in 12 minutes.
Yes
This is absolutely insane!
I knew there was a reason I never would praise that day
By Paul.
Augustine brought his manichaen gnoticism into the church.
Is there a work comparable in your theological understanding to calvins institutes of the Christian religion?
I would like to study it from your perspective
Thank you
I have to say that I cringed when I heard Loraine Boetner being used as a respected source. His work, Roman Catholicism, lacks credible scholarship. Numerous claims without primary sources to back them up.
Perhaps his non anti-Catholic research and writings are worthy of respect.
Have you considered converting to Orthodoxy?
Wow! This just blew my mind. Thank you very much for your labor!
“Ignatius said to have been taught by the apostle John”? FYI Wikipedia says John died in 100 and Ignatius was born in 108. Minor detail, but thot you might need to know this. Love your show. Thanks for all the enlightenment you give here.
Ignatius was disciples by Saint Polycarp. Who knew apostle John very well
Ignatius of Antioch martyred in Rome in 107 A.D. The ancient historian Eusebius records Ignatius began his episcopate in 69 A.D.
Wikipedia is a good first start but has it's shortfalls.
Most biographies have him born at 35 AD and dying 108 AD so Yeah his timeline make a prime candidate to be an disciple of St John
@@m4641 Anyone who believes Wikipedia is a fool.
Didn't realize you did present Augustine, the root of Calvinism.
Present this teaching every few years, please. Calvin Christians need to understand the roots of these beliefs.
Are these quotes in a book or blog somewhere?
No Calvinist proves calvinism from Augustine, we just read John while you cover your ears.
Jeff Lavenau why did John write his gospel?
@@jaygee2187 because the Spirit inspired him to write what we needed to hear of Jesus' words in John 6, 10, et al. regarding His sheep, who are not everyone, and are the people God chooses to give faith to so that they will receive eternal life.
Jeff Lavenau actually John tells us why he wrote his gospel in 20:31.
@@jaygee2187 his purpose in writing to his immediate audience is not the same thing as why he wrote ultimately in the providence of God. Both are true, your question was not specific.
Jeff Lavenau whose faith does God give to the believer?
A Mormon doesn’t call himself a Christian!
They study the Christian Bible!
Their absolute authority to interpret the Bible is their Book of Mormon!
Ask them any meaning of any verse in the Bible and they would go look in the Book of Mormon for the TRUE meaning." and twist it to Joseph Smiths heresy!
A Jehovah Witness doesn’t call himself a Christian!
They study the Christian Bible!
Their absolute authority to interpret the Bible is The Watch Tower!
Ask them any meaning of any verse in the Bible and they would go look in the Watch Tower for the TRUE meaning." and twist it to Russel's heresy!
A Calvinist didn’t call himself a Christian!
They study the Christian Bible!
Their absolute authority to interpret the Bible is The John Calvin Institutes!
Ask them any meaning of any verse in the Bible and they would go look in John Calvin’s Institutes for the TRUE meaning." and twist it to John Calvin’s heresy!
A Christian call’s himself a Christian!
They study the Christian Bible!
Their absolute authority to interpret the Bible is The Bible!
Ask them any meaning of any verse in the Bible and they would go look in the Bible and look for the TRUE meaning." and believe it for what it says!
Christians rely on the leading and discernment The Holy Spirit promises to give Gods Children. "Not a Guru! That is assurance!
When in history did the Calvinist start calling themselves Christians?
Truth in Love
The so called Doctrines of Grace do not exist.
That term is an invention of a French Cult leader, who wanted to start another Catholic system with infant baptism and the works!
Sovereign grace is another invented term that the cult followers must learn.
But in truth, Isn't it amazing that God describes Himself as merciful and then by His sovereign graciousness offers mercy, love and salvation to every single soul of man, that He ever lovingly created or will ever Create!
We don't deserve it but Grace means offered to those not deserving. Without exception.
God decided to offer salvation because of His great Love. That is MERCY. That is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
All Christians know that! It may seem moronic to a Jehovah Witness, Mormon, Muslim or even a Calvinist, but God's children understand it as milk.
TRUTH IN LOVE
A Calvinist can never honestly say "God loves you" because according to Calvinism God sends many to hell for His own pleasure. That is enough for me to turn and run away from this doctrine of Satan.
The early church fathers were coming out of a time period after the destruction of Jerusalem and a mainly gentile church, which was new to the faith, with only different letters and no equal access of them being circulated until later. Much of it was still being passed in oral tradition as well. Add in Roman persecution and knowing there is always heretical teachers, it was a difficult time for the church. These difficulties would not be fleshed out and a final consensus on scripture until the 3rd and 4th centuries.
I remember reading some of the early fathers and it seemed like works salvation and other issues they believed, we don't accept today, so not that we shouldn't study what they believed, but caution must be taken. There are bits and pieces of reformed doctrine (at least the knowledge that all things are in God's control) in the 1st 4-5 centuries, just like I am sure all of our doctrines today had at least some advocates. I remember reading I think Clement (may have been another one), so I know this first hand. I did this for my own research many years ago, as I was questioning the issue and wanted to see what they taught.
Last and not least. We have the Holy Spirit by which all truths are to be revealed-correct? We have all of the scriptures with hundreds of years now of faithful men coming to agreement on both sides of this and many such men who have done great things for the advancement of the gospel. Also, a high degree of knowledge of the grammar and languages used and a time of no persecution, so it can be studied and applied. So in all fairness, we are actually in a better position than they were to flesh this out.
Mcgragor I would have to disagree with you implying that the Early Church Fathers had no consciences of doctrinal truths handed down by the Apostles. Modern theology today are more confused and arrogant in their own interpretation of Scripture or understanding what was taught or practiced.
Augustine is the central figure in Church history who has moved away from the Apostolic teachings handed down by the Apostles. The vast majority of theologians today have never studied the Apostolic writings and chosen to hold to Augustinian, Luthierism and Calvinism that have led many Christians into false teachings our Lord and His Apostles warned of that was coming in the last days.
We have well over 45,000 denominations today and not one of will agree on all points of Scripture and yet the arrogance of self interpretation of Scripture places themselves above those who were taught by the Apostles.
@@russelljones2305 I didn't say that. Their conscience was fine-read what I said and why we are in a better position today to interpret the scriptures. The Church has the Holy Spirit, which is our teacher. We must never trust in man's interpretations and while we can use outside resources to help us have understanding, our final decision on what a text says or not says is by the text.
Just like the Bereans who listened to Paul and others teach, they searched the scriptures to find out if it was true. We all rely on Greek and Hebrew scholars and men gifted with teaching and knowing the languages, but ultimately we must go to the bible and study it out and see for ourselves what it says. Its not arrogant then to trust what the bible tells us to do to know the truth. You must remember, we didn't even have an agreed upon canon until 300 or 400 AD. Think about that...
So if we have 45,000 denominations who is right? Which denomination is not being arrogant as you say? Did the church fathers all agree with each other in all points? Which denomination is following the church fathers to the letter?
You also would need to prove the vast majority of theologians today never studied the church fathers. Church history is required I believe in every Calvinist seminary. James White is an expert in church history and I know of many reformed individuals who studied and are familiar with church history. In fact, I would argue there are more Calvinist/reformed theologians familiar with church history than the other way around.
@@mcgragor1 do Reformers really go much before Augustine, though? Luther was an Augustinian monk and Calvin was heavy into Augustine as well. It has been my understanding that most reformed circles go from Augustine forward. If that is in error, I'd have to have proof of it.
@@mcgragor1 I think you are misinformed on the canon and 45,000 denominations. Sounds just like what the RCC regurgitate to protestants.
@@tophatt5706 Explain? I got the 45,000 denominations from the other guy, but the canon part is church history.
The Lords atonement was an actual atonement not a potential atonement period
Precisely
The giver of a gift loses no glory if the receiver is to stupid to except it.
Excellent video!
Augustine is a city in Florida...lol
The city was named after the theologian...
Excellent
One of the little advantages of making a decision for others now and then is that it develops something called taste. A worldly thing taste, yet a world there is.
Appreciate your work brother
I cannot agree with Clemens, Ignatius, and Tertullian with their belief that every one has the power of their will to chose life than death and God is justified by sending them to damnation... I believe that it is by their will that they chose to disobey God but they have no power to overcome their desire to disobey God.... =>>>> HERE IS A QUESTION THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED: IS IT JUST FOR GOD TO CREATE CEZAR FROM NOTHING(none-existing) TO SEND CEZAR TO ETERNAL PUNISHMENT IN HELL KNOWING THAT CEZAR WILL DISOBEY GOD?? BUT The Truth that has been revealed by Jesus was not revealed to Clemens, Ignatius, Tertullian, and Calvin.... =>>>> If you read Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV) Jesus revealed in this parable that regarding salvation, there are only two(2) kinds of people in the world... The elect(Sheep) and the reprobates(goats).... In this parable Jesus called them Wheat and Tares.... The elect(Sheep) are the true children of God by heredity... and the reprobates(goats) are the children of the devil by heredity also... God will definitely predestined all His true children to be saved... and will predestined the children of the devil to be cast to the lake of fire... In verse 35 of this chapter, It is said that this Revelation of Jesus was kept secret since the foundation of the world but was revealed in our time through the parable....=>>>> >> >>> >>>> EXAMPLE of the CHILDREN of the devil: Cain, Judas, Some of the Pharisees to whom Jesus said: ''you are of your father the devil''(John 8:44)
Leighton im just wondering what you know about the Canadian reformed Church ?if anything
TRUTH & LIFE I know some..,,questions?
@@jaygee2187 like the history of it ,
TRUTH & LIFE oh boy..,you’re asking quite a question.
To understand how the Can. ref. Church came about you have to understand the insanity of covenantal reformed theology. You have to understand something of the relationship between church and state in the Netherlands in the early 20th century, and you have to know a little about Abraham Kuipers.
The Can. ref. Church started in Canada and USA about 1950 by Dutch immigrants after the war. These immigrants were previously, in the Netherlands, members of the Reformed Churches of the Netherlands (liberated) which had broken away from the Reformed Church in 1944.
So what they divide over? The status of infants in regard to the covenant. It’s all too convoluted to go into here, but the lesson we should learn from it is that once you leave the word of God in favour of philosophy, there is no end to the depth of convoluted thinking that the vanity of man can imagine.
@@jaygee2187 i believe my wifes grandparents are the ones who started it.
@@jaygee2187 did u used to be a member of the can ref church .
Thanks for this video. Two weeks ago I discovered another video by Kevin Thompson (Beyond the Fundamentals) in which he traces the history of Calvinism back to gnostic Manichaeism. I have tried to settle this debate in my mind for years. I have read many books on this subject (some for Calvinism and some against Calvinism) but I could never bring myself to accept that Calvinism was the correct way to believe. Both sides have very good arguments and are very convincing. I did not believe that we could ever know for sure who was correct. But now that you and others have shown the origins of Calvinism, I now have this forever settled in my mind. Calvinism is not correct. By showing the origins of Calvinism, I have come to believe that that is the most convincing argument against Calvinism. The Lord says we can know a tree by the fruit it bears. But both trees (Calvinism and non-Calvinism) have born good fruit. So the obvious thing to do next is to examine the roots. Thank you for exposing the roots of this tree called Calvinism. Thanks again for helping me to resolve this very important subject.
Chris Hadwin
Kevin Thompson - three thumbs up!!!
He offers critical teaching for these times. Lots of material - enjoy!
I had to study this some years back to better understand Calvinism. I asked a silly question, well what happened before Calvin and this Augustine dude? Which both were very divisive but mainly toward catholicism. I am not catholic so I don't technically have a beef but to discover the early church fathers were taught by the apostles i.e. Clement, Polycarp, Ignatius etc. which did not hold to this Calvinism thing. SOLD. Christianity didn't start in the 1500s - go figure!
Could you give a de-calvinized explanation of 1 Corinthians 3:6-7?
_Isaiah.g. _ I didn’t realize that would even be a Calvinistic text, how does this support Calvinism?
@@hjc1402 "The one who sows or waters is nothing, but God causes the seed to grow" -- Calvinist interpretation: Nobody chooses to be saved, God causes the seed of the Gospel to grow within them and cause them to want to be saved.... Not sure how else to interpret it honestly.
_Isaiah.g. _ well the context is about having spiritual wisdom as opposed to worldly wisdom and how you have to be taught and discern and grow in spiritual wisdom.The context said they are already infants in Christ. So they are already saved. I think that’s the problem with most Calvinist proof text they automatically jump to thinking everything is about individual salvation. But the context of this passage is to people who are already saved but young and immature in the faith. They need to be taught and grow in spiritual wisdom and that’s where Paul and Apollos comes in, they are teaching the Corinthians. But God gives the spiritual growth. Ch. 2 verse 11 says a person’s spirit knows the person best and we have God’s spirit in us to teach us the things of God who knows Him best. So while other people teach us and lead us to truths, the Spirit of God in us is also growing us in the wisdom of God.
That’s how I understand this verse. I’m surprised given the context how someone could take from this verse that this is somehow about soteriology and God is forcing this upon us without our choice. That would be some real eisegesis right there.
@@hjc1402 Well Paul was saying that the people of Corinth were being worldy by claiming to be a follower of him or Apollos, but Paul was stating that they're nobodies, God is the one gives it all. But I hadn't thought of that the way you said it, thanks. Really trying to unlearn all the Calvinistic thoughts in my head lol
We work together with God to spread the gospel, but it's God at work in a person's life that really counts.
Reference 2 Cor. 6:1-7 also
I can’t wait to make a video on this 😂
And Calvinists will just keep ignoring obvious facts...
timffoster Right. Augustine was all over the place theologically and made major changes to his beliefs about four times. I really think he shouldn’t be looked at by anyone as an authoritative church father. Protestants and Catholics both pick and choose the beliefs from Augustine they want and trash the rest. At least the Eastern Christians and Anabaptists saw this clearly and didn’t give a flip about Augustine.
So Dr. flowers likes to use the early church fathers does he? I wonder how he feels about the early church fathers and their beliefs on the sacraments.
J. Dean If they were all consistent with something, then we need to consider it. That’s a big arrogant for us in 2019 to say we know better than the leaders God used that were actually closest to the context. You have people like the Reformed Baptists claiming they are correct, but nothing like their theology even existed until well after the Reformation. Believer’s baptism was rejected all throughout history, even by Calvin, Luther, and Zwingli.
J Dean: That does not at all refute his point that, before Augustine, NO church father taught Gnostic Determinism thus proving the roots of Calvinism to be several hundred years after Christ and not from the beginning of Christianity. And I personally wish Leighton and others wouldn't even refer to people born 300 to 500 years AD as "Early" Church Fathers.
J. Dean at least the sacrament issue isn't a salvation issue, like infant baptism ie Augustine, Luther, and Calvin.
@@rtgray7 Four things:
1.) I'm not a Calvinist, but I'm pretty sure a Calvinist would take offense at being labeled either gnostic or deterministic, unless you're including hyper-Calvinism in that category (which really isn't fair to proper Calvinists). As a Lutheran, I believe in single predestination, but agree with Calvinism that election is solely the work of God. That is pretty clear by Scriptural texts.
2.) Again, if Leighton Flowers is going to be consistent with his logic (because he seems to be putting his own logic and reason right up there with the Scriptures in his arguments), why doesn't he embrace the real presence in the sacraments? You can go all the way back to Iraeneus, only one generation from St. John, and find the teaching that the bread and wine (yes, wine, not grape juice, which was not invented until the 19th century) contain the literal body and blood of Christ. So if Flowers is so gung ho about the church fathers as an authority, he needs to understand that he's opening another can of worms that will need to be dealt with.
3.) To be honest, it's hard for me to respect Dr. Flowers on his reasoning. Flowers himself in past youtube videos has publicly given the impression that he is more comfortable with the theology of Charles Finney than Calvinism. Again, I'm no Calvinist, but I have no love for Charles Finney, who rejected Original Sin, taught the moral government theory of atonement, believed in literal perfectionism, and convinced people to trust their own emotional responses as being the work of the Holy Spirit. Finney was a heretic. He rejected the true gospel, despised the substitutionary work of the atonement, and did more damage to the church through his revivalism than can be talked about here. As Flowers alludes to Calvinists being deterministic, I can just as easily allude to Flowers flirting with Pelagianism.
4.) Did you actually look at those quotes? Those quotes I posted don't sound like people make their own choice for salvation apart from God's redeeming grace and election. Heck, if we're going that direction, even the Arminian John Wesley believed God must graciously influence a heart before salvation occurs (albeit in a different way than Calvinism).
@@Mark-oo3om Alright, let's talk about that.
First, infant baptism is a sacrament too.
Second, yes, it actually is a salvation issue. That was why babies were baptized. Now, the Roman Catholic church gets it wrong in that they apply the sacrament "ex opere operato", which means the sacrament works regardless of the individual's faith (we as Lutherans reject this and make clear that the sacrament MUST be received in faith), but the sacrament IS efficiacious. But we believe, based on Scripture, that God works faith in the heart as a gift (Eph 2:8). If John the Baptist as a baby leaped at the voice of Mary, why is it so hard to believe that babies cannot have faith? No, they may not have a full-orbed intellectual faith, but they can believe in an elementary sense nonetheless.
Second, if you read early church history, the overwhelming belief of the church (and I'm talking about within one generation after the apostles) is one of baptismal regeneration and of baptizing infants. With very rare exception, this was the case. Now tell me, if sacramental efficacy is a false doctrine, why do we not read about any major controversy or church council meeting about it, either in the Bible or in history? Why don't we see a split between symbolics and literalists or something? I would point out that it is only during the time of Zwingli that this view begins to change. So how could the church have gotten it wrong for over 1500 years when the early doctrines of the church fathers, again ONE GENERATION from the apostles, taught their efficacy? Even John Wesley believed in their efficacy.
Third: again, Dr. Flowers is opening a can of worms here. If he's going to run to the church fathers for what he believes to be synergism (which I would contend was not something doctrinally worked out, as the church fathers were not dealing with the issue at the time), then why isn't he being consistent and looking at the church fathers in other areas like the sacraments as well? He's opening a can of worms that may end up undermining his position, which sounds a whole lot like the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist position on salvation I heard growing up in the Baptist church.
Fourth, as I said elsewhere, it's hard to respect Dr. Flowers, who sees more in common with the heretic Charles Finney than with Calvinism, which at least understands the historic gospel.
11:02
Calvinism is an idea of man. Nothing more.
Most of the early church fathers were also universalist. Gregory of Nyssa, Origen (though he had some weird ideas), clement of Alexandria. In the early church, there were 6 theological schools, 4 were universalist, 1 was annihilationist, the last was eternal torment. They were eternal torment because the main teacher was Tertulian, the first man to start the Latin tradition.
I've read this before but can never find any supporting documentation. Reading the actual writings of the Church Fathers does not seem to support this view.
@@sorenpx Agreed. This is simply not true. Clement of Alexandria and Origen are not representative of everyone (they were actually teacher and student), and St. Gregory of Nyssa representing his own opinion not held even by his own brother St. Basil. Gregory was greatly influenced by Origen anyway (His Philokalia contained a great deal of material directly from Origen).