Hand Scraping & Fly Cutting Small Angle Plate
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- This was the project I worked on back on Superbowl Sunday. I continued on with some hand scraping of the angle plate, followed up by fly cutting the long side in the K&T mill to get it much closer to square and flat.
Later on I'l start scraping in the long side.
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Hand scraping makes patterns that look cool and a bit alien.
It's so great that you are using tools that your pa', and grandpa' used. Nice to see a continuation
That looks strangely relaxing. You could probably get some good mental thinking time in while doing that. I have a new appreciation for scraping. Thanks Adam.
For a man in his shop, yes it can be. All we need is some soothing strings playing in the background.
Scrape the long side first. Clamp that to a good angle plate, clock it in and mill the short side. Then blue it and scrape it in against the angle plate. Job done.
It's awesome to use your granddads stuff. When my dad passed away, I got his reloading stuff. I remember him reloading bullets with the same equipment when I was a kid. Great Video's!
hand scraping is the machinist's calligraphy
Nice description.
Ahhhh, home sick as a dog; this is just what the Dr. ordered!
Thanks Adam!!!
Nice! We'll make a scraper hand of you.
FYI, the ball machined on the surface gage mast was specifically intended for squareness checking since the tool was introduced a century ago. The surface gage is what I call a "violin tool." it takes long practice to get the best use of it.
There's a ton of scraping info on the "Circuitous Root" website and I'll see if I can find an image of the motorized lap I designed 35 years ago. It takes a 1/3 HP motor, a cast iron disk, and a little woodwork to make a diamond lap costing anything from rummaged junk to $100. Beats a $400 gadget if you're on a tight budget.
Here's the link to Circuitous Root and their scraping bibliography:
www.circuitousroot.com/artifice/machine-shop/surface-finishing/hand-scraping/
Forrest Addy: Thank you for the info: There is hours and hours of good reading at that site. I will be reading it all. If you find the image of the lap machine you built can you send me a copy of it as well? Again thanks for the website recommendation.
Adam once we had a Mattison Grinder get contaminated oil in and it ruined the ways,Fortunately we had two grinders and could switch our diamond wheel to the other grinder and continue production.We hired a retired Mattison scraper that worked for a company called Checkmate.This fellow was very good and scraped our ways in about 2 weeks.He used the electrical scraper for the coarse scraping and finished up with hand scraping.His method was about the same as yours.I asked if I could scrape a little and he let me use his scrapers on one small spot. One was identical to your scraper with the file like handle,and the other scraper had a round handle about the size of a tennis ball.The scraper blades were about the same so I asked why he had two different scrapers,and he said he liked the round handle a little better after scraping all day because of fatigue and he could control the scrapes better.He said all the scrapers at Mattison scraped their own way after years of experience.I just mentioned this in passing ,but I thought you might try one of the round handles and see if it might help control the small scrapes so that it might be easier to get the 20 points per inch that you try for!I enjoy all of your videos including the ones that are not about machining.Thanks for sharing!
Show more scraping. I don't know why, but I absolutely love watching people hand scraping.
hell yeah! cool to see it still going and growing with the scraping! i hope by this weekend i will have my first plate, and with that is coming, a nice right angle, project one, in preparation of restoring a 1930's k&t. thanks again for the lessons, and added knowledge.
Your a class act brother, I like what you are doing. I hear good in a man referring to is dad and grand dad often.
hey Adam you need more distance between the ball and your indicator, if your only an inch away your only measuring within that inch. if it's at .0003" square at one inch, your total over 6" span is over a .001". just an FYI.
.0018" to be exact.
Glad to see the carbide put to good use. One trick i use on several of my handles is cutting a slot in a tennis ball and slipping it over the end of the handle. Sorta gives your hand a bit of cushion when roughing with a hand scraper. You can also get a lot of tape and tape a ball on the side of the scraper when flaking. I never used the hammer method that Richard taught in your class but will give that a try next time. Scraping marks look good Adam!
Hey Adam, use a "screwy" ball or a ball bearing, or gauge pin in the V grove at the front of the surface gauge as your stop, then you can use the stalk of the surface gauge in a vertical position to get measurements higher up on the angle plate.
Wish I was younger Adam - and I'd try and learn this art. Super finish from the flycutter.
Yeah but wisdom does not come with youth.
Well, if power is still on your side, why not try it? There's no time like today. :)
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill!
The best time to plant a tree is thirty years ago. The second best time to plant a tree is today.
how old are you?
Thanks for the video Adam.
It is interesting how were made first machine tools from scratch when there were no machine tools
Today's Lesson....... "Set Abom pressure to ultra low when using squeeze bottles".
Yea, a good one to learn.
first time ive ever seen a adjustable parallel tnx for that
Thank you for the video Adam. You are very inspiring!
It would be interesting to see how the machine side blued up?
Gotta love that natural light when looking at a well scrapped surface. Great stills ABOM! Now you know how Tom feels when filing, peaceful to hand scrape, isn't it :). Oh, had no idea you could use a height gage like that! Thanks for the tip. Take Care.
Now I learned from your video. Thanks. An accurate way for angle deviation.
Hi Adam thanks for sharing. I have never done any scraping but have seen quite a bit of it done at a machine restoration/repair shop I used to visit. Most of their hand tools seemed to have a much bigger diameter handle with a flat back on them. They were probably 3" to 4" in diameter. That style would probably be much easier on the palm of your hand than the file handle when bumping it. If I remember correctly they used their side or hip to push the tool. Looking forward to some more projects in the future. regards from the UK
Yes I will be working on the handle to make it more user friendly for my hands, I just havn't spent any time on that yet.
Nice job on the milling and scraping.
Hey Adam, great videos. I noticed that your indicator point is at about a 45 degree angle to your "master" square. To get a true reading between the gauge and the surface you're calibrating, the indicator tip should be no more than 15 degrees parallel to the surface
Not to mention a huge fly cutter is a terrible choice of tooling, if your mill is out of tram the tiniest amount the surface of your part will have a big concave ditch running dow the middle
Looking good Adan always something new to learn
Really enjoy the scraping content, but also want to commend you on your video editing.
Thanks for sharing
I spend far far far too much time watching hand-scraping on UA-cam. I don't even know why I enjoy it.
thank you Adam
Thanks Adam!! You're the man!!
Thanks for the video Adam I've learned something today so thanks again
Neat trick with the surface gauge and tenths indicator. I may try transferring "squareness" from my cylindrical square (3" x 12") to various squares and angle plates I have. I may not be ready to do anything about non-squareness, but at least I will have some idea about which of my tools are good and which aren't.
Always enjoy your video's and look forward to many more!!
The tramming of the flycutter becomes very critical when M/Cing flat surfaces. Any error in the tramming will produce a hollow surface. It is better to use a good endmill as the diameter is much smaller than the fly cutter radius. and any tramming error is much reduced. The end mill M/C'd surface may not look better than the fly cutter but any hollows are much reduced.
Wow that makes it look like a polished meteorite showing the crystaline structure of it. Nice never seen that or heard of scrapping. Thanks adam maybe try a smaller ball handle?
Lots of work
Thanks man, very nice techniques and pictures !!! Thanks !!!
Mid week Abom video! Bonus!
you may not be a scrapeist yet Adam but your definitely a machinist with the finish you got with that fly cutting
thank you so much for sharing this info. I never knew i could use a surface gauge like that
Thanks for showing us about machine work. some of us are not able to do what you do, but love to watch and fully appreciate the value of how you go about problem solving and measuring so carefully. As an engineer, and former electronics tech, its inspiring....Video comment...I notice that the lights in your shop are not shielded. Often when you take shots, the gopro is looking directly into the lights and it stops down making you and some of the things you show a little darker...Just a thought...keep up the good work. (When I do my first hobby UA-cam publishing, you will get the credit...thanks)
Adam, Hawera makes scrapers and blades, not too bad on price either. I know I had a hard time finding them too, thankfully my employer is quite knowledgeable.
thank you Adam for your videos keep it up
Nice vid ,thats a tidy shop you got there ,very nice,i'l be looking through some of your other vids ...subbed, cheers from Australia
You RELEASED THE SHMOO
might it have been a good idea to zero an indicator on the top of the plate before putting the support under? that way you could be sure you werent pushing up too hard?
Nice Adam, enjoyed!
ATB, Robin
Nice shop , I didn't notice a Surface Grinder though , if you don't have one I would strongly suggest adding one to your shop , very important machine tool for your operation there , that would be the correct way to finish that angle plate , just a suggestion ,
Have fun do what makes you happy good time oh yea like the tunes on this one better
I think the fly cutter makes a nicer surface finish than multiple passes with a smaller shell mill.
Regarding the flatness of the table: I once saw a video about a guy doing lapping plates from scratch to then lap his reference granite block and it turned out really great, he also did a video about getting some rough ideas on how far out the stone is, but I can't find them anymore....
Inspection stuff is really fun! I don't know why.....
Thank you. I learnt from this video.
Relaxing to watch Adam! Hmm...makes me consider some investing in some of the tools for scraping just to use it as a means to relax and meditate. Put on some classical string quartet music and/or classical piano while doing it.
Hey Adam, for Fly Cutting i'm used to take "Ingersoll - IMC" turning inserts in combination with machine bed oil as lubricant. The Surface will be smooth as hell! If you can get your hands on some "Ingersoll - IMC" inserts, try it :-)
Sorry for my bad english.
Best regards from Germany,
Kevin
You can measure the squareness of those 123 blocks without a master square by measuring parallelism, then comparing squareness of the front to the back.
A "cylindrical square" still trying to get my head round that one.
I was wondering how to test for squareness the whole time. Thats a pretty interesting set up.
It would be best to put the ball end of the surface gauge as far to the bottom of the angle plate as possible, and position the tip of the indicator as far high as possible against the plate. That way you can get a better reading along the full height of both plates and the deviations between the good plate and the scraped/machined plate.
A cylinder square (assumed to be straight and non-tapered on either end) will always lean towards only one side when placed vertically on a surface plate, but will always be deadly square along the two sides perpendicular to the side in which it leans. A good way to check the squareness of both angle plates would be to use a cylindrical square and set the zero on the indicator with this process....
Rotate the cylinder while butted up against the surface gauge and indicate along the highest portion of the cylinders OD. Mark the high spot on the cylinder that tilts most towards the indicator, then rotate it precisely 90 degrees in either direction. The two perpendicular 'sides' of the cylinder will now be perfectly square with the bottom face of the cylinder square and surface plate as viewed front-on, and vertically, 'face-on.'
I hope this is useful information. Nice scraping work, and great photography! Thanks Adam.
a lot of good info there
the closeups at the end really helped understand that last segment couldn't see earlier
Great video Adam, thank you, Matt C
Flycutters are kinda cool because they´re old fashioned and usable for large surfaces on small parts, they´re kinda odd as they introduce a lot of vibration themselves as they have only one cutting edge.
hahah that intro line , obviously not a football fan i guess ...lol
here its soccer , that i don't watch ...makes me a bit alien amongst friends
grts from the netherlands
johny geerts
I guess this was from back before you got your cylindrical square. Looks like your vise jaws are pretty true with your head for it to be withing .0003.
this video is an hour old ;)
johnny east this video was filmed on super bowl sunday, Adam has since acquired a cylindrical square FYI
At first I just assumed he had hit his head and was suffering a bit of memory loss as well... But then the annotation corrected the issue.
i see
Yes this was back early Feb and I recently got around to editing the footage.
no one was born knowing every thing you will get it
Can you blue the master and then rub your machined surface while keeping the base firmly on your granite? Then you can see where it touches off.
One thing i wonder, would it not be better for your style of scraping to have a handle that's wider? Kind of like a door knob?
I'm not anywhere near scraping expert, my contact with it is electric scraper at best, but seems to me that it would make for better contact to have a wider handle on it.
Im deffinitely getting in to your content!!!
Ha, you're not the first to be had by a bottle of Canode. I was using a bottle of yellow at Richard's first class at B&K in March of 2016. It blew out all over. It looked like I had killed Big Bird. Thank God it's water soluble.
I repeated the "squeezing the canode bottle" incident last week with the red dye as contrast. My shop looked like a crime scene lol.
Have you tried using the sandvic blades right out of the box? Works amazing and the factory keen edge would take some work to reproduce.
Try it👍
I had never seen this scraping technique before it was interesting but I would just use a surface grinder
if you do it parallel to the vice, you can use parallels and let the lip hang over, also to clean it up, speed up the RPM's some, and reduce feed. You're not taking much off.
+chronicblazer84 trick when getting chatter is to reduce rpm, not speed it up. I set it to machined face would be square to the short side. Clamping it parallel would cause more set up issues being that it's not machined on the sides.
Abom79 You do make some valid points. I always use a beveled steel square (you do have one flat side and a machine bed to reference). You can pick up a good machines square set for ca. $60-$80 on eBay. Regardless I enjoy your videos, and learn new tricks from you.
round scraper tips allow you to remove more material then square
Phil Kerner puts a bumper on his surface gauge to check squareness.
great video,
the shaper!
I can understand using scraping to achieve a large flat surface but I don't understand why a small surface is scraped instead of lapping the surface with a fine abrasive. Thanks for posting. I know that it takes quite a bit of effort and I appreciate that you take the extra effort.
I can understand flaking a surface so there are reservoirs for lubrication. That makes sense and the thin film of the correct lubricant can float the parts and reduce friction. But, I don't understand scraping an angle plate. I'm going to try and study the subject more.
What would you lap it against? I think the idea is to be able to non destructively transfer the flatness of your surface plate to your workpiece with ink. Then take away any high spots with the scraper. If you lapped it on a surface plate, it wouldn't stay flat for long! I believe there is a method for using three "flat" surfaces to lap them all in but that is received wisdom and so far as I am aware, only for generating a reference surface, not for machining a workpiece.
I had Marley Marl Scratch playing in the background, I thought for a second you added that for your intro.. it was pretty awesome watching it like that. Not sure what type of music you're into but if you can fit some in within the copyright restrictions, It'd be cool to see another extension of your personality.
My god i have never seen anything like this. Firstly we made our scrapers from old files, second you will never be able to back hsnd scrape like that. And third you left hand should slihtly rotate to produce the bird like pattern. And finally all scrapers should be sharpenedmy oil stone with a very large radius on the end. This will give back hand and forward bird patterns. By the way we did this on machine tool slides way back in the 1960s. This was the first thing Apprentices learnt in the fitting shops.
Did you make sure before milling the angle plate that the two clamped faces of the angle plate are actually parallel?
Why not blue up the reference square and rub the two together face to face and see when the blue rubs off on the freshly machined surface?
That's a Lost Art Hand Scraping
I’m curious about scraping. What’s a good channel to learn from?
Adam...... By watching some of your video's, making things square and flat is fairly straight forward, but where do you start on something that is already built. I have a combination vice that I got from Harbor freight, and nothing is straight or flat, which makes drilling and squaring parts hard todo. Are there any ideas on this or chuck it and get something better? It is one of those vices that move "x" and "y" for a drill press.
It looks like scraping is a very long process, with a good ending.
Keep up the good work!!!
Most of all, just have fun!!
Michael M.
Do you improved camera or what camera it is? Do you use some gimbal? The picture is so crisp even on 480p, soo good. (watched first minute so far, but it just caught my attention)
I'm not that regular viewer so a half year is recent enough for me.
I'm using my Gopro Hero 4, and some shots are with a gimbal mount.
Nice to know, seems to be good setup. Thanks.
Would that .0004" just be over the 1" height or so that the ball was at? Over the whole length of the face that would be .002"-.003" of out of square? Just curious. You did a great job bro.
Not tempted to blue the fly-cut surface just to see how much it deflected during cutting? Might be interesting!
It's called a "fly cutter" because the chips go flying through the entire shop ... right?
And also right into your mouth!
Adam - the granite squares are at Standridge for like $220. Tell em' Stan ya. I have one and it's AWESOME.
What's the music at the end? I can't get enough of it.
Also, I just bought a mill from the guy who inherited a shop that made accu finish machines. He has tons of the old castings and parts, some assembly required lol
Okay, where did you put Adam Booth? That's not the right intro music! :)
Trade tom out of his spare cylindrical square he made 😊
Nice photos at the end of the video Adam! Are they from your newly acquired A6000?
Yes they are . I do enjoy using it on jobs that are completed to try and get some more detail fo them on screen.
couldn't you adapt a light weight sliding hammer on to the back of the scraper? the constant knocking using your hand over time can damage the tendons in your wrists
Mr Booth, didn't hear of see it, but what rpm did you have while fly cutting? Looks like a standard phase one Bridgeport, and I'm looking at doing the same op at work
Would it be appropriate to scrape the side you milled? Would, if yes, you scrape the milled side to make it more flat or to improve the very slight angle error?
I plan on scraping the machined side yes, I needed to get it much closer then it was.