This 1/10,000 drop could RUIN my account
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
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You mentioned trying the meals and how convenient they are, but having checked the link after considering giving it a go, they don't deliver to the uk which im pretty sure is where you said you are based. Am I missing something and there is a Uk version somewhere, or you just saying it cos the ad asked you to?
Your solution to pvp and the wilderness. Move pvp strictly to bounty hunter, it's what it is there for. Pking and making free money for being in danger.
thanks sir fraybow the first
@@TheShineyT HelloFresh owns Factor and I use HF all the time
Sudzf😂😂❤I have nd😂2Dwd
9:45 this is my biggest gripe with BOTH gamemodes in general. OSRS devs continue to pump out wilderness content that targets PvPers against non-PvPers when they could very easily turn PvPers against each other. RS3 devs on the other hand gave up and allowed people to opt-in or out of pvp lmao
What content do you suggest to turn pvpers away from pvmers and back towards eachother? From my perspective the idea they were going for with Wildy PVM was high risk, high reward which is what it currently is. If there was no risk of getting pked there's no reason for wildy content to be as good of a money maker as it is. I just don't know of a way that what you're talking about could be achieved, but I'd love to hear it. If we had the option to opt out of pvp then they would have to heavily nerf wildy content, which I'm sure would be met with a lot of mixed opinions.
@@BlowGlassI think just reducing resource drops to a quarter if playing non-PvP seems fair. I think unique rates shouldn't be changed, but ether for revenant weapons should be reduced for example.
As for making something actual PvP, there needs to be some incentive to do it, but as things are it's just infested with RMT and other such nonsense.
@@CottidaeSEA Bosses should not be dropping skilling resources anyway. Why have skilling even be an option if you could just go do a boss and get loads more than you could just skilling. Thats one thing the Rs3 devs did right was getting rid of a lot of resource drops from bosses.
@@drpepper1132 Yeah, but that's a much bigger change and would be a long term solution. RS3 is much better in many ways.
“Don’t go to Wildy then baby”
“Jagex please fix wildy pvp is dying”
Literally no PKer says this. Wildy is fine, regardless of how much PvMers are whining.
I think ultimately, the problem with PKers vs PVM is that it's not really fair. It's onesided. Especially at Vet'ion, you either instantly hop worlds, or you die.
At least in the rev caves, there was a chance to outplay them. You could engage with it, you could get lucky, you could show skill.
You had a lot of fun when you could outplay and escape. But that's the key - there was an opportunity to outplay them.
If the whole engagement is "If you get caught, you die" then it's not fun.
But let's be real - you can't fight back. You don't even want to fight back. Your only goal is to escape. And their only goal is to kill you. And when that relationship becomes too simple, when there's nothing to engage with -- it becomes unfun.
I'd argue the big culprits are running vs freezes, teleporting vs teleblock --- those aren't particularly interesting interactions, but they define the vast majority of encounters. There's no skill in whether you get frozen or not. You can't juke a freeze, or interrupt a channeled ability. That's just a limit of the game.
But for real -- when they log in at a time when you can't hop, they freeze you and you can't run --- you just die. You have no chance, no agency, nothing to engage with. That's when it's all frustration and no fun.
They really should add some sort consumable antifreeze to the game to eaven out the playing field.
Lets be real, the games combat is already bad, but PvP? It's laughable that Jagex think they can make RS PvP a thing, movement is laggy, the tick system is terrible, it's mostly just RNG, etc. Personally I've just refused to interact with it and use a plugin to auto-log and insta tele when a PK'er shows up, that's how bad it is. PK'ers are genuinely pathetic freaks that literally just play the game to ruin other peoples gameplay as actual PvP'ers aren't PK'ing at PvM content.
Freezing should lock the caster in place for one or two ticks when casting and there should be diminishing returns on the immobilize effect that are quite significant. If someone can tank a few freezes then they should be rewarded with immunity for a while.
@@oBCHANoI think RS3 PvP is pretty cool, but holy shit, you get nuked even harder than in OSRS which is insane. The depth of the combat system is neat though, I just wish people didn't hit you for 90% of your max health in a single hit. They come from outside your range, smack you once real good and then just throw a basic ability in your general direction and you're gone.
Both versions have the same power creep problem, really.
You assume pkers want to fight other pkers, but they don't, they just want their pinatas.
In regards to your pvpers killing pvmers comment, the people who find fighting pvpers fun are not the ones killing you. The ones killing you are the ones who find killing pvmers fun. In my experience, the people killing you tend to run away from other pvpers.
The wilderness originally was an area where each party was incentivized to fight each other because there was literally nothing else to do in the wilderness in 2007. Sure, you can go kill Chaos Ele for D2H. Or maybe you want to run to the abyss to runecraft. But you could also just use the regular rc altars. Other than Chaos Ele, there was no exclusive content in the wild. The main purpose for going there was to fight other people. As time goes on, people started complaining that "pvp is dead" because everyone wants to the new pvm content to make money. The problem is that they started adding pvm content into an area that wasn't made for pvm.
So Jagex did a "wilderness rejuvenation" which was a bandaid solution of putting insane moneymakers in the wilderness. Pvp is still "dead", because pvpers killing pvmers isn't the pvp that people remember from 2007. It's just attacking people who don't fight back. If you pvp, that should be for fun, not for consistent gp. Pvp had always been about "I'm better at this than you", not "This needs to compete with x moneymaking method". Jagex forced the wilderness to be a huge part of the game in order to cater to a certain audience.
Great comment.
Tanking pkers is an interesting skill in the game and having an arena to better your skills just helps the overall game. I'm sure more pvmers over the years of wildy rejuvenation has inspired players to expand their gameplay into pvp. Their approach is ingenuis and actually betters their product. If wildy was the #1 money maker I'd understand that it would force the community to be more at odds against each other but pvmers have much more oppurtunity grinding many differenct facets of content for better rewards. If you are bad at the game wilderness is probably your best money maker which is fair because easy gp should come at cost for a good echo system. As for irons you chose the gamemode you are playing. You don't have to get a voidwaker to progress your account. There are so many other spec weapons I don't even have to list them as you can think of other options. If you are completionist, Wildy content makes up a very small portion of over all content in the game
It might be better to think of the Wilderness as it's own minigame. You don't have to do it for progression, but it helps speed up gp goals. People can attack you and you can chose to fight back or run away. It's unique and it adds a layer to the onion that is runescape
"Jagex forced the wilderness to be a huge part of the game in order to cater to a certain audience."
I'm not a PK'er but what's wrong with Jagex trying to make the game fun for as many different types of players as possible? You think they don't design quests/pvm rewards with the Ironmen audience in mind? It's a sandbox MMO -- no one is forced to go into the wilderness. People WANT wildy upgrades from the wilderness's EASY bosses, but don't understand the bosses are only allowed to be so easy because getting PK'd is essentially a boss mechanic.
I think that tanking PKers is a great skill like you mentioned. Feel free to bring your dihn’s bulwark, torags and veracs to Vetion in addition to your chainmace, ether, and other offensive gear that’s gives dps on kill the boss. Now you’re risking even more than before.
The pkers killing people in the wilderness generally have very low risk. More-so in multi where they have teammates because it doesn’t matter how bad your gear is if you have 2 friends also attacking.
@@BrendanCardenas I understand where you’re coming from. The point that we’re trying to make is that nothing’s wrong with making the game fun for as many people as possible. I 100% agree with you. The issue is that people are trying to have fun by killing the boss. Getting killed by another player when your goal is to kill a boss isn’t really fun for most people. Imagine you’re doing CoX and your teammate intentionally starts trying to make you die. Is that fun when you’re there to kill the boss? Some people do enjoy tanking and anti-pking. But the majority of people bossing in the wild are not there to have fun via pvp. You’ll find people who like pvp doing things like “pvp only ironmen” or in bounty hunter, or in pvp worlds.
By putting exclusive content in the wilderness (pets, combat achievements, etc), you are effectively forcing people to engage in pvp. I’m not sure of any other non-pvp focused mmo (osrs is not a pvp focused mmo) that forces people to engage in pvp content in order to progress their character.
16:00 the biggest problem with this idea is that botters can abuse it. Its basically bounty hunter that your describing, and we all remember how bad that was for the economy... they lose no matter what
What if it was death safe? Like you got points but like castle wars bring your own gear. Should remove incentive for looting but base points based on something mechanical
@@Br0ken_Rob0ts if its not worth enough that every zone is patroled, there will be bots who are designed to just to hide and sit there and run away as best they can. If it is worth the players time, it will reward pvp bots that are maximized. Theres tons of bots already that some fo the best PVPers cant beat due to tick perfect reactions.
no matter what, the problem comes back to bots....
31:20 "tossweasel" is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the most British insult I have ever heard
I personally prefer "pissweasel"
I think a lot of pkers actually see pking as a money making method rather than something they do for actual fun. Since so many people in the wildy are doing it for money at things like Revs, pirates, wildy bosses, etc there is a lot of free loot to be had there. Those pkers are coming into the wildy in rag gear like Mystics/salad robes and black/mixed hide. They might not be having a ton of fun but they probably see it as more interesting than killing fever spiders or something for money.
This is largely what the wildy updates have been geared towards as well. By introducing people to pking via baby-activities like chaos alter pking or the rogues chest it makes the wildy a lot more active. You get a lot of bad pkers too which incentivizes bringing in a tiny bit of gear to try and anti-pk them if you are even remotely capable of pking. The new hunters crossbow with moonlight bolts is better than a MSB(i), the new mixed hide has a great strength bonus and is basically free, mystics/salad robes are cheap as hell, the spell sacks make it easy to bring in freezes, etc. For very low-cost you can bring a very solid tri-brid setup that can effectively do things like revs, zombie pirates, black chins, wildy bosses, etc. People (not you, just many osrs players in general) are very fixated on the idea that pkers are predators and that they are prey, and the wildy updates have been largely an attempt to make people start acting like predators themselves. This has had mixed results, but I think the high amount of low-skill pkers in the wildy these days is actually symbolic of a success imo.
Pking should be heavily disincentivized and even punished, if Jagex wants a healthy playerbase instead of toxic nonsense. They are genuinely the worst sort of person.
@@NecrosAcolyte Sounds like you are a pretty terrible person yourself... You a pker?
LMS, PVP Arena, PvP worlds, High Risk worlds, bounty hunter, permanent deadman mode. They've done things to encourage actual PvP combat. There's just a large group of pkers who are solely interested in the easy money of killing people who aren't trying to engage in PvP.
>people who aren't trying to engage in PvP
But went to the purely-optional, singular PvP area in the entirety of the game?
True …
@@squigs1500 A) Not singular. See the list you replied to B) Only optional if you want to completely ignore the clues, collection logs, combat achievements, unique resources and drops. None of which are tied to participating in PvP. C) You're exposing yourself here and we all know it
@@squigs1500 so you are one of those assholes killing people just trying to complete a clue scroll got it 🙄
@@neodemonhawk A) All I see are instanced minigames and separate worlds. Where's the other PvP area of the map? B) Going to the PvP area of the game is inherently agreeing to possible PvP participation. C) Your complaining about people playing the game as its clearly designed to be played is all that's been exposed here.
Just a heads up in case you didn’t know, hitting the logout button is 1 tick faster than the world hop function
Guys, guys... what's bothering Fray here isn't even the loss of Vet'ion loot; it's the loss of revenent ether. And this is from a guy who's grinded revs for 5 months and is only trying to green log one boss. That actually IS unsustainable.
My proposed solution: an ether trader that functions exactly the same as the emblem trader.
You give him gp, he gives you ether.
If this winds up being slightly profitable, it's perfect.
Mains can go in for a chance at quick buck, ironmen can stop feeling scammed by their hard-earned rev weapon, and PKers will have just that many more targets to hunt down.
win-win-win
He should use another weapon than
@@FirstNumber1 what weapon?
@@HeavyMetalGamingHD that one that hits monsters and that maybe has a spec bar
@@FirstNumber1 dragon daggers are the only real spec weapon he seems to have. that's so much less dps than with a rev weapon. grinding out ether and using the chainmace is much faster per kill.
the DD is worse than a rune scim as a weapon
There are three* types of PVMer in Wildy: irons who can’t get their uniques any other way, bots, and real people who are willing to put up with PVPers killing them for the hourly income.
I’m not sure that third kind actually exists.
Killing Undead Zombies for consistent 10-20k drops is no risk, repetitive, and should be boring, yet you see players doing it nonstop. No challenge, no repercussions, just easy farming that pays decently. This is an accepted mentality - same principle applies to Slayer.
Just opposed when you're the Slayer monster being farmed for drops.
2:44 Fray entering his boomer humour era
they should just add the "opt out of pvp" as a option, when you; "lock-in to be ironman forever" problem solved because when your iron man you cant trade
Not entirely sure since I haven't tested anything whatsoever, but there appear to be some strange interactions with so-called "overkill damage" in the game (Eclipse Moon on release being one of them). The dual macuahuitl dealing overkill damage might be the reason why Vetion died after its first phase at ~ 1:04:00
The Elder Scrolls Online has a rather toxic PvP/PvE interaction as well, where they've put quests and other PvE activities in PvP zones. Truth be told, I didn't mind this--I actually liked the element of danger--but then they turned some of these quest hubs into PvP objectives as well, making them very obnoxious. The worst is when they have special events with PvE objectives set in the PvP zones, and you get all the lowlifes coming out to camp those objectives and farm the questers...
You claim that it must not be fun for the PKers to kill PvMers--and I used to think that way about ESO's system as well. But I think we're wrong. I think it IS fun for these people, because it gives them an ego boost, makes them feel better about themselves. We can speculate on which kinds of people actually derive pleasure from such a thing, but then they'd just come along and try to gaslight us: "It's just part of the game, man; you're in a PvP zone, it's what we do here; don't want to get killed, go somewhere else." 🙄
Fray: omg the bots are terrible in this area!
Also Fray: There should be an area where you get gp for just existing.
For real, Fray must have just had a lobotomy appointment before that monologue
Pkers dont want to kill Pkers, they want free loot. That's the issue
They are used to picking on pve people so when most of them get caught by someone actually decent they tend to lose 😂
@@jakeoshayoh nooo some people are better at the game I play pvp for fun in
So?
Yep. They're pathetic, misanthropic bullies. They should be booted out of the community entirely, not catered to.
Especially when the game doesn't give incentive for them tl fight other players because unless they kill more than they die they lose money on supplies or break even and it's not worth their time.
Why do pvmers do easy monsters that drop a lot of gp? They want free loot. There is no difference. Some people like raids, more engaging and more loot. Some people like to tribrid 1v1 because its more engaging and more loot. Different players enjoy different things. Nobody is being forced at any time to participate.
I feel like the easiest fix to the wilderness pvp would be to get rid of teleblock and not limit teleporting in any part of the wilderness. If someone can spec me out completely while I do pvm, thats fine i guess, but if I want to leave, I should be able to leave.
I also find it extremely frustrating that the bots at revenants are so difficult to kill so pkers target real people instead.
I did the wilderness diaries and go to the wilderness for some clue steps. Other than that there's no way I wanna waste gp/time in the wilderness. Waste of content in my opinion
At its core pvp isnt popular in general in 90% of game with both pvp and pvm. As for your idea with the loot zone, in practice with other similar things being done before it just gets abused by a clan taking up each world and just police the zone , or gold sellers pay a pvp clan irl money to guard them for more rmt. 99% of normal players would never be able to use a loot zone like that.
Might be a slightly unpopular opinion but I actually like doing pvm bossing in the wildy because it's in the wildy. The fact that someone could come kill me at any time makes it way more exciting and enjoyable imo, especially given the wildy bosses are rather simple as bossing is concerned.
not everyone enjoys wasting time
@@kevindamon9051 Then don't go into the wildy :)
Theres no update that will force pk'rs just fight pk'rs. There will always be some shitters who are afraid to fight other pk'rs, therefore they look for someone to kill who won't fight back.
there is, if you make pvp opt in. they did it in rs3 and it worked well.
I was waiting for this episode. Was looking today. And here you are. FINALLY
So funny to see the "behind the scenes" from the streams and the eventual video
Went from losing your job to becoming a full time streamer/youtuber. I’m so happy for you brother.
Grats from America!
Just to prefix this, I absolutely love PVP in RS and I miss it dearly. BH was probably one of the best updates in a super long time. But your point about them not finding killing you fun is where you missed the really disturbing and most frustrating part about the reason many of them do find it fun and why Jagex incentivizing these types of interactions is so unhealthy for player relations on a social game. The process/act of killing you is not fun for them. However, wasting your time and pissing you off is fun for them which is inherently absurdly toxic. You explained that half the players involved do not enjoy the content, but I think the effects are even worse personally. Not only do half the players not enjoy the content or find it fun, half the players actively despise the other half for enjoying/participating in wasting their time for mostly troll-esque entertainment. Really unhealthy player interactions to be prioritizing in my opinion.
Sorry but your 2nd idea for pvp worlds is insanely broken. The fact that people standing there will get loot without doing anything will just incentivize a bunch of rag bots to pile anyone not in their script/ecosystem. First idea has been suggested a few times but people just downvote it to hell because "just dont go wildy" or "why should the game cater to ironmen" geniuses like to spam their 2 liner to whatever ideas they dont like.
The reason people say that is because it's true? This is runescape. Yes, this system isn't really in any other game, but that's the point. This game is unique in many ways and the wilderness is part of the game. If you don't like it don't go. Also, don't take rev weapons if you don't want to lose the ether.
Rs3 has 0 bots osrs could just solve the bot problem lol
@@killinit6265 You get pked by shit pkers regardless weather you take your rev weapon or not, so you might aswell bring the rev weap to get a decent kc/h
@@killinit6265 no the real point is that fray misunderstanding pkers. He is just falsely assuming that pkers want combat. They just want other people to not have fun that's how they have fun.
Everything else he said was right though it forces the existence of essentially two groups that are against each other. People who want to do PvE content and people who want to hunt them. The third group of people who want to hunt other pkers are so small they basically don't exist.
In my opinion I think Pvp sucks but if they want to keep it fine. Just stop adding necessary PvE to it.
Standing there doing nothing and getting money is a bad idea like you said. But Fray is 100% right when he says that one person involved in the fight doesn't want to be there. The alternative option is to "not go to the wilderness", but that's not a fair statement when you force certain items (voidwaker, rings, etc) to be obtained there. You're just forcing people to deal with pvp in a game that was built upon pvm and skilling.
12:04
i think the problem is that we (ironmans) share the same worlds and rules as them (mains). ironman has nothing to do with pk for money, and mains do it mostly for money.
Yeah, honestly they could fix the wildly pretty easy by making non pvp worlds with much lower drop rates. Like 1/4 drops so the bosses and revs aren’t that profitable and getting uniques is difficult, but the frustration would be gone.
Yeah some ironman only worlds could work. Though then you would have ironman alts PKing and dropping their loot to their mains.
I swear half these PKers are just bots though. It's hard to keep them out of the game in time to not affect real players without creating ban resistant bots.
@@buzz1ebee
i have no problem with this. if someone grinded his a$$ off to get the skills, and than grinded for another couple hundred of hours for the setup to pk me, it is ok with me. it will not be a bot. it will not be some $hit that trained only on crabs and got easy money and setup in the GE.
i would probably hate it. but i will hate not even half of what i hate now.
another banger episode. THo took a while come back. Also i do think its a bit hot take for go worlds where no wilderness freee areas (beacuse of bots) and it shouldnt work that wilderness would be risk free at any point. We pvmers do consent them coming after us by going wilderness to farm but we also have opportunity anti-pk them (excecpt chunkmen or restricted accounts).WIlderness purpose is have high risk high reward which poisonedpotion makes a good suggestions how to better wilderness activity, tho I do agree that there should be way to discourage pkers come to those areas (which mostly happens on calvarion etc) like they should not make players lose ether on death or atleast keep half of charges so you dont need re-activate weapons everytime with 500k worth of ether. So they would think will it be worth to go after pvmers/skillers who are in wilderness. That being said: There definetly should be areas that encourages pkers go after other pkers more often than going after skillers or pvmers. Bounty Hunter is already attempt to that but some pkers just loves go after pvmers in general for some juicy loot chanses.
13:42 dude, make it even simpler than that, cross into the wildy get hopped to a wilderness world, choice of like 2 sets 15 worlds, one f2p and the other members, have something like a scrying tool to check the world out before crossing to prevent jumping into a clan
Honestly slightly annoying to hear you complain about PvP when, as a streamer, it literally gives you free content. I understand your frustration, but it's the wilderness. You are incorrect in assuming there are only predators and prey. I'm an Iron who loves to anti, and I have no intention on actively PvPing. The only PvP action I get is when a pker gets on me and 9/10 I escape or anti. The wilderness isn't designed around people (not you) who bring nothing to aid in escaping. If you (in general) bring a rune cbow and dhide you're likely to escape almost every time.
Multi is bullshit though 100% agree with you there. I avoid multi at all costs, and unfortunately you can't. Good luck on the grind, hopefully you get pet soon.
This is probably the last time I watch any of your videos. I'm tired of this podcast-ish complaining about PVP when you yourself have locked your account to these type of rules and play style. You either do it while enduring the game mechanics, or just give up and stick to something more casual.
The idea you have for people standing about making money in a certain section of the wildy will just end up with a protection racket similar to how revs used to be on total level worlds.
I agree, but the Revs protection rackets only worked because they protected like 3 worlds, making it too much agg to go in and take them when you could easily just go to another one of 100+ worlds. The protection rackets don't work so well if there ARE only 3 worlds. Suddenly the upside is high enough that big alliances can form to try and take the world's
@@FrayRS yeah that's a fair point. Tbh I actually loved the revs protection racket. I never used their services to to revs but PvPing there was so much fun. Bringing rag gear and going with a clan to fight a bunch of people also in rag gear was a good time
The main issue I see that jagex would have with that system is the amount of gp that would be brought into the game, therefore flooding the economy with way more gold than there needs to be. I think a large amount of blighted supplies or something would be a lot more fitting or something like that, as it doesn't really affect the economy that much as they're all consumable items which are deleted from the game once consumed
I respect the desire for people to want pvp. I think pvp should be allowed to exist in Runescape.
But it shouldn't come at the cost of cannibalizing other player's experience. Which as it stands now in osrs, it very much does 99.9% of the time, since most of the people that get pk'ed don't fight back and are carrying essentially welfare gear and are just trying to mind their own buisness. imo its just bad design to have a place where pvp exists, where the pvp is non-consensual like that.
I like how RS3 does it, where pvp is there if you opt in, and in exchange they just made the pvm challenges in the wilderness much more dangerous to compensate.
I enjoy your content but I did think you were "just a crybaby" when getting frustrated on camera. I appreciate the rant about pvp, love the amount of content!
Forced pvp suuuuuucks, cant even do the cooking gauntlets quest without wildy
if you keep your eyes on the screen you can always log out instantly as soon as you see someone.
@@BlowGlass not with my shitty australian internet
16:14
Your opinion is crazy dude
If you don't want wilderness to be wild, play RS3... They did that and ruined the game
Turn on the "Auto-Equip items on death" thing from the normal rs settings, will make death that much convenient.
So an update from the future, the 2nd phase skip at Vet'Ion was real, but they just patched it out today.
pvp is supposed to stand for player vs player, not predator vs prey.
designing a system where some players are prey is shit design
99% of jmods stop adding pvm updates in the wilderness JUST before they finally revive pvp
12:25 Yes.
Edit: Fray, you make great content, but holy shit your PvP takes in this episode are braindead. You literally described the exact risk vs reward Jagex is going for with the PvM, Agility course, etc but instead of doing an activity (where your loot goes into a looting bag, leaving you with healthy supplies, BTW) you just say people should get money for doing nothing so they can fight each other??? Just listen to your own words, lmfao it's hilariously sad.
Regarding the whole 'non-consensual PvP' idea, you walked into the wildy voluntarily. If you feel like you are forced into the wildy then re-examine your reasons for playing. If you want to do content that's in the wildy, you have to deal with the wildy like everyone else.
And finally, 38:47 - That's what she said
The main point is the fact that there are waaaay too many worlds and waaaay too many activities - if you wanna make the hotspots an agility course, fine, but there needs to be about 3 of them gamewide
I agree with everything you said about pking, shit straight sucks, worst part of the game bar none
You have the mod that hides your world but in the chat it says quick hopping to ….?
I think the biggest part of the problem that no one really mentions is that the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't find pvp fun. I don't think most pvpers find pvp fun either - they're interested in outnumbering or outgearing people who are otherwise occupied and won't/can't fight back. There's a select few people who genuinely want to fight other people (you can see this when watching pvp steamers, they tend to know who's alt it is when they're fighting pures - because there's so few people who enjoy pvp enough to make a pure that they all know each other. "Fair" pvp content will never be widely popular without a major pvp rework. "Unfair" pvp might piss off the PvMers, but for most people, they can opt out by not ever going to the wilderness, or run gear that risks nothing (so the only risk is time) to minimize the "level-of-pissed-offness".
So it makes sense from a design perspective why the wilderness exists, and is the way it is, if you want to have open world pvp.
I think this leads to another question, which is why most people find osrs pvp undesirable. I think that's due to the high skill ceiling combined with the amount of risk you will lose improving at it. If you're a new player, how do you beat someone like Torvesta? First, you need to max an accounts combat stats, get all of the untradeable uniques that are useful to pvp, gather billions of gp to buy several sets of gear, and then try to pk players better than you, fail over and over, and maybe after a few years you start to win more than lose.
That's... generally unattractive to most people. It's an extremely time intensive process for a reward that might not even exist. And that's the problem you have to solve if you don't want the wilderness to be hunting down PvMers who don't want to participate.
One of the few people I have heard describe well how stupid Jagexs mindset towards the wilderness is. Pvm/Skilling are an awfully stupid way to stimulate a flow of NON PVP ORIENTED PLAYERS into an area for pvp
It's definitely not stupid. In fact, I'd say the wilderness is pretty balanced:
- Easy bosses with some moderately good loot (most of the good loot is also wilderness related, like blighted stuff), and a good drop that is useful mostly for PvP (voidwaker).
- PvMers are incentivized to go to get the drops I mentioned. These drops are definitely not essential, so you agree to the risk of wildly, and don't feel forced to do it (unlike some other content, which you feel forced to do)
- PvPers are incentivized to go there to kill other PvPers (fun for them), but also, since the wildy is not very active with PKers, they can get some "free money" by killing PvMers (which is totally fair. the PKer is skulling up to kill you, and you're losing nothing in gear, and next to nothing in supplies. The PKer being there is a ton of risk, so I think it's fair for them to get some easy money)
@@emuhast see, the thing is if you were to kill the average pker that gets on you, you’d actually get less loot from them than they’d get from you. They’re all 1 iteming in salad robes and black d hide. So the vast majority of them actually aren’t risking anything. A simple 2x dragon plateskirt drop combined with rev ether you’d lose on death would be worth more than the loot from antipking the average pker in an average setup
@@brothabuzz Yeah. The average PKer using salad robes and 1 iteming is also not killing you (at least they shouldn't, if you know how to escape them). Even so, the PKer is risking all of his items except 1. You are risking ether and a 2 kills worth of supply drops. It 100% makes sense.
Don't get me wrong, I also hate being attacked by pkers (I dont do any pvp), but Fray's take is dumb
@@emuhast his suggestion on changes is definitely not good. But I understand his perspective of forcing people to engage in a fight where they just want to pvm. In majority of cases, it’s not just 2 kills worth of loot on you. And also, in his specific case, though, not everywhere in the wilderness, there are multiple guys in salad robes / d hide. That is enough to kill you.
@@brothabuzz The only reason he *needs* to stay in the wildy is because of his own account choices. You don't have to be in the wilderness ever. In fact, many hardcores never cross the ditch, and can have the same account progression. Also, he's choosing to kill the multi version cause it's less hours. He could totally be doing Calvarion and escape every time.
The rings arent worth shit. Rev weapons are good, but if you don't plan on staying in wildy, you absolutely don't need them. If you really want the voidwaker (hardly a necessity, mostly an anti-PK weapon), killing some very easy bosses, it makes sense that you are going to be hunted.
Good videos but u complaning and laughing after every escape makes it annoying to watch.
The pvper people dont want the pvp vs pvper since all of them would have to literally git gud at it
But the Rush you got 24:00 is why its made to get everyone into fighting back
Pro tip for the ladder: go out without gear. Change left click to go up and shift click to go down! So much easier and faster!
The vetion death bug is probably due to the double hit splats of the Macuahuitl
Too much complaining. Basically complaining about Jagex giving you a better weapon option to use. You don't have to use the wildy weps. A few years ago that wasn't an option and people could still kill Vetion. So if you don't want to lose ether just use another weapon.
Also, it's VERY fun to kill pvmers, and you yourself seemed to have a lot of fun escaping.
Always remember: you only have a 63% chance to find a drop "on rate". At twice the rate, it's 86%; at triple the rate, it's 95%.
I would absolutely love if OSRS moved towards an "opt-in" PVP system. I absolutely hate PVP in basically every game type of game. Outside of first person shooters, where the entire game is literally PVP, I have always kept away from PVP, especially when the result of dying is losing your items.
“Creates a frustrating gameplay loop where everyone is at odds with one another” … sounds like what the wildy is supposed to be
I think the problem with pvp is most pvpers dont actually enjoy pvping, otherwise they'd just ladder competitively all day like chess players or starcraft players without an additional incentive. And jagex tried that with the pvp arena (dead). I agree with you the hotspot pve type pvp is unbearable!
It’s not even pvp, it’s designed in today’s game as predator vs prey. Pkers just hunt bots and pvmers because most couldn’t handle it if you fought back. A decent fix is make all worlds singles only except for “wilderness pk” labeled worlds, and those can be multi. It would incentivize people doing wildy content to try to fight back and carry anti pk gear if they knew they stood a chance. Jagex just keeps making bots rich and using pvm’ers as bait.
I think a better solve for pvm in wilderness is to just keep all wilderness bosses with collection log slots lower gp/h like the other wildy bosses and let wilderness weapons keep ether. It wouldent hurt to much getting pked and also would keep more pkrs at lms or bh. They could also add some more gp heavy bosses with no collection slots where it would be more main vs main fighting
If they polled removing wilderness pvp, it would pass 100%
Especially for ironman mode, which is supposed to be a single player mode.
Yep, Ironmen, who play single player should not be forced into the wild to get uniques, But the small yet vocal "pvp community" is the only community jagex listens to. The pvp community and polling system will be the death of this game.
You cant convince me that Fray isn't just Dino with a voice changer
Might be able to talk to the slayer master about the difficulty of your task and see if he will re-assign you one since he doesnt assign earth warriors anymore.
back on the wildy pvp chat, There could be a system implemented on certain worlds where they utilise relics for pvp and/or pvm so you pvm as well on those worlds to get those relics. relics would be rewarded by doing certain tasks (time based, objective based ..etc) to spice up pvp in those worlds
Pvp improvment idea. Bounty hunter, but you only get 30% value of the other persons setup, and they have to pay those coins to reclaim.
Not as high risk, but still profitable.
that would work and be less frustrating especially for ironmen.
You consent to being attacked by pkers by entering the wilderness.
Have you forgotten that they actually did make the wilderness non-pvp back in the day?
Remember that you are in a unique situation with your self-imposed restrictions which makes the wilderness particularly frustrating for you since you cant just choose to do different content when it gets too annoying. That doesnt necessarily mean the system is bad as a whole.
Thats not saying there couldnt be improvements made, but I dont think your suggestions are the way to go.
dude's getting the biggest dopamine rush in the world when he escapes and doesn't think the one hunting is having any fun
Best comment ever actually - only reply I've read that actually gives a peek into the Pker mindset 🤣
Wife comment was a little odd but i guess that is a thing between you both.
I understand your frustration. Honestly they(Jagex) should remove PVP from the wilderness and make it fun again. They should create PVP only worlds to cater for those players who want to PVP.
i think pvp sucks equally to how you decribe, just die is better etc. however i do think its what makes osrs partially special too. we have a prey choice for our goals and a place where pvpers can hunt us if they please. we also have way more non pvp prey or hunter places, bounty hunter and ge/lumby/camelot pvp goin on.
what osrs could maybe use is battlegrounds or arenas, but it would need monitoring and banhammers way more than already happens now, else it will be dead on arrival.
i hate to be the prey but hey in 35k hours (multilogged across a few accs) ive been to the wildy like 20hours. i choose not to go there, and vote in favor of pvpers usually. i dread the day i force myself into the wildy, but so far i have not needed to, or wanted to. its a choice and you can play for years and bils of xp without ever going there so
It's always a good day when Fray drops a new video.
If I could request that you take a pole on removing the intense music during PK encounters, I think a lot of people would rather not have it. It doesn’t add much, and it gets repetitive after a few dozen times. Loving the series, I have binged it since episode one. Good luck with the grind!
The majority of PVPers left the game and aren’t coming back. No amount tweaking will change that
You know you're pissed at 8:45 because that accent starts to come through THICCCC
Wilderness pvp is opt in in rs3 and that was imo one of the best updates. they added a danger meter, that can trigger events, that still make the wilderness very dangerous, but you don't get constantly griefed.
stop being such a lil cry baby
The Wilderness rant was pretty awful ngl. The premise is wrong from the get-go (that PKers don't fint it fun to kill PvMers? Lolwhat) and the proposal is bad (we already tried loot potential and it didn't work).
Cry baby indeed lol.
Never been a big pker, but respectfully I hate every idea you mentioned. You're frustrated because of a way you decided to play the game which requires plug-ins and wasn't the intended way to play the game, if you played as most people do and as intended most of your issues wouldn't exist, and this includes if your account was an iron as well.
Every idea I described in this video to improve PvP would be of active detriment to what I am personally trying to achieve on this account
10 minute rant into death l0l
16:00 that's just a king of the hill minigame. should be fun
An easy fix to being forced into wildy content is being able to opt of pvp, They would have to decrease gp per hour and make uniques more rare but it would solve everything. Ironmen aren't forced into pvp and people will still chose the high risk high reward option so the "pkers" will still be satisfied. But it would never pass a poll, the polling system will kill OSRS. It NEVER should have been allowed to go on this long.
Main issue with PvP as I see it is ironically the appeal of it. People lose their items. Because the PvP doesn't add anything to the game and only removes from it, the people who do PvP only are incentivised to either RMT, bot or scam since they don't do any PvE content. I'm convinced the vast majority of RMT goes to PvP for that reason.
I don't really see a way to fix that with how PvP works in RuneScape.
The Cat and Mouse PKing rant at like ~ 9:00 Minutes is EXACTLY why I and just about every other ironman hates wildy content. Sickening how lazy and uninspired their way of "Revitalizing the wilderness" is. True pking is dead, it's just skill-less losers picking on people trying to have fun.
11:35 The cowards at jogflex should have let rev weapons gain their bonus dmg/acc against skulled players as well as npc's, since they might as well be fkn animals. Let pvmers fight back.
edit: 12:30 That's one of the dumbest takes I've heard. You're a Loot goblin to pkers. If you're unfamiliar, in Diablo-esque games, finding a loot goblin means you're about to get cool shit for minimal effort, and it's rare enough that it's always a fun time. That's the angle jagex is pushing pvp since pvpers themselves don't want a fight, they just want to kill loot goblins. Streamers can't make good content out of killing loot goblins is why that's why you don't see that more often.
The problem is that they have added lots of PvP modes, but none of them are actually incentivized. The wilderness is by far the best place to make money while PKing, and it's against people who are only there for the unique items and content tied to the area, not who actually want to PvP.
Like, would you rather do bounty hunter or LMS against other competent players for pennies, or go to the wilderness and hunt defenseless ironmen or other PvMers (who are only there because they have to for clues, quests, or unique drops) and make absolute bank.
They need to properly incentivize OTHER pvp activities. It's fine that PvP is in the wilderness, I get that it's a part of the game's design and history, but it's by far the least fair, least balanced, and most incentivized form of PvP. Which makes no sense to me. It's also WAY more of a nightmare for ironmen.
You lost me at the pvp conversation..
I totally agree on the PvP is actually PvPvm on OSRS and should be shifted to actually be PvP. Maybe if we were to remove the ability to run/make it alot harder to get away, then pvpers would fight each other more because it's not 20fights and only 1 kill. I have no right answers, but to me it seems like right now pvpers avoid each other because it's usually easy enough for them to run away if needed.
I used to not care about pkers on my main. Whenever i needed to go in the wildy i would just use 3 BIS items and the rest i didnt care about losing.
Now that i have a hcim, i dislike pkers 😂
I feel you so much on the wildy pkers. Like they kill me doing Chaos Fanatic that I need for CA KC, and get what, 20k of my min gear?!
Do something productive ffs!
Regarding pvp I love the way they did it in RS3, where you opt in and opt out of pvp. If you're in pvp, you are skulled, and you get some bonuses, like extra agiltiy xp, extra runecrafting xp and more, meanwhile if you're not opted in then you are free to do as you please in the wilderness without being bothered by pkers.
Imagine if fray would stop "taking the fucking piss" and just get the drops 🤣
I think the part about PVP that you got wrong, and the main problem is that the people killing you aren't bored of it they actually think they have accomplished something. Every pker I have known on osrs that kill pvm players can't cut it in actual pvp so they go kill players who won't fight back and act like they won something when they kill the pvm player.
@FrayRS Please man!!! the reason your character doesn't hop is because world switcher takes 2 more ticks than logout button. Always use the logout button rather than trying to hop, you will die 10x less.
The wilderness has had a food chain since it released. There is a lot more content there now but the general premise has been the same forever. You get people looting and killing monsters at the bottom, people killing those players to make money and then more experienced pkers out to kill the guys killing the pvmers. Most of the first videos I watched of pking back in the mid 2000s were at green dragons for these exact reasons. Green dragons were great money for your average player back then, even better money for the person pking.
The PvP players are doing the same thing you are, farming an easy kill. They are having as much fun as you are killing vet. It’s not always about challenge, it’s about effective gold making methods.
Let me save 10 minutes of everybody's life. If you want to skip from 9:00 to 19:00 you will miss the stupidest rant. I love fray but holy shit that was so stupid
If you used better gear in the wilderness and learned how to escape from PKers it woudlnt be as much of an issue. I know its difficult on an ironman but thats not how the game was intended to be played and is an intentional restriction. I see people in pretty shit gear escape from PKers in max all the time. I don't play the game much but watch a lot of content and a lot of the time it seems like you are not even trying to survive.
" cya dickhead!"
Genuinely, the pure joy and smack talk are like 90% of the reason i am binging your series :D
I think the issue isn't that Jagex is unwilling to think about solutions that aren't predator vs. prey, I think it's that it is incredibly hard and maybe just impossible to create a solution that won't instantaneously be abused by bad actors. In the example you gave of having a small number of zones that generate gp for being in them for longer periods of time, they would either not be incentivizing enough to draw people in or be too incentivizing and result in clans just locking them down and making it impossible for solo players/smaller teams to compete. I definitely agree that the solutions they have been trying feel terrible, especially for irons but also for a lot of mains who just want to pvm.
Disagree with how u think they couldnt make it work. Just have it be singles with certain leaving or teleport restrictions you also have the ability to require certain amount of risk to be eligible or time spent in the area before being eligible etc. It 100% can work.
the very same company found a solution. they made it opt in in rs3 and it revitalized the wildy. before the change almost nobody ever went to the wildy in rs3. The same would be true for OSRS if they didn't add so much pvm content to the wildy
wilderness tax must be paid