I think you saved me $800. I love the idea of the daylight, but the trade-offs remove a lot of what I love about e-ink. Hopefully BOOX can make their e-ink panels faster in the future.
This is an incredibly comprehensive review! You compared it not only against the Remarkable 2, but also the iPad! The testing in different lighting conditions is also incredibly helpful; most people review them in a brightly lit room. Dimness looks to be a concern. It looks darker than Kaleido 3.
Comparison with a Boox ereader like the Tab Ultra would be more equivalent, given that it runs android, has the fastest refresh rate for E-Ink (not E-Paper), and is priced closer as a result.
hi Joshua, thanks for the video! this is a nice side by side comparison I am looking for. On the screen tech, ris it 100% sure that DC-1 is using the transflective LCD (which means the lights are behind the reflective layer as you have explained in the video)? I know there are a few companies making reflective LCD with front light layers, the same logic as devices like kindle paperwhite or Onyx Boox tablets, just replacing the eink panel with a RLCD. I wonder if it is transflective LCD or reflective LCD. thanks
backlight lets the screen to be closer to the surface, which is why the remarkable doesn’t have a front light not sure about the display type used here
This device seems so pointless. It’s not good at being an ebook reader due to the backlight, poor viewing angles, lower visibility in natural light and far far far lower battery life, and it’s not good at being a traditional tablet either due to poor performance and obviously the black and white screen not suiting most tablet content. They should’ve done a bit of customer research before going all in on a product with so little appeal to either tablet or e book users.
That screen looks way worse than an actual e-paper, it has a game boy vibe to it, which makes sense because the game boy also has the same type of display
All LCDs use a polariser, which limits how reflective they can be. Typical office/printer paper is about 80%, though many people find that *too* reflective in bright sunlight. E Ink Carta has a reflectivity of at least 44% and a contrast ratio of at least 15:1. Panels like the Sharp 1-bit "memory in pixel" display used in the Playdate have similar contrast but reflectivity is only about 18%. And while their viewing angles aren't *bad* (compared to late-80s panels) they're not as good as e ink. They still look nice, and depending on how often the screen needs refreshing, can draw less power than e ink. Then of course there's surface finish. A matte glass/plastic surface is less affected by glare, but I think they lower reflectivity.
The improvements are nice, but I still think that this is way too expensive. Haven't these kinds of LCDs been used for years in smart watches and the like?
As someone who owns a number of e-ink devices and has been watching the segment's development closely for years, I'm excited to see anyone trying something new. The current tech paradigm *needs* to be challenged and I think it's very easy to criticize a fledgling business like this over things like the price or the founder's vibe. I'm grateful for anyone that's working hard to do something they think will be better, even if the device isn't *for* me.
Yes! There has been way tooooooo much focus on OLED as of late when there is SO MUCH creative stuff that could be done with e-ink/e-paper/transflective type displays that use less power. Agreed - it is cool to see a company trying to do something new here. I wish the watch makers would continue to innovate on these types of displays in that use case as well. Fossil had a neat attempt with their smart-ish watches they were making, but they were so damn slow it was not really usable.
Awesome comparison and examples! I can't wait to check this one out myself. From what I've seen, E-Ink still looks like the way to go when it comes to readability, because of its better reflectance and, even more importantly, the viewing angle stability. The 60 Hz refresh rate is nice, but I wouldn’t give up those advantages for it.
That real-world remarkable vs. daylight comparison - outside, in sun, in shade, and in the house - was super helpful and made the differences very clear. Thank you!
Great follow up video, Josh. Appreciate seeing the DC-1 outdoors and in 1:1 comparisons with E-Ink. Yes, it’s expensive, but it’s also a one of a kind niche project that hasn’t yet gone mass market. I hope they succeed.
I'd still argue that to be classified as E-Paper, the display should be bistable. Content being displayed permanently without the need for power is a key differentiator I feel is needed to classify something as a paper alternative, but e-paper should definitely not be synonymous to e-ink as there are multiple panel technologies that enable this.
I disagree -- panels like Sharp's memory-in-pixel displays aren't bistable for more than a few seconds, but use less power per refresh than e-ink. e.g. one 2.6" 296×152 e-ink display supposedly uses 26 mW per (full) refresh, and has a standby power consumption of 17 µW. A 2.7" 400×240 MIP LCD uses about 50 µW to display a static image, or 175 µW to update at 1 Hz (datasheet doesn't give power draw for higher refresh rates). For things like grocery store labels or signage, e-ink is indeed more energy-efficient. But for an e-reader, it's less clear-cut. How long does it take the user to read a page? Is it a sequential read like a novel or something requiring flicking back and forth like a reference text?
I would agree but that essentially just leaves the company E-ink. Afaik there aren't any other bi-stable screen tech. Epaper has been used for a long time with transflective displays - Pebble and other smart watches using it a lot. E-paper is a buzzword, and companies are going to use it.
@@evindrews There are ClearInk and Pervasive to name just two direct E Ink competitors that are bistable in Nature. Both have their advantages and disadvantages compared to E ink, especially considering Kaleido 3 as still being the most usable for end users in most cases. Also ChLCD and Liquavista, though never witnessed the former and I believe the latter remained in lab testing. Besides those, there are likely more I haven't heard of or experienced, which is why I feel the distinction is important. Let's not ignore the competition going on by allowing different technology to crowd out those actually innovating in this area. Key aspect of real paper is that I need to expand energy to add content, but once it's on there it stays. Same should apply for E Paper.
Its kind of odd they don't have accessories with keyboards etc. Without these, it's really not much of a hybrid computer it's basically just a tablet that you can buy your own keyboard or mouse for. Thanks for the updates, interesting to see.
Basically it seems their core business is the display tech, and the tablet is just a showcase device. Their mistake is trying to market it for a general audience.
Thanks for the follow up with a side-by-side comparison to the ReMarkable. E-ink just looks so much better that the refresh rate on their custom LCD isn't enough. I hope they sell enough gen 1 units to make gen 2 feasible, but I highly doubt it at that price. As somebody looking for this kind of device for reading research papers, annotating etc., the devices from Boox, Supernote and Remarkable are far more worth it imo. E-ink is just such a joy to use and those devices are purpose built for pen input, but the Daylight sounded like the pen was too slippery and much more like an "old school" LCD writing experience.
This product is a godsend for me, as the zero blue light is incredibly rare in the current market. Night Shift on iPad or other “amber backlight” still emit a fair amount of blue light I’d like to avoid. I’m happy to pay the $700+ price for this alone. It’s interesting to see how this device can be easily criticized for other aspects and compromises.
While I agree that e-paper and e-ink shouldn't be considered synonymous, I disagree that reflective/transflective LCDs should be considered electronic paper. If those qualify, then all Game Boys from original DMG up to AGS-001 model also have e-paper displays. Being reflective is not the only criterion for an e-paper display. It should also have retention, and contrast and viewing angles comparable to regular paper. Properties that DC1's LivePaper clearly lacks, which make calling it an e-paper display deceptive. That being said, I love transflective LCDs and miss my Pebble Time (RIP). DC1 can definitely have its use cases without deceptively marketing itself as having an e-paper display.
@@fumikato What do you mean? I already described the properties necessary for display to be qualified as e-paper. If you mean to ask which technologies cover those properties, then, Gyricon, electrophoretics, electrowetting (no retention), etc.
I think it's fair to say this company's *goal* is to develop a new kind of epaper. Their mistake is claiming this is it. More like an early prototype. The founder claims they're still looking into viewing angle and bistability… so basically this isn't the display they want, yet. Maybe they'd be better off not claiming it is.
@@LaloMartins Yes, sure, if at some point they use a screen technology comparable to e-paper, nobody will complain, of course. But the technology they are using right now isn't anything new. They had their own screen made, that's true, but it's based on existing tech.
Great tech in the wrong product. This tech should be used in monitors, not tablets. They can comlete with E-ink on tablets where battery life is important, but they could destroy all E-ink monitors thanks to their refresh rate.
Excellent video and way to revisit this topic. I completely agree with you that even if you don't think it is the right product, at least it is innovative and appears to be a complete device. Thanks for sharing.
What this device seems potentially really useful for is reading and annotating papers and textbooks. It's hard to zip around a multi-page paper or textbook on an eink reader -- I imagine it's a lot easier on this.
Thank you, Joshua! Gold comment at the end of the video: "the price is more than most can afford, especially for a product that most people don't need". Ordered one.
Josh, as someone who loves my Supernote Nomad, but still relies on his IPad for teaching Scripture in a classroom setting, here are some of the questions I have of what pre-baked functionality does the DC-1 have: 1. I understand this doesn’t have Sol OS yet, but how robust are annotations on the DC-1? Supernote is the leader I’d say in the annotation world. I use Supernote’s “digests” feature pretty much daily. Doodling and highlighting books is nice, but honestly for $729, if that’s all it has that would seem like a large oversight. I would hope there is some sort of more sophisticated annotation feature on the DC-1 more than just highlighting and doodling on E-pubs or PDFs. So maybe a video on that would help? 2. Functionality of notes. This could be a very long question, but I’ll keep it very short for how long this topic could be. How robust is the notes app, and how friendly is their file format? For example, Supernote’s “.note” is great in many ways, but does not allow you to add pictures to their “.note” files, you can’t add pages from a PDF in a “.note” file, you can only handwrite in a “.note” file, you cannot add typed text or text boxes, and much more. How wild can you go with notes on the DC-1? As a Supernote user that is a must-know! 3. Lastly, I think these are awesome and super informative. I really appreciate this a lot! Hope at least you’re able to read this and make something of it, but if not, I still appreciate all the stuff you are covering on this… You are saving me a lot of money right now lol.
Interesting to hear from an iPad user that Supernote is the leader in the annotation world. With smartscript and all the other OCR features on the iPad writing experience, how would you say writing on the iPad compares with writing on the Supernote? Let's limit the iPad to Apple Notes and Apple Journal for the sake of this comparison.
The trade offs seem like a very good counter-balance. Sounds close enough to an e-Ink and LCD that it won't be as optimal to either extreme using one of those 'ordinary' displays, but probably close enough to what e-paper displays are good at and the performance of an LCD that if it sounds like a good idea to someone, it probably is worth a look. I for example would prefer the frame rate of an LCD far more than how e-Ink holds on to the image without power, while still having most of the advantages of e-paper displays for reading/writing. By contrast, if my Scribe ran Android, I'd flip it out a window, lol. It's great device for what it does, just not suitable as an iPad/Android tablet replacement.
IF ONLY the company would make a simple monitor with the same technology. We have too many tablets out there now, but definitely not enough eye-friendly monitors.
Very informative video. Way better than the company's website. It's cool tech, and I hope to see it develop. However, it does not yet seem to be good enough to replace either a e-ink device or tablet.
I would massively prefer e-ink displays but I never knew they were a brand rather than just a technology which is nice to learn. A good reason to not call this one e-paper is because of e-ink basically having monopolized the name of bi stable displays. We need to be able to talk about these bi stable displays without using their e-ink brand name and without including whatever this thing is.
Thanks for the review! One thing that was conspicuously missing for me was a writing comparison; I'd really like to hear your thoughts on how the writing experience compares to the reMarkable.
I wonder how it compares with Boox devices. And in that sense the display looks similar as that of color e-ink, but without the color. The refresh rate of the Boox devices is also rather good (i own the Ultra C), so the only benefit would be that this device has no ghosting.
I'm impressed with the battery life. I've been able to use it for days without needing to recharge. I think this tablet seems very potential in terms of the performance also with the helio G99 chipset.
This product has so much scope, hope they redo the product placement . I see a lot of use in outdoor trades, construction and architecture. We only look at prints because displays suck under sunlight.
It just doesn't look good in my opinion. It looks like.. well, a transflective LCD. It has the characteristic metallic color shifting and poor viewing angles we all saw in the Gameboy and smart watches. I watched the founder talk about it and I really don't like how he basically lies about inventing the screen technology, hyping it up as amazing. It looks worse then eink AND normal LCD and it has no battery benefits.
If backlight is not necessary for this display to display the content, then adding a front light to device is will be better. It'll be better on eye and doesn't disrupt sleep much.
for me it will be either Daylight DC 2 having better reflective performance or a remarkable that is 60 fps. rooting for this category to free us from backlight hell. like eink over LCD though. I just need 30 fps on the e-ink. 60 isnt required
Honestly, I’d be interested if they price this more competitively with e-Reader instead of tablet. It’s too pricey for that purpose for me. Not entirely sure why they chose Android OS instead of other Linux distribution if they aim this at light work space like laptop.
I’ve wanted a ReMarkable since they launched, but 99% for reading and 1% for writing with a ‘real paper’ feel. However, given that I have an almost complete Apple line up (I’m as ashamed of me as you are, don’t worry) and the price of the ReMarkable, there’s no way I could justify the outlay (especially as the XDR and OLED displays on my iPad, Mac and iPhone are much more amenable to dark mode reading than the old days of more straightforward LED LCDs without the hyper local dimming etc). Maybe when the ReMarkable 3 drops, a 2 might be snappable up at a decent second hand price. Or I could just stop being a fool and get a secondhand Kindle Paperwhite or whatever they are now. But yeah, especially as I’m so deeply within the Apple ecoprison, the Daylight does not appeal to me whatsoever. To me that transflective LCD is a million miles away from the e-paper of the ReMarkable, no amount of refresh rate makes up for the fact that it’s actually not good at the thing it’s supposed to be good at.
nit pick: you go through the trouble of explaining eInk ≠ ePaper, then you add confusion to that point with unneccessary qualifiers like "*actual* eInk" at 3:48, or "*true* eInk" at 4:39. Just remove those qualifiers.
The intentionally misleading marketing, exorbitant price, and lackluster performance are all excellent reasons not to buy this product. This is a great follow up video, but clearer naming for the average consumer and MUCH better value are pretty essential before this product is anything other than a novelty.
Epaper is just unusable for studying, it's way too slow and laggy navigating pdfs. Right now the best is still a just tablet with a matte screen protector. The electrowetting and electrofluidic displays would be good if they actually happen though.
eInk still a better reading experience. I have a HiSense Touch phone sized device (which runs android) and Kindle and both models have warm light option. I think they really hyped this thing up, but it still seems like a less good tablet and a less good e-reader combined.
In the video you showed a website or something about the OS theyre building, soyou have a link to that? I cant find it. Also, thanks so much for putting this together after the last one, definitely great to see that it's better, and also super frustrating!
Glad you used reMarkable instead of kindle devices for comparison. This made the comparison way more interesting, the remarkable looks so slim and beautiful beside daylight computer.
"This POV thing is really interesting" Lol! What did you use to take the POV shots? Thanks for the outdoor and comparisons. I was one of those that requested for that in your previous video. The android launcher on this, does it focus on apps on the home screen, or does it focus on files/folders or something else? Assuming you don't put out a third video, do you have a blog or social media page where you're likely to write the responses to our questions?
I kinda wonder how well the Daylight would work to display the video feed when flying a drone. The software is all there. It’s monochrome, but way easier to see in daylight 🤔
was 100% on board to buy this until it was made clear that there is no fire party keyboard/case support. what a let down. and if the devs are reading this, and decide to create one.. for the love of everything health. don't make it wireless. just make it use the auxiliary contacts all connectivity
E-ink IS a display technology, not just a company that monopolized the tech for decades. E-ink displays do not function like other displays. "E-paper" is a marketing term trying to captialize off E-ink branding while using LCDs. The E-paper terminology should be dropped entirely because it itself is causing the misconception.
E-ink is a corporation that is makes electrophoretic displays. Similar to the relationship between Frisbee and disc. Or Kleenex and tissue. E-ink is not the name of the display technology.
Running scrivener on one of these things would make a wonderful writing machine for novelists, albeit the cost would not be justified unless they could get the cost much cheaper in the future.
Joshua…be thankfully you’re in the position you are to be able to review tech, mistakes can happen and even big UA-camrs understand that. I need to throw shade
Nerds: those who care about definitions. Noobies: those who don't care about definitions. Geeks: those who use any definition that could impress noobies.
This is fascinating tech. I really would love to have a phone with a screen like this. It would be a very pracitcal all-rounder while being easier on the eyes.
I'm so glad you addressed all the needed concerns here. Sometimes people are too harsh, especially about the price. First iteration/first-gen products are NOT for everyone, but when the timing/pacing done right, with support from people who bought those first-gen products, tech products can improve next batches and make it more affordable. You can see it with the Galaxy Z Flip for example, Samsung was able to bring the price down on the third-fourth generations.
I think you saved me $800. I love the idea of the daylight, but the trade-offs remove a lot of what I love about e-ink. Hopefully BOOX can make their e-ink panels faster in the future.
Looking forward to Carta 1300!
eink will never be 60 fps.
Caleido 3 is like 15fps. It's quite usable as a tablet, but not really for watching videos.
Handheld emulator man on an e-ink video
OMG WULFFDEN HOLY SHIT SHIT SHIT I LOVE YOU BAAAAHB 😭
This is an incredibly comprehensive review! You compared it not only against the Remarkable 2, but also the iPad! The testing in different lighting conditions is also incredibly helpful; most people review them in a brightly lit room.
Dimness looks to be a concern. It looks darker than Kaleido 3.
The remarkable' screen is really nice. It's the best eink screen I've seen in terms of whiteness.
Comparison with a Boox ereader like the Tab Ultra would be more equivalent, given that it runs android, has the fastest refresh rate for E-Ink (not E-Paper), and is priced closer as a result.
hi Joshua, thanks for the video! this is a nice side by side comparison I am looking for. On the screen tech, ris it 100% sure that DC-1 is using the transflective LCD (which means the lights are behind the reflective layer as you have explained in the video)? I know there are a few companies making reflective LCD with front light layers, the same logic as devices like kindle paperwhite or Onyx Boox tablets, just replacing the eink panel with a RLCD. I wonder if it is transflective LCD or reflective LCD. thanks
backlight lets the screen to be closer to the surface, which is why the remarkable doesn’t have a front light
not sure about the display type used here
what’s weird is on their website they show it with a keyboard 😅
So it's basically the type of display that gameboys and old phones had. That thing shouldn't cost more than 100$.
it’s a computer, not an ereader. If you want an ereader, get an eink tablet. If you want a computer to use outside, this is it.
This device seems so pointless. It’s not good at being an ebook reader due to the backlight, poor viewing angles, lower visibility in natural light and far far far lower battery life, and it’s not good at being a traditional tablet either due to poor performance and obviously the black and white screen not suiting most tablet content.
They should’ve done a bit of customer research before going all in on a product with so little appeal to either tablet or e book users.
Mansplaining! Really! An offensive word. How PC-ish.
If anything, this comparison kinda made me want a Remarkable lol
My REMARKABLE is my daily companion. Best device there is for real note taking
@@adanufgail dont need it. In all my years owning one I didn’t pay a cent in subscription
@@sonickautschuhe supernote bettha (both are great)
That screen looks way worse than an actual e-paper, it has a game boy vibe to it, which makes sense because the game boy also has the same type of display
I wish it wasn't yellow at least.
they said they would make it more reflective and more metallic - and they didn't do either nearly enough
All LCDs use a polariser, which limits how reflective they can be.
Typical office/printer paper is about 80%, though many people find that *too* reflective in bright sunlight.
E Ink Carta has a reflectivity of at least 44% and a contrast ratio of at least 15:1.
Panels like the Sharp 1-bit "memory in pixel" display used in the Playdate have similar contrast but reflectivity is only about 18%. And while their viewing angles aren't *bad* (compared to late-80s panels) they're not as good as e ink. They still look nice, and depending on how often the screen needs refreshing, can draw less power than e ink.
Then of course there's surface finish. A matte glass/plastic surface is less affected by glare, but I think they lower reflectivity.
Oh yeah but they “invented” a new type of display for it LMAO
The improvements are nice, but I still think that this is way too expensive. Haven't these kinds of LCDs been used for years in smart watches and the like?
Yes. And i believe every tech needs transreflective displays if it focuses more on productivity.
But half this price.
Right? I get why e-ink can be expensive bc it was invented and there's only one manufacturer for everything, but this isn't that new..
Sadly, transfective display is not colorful
Yeah. Your calculator has one too. This thing is just overpriced.
As someone who owns a number of e-ink devices and has been watching the segment's development closely for years, I'm excited to see anyone trying something new. The current tech paradigm *needs* to be challenged and I think it's very easy to criticize a fledgling business like this over things like the price or the founder's vibe. I'm grateful for anyone that's working hard to do something they think will be better, even if the device isn't *for* me.
Yes! There has been way tooooooo much focus on OLED as of late when there is SO MUCH creative stuff that could be done with e-ink/e-paper/transflective type displays that use less power. Agreed - it is cool to see a company trying to do something new here. I wish the watch makers would continue to innovate on these types of displays in that use case as well. Fossil had a neat attempt with their smart-ish watches they were making, but they were so damn slow it was not really usable.
@@CoryBurke nothing is new. See Hisense q5.
Awesome comparison and examples! I can't wait to check this one out myself. From what I've seen, E-Ink still looks like the way to go when it comes to readability, because of its better reflectance and, even more importantly, the viewing angle stability. The 60 Hz refresh rate is nice, but I wouldn’t give up those advantages for it.
That real-world remarkable vs. daylight comparison - outside, in sun, in shade, and in the house - was super helpful and made the differences very clear. Thank you!
Great follow up video, Josh. Appreciate seeing the DC-1 outdoors and in 1:1 comparisons with E-Ink. Yes, it’s expensive, but it’s also a one of a kind niche project that hasn’t yet gone mass market. I hope they succeed.
Man it is just such a bad value compared to things like the boox note line that can run you under $400.
So when you turn on the backlight, it is just a normal LCD? 😅
yea but worse
I'd still argue that to be classified as E-Paper, the display should be bistable. Content being displayed permanently without the need for power is a key differentiator I feel is needed to classify something as a paper alternative, but e-paper should definitely not be synonymous to e-ink as there are multiple panel technologies that enable this.
I disagree -- panels like Sharp's memory-in-pixel displays aren't bistable for more than a few seconds, but use less power per refresh than e-ink.
e.g. one 2.6" 296×152 e-ink display supposedly uses 26 mW per (full) refresh, and has a standby power consumption of 17 µW. A 2.7" 400×240 MIP LCD uses about 50 µW to display a static image, or 175 µW to update at 1 Hz (datasheet doesn't give power draw for higher refresh rates).
For things like grocery store labels or signage, e-ink is indeed more energy-efficient. But for an e-reader, it's less clear-cut. How long does it take the user to read a page? Is it a sequential read like a novel or something requiring flicking back and forth like a reference text?
I would agree but that essentially just leaves the company E-ink. Afaik there aren't any other bi-stable screen tech. Epaper has been used for a long time with transflective displays - Pebble and other smart watches using it a lot. E-paper is a buzzword, and companies are going to use it.
@@evindrews There are ClearInk and Pervasive to name just two direct E Ink competitors that are bistable in Nature. Both have their advantages and disadvantages compared to E ink, especially considering Kaleido 3 as still being the most usable for end users in most cases. Also ChLCD and Liquavista, though never witnessed the former and I believe the latter remained in lab testing. Besides those, there are likely more I haven't heard of or experienced, which is why I feel the distinction is important. Let's not ignore the competition going on by allowing different technology to crowd out those actually innovating in this area. Key aspect of real paper is that I need to expand energy to add content, but once it's on there it stays. Same should apply for E Paper.
I just saved a ton of money! Thanks!
Its kind of odd they don't have accessories with keyboards etc. Without these, it's really not much of a hybrid computer it's basically just a tablet that you can buy your own keyboard or mouse for. Thanks for the updates, interesting to see.
Basically it seems their core business is the display tech, and the tablet is just a showcase device. Their mistake is trying to market it for a general audience.
Why no close up shots of the screen?
Thanks for the follow up with a side-by-side comparison to the ReMarkable. E-ink just looks so much better that the refresh rate on their custom LCD isn't enough.
I hope they sell enough gen 1 units to make gen 2 feasible, but I highly doubt it at that price. As somebody looking for this kind of device for reading research papers, annotating etc., the devices from Boox, Supernote and Remarkable are far more worth it imo. E-ink is just such a joy to use and those devices are purpose built for pen input, but the Daylight sounded like the pen was too slippery and much more like an "old school" LCD writing experience.
Still disagree, E-paper is misleading AF, it should be called "transflective LCD"
This product is a godsend for me, as the zero blue light is incredibly rare in the current market. Night Shift on iPad or other “amber backlight” still emit a fair amount of blue light I’d like to avoid. I’m happy to pay the $700+ price for this alone.
It’s interesting to see how this device can be easily criticized for other aspects and compromises.
No Google Play, so that's definitely a no for me (and millions of others).
This odd device is way overpriced and they are intentionally trying to mislead the public saying an LCD screen is e-paper/e-ink - BIG SKIP - PASS
While I agree that e-paper and e-ink shouldn't be considered synonymous, I disagree that reflective/transflective LCDs should be considered electronic paper. If those qualify, then all Game Boys from original DMG up to AGS-001 model also have e-paper displays.
Being reflective is not the only criterion for an e-paper display. It should also have retention, and contrast and viewing angles comparable to regular paper. Properties that DC1's LivePaper clearly lacks, which make calling it an e-paper display deceptive.
That being said, I love transflective LCDs and miss my Pebble Time (RIP). DC1 can definitely have its use cases without deceptively marketing itself as having an e-paper display.
so, what is e-paper then?
@@fumikato What do you mean? I already described the properties necessary for display to be qualified as e-paper.
If you mean to ask which technologies cover those properties, then, Gyricon, electrophoretics, electrowetting (no retention), etc.
@@FaridAbbasbayli right, ok
I think it's fair to say this company's *goal* is to develop a new kind of epaper. Their mistake is claiming this is it. More like an early prototype. The founder claims they're still looking into viewing angle and bistability… so basically this isn't the display they want, yet. Maybe they'd be better off not claiming it is.
@@LaloMartins Yes, sure, if at some point they use a screen technology comparable to e-paper, nobody will complain, of course. But the technology they are using right now isn't anything new. They had their own screen made, that's true, but it's based on existing tech.
Great tech in the wrong product. This tech should be used in monitors, not tablets. They can comlete with E-ink on tablets where battery life is important, but they could destroy all E-ink monitors thanks to their refresh rate.
The biggest advantage of the Daylight is zero blue light at night. I hope the price comes down eventually
Excellent video and way to revisit this topic. I completely agree with you that even if you don't think it is the right product, at least it is innovative and appears to be a complete device. Thanks for sharing.
Dragging and swiping stuff is a way more common issue than viewing from different angles IMO...
It depends on use case. But yes I agree. I think issue here is also the contrary and the it’s not really close to being white
What this device seems potentially really useful for is reading and annotating papers and textbooks. It's hard to zip around a multi-page paper or textbook on an eink reader -- I imagine it's a lot easier on this.
Thank you, Joshua! Gold comment at the end of the video: "the price is more than most can afford, especially for a product that most people don't need". Ordered one.
Josh, as someone who loves my Supernote Nomad, but still relies on his IPad for teaching Scripture in a classroom setting, here are some of the questions I have of what pre-baked functionality does the DC-1 have:
1. I understand this doesn’t have Sol OS yet, but how robust are annotations on the DC-1? Supernote is the leader I’d say in the annotation world. I use Supernote’s “digests” feature pretty much daily. Doodling and highlighting books is nice, but honestly for $729, if that’s all it has that would seem like a large oversight. I would hope there is some sort of more sophisticated annotation feature on the DC-1 more than just highlighting and doodling on E-pubs or PDFs. So maybe a video on that would help?
2. Functionality of notes. This could be a very long question, but I’ll keep it very short for how long this topic could be. How robust is the notes app, and how friendly is their file format? For example, Supernote’s “.note” is great in many ways, but does not allow you to add pictures to their “.note” files, you can’t add pages from a PDF in a “.note” file, you can only handwrite in a “.note” file, you cannot add typed text or text boxes, and much more. How wild can you go with notes on the DC-1? As a Supernote user that is a must-know!
3. Lastly, I think these are awesome and super informative. I really appreciate this a lot! Hope at least you’re able to read this and make something of it, but if not, I still appreciate all the stuff you are covering on this… You are saving me a lot of money right now lol.
Interesting to hear from an iPad user that Supernote is the leader in the annotation world. With smartscript and all the other OCR features on the iPad writing experience, how would you say writing on the iPad compares with writing on the Supernote? Let's limit the iPad to Apple Notes and Apple Journal for the sake of this comparison.
Why are you comparing it to a remarkable which is remarkably slow. There are fast modes eink also for zooming and even video playing.
Man I don't know of the daylight team wanted a better review but that shot beside a remarkable drove the point home. It looks like sht
Loving the unique LivePaper display on the Daylight Computer 1! The Helio G99 chip ensures everything runs effortlessly while I read and write.
The trade offs seem like a very good counter-balance. Sounds close enough to an e-Ink and LCD that it won't be as optimal to either extreme using one of those 'ordinary' displays, but probably close enough to what e-paper displays are good at and the performance of an LCD that if it sounds like a good idea to someone, it probably is worth a look. I for example would prefer the frame rate of an LCD far more than how e-Ink holds on to the image without power, while still having most of the advantages of e-paper displays for reading/writing. By contrast, if my Scribe ran Android, I'd flip it out a window, lol. It's great device for what it does, just not suitable as an iPad/Android tablet replacement.
IF ONLY the company would make a simple monitor with the same technology. We have too many tablets out there now, but definitely not enough eye-friendly monitors.
We want a 14"-15" laptop with such a screen. It would be life changing. And it is easier to justify a higher price in a laptop.
No color? Only black/white?
Very informative video. Way better than the company's website. It's cool tech, and I hope to see it develop. However, it does not yet seem to be good enough to replace either a e-ink device or tablet.
Great Follow-up. It shows your commitment to getting things right. Also a great explanation and examples... Invaluable. Thanks!
I would massively prefer e-ink displays but I never knew they were a brand rather than just a technology which is nice to learn. A good reason to not call this one e-paper is because of e-ink basically having monopolized the name of bi stable displays. We need to be able to talk about these bi stable displays without using their e-ink brand name and without including whatever this thing is.
For 729 USD, why not just get an iPad and a Kindle?
The main reason is so you don't have to carry 2 devices. There's value in that. 😉
So glad you made an updated video once they sent you the new one. Kinda silly of them still to not warn you or whatever
Thanks for the review! One thing that was conspicuously missing for me was a writing comparison; I'd really like to hear your thoughts on how the writing experience compares to the reMarkable.
Absolutely insane how people get worked up about using e-paper to describe this screen.
Basically it’s a first gen lcd, marketed as something new?
this was a great vid thank u for making it
I wonder how it compares with Boox devices. And in that sense the display looks similar as that of color e-ink, but without the color. The refresh rate of the Boox devices is also rather good (i own the Ultra C), so the only benefit would be that this device has no ghosting.
The a roll in this looks so pretty wow
If this were 300-400 price wise I'd buy it in a heartbeat
Love the features and mediatek is a good choice for the device
I'm impressed with the battery life. I've been able to use it for days without needing to recharge. I think this tablet seems very potential in terms of the performance also with the helio G99 chipset.
You've already have it? How's the experiece? Do you think it's worth it?
I think I got a lot of disinformation from this video.
How do they just magically stand up straight
Joshua, can you try it with an external monitor, via usb-c (if it works) and regular android mirroring?
I would like a monitor of this
This product has so much scope, hope they redo the product placement . I see a lot of use in outdoor trades, construction and architecture. We only look at prints because displays suck under sunlight.
It just doesn't look good in my opinion. It looks like.. well, a transflective LCD. It has the characteristic metallic color shifting and poor viewing angles we all saw in the Gameboy and smart watches. I watched the founder talk about it and I really don't like how he basically lies about inventing the screen technology, hyping it up as amazing. It looks worse then eink AND normal LCD and it has no battery benefits.
Great vid i was thinking about the daylight but it still needs a lot of work
Just stick with Boox Note Air 3C.
If backlight is not necessary for this display to display the content, then adding a front light to device is will be better. It'll be better on eye and doesn't disrupt sleep much.
remarkable is just actual paper
How does it act as an actual e-reader? 😂
67 hours only? man, I was going to buy it.
for me it will be either Daylight DC 2 having better reflective performance or a remarkable that is 60 fps. rooting for this category to free us from backlight hell. like eink over LCD though. I just need 30 fps on the e-ink. 60 isnt required
max 300$... but 800$? WTF?
Honestly, I’d be interested if they price this more competitively with e-Reader instead of tablet. It’s too pricey for that purpose for me. Not entirely sure why they chose Android OS instead of other Linux distribution if they aim this at light work space like laptop.
So how many shades of grey can the screen do?
damn the daylight is like the worst of both worlds
it's just terrible
I’ve wanted a ReMarkable since they launched, but 99% for reading and 1% for writing with a ‘real paper’ feel. However, given that I have an almost complete Apple line up (I’m as ashamed of me as you are, don’t worry) and the price of the ReMarkable, there’s no way I could justify the outlay (especially as the XDR and OLED displays on my iPad, Mac and iPhone are much more amenable to dark mode reading than the old days of more straightforward LED LCDs without the hyper local dimming etc). Maybe when the ReMarkable 3 drops, a 2 might be snappable up at a decent second hand price. Or I could just stop being a fool and get a secondhand Kindle Paperwhite or whatever they are now.
But yeah, especially as I’m so deeply within the Apple ecoprison, the Daylight does not appeal to me whatsoever. To me that transflective LCD is a million miles away from the e-paper of the ReMarkable, no amount of refresh rate makes up for the fact that it’s actually not good at the thing it’s supposed to be good at.
nit pick: you go through the trouble of explaining eInk ≠ ePaper, then you add confusion to that point with unneccessary qualifiers like "*actual* eInk" at 3:48, or "*true* eInk" at 4:39. Just remove those qualifiers.
The intentionally misleading marketing, exorbitant price, and lackluster performance are all excellent reasons not to buy this product.
This is a great follow up video, but clearer naming for the average consumer and MUCH better value are pretty essential before this product is anything other than a novelty.
i think this product performs best with a little bit of backlight turned on, like 10-20 % , in every environment
Epaper is just unusable for studying, it's way too slow and laggy navigating pdfs. Right now the best is still a just tablet with a matte screen protector. The electrowetting and electrofluidic displays would be good if they actually happen though.
eInk still a better reading experience. I have a HiSense Touch phone sized device (which runs android) and Kindle and both models have warm light option. I think they really hyped this thing up, but it still seems like a less good tablet and a less good e-reader combined.
In the video you showed a website or something about the OS theyre building, soyou have a link to that? I cant find it.
Also, thanks so much for putting this together after the last one, definitely great to see that it's better, and also super frustrating!
Right here:
daylightcomputer.com/product
@@JoshuaChang thank you! 🎉
Glad you used reMarkable instead of kindle devices for comparison. This made the comparison way more interesting, the remarkable looks so slim and beautiful beside daylight computer.
"This POV thing is really interesting"
Lol! What did you use to take the POV shots? Thanks for the outdoor and comparisons. I was one of those that requested for that in your previous video. The android launcher on this, does it focus on apps on the home screen, or does it focus on files/folders or something else? Assuming you don't put out a third video, do you have a blog or social media page where you're likely to write the responses to our questions?
I kinda wonder how well the Daylight would work to display the video feed when flying a drone. The software is all there. It’s monochrome, but way easier to see in daylight 🤔
was 100% on board to buy this until it was made clear that there is no fire party keyboard/case support. what a let down. and if the devs are reading this, and decide to create one.. for the love of everything health. don't make it wireless. just make it use the auxiliary contacts all connectivity
E-ink IS a display technology, not just a company that monopolized the tech for decades. E-ink displays do not function like other displays. "E-paper" is a marketing term trying to captialize off E-ink branding while using LCDs.
The E-paper terminology should be dropped entirely because it itself is causing the misconception.
E-ink is a corporation that is makes electrophoretic displays. Similar to the relationship between Frisbee and disc. Or Kleenex and tissue.
E-ink is not the name of the display technology.
Running scrivener on one of these things would make a wonderful writing machine for novelists, albeit the cost would not be justified unless they could get the cost much cheaper in the future.
Something about the whole Daylight schtick reminds me of the NotionInk Adam. Anyone remember that?
Wait so it's just a regular reflective LCD? Like, the actual first version of LCDs that was available?
Joshua…be thankfully you’re in the position you are to be able to review tech, mistakes can happen and even big UA-camrs understand that. I need to throw shade
Nerds: those who care about definitions.
Noobies: those who don't care about definitions.
Geeks: those who use any definition that could impress noobies.
At 14:50 you point at the reMarkable 2 and call it a BOOX!
This is fascinating tech. I really would love to have a phone with a screen like this. It would be a very pracitcal all-rounder while being easier on the eyes.
This company is out for me. Seemed really cool but the price and the bafoonary is annoying.
My solution: ipad + matte screen protector + "filter colors" (pastel washed out colors)
Honest review. Thank you for clarifying how the 60hz e-paper actually works.
I'm so glad you addressed all the needed concerns here. Sometimes people are too harsh, especially about the price.
First iteration/first-gen products are NOT for everyone, but when the timing/pacing done right, with support from people who bought those first-gen products, tech products can improve next batches and make it more affordable. You can see it with the Galaxy Z Flip for example, Samsung was able to bring the price down on the third-fourth generations.
Comparison with Onyx Boox Note Air 3 C which is an eInk device with faster refresh rate?
What a blunder on the version being given out. Still wasn't able to see the viewing angles with the back light on. Still it is pretty cool