I think a lot of the confusion has to do with the misusing the terminology, as the "gauge" is the distance between the rails, whilst "scale" is the physical porportions of the models. It should also be mentioned that not all O gauge track has 3 rails, but that's another kettle of fish entirely. Usually that's why the smaller-sized trains in O are referred to as "Semi-Scale", along with "Traditional O", "O-27", and our friends from across the pond call them "Coarse Scale". As you say, the primary difference is the proportions. Scale items are bigger, and are more scale models than toys, the traditional O items are smaller, more toy-like, and will negotiate tighter curves. The gauge remains the same all around, though traditional O track often has tighter curves that most scale items can't traverse. Personally an O-27 fan myself, you get the most bang for your real-estate buck while still having O gauge trains.
@@skiiipawbs Yes, O-27 is still O gauge, distance between the rails remains the same. As you say, the track itself has a smaller profile (height) and the curves are the tightest available in premade sections, 27 inches in diameter (hence the name, O-27). Needless to say, most scale items (with a few exceptions) can't cope with such tight curves and switches, so O-27 is primarily the realm of semi-scale trains (though there are even some semi-scale items which can't negotiate it well). As I mentioned, personally a fan of it as it lets you have a more complex track plan for a given space while still having O gauge. Even with semi-scale, an O gauge train makes quite the impression slamming down the rails as compared to the smaller HO and N gauge trains (though I like those as well).
The only thing I can add, is that some postwar and modern semi O items that are listed as O-27 are O scale dimensions. It is just that usually the O-27 items do not have as much details. As with MTG Railking, some of the cars and engines dimensions, are actually scale.
While I don’t model O scale due to my space and budget (I model n scale), I’ve had a lot of admiration and respect for it since I was a little kid and how iconic it is to the model railroad hobby.
Gauge refers only to the width of the track.. outside of rail to outside of rail. Scale refers only to the proportional size in fractions of the object in relation to life size. Common mistake.
Just to be clear; 0 (zero) "gauge" is the distance between the railheads (1.25"), while the "scale" (size) varies slightly from the 1/4" to the foot scale reference....often incorrectly referred to as "1/48 SCALE". In essence, while the SIZE is often proprietary to each manufacturer, the GAUGE remains the same. "0 SCALE" is most often found through craftsmen, but, AFAIK, Atlas is the closest mass-producing company marketing 1/48 sized equipment, although some Lionel products are also available.
Scale and Gauge are references that are interchanged frequently and incorrectly. Scale refers to the ratio proportion of the model to the prototype. HO = 1:84, N=1:180 and so on. Gauge is the measurement of the width btw the inside of the running rails. It is not an indication of the model size.
"O" as in the letter "O", is the gauge or distance between the 2 outside rails. The 2 cabooses that you are showing are both "O" gauge. The difference is that the white caboose is "O" semi - scale meaning that it's dimensions are a little less than 1/4" to 1 scale foot. The orange caboose is actually "O" scale. It's dimensions are actually 1/4" to 1 scale foot ( 1:48 ), or at least the model should be. Sometimes a manufacturer will say a model is "O" scale, but some dimensions will be a little smaller or bigger, though still close to scale. With that being said, both will have the correct "O" gauge wheel centers.
Nice video, but...."Gauge" refers to the distance between the outer rails, regardless of whether the item is "scaled" to 1/64, 1/55, 1/48, 1/43, or whatever. "Scale" is simply the proportion of the model to reality,: 1/48, 1/55, 1/64, etc. Scale items do tend to have more details, as in your example, but that has nothing to do with scale. A modern NYC J3a "scale" Hudson will have more details than a Lionel 700E, but the 700E is still a "scale" model. I hope this helps. Again, nice video!
O gauge and o scale are the same thing when you say o scale is the same thing as o gauge, but semi scale is the same thing as o gauge just smaller so it can tackle tighter curves
For the longest time, ever since the early 1970's for me, collectors were always very specific to distinguish whether something was O gauge or O scale. Since the 1990's we've began combining the two terms thus making the distinction less obvious to the novice or new comer. In the truest since, O scale mean absolutely everything is scale reproduced. When Lionel refers to a new Visionline model as scale - it's not. It is most likely scale proportioned which mean larger than an O gauge 'toy' version but it's couplers are over-sized, it has blind drivers and the drivers which are flanged, the flanges are too big and the level of detailing, though looking really good, still lacks a lot of missing details. Now some real locomotives do have blind middle drivers, but not all of them. The ride height is also a bit high for true scale. Lionel's Visionline Big Boy compared with MTH's Big Boy reveals that the MTH model is nearly an inch longer than Lionel's, which one is correct? or are they both wrong? The Lionel model is correct. MTH's is just too long for what ever reason, it's a pencil on wheels. If you take a 3rd Rail Big Boy and place it side by side with one of these other manufacturers, you find that it's measurements match perfectly with those of Lionel. When a model is "Scale", it must adhere strictly to proportions of measurement in order to be a fine scale true representation of the original in miniature. Can an O gauge model have scale proportions? Absolutely, but in order to be an O (or any scale) Scale model, it must adhere to correct flanging, correct coupler sizes, correct ride height, and detailing must be complete. Now here's an area where collectors and operators run into challenges, can a "scale model" be 3-rail, or must it be strictly 2-rail, incapable of taking curves anything less than say an 8' radius? My future layout will incorporate O "Scale" 3-rail and 2-rail running side-by-side on code 148 hand-laid trackage. The 3-rail lines will have a code 100 rail placed down the middle sinking below the rail heads of the two outer rails giving it an even closer match to the 2-rail trackage it is running by. One more thing for consideration, we must consider the gauge of the rails themselves, the Proto-48 guys have it right, our track is technically too wide by about 3/32" hence the 1/43 scale out of Europe and MTH European models. Slightly larger but matching the standardized O gauge track width.
Your going to have to get a O-scale car to compare to O-gauge car. Only then will you know the difference. The O in O-gauge and O-scale is the gauge of the track. 3 rail rolling stock has over size wheels, couplers and most of the other add on parts. But their are some who have taken O-gauge 3rail cars and change wheel sets and couplers, Kadee seems to be the favorite.
This was informative and appreciated!!! However, I did have to rewind this video numerous times to decipher what you said, as the music over-rode your voice many times. Just me, but I don't think the music track added to your informative video, for me it was distracting from your advice. I DO however like the vibe of the music and maybe you could post that info so I can download the track! But, for this video, it did hinder my learning! Just now realizing perhaps I should disconnect my subwoofer and try???? STILL informative! and your video DID stop me from purchasing a piece that would not have fit my needs. THANK YOU! But maybe consider letting your expertise speak for itself, and skip the music track all together, or setting it's volume lower than your voice. JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
It's only a matter of time before lionel starts using scale prices for there scale trains lol. What is a 2 million dollar locomotive in real life equivalent to in o scale
Turn the music off when you talk! It is very distracting an makes it hard to hear what you are saying. At the very least find some music with way less percussion in it...
Wow. The O gauge version is WAYYYYY overpriced. Even the red one that you showed. $59.99 for that? I can see the scale model at that price but no way in hell that price for the o gauge model.
I think a lot of the confusion has to do with the misusing the terminology, as the "gauge" is the distance between the rails, whilst "scale" is the physical porportions of the models. It should also be mentioned that not all O gauge track has 3 rails, but that's another kettle of fish entirely.
Usually that's why the smaller-sized trains in O are referred to as "Semi-Scale", along with "Traditional O", "O-27", and our friends from across the pond call them "Coarse Scale".
As you say, the primary difference is the proportions. Scale items are bigger, and are more scale models than toys, the traditional O items are smaller, more toy-like, and will negotiate tighter curves. The gauge remains the same all around, though traditional O track often has tighter curves that most scale items can't traverse.
Personally an O-27 fan myself, you get the most bang for your real-estate buck while still having O gauge trains.
0-27 is the same track, just the ties are smaller and the railed sit closer to the ground. Curves are tighter too
@@skiiipawbs
Yes, O-27 is still O gauge, distance between the rails remains the same. As you say, the track itself has a smaller profile (height) and the curves are the tightest available in premade sections, 27 inches in diameter (hence the name, O-27).
Needless to say, most scale items (with a few exceptions) can't cope with such tight curves and switches, so O-27 is primarily the realm of semi-scale trains (though there are even some semi-scale items which can't negotiate it well).
As I mentioned, personally a fan of it as it lets you have a more complex track plan for a given space while still having O gauge. Even with semi-scale, an O gauge train makes quite the impression slamming down the rails as compared to the smaller HO and N gauge trains (though I like those as well).
The only thing I can add, is that some postwar and modern semi O items that are listed as O-27 are O scale dimensions. It is just that usually the O-27 items do not have as much details. As with MTG Railking, some of the cars and engines dimensions, are actually scale.
I was about to post something very similar to the first sentence of your comment, but you beat me to it by 2 years :-)
Great video Sam! Thanks for the information! Thanks for sharing! Have a great and awesome day!
You too! Thanks for taking time out of your evening to watch!
While I don’t model O scale due to my space and budget (I model n scale), I’ve had a lot of admiration and respect for it since I was a little kid and how iconic it is to the model railroad hobby.
Gauge refers only to the width of the track.. outside of rail to outside of rail. Scale refers only to the proportional size in fractions of the object in relation to life size. Common mistake.
Just to be clear; 0 (zero) "gauge" is the distance between the railheads (1.25"), while the "scale" (size) varies slightly from the 1/4" to the foot scale reference....often incorrectly referred to as "1/48 SCALE". In essence, while the SIZE is often proprietary to each manufacturer, the GAUGE remains the same.
"0 SCALE" is most often found through craftsmen, but, AFAIK, Atlas is the closest mass-producing company marketing 1/48 sized equipment, although some Lionel products are also available.
I usually look at o gauge as the width, and the scale like the proportions
That sounds about right
Nice job Sam, I have both O scale and O gauge on my layout.
Im finding it hard with online listings because alot of times people will refer to O guage to O scale and vise versa
Scale and Gauge are references that are interchanged frequently and incorrectly. Scale refers to the ratio proportion of the model to the prototype. HO = 1:84, N=1:180 and so on. Gauge is the measurement of the width btw the inside of the running rails. It is not an indication of the model size.
Excellent video Sam. I love them both but I'm mostly O-gauge. They look better on my layout and they're just cool.
I am too but I’ve started heading down the scale rabbit hole😬
@@samsogaugetrains8670 I also am going down the scale route.
Sam, this is a solid video. Very well done, and it did I fact answer my question. Looking forward to more!
Thank you Matt!
So O Scale is more detailed and more of a 1/48 model. So when designing a detailed train layout, O Scale is the way to go correct?
If you are going more detailed, then yes. Scale trains will be near perfect measurements.
Great video Sam! Thanks for the information👍
😎 Cool demo - well done • Cheers from the Detroit & Mackinac Railway 🚂
Thanks for giving your take on this important and sometimes confusing issue for those new to the hobby. Thanks. T4
"O" as in the letter "O", is the gauge or distance between the 2 outside rails. The 2 cabooses that you are showing are both "O" gauge. The difference is that the white caboose is "O" semi - scale meaning that it's dimensions are a little less than 1/4" to 1 scale foot. The orange caboose is actually "O" scale. It's dimensions are actually 1/4" to 1 scale foot ( 1:48 ), or at least the model should be. Sometimes a manufacturer will say a model is "O" scale, but some dimensions will be a little smaller or bigger, though still close to scale. With that being said, both will have the correct "O" gauge wheel centers.
Great video Sam
Thank you Sid!
Great video Sam!
Sam its Sam Nice video! Cheers!
is there a way to turn off the background music?
Nice video, but...."Gauge" refers to the distance between the outer rails, regardless of whether the item is "scaled" to 1/64, 1/55, 1/48, 1/43, or whatever. "Scale" is simply the proportion of the model to reality,: 1/48, 1/55, 1/64, etc. Scale items do tend to have more details, as in your example, but that has nothing to do with scale. A modern NYC J3a "scale" Hudson will have more details than a Lionel 700E, but the 700E is still a "scale" model. I hope this helps. Again, nice video!
Simply put... One is a Toy operating on 3 rails... One is a Scale model operating on 2 rails... You're welcome... Good stuff thanks for posting.
O gauge and o scale are the same thing when you say o scale is the same thing as o gauge, but semi scale is the same thing as o gauge just smaller so it can tackle tighter curves
What is the difference british o scale vs american o scale
That I cannot answer at this moment. I’ve never really had experience with British O Scale. That might be a google question!
For the longest time, ever since the early 1970's for me, collectors were always very specific to distinguish whether something was O gauge or O scale. Since the 1990's we've began combining the two terms thus making the distinction less obvious to the novice or new comer. In the truest since, O scale mean absolutely everything is scale reproduced. When Lionel refers to a new Visionline model as scale - it's not. It is most likely scale proportioned which mean larger than an O gauge 'toy' version but it's couplers are over-sized, it has blind drivers and the drivers which are flanged, the flanges are too big and the level of detailing, though looking really good, still lacks a lot of missing details. Now some real locomotives do have blind middle drivers, but not all of them. The ride height is also a bit high for true scale. Lionel's Visionline Big Boy compared with MTH's Big Boy reveals that the MTH model is nearly an inch longer than Lionel's, which one is correct? or are they both wrong? The Lionel model is correct. MTH's is just too long for what ever reason, it's a pencil on wheels. If you take a 3rd Rail Big Boy and place it side by side with one of these other manufacturers, you find that it's measurements match perfectly with those of Lionel. When a model is "Scale", it must adhere strictly to proportions of measurement in order to be a fine scale true representation of the original in miniature. Can an O gauge model have scale proportions? Absolutely, but in order to be an O (or any scale) Scale model, it must adhere to correct flanging, correct coupler sizes, correct ride height, and detailing must be complete. Now here's an area where collectors and operators run into challenges, can a "scale model" be 3-rail, or must it be strictly 2-rail, incapable of taking curves anything less than say an 8' radius? My future layout will incorporate O "Scale" 3-rail and 2-rail running side-by-side on code 148 hand-laid trackage. The 3-rail lines will have a code 100 rail placed down the middle sinking below the rail heads of the two outer rails giving it an even closer match to the 2-rail trackage it is running by. One more thing for consideration, we must consider the gauge of the rails themselves, the Proto-48 guys have it right, our track is technically too wide by about 3/32" hence the 1/43 scale out of Europe and MTH European models. Slightly larger but matching the standardized O gauge track width.
Great job 👍
You misssed that the O Scale has lower flenges. That is visible in your video.
Your going to have to get a O-scale car to compare to O-gauge car. Only then will you know the difference. The O in O-gauge and O-scale is the gauge of the track. 3 rail rolling stock has over size wheels, couplers and most of the other add on parts. But their are some who have taken O-gauge 3rail cars and change wheel sets and couplers, Kadee seems to be the favorite.
Thanks for the video
This was informative and appreciated!!! However, I did have to rewind this video numerous times to decipher what you said, as the music over-rode your voice many times. Just me, but I don't think the music track added to your informative video, for me it was distracting from your advice. I DO however like the vibe of the music and maybe you could post that info so I can download the track! But, for this video, it did hinder my learning! Just now realizing perhaps I should disconnect my subwoofer and try???? STILL informative! and your video DID stop me from purchasing a piece that would not have fit my needs. THANK YOU! But maybe consider letting your expertise speak for itself, and skip the music track all together, or setting it's volume lower than your voice. JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
Thank you
O GAUGE ON TWO RAIL IN UK.
It's only a matter of time before lionel starts using scale prices for there scale trains lol. What is a 2 million dollar locomotive in real life equivalent to in o scale
IN UK O GAUGE IS BIG.
Nice discussion. Could have done without the music.
O Gauge is the model scale where it isn’t suppose to be all realistic. O scale is suppose to be very realistic with a lot of details.
Right on!
@@samsogaugetrains8670 I have mostly O gauge pieces including Lionel and MTH Railking but I do have a few MTH Premier O scale pieces!
I’ve started going down the O Scale Rabbit Hole 😬
Turn the music off when you talk! It is very distracting an makes it hard to hear what you are saying. At the very least find some music with way less percussion in it...
As long as the flanges and couplers are grossly over sized , it cant be called 0 scale
Music needs to be turned down great video otherwise
I realized it after I published it, future videos the music will be more quiet!
Wow. The O gauge version is WAYYYYY overpriced. Even the red one that you showed. $59.99 for that? I can see the scale model at that price but no way in hell that price for the o gauge model.
Keep in mind the red caboose I showed was retail price point and that particular example was new. Older models are not as high in price.
The music is a source of irritation
I realized this. Won’t happen again.
The background beat is so bad I stopped watching
Fair. My editing skills have improved since this. Maybe time for a redo.
All three rail electric trains are toys, not in the same ball park as model railroading in "O"scale proportions
Not true at all. Your telling me a vision line model from lionel that's almost a 2500 to 3k is a toy?
@@MattyCtrains Yes. If it is running on three rails and is not a scale model of a prototype, and mas produced, It's a TOY
Someone said thet o scale would b best for D&D but i think g gauge would be better
Great video Sam. Your a bit of a Pennsy fan with that caboose?? As far as me I have both o-gauge and o-scale. Layout is looking good!!