Playstation 4K: A bad precedent for consoles?
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- Опубліковано 27 бер 2016
- Some new info as of 3/28 seems to confirm some of these fears.
WSJ: i.imgur.com/Gnk62Vu.jpg
Instead of trying to be a weirdo pretentious Morpheus like I did in that awful "Gameplay, Art and The Will" video, I want to make videos like this one more often: where I just kind of talk about something.
This first time, I talk a little bit about the leaked "Playstation 4K" (Playstation 4.5 by some sources). A lot of this is highly speculative, and I don't really care. That's the nature of discussing leaks, and this is also more of an account of a possibility I'd like to avoid than strictly informative thing.
An article for some context: www.destructoid.com/are-you-ga...
Also, I know Xbox isn't "ending," but the wall of separation between PC and Xbox seems to be coming down in some way, and incremental, proprietary hardware seems likely in my eyes.
MUSIC:
.saib - "in your arms."
Jordan Elgie - "Roses" - Ігри
![PC Master Race Explained in 9 minutes [Animated]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RRY1jrIDhvU/mqdefault.jpg)
"what's at steak" really dude...
Um... what's the background song that plays at the beginning of the video? It sounds nice and I can't find the name for it in the description, comments and the video itself.
+.As-Arsenic Sorry yeah I just forgot: added it to the description.
Probably my new favorite video from you
What game is the archer at 5:16?
I just want to know if it's backwards compatible. If I can play ps3 game discs on it I'm in.
The longer links in the description are broken, can you update them?
+Tehturkz fixed
I do think Nintendo usually handled their handheld upgrades well, since only the New 3DS and Game Boy Color blocked you from playing certain games, since they did have improved hardware that some games used. I do think if consoles are still gonna justify their existence, besides exclusives, they also need a gimmick that the PC can't replicate or would need to be a peripheral (which never sell well) in the PC market. It's what appeals to some PC Gamers about the Wii U and why it escapes the scrutiny they place on the PS4/Xbone.
... oh I get it! You're being ironic right? XD haha good vid I lov3 your parodies, Bru
very good video. Even if some people disagree with you, I dont think anyone can deny that you bring up very valid and important points. Also, nice editing!
I came expecting your earthbound video but was not disappointed, in fact I think this video is probably one of your best edited and produced and really shows improvement on matching humorous video cuts with your dry delivery. Uhhh, basically I thought you did a good job, and offered a very reasonable and fair perspective. My guess is the PS4.5/4k will be their slim model with a few more ports in the back, but it's still so early. Also sidenote, it is a shame that Bloodborne is the only PS4 exclusive worth owning but holy hell did Sony handle that launch better than Namco Bandai's current shit show with DS3.
The Earthbound video is a lot of work. If it was ready soon, it would be bad. This video didn't take too long to make though. I can make a video like this, just talking about something, weekly or semiweekly.
oh yeah, I figured. It took MM months to make his dark souls video, I had just seen you talking about it. I didn't mean to imply you should rush anything, you gotta do it at the pace you like. Something like this semiweekly would be pretty cool though.
A very good video. Thumbs up.
I agree that adding anything other than a new hdmi standard that supports 4k content and video playback only ( Netflix/Bluray) would be somewhat of a mistake for Sony.
Even though developers could just optimize thier game engines to be scalable as they are on pc and have the original ps4 the "minimum spec" base and scale up with framerate or bells and whistle graphically. I feel that people who have bought the system last holiday and this year would especially feel less confident in Sony.
Changing the console model, to something akin to the cell phone market would really suck. The cell phone market is horribly exploiting people with all these tiny feature upgrades requiring a new phone a few times a year.
If Sony does go this route. I don't think they'd be so dumb as to make certain games exclusive to the newer iteration of hardware. It would be bad for thier userbase and potentially hurt thier brand loyalty very severly imo.
They're winning the gen with sales, no reason to make this kind of controversial move...unless they'd getting too greedy imo so we'll see....
The problem is that the two console manufacturers released machines that were way too underpowered in relation to current tech, it actually makes sense to release more powerful hardware although it is morally reprehensible.
"it's what's at steak"
i am in love with you
in other news this is just further evidence that consoles are on their way out and PC is becoming the new norm
just update your graphics card fam
i agree and sadly you would have to upgrade less my 700 dollar card could last me the life of the ps4 and xbox one and cpu's now days are lasting 4 or 5 years for gaming even 5 year old cpu's are still running games on ultra consoles are becoming a big wast of money and they see everyone buying a new cell phone every year this was there plan the hole time thats why they sucked so bad form the start of this Gen
I also don't like these consoles x.5 trend. When they announced recently that only the new 3DS would run SNES Virtual Console games I got really pissed. I would really like to play those games on the 3DS, but I'm not buying another console just because of that. If they are planning to do that, then they should at least provide some upgrade paths for us. But even in that case it doesn't seem like a good idea. It confuses the market, creates some bizarre new products (like games that will only run if you have certain console version, how will a mom know that when buying games for her children?). Just remember what happened to Sega after coming out with multiple add-ons for the Genesis that just made it very confusing and took a lot of $$$ from people and they lost a lot of credibility in the market. The good thing about the consoles is that games are tailored specifically for that platform. So when I buy a game I know I am getting the experience exactly as the game director wanted it to be for that console, not more and not less. Now we will have games that run with different settings depending on the console version, so the experience won't be tailored anymore and that will probably mean that it won't be as good. If that's the case, then I think going back to PC would be the best move for home consoles.
ps4 has one games.
+Ass Burgers and what does xbox have?
Douglas Harris
no gaems
+Douglas Harris The wost Halo ever.
These are not consoles anymore, these are locked down PCs.
I want something better.
I love your content, dude. Such a healthy balance of absolute debauchery and post-ironic analysis.
By post ironic, do you mean regular sincerity with some "jokes?"
+brutalcumpowder Mostly how you're capable of shitting all over the medium while simultaneously showing genuine love for it. The "jokes" serve a purpose beyond just poking fun at this clusterfuck of an industry.
I'm a PS4 owner too and I think there aren't enough new features to upgrade PS4 to such. 4K isn't enough to attract me on upgrading and if games that we've been waiting for will be released on PS4k. One word for sony, "FUCK!"
I love your shitposting but this stuff is way better. Can't wait for your Earthbound video.
Agree with whole argument and concerns, but honestly the 4K is probably more about selling TVs than it is about doing a new 3DS.
The exclusives for ps4 should go to ps4k, he is not the 5th generation, is just a tiny upgrade, so they should put the exclusives too.
And maybe a promotion? Upgrade your ps4 console to the new one with $200!
Sounds good
IT'S SHIT
BIG SHOCK
For me it is good as I'm playing XBox One and looking
to switch back to PS. PS4K will play all PS4 games
including the Uncharted series and the Last of Us.
To me, it seems possible that consoles could move away from the established timelines and locked hardware we have come to know in favor of becoming premade computers.
My god. Xbox and Sony will someday be a meme just like Alienware is today.
I prefer PC, but I can see Playstation is beginning to CRUSH Xbox
I disagree that exclusives are the only reason to own a console. There is a lot of other characteristics about consoles, about how they work and how you own and play your games, from friends who play them also, and balanced hardware and control method. I prefer to play with joypad over mouse and keyboard, and therefore I wanna play against other people using the same.
***** I do own it, because while there is the small print, but lets face it, the reality is very different. I can play it whenever i want on or offline with no reliance on an online service, i can give them away, lend them out or even sell them if i want either privately, to an online trader or to a shop, and thats all i would really wanna do with them if i didn't wanna keep them that is. No amount of fine print changes that reality and has ever prevented me or anyone else i know from doing all that, so the fine print is pretty inconsequential and not worth the virtual paper its written on in reality.
***** I was talking about disk yes, and fortunately on console with all tripple A games you have a choice of disk or download, but for obvious reasons, i always opt for choose disk.
I completely agree with you though about downloading, in that you don't truely own the game but more bought rights to access it in their terms, and this control and access to it is very much open to abuse and misuse at these companys and services discretion.
***** Yes GoG is quite good and i like the idea of it, but its still essentially downloading and is generslly not new games hence the name. Also i don't really like having my games as data sitting on a hard disk, because say for example something happened to your computer or hard disk and the service you downloaded your games from is no longer running or there is complications with your licence or you simply don't have internet at the time for whatever reason, your going to have trouble getting access to your games. GOG is great for getting selected games for and to run on non-old pc's though i will say that, because contrary to popular belief, pc's do not run the entire catalog of pg games despite what some pc gamers would have you believe, far from it, so its good that GoG are re-doing games to run on modern pc's.
***** Well thats all down to the disks/memory card etc owner isn't it. I for example take care of my disks, so it's never been a problem. I've been into gaming for literally as long as gaming has been around, and I've never(not one single occasion had a disk fail on me, simply because i treat them with respect and basic care. Beyond that, most disks can be fixed if its just a matter of scratches, but I've never needed such services as i say :)
Perhaps PS 4.5's purpose is to support Sony's soon to be released VR core bundle. Maybe Sony doesn't want to spook its competition into accelerating the release of their VR systems, so it's using 4K as a red herring.
how does having a choice to to upgrade your ps4 make you ps4 useless?
has long has there are not games for ps4.5 only and games come on both who cares?
ps4.5 coming out doesnt make the ps4 weaker its still the same.
the "leap"from last gen to current gen was incremental as fuck anyway m8.the thing u r forewarning about has already happened dude,we already cracked open the floodgates when we all ran out and purchased the ps4 and xbone.and even worse we all made it abundantly clear we will buy whatever they offer blindly when thousands of idiots put down paid pre orders 4 these consoles b4 specs were even confirmed!
Its just going to be a fps difference.
I'm not buying PlayStation 4.5 because my current ps4 is perfectly fine but I will be getting the Morpheus VR on release because that's a whole new thing I have NEVER witnessed!!!
I agree, its definately a bad precident. This goes against what consoles are supposed the be about.. You used to know where you stand with consoles, but now we're supposed to buy yet another version not far into its life at that, and it will also create an graphical and frame rate imbalance for multiplayer. One thing i loved about consoles, is that everyone had the same hardware.
There's a simple solution here: wait til the generation ends, then buy the remasters of all those exclusives. No risk of getting screwed by later hardware revisions, and the games will run somewhat decently instead of like dogshit (which is the case with most modern console games on their original platform).
it won't run games at 4K it's going to use a polaris based APU GCN 1.3/4.0 And will quite happily run games at a solid 1080p 60fps. But 4K... No haha absolutely no.
it will upscale games not 4k native! so yeah it will run them!
+323 2jz still not 4K though is it.
word
0:38
%100 agree if this happen i will never get any ps again
If the PS4K is real, I have a feeling Sony's major selling point for people who were early adopters of the PS4 will be that the PS4K will be backwards compatible with PS3 games. If this new system is just a resolution upgrade that'd be pretty stupid on Sony's part.
+GameRamblings Its not just a resolution upgrade. The ps4 is very weak, they will HAVE to add in new hardware.
What's the point of this video? you keep taking about it like it's not a huge speculation on your part. You are not predicting or analyzing anything, you're making alternate history fiction.
I am talking like it is speculation on my part. Because it is. The point is to highlight a possibility I want to avoid.
+brutalcumpowder
I just assumed that such weird possibility is not worth talking about for 6 and a half minutes, especially since some of the leaks said that PS4 and PS4k/4.5/whatever games must be compatible. You've even discussed on the podcast the fact that "4K" in the name comes from the ability to play 4K media, not games. I would argue with you about the reasoning why most of the people buy consoles or what direction MS console hardware department is going, but it was not the point of your video, the point was about strange future you drew out of limited speculation that goes too wild. No hard feelings, but most of the stuff I've seen so far indicates at PS4 Slim version: a redesign of console along with change in manufacturing process, hence the different APU some sources report. I think it's too soon to talk about the end of consoles cycles.
+g1gabyt3 Again, I'm not trying to make a claim on what's "going to happen" or saying that a PS4K will precipitate the end of consoles. But, there is no way a new PS4 can support 4K better (whatever that means) without having increased processing power.
We're dealing with a leak, so reports conflict on what the system will actually be. However, while many sources read that the system won't run games at 4K, it must have improved hardware of some kind if it's capable of any new features the old PS4 is not.
I'm saying, from a business perspective, it might be very appealing for Sony to let games run better on PS4K or even release PS4K exclusive games. That won't end consoles in one fell swoop, but it will lessen the value of an "investment" in Sony consoles because you simply cannot trust that the feature set you buy at launch will be the same feature set people are buying later. This was not the case with the PS3 slim.
At any rate, even if the PS4K gets no exclusive and all games run identically, my trust in Sony console purchases in general has *already* been weakened, because most reports suggest this isn't just a streamline of design. The PS4K will be able to something the PS4 cannot. And this makes a good deal of sense: the PS4 was hardly the bulkmonster the PS3 was, it's not exactly in dire need of a slimming.
+brutalcumpowder
From the business perspective they need to keep the $400 price mark, rebranding the console is the only choice. It's not that the Sony is trying to set a precedent or break the ecosystem, they need to keep the price for a tech that gets older with every day and they will do anything to keep it in check. While they can make the PS4.5 exclusive, it is not in their or publisher's favor to divide the current userbase for more than 1 big game max, if we assume they would go the exclusives route. If we assume they would go the route of optimization, the games won't just magically jump from 30 to 60 frames, but they may be more stable. The future you've described does not depend on Sony, but the ability of devs to not fuck up. Sony needs this to further establish the dominance and make actual money from the console, the actual precedents and weird schemes may come in future generations, when only Sony and Nintendo would be the big players.
+g1gabyt3 it's not a weird possibility at all. If ps4k is going to be at least two times powerful than the simple one, then sooner or later there will definetely be games that are exclusive only for it. You will understand if you try to think about it. And btw i totally agree with everything said in the vid, and that's why i'm switching to pc. And imo, if everything will continue the same way, in several years there won't be any consoles. And u know, who gives a fck? Pc gaming was so much better than consoles before the fckin pirates and torrents.
like a cod
it is nice and good that Sony will offer two choices !! nobody dont complains when Intel refresh every 1-2 years CPU-s which are preety expensive and nothing exceptional in compare to previous generation(s) except some 5-10% boost ,but now (stupid) peoples says how can Sony made 2 consoles and how this peoples with only PS4 will be cutted for performance of stronger PS4,5!!
You make the obvious good point regarding incremental updates...but consoles exclusives are a joke. I'm a PC gamer. As much as I'd like to play the exclusives I'm not spending money on 2 or 3 consoles just for a couple of games.
In an ideal world without business bs one platform (PC) would be great.
This will fragment the PS4 market. Great move.
I think that the greatest failing of your Schopenhauer video wasn't so much that you were being a pretentious morpheus, just that you were doing it kinda poorly. The structure felt very essay-ish, but it also felt a little undergraduate-essay-ish. I also think that, while talking about Schopenhauer would've been fine in an essay, it didn't really work in the video format, particularly because a lot of people didn't get it.
At the end of the day, though, it was a good point. I think you met a really solid middle ground between casual youtube-ness and pretentious morpheus-ness in your "Separating Gameplay From Art" video, which is still my favorite video of yours, and has inspired me to write a few essays of my own (as a graduate student; Literary Criticism). I'd really love to see more videos along those lines from you, you're one of the few people that I think actually understands how to talk about games as an art form.
*A really hard time spotting the difference*
And... there goes your entire argument. Play the witcher 3 at 40-60 frames at 4k then get back to me, it's a night and day difference.
+Michael James It does make a difference when you're close to the screen. PC games (or really any games played at a computer monitor distance) will be very apparently crisper. But those returns fall off the farther away the screen is from your eyes. A 4K TV at the other side of your living room will not produce the same benefits.
+brutalcumpowder Your eyes must be very shit then, it's a night and day difference to me as well, seriously, do you wear glasses or something?
i play it in 4k around 30fps! and it looks way better than my 1080p t.v
Sony do NOT stop hackers online. So there is literally no point in buying one. Want to get ripped of in 4k?
4k is a meme people want because its new
+Lennic Dont you enjoy crisp images?
when I'm 2,5 meters away from my tv screen, no, I'd rather just have graphical fidelity and high framerate
Lennic When Im 30cm away from my monitor, I sure enjoy the extra resolution.
+Orange Zone He's got you beaten because higher framerate would still be better. Framerate = gameplay (less input lag, more smoothness of motion), resolution = eye candy once you're in the realm of "HD".
Field of View I play 4k60 fps in most action, racing and strategy games (when my GPU can handle) and I use my old PC to play CSGO and other fps games in a 1080p120htz monitor.
Who won again?
End of Xbox? Hell no, I bet Xbox One can run Mario in 4k.
Too be honest I don't actually care. For me its about the games, not the system.
out dating their hardware quicker LMFAO it was outdated before release
I for one am glad consoles are finely dead. Exclusives are cancer.
go PC or go home.
Well... sad to say, but maybe Microsoft's Xbox and Sony's Playstation don't deserve to survive.
But why wouldnt the PS4 and this ¨PS4K¨ not be able to play the same games?
Cant the games detect if you are playing in one system or another and adjust the resolution acordingly?
Everything else should be the same, no? Just like you would change the resolution of your pc game if you change the monitor/GPU. You dont need a new game for that...
+Orange Zone The only way a PS4K could support higher resolution gameplay is by having more processing power. That extra processing power could and likely would be used to run games faster, or to run exclusive games that the vanilla PS4 couldn't. That's what the New 3DS does also.
+brutalcumpowder Im not an expect, but from my knowledge, the resolution affects mostly the GPU, not the CPU or memory. If the only difference between a PS4 and PS4K is a better GPU in the later, it would be pretty easy to make games compatible with both devices.
+brutalcumpowder I mean, even if technically possible, sony could try to force devs to make PS4.5 exclusive games to sell hardware, that would be nothing new.
+Orange Zone "Processing power" doesn't refer to either the GPU or CPU exclusively. The "PU" in both stands for "processing unit." An improvement to either piece of hardware grants a system "more processing power."
The PS4 uses an APU (accelerated processing unit) that integrates the functions of a CPU and GPU.
I'll also refer you again to the New 3DS. Like with the New 3DS, I think most games will be compatible with both PS4 and PS4K, but that there could be some high end exclusives that you can only play on the PS4K. At the very least, from a raw computing perspective, all games would have the capacity to run better on the PS4K, and Sony has no reason not to capitalize on the added leeway the upped processing power affords them, especially since better performance will incentivize people to upgrade and spend money.
+brutalcumpowder Even then, games could be programmed with that in mind, no?. Maybe the new meta is to program games compatible with both systems. If not, things get fucked.
This is why pc will save you money
Fuck this industry, these console manufacturers are trying too hard to be like PC, consoles were never meant to be that way, consoles are a long term investment, always been that way.
+theurinal consoles switch every 5 years. the leak says the this thing will be released in 2017 and that's 4 years after 2013. the sega cd was released 3 years after genesis release.
+theurinal No, consoles have not always been long term investments. Consoles were always 3-4.5 year cycles.
Consoles are reached a toxic market with problematic purchasing statistics. PC, unlike consoles, has hit record digital content purchases, high end hardware sales, and higher technological advancements. It is currently the healthiest market. Why wouldn't consoles want to emulate that success?
+theurinal Why do I keep seeing this term "investment". Why do you think a degrading peice of technology that's dated on its launch day is an "investment". Just because the idiot in the video said it, doesn't mean you need to go run around screaming about it too.
PS4 is weak compared to a modern computer. As of today, there isn't much reason to buy one. For 400$ I can build a pretty decent computer honestly... AND I can upgrade it when i desire.
That said, the new ps4 and the old ps4 are going to be fully compatible with each other, theres absolutely no reason for the tears.
+JgHaverty I don't think you can build a successful pc that runs at the same power as a ps4 with 400, simply because the processing power of the cpu and the gpu needs to be significantly more powerful than what is necessary for the game.
PCs have the disadvantage of running complex OS, and developers usually optimize their graphics for something more powerful than whatever you can get with under 400. Their is no one size fits all with computers.
Consoles have the innate advantage of being virtually identical in hardware. The OS lacks serious complexity, so the computation speeds necessary on a pc, is unnecessary on the console.
If you are going to buy a $400 pc to play games, you should seriously reconsider and go straight to a 6-700 dollar one.
The reason why consoles are considered investments, is because their are no module upgrades necessary to enjoy the experience. You pay $400, and hope that the market yields viable exclusives to make your purchase worth while. If the exclusive market is poor on both sides, then your investment was wasted. If the exclusive market is better on the other side, you made a poor investment.
Any purchase made for a speculative fiscal or material result is an investment, because you aren't particularly sure what you are going to get out of it.
+Cervello you can build a pc to run all modern titles at medium settings at 30 fps just like consoles for 400$. the jaguar apu is similar strngth to the a10 7850k.
Theres been 2 generations of gpu's and 3 generations of CPU (intel) released since the PS4 has been released. Its not a "tiny incremental upgrade". By rumor alone, the new system will be considerably more powerful, have more features, get faster processors, and will be an upgrade overall.
The ps4 is 3 years old now. Consoles get dated very quickly compared to PC's. Looking at ANY tech as an "investment" is a poor practice. All tech becomes irrelevant, and a console is no different.
Also, they already said they would keep backwards compatibility to the standard ps4. You lose absolutely nothing by having this console exist.
+Lonewolf Nazgul Yup, fuck corporate greed. I'm going to meditate outside.
Lol, its adorable you think its any different than it has been...Lonewolf Nazgul
time for a kid to go job hunting ✌