I can't remember the last time I bought "new". Everything in the collection is pretty much 2nd hand. Accurail, proto, bluebox all do fine by me. A little paint, metal wheels, and couplers make them look just fine. I just refuse to buy into the overinflation of the hobby.
I hear you my RR may as well be called the e-bayrr. I've been into 36' cars for a while now. So I'm limited to roundhouse some times I'll get a blue box 40' but no too often anymore.
Same, I buy only a few, the rest? 2nd hand. I buy new steam locomotives as I can find. I look forward to buy 1 or 2 locomotives, maybe and some accessories. After that? I should begin my layout. Hopefully this year
I’ve been snagging second hand rolling stock at my local hobby shot for $3 a shot ( condition as is) to practice painting on and I’m seeing a difference between companies and quality as I take the shells off to prime and start painting, I never thought twice on the differences until this video!
The Atlas car has MTL trucks and couplers installed, not the original Atlas trucks and couplers. Also, I wouldn't call the 90ton hopper from the trainman line as a higher end car, as even Atlas has said that the trainman line is their low end line.
There are a few more steps up beyond BLI,,Micro Trains couplers are great but their rolling stock has been surpassed by many manufacturers now. Atlas,Athearn (although not all of their stuff is created equal)Exact Rail and others have really up the competition
Your right Dave , but it can get to a point 50 to 60 dollars for one N scale car. The alternative 3 at 20$ or 2 at 30$ . We have to be smart with money for rolling stock.
I like to by roiling stock that I put to gather as a kit some cars have a lot of parts to put on and they were so much cheaper to by $ 4.00 to $ 9.00 , felt that was part of being engender of my trains.
The Atlas 90T hopper is NOT a good comparison. That specific model uses tooling from the 70s, it's a great filler car, I have dozens bought cheaply and repainted. You really should find some of the Atlas former BLMA cars for comparison.
Yea It really threw my opinion of the video off a bit.. It's one of those cars that the cost keeps going up and up and there is no improvements on at all.
It's not important for pricing reasons. Models of reefers and boxcars are almost entirely structurally identical, with the major differences being solely in detailing. If a company is selling ice-cooled reefers for significantly more than comparably sized and detailed boxcars, then that company is gouging the price of their reefers.
Its a hobbie that all it is. Plastic is plastic and when it all come out,, it still just a toy you play with. Ive been modeling for 44 years and the young people cant get into it because of price. In all my years i have never seen a train car worth 100$.
I started model railroading in the 1970's when I was a mere 7 years old. I insisted on N scale. My dad thought I was crazy because N scale is so small, but when you are 7 years old it's not small at all. Tiny hands, sharp vision. It was perfect. When I got older I understood his reluctance. lol But anyway, I have Kadee (now Micro-Trains) freight cars from the 1970s that are still the industry standard. Metal under-bodies instead of separate weights. Crisp details. Separate foot stirrups, break wheels and running boards made from nylon instead of styrene. Sliding doors. Drop ends on gondolas. Not to mention their couplers. It took decades for other manufactures to come even close to Micro-Trains detail and value. Why they are not represented in your video is perplexing. Also, BLA and Scale-Trains have produced some exceptional covered hoppers with ridiculous detail. Those brands should have been your high tier.
The six Micro-Trains cars I recently bought (a four-car pack of tank cars and two 50' box cars, all Southern Pacific) probably cost more than the TEN Atlas and Bachmann Silver cars I have. But it was worth it. They look good and they run very well right out of the box. And they have some heft - unlike the other cars on my roster they can be pushed over a Kato #4 turnout consistently without derailing, and I think a lot of that has to do with their weight. All my Atlas and Bachmann cars have been upgraded with MTL trucks, btw.
Hi, Jimmy This is the first of your videos I have watched. I will be looking for more soon! I have read most of the comments below. There really is a lot of different views on this issue. I know I have many, but we all enjoy this hobby. I would like to share with you and others something I have learned over the years. I bought my First locomotive when I was just 16 y/o, a Milwaukee road SD9 which I still have today! I'm now 65 and proudly show it to my grand kids! I said all that just as a background so you know I have done this for a long time. My layout when I was young I could never seem to get it right. I would spend hours and hours with tiny details. Then when people came to see my Trains the remarks were '' how cute '' little trains. -------------- WHAT???? I could not believe my ears NO one noticed the DETAILS..... Hours I spent, I thought wasted? That's when I knew why there are many levels, just as you showed in this video. I used all those levels. The cheap ones never run on the main line. They just sit along buildings and yards as props. The better ones are used in service. Most of my rolling stock is now passenger coaches pulled by E's and F's which is my favorite Trains. And of course the Geeps for freight. Because that's what I grew up with in the 60's and 70's So I have learned you CAN use all these things to build the best layout you can. So enjoy it all, whatever you chose to use! After all it IS your layout, you are the boss!!!!
You get what you pay for, microtrains are the only ones that never give problems out the box. I found I spend more on cheaper cars fixing them, then just buying a microtrains car.
I am just as happy running old Tyco or life-like rolling stock as i ma with the higher end Rolling stock and even buying in lots on ebay go ahead and make fun of me if you want but thst will not change my mind because of what someone keeps saying Its my Rail Road
I started Nscaling in the 90's & was taken back by the sticker shock. At first I was buying less expensive models to jump start my collection to learn later that I should have waited to buy higher end cars. I've been collecting passenger cars & locomotives & will now buy only Kato brand models. I've kept receipts & price stickers on each box & see how inflation is in force. My collection is part of my estate & will be given to someone I know whom will appreciate what this is with hopes that it will not be sold. My family knows my passion for this but to them, these are just little cars in boxes that are taking up space. It takes time to appreciate the intricate & painstaking details in workmanship & what to look for in this hobby. It's not for kids, just for the big boys with matching budgets.
I promise not to sell your stuff. Haha. Seriously, I know my wife will have 1-800-GOT JUNK in the driveway before I'm even in the ground. None of my kids are interested in my odd hobbies....Hot Wheels, GI Joes, Action Figures, and the model train thing.
All of my N scale locomotives are Kato brand which are 3 Amtrak P42 Genesis, a Santa Fe SDP40F & the Lima 4-8-4 GS-4 number 4449 in Southern Pacific Daylight colors which pulls my 10 car Morning Daylight train which is Kato & is my excursion train, I have a Kato N scale Superliner train that is 11 cars & a baggage car which is the Amtrak Coast Starlight. I have 24 freight cars that are Kato, Micro Trains, Atlas, and a Santa Fe caboose which is Bachmann & an Athearn Southern Pacific bay window caboose. I will in the future buy a Southern Pacific freight locomotive as my N scale model railroad is he Pacific West Coast & it will focus on the West Coast during the last quarter of the 20th.Century from 1974 to 1999.
My cars are almost 100% Micro-Trains Line (MTL). The detail is exceptional and they are very reliable. They also hold their value. Edit/Add: I also have a number of KATO passenger cars. Not only is the exterior well detailed but so is the interior. It is also easy to install the KATO interior lighting kits in them if they did not come with it already installed.
Yes sir..!!! You are absolutely right. I also have many Micro-Trains cars... some pressurized covered hoppers are among the best.... super detailed, including metallic runways at the top and discharge pipes at the bottom. Now.... I'm a fan of passsenger cars.... Someone else arround there also think KATO is one of the best brands in the market for passenger cars? My Kato colection includes American models (my favorite is the California Zephyr) but I also have some (well, several) Japanese Shinkansen, and they are amazing.....
And scale trains, red caboose, blma? I wouldnt put MTL up there, ask way too much for plastic wheels and not body mounted couplers with under par detail.
MTL has been hands down the most consistent manufacturer I've bought from. Everything works great out of the box and I never have to worry about buying from them. Love the channel, man. Keep up the good work!
Two things... 1) You mentioned several times, the weight used in the cars, while evaluating it's merit, to a degree. But you never compared each of those weights to the NMRA standard. I think the weight which is closest to the standard should "earn points" in your overall presentation. 2) I'll simply echo what so many other commenters have written, about how Micro Trains and Exact Rail are higher quality than the five you showed. That you didn't include them in this video leaves us to wonder if have any in your collection? :)
@@JF-lt5zc Don't say that around G-scalers. Seriously, though, the larger the scale, the less important metal wheelsets are up until you get into the larger rideable "backyard" scales (where metal becomes necessary due to the weight). This may sound counter-intuitive, but with G-scale and similar sized equipment, plastic parts can be made beefy enough that there's not much of an issue with them. Most older LGB equipment runs plastic wheelsets without issue.
@@JF-lt5zc They can, but with G-scale it's far less of an issue. The size of the rails means there's a lot more contact surface for electrical contact, and there's specialized powered track cleaning equipment available. Plus, G is when you start to commonly see power systems that don't rely on track power, so depending on what you use you might not even need to worry about it.
@@VestedUTuber he's right- the weight needs to be down low. wheels are the best starting point- we had to shave some weight off the NMRA standards because we have guys who run long trains.
I Build and purchase nothing but highly detailed rolling stock and locomotives. I have hundreds of locomotives and rolling stock of this quality. I often take those models even a step further by adding and sometimes removing details to make them even more accurate to match a prototype. I spend countless hours doing this. People that generally complain about the price of models usually don't realize the amount of time it takes to build them. All of those details that have been added to a ready-to-run model have been hand assembled by someone. A machine is not doing that. It takes hours to assemble models. The more parts there are to a model the longer it is going to take to complete it. That is really where the cost increase comes into play. You are paying for parts and labor. Entry level equipment is inexpensive because most parts are molded on and the models is hand assembled in minutes.
Look at the size. Really. Look at the size and amount of plastic in a n scale boxcar. $20 bucks for a SINGLE 40' foot box car that is close to 3" long is absolutely inexcusable. Especially stuff from china on the production costs should easily have the cost much lower.
how much is atlas paying a china man to make this,didn't they go to china for cheap manufacturing cost compared to give a American work a little more to live the American dream?i mean they charge like it is made in America,but it is built cheaply in china,Nike is doing the same thing,running shoes 250 dollars cost to manufacture in Korea 25 dollars.i don't mind paying more in my country, as long as the work is done in my country, not an Asian 0r Central American one.
I have found Bachmann Silver Series rolling stock the best for me. They come in around $20.00 each and have a good quality build with lots of nice (middle of the road) detailing. Bachmann metal wheels and body mount couplers are a must for my layout.
Micro-Trains is the way to go as said before ,they just work. I don't have any Scaletrains cars but if they are like their locomotives then they will rival Micro-Trains.
yes, I love Micro-Trains. Most of my rolling stock is from them and Kato with some Athearn and the higher end Atlas cars. I only get Kato locomotives though.
I like Micro-Trains best. Even their older stuff is very nice and even today the cars are easily high to mid cost. They also always run nice (even with plastic wheels) and the couplers are super reliable. Atlas is also good, but some of the older Atlas is more crude that Micro-Trains.
Isaac Bos There’s a reason Micro-Trains was the “Cadillac” of N scale from the start. Thin profile stirrups and roofwalks (which were always color matched to the roof!), operating doors and hatches, accurate paint schemes and even the smallest lettering was legible.
As you can see everyone love micro-trains, they has the detail and run great, if I could say the price does make the difference, I've seen the prices climb over the years but I've seen much better cars coming too, you get what you pay for. This is also plays out in the locomotives too....thanks for sharing....Jack 👍
This video is just as relevant today as it was two years ago. Thank you for keeping this hobby accessable. Ps still drinking Nicaragua single roast coffee,
cause corps want bigger profits. the slave labor in china banladash or where ever is very cheap. heck by shipping in bulk in containers is cheap.if there container falls overboard they get the insurance money. so no loss to them. but some cars are very well detailed. but still not worth the money.
$30 plus is hard to put a long fleet of tank, hopper, box, etc cars together. To put a 30 car long train together is over $1,000! Funny too, is that the material it takes to make an N Scale Car vs an O Scale car and then they come in the same price range, duh? What it’s priced to buy Turnouts and make them operational vs manual is also very cost prohibitive. It’s an expensive hobby.
When I was a kid in the 1950's, Irv Athearn sold car kits for $2.50 and $3.50. F7 locomotive was $7.00. Is it any wonder that the hobby is dying? And Athearn was made in Gardena California, later Compton California.
Ever heard of inflation? $2.50 in 1959 dollars equals $22.33 in 2020 dollars. Also keep in mind that the Athearn cars, of the 1950's, were far less detailed than "top of the line" cars produced today. And, as you mentioned, were kits. Both the added details and being assembled, "Ready-to-Run", adds cost.
@THECOMMENTMASTER 7 Detail also has an effect on manufacturing costs. The more fine detail in a model, the more expensive it is to produce the injection molds for the plastic. They don't just magic these things into existence. For someone who calls themselves a "comment master", your comments have not been very impressive.
@THECOMMENTMASTER 7 "Oh sorry you are ok with spending hundreds of bucks on a single model that is the size of a tv remote." I'm sorry you don't understand the difference between explaining something and being OK with it. "Who's asking for finer detail?" You can blame the militant rivet counters who look down on anyone who runs anything that isn't 100% accurate inside and out for that. Unfortunately, they also happen to be the whales willing to pay whatever the manufacturer asks. That means $300 models the size of a larger banker's pen (Bachmann N-scale 4-8-2 Light Mountain, in case you're wondering - and that's still cheaper than buying direct). "I for one don't care if a diner car does not have a little plastic kitchen inside." Depending on the scale, I'd either expect but not be too concerned, or not care at all. If you want to bitch at someone about it, go yell at the manufacturers. All you're going to get here is either an echo chamber or an argument with one of the whales.
I've picked up most of my rolling stock by trolling flea markets, antiques emporiums, etc. can often find rolling stock in good shape for $5.00-$10.00 or thereabouts. (HO scale). Usually it's Tyco, Bachmann or Atlas brands. I'm not a 'detail fanatic' as long as it looks good, couples up OK and rolls good I'm happy. What I have found however is that 'collectible' road names may carry a bit of a premium..I just purchased a Life-Like brand HO scale caboose in Pennsylvania RR 'tuscan red' with the PRR keystone logo to go with my Mantua F7A/B combo locomotive in PRR livery. It was sitting right next to a comparable quality 'generic' caboose and was priced a couple of dollars more probably because of the PRR livery finish on it. I did have to add a bit of weight to it..easily accomplished by dropping some lead airgun pellets in through the window openings. Real model railroad fanatics probably would turn up their noses at 'flea market' finds but I refuse to pay $25.00 and up for what I find for a fraction of 'new' cost and I have just as much fun.
The Model Power car is not painted, that's the color of the plastic, which is why it has a sheen. The body mount couplers are better than truck mounted, so I'd rate the covered hopper higher than the coal hopper. Plus the load is quite toy like. Cars these days have incredible detail, but at the same time, they're becoming cost prohibitive.
Over the last two years, since I got back into model railroading, I've discovered that most of what you have said is true. I would not buy anything that looked as "Toy-Like" as that Model Power reefer box car. That shiny finish is awful, and the Bachmann finish is much better. You didn't mention that the lettering on the Bachmann is crisper. Apart from that, the only reason I wouldn't buy the Broadway Limited is that they are very expensive, even though they are sold as a set, which does, as you say, compensate a bit. Most of my stock is Atlas, with a couple of Trix items and a few Bachmann. I recently sold off a couple of Bachmann cars (a Caboose that had that shiny "Toy" finish and an F9 in Penn Central livery that didn't run very well - Have you noticed that bachmann F-units don't run that well?) I do have a couple of Bachmann Locos (not F-Units, U-Boats and GPs) that run as well as anything else, with the exception of my Kato/Atlas examples. Nice bit of info on the detailing, and a definate insight into the costs of manufacture there, Jimmy. Thanks.
IMO, the reason is too much cheap debt sloshing around. And too many people are willing to pay elevated prices for 'premium' models. Since 2008, most people in the West have had access to gigantic amounts of cheap, easy credit. And most are going hip deep into debt to finance whatever toys/hobby(s) they fancy...like model trains. So, the model manufacturers realize this and start edging up the prices (and the markups) for 'premium' items. And the masses are paying these elevated prices so long as they have the cheap credit to do so. But once this cheap debt bubble bursts? You watch? The prices of these high end models will fall hard. And that $240 engine you bought will then be going for $159.99...as a regular price (not a sale price). ☮
Hmmmm you should stick to your DIY Arduino and electronics.. watched your Arduino Automated Street Car circuit Liked it alot! You CAN buy those Kato/Tomytec street cars/trams stateside.. Any who... this video is a bit of a farse.. Your spread of cars to compare was ill-suited. It would have served you better to do a spread of Box Cars and make the distinction or Current Offerings or Historical Quality Improvement; because even Bachmann has had to up their game to compete. For as much as I love MTL cars, there are now cars on the market that have more detailed cars for about the same price. And you're sorely missing several REAL factors in cost of N Scale in particular.. A] The N Scale Market share... a little less than HO scale last time I read... B] The now fashionable releasing items in 'Runs" versus making something always available [and frankly as a buyer that doesn't seem to keeping the prices down]. The perfect example would be Rapido and the Turbo Train releases. Sure they had costs to recoup for design etc... however had they ran a larger amount of units on the release they could have recouped their cost AND brought the price down a little bit; but I'd be confident in thinking that as a small importer at the time of the first release, they only had so much capital to put toward the project, so it was a bit of a conundrum. If your going to put yourself out there as some sort of expert.. Know your game
Hi like your video's. question ? I just bought a set of NEW Kato 11 car California zephyr 106-1055 with display track 2006 release . in the foam inner holder But Missing outside box. they are selling for upwards of $350.00 . on Ebay. will the Missing outside box cause it to be les desirable or worth less? looks Unused. and I want to sell it cause I don't have Kato Couplers. what is it worth?
I know you like for your layout to focus more in the trains but could you do a video on n scale buildings? Like how you are demonstrating the differences between the manufacturers, could you do something similar to building sets? Is there cheaper building sets that can be improved on?
It's sad that I bought a Walthers autorack for 10 bucks back in 2010, now they want more then 80 bucks for them, and they can KEEP them too!! Model railroading has become a RICH mans hobby! All about the money now, too bad.
The level of detail has gone up though, coupler pull-levers, under body detail (why), road number specific detail, you dont need to be rich to model, just play the game smart & and wait for the prices to go down, unless its a engine thats only gonna go up in price, then...good luck? I will say how ever $10 for a rack then compared to the $80 now is a dream now, maybe $30-40, unless the $80 includes a sound decoder for the car, and a "Primed for Grime" look to kick-start the weathering. I would not mind a older SP, BN or TTX rack sounding a bit tired, plus the normal noises of the cars shifting inside, and maybe a hose breaking & the train going into emergency, all stuff I'd pay the $80 for if it was included.
@Bill Chisholm Only if the significant other disagrees with it...I got mine on board, & plans for a designated "railroad budget", we are still in the boyfriend-girlfriend stage, but have expressed other intentions to each other, and included trains into that.
Problem's two-fold: 1. Businesses have realized they can make more short-term profits selling fewer products to fewer people at a much higher pricepoint, as long as those fewer, richer people are willing to dump the cash for it. Selling more product for less is more sustainable since you'll always have sales, but it doesn't look shiny to shareholders or executives who only care about those short term quarterly profits. For them, running a business has been reduced to little more than making one number (income) bigger and the other (expenses) smaller at all costs. 2. There's still enough people to support companies that do this. An interesting thing to note is that the bigger you go in terms of scale, the less of a price increase you actually see. This is due in part to the fact that production runs for larger scales have always been generally smaller. Once you get to the big rideable "backyard" equipment, everything is either made to order, commissioned or scratchbuilt and has been for the entire existence of the hobby, so prices have been almost stagnant. Granted, some price increase is justifiable. When I first gave N-scale a try back in the early 2000s, it was nothing but trouble. Coming back into it now in 2021, and it's a night-and-day difference. My Bachmann 4-8-2 Light Mountain has sound quality almost on par with my G-scale LGB Henschel 0-6-0 HF110C, and the level of detail is amazing. And it runs well too. _BUT_ it feels like I paid $300 for a $225 model, simply due to the size of the model.
I shall never understand how this industry has things sorted out. How many 12 year olds pester dad to take them to the local Christmas train garden, where they get inspired by well done displays. They ask for a train set for Christmas. Dad buys a starter set, which runs like shite. The whole thing ends up in a jumble in a box at the back of the closet and the kid instead gets into collectable card games. Lost opportunity. Quit making crap for Pete's sake.
This may be a big deal in HO scale, but in N scale, super detailing gets “lost in the crowd”. N scale is viewed “from on high”, and long strings of cars look fine even if details are missing. The key point is that the car is in scale with correct proportions.
We've been having the same discussion in the UK over the last decade or so. But when you actually look at prices and average weekly salaries between the late 1970s and today, model railways have become slightly cheaper over this period as a percentage of the average weekly salary. In the same time the detail on the models have from just the basic details to having all the bells and whistles.
I bought mostly micro trains cars when I started to get back into the hobby. I didn't realize, until later, how good they are. I like atlas too. Other brands look good too, just haven't bought any yet.
Alot of freight cars ive seen at a hobby shop that was selling Tyco or others for cost far more then they worth . heck they use. Ebay as a gauge and go for the jacked up price.
Informative car previews. Atlas coal cars are not weighted properly. The BLI coal car is nicer because it doesn't reveal the weight and possibly better weighted for operations. BLI is famous for awesome detail. Metal wheels track better too.
I think that first car you showed, had weight added to it. A lot of us would go to our local tire shop and buy the sticky weights they use inside the rims to balance the wheels.
Licensing has something to do with it. UP sued Lionel over the use of their logo and won. Then there are the rivet counters demanding precision to the point where special tools need to be made. A reason I left the hobby. Cost and rivet counters sapping my modeling mojo. A model so delicate, it does not stand up to use. I loved the older Athearns. Quality.
If you need weights for inside the cars, go to any tire shop and ask to rumage through the USED stick weights and WE will be more then happy to give you as many as you want. Wash them at home in dishwasher soap and attach with ACC or hot glue.
I've been in nscale since 1984. The stuff now is much better. The lower end stuff reminds me of a lot of items available back then. I only buy stuff like that if it is pretty cheap. If it costs as much as the higher end cars to add new trucks and couplers it isn't worth it.
Get your moneys worth and switch to S scale . Near scale wheels and details . Not too large , just build a short line or switching layout , ! ! don't be a sucker ! !
Hi Jimmy, Just a quick suggestion when you are 3D designing. If you have a overhang add a 45 deg slang to the bottom if possible. This eliminates the need for supports. Example would be your roof support on the gas station model. I know this works 100% on a FDM printers not sure with a resin printer since I have never used one (do a small test run). Would you recommend going to resin printers? Thanks Rick
The main issue that I run into when I try to minimize supports on a resin 3D Print is warping during curing and layer shift as height increases. It's kind of the opposite of FDM printing. FDM supports keep the print layers from falling on the build plate. Resin supports keep prints from falling away from the build plate. It's A great example of this is that I am working out kinks on my Tire center prints. I figured out that printing them nearly vertical removes a lot of warping issues, but I have to put more supports to prevent layer shift at the end, otherwise I get this effect that looks like the model has been pinched slightly. I've actually got a video coming out talking about 3D printing for model railroading soon.
I started building my own rolling stock. The prices have gotten out of control. Less younger people are not getting into the hobby. In fact I really like making rolling stock in both n and ho scales.
@@JF-lt5zc resin printers are great for this stuff, personally I like making car bodies the traditional way (styrene/brass/wood etc) and then printing all my detail parts in resin, saves materials and makes the resin last longer... you just have to make sure you're getting one with a higher resolution, the cheap ones are cheap for a reason
I do buy new but i buy 2nd hand as well.in the past i had found familys that had a member pass away with a collection normaly not used so its still new.ill tell them what thay have but most times thay just want the stuff gone.so ill get nice stuff at a good price.i also buy what i am going to use.i normaly dont resell.some times ill trade.but there is no reason to buy new if u dont want or afford to.plenty of Quality stuff at good price out there.you just have to look for it.
That’s the way to do it! Keep raising the prices, less people with stop buying or buy very little and in time, we will see manufacturers going out of business because of poor sales. Hard business to be in because it’s a hobby for those with a little pocket money. GREED ! 👽
Because suckers will pay for them. All you have to do is wait for a lil while and you will be able to get them for half the price or less on eBay!!! Patience is a virtue!!!
I went to a train show in Allentown PA and seen a n scale covered hopper that was covered in graffiti. Outrageous price of $350.00 . It bad enough paying $100.00 for a DC powered locomotive. Model Railroading is not just a hobby any more . It is an investment.🚂🚃🚃🚃.
It’s not an investment, as explained to me by an investment professional, but speculation. Prices for “rare” cars have deflated in recent years, one result being that the National N scale meet is no longer called the NS Collectors Conventions. If you belong to a club or have friends in N scale, you know those prices are inflated and the same items can usually be obtained for way less money.
@@dankamikubo7002 Yes I know that, but my point being n scale maybe a scale not as popular as HO or O or even G scale which can be pricey. And since overseas manufacturing is cornering the market. Why do I have to pay more than even Z scale modelers do? Import tax maybe?
N is still the second most popular scale, because of its compact size, which makes indoor layouts a viable alternative, unlike O or G. Z scale by virtue of its minuscule size requires, imho, incredible dexterity given that everything in Z is tiny! Z is also more expensive than N by a long shot. As for import tax, I suppose it would depend on where you live.
Great tutorial on explaining the difference between low cost to higher cost. 👊🏻 Question: On some sites as I go into looking at locomotives or rolling stock I see 2 choices: Master & Trainman. What's the difference? Stay Safe & God Bless!!
It is now Feb 2024. My friend and myself both have large HO layouts and thing we say to ourselves all the time is how can the younger generation afford to come into the model railroading hobby anymore. All Engines and Railroad Cars are completely assembled now and are usually costing 40 dollars or more for the Cars, and Engines can cost anywhere from 200 dollars on up 500-600 dollars. The only kit Railroad cars now are by Accurail and those are around 20 dollars. Buying track is expensive now, scenery, and everything else. Even buying lumber, wire, and electronics has gone through the roof for anyone starting a layout now. Time have changed from when we built our layouts. It has turned into a very Rich mans hobby. I help out at a train hobby shop and hardly see any young kids come into the store. Thanks for the video. take care.
I go to train shows and look at the train cars a d purchase the ones I want. I recently went to one and purchased 2 cars to practice weathering them. The thing I like about the train shows is that you can find some great deals if you look for them.
Many years ago I bought an HO gauge Life Like Thrall door box car. It was $4 new(1974). After getting it I body mounted kadee couplers, put a pair of Central Valley sprung trucks ($4 in those days) and a coat of Testors dullcoat. This was about two months as money allowed. Many times I've taken Athearn cars and a thin wash of black paint or India ink. Simple things that make a car look and operate better. My great downfall was always Athearn handrails. Over time I've gotten better. Thx for the space
PS I drool every time I see Rapido equipment. I would even take my chances with a their first iteration of a UA Turbo. You know the ones Jason Sharon apologizes for. I'm planning to get a 40 foot single sheathed boxcar when I can. So far my only purchase has been one of their Chevrolet Caprice station wagons for my wife. I promised someday we'd have a brand new 9 pack station wagon. She loves it anyway. Not having a lot of resources to put into the hobby just makes one more creative. Thx again
Great video.....I do HO and I love Bachmann Silver Series rolling stock ....Even in HO the detail is quite good and the price is great .... I hate plastic wheelsets and as soon as I can I switch to metal ...
Could you theoretically drill a big enough hole, on the gray CSX Hopper or maybe on a cheaper model, on the end of the carthat a train rider could be hanging out of? If you want to see expensive trains check out an O Scale Lionel Ig Boy with a msrp of $2700.00 🤑
I have pretty much stoped buying model rr rolling stock etc, you just cannot convince me that a box car etc are worth such high prices $ 60 each and more, Aussie train stuff is just an horrendis price $450 for a three set of wagons etc.
I was looking at the HO McKinley Explorer . $ 389 cheapest. The other thing in Perth is that there's a lot ,most nil stock. I would prefer the Indian Pacific, but that seems to be at the higher end.
Jim: EXCELLENT video about 'basic' differences in freight car choices vs price. I currently own over 4,000 N-scale freight cars that range from- train show bought $2 ones to lately purchased $30+ per car 4/5 cars 'sets' (yes, and some of them ARE the basic Bachmann choices you covered!); Have been mainly an N-scaler for 35+ years now (starting to branch out some to also include HO scale of late), but you did a GREAT job of covering why- some freight cars cost more than others... without ONCE getting into why MicroTrains for DECADES now has been the 'standard' of N-scale rolling stock , (another term for freight cars), but has some NOW worthy (truly believe- MicroTrains forced others to equal) competitors- InterMountain, Atlas, etc. Think you need to do a video (related to a topic you raised more than once in this one)- proper weighting for 'better/smoother operation of N-Scale rolling stock' in general... which occurs WHEN N-scale (or ANY scale cars!) are properly weighted, according to NMRA ''recommended practices'. For example a 40' N-scale car 'ought' to weigh- .95 ounces... they sure 'run better' when cars are properly weighted, which in N-scale can be achieved by using easily obtained (like from a Bass Pro Shop retail outlet + Goo type glue and of course an electronic scale, easily obtainable at most 'smoke shops' for under $25, well worth the expense) small lead fishing weights, glued inside (non-detectable to outside view) each car- any hobbyist (even beginners) can easily do same..
Really interesting video! It's cool now to see why each car cost as much as they do, something that'll keep in mind in the future if I try to make my own...
A lot of folks are forgetting Exactrail. They were really one of the first "high - end" rolling stock makers. They are also still very much in business though they went direct bypassing dealers a number of years ago. All of my Exactrail cars are superior in quality and detail to anything I have that Microtrains made. They all come with their blackened metal wheels.
I can't remember the last time I bought "new". Everything in the collection is pretty much 2nd hand. Accurail, proto, bluebox all do fine by me. A little paint, metal wheels, and couplers make them look just fine. I just refuse to buy into the overinflation of the hobby.
I hear you my RR may as well be called the e-bayrr. I've been into 36' cars for a while now. So I'm limited to roundhouse some times I'll get a blue box 40' but no too often anymore.
if youre buying couplers youre already buying into it.
My first 2 engines were bought new at a hobby store back in ‘82. And they were my last. I have over 350 now. All used and proud of it. 👍 Toots!
Same, I buy only a few, the rest? 2nd hand. I buy new steam locomotives as I can find. I look forward to buy 1 or 2 locomotives, maybe and some accessories. After that? I should begin my layout. Hopefully this year
@@CSX_2057I only buy new locos all my rolling stock is eBay or train show pick ups
I’ve been snagging second hand rolling stock at my local hobby shot for $3 a shot ( condition as is) to practice painting on and I’m seeing a difference between companies and quality as I take the shells off to prime and start painting,
I never thought twice on the differences until this video!
The Atlas car has MTL trucks and couplers installed, not the original Atlas trucks and couplers. Also, I wouldn't call the 90ton hopper from the trainman line as a higher end car, as even Atlas has said that the trainman line is their low end line.
add metal wheels and weigh to the nmrs weight standards. you will be suprised how well your cars will run.
Bachman makes some very high end cars in in OO scale that cost anything between $60 and $100.
The Bachman Silver car seems higher quality than the Atlas cart you showed.
There are a few more steps up beyond BLI,,Micro Trains couplers are great but their rolling stock has been surpassed by many manufacturers now. Atlas,Athearn (although not all of their stuff is created equal)Exact Rail and others have really up the competition
Your right Dave , but it can get to a point 50 to 60 dollars for one N scale car. The alternative 3 at 20$ or 2 at 30$ . We have to be smart with money for rolling stock.
@@adriengadson3544 best bet for real modelers who can paint is MT undecs.
I like to by roiling stock that I put to gather as a kit some cars have a lot of parts to put on and they were so much cheaper to by $ 4.00 to $ 9.00 , felt that was part of being engender of my trains.
How about those new Roka auto racks ?
A buddy at work sold me a box of old ho rolling stock for $35.00. SOLD AMERICAN ! Turned my layout into a marshiling yard ! 😅
As far as I'm concerned micro trains is always been top of the line 99 % of what I have is micro trains. The other 1 % is ATLAS
I'd love to get into this hobby, but why are locomotives so flipping expensive. I mean $300+ usd for a Steam era loco.
The Atlas 90T hopper is NOT a good comparison. That specific model uses tooling from the 70s, it's a great filler car, I have dozens bought cheaply and repainted. You really should find some of the Atlas former BLMA cars for comparison.
Yea It really threw my opinion of the video off a bit.. It's one of those cars that the cost keeps going up and up and there is no improvements on at all.
Bachmann cars are the easiest, so far, at making conversion cars for difficult couplers
Learn the difference between a reefer and a boxcar.
It's not important for pricing reasons. Models of reefers and boxcars are almost entirely structurally identical, with the major differences being solely in detailing.
If a company is selling ice-cooled reefers for significantly more than comparably sized and detailed boxcars, then that company is gouging the price of their reefers.
Its a hobbie that all it is. Plastic is plastic and when it all come out,, it still just a toy you play with. Ive been modeling for 44 years and the young people cant get into it because of price. In all my years i have never seen a train car worth 100$.
I started model railroading in the 1970's when I was a mere 7 years old. I insisted on N scale. My dad thought I was crazy because N scale is so small, but when you are 7 years old it's not small at all. Tiny hands, sharp vision. It was perfect. When I got older I understood his reluctance. lol But anyway, I have Kadee (now Micro-Trains) freight cars from the 1970s that are still the industry standard. Metal under-bodies instead of separate weights. Crisp details. Separate foot stirrups, break wheels and running boards made from nylon instead of styrene. Sliding doors. Drop ends on gondolas. Not to mention their couplers. It took decades for other manufactures to come even close to Micro-Trains detail and value. Why they are not represented in your video is perplexing. Also, BLA and Scale-Trains have produced some exceptional covered hoppers with ridiculous detail. Those brands should have been your high tier.
The six Micro-Trains cars I recently bought (a four-car pack of tank cars and two 50' box cars, all Southern Pacific) probably cost more than the TEN Atlas and Bachmann Silver cars I have. But it was worth it. They look good and they run very well right out of the box. And they have some heft - unlike the other cars on my roster they can be pushed over a Kato #4 turnout consistently without derailing, and I think a lot of that has to do with their weight. All my Atlas and Bachmann cars have been upgraded with MTL trucks, btw.
Hi, Jimmy This is the first of your videos I have watched. I will be looking for more soon! I have read most of the comments below.
There really is a lot of different views on this issue. I know I have many, but we all enjoy this hobby. I would like to share with you and others something I have learned over the years. I bought my First locomotive when I was just 16 y/o, a Milwaukee road SD9 which I still have today! I'm now 65 and proudly show it to my grand kids! I said all that just as a background so you know I have done this for a long time. My layout when I was young I could never seem to get it right. I would spend hours and hours with
tiny details. Then when people came to see my Trains the remarks were '' how cute '' little trains. -------------- WHAT????
I could not believe my ears NO one noticed the DETAILS..... Hours I spent, I thought wasted?
That's when I knew why there are many levels, just as you showed in this video. I used all those levels. The cheap ones never run on the main line. They just sit along buildings and yards as props. The better ones are used in service. Most of my rolling stock is now passenger coaches pulled by E's and F's which is my favorite Trains. And of course the Geeps for freight.
Because that's what I grew up with in the 60's and 70's So I have learned you CAN use all these things to build the best layout
you can. So enjoy it all, whatever you chose to use! After all it IS your layout, you are the boss!!!!
You get what you pay for, microtrains are the only ones that never give problems out the box. I found I spend more on cheaper cars fixing them, then just buying a microtrains car.
Plus microtrains are the only American made nscale cars.
I am just as happy running old Tyco or life-like rolling stock as i ma with the higher end Rolling stock and even buying in lots on ebay go ahead and make fun of me if you want
but thst will not change my mind
because of what someone keeps saying Its my Rail Road
I started Nscaling in the 90's & was taken back by the sticker shock. At first I was buying less expensive models to jump start my collection to learn later that I should have waited to buy higher end cars. I've been collecting passenger cars & locomotives & will now buy only Kato brand models. I've kept receipts & price stickers on each box & see how inflation is in force. My collection is part of my estate & will be given to someone I know whom will appreciate what this is with hopes that it will not be sold. My family knows my passion for this but to them, these are just little cars in boxes that are taking up space. It takes time to appreciate the intricate & painstaking details in workmanship & what to look for in this hobby. It's not for kids, just for the big boys with matching budgets.
I promise not to sell your stuff. Haha. Seriously, I know my wife will have 1-800-GOT JUNK in the driveway before I'm even in the ground. None of my kids are interested in my odd hobbies....Hot Wheels, GI Joes, Action Figures, and the model train thing.
All of my N scale locomotives are Kato brand which are 3 Amtrak P42 Genesis, a Santa Fe SDP40F & the Lima 4-8-4 GS-4 number 4449 in Southern Pacific Daylight colors which pulls my 10 car Morning Daylight train which is Kato & is my excursion train, I have a Kato N scale Superliner train that is 11 cars & a baggage car which is the Amtrak Coast Starlight. I have 24 freight cars that are Kato, Micro Trains, Atlas, and a Santa Fe caboose which is Bachmann & an Athearn Southern Pacific bay window caboose. I will in the future buy a Southern Pacific freight locomotive as my N scale model railroad is he Pacific West Coast & it will focus on the West Coast during the last quarter of the 20th.Century from 1974 to 1999.
@@rhikdavis is she gonna boogie when its all gone? just kidding
@@tommurphy4307 I would not be surprised.
I'm surprised you didn't do a Micro-Trains car for a high end sample.
Micro Trains are towards the higher end. Sometimes Micro Trains nails a car and sometimes they are off, in my experience.
I bought a few used cars off eBay with greatly reduced prices with good results so far
Excellent sources! With some creativity and a very little money, even a TYCO Car can be made acceptable. Especially with Weathering!
@@CarminesRCTipsandTricks if you are referring to mantua for tyco- they had pretty decent detailing.
My cars are almost 100% Micro-Trains Line (MTL). The detail is exceptional and they are very reliable. They also hold their value.
Edit/Add: I also have a number of KATO passenger cars. Not only is the exterior well detailed but so is the interior. It is also easy to install the KATO interior lighting kits in them if they did not come with it already installed.
Yes sir..!!! You are absolutely right. I also have many Micro-Trains cars... some pressurized covered hoppers are among the best.... super detailed, including metallic runways at the top and discharge pipes at the bottom.
Now.... I'm a fan of passsenger cars.... Someone else arround there also think KATO is one of the best brands in the market for passenger cars? My Kato colection includes American models (my favorite is the California Zephyr) but I also have some (well, several) Japanese Shinkansen, and they are amazing.....
Athearn, Microtrains, & Exactrail are excellent choices for high end N scale as well.
Also Kato
And scale trains, red caboose, blma? I wouldnt put MTL up there, ask way too much for plastic wheels and not body mounted couplers with under par detail.
Thanks for posting! I feel that price and people's uncertainty about it has become an issue in recent years, its important to talk about it.
MTL has been hands down the most consistent manufacturer I've bought from. Everything works great out of the box and I never have to worry about buying from them. Love the channel, man. Keep up the good work!
Two things...
1) You mentioned several times, the weight used in the cars, while evaluating it's merit, to a degree. But you never compared each of those weights to the NMRA standard. I think the weight which is closest to the standard should "earn points" in your overall presentation.
2) I'll simply echo what so many other commenters have written, about how Micro Trains and Exact Rail are higher quality than the five you showed. That you didn't include them in this video leaves us to wonder if have any in your collection? :)
And metal wheelsets. Plastic is a non-starter.
@@JF-lt5zc
Don't say that around G-scalers.
Seriously, though, the larger the scale, the less important metal wheelsets are up until you get into the larger rideable "backyard" scales (where metal becomes necessary due to the weight). This may sound counter-intuitive, but with G-scale and similar sized equipment, plastic parts can be made beefy enough that there's not much of an issue with them. Most older LGB equipment runs plastic wheelsets without issue.
@@VestedUTuber I would think that no matter the scale that they would still be prone to leaving plastic deposits on the rails?
@@JF-lt5zc
They can, but with G-scale it's far less of an issue. The size of the rails means there's a lot more contact surface for electrical contact, and there's specialized powered track cleaning equipment available. Plus, G is when you start to commonly see power systems that don't rely on track power, so depending on what you use you might not even need to worry about it.
@@VestedUTuber he's right- the weight needs to be down low. wheels are the best starting point- we had to shave some weight off the NMRA standards because we have guys who run long trains.
I Build and purchase nothing but highly detailed rolling stock and locomotives. I have hundreds of locomotives and rolling stock of this quality. I often take those models even a step further by adding and sometimes removing details to make them even more accurate to match a prototype. I spend countless hours doing this. People that generally complain about the price of models usually don't realize the amount of time it takes to build them. All of those details that have been added to a ready-to-run model have been hand assembled by someone. A machine is not doing that. It takes hours to assemble models. The more parts there are to a model the longer it is going to take to complete it. That is really where the cost increase comes into play. You are paying for parts and labor. Entry level equipment is inexpensive because most parts are molded on and the models is hand assembled in minutes.
Look at the size. Really. Look at the size and amount of plastic in a n scale boxcar. $20 bucks for a SINGLE 40' foot box car that is close to 3" long is absolutely inexcusable. Especially stuff from china on the production costs should easily have the cost much lower.
how much is atlas paying a china man to make this,didn't they go to china for cheap manufacturing cost compared to give a American work a little more to live the American dream?i mean they charge like it is made in America,but it is built cheaply in china,Nike is doing the same thing,running shoes 250 dollars cost to manufacture in Korea 25 dollars.i don't mind paying more in my country, as long as the work is done in my country, not an Asian 0r Central American one.
I have found Bachmann Silver Series rolling stock the best for me. They come in around $20.00 each and have a good quality build with lots of nice (middle of the road) detailing. Bachmann metal wheels and body mount couplers are a must for my layout.
i do body-mounts when i can, as well, but the bachmann N wheels are lacking- i use fox valley wheels- heavier and much better appearance.
I love my Accurail cars in HO scale. Decent details, low cost, and a fun project putting it together
Micro-Trains is the way to go as said before ,they just work. I don't have any Scaletrains cars but if they are like their locomotives then they will rival Micro-Trains.
yes, I love Micro-Trains. Most of my rolling stock is from them and Kato with some Athearn and the higher end Atlas cars. I only get Kato locomotives though.
@THECOMMENTMASTER 7
If you're going to make a claim like that, at least put the effort in to explain it.
my club guys like their undecorated cars- so do I.
I like Micro-Trains best. Even their older stuff is very nice and even today the cars are easily high to mid cost. They also always run nice (even with plastic wheels) and the couplers are super reliable. Atlas is also good, but some of the older Atlas is more crude that Micro-Trains.
Isaac Bos There’s a reason Micro-Trains was the “Cadillac” of N scale from the start. Thin profile stirrups and roofwalks (which were always color matched to the roof!), operating doors and hatches, accurate paint schemes and even the smallest lettering was legible.
When the Atlas 90t hopper doesnt even have the original trucks or couplers... 🤣
As you can see everyone love micro-trains, they has the detail and run great, if I could say the price does make the difference, I've seen the prices climb over the years but I've seen much better cars coming too, you get what you pay for. This is also plays out in the locomotives too....thanks for sharing....Jack 👍
I but I don't have the extra money to spend on tons of rolling stock.
@@williamrathwell766I hear you, being retired and there is not all the money to spend money like that too...
I like middleground models "in between being a toy and a model"
Are we not gonna mention the prices of autoracks? lol
We don’t speak of those. 😂😅😬
Yes hi I personally would choose atlas every time good car from and I like the style.
This video is just as relevant today as it was two years ago. Thank you for keeping this hobby accessable. Ps still drinking Nicaragua single roast coffee,
cause corps want bigger profits.
the slave labor in china banladash or where ever is very cheap. heck by shipping in bulk in containers is cheap.if there container falls overboard they get the insurance money. so no loss to them.
but some cars are very well detailed. but still not worth the money.
$30 plus is hard to put a long fleet of tank, hopper, box, etc cars together. To put a 30 car long train together is over $1,000!
Funny too, is that the material it takes to make an N Scale Car vs an O Scale car and then they come in the same price range, duh?
What it’s priced to buy Turnouts and make them operational vs manual is also very cost prohibitive.
It’s an expensive hobby.
When I was a kid in the 1950's, Irv Athearn sold car kits for $2.50 and $3.50. F7 locomotive was $7.00. Is it any wonder that the hobby is dying? And Athearn was made in Gardena California, later Compton California.
Ever heard of inflation? $2.50 in 1959 dollars equals $22.33 in 2020 dollars. Also keep in mind that the Athearn cars, of the 1950's, were far less detailed than "top of the line" cars produced today. And, as you mentioned, were kits. Both the added details and being assembled, "Ready-to-Run", adds cost.
Its not 1950s anymore sir.
@THECOMMENTMASTER 7
Detail also has an effect on manufacturing costs. The more fine detail in a model, the more expensive it is to produce the injection molds for the plastic. They don't just magic these things into existence.
For someone who calls themselves a "comment master", your comments have not been very impressive.
@THECOMMENTMASTER 7
"Oh sorry you are ok with spending hundreds of bucks on a single model that is the size of a tv remote."
I'm sorry you don't understand the difference between explaining something and being OK with it.
"Who's asking for finer detail?"
You can blame the militant rivet counters who look down on anyone who runs anything that isn't 100% accurate inside and out for that. Unfortunately, they also happen to be the whales willing to pay whatever the manufacturer asks. That means $300 models the size of a larger banker's pen (Bachmann N-scale 4-8-2 Light Mountain, in case you're wondering - and that's still cheaper than buying direct).
"I for one don't care if a diner car does not have a little plastic kitchen inside."
Depending on the scale, I'd either expect but not be too concerned, or not care at all. If you want to bitch at someone about it, go yell at the manufacturers. All you're going to get here is either an echo chamber or an argument with one of the whales.
You should have a sold color table because you camera wants to focus on the paint spills and marks on the background.
I've picked up most of my rolling stock by trolling flea markets, antiques emporiums, etc. can often find rolling stock in good shape for $5.00-$10.00 or thereabouts. (HO scale). Usually it's Tyco, Bachmann or Atlas brands. I'm not a 'detail fanatic' as long as it looks good, couples up OK and rolls good I'm happy. What I have found however is that 'collectible' road names may carry a bit of a premium..I just purchased a Life-Like brand HO scale caboose in Pennsylvania RR 'tuscan red' with the PRR keystone logo to go with my Mantua F7A/B combo locomotive in PRR livery. It was sitting right next to a comparable quality 'generic' caboose and was priced a couple of dollars more probably because of the PRR livery finish on it. I did have to add a bit of weight to it..easily accomplished by dropping some lead airgun pellets in through the window openings. Real model railroad fanatics probably would turn up their noses at 'flea market' finds but I refuse to pay $25.00 and up for what I find for a fraction of 'new' cost and I have just as much fun.
The Model Power car is not painted, that's the color of the plastic, which is why it has a sheen. The body mount couplers are better than truck mounted, so I'd rate the covered hopper higher than the coal hopper. Plus the load is quite toy like.
Cars these days have incredible detail, but at the same time, they're becoming cost prohibitive.
Over the last two years, since I got back into model railroading, I've discovered that most of what you have said is true. I would not buy anything that looked as "Toy-Like" as that Model Power reefer box car. That shiny finish is awful, and the Bachmann finish is much better. You didn't mention that the lettering on the Bachmann is crisper. Apart from that, the only reason I wouldn't buy the Broadway Limited is that they are very expensive, even though they are sold as a set, which does, as you say, compensate a bit. Most of my stock is Atlas, with a couple of Trix items and a few Bachmann. I recently sold off a couple of Bachmann cars (a Caboose that had that shiny "Toy" finish and an F9 in Penn Central livery that didn't run very well - Have you noticed that bachmann F-units don't run that well?) I do have a couple of Bachmann Locos (not F-Units, U-Boats and GPs) that run as well as anything else, with the exception of my Kato/Atlas examples.
Nice bit of info on the detailing, and a definate insight into the costs of manufacture there, Jimmy. Thanks.
IMO, the reason is too much cheap debt sloshing around.
And too many people are willing to pay elevated prices for 'premium' models.
Since 2008, most people in the West have had access to gigantic amounts of cheap, easy credit.
And most are going hip deep into debt to finance whatever toys/hobby(s) they fancy...like model trains.
So, the model manufacturers realize this and start edging up the prices (and the markups) for 'premium' items.
And the masses are paying these elevated prices so long as they have the cheap credit to do so.
But once this cheap debt bubble bursts?
You watch?
The prices of these high end models will fall hard.
And that $240 engine you bought will then be going for $159.99...as a regular price (not a sale price).
☮
Hmmmm you should stick to your DIY Arduino and electronics.. watched your Arduino Automated Street Car circuit Liked it alot! You CAN buy those Kato/Tomytec street cars/trams stateside.. Any who... this video is a bit of a farse.. Your spread of cars to compare was ill-suited. It would have served you better to do a spread of Box Cars and make the distinction or Current Offerings or Historical Quality Improvement; because even Bachmann has had to up their game to compete. For as much as I love MTL cars, there are now cars on the market that have more detailed cars for about the same price. And you're sorely missing several REAL factors in cost of N Scale in particular.. A] The N Scale Market share... a little less than HO scale last time I read... B] The now fashionable releasing items in 'Runs" versus making something always available [and frankly as a buyer that doesn't seem to keeping the prices down]. The perfect example would be Rapido and the Turbo Train releases. Sure they had costs to recoup for design etc... however had they ran a larger amount of units on the release they could have recouped their cost AND brought the price down a little bit; but I'd be confident in thinking that as a small importer at the time of the first release, they only had so much capital to put toward the project, so it was a bit of a conundrum. If your going to put yourself out there as some sort of expert.. Know your game
Hi like your video's.
question ? I just bought a set of NEW Kato 11 car California zephyr 106-1055 with display track 2006 release . in the foam inner holder But Missing outside box. they are selling for upwards of $350.00 . on Ebay. will the Missing outside box cause it to be les desirable or worth less? looks Unused. and I want to sell it cause I don't have Kato Couplers. what is it worth?
I know you like for your layout to focus more in the trains but could you do a video on n scale buildings? Like how you are demonstrating the differences between the manufacturers, could you do something similar to building sets? Is there cheaper building sets that can be improved on?
It's sad that I bought a Walthers autorack for 10 bucks back in 2010, now they want more then 80 bucks for them, and they can KEEP them too!! Model railroading has become a RICH mans hobby! All about the money now, too bad.
The level of detail has gone up though, coupler pull-levers, under body detail (why), road number specific detail, you dont need to be rich to model, just play the game smart & and wait for the prices to go down, unless its a engine thats only gonna go up in price, then...good luck? I will say how ever $10 for a rack then compared to the $80 now is a dream now, maybe $30-40, unless the $80 includes a sound decoder for the car, and a "Primed for Grime" look to kick-start the weathering. I would not mind a older SP, BN or TTX rack sounding a bit tired, plus the normal noises of the cars shifting inside, and maybe a hose breaking & the train going into emergency, all stuff I'd pay the $80 for if it was included.
@Bill Chisholm Only if the significant other disagrees with it...I got mine on board, & plans for a designated "railroad budget", we are still in the boyfriend-girlfriend stage, but have expressed other intentions to each other, and included trains into that.
Problem's two-fold:
1. Businesses have realized they can make more short-term profits selling fewer products to fewer people at a much higher pricepoint, as long as those fewer, richer people are willing to dump the cash for it. Selling more product for less is more sustainable since you'll always have sales, but it doesn't look shiny to shareholders or executives who only care about those short term quarterly profits. For them, running a business has been reduced to little more than making one number (income) bigger and the other (expenses) smaller at all costs.
2. There's still enough people to support companies that do this.
An interesting thing to note is that the bigger you go in terms of scale, the less of a price increase you actually see. This is due in part to the fact that production runs for larger scales have always been generally smaller. Once you get to the big rideable "backyard" equipment, everything is either made to order, commissioned or scratchbuilt and has been for the entire existence of the hobby, so prices have been almost stagnant.
Granted, some price increase is justifiable. When I first gave N-scale a try back in the early 2000s, it was nothing but trouble. Coming back into it now in 2021, and it's a night-and-day difference. My Bachmann 4-8-2 Light Mountain has sound quality almost on par with my G-scale LGB Henschel 0-6-0 HF110C, and the level of detail is amazing. And it runs well too. _BUT_ it feels like I paid $300 for a $225 model, simply due to the size of the model.
I shall never understand how this industry has things sorted out. How many 12 year olds pester dad to take them to the local Christmas train garden, where they get inspired by well done displays. They ask for a train set for Christmas. Dad buys a starter set, which runs like shite. The whole thing ends up in a jumble in a box at the back of the closet and the kid instead gets into collectable card games. Lost opportunity. Quit making crap for Pete's sake.
This may be a big deal in HO scale, but in N scale, super detailing gets “lost in the crowd”. N scale is viewed “from on high”, and long strings of cars look fine even if details are missing. The key point is that the car is in scale with correct proportions.
We've been having the same discussion in the UK over the last decade or so. But when you actually look at prices and average weekly salaries between the late 1970s and today, model railways have become slightly cheaper over this period as a percentage of the average weekly salary. In the same time the detail on the models have from just the basic details to having all the bells and whistles.
I bought mostly micro trains cars when I started to get back into the hobby. I didn't realize, until later, how good they are. I like atlas too. Other brands look good too, just haven't bought any yet.
Thanks for you informative video on N scale rolling stock. I usually purchase only Atlas or Kato. I will start looking at Broadway Limited.
Alot of freight cars ive seen at a hobby shop that was selling Tyco or others for cost far more then they worth . heck they use. Ebay as a gauge and go for the jacked up price.
Informative car previews. Atlas coal cars are not weighted properly. The BLI coal car is nicer because it doesn't reveal the weight and possibly better weighted for operations. BLI is famous for awesome detail. Metal wheels track better too.
I think that first car you showed, had weight added to it. A lot of us would go to our local tire shop and buy the sticky weights they use inside the rims to balance the wheels.
Licensing has something to do with it. UP sued Lionel over the use of their logo and won. Then there are the rivet counters demanding precision to the point where special tools need to be made. A reason I left the hobby. Cost and rivet counters sapping my modeling mojo. A model so delicate, it does not stand up to use. I loved the older Athearns. Quality.
Don't forget the licensing contracts that the railroads squeeze on the manufacturers which is simply unbelievable greed. That jumps it up to.
Down here in Australia, everything is overpriced, even old second hand. It's all a classic, collectable, rare, or don't make them like this any more.
If you need weights for inside the cars, go to any tire shop and ask to rumage through the USED stick weights and WE will be more then happy to give you as many as you want. Wash them at home in dishwasher soap and attach with ACC or hot glue.
I've been in nscale since 1984. The stuff now is much better. The lower end stuff reminds me of a lot of items available back then. I only buy stuff like that if it is pretty cheap. If it costs as much as the higher end cars to add new trucks and couplers it isn't worth it.
on n scale - british, have you any experience of peco and graham farish please or lima from italy, love to know what you think of them.
Get your moneys worth and switch to S scale . Near scale wheels and details . Not too large , just build a short line or switching layout , ! ! don't be a sucker ! !
Hi Jimmy, Just a quick suggestion when you are 3D designing. If you have a overhang add a 45 deg slang to the bottom if possible. This eliminates the need for supports. Example would be your roof support on the gas station model. I know this works 100% on a FDM printers not sure with a resin printer since I have never used one (do a small test run). Would you recommend going to resin printers? Thanks Rick
The main issue that I run into when I try to minimize supports on a resin 3D Print is warping during curing and layer shift as height increases. It's kind of the opposite of FDM printing. FDM supports keep the print layers from falling on the build plate. Resin supports keep prints from falling away from the build plate. It's A great example of this is that I am working out kinks on my Tire center prints. I figured out that printing them nearly vertical removes a lot of warping issues, but I have to put more supports to prevent layer shift at the end, otherwise I get this effect that looks like the model has been pinched slightly. I've actually got a video coming out talking about 3D printing for model railroading soon.
I started building my own rolling stock. The prices have gotten out of control. Less younger people are not getting into the hobby. In fact I really like making rolling stock in both n and ho scales.
Now that 3d printing has become so cheap, you can make all the detail parts you want and its a lot easier and cost effective to build rather than buy
@@jamesm6638 I've tried a few times for HO stuff. The fidelity just isn't there with FDM printers. Maybe a higher end laser printer would be better?
@@JF-lt5zc resin printers are great for this stuff, personally I like making car bodies the traditional way (styrene/brass/wood etc) and then printing all my detail parts in resin, saves materials and makes the resin last longer... you just have to make sure you're getting one with a higher resolution, the cheap ones are cheap for a reason
@@jamesm6638 so day I may get a 3D printer.
@@jamesm6638 thanks for your info
I do buy new but i buy 2nd hand as well.in the past i had found familys that had a member pass away with a collection normaly not used so its still new.ill tell them what thay have but most times thay just want the stuff gone.so ill get nice stuff at a good price.i also buy what i am going to use.i normaly dont resell.some times ill trade.but there is no reason to buy new if u dont want or afford to.plenty of Quality stuff at good price out there.you just have to look for it.
That’s the way to do it! Keep raising the prices, less people with stop buying or buy very little and in time, we will see manufacturers going out of business because of poor sales. Hard business to be in because it’s a hobby for those with a little pocket money. GREED ! 👽
Because suckers will pay for them. All you have to do is wait for a lil while and you will be able to get them for half the price or less on eBay!!! Patience is a virtue!!!
Buying model railroad stuff in Canada is expensive. You have to shop around and most times,I buy used stuff.
Trying to find n scale rolling stock was harder than I thought it would be. I see something I like and then notice it is HO scale.
I went to a train show in Allentown PA and seen a n scale covered hopper that was covered in graffiti. Outrageous price of $350.00 . It bad enough paying $100.00 for a DC powered locomotive. Model Railroading is not just a hobby any more . It is an investment.🚂🚃🚃🚃.
It’s not an investment, as explained to me by an investment professional, but speculation. Prices for “rare” cars have deflated in recent years, one result being that the National N scale meet is no longer called the NS Collectors Conventions. If you belong to a club or have friends in N scale, you know those prices are inflated and the same items can usually be obtained for way less money.
@@dankamikubo7002 Yes I know that, but my point being n scale maybe a scale not as popular as HO or O or even G scale which can be pricey. And since overseas manufacturing is cornering the market. Why do I have to pay more than even Z scale modelers do? Import tax maybe?
N is still the second most popular scale, because of its compact size, which makes indoor layouts a viable alternative, unlike O or G. Z scale by virtue of its minuscule size requires, imho, incredible dexterity given that everything in Z is tiny! Z is also more expensive than N by a long shot. As for import tax, I suppose it would depend on where you live.
Funny how the thumb nail title changes when you watch the video. Not an accident. Deliberate, and dishonest.
Great tutorial on explaining the difference between low cost to higher cost. 👊🏻 Question: On some sites as I go into looking at locomotives or rolling stock I see 2 choices: Master & Trainman. What's the difference? Stay Safe & God Bless!!
It is now Feb 2024. My friend and myself both have large HO layouts and thing we say to ourselves all the time is how can the younger generation afford to come into the model railroading hobby anymore. All Engines and Railroad Cars are completely assembled now and are usually costing 40 dollars or more for the Cars, and Engines can cost anywhere from 200 dollars on up 500-600 dollars. The only kit Railroad cars now are by Accurail and those are around 20 dollars. Buying track is expensive now, scenery, and everything else. Even buying lumber, wire, and electronics has gone through the roof for anyone starting a layout now.
Time have changed from when we built our layouts.
It has turned into a very Rich mans hobby. I help out at a train hobby shop and hardly see any young kids come into the store.
Thanks for the video. take care.
Its seems every hobby has become a rich man's enjoyment, just more are getting out of people's price ranges.
I go to train shows and look at the train cars a d purchase the ones I want. I recently went to one and purchased 2 cars to practice weathering them. The thing I like about the train shows is that you can find some great deals if you look for them.
train shows are harder to find in warmer climates- especially fine-scale stuff that is fragile in the heat of the sun.
Many years ago I bought an HO gauge Life Like Thrall door box car. It was $4 new(1974). After getting it I body mounted kadee couplers, put a pair of Central Valley sprung trucks ($4 in those days) and a coat of Testors dullcoat. This was about two months as money allowed. Many times I've taken Athearn cars and a thin wash of black paint or India ink.
Simple things that make a car look and operate better. My great downfall was always Athearn handrails. Over time I've gotten better.
Thx for the space
PS I drool every time I see Rapido equipment. I would even take my chances with a their first iteration of a UA Turbo. You know the ones Jason Sharon apologizes for. I'm planning to get a 40 foot single sheathed boxcar when I can. So far my only purchase has been one of their Chevrolet Caprice station wagons for my wife. I promised someday we'd have a brand new 9 pack station wagon. She loves it anyway.
Not having a lot of resources to put into the hobby just makes one more creative.
Thx again
Micro-Trains, BLI, Kato, Bachman SPECTRUM - I'm willing to wait until I can afford the "Good Stuff" rather than buy lots of mediocre rolling stock.
I don't know too much, but my Micro Trains cars look really good.
I wish my high end cars were $25. That's the price of the cheap stuff in O gauge.
Good comparison, but disappointed that Micro-Trains weren’t in the list.
I use 1/4x20 nuts as weights on 50 ft cars 3 work perfectly
Great video.....I do HO and I love Bachmann Silver Series rolling stock ....Even in HO the detail is quite good and the price is great .... I hate plastic wheelsets and as soon as I can I switch to metal ...
Could you theoretically drill a big enough hole, on the gray CSX Hopper or maybe on a cheaper model, on the end of the carthat a train rider could be hanging out of? If you want to see expensive trains check out an O Scale Lionel Ig Boy with a msrp of $2700.00 🤑
or look at some fine-scale brass stuff- the prices on the bigger steam units can be mind-boggling.
I have pretty much stoped buying model rr rolling stock etc, you just cannot convince me that a box car etc are worth such high prices $ 60 each and more, Aussie train stuff is just an horrendis price $450 for a three set of wagons etc.
I was looking at the HO McKinley Explorer . $ 389 cheapest.
The other thing in Perth is that there's a lot ,most nil stock.
I would prefer the Indian Pacific, but that seems to be at the higher end.
These high prices are going to keep NEW modelers from getting into the hobby.
The fleet is mostly composed of older cars ( especially ore cars) with repaint and details
Jim: EXCELLENT video about 'basic' differences in freight car choices vs price. I currently own over 4,000 N-scale freight cars that range from- train show bought $2 ones to lately purchased $30+ per car 4/5 cars 'sets' (yes, and some of them ARE the basic Bachmann choices you covered!); Have been mainly an N-scaler for 35+ years now (starting to branch out some to also include HO scale of late), but you did a GREAT job of covering why- some freight cars cost more than others... without ONCE getting into why MicroTrains for DECADES now has been the 'standard' of N-scale rolling stock , (another term for freight cars), but has some NOW worthy (truly believe- MicroTrains forced others to equal) competitors- InterMountain, Atlas, etc.
Think you need to do a video (related to a topic you raised more than once in this one)- proper weighting for 'better/smoother operation of N-Scale rolling stock' in general... which occurs WHEN N-scale (or ANY scale cars!) are properly weighted, according to NMRA ''recommended practices'. For example a 40' N-scale car 'ought' to weigh- .95 ounces... they sure 'run better' when cars are properly weighted, which in N-scale can be achieved by using easily obtained (like from a Bass Pro Shop retail outlet + Goo type glue and of course an electronic scale, easily obtainable at most 'smoke shops' for under $25, well worth the expense) small lead fishing weights, glued inside (non-detectable to outside view) each car- any hobbyist (even beginners) can easily do same..
sounds like my N scale club's roster- we have over 900 locomotives- and I get to shop most of them....
Some of my old cars has a price label on the box-- 2.85 $ ! ;-)
It was interesting watching this video in relation to your latest video.
I know that you are using n scale train cars as examples but does this also pertain to all scale model trains
Really interesting video! It's cool now to see why each car cost as much as they do, something that'll keep in mind in the future if I try to make my own...
A lot of folks are forgetting Exactrail. They were really one of the first "high - end" rolling stock makers. They are also still very much in business though they went direct bypassing dealers a number of years ago. All of my Exactrail cars are superior in quality and detail to anything I have that Microtrains made. They all come with their blackened metal wheels.
Is anyone just buying bogies and couplers and printing their own cars?
I'm from Youngstown, Ohio and I can't count high enough the number of those P&LE hoppers I used to see as a boy in the late 60's. Gateway Yard.
Lived in Ytown for a number of years. Born in Akron, now live near Cleveland.
@@kents.2866 hello my friend, wishing you all the best in 2021
@@NUKE-W.E.F. I hope you and other modelers have a great new year
Why would you leave Micro-Trains out of this comparison?