Doctor Who Series 14 - Mess or Success?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Billy and Matt discuss Doctor Who Series 14. Did it work? Where does it go from here?
Listen to the podcast here:
Apple Podcasts - t.co/k9KhobQxY...
Spotify - t.co/rgksAqDmK...
Megaphone - cms.megaphone....
Review of Death Patreon - www.patreon.co...
-----------------
About The Review of Death - A tongue-in-cheek Doctor Who review podcast produced by Pickaxe and hosted by Matthew Toffolo and Billy Garratt-John, expect all of the latest news and reviews of your favourite, and not-so-favourite, episodes of Doctor Who!
-------------------
Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio
Title Sequence designed by David Burgess - linktr.ee/davi...
Follow The Review of Death on Twitter: / reviewofdeath
Subscribe to The Review of Death on UA-cam: / batmanmarch
#DoctorWho
This is getting out of hand, now there are two of them!
We should not have made this bargain
metacrisis Matthew
@@robindavda8967 the Matthewcrisis
No sir… all theirte… oh no wait m, it is just two.
The twin dilemma
RTD: This will be a fresh start and accessible for new fans.
RTD: David Tennant, Catherine Tate, the Toymaker, Susan, Sutekh, Pyramids of Mars, Bonnie Langford, the Sixth Doctor's coat.
I wasn't prepared to be Double-Toffolo'd
... bloody bigeneration!
I, on the other hand, am more than prepared
As a big fan of Russell's, I was really looking forward to his next act as a television writer: charged, politically aware stories that don't pull punches (in a similar vein to the Twilight Zone), but was quickly let down by a few silly, rather flat stories like Space Babies & the Devil's Chord. Hopeful that things will improve, but this series' biggest sin, as a jumping on point, are its bewildering choices for opening episodes.
The only thing more surprising than watching Matt bigenerate in real time was hearing him actually say "Flux did it right."
Series 14 has the panache of Dimensions in Time. It whips along at a frenzied pace, shatters the canon, underutilizes talented actors and heavily leans on continuity references - it even has the disembodied heads of Doctors floating around the air! It starts as it ends, without consequence or reason for being in a time when Doctor Who needs to validate itself. It's not what the fans or casual viewers wanted or needed. Doctor Who needs a good old rest before it can be regenerated again. 💤✨💤
"Doctor Who needs a good old rest" no it does not. Its really weird how any fan could say that. Any Doctor Who fan should want the show to keep going, because it is constantly reinventing itself. If you don't like an era just wait for the next one. That's what Doctor Who is.
Lies.
@@friendlyotaku9525 I enjoyed Series 14 a lot, and I would very respectfully agree that what the show would benefit from the most in the near-future, is a rest, for the best part of a decade.
@@aloysiusthefish7076 sorry but No, a rest would not SOLVE anything, it would simply deprive fans of something they enjoy.
@@friendlyotaku9525 I think it would come back much stronger, ready to be loved by a whole new audience untainted by the reputation it’s, sadly - unfairly? - garnered over a many few years.
1:06:03 And on cue, the Death to the Dalek VHS flies above them. It’s fate
Just haven’t wanted to rewatch any of the episodes with this season I dunno why I’m just not interested. Even with bad episodes from Russell’s 1st era I’d give it a week or 2 and watch em again to try and give them a 2nd chance or to try like them more 😂 ….. (I never do). This time I’m just not bothered I care too little & that’s bad to say about a show I care for 😕Don’t know guys maybe season 2 will be better 😂 but I doubt it . Hope you’re having a great holiday Matthew ☀️☀️☀️
RTD has too much power and yes people around him, he needs someone to reign him in and keep him in check like budget or anything
So glad I was able to squeeze this in before seeing Longlegs in a few hours. It was also lovely to hear praise for Chibnall, Jodie and Flux as a huge Thirteen fan, especially after so many dog on it so much. I've been binge watching a lot of serialised shows in the past week, and I think there probably is something in the "Flux is how it should be now" comment. Flux is in my top three series of Revival Who, so I'd love to see something similar to that done again
Agree with a lot of the points here, especially the too many costumes point. It's not out of the ordinary for the Doctor to have a few alternate outfits, or variations on their costume but at least they still have one defining look that you could sum up with a rough sketch or description. Ncuti's Doctor doesn't have that because he constantly has new costumes, none of which seem to have any relation to one another.
I dread to think what CO/BnM are gonna have to do when it comes to making figures. There's either going to be a dozen different releases of the same figure or one big collection set with every costume and one head to swap between them xD
Yeah, I don't mind the idea of Ncuti having some variation, but I would have loved if he kept that Church on Ruby Road/Space Babies outfit for most of the season.
The period pieces , fair enough, but Boom and the finale, he could have had it
He's a great actor and looks cool in anything
But I feel like they should have alternated his look between the long brown leather coat and the long brown checked coat we saw in his first reveal.
And obviously have variety within those looks (different coloured shirts and jumpers etc,)
But that's it, I the they went too far and it robs him of his personality a little bit.
Matt went and bi-generated. Does that mean there’s also two Johnny’s kicking about?
When you were talking about the Whoniverse not working out my mind instantly went to Universals Dark Universe.
They also tried the whole cinematic universe thing before seeing if The Mummy was a Success.
I totally agree that Millie was the MVP... in fact, I think she carried the season more than Ncuti. As for him, I feel he's more focused on the big moments where he has to emote, or be campy, loud and outrageous, but rarely in the "ordinary" moments in between, where I've found his line delivery too matter-of-fact, even flat, on occasion.
IMHO, the quieter scenes are often a better test of a Doctor's quality than the barnstorming set-pieces and, as a sometime amateur actor myself, I know that the big moments are usually easiest to pull off. It's far harder to make the ordinary seem interesting.
The best actors to have played the Doctor had the ability to imbue even the most mundane lines with a sense of "otherness", but Ncuti hasn't yet done that for me... yet.
For the most part a fun season with a likeable Tardis team. Sadly it suffers from consistent pacing and tone issues whilst feeling derivative of previous seasons. If I were to rank the episodes:
8/9 Legend of Ruby Sunday and Empire of Death: Perfectly met my expectations, I went in with zero investment in the mystery boxes so had more fun with the finale than most, but it's still messy and should have been saved for a later season and given more time to flesh it out.
7 Devil's Chord: Almost great with multiple creative moments but doesn't live up to being a musical about the Beatles.
6 The Church on Ruby Road: A fun character intro but the story is over before it begins
5 Space Babies: It's fun, a little low brow but has enough heartfelt moments with 15 and Ruby to make it work.
4 Rogue: very witty and has a rare Doctor romance I can in theory see growing , however it doesn't earn a somber ending.
3 73 Yards: I love it but mostly thanks to head canons.
2 Dot and Bubble: Russell's most solid script of the season with a fascinating ending.
1 Boom: Everything I love about Moffat's writing and gives Ncuti a unique acting challenge.
Suggesting Flux is the correct template for the show going forward is a madness.
2 thoughts...
(1) I agree on your point about Ncuti not doing as many quintessentially "Doctor" things. Though, I chalk this up to the writers (...so basically RTD) not giving him as many of those smaller/quieter moments for technobabble, moral ambiguity, etc. From some of RTD's interviews, it seems some of these "transition" scenes have been cut as "fluff" that didn't directly advance each story, even if it may have helped advance the Doctor's characterization. I hope Ncuti is given more chances to show his acting chops to better flesh out his Doctor next season (for ex, I loved the Church on Ruby Road Snowman + police officer scene that was added - more of this, please!)
(2) I do understand what you're saying at the beginning of the podcast about this season as harder to just "take or leave" individual episodes. At the same time, I found this season to be the most refreshing it's been in a long while - each episode was a new experiment/a different genre in a way we haven't gotten in several seasons. So in this sense, it feels more episodic than ever, aside from a few more heavy-handed mystery box bits starting with Dot and Bubble. Perhaps it almost went too far and we didn't get enough normalcy, but I had great fun with the variety and I know a number of casual fans who stayed engaged with this season more than other ones owing to this variety, even when some weeks weren't their cup of tea.
It's just a shame all the stuff with Sutekh and the mystery with Ruby's mom were let-downs or misdirects. If not for these conclusions, this might have been one of the most cohesive DW seasons in several years for me.
oh my god! Billy's Russell impression is killing me🤣😂🤣😂
I think continuing with the episodic format in the age of streaming is a bad idea. Longform storytelling is the biggest advantage of television. If i want to watch a one-off story, i can watch a movie.
26:16 Billy's Russell impression 😆
Gotta be honest, ive come to dislike him lately with how he talks about the show.
Genuinely at this point i think we need someone new running the show
( 3:10 ) You’ll never get a series as Fresh as Series 5, RTD 2 isn’t as confident and is just constant callbacks.
I actually genuinely can’t wait for ‘The Land Between the War and the Sea’.
I think that’s the misdirect. It’s not a whole fake title. They’ve changed two words. Billy’s on it!
They could still do monster of the week episodes whilst also having a plausible story arc. The problem is, the three showrunners so far have not done it. Chibnall attempted a serial, but Flux lacked any clear narrative driving force. You could achieve it by doing a quest story like the Key to Time, or a mystery, or a chase/race scenario. I think a better alternative is for the arc has to be character based. For example they’ve never closely examined the psychological impact of time travel on a companion. There’s a lot of potential there. They came closest with Clara, but in a shorter series, in the age of streaming, the companion’s story arc should be more substantial. But it should not be an overblown, convoluted mess tenuously linked to a supervillain’s illogical scheme.
Canon is only meaningless when you have terrible writers who can't be arsed to make things make sense. Canon DOES matter or you have no story. Verisimilitude is not a dirty word.
Worked for me! Glad Doctor Who is back
Your podcast is always so intelligently constructed and always my go to for Doctor Who news and discussion. Thank you!
It's interesting how Billy brings up X-Files because it's crazy to me how much more present and meaningful the series' arc episodes feel in that show, despite being in the kinda outdated 23+ episode model. It's better to have one tangible mystery woven into the show than a million anti-climatic mystery boxes.
Was Series 14 perfect? Nah, but it got me excited for the show again
I get what you’re saying about the Doctor saying that Ruby’s mum choose not to find her and it’s unfair that Ruby found her with a Time Machine… and that he should have actually stopped her…. BUT as we were watching that scene my wife out loud shouted “that’s not your decision!” (To the Doctor) and she’s right. the Doctor has advise but it’s not really his place to STOP Ruby there.
'Mess' doesn't even come into it for me, it was a success from start to finish. Genuinely not a single episode from Star Beast to Empire of Death that I've disliked. It's been an outstanding run of not just Doctor Who, but television. The pay off more than worked for me, the reveal of Ruby's mum was a brilliant subversion. Can't wait for season 2!!
Also, just a note on Ncuti, I think it's a shame one of the most positive thing said about him was 'he's nice and he likes fashion' from Matthew and 'I've got a long coat and I'm quite amiable' from Billy. Really? When scenes like the following exist: the realisation of another god in Devils Chord, the derelict London in Devils Chord, the entirety of Boom, the ending of Dot and Bubble, the entirety of Rogue, the time window sequence in Legend, the ending of Legend, the breakdown in the Memory TARDIS in Empire of Death... I think he solidified himself as the Doctor in The Giggle and he's just gone from strength to strength ever since!
"Create and mess up your own villains" think I was the one who said that on Twitter
I wonder if there's a possibility for re shoots for se due to the response of this season . If anything from this season which has been negatively received is showing up again in the bext season, itd be well worth trying to fix those issues before going onto Series 16
I'm not that keen on some of Series 14, Space Babies for me is plain stupid. The set up about Ruby's Mother was all fake drama. I hate what Russell has done to Sutekh. It's a stupid childish idea about Sutekh in the TARDIS. There was no evidence before Wild Blue Yonder
The X-Files has a huge advantage in that Mulder and Scully are so good together even in bad episodes, that I’d watch them in anything.
I’m going to watch Doctor who no matter what there may be episodes I don’t like but I’m still
going to watch, when I’m a fan of something I watch everything no matter how good or bad it is I’ll watch all Doctor Who all Marvel all Star Wars etc I love these universes so I’ll watch it regardless
Definitely hasn't been the success people were hoping for :( I think season 3 needs to be a full blown monster season like season 5 of classic was.
I feel you are under selling Ncuti /15 , he's a Doctor that is brutally honest about themselves, welcome growth from 13. to say there's zero edge or moral ambiguity is untrue, the climax of Ruby Road, Basically all of Boom, not to mention the end of Dot and Bubble, which is both well acted and is a twist of his kindness being thrown back in his face.
In Brazil? I'm brazilian! Please, you need to meet Ronaldinho ASAP!
Doctor Who just needs a NEW team to drive it. Under Russell as EP, fresh ideas and new stories. Interesting as a Star Trek fan, that RTD and Star Trek EP Alex Kurtzman are doing a Doctor Who x Star Trek panel at SDCC
I'm here a week later, and I'm laughing at you.
With the amount Billy's having to get up for the loo lately, I'm starting to wonder if he needs to get himself checked lol
Paradise towers is a shining beacon in season 24, a decent story surrounded by garbage, empire of death is empire of death, a terrible episode which ruins the great one before it and is surrounded by decent ones, they are not comparable 😂
All the chat for the first 20 minutes about "it not working anymore" can *only* a criticism of the viewing figures. When it was bad this season it wasn't because it wasn't bingeable enough. Russell hasn't suddenly become a bad writer because people are used to streaming services. Obviously if it doesn't do well on streaming that'll affect its longevity but I think fans often spend too much time talking about the meta issues of the show rather than the actual art of it, its themes, characters, story, design etc.
I think fans are putting way too much emphasis on the Disney of it all, tbh. Even upon the release of S1, Disney's involvement in international marketing was minimal. It wasn't a big blockbuster splash of advertising as it would be for one of their original properties. Even when contributing financially, DW is "low-budget" in their eyes (confirmed). They're a franchise-eating monster and they're going to want to keep a money-maker like DW in their grip in the same way they acquired Marvel, Star Wars, The Simpsons, etc. People also need to stop expecting Disney to put out some kind of a statement about ratings, because that's just not their style.
It wasn't a mess and Doctor Who still good.
I get some fans will see this as 'extreme' but I just think bringing "the old gang" back was a terrible idea. I understand where it came from but all the same. Moffat has done Doctor Who to death, what more could he possibly add? It's great then that he's seemingly only doing the odd episode here or there.
RTD had a fairly specific take on Who that was self admittedly a clone of (the generally much better) Buffy, this fit a certain time and audience.
Neither one of them have ever made Doctor Who in a way that relates all that much to the original show and neither one have ever written consistently strong TV that happens to have the name Doctor Who, with the ups and downs being pretty dramatic most of the time (I'd say Series 1, 3 and 5 are the exceptions to that rule, personally).
Who needs new blood quick and has done for years and years now. Ridiculous that this hasn't been addressed when it's a problem you could see forming back in 2013/14. Ah well, I'll still watch next year, so guess I'm the fool?
I think I'm starting to get what kind of character the 15th Doctor is based from what we've seen so far. He's basically a Empath character. The kind where he it's clear what kind of emotion he's feeling. If he's happy, he's bouncing off the walls, if he's angry, it's guttural, if he's sad, he'll cry. Every emotion is turned up to the max if that makes sense. Like having the volume on a stereo on full blast. It's impossible to miss what this Doctor is feeling. I like to think sort of like how Sherlock can gather so much information from just looking at tiny details of person or place, 15 can read people like a book based on their emotional reaction and behaviour. He can breakdown what is going on with someone based on how they react to a situation on a emotional level. That heighten level of emotional intelligence. He's able to see a person's intricate journey laid out before him.
What do people think? Because this is the impression I'm starting to get with Ncuti's Doctor.
I think this is a good way of describing him, i have got the same impression from Ncuti’s incarnation as well. I love his charisma too.
@@CTheRobot Thanks 😁 Yeah the fact he was absent for a good chunk of the series makes it hard to pin down what his Doctor is like at first. But having time to think about it, the empath trait is the one that makes the most sense based on what we have seen of him. Hopefully moving forward, we'll get to see that play out more.
73 Yards only. I'm no longer watching anymore new series though.
Got to love the efforts you both go to, but I’m not sold on the whole Billy bigenerating thing throughout…
What's happened to death to the Daleks review? 😮
Matthew: “Hey Billy, how about you try not to have any technical issues for once?”
Billy: “ɘɿυƧ”
I’m so annoyed UA-cam took a week to recommend me this and notify me
I actually think they should just do a different story each week. Would be better
What going on with the screens two Mathew's lol 😆
25:49 Only Fans?! Gosh, the Whoniverse certainly is taking an interesting turn...
I don't like the cutting away from Billy all the time. Just saying.
Did you ask the Iranian co-worker if they have any access to the Marco Polo's?
I'm sorry but I disagree, I adore Flux but I wouldn't want every series to be like that - do that now and again as an event series but I think Doctor Who's bread and butter is monster of the week stories and that absolutely still works, Strange New Worlds is a perfect example where each week is a new scenario, a new adventure, a new mission and even in this season of Doctor Who the best episodes were the monster of the week stories like Boom and Rogue! I will say however more two part stories would be welcome! I also think the episodes should be longer, my biggest disappointment of this season were episodes being way too short, even compared to the Chibnall era, it's baffling as to why we've gone back to 45 minutes on average when Chibnall episodes were 50 minutes, especially since there are LESS episodes!! That baffles me.
Despite what anyone says though Doctor Who isn't going anywhere, Doctor Who is one of the BBC's biggest properties so no matter what they will keep it going so I ain't worried about that, and I'm very excited for what's to come!
Come to love RTD series 14 ? No. Death to the Daleks , excellent.
Bombastic is such an overused term. Especially in Dr. Who circles
Best series since 4.
😂😂😂😂
@@Randy_Batswinger Well, someone’s insecure.
I find the latest season of who is just a lot of shouting. From The Doctor especially.
Shout shout shout. And if u didn’t hear me the first time, shout!
Lack of consequences was very Moffat like. Started from the 60th to the finale if ya ask me.
Can’t tell if it was Davies trying to be more light hearted or Disney mandates
I think Classic Who also lack of consequences.
@@mayotango1317respectfully disagree. People died all the time, they weren’t magically brought back, companions left and that was it, it wasn’t like every story ended with a “reset them to life “ bottom or magically undid Jamie and Zoe’s memory loss
@@mediakira6621 Really? I mean dinosaurs invade London and nobody remember that.
A total mess of a series, unbelievably worse than the Chibnall era, complete with a retcon of Sutekh that is a total lie and a lead character who could be anyone apart from the Doctor.
In a word, no.
I agree that Gatwa doesn’t have that edge. The stoicism and resilience of previous Doctors. RTD deliberately changed the Doctor’s characterisation with the awful bi-generation making him more emotional and developing a sex drive as we saw in Rogue. It’s out of character for the Doctor but that’s intentional. This is the version RTD wants and to Hell with what works. It’s not my cup of tea. Classic Who always respected canon and built on what worked without destroying the winning elements. I agree with many of your points here. I think we need new people working on it who can give us decent science fiction stories. The same old writers is making it repetitive in many ways. Keep the basic elements that work but create strong intelligent mature plots and take it seriously because this version feels very much like a parody of Doctor Who.
My Season 1 (2024) Ranking:
9. Space Babies 3/10
8. Dot and Bubble 3/10
7. Boom 3/10
6. Rouge 5/10
5. 73 Yards 5/10
4. The Church on Ruby Road 7/10
3. Empire of Death 8/10 (I enjoyed it until the reveal with Ruby's Mum.)
2. The Legend of Ruby Sunday 8/10
1. The Devil's Chord 9/10
Average Score 6/10
My 2005- 2024 Series Ranking:
15.Series 6
12. Series 2
14.Season 1 (2024)
13. 60th Anniversary
11. Series 1
10. Series 8
9. Series 4
8. Series 3
7. Series 5
6. Series 7
5. Series 9
4. Series 12
3. Series 10
2. Series 11
1. Series 13
absolute sht take
Both.
Absolute rubbish!
Noob