Rev Max Sportster: A Huge Change that is a Gamble for Harley-Davidson
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- Опубліковано 7 лис 2022
- We are at a significant turning point in the history of Harley-Davidson. After 65 years of the Sportster being in production H-D has now started to phase out the beloved air-cooled evolution engine after 37 years of it being the power plant for the family. We have now seen the two newest Sportster models bult on Harley's newest platform, the Revolution Max. This moves completely changes the Sportster in everyway. Harley-Davidson definitely put the "Sport" back in the Sportster family with this new liquid-cooled engine. Along with a whole catalog of upgrades including better brakes, lighter chassis, better suspension, Electronic rider aids, etc. But by doing this is H-D compromising the mechanical character of one of their most popular motorcycles?
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I have a 2023 nightster. Best motorcycle I've ever had. And I know it's a good bike, because the only complaints anyone ever has about the nightster are how some part or other isn't *pretty* enough for them.
Also, you almost never hear them even mention the performance. The reaction to these new sportster models by the average Harley riders has me convinced that I don't have much in common with the average Harley rider. For them I think it's more about image, sound and attitude rather than how well the machine motorcycles.
Forgot sounds like crap. Even non-riders would say so.
@@user-mw5wd2gd5u Aww, does the motorcycle not sound pretty enough? Poor little fella.
@@super16g123 Everyone I've seen who actually rides some sort of motorcycle likes my nightster, it's posers like the other reply who whine about it.
I am 42 years old, and fit/finish is EXTREMELY important to me. I like Harleys because they are rolling sculpture. I looked at Indians, and they seem plastic to me. They cover everything up. I looked at Triumph as well, and they are close to Harley (some models more than others), but still not quite as premium looking or feeling. There's a reason I ended up on a Road King Special... And it's not because I'm a Harley snob or a chest beating one brand loving type. I think ANYTHING on two wheels is cool (even scooters), but some are just more special than others... And what makes them special to ME is that impeccable fit and finish...
I appreciate the comment and you weighing in on the topic. I agree with you. The fit and finish is extremely important to me too, especially for a cruiser. An ADV bike like the Pan America has higher priorities like weight. I think it's good H-D has both the M8 and the Rev Max to build different bikes off of.
You two are still young. I’ve been riding my Harley’s longer than your age. You don’t know what you’re talking about
@@mauriceduran2258 okay buddy... Calm down. Don't need you getting riled up and having a stroke
I LOVE my FLHR (standard).
You’re so right the way u describe them as rolling sculptures.
I love how I feel like I’m riding a piece of history. And it’s a reliable piece of history.
The nostalgia factor for me is important
When I think motorcycle …. I think of a HD. Have as long as I’ve known what a bike was.
I’m 40. Dreamed of riding a Harley really hard since I was 14 and some dude rolled up at the hardware store I worked at on a heritage softail… the cow glide one lol.. very limited color scheme .. black and white with cow hide on the seat (yup.. factory like that !!!!)
Last year I finally got a Harley. I loved riding my prior metric cruiser I had for years.. riding ahythibr beats not riding .. but a HD just feels like so much more … got a 2009 Fatboy sinxe I hadn’t ridden for a while and didn’t wanna jump on a super expensive bike.. took back to it like a duck to water tho … Few months later stumbled upon a 2019 FLHR with 4K miles for the price of a new 1200 out the door. The road king is the perfect bike.
Based on how u speak I can tell your RKS is more than just a “bike” to u. It represents so much.
The new rev max motors are dope
But a big twin with a cam and full exhaust can’t be replaced.
Ride safe brother
***IDK if you’re on Facebook but there are a few Road King groups on there. Lots of good info and discussions and pics or ppls builds etc
@@MattLaidlaw I need that big ole air cooled motor bouncing around on its mounts at idle with its lope from the cam. Even waiting at a light like that feels amazing! And it’s not even moving !!!
Clunk into 1st. Oh man..
But … as a 2nd bike .. the 975 pan am or the new nightster may be bad ass.
They prob rip. Fast as hell
My Sportster 1200 is my baby, I like the new ones, but the classic chrome appointments are beautiful and it has amazing performance. This bike can get up and go and has never had a problem with underperformance.
There are so many used Air Cooled - I think folks will keep one around for the neighborhood ride
Absolutely
I am an owner of an EVO 1200 and love it. My husband will even take it instead of his Road Glide to run to town LOl. I will be hard pressed to get rid of it. I love the fact that I can work on it myself when needed. His 2019 Road Glide Special is going to have to go to the shop if something happens.
Bingo. Much more Harley
Love it. Hang onto that bike!
I remember once a upon a time (1984) when the Evo came out. The old school boys lost their sh*t! Now we’re losing our sh*t over the Evo! 😂😂😂
I have the best of all worlds, a 2017 Roadster with a stage 4 upgrade. The gearing on that thing is a bit tall so Im not afraid of taking it on the interstate. Plus, I upgraded the shocks, put on some sticky tires, a clip on fairing, and voila an instant classic. Matt, loved all your videos featuring the Roadster, especially the Cafe Racer Project. You totally convinced me to buy The Roadster as my first Harley. Thank you!
That’s a great bike. The Roadster is super under appreciated. Enjoy. Thanks for supporting the channel
The sound is the killer. RevMax is a great engine that just sounds terrible and honestly it's a dealbreaker for me. I can't get over it having ridden the Pan Am, S, and Nightster.
I don't understand why Harley didn't bother with even attempting to make a good-sounding application. The V-Rod's Revolution sounded great with pipes. Indian pulled off liquid-cooled engines that still sound tough. The RevMax sounds like a sewing machine and the early returns on aftermarket pipes aren't promising at all. Say what you want about it...the performance is there, the bikes ride great, the gadgets and upgrades are awesome, but the noise is a big deal for Harley guys in general and the cruiser market.
I feel like the modernized platforms would've been a lot more accepted by the Harley faithful if they were SOMEWHAT closer in sound. To go from what the Evo sounded like to the RevMax is a huge dramatic change that's turning off a ton of people.
I'm surprised you think there are liquid cooled bikes that sound better than the Rev Max. My Pan America sounds great and I have the SE muffler (removed baffle) on it. My co-workers have the Yoshimura and other pipes that I think really amplify the sound. I think they sounds every bit as good as the v-rod, again you gotta have some type of aftermarket exhaust on there. Stock they sound pretty weak
@@MattLaidlaw To each their own, it's subjective, but I definitely think it's a weak-sounding motor and I know I'm not alone on that thought.
Yeah, V-Rods stock were weak sounding, I can agree with that, but they got woken up big time with a muffler swap and it was a pleasurable tone, the Rev Max just doesn't have a good tone to it IMO (it's more like the Street 500s and 750s, you could make them noisy, but it's not a GOOD noise) and honestly it doesn't compare to the sound of a Scout with pipes either (and I'm no fan of that Indian.)
@MattLaidlaw I have the S myself, stock. And while I agree the tone isn't very aggressive it is giving me the ducati 937cc L twin vibe. Would like to hear a TBR 1250 in person
Yer unfortunately we here in Australia 🇦🇺 didn't get the evo sporty this year .. sad to see such a historic platform of H-DMoCo being dropped evermore...
Really dig your content cheers 🍻
New engine looks like play mobile toy. Not my thing.
Not a moto for manly men.
I will say visually it sucks. I'm 64 and have been riding for 30 years and currently am on my fourth bike a SGS. When I was much younger and would go into the local Harley shop one thing I loved about the sportster was how big the engine stood out in the smaller frame. It looked awesome. The new motor looks stamped out and bland. Just my opinion.
killing the air cooled Sportster is a mistake.
The new platform may be superior in performance, but Harley Davidson has built it's brand improving on a classic platform that enthusiasts love.
That's right. Luckily Royal Enfield just released super meteor 650 touring models and they look very close to Evo Sportsters from early 2000-2006 model's. Parallel twin single cam air oil cool engine. Has a gorgeous engine lug notes and New price cost of what a 883 cost back in 2000.
I think the sportster S would sell better/attract more buyers if it was sold under a different model name. The sportster hasn't changed much in nearly two full (human) generations. Now its a brand new engine, liquid cooled, timing chains, double the HP, there is NO frame, got sport bike tires, and more. There's only two things that bike has in common with a traditional HD and that's the name on the tank and the forward controls. I like new tech but this is too different to be a sportster.
I wasn't impressed with the name either.
Some big things I don't like about the new sporster is number one is number 1 the sound. Number 2 is the ease of use for being a mechanic on your own bike. And number 3 is sound the way it runs its way too smooth and it shifts to smooth. It does not have that raw feel and am I opinion they are trying to compete with the rest of the world instead of staying true to the Harley way
Have you heard the Sportster S in person? They sound a lot better than they do in videos.
The sports the has a special look A hot rod The way the engine blends into the frame A true classic I'll miss it when it's not around anymore Thank you for the video take care
Thanks for watching
Good video! The arguments made for the Revolution powered Sportster over a Classic Sportster are the same arguments made for buying a European or Japanese bike instead of a Harley. The new Honda Gold Wing will leave a Harley in the dust on the freeway, yet Harley still sales more touring motorcycles. Who in the last 50 years bought a Harley because it's faster? Harley needed to upgrade the Sportster, but I think discontinuing the classic air cooled v-twin is a mistake. There's a video on UA-cam called "Harley Davidson 48 Night Ride / Pure Engine Sound Only." There's no talking in the video just the sound of riding a classic Sportster. The video has 1.4 million views in 1 year. Try making a video like that using a Honda Shadow or a Revolution powered Sportster.
I think some of the issue behind are related to the bull shit governmental environmental regulations. Like you said, people buy these bikes because they look and feel awesome, not because they want to go insanely fast. The new sportsters are fugly. I'd never buy one. If I wanted to go fast I'd go buy a liter bike.
I see them eventually bringing back the "old school" sportster as a way to be like a revival situation.
Harley sells more touring motorcycles than Honda who are you kidding. Honda makes more gold wings than Harley sells in their whole line of bikes. Honda has a line of bikes for everybody from the smallest to the largest dirt bikes touring bikes commuter bikes Cruisers whatever if I want a liquid cool V-Twin I could buy a jet bike with more horsepower more dependability and everything else compared to a Harley that's going to spend all the time in the shop after costing twice as much as well. Today's motorcycles are collected of government regulations on two wheels no more no less. The guys riding them are the biggest bunch of posers that ever came down the pike. The only thing good about the ride to drink drink to ride crowd is that they're so old they're about to go to the nursing home or take a nap and someone is going to buy their bike for 10 cents on the dollar and enjoy the hell out of it. If Harley-Davidson thinks it's going to out Honda Honda I want to know what the hell they're drinking in that Kool-Aid. Maybe they can get their next CEO from Victoria's Secret and they can come out with pink motorcycles with lace or some other bullshit after they kick the sneaker guy out. Their management is pathetic and laughable and Harley has made nothing but horrible mistakes for the last 20 years and if they think a $30,000 dirt bike is going to save their ass they got another thing coming. And they're rev Max motor has as many mechanical difficulties as the Milwaukee 8 engine has. I love the one where the test Riders can get the starter on compression and it can't get over the certainty to What compression and it makes it sound like you stepped on a cat's tail. It would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic. Just like all these big adventure bikes that never get down a dirt road they are just for a different gang of posers. In the old days if you went around the world you had an airhead BMW motorcycle that was stocked and you took it around the world. You took a stock Triumph with stock suspension and rode it around the world like Ted Simon did in the '70s. There was no GPS no nothing no cell phones just you and your bike and if you met someone else riding around the world on their motorcycle chances are it was a BMW Airhead as well. In the old days the British motorcycle industry had dealerships and shops all over the world. BSA had a dealership in Malta an island so small you can walk across it in an afternoon. No address listed in the listing just look for Christ Church when you see the Church staple the BSA dealership is right next door.
The Honda Sportster is what I call it. The reason this bike will fail is the same way the V-rod failed it's not a Harley Davidson because Harley Davidson built and stayed with push rods and never went over to over head cams or liquid cooled engines all those years before the V-rod because that's not the platform the original founders wanted. They wanted a simple V-twin that was air-cooled that anyone could work on and a computer does not belong on a Harley. The new Harleys are just not Harley. Harley Davidson is actually going in the wrong direction and they will lose more and more sales because Harley Davidson was never meant to be a performance Machine it's a cruser not a space rocket. If the corporate high archy in Harley Davidson think this bike will be a success they are mistaken. The live wire has virtually no sales. Nobody wants an electric bike with a Harley badge on it. It's not what Harley Davidson was supposed to be all about. I am a hard core Harley Davidson old-school fan. The old shovel head and pan heads even the knuckles are what Harley Davidson was supposed to be. Now the company obviously has no idea how bad they not only priced themselves out of the market but designed themselves out of the market too. There is no way that the company will survive another 10 years going like this. If Harley Davidson went back to their old Designs like the shovel head or the knuckle head. Their sales would increase dramatically. And lower their prices. Alot of guys are moving towards the old school Harleys because they see what Harley Davidson was and should be. It's not about the internet of things so to speak. Harley Davidson went head first into technology that Harley Davidson was never supposed to be and it's a damn shame that China took over the Evo designe. A Chinese company called shineray took over the 1200 Evo. Harley Davidson shot themselves in the foot. There is no way Harley Davidson will survive because there are stupid idiots running Harley Davidson. And they are letting three letter agencies like the EPA dictate what they can build and can't build and sell.
@@Johnclark300 Frigen good assessment! 👍🇬🇧🇺🇸😎
They need the Bronx to bring in the non-cruiser riders to the brand.
I started riding Harleys back in 1955 when I was 14. A 1942 "45" flat head. It was not great on power, but super fun to ride. I have a 99 Softail Custom now, which I really like. I will be 82 in a couple of weeks, so will be my last bike. I rode an 84 Iron head XLCH for 23 years. Super fun bike.
The government is dictating the change to new technology. Water cooling for less emissions. All electronic controls for lower emissions. In the old days, you could tell the difference between a Harley and a Triumph by the smell of the exhaust. I have ridden both, along with Whizzer motor bikes when I was 8 years old.
Every time the new comes out with such a big change we lose something. Which do you like most. Steam engines or diesel? Radial engine airplanes or turbo jets?
All the newer Harleys from the EVO on do nothing for me. Maybe the newer generation will like them. Us old dudes will probably hang on to the past which will keep the cost of older Harleys high for a few years.
I love my solid mounted unbalanced carbureted EVO. 23 years old and when washed looks like new. I wash it twice a year whether in needs it or not because I live on 1/4 mile of gravel to the highway. But it is a lovable old Harley. They will never be made again. It is now a classic. Much like old 57 Chevys. I had two of those.
Time will tell if the new ones are accepted by enough people to keep Harley going. I still love steam engines and radial airplane engines. But what would you expect out of my generation. When John Deere replaced the 2 cylinder big bore John Deere A, I sat down and cried.
Whoever designed the exhaust on the new rev max has never heard of saddlebags, or seriously hates them. I hope Vance&Hines or TBR can manufacture something badass to fix this.
The fit and finish of Harley-Davidson is not superficial but kind of wilfully done with good material and purpose. Nothing I have seen can compare the feel of even those metal case switches of Harley-Davidson
Ironhead Sportster run 2k+ in the NE now that it is Fall. 95-03 1200s run $3kish. To each his own but older bikes have character and you aren't touring with any of these bikes unless you are a badass in which case plastic was never an option.
I like the new 975 engine and think there is a lot of potentials. The problem i have with the bike is the cheap materials used,unfinished,and metric look and feel
The giant radiator shroud is what really hurts the styling of the 975 IMHO.
U can almost use it for pegs hHah
Should have kept it in production. Big in other countries. Feels like you are riding a motorcycle. The new sportster has all the newer bells and whistles and better in a lot of areas but misses something. Great podcast and feedback from Nick and Andrew. Basically covered all points in an unbiased way.
Think you'll find HD is aiming this more for younger riders for whom all the bells and whistles are an added attraction. I've already seen a few at my local dealer trying them out.
Meanwhile, I'll stick to my 2018 Road King until the old joints say otherwise.
Thanks for the comment Murph. I can see why they couldn't keep making it but I think some circles or riders will definitely miss it.
The EPA and euro emissions finally killed off the EVO motor
@@CactusJack252 nope Royal Enfield super meteor tour 650 twin air oil cool engine. Passed EU emissions looks very close to Evo sportster more poke than 883 £5489.00
I'll tell you what it's missing...... an air cooled, 1200 cc 45 degree V-Twin
I don't see the new Sportster selling anywhere near as much as the previous gen. Customization will be mostly limited to cosmetics(I don't see the aftermarket making cams, big bore cylinders, pistons, stroker cranks, etc.), the entry level(into H.D.) price increase will limit buyers and send them to cheaper metric brands, the technical expertise for the back yard mechanics will now need to be increased, increased seat height will be tougher for the vertically challenged(I don't see my 4'11" sister-in-law being able to ride one, as she does her '48), I understand the evo Sportster needed an update but I think H.D. went overboard and is trying to appease (millennial) riders and critics that wouldn't buy an H.D. regardless. I think H.D. MoCo has lost touch with it's base and that's a shame.
In my humble opinion, Harley didn’t go far enough towards a performance oriented sportster with the new bikes. If The Motor Company wants to play in the naked performance bike pool, they need to boost the performance up to MT-09 or speed triple territory. If you’re going to move away from the rumble and roar of the EVO, they need to build a true performance bike, just like the original sportster was. Oh, and they need to keep the price in the same ballpark as the speed triple.
While I agree, the Bronx idea is still the more sporty concept, I bought an S 1250 (came off a cbr) and it's fucking incredible. I cross shopped it with the ducati sf v2 and the triumph street triple rs, but the insurance and leg room really sold me on it
I rode a Scout 69 three times on three separate occasions. One ride on a 1200 Sporty and I was hooked.
Good to know. Thanks.
Cancelling the Evolution Sportster is a huge mistake
…and canceling the Ironhead was an even bigger mistake
Back in 1989-90 ish I owned a 1979 1200 Sportster. An AMF. Need I say more. You know the old addage that goes: don't buy a vehicle that was built on a monday or a friday, well this bike was probably the worst year, month and day. There was a book that was published to help people like me that was titled "How to un-f**k your Harley Sportster". That didn't even help. No matter what gear tooth you put the timing to, it backfired. So I kept it at the factory mark. The carburator was mounted with a rubber airline, held with some hose clamps. After about 5 miles, I would have to stop and refit the hoses and tighten the clamps. The carb fell off on me once. The book-fix, was to tear down the engine and get someone to TIG weld mating flanges to the intake and the carb. I saw an example of that once, and that looked good. On a test run, after changing out the clutch plates, I had someone follow me in their car. When we got back, he told me that my tires didn't line up. What??? So I followed him around the block, and OMG, the tires didn't align with each other. They ran straight, but not inline !?!? Needless to say, I got the bike running, and put it out for sale, and ended up trading for a suped-up 1978 Ford Fairmont, with a 351 ci Cleveland racing engine and a 3-speed automatic trannie. Also it had a fine interior and a sparkly deep blue paint job and chrome rims. I was happy. I could pass anything except a gas station.
There are so many retro bikes available on the market, for example Triumph has its Modern Classics. However, the Evo Sportster was the real deal, not a modern bike pretending to be old school, rather a truly old school bike that was still being made, with a varied and excellent choice of models throughout the years. Other manufacturers just can’t, or should I say couldn’t, compete with that lineage and authenticity.
Personally I’ve got time for the Sportster S, it’s a fresh design direction of all its own, but the “retro” Nightster looks like a Harley impersonating a Honda, which in turn is impersonating a Harley.
Furthermore, the coolant system and left hand side of the Nightster’s engine design is beyond disappointing, and nowhere near the usual beauty of design that Harley Davidson excels at.
LEAVE THE SPORTSTER THE EXACT SAME BUT PUT THE NEW MOTOR IN. THATS IT.
The Sportster “was” Legendary and I stick to my guns by saying they should have dropped the name, it’s not a Sporty by any stretch any more.
The M8 still holds true to a pushrod V twin, the Revo, not even in the same ballpark. RIP 🪦 Sportster.
I am the proud owner of a Sporster Roadster XL1200 CX and I love it, my only complaint against Harley Davidson is that everyone talks about the customization of your bike and the minute you start changing things the warranty gets VOID! Out of the factory most Harleys need a lot of customized accessories, starting with the seats, suspension, air intake, muffler, etc.
I chaged all this on my Roadster 2019 and now it drives like a dream and she is a looker! All this accessories remove a lot of unnecessary pounds make it nimble, fast and totally maneuverable.
The Nightster and Sporster S are awesome, except for the ugly muffler and seat. Now that engine on the Panamerica…sweet!!
Love Sporty’s, but I feel if HD offered the Bronx it would’ve sold very well. They keep reinventing the wheel.
I have to agree with what Andrew say's. Last year I traded my BMW 1200GS in for a Pan America. Now I am not about to denigrate because it has so many good things going for it but in comparison to my GS it just did not have any character. I am now once again riding another GS but... And the but is that I now have many friends that ride Harleys and I just love the sound of V Twin engine. I once again want another Harley but heeding to the advice you gave Matt when buying a Harley in that it's better to wait to be able to afford the one that suits your needs than to settle for one that costs less and you're not really happy with.
If only the Tourers cost less.
I agree with Nick. Bags, fairing, two up seat and the Nightster becomes extremely versatile.
It's a good all around bike but I think the size of the gas tank is a very limiting factor if you're going to ride distance on that bike.
I hope that the new bikes bring new riders into Harley but I'll keep my Evo Sportster. I'd think HD would have put a 6 speed in the EVO Sporty years ago to be more competitive. I can't believe HD is getting rid of the EVO Sportster but for current prices a person would be better off getting a Softail anyway.
I was Born before the Sportster..68 yo and Right now,,just got off my 00 XL1200C,Plenty of them out there,,for many years to come,,But I think its a Good way to Go,, My opinion,
$13,500 starting price as HD's lowest price point just hurts my soul. Freight/prep, state tax, titling fee, paper pushing fee (did I miss any?) and I would just take my money to Triumph. I've priced several Triumph builds recently, 900cc and higher engines, with a bunch of accessories, and nearly all my builds come out between $12,000 to $14,000. What the hell HD?
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I have had 2 road kings, an 883, a twin cam street bob and an M8 fat bob. I recently had to get rid of my road king due to financial situation and I had a choice between the softail standard and the nightster. In the end I chose the nightster for multiple reasons. The point that really sealed the deal is that the nightster is the same size as the softail standard side by side. Add on top that it has rider assist, liquid cooling, way more power. I am hoping they release more accessories in January. I have already replaced the muffler with the only aftermarket unit available from S&S and wow what a difference. Defiantly does not sound like a harley. More like ducati davidson lol. Looking forward to a possible cruise control option...hopefully
It reminds me of the way a Scout sounds.
Yea, a pipe on the Rev Max makes that motor sound mean. Different than traditional Harley but still really good. I appreciate the comment man. It's always good hearing from actual owners that made the decision with their hard earned money. Thanks for the comment
@@jasonrose6562 I don't know man. Scouts sound tough and throaty, the Nightster with the S&S is okay sounding at idle but it's light and raspy at speed, and sounds even more weak when the revs fall off as soon as you ease on the throttle. Just not a fun or pleasurable sound to me at all, it's like the difference between a Mustang and a Civic. One will always sound good, and the other won't (no matter how hard people try.)
If it ain't broke leave history alone .
I bought a 2001 883 as my first bike 10 years ago. on the first day it was fast. After about a month of riding it felt weak and very under powered. Well I got it for $3200 and couldn't afford another motorcycle so i just kept riding it all these years. Now I realize it has everything I need in a motorcycle. I mainly use it for a 45 minute commute with about 30min on the highway. No issues riding 75-85 mph, good gas mileage. At this point I'm just going to ride it. Maybe in ten years I can pass it down to my son.
If I were running the Sportster program, I would keep it simple. Stick with the traditional frame with small improvements in rigidity and suspension geometry. Install a small displacement Milwaukee 8, say 80 cubic inch with six speed. Air cooled only, no oil cooler. Keep the fit and finish high quality. Keep the price near 10k-12K and you'd have a nice package. The new Nightster feels very "Street 750ish" and we all know how that ended. I love Matt and all of his team at Laidlaw's but this piece feels like damage control. I look forward to sales stats which will reflect the "acceptance" of this new machine.
I agree with you with keeping the sportster simple. HD should of kept it but I'm just a rider. Sportster 1000 was my first and only bike and I honestly tried out the nightster and the ST's just not the same. I never cared for speeding down the road because I honestly know what it feels like when you're back tire blows out and becomes your front doing 60. I put over 300 k on mine and as long as it gets me from point A to B I was content. Matt I have enjoyed your videos from the git go and I've actually met you at your HD store years ago. Thank you
I can understand the need for a change but they could of at least done it right. The new Triumph Bonnevile range kept the air cooled look of the engine, its watercooled but no ugly hoses or huge radiators. The new Sportster engine looks awful, particulary the left side and the rest of the bike is no better. I'll stick with my 2001 1200S.
Indian Scout managed to make both of the engine sides look nice.
I did the liter bike thing and they are a blast on a race course, anywhere else? Maybe posing at a meetup at a boba tea parking lot. Going back to H-D made riding fun again on public roads, rural or city. The slow bike fast thing is real. Thank you for sharing. Ride Free
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I have the fully built 1200 sportster with hammer 1275 kit and all the other parts. It's a great bike and has so much character. It rolls down the highway at 80 in low RPM's. It out runs a lot of the big bikes
That’s cool. Yea, they can be built to beasts.
I recently jumped from a CBR to the Sportster S and I'm not gonna lie, the bike so far has been awesome. It's very sport oriented, very muscle-bike inspired. Took a few rides to get used to the forward controls, and that front tire, but overall I'm really enjoying it.
For someone coming off a sport bike it's insanely comfortable, and all I need is a big tank bag and I'm good for my travel needs (yes I toured on my CBR).
BTW I'm 6'3 and it feels great, idc if it looks small, most bikes ARE too small for me. I was even uncomfortable on my buddy's road glide (knees felt too high)
As someone who began admiring Sportsters as a teenager, and who has owned an 883 Custom, an 883 Iron, and my current dream bike; the 48, I was delighted to hear the statement, "The Sportster is not an entry level bike..."
For me, and I suspect for many, it was the end all be all!! I appreciate the other H-D models, but the Sportster is the only Harley for me!
Like your u tube. I think moto guzzi got it right with the new v100.
I think the issue is one of aesthetics..The Sportster looks like a proper motorcycle, and I can understand why so many people started their Harley journey on this bike. The Sportster S and the Nighster are better motorcycles, but they could never be described as handsome from all angles. That’s the issue for me, and it will be interesting to see if they match the Sportster’s sales success.
Valid perspective. I’ll be curious to see how heavily that factor plays into the sales success. I don’t think they look bad but there is something to be said for the clean simplicity of the evo sportsters.
I’ve sat on the new Nightster. Harley is making a massive mistake. They made a Honda with zero soul that costs way more. It sounds terrible and looks ugly. They have no intro bike now that actually represents what a Harley should be.
as a 6'6" tall 390 lb man, I have always known that me on a sportster was the equivalent
to a monkey fu&$%^g a football. That never stopped me from admiring and loving the bike, although reality has me on a 21 Road Glide. That being said I do find it sad that the bike will no longer exist. I remember in the 70s sitting on my brother in law's custom chopped sportster, and wanting one in the worst way. I will miss the bike, and wish I could ride one, own one, and not care that I would look ridiculous on one. Long live the Sportster
BTW Matt, I think you look ok on the new sportster. Me being as big as I am may be the difference.
My 2011 fat bob is cool blue pearl a rare colour here in Australia and it is immaculate.The fit and finish is superb its as new as the day i bought it,Harley make them sparkle .I do like the new platform you evolve or you dissolve.
Great discussion guy's - I grew up in a HD family and at 55 own none at the moment (2019' Goldwing DCT & 22' Ninja H2 SXSE) I will eventually put another HD in my garage but am excited to see its continued evolution - I swear i thought Matt's opening line was going to lead into November Mustaches
I'm 57 and currently have an 06 VRSCR Street Rod and absolutely love it. If I were trade it for anything it will be a Nightster Special. To me it embodies everything that I like about my Street Rod. Liquid Cooled, good power, killer looks, mid controls and a sixth gear. For me it's the modernization of the VRSCR. Sure it has less power but it's also a lot lighter.
They don't have a choice they need to make the change might as well do it now. I saw a couple of the new Nightsters at your shop last weekend I think the new bike looks great.
That big radiator, short of spoils any custom bike. I said the same with the Indian Scout in 2015 and 17 when I had the chance to buy one, and I say the same for the new NotSoSportsters Harley. A Yamaha Bolt looks more a Sportster that this new Nightster or SportS. We see how the range develops, but if I want HP and handling, I would buy a BMW R9T (still air-oil-cooled btw), or if I want a cruiser with Ponies I get a Ducati XDiavel, which well burn anything in its way including a Stage-20 M8 motor. As for the HP nos mentioned here, my Stage 1 2013 xl1200c does 78hp which is more then an out of the big Nightster.
started on a 87 Custom LowRider. few Lowriders, Custom Softails. Road Glide for the last one. Still kind of want a Sporster 1200 for quick runs. good review. thanks.
When I bought my sportster over there. You guys never suggested to go with softail. Lol. Just saying
Would be cool to see you guys do a homage video with riding clips for the Evo before it is completely gone for sale from the HD website.
Haha, I like that idea. We may have to do that
Love the new Nightster just have no space in garage for one now. I own a 2016 883 Iron and a 2021 Street Bob. Maybe my next bike will be a Trike.
I like the new engine not so much the bikes.the Bronx was the bike I wanted.I own a 1999 1200 Sportster S and going 90 mph down the highway isn't a problem.
17:59 American classic art. From the look, sound, and feel of the bike will forever bring people together to see and enjoy.
Harley Davidson Sportster should continue as 2 models- air-or-water/cooled. No reason to stop the traditional Sportster.
Then came Bronson made a lot of teens in my day want a Sportster. The Sportster was a Triumph and BSA killer. Then came the 750 Honda. How things have changed. I have a 2022 Electra Glide Standard. My tenth Harley-Davidson in 51 years of riding . I had a 91 883 a long time ago. I would go with the 975 if I ever bought a smaller Harley-Davidson motorcycle again.
Funny thing is my first bike at 16 was a ironhead sportster. Many many bikes later now i own a twin cam and a shovelhead. Yet i bought a iron 1200 brand new 2 yrs ago at 43yrs old because i wanted a sporty again for rippin around. I did a full exhaust tuner intake cams etc on it and love riding it. Even if you grow out of a sporty its fun to have for rippin on.
LOL, You did not watch Laidlaw UA-cam channel and where uneducated, That one made me laugh. Actually the whole reason I watch this channel is to learn, and have no problem admitting I am uneducated in a lot of topics.
You guys covered some good ground and made a bunch of excellent points. Great video and thanks for sharing this.
Right on. There was a lot of ground to cover on this one. Hopefully we hit the highlights
Leaner bike was the Street 500/750. Sportster 883 was always under powered, but the 1200 with slip-ons, intake and tune and it’s perfect for the street. 13” rear legends and some fork work it’s a perfect bike if you want a visceral experience. No need for fly by wire modes. I’ll be interested to try the Nightster at some point, maybe when the moco finishes the left side engine appearance.
Street 500/750 didn't sell because the ergos were terrible and so was the fit/finish. There's a market for starter bikes, but those weren't it. People think of the 883 as a starter bike because of the low amount of power, but honestly, the Nightster, although significantly more powerful, is an easier bike to ride. It handles better, stops better, is smoother, has the gadgets to help alleviate mistakes, has a much lower center of gravity, and is a lot lighter...teach someone to respect the throttle and I think it's a better application overall.
@@stevem4783 I agree Nightster takes the win compared to a 883 for an easier first bike.
The air cooled Evo Sportster, especially the 1200 (Roadster for sure) was a good bike that didn't feel under powered. With some suspension upgrades the bike felt a lot better out on the highway. I think the Roadster was very underappreciated
@@MattLaidlaw Still no 6th gear though. Not optimal to have your Evo out there absolutely screaming when you're doing 70-80.
@@stevem4783 I think if you’re a frequent flier of the long-distance, super-slab kind, then a Sportster is not the best tool for the job. I’ve read comments exactly like yours, but my 1200T will cruise 80 all day long. It cruises at less RPM’s than any of my older Japanese bikes and brit bikes, so my perspective is different. If I had grown up around baggers, 3600 on the tacho might annoy me, but to my standards, it’s lower rpms than I’m accustomed to. The beautiful thing about HD is there is a wide variety of models that you can choose from suite your needs.
You can still get a 6speed Baker for the pre rubber mount bikes. Looking for one to fit in my 2000 Buell X1.
I really enjoyed your videos as they feel very genuine. They don't feel like your being bias because you sell Harley. You pretty much seems to call it like it is!
That's the goal! I'm an enthusiast and a motorcycle lover first. Salesman second
Idk man about these new sportster! I ride a 2007 1200 custom and I love it and it really has no plastic besides the controls but these newer bikes just have no chrome and they just look like a plastic toy that you get out of a cereal box! Harley is starting to make more bikes these days for the RICH! And I don’t see Harley tending to guys like me that ain’t rich but just wanna ride and have a good time and not cost a arm n leg. Now Harley discontinued the sporty line so what now? What is they gonna make now that’s affordable and reasonable price or is Harley just sticking to the RUBS! Witch it definitely looks that way!
Well said 👍
Learned on a Rebel 300. Didn’t wanna wreck a Harley when learning. And even when I tried to buy a used Sporty 1200, the dealership gave me some grief about not being able to finance “used collateral.” And this was fairly recent. Within the past month. I too was romanticizing about the Sporty Iron 1200.
That sounds like a line from the dealership that was missing a lot of important details. So you qualified for a new bike but not used? Or neither? Missing context.
@@MattLaidlaw they were pushing hard for me to buy new.
I remember in 2008 When Buell came out with a new 1125 CC Liquid cooled 4 valve head overhead cam 148 HP engine..
Not everyone wants to spend a Fortune on aftermarket accessories..
If Customers still want Air Cooled Garden Tractor engines keep selling them in some Models..
You should not have to install LED lights and better brakes on a new bike .
My concern is do those bikes come where can put forward controls on them or do they stay mids
Did you guys have any issues with heat on the Nightster?
@Matt loved your videos went for my first bike with the nightster 2023 going for a clubstyle having issues finding accessories but love the bike
I bought my Road King to go BACK to simple easy to work on. I really dont like how the new engines are harder to work on. Takes the fun away!
Are they gonna be bring the sportster digital dash to the softail line up for 2023 ? Or have you heard anything about the motor company giving us a modern dash for the softail ?
It’s definitely a matter of opinion most people can’t afford big Harley Davison’s. I ride my 883 with local 16 at the speed they go. I am quite fine keeping up with them and trust me. They’re not staying slow for me. I am not a member. good video.
Bad idea
Keep the 48 around 1200 At least
They are crazy to lose the 48
I’m solidly in the anti-technology camp now.
I’m having a lot of electrical issues with my Pan America Special. I’m out of town, it’s the third time the bike hasn’t started(shop thinks it isn’t reading the fob this time) and I’ve had to take other modes of transportation. At this point I feel that I have a high performance boat anchor.
The one area I am disappointed in with my Ultra Classic’s Infotainment system, other than that I love the Ultra Classic.
I plan to keep the Ultra Classic until I can’t ride any longer, unfortunately the Pan Am is gonna have to go, it was amazing… when it would run.
I love HD, but I’d be cautious of all the electrical issues with the new bikes.
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I did ride a custom built sportster 883 for 26 yrs. Love the looks, sound and no plastic parts. I looked at the new sportster S. But that engine is not a Harley for me. I looks like a plastic toy. Same goes for the lifewire and V-rod. Unfortunately no more nice Japanese custom are made. So bought myself a nice Milwaukee 8.
Love the wet head motor,has so much power.. great presentation
I test rode an 883 for my first motorcycle, and just with my experiences of messing around a couple times on my friend's GSXR 600 and the MSF course I took, I felt like outgrew the Sportster on the test ride. Chose a Dyna Fat Bob 103 instead, based on my size and age (I was 33 when I bought it, and I'm 6'2 with a 37 inch inseam, kind of a gorilla on a tricycle situation with the Iron...). Still, the Sportster is a pretty sweet bike to ride, but as stated in the video, if you want your skills to grow faster and further, a Dyna or Softail would be a better choice. You just have to be responsible and get to know the motorcycle. The Sportster could be a good bike to get as a second bike if you're into customization.
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Good to see HD saw the writing on the wall....
I have had ironhead sportster and now I ride a 2014 883n I like the fuel injection and the diagnostic component it was very helpful when the crank position sensor went out 3rd day I had the bike. Back to the topic the "new" sportster is a sweet looking motorcycle. I just cannot get over the exhust system to me it looks like a 90 millimeters Recoiless Rifle. But that's not going to stop me from getting one. Keeping the dream alive.
Former anti-Harley guy here. I must say, the new Rev Max engine has me now looking at buying a Harley Davidson! When Harley released the Pan American I took notice, because I could see that Harley was finally starting to innovate, and most importantly it had the one feature that is a mandatory requirement to me: foot pegs right under you that allow you to stand if you see rough road or a sudden dip (low water crossing) coming up. My back requires that I be able to lift my butt off the seat. I watched this video and when I saw the rider on the Nightster standing on his pegs I was immediately interested, also the more powerful Rev Max engine, and the electronics (TFT display) are good signs.
My traditionalist brother-in-law with his 20 year old Deuce thinks the Rev Max engine looks plastic and is not a "real Harley", but for me, being a rider who has owned a Yamaha, two Kawasakis, and a Honda Gold Wing, the Nightster Special or the Pan American have me interested.
I think that the standard street bob is a great entry bike level. I find it easier to ride that the iron 883, because of the center of gravity being lower, and better response
The MSRP shouldn't be that different in the US either
That same thing happened to me I started with a 48 and grew out of it very quickly and wanted something bigger and more power and got a heritage classic 114
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Very easy to change front counter sprocket on Sportster if you want to run the interstate. Works fine. 1200 cc engine will run forever and much cheaper maintenance than the new Sportster. Very little lost on bottom end
The left side of the Nightster is cluttered as hell....huge turn off!
i hope the MOCO ups the revmax to an 1800 and puts it in a touring chassis for 2023 along with a mono shock setup.
The revmax doesn't really go into a chassis. A bike is built around it, since the motor IS the frame.
@@TH3G0ODGUY none the less, put it in a touring bike. All the more reason to update the rear suspension by using a whole different frame setup
I do agree to go to the fat Bob instead as long as they keep that bike around
i just dont like the looks of the new sportsters :( but i love my sportster 72
They should keep selling both
I work in the harley power train plant sportster is totally done most of the machines are being removed .no parts or engine been made for over a month now .
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Prior to the Nighster and Sporter S, HD couldn't compete with the new lineups from Triumph Speed twins 1200 T120 or the Indian TRX which are top notch in similar displacement, high tech modern classic motorcycles, now they can and it's great to see the company evolve and adapt. The new American engines are inspiring.
My wife owns the nighster, I ride the low rider st. The nighster is much quicker then my low rider st 117 with a stage 1! Not even a close race it just walks away from me. Its awesome bike only disappointed is the price point, we paid 15k out the door after all the fees( harley fees not dealer upcharge) it should have fully adjustable suspension at that price point.
Nightster has about the same power/weight ratio as the old Night Rod which was the fastest Harley you could get for a long time. The Sporty S is a step above that.
Andrew's experience as the Sportster being his entry into the Harley world is now gone and with the Nightster being at just under $14k AND the elimination of the softail standard for a traditional experience similar priced alternative now eliminated for 2023 will the motor company have a new entry level model moving forward? The aging fleet of street 500's for the rider school inventory is in dire need of replacement across the country, perhaps a de-tuned rev max variant is in future for 2024, your thoughts Matt?
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