Don't Get Into Large Format Photography || Opinion
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- Опубліковано 13 бер 2022
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*Until you really feel ready!
I have to agree with this stament. Its a lot diffrent shooting largeformat. I haven't shot it since school but I just got my first 4x5 now I just need a couple lens, film holders, and cloth and I'll be ready. LOL.
I'd take the leading message of this video with an ISO 1600 sized grain of salt.
I'm one of those that you might call "too fast" - I started photography as a hobby in early 2021, with an old digital SLR, then tested the waters of 35mm, then medium format, and finally in late 2021 I managed to get my hands on a Mentor Studio, a 13x18cm field/studio hybrid with a focal plane shutter. I've only taken it outside twice so far, made four exposures, and learned alot during those.
Yes, any step required me to read up on film theory and manuals, but if you're commited to shoot film in the space year 2022 (and not using a full auto program camera body) you're used to that anyway. One major advantage nowadays is that you have access to an incredible range of knowledge in text and video through the internet.
So far I've never been at a point where I felt stuck or dumbfounded in my way through the formats thanks to those ressources.
I agree. You can't learn 4x5 by shooting 35mm or medium format. Vice-versa.
You can't learn film, by shooting a digital camera on auto ISO.
You can't learn flash photography, by using continuous light.
You need to do the thing itself in order to get better at it.
I think if you are interested in large format, get an inexpensive Crown Graphic and play with it for a while. You can use it hand held and you can use it like a field camera. Find out if the slow, careful work flow is for you. I’ve never been a fast shooter. Even with a digital camera, I compose carefully and consider the best exposure (sometimes). So the slow careful nature of large format suits my working style. I shoot mostly on 8x10 now and I still get frustrated with the process. The fact that large format can be difficult and discouraging at times doesn’t mean you shouldn’t give it a shot. Just recognize that it requires an investment of time and patience many orders of magnitude beyond even medium format. I agree that you shouldn’t just jump into large format because it seems cool. You have to have a personality (or lack thereof) that is compatible with the slow, meticulous process. It also helps if you are single, wealthy and inclined to spend long hours in dark places.
A Crown Graphic
- has not all movements
- was built exactly not to slow you down. It is a reporters camera.
@@anaraluca1181 "not all movements" is not a problem for a new large format shooter. I started on a beat up speed graphic and, ten years later, I STILL shoot on a beat up speed graphic.
I was lucky enough to inherit a Century Graphic 6x9 with Graflock back. Great intro because it’s roll film, and benefits from large(r) format. Even though I have shot and processed film for 50 yrs… it’s still a new experience. Proceed with caution.
If someone asks me if they should shoot large format I just tell them to take a medium format camera and literally glue it to a tripod and develop and print everything by themselves.
If they can't manage it then large format isn't for them
this hits the nail on the head
People who are afraid of making mistakes, probably are not going to make anything interesting anyhow. Experimenting and failing is how you discover.
For not to do something because its hard, is exactly the wrong reason for not doing something. There are a lot of good reason for not doing something, but because its hard.. thats not one of them :)
Agreed but leaping in to something without reading and learning about it first means mistakes made are usually unnecessary. Read the manual , take advice from others and your error rate will be that much lower.
100% raison go to make mistake and learn more nice comment i like it sorry for mi inglish
There is no reason at all not to start with large format even without ANY previous photography experience. This is how photography started over 150 years ago without UA-cam or other Internet "assistance", find the information and enjoy!
You are so right. Unless it is fast, cheap and convenient nobody wants to bother with it anymore even though image quality goes out the window.
I agree with this despite the fact that jumped from 35mm digital/film to 4x5. Having said that I had already been shooting for 15 years and had the basics of photography and film experience... But you really have to know yourself. If you like to be slow methodical, and are not afraid to mess up (because you will), then maybe LF is for you. Also, if you aren't 100% comfortable with manual exposure, then don't even bother since that's the only option in LF. I've seen a few people get into it and take another 35mm or medium format camera with them also and they end up not shooting LF because the other camera is easier. LF isn't easy. It's a commitment and a journey. But it can teach you things that might not take the time to learn otherwise... It's not for everyone; in fact most won't enjoy it. But if you do enjoy it, you'll probably be obsessed.
Thanks for that. It sounds like he's trying to put off nubies. What for, why should he care. Let them stumble through it, thats their privilege. Putting someone off might be a mistake. Imo, people who do go toward LF, usually know what they are in for, and that's why they do it. You know, the slow heavy equipment, thats like a workout. Gizmo's that are like rubrics cube to work out. etc etc.
Btw. Digital can be as frustrating in a different way.
@@mvagusta6757 “Let them stumble through it, that’s their privilege.” …. Well said. And if someone else wants to start stumbling their way through it, I won’t discourage them… I think the point is really just to be honest with yourself about what you want going into it, and doing the research to get the right equipment. The “problem” he mentions about equipment that is not standardized/cohesive is also exactly what allows the level of control LF offers… you just have to put in the homework.
LF isn’t easy… but most sheet formats aren’t exactly easy. But they’re a lot easier, or at least a lot more fun with SLR’s. Still will make a few of your normal learning mistakes, and you don’t always get movements, but you can get much more dynamic portraiture as long as you’re willing to use your feet. In for general photography too if you don’t mind the heft.
@@brycepinson8641 👍
"You can be in Finland, where it's dark all the time" cracked me up :D
Hey nico hope you are well. I personally see medium format and large format as a “project” camera/tool. The kind where you need to prep and plan.
I see 35mm as a documenting camera. Fast paced spontaneous etc.
With everything you must learn it’s characteristics (strengths and weaknesses). When you know what you want to achieve with your photography then your will know what kind of tool you need.
I love 4x5. I got into it during the pandemic. But being a serious photographer since 2007 I felt like it was time.
I didn't know what to think about the title, but hell yes! That is one heck of a sound advice! Learn people! Don't start doing things because it is so cool. Photography is a profession, it takes time and a lot of effort to get this under your belt! Trust me I've been there!
My first camera was a Zenith C 35mm camera ,my second camera was a Speed Graphic when I was 16. I have had a darkroom since I was 13, and still do.
I have just bought a MPP Micropress with a Schneider 135mm 4.7 lens and I am 76. It will be my last camera.
I use Fomapan 200 in it.
I shoot it at eyelevel like the press camera that it is. No tripod.
£1 a sheet of film. Love it.
I made the leap into large format 4 months ago, and I've never taken out the camera out of the house yet (well, except for into the backyard). I shoot about 2 sheets a week of just ordinary household objects, but the goal is to practice, to slow myself down, get familiar with the process, and build muscle memory. I was worried that I would get burnt out by it by now, but I still really enjoy the process of using it, and I'm slowly building myself up to taking it out in the field. LF puts you in a different mindset, so I agree, the workflow is different and there's so much room for human error at each and every step.
But I'm not sure if anyone ever feels truly "ready" to jump into something new that they've never tried before. I know that I didn't feel ready at all when I got my LF camera, and the tedious process of collecting all the equipment I needed made me question if all this work just to attain a LF camera was even worth it. But if you've done the background research and know what you're getting into and are willing to put in the time and commitment to learn, then I'd say anyone can get into large format, whether it be directly from 35mm or even digital.
I admit when I got into it years ago and sent my film to a lab only to get back nothing, that really made me not want to shoot it, but now after learning more about exposure and getting comfortable with 35mm and 120, I have gotten comfortable with getting back into 4x5. Luckily I kept all the film I bought back then in my deep freezer so I have plenty to learn on.
Totally agree, great reminder and warning, because even if some cameras look cheap, and even if some photographers get amazing results, it often hides the huge mountain you have to climb before enjoying shooting large format.
It took me years before making the jump from medium format, but having the opportunity to borrow a large format camera from a friend was the trigger to finally get into it, and I'm totally enjoying it for 2 years now. But it does require much more commitment than one can think before trying it out, it's time consuming, it's discipline, it's slow learning, it's frustrating, but can also be so rewarding.
the fact of playing with the 4x5 format gives me an enjoyment of extreme preparation editing the film in the suppurt of preparing my camera bag thinking of everything and visualizing the shot that I am going to take makes me very zen it strongly replaces the prozac have a good shot everyone
This specific opinion piece resonates with a lot of photogs. It took me two years after using 35mm to get into medium format. I am in awe of photographers who are into large format. Deep respect.
As a student currently learning on 4x5 after I’ve learnt on digital. I would say that even film is a must try for any serious new photographer. Especially 4x5 it teaches you so many important things about photography that get lost as digital assistance tech gets better.
Good advice! I didn't start using medium format until I had been photographing for at least a decade and the only reason why because it was for an assignment in college. Then used medium format for another decade. I only started looking at 4x5 because I was doing a lot of night photography, using a tripod on the regular (I had always hated using tripods), got my first 4x5, and pretty much ruined half a box of Ektar and only ended up with like one somewhat decent photo from the other half. Upgraded that 4x5 (it was a 1st get Intrepid) to a Wista, worked on loading the holders, and bought a box of FP4 and got to work. I'd take the 4x5 everyday on my drive to work, started making photos in the morning and coming home in the evening. Got better results, slowly went back to the color, and then I started getting the itch for 8x10 (Soth, Shore, Sternfeld influencing me). Finally got the 8x10 during 2020. By then I had been using 4x5 for 3 years, almost on a daily basis, so the only hurdle for 8x10 was the cost; more expensive film, film holders, etc. Large format however, gets into your blood and a lot of times I'll thing of an idea I want to work on, and I immediately want to use 8x10, it's hard to go back to 120, and really difficult to go back to 35mm!
Beside having bigger negatives, another advantage of shooting LF is having access to tilt/shift/rise/etc movements which allows you to adjust/correct your perspective in camera with greater degree (like for architecture shoots) which are not common in 35mm or 120 cameras (unless using a tilt-shift lens or custom body like FlexyBody).
Overall, I'm agree with this video, though. Shooting LF means zero automation, which assume you already know the basics, and how to setup your camera properly. It also means shooting with specific plan in mind (like doing a personal project), because you can only carry 5 or 6 holders. Not so many frame to shoot, eh? And since tripod is your friend (unless you want to do documentary portraits like Louis Mendes), that means you can't easily move from here to there.
If you are unsure what to shoot, a 120 or 35mm camera is way much easier. I guess it's also depends of your shooting style, though. Even when shooting with a TLR, I tend to bit slower. Rarely interested in capturing the "decisive moments".
From the perspective of using a view camera since the mid-1980's to this day, much of what was mentioned in this video is correct and much has not been discussed. This is based on decades of using a view camera for images from portraits, still life studio, group portraits, architectural interior/exterior, weddings (yes, weddings) and more with color transparency and negative film and B&W film. Many thousands of sheets burned and countless hours behind the ground glass.. What most folks that dive into this sheet films stuff today is the discipline, skill, knowledge, creativity and dedication this LF view camera stuff demands and requires. To do LF sheet film images good and proper is a very serious undertaking. Sure, plenty of folks should "dive-in" to get this sheet film view camera experience. It is likely after a decade most would have stopped or moved on to something else.. One of the great walls with learning how to view camera today is hands-on education and instruction by others that have spent much of their life behind the view camera ground glass making images. Sure there are plenty of UA-cam and various "how to" on the web, except none of these are going to be the same as real time, real life experience with instructor with decades of real world experience behind the ground glass.
There are plenty of foto folks that do fotography for the gear experience aspect or just to try out something different. There is indeed plenty of LF view camera "gear" and alternative process to try out. At some point all the gear and alternative process will get tried and used up leaving the gear or alternative process image maker empty.. What this foto stuff is much about is creative expression to result in images that produce emotional meaning that can endure the test of time.. Any sheet film view camera is not much more than another tool as a means to an end.. Identical holds true and correct for any film or digital camera..
So why view camera.. The two great offerings a proper view camera offers is camera movement and ability to accommodate lenses/optics.. Too many new to this LF view camera stuff focus on the camera when the camera is far down the list of priorities for making sheet film images. Too many new to view camera never lean the full capabilities and what camera movements offer in focus control and much more. This is an exclusive feature that the better view cameras offer (typically a GOOD modular monorail, not flat bed field folder). Upon ownership of their first lightweight field folder often comes at some point the discovery and harsh lesson of why some sense simply will not work with their camera of choice.. Add to this the limited ability and skills-experience of using camera movements. These to discovery are extremely common today among folks new to this view camera stuff, often due to those new to view camera carrying on their previous lens fixed to a box roll film or digital camera.. These habits and ways don't simply go away upon their first try with any view camera, those previous expectations and habits are often carry forward for the new to view camera individual to discover this view camera stuff is much a different world than roll film or digital in too many ways.
Back in a different era of time, much of this would have been nipped in the bud by a highly experienced view camera user that could do much guidance to prevent these less than pleasant discoveries. Bottom line, what is presented in this video is a GOOD summary of the realities of doing this view camera stuff, it is FAR more involved than most could predict or expect and it is wise to do as much prep and foundation work before venturing into this universe of LF sheet film view camera.. Yet, when done proper, the rewards are extremely deep and remarkable in extreme ways..
I found this video and comments interesting. I could not say if one approach is right or wrong, I can only relate my own experience having served an apprenticeship (City & Guilds) as an industrial and commercial photographer over 40 years ago. Whilst attending college, we were not permitted to use anything other than a 5x4 monorail for pretty much the first year (five year apprenticeship). Once we had a grasp of optics, Scheimpflug, photo-chemistry etc., we were "allowed" to progress to roll film cameras with which in-camera corrections are restricted. Initially, everything was done in black & white and prints had to be deemed technically perfect (contrast, exposure, grade, spotted and un-cropped) before being judged on composition or subject matter. This does not necessarily make better photographers but possibly better informed.
I completely agree. Take your time and advance when you're ready. There are so many steps to get successful results with large format.
I enjoy large format but I find myself shooting mostly medium format. The main reason is ease of use.
Large format is not for the impatient. But, it can certainly teach you self discipline.
Been shooting as an amateur for 20 years now. I own crop factor sensor only because I like bird photography and the reach, auto focus and speed does it for me. But now I am increasingly looking at landscape and a technical body with a 6x9 back and scanning by camera shooting 1:1 and stitching those images together really intrigues me….
Large format is fantastic! It slows you down which allows one to truly concentrate on the subject. Furthermore, nothing can compare in sharpness to 8x10 contact print.
Just pick the appropriate subject.
Great video! Lots of truth. I have been shooting 35mm, medium format and large format. There are lots of things to think about, the cost of the equipment, costs of film, lots of slowed down and methodical work in shooting. There are also things to think about such as developing, special tanks which are not cheap. There are also the issues with scanning, most flat bed scanners will not scan 4x5. One will need the Epson V800 and V850 scanners to achieve this and they are in the hundreds of dollars, sending out 4x5 for scanning is very expensive. Then there are the costs of printing, 4x5 enlargers are another situation. Honestly, one must consider what are they trying to achieve and what will the final output be. Medium format will provide more than enough resolution for most scanning and printing needs.
If one is printing up to 8x10 35mm is enough and medium format is more than enough to accomplish this.
And finally, does one have the time to do large format photography? It takes a lot of time to lug out the equipment and set up and take down.
For someone of my era who spent 20÷ years shooting LF for advertising clients in circumstances where any error or coc*up was a complete no no its fascinating to hear and read others viewpoint on the challenge. Okay, we used polaroid backs and bracketed exposure or push pull processing after having a test sheet or 6x9 test roll processed, but it was almost always EPN or (6122?) 100ASA transparency film one was shooting. Processing monochrome would mean maybe 30 sheets at a time in 5ltr deep tanks and printing might be 30 7x5in press release shot prints processed in one action sequence in the print trays.. before the days of roller transport processors. After the years of performing at that level under pressure it's ingrained in muscle and mental memory.. such that one feels it would be no challenge to pick it up and do it again, even after a break of around 25 years. Golden days. Bring it on.. 😉
Hello and thank you for this presentation. As a photojournalist since 1973, I knew once I started shooting 6x9 film, with the rangefinder, Fujica G690, I was satisfied, finally with image rendition. I did look at, from a distance, a 5x7 view camera and said, no, I'm satisfied. Peace from NYC
Totally agree. I was getting great results on 35mm when I moved to roll film. Took me a while to adapt to the square format. Went for 4x5 and never really got comfortable, some good results but not the success rate of 120 or 35. Stupidly I then went to 8x10! Never conquered the format. Had a good think and realised, for me, 120 was perfect. I don’t print larger than 16x16 and 120 has more than enough detail for that. So, agree totally! Good opinion video.
Thanks Nico.
Oh how timely your ‘opinion’ as yesterday I messed up some recent shots and got very frustrated!
But then when all the stars align… it is special enough to be hugely rewarding… for me!
The only downside to large format is the entry level required to avoid waste of expensive film. If you know how to properly expose film using a meter, and can focus with a fresnel properly, then you won't screw up and waste money with large format.
I normally agree 100% Nico but on this I think you are only half right. If someone sells up their 35mm and or medium format gear to try and shoot only large format then they will probably get frustrated and give up at the first difficulty. I agree totally, but frankly anybody who makes a move like that without trying it first needs a reality check. I've been a pro photographer most of my life on 35mm and 120 roll film ... and Large format has taxed even me in the couple of years I've been doing it. However I have my other formats to fall back on.
I think this is an are where the large format community needs to come together and provide help and encouragement to newbies ... with more clubs and participation days etc. By the way I'm back in Finland in May ... it's very much my second home, especially Tampere :-) It's a great photo destination too.
Great advice. I jumped into 35mm and 120 and held off on large format for like a year? And then jumped in when I saw the possibility of using the Lomo graflok back for my brother's wedding (though I didn't receive it in time alas and shot 4 sheets of film instead) . I'd have held off longer otherwise and am still taking it very slow.
I adore film because of how much experimentation you can do with so many different formats and cameras. Large format provides so many neat options too with like ancient lenses and roll film adapters and etc etc but it really is hard to prep for and actually use so as you said I'm taking it slow. Looking forward to get into developing some sheets myself soon.
Another problem with large format is subjects. My family gets annoyed at me taking 120 photos of them especially if it's on like an older folder with fiddly shutter blah blah. Having anyone sit still long enough for large format is tough lol
need to make the time and energy to actually lug it around outside
I jumped into 4x5 probably 7 years ago, and I made every mistake in the book. I'm pretty stubborn though so that's how I learned. I have an interesting system now that I have learned to develop E6 film 4 sheets at a time: I sometimes go out in the morning, take four shots, go home and develop, and get the transparencies on my light table the same day. It feels almost like super high quality instant film/polaroids. :D
I went from 1.6mp digital to 4x5. THEN I backed up into medium format. Love them both!
You totaly made sence : "D'ont do that until you know how to do that..." .You are ready to be sponsored by Squarespace ! GG
I do make little sense sometimes. But not cool enough for squarespace.
Great counsel. I have made all the mistakes you mentioned. It takes time to learn large format. The effort is worth it. Great counsel.
I am in that last group…I have been doing (camera collecting) film photography since the 1980s. After the baby pause (no darkroom etc) I‘ve been full in since 2008. I have changing bag, a bulk film loader. I develop with. Paterson tank in my bathroom and I scan my negs. Back in 1986 I bought a 4x5 Speed Graphic with a roll Gil back. I shot 2 or four sheets of of which only one really worked. After ceremoniously shooting 2 rolls the camera sat dormant for about 10 years. When I discovered Harman positives were a possibility I jumped in…but figuring the paper speed and pre-flashing to mellow the contrast turned out to be quite the task. Another caveat is direct positives are horizontally reversed. Given the cost of the paper was more than film..I decided film was easier. (and it is …FWIW) I have the 4x5 Stearman tank and while the first exposures were rewarding ..size matters etc there were light bars across my skies. The plastic in the carrier were sticking to the negatives.. Apparently less than 5 % of users have this problem. I have tried most everything..to no avail. Now after 50 sheets ..I have fewer than 10 that I find acceptable. Loading cassettes in a changing bag is really claustrophobic ergo the tank. I have an insert to the Paterson tankthat will do two sheets. I really need to develop a work flow that well… flows . I have lost interest since a year….but glutton for PUNISHMENT that I am…I bought a box of film and I will have another go at it.
Pleased don’t under estimate how much attention patience, learning curve etc that this requires. My MF work with vintage folders and TLRs also requires this…but not to the degree required for 4x5…especially with no darkroom
Heed this advice
Caveat Emptor
Several good points Niko. And they guys you mentioned are super knowledgeable and one can learn much from them. It's a great community of photographers that are willing to share a great deal of info. The question is, are you willing to take the time and make the mistakes, etc. As you said, it can get expensive. Digital, well you get a lifetime supply of film so to speak with the camera when you buy it. Film just keeps going up in price and becoming shorter in availability. But, if you really commit to it, it's great.
It takes time… as you said in the video. Invest the time in learning about large format… it will help you learn whether it’s right for you. It’s an investment in time and effort, but the rewards can be worthwhile.
I've ended my relationship with 4x5 at least 4 times. I've loved using it for nearly 40 years and have the necessary skills, but it never gets used enough and when it's not been used for a whole year, I sell it off. That's not just the cameras and lenses, it's the film holders, dark cloth, loupe, Lee filter adapters, two Jobo 3010s. It's not cost so much as somebody gifted me a Technika and somebody upgraded a Technika as part of an inheritance.. Last time I withdrew, I decided that 120 was my thing and bought a 6x17 Ebony and 5x7 lenses and am happy. However, I keep seeing these tintypes, platinum palladiums and wet collodions and think "I'd love to do that, they're beautiful". So, I've just added a Technika 2000 and a Jobo 3010 and I just know I'm on a roundabout ..... :-(
Ahaha I know how that can be. FYI the technikas maybe aren’t the best for collodion as it’ll eat away at the metal. Also if you haven’t tried a 4x5 SLR, it’s worth taking one for a test drive. Might match your shooting style more. Particularly the folding variety.
this is why i keep integral gear, regardless of how broke i am, because I know I will always have it, and prices of gear will only continue to rise more and more these days. i've narrrowed down to just my leica, my rb67 and my jobo w/tanks, and hewes stainless tanks for b/w. never will need anything else
@@chronicconja420 That’s a great place to be. I just sold my Ebony for a LOT of money and bought a Leica, which I vowed never to do again. I’ve owned Leica M and S cameras since 1982 and overall they’ve not cost me a penny, even after selling the S kit at a loss.
To make photographs with 4x5 you need passion and knowledge. This format takes time. 4x5 needs discipline and is very slow. It is an art and for this reason I love it. I agree that this is not for everyone. The same that not every one has the passion to be a scientist or an artist.
Totally Agree... I shot 4x5 50 yrs ago using a Calumet studio rail camera and recently after many yrs of shooting digital and getting "bored" with it I decided to go back to film I first pulled out my Mamiya RB67 120 as well as the Calumet. I shot the calumet after a lot of refresher research (UA-cam channels like yours helped, Thank you!) develop my own film and love it! I am like a kid in a candy store, but I have made some mistakes, and it can be expensive. I recently purchased a 4x5 field camer (Wisner). All that being said I feel I have taken my time and did my research and studying etc. It has been worth it for me but it does take time, and you must take the time. Thanks for all your videos. Great stuff!
I shot film years ago, medium format with my Mamiya 645, and thought I was ready. I wanted a field camera , but they were expensive ,for a beginner to large format. Being impatient and not wanting to take my time and save up for the camera I really wanted, I purchased a Calumet monorail camera.
The camera did help me learn what was involved in large format, but it's not easily transportable. So it has been idle for a few months and I am selling it . I did buy an Intreppid 4x5, and am happy now. It is easy to carry with me, and easy to use. You are correct when you say, think about what you want , and learn all you can before you buy. Another warning, take your time and shoot one or two sheets of film for any one set up. If you're the type that likes to bracket pics, or shoot multiple frames of the same scene, then you at not ready. For those of you who are, you will enjoy the process, and will amaze yourself with the quality of work. Good luck , and , Film Forever!!
I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't turn the slide, so then you have to developer a unexposed sheet, but a do photo paper negatives, and pinhole 8x10 pinhole
I gave up on large format a couple month before this video appeared. He's right about the discipline. Mine is deficient and I just couldn't take the frustration and aggravation of finding every one of the endless errors, one at a time. But I didn't go all the way - I sold the camera and tripod (a Cambo Legend and heavy duty Bogen that came to over 20 lbs to carry) and kept the rest of the extended ecostructure. Someday, something lighter and more suited to the field will come along and it will be the right time.
The problem is that most people have never heard the term "covering power " . This basically dictates that you can use lenses designed for a particular format on a smaller format than what it is designed for and it will work , but the angle of view is less than the format designed for . An example which is easy to follow , is that of full frame lens or 35mm film design lens on a crop format the effect of the focal length is increased by 60% , giving a narrower field of view. So if you are using a view camera and shooting across all 3 neg sizes , ( 4X5 ; 5X7 and 8X10 ), , you cannot use a 4X5 designed lens on 5X7 or 8X10 , You can however , use a lens designed for 8X10 on all three of the formats . In the same way that you cannot use a crop designed lens for full format or 6X7.
I have used large format for 50+ years and still love using it. I also use the Canon 5dsr when I need to. Know your equipment and how to use them. Digital film is cheap and great to experiment with.
I agree, I am staying my hand from going into the rabbit hole of LF. However, I was one of those that jumped into MF almost into three months of re-starting my film photography journey, and it was the best thing I did, I loved it! It really depends on the person I guess, but good advice.
Give in to the dark side Cerita 😈. 8x10 slide film!
@@CertainExposures 😂😂😂 You enabler! Thank you for the encouragement. I keep looking at LF cameras but I seem more drawn to 5X7 but not as popular it seems 🙂
@@ceritat625 yes, I've been looking around for affordable 5x7 cameras because 4x5 contact prints are too small! Good luck with your search. Don't let Nico scare you _too_ much 😉
I'm over 60 and sit in a wheelchair. Large format is exactly the speed I can muster. I recently bought a Compur electronic 5FS shutter, because it can do long times up to 32 seconds, and the shutter speeds I use are more often than not well over 10 sec. I love it slow.
I've just returned to Large Format after 2 decades, and It's been great. I didn't realize how much I missed it.
I agree on pretty much most of your points. I will say that learning on a sheet film 2¼ x 3¼ speed graphic prepares you pretty well for 4x5 or larger, because all the darkslide nonsense and remembering your shutter settings and aperture and everything, you’ll learn the hard way to get into the rhythm. Even then you’ll occasionally mess up, and ruin a frame or a roll. But I’m a pretty unconventional LF shooter, as I shoot Graflex SLR’s, which you loose out on movements, but you gain considerable mobility. If you do want to start in LF without really using movements pr other things most people consider important in LF, the old press Anschutz type folders, and the various SLR’s give you that added image quality, mobility, and ease of composition that many desire from a larger negative.
Completely agree. The switch from 35mm film to medium format film is minor compared to the switch from medium format to large. Most medium format cameras function in a way that is close to 35mm cameras. Messing up 1 or 2 shots out of 12 or 16 isn't nearly as painful as messing up potentially the ONLY large format shot from a day.
Great advice, and I don’t think you even mentioned the printing, and the enlarger ?
I bought my 4x5 camera from a photographer that previously used it with a polaroid back at fairs and the like for those old timey shoots. You know the kind where they have western gear for the participants to wear and look like they are in the 1800s. Anyways he always used flash. So I get this camera and I go to the local to me camera store and I'm standing in front of the 4x5 film and an employee walks up and asks if he can help. I explain that I just got a 4x5 camera and I'm trying to decide on what film to purchase first. His advice was to buy the 400 speed film since you could shoot more without having to slow the shutter speed. Sounded like great advice. Get the film home, figure out how to load it, put it in the camera, take it to my back yard and try to find something to aim the camera at. Then I look at my exposure. My lens's fastest shutter speed was 1/160th of a second. With 400 speed film in broad daylight I'd have to stop the lens down as far as it would go to get anything that wasn't totally overexposed at 1/160th. Lesson learned, get film that matches your lens instead of trying to make your lens match your film.
That makes total sense to me. However sometimes you do just have to jump in and learn to swim.
Nico , I saw your video were you bought a Lemon, it happens to be a SINAR. I have on but I need help. Would you show us how to remove the rear and front standards from the base that goes to the monorail. I need help. I bought the base that go to the standards but it comes with the standard already assemble. I need only the base since my SINAR camera is brand new, I bought it 25 years ago but never used it. I see the manual but it does not make sense. Please help. Thanks.
I’m still considering large format but I dipped my toes into 4x5 by trying the Ilford Pinhole box. I made all the mistakes I could but I understand the process better.
I just discovered your channel with this video. I love your presentation style. You make some excellent points. As I expected, there were also some excellent counterpoints made in the comments section. I often like to say that "context is king". I began my journey in photography back in the mid 1980s. There have been a number of breaks in that path, and I've recently reengaged with this particular passion.
I'm curious, how much of the decision about the title of this video is based on the notion that a bit of controversy in the title drives views on UA-cam? I suspect that a more nuanced title might have been "Reasons Not To Get Into Large Format Photography". However, I also suspect that would have been a bit more boring and less likely to drive views to your channel.
Regardless, I think the points you laid out are things that anyone considering large format should very strongly consider. I shot a Toyo 4x5 once in a while, many moons ago (I got it really cheaply back then).
Thank you for a well done presentation.
I would argue even further, don’t get into medium format. I wanted a medium format camera for a long time but as time passes, I am realizing its simply not for me. I shoot bnw street 99% of the time. I need fast lenses, high iso film and a camera that I can take every where. While the thought of getting into formats larger than 135 is always there, its simply not for me and not for many people
When I was in the military and I went to photography school we started with 4 x 5 and then work down to 35 mm. Also worked with Ariel film and 16 mm movies.
Shout-out to anyone who eats cookies while loading their large format film :D
I abstained from 4x5 for decades (literally), because I didn't want all the complications it brings with it, the costs, the weight, the bulk. Then I got into pinhole photography, where bigger *is* better, and digital won't do. Enter the Intrepid 4x5 - which I would not recommend, because it has lots of quirks that are sometimes very hard to understand and to fix (I'm still using it, because I tweaked it in many places to my needs; the lack of wide-angle bellows still is a problem). Turns out that 4x5 is actually fun! I already have bought real lenses, but they need mounting on boards (and I didn't have the time to do so, they have to wait a bit longer).
Just purchased 2 beautiful Fasqual & Co 8 x 10 French handmade boutique cameras. Yes 2!! Large format taught me a lot about photography. ❤
After a year of shooting 35mm I got a medium format camera. And I’m nowhere near as comfortable with that camera yet as I am with my 35mm cameras. Big learning curves take time
OK, thanks for asking, but I have already thought about it and I agree it's a NO.
I had some very limited experience in 4x5 taking photo classes in the 80s (yes, 40 years ago), and though I enjoyed the capability to tweak the perspective using the bellows, I think it it is really, really not for me. Maybe this is a European (think VW beetle car) vs American perspective (Humer SUV) thing, but... I do not even enjoy reflex cameras that much: too big, too heavy, cumbersome. My favorite cameras are rangefinders and P&S, with my all time favorites being the Oly XA line. You can't be further from large format. Because of laziness, I seldomly use my medium formats (Kiev 88, Pentacon 6TL): too bulky and heavy. What I enjoy most is carrying 3 cameras at the same time, loaded with B&W, C41 and E6, to handle all subjects and light conditions: this imply of course _small_ and _light_ cameras that can fit in my pockets. I see large format either as landscape cameras (think Stephen Shore etc) or studio/strobist studio still life (and my flat is too small for that). I cannot even remember the last time I used a tripod, or even my monopod. (And don't get me wrong: at 55 years, I am also too old for being a hipster "shooting from the hip".)
Though I respect and can enjoy it in books or exhibitions, this is not the king of shooting situation I can see myself enjoying. I guess I am the anti-Ansel Adams/f64 group type of photographer. My goal is not to make lovely and technically perfect shots to decorate my dentist waiting room.
Plus, as you said, it is just super expensive.
We know what happens when we tell people not to do something. :) Well played 👏👏👏
I started into film photography 64 years ago. For reasons of financial limits, educational and professional distractions, my devotions tapered off from 1966 to 1976, after which I fully returned to the hobby. I was 35mm only until around 1982, then started exploring medium format, including an extended usage of a medium format view camera. Thereafter, I considered large format a few times, but never took the plunge. I had experienced the fussy slowness of the MF view camera as well as the more than sufficient quality I could get from 120 roll film. From that experience, I would recommend that anyone who is considering jumping up to large format, first do the following. Shoot 35mm on an SLR with a few basic lenses, primes, not zooms, for at least one year. At the same time, start reading through the Ansel Adams technical book series, mastering all of volumes 1 and 2 at minimum, plus Vol. 3 if you plan to process your own film. If you complete these tasks, can honestly say that you "get it", and you still want to do large format, then go for it. Short of completing this education, forget it.
im one of the dudes that goes smaller rather than bigger
i started with a full format 35mm
now i bought a Olympus pen ft half frame
and honestly its awesome it still has more than enough resolution in my opinion and 72 shots a roll is amazing makes film basically dirt cheap once again
This is soooo true. I've shot and developed 35mm and 120 for years. I thought I was ready for large format... I'm not. I'm sat next to a monorail I've taken two shots with... (is this what AA meetings are like?)
All that you're saying there is so true! I had my Chamonix most of the time in the closet... maybe a good idea could be to begin with a camera like Harman Titan, easy to use with beautiful results and still being 4x5...
Totally agree. Nice talk for beginners in film
Very interesting take on camera formats and which ones people should try out, my first camera was a Brownie from GoodWill more or less to me it was a point and shoot. My father had an Argus which he would not let me touch, I'm very glad about that. I would go to my local camera shop to get the right film the funny thing is I don't recall the story owner saying Oh you need a 120. He did show me how to load the film which was color then I remember shooting twice and forgetting to turn to the next frame I still have that image today... well over 30 years now. I enjoy your points and yet some people will love large format the first time that shoot, others will not. I enjoy 120, 35, and 4x5 each one can be a work of art or crap. Yet each one can be a pain too, for a while I shot digital, and like so many who have gone back to film it's because the film has a "soul" to the image you capture if you're lucky... Again thank you for taking the time to make very good content.
I learned to shoot with a Rolleicord and a Speed Graphic 25 years ago. Digital cameras are simply impossible for me to shoot with, and 35mm is more difficult for me to focus and frame. I enjoy the entire process which is really similar to running professional microfiche and diazo image processes, which was my first civilian job.
I started film with a hasselblad but I’ve always looked at LF as too daunting, too cumbersome to carry around, extremely slow, you gotta spend a ton of time for preparing the holders indeed and it adds up in weight, and it adds up with the bills, BUT Large Format is the ultimate way of photography.
All the greats used LF and produced memorable images with it, whether it being 8x10, 4x5, 5x7 or 9x12.
My hero of photography is Josef Sudek for the most part, the second part is Leonard Misonne, and both my heroes used Large Format to make the images they made.
With that being said, at their time, there wasnt really any other option except for snap shot medium format cameras, too limiting for producing personal visions, too standard for developing artistic visions, which I understand, and really, medium format wasn’t really a thing in the artistic world of photography except for commercial stuff.
Michael Kenna is who brought back this idea of shooting film in a massive manner, and everybody jumped into medium format recently because of his work, but truthfully, I don’t see Kennas work being more important than what the pictorialists and early photographers did and because of it it’s been creeping into me for a long time now but I still can’t make the jump and I don’t think I will ever make the jump into LF for the reasons spoken above, but if one does it, and gives it all then I believe you can learn way more about photography doing LF than any other format. I wish I could handle it but it’s too much for me and where I live LF doesn’t make the cut.
LF ain’t for the weak, and honestly when you see that Sudek only had one shoulder and one arm to carry a huge wooden tripod and an 8x10, not just that but also producing the images he made, you’re humbled really, and for the life of you you cannot possibly say « I don’t recommend LF ». No, LF is photography itself, if it wasn’t for it there would have been no photography at all actually, not as we know and love it for anyways, either it being for Roger Fenton, Stieglitz, Steichen, Coburn, Kuhn, Misonne, Sudek, Brandt and all these giants that actually made Kenna, but if you’re weak about photography at any one point, then LF is not for you that’s what it is. I’m not ashamed to say I’m weak about my photography because it’s the truth, not that I’m lazy but it’s also got to do with the way the world looks these days with all the modernity and excess urbanism, which I find ugly and not interesting in terms of photography, so I gotta move far quite often in order to find something to shoot.
Kenna uses medium format only for the sake of his style of photography, which is going around the world to many different locations and that wouldn’t be practical with LF.
If you’re not much of a traveler LF should be your goal and the thing you do actually, but if you move a lot to shoot landscapes then MF is the way to go, just like if what you’re into is street photography, you’re better off using something discreet, small and that can take a ton of pictures quickly, isn’t it ?
So there it is, every format of photography actually suits a purpose for a particular type of photographer and photography, it’s got nothing to do with convenience to be honest, it’s got more to do with the person itself and the images you’re trying to make.
LF is pretty much an all purpose camera, it gives you more options, but it’s meant for a more sedentary type of photographer, someone who’s mastered photography, someone who enjoys still lives, portraits, who do landscape but in a very peculiar place, who looks at small things and details, so it’s made for someone extremely patient. Medium format is made for someone patient enough, and 35 for a quick snapper but each and every format can do the job really, I’ve seen some great landscapes on 35mm, same for portraits or details with a medium format so all in all it’s a personal choice but the mistake is to try and do it all, you can’t.
Pick one thing according to what you like to image and go master it.
Another problem: LF cameras attract too much attention. Every time I set it up I have to have all these conversations with random people about my "old camera" (it's an Intrepid.) And reactions can range from positive, to neutral curiosity, to negative with people covering their faces or scowling or asking what's my business. I know this can be an issue with any format but you're kind of a sitting duck with the big camera.
Great video.
About 5 years ago, I thought I wanted to get into LF. I couldn't find the 5x7 cameras I really wanted and was unsure about lens boards so I decided to start with 4x5 press cameras. I figured I'd get a "whole kit" and that would be a less expensive entry. As I am want to do, especially when overseas where I buy stuff I won't see for months, I bought three cameras, including a Speed Graphic and Meridien that was apparently owned by a pro (big travel case with lots of stickers and a Pan Am carry-on tag). I had lots of lenses and even 20+ 4x5 film holders for very little money. In playing with one if the film holders, I discovered it was loaded - I quit playing. I didn't have time to do much and then some major work and life events interfered. They are in storage, untouched, and hopefully not succumbing to fungus. My goal was, and remains, to take 4x5 portraits of my parents. Maybe on my next trip home I will try, but I suspect, as you point out, I'm really not ready yet.
You should take their photo anyways. They arent getting any younger.
Excellent advice. It is particularly concerning to see folks who are using last generation MF with built in meters, auto film advance. etc. and think they have "mastered" film. Anyone contemplating LF should get a TLR or ruby window folder with a hand held meter. After running 100 rolls thru that and consistently getting good results, you can think about going LF. Even then. my foray into 4x5 quickly disabused me of any notion of ever getting an 8x10.
That's good advice
How about if you get a 4x5 and aren't ready get a 120mm roll back for it? Problem solved.
I agree with the general sentiment, Nicos. Photography is a process. The least complex is digital. The most complex is large format plates. If you don't love the process, stick with what you really enjoy about photography, whichever medium you use (digital or film or plates). You make mistakes and learn, the more manual the process you follow, and that gets expensive. (You think a sheet of exposed wasted film is expensive, wait till you've dropped a 11x24 plate with chemical on it.) But there's nothing like looking at that 4x5 neg or chrome and seeing the reward or learning from the mistakes. The most important thing any film photographer can do is keep a log book and take notes of every shot. This is especially important with large format. That's how you learn. Thanks, Nicos. I always enjoy the show.
“Large format kinda has this non-standard thing”
Me: “Nuh uh! You got front and rear standards! “🌝
I say the same thing when people tell me they are "thinking" about getting a dog.
The amount of very usable information you get on 35mm should not be underrated - with a quality scanning/enlarging setup, a sharp lens, and good technique, you can very easily make prints upwards of 20x30" with noticeable but pleasant grain. I personally love the look of the grain when a 35mm frame is enlarged for prints, that's one of my main attractions to shooting film over digital, and it's why I never really saw the need to move to MF in my own work, let alone LF.
I love large format mainly because I can do archaic things: wet plate, dry plate, calotype. I have shoot much more these grandfathers of film in large format than film. And then you could do contact prints with salt, cyanotype or kallitype. That, my friends, is unsurpassable... when it works!
Best way to learn and experience large format. Take a true traditional photography course that teaches large format photography from A to Z. From different types of large format cameras, studio photography, field photography, manual exposure, darkroom work and mounting & framing prints.
I think it's good advice not to rush into LF without considering and weighing consequences such as expenses and being relatively inflexible. As to myself, I'm in my second and, as I think, lasting LF-phase. My first encounter with LF was in a program at Amsterdam photo academy in 2010 to 2012. After two years I sold the gear, assuming I could do everything I needed and wanted with a full frame digital camera. This turned out to be wrong soon.
About three years later I returned, purchasing a used 6x9 Linhof Technikardan with two lenses 58 and 120mm. I enjoyed the gear very much, 120 film for it was relatively inexpensive, but after two more years, I decided to go back to "real" large format, which means 4x5" (never had the urge to try larger). The Technikardan went on to a new home the moment I was able to get hold of a wonderful, mint condition Master Technika from a Dutch artist who had decided she'd mix her own emulsions and use tintype and glass plates with an 8x10" and uncoated lenses.
I have never looked back, enjoying the Linhof a few times every week. It is paired with a 150mm lens, which can remain attached inside the camera when it's folded. It's a meditative process that needs continuous mindful attention, which is exactly what I've come to love in photography..
My Father was an artist and he taught me until I got a degree in Photography. Now I am just starting in the larger format. But I have experience around the horn. I love the idea because I can relax if I plan everything out. I will hike back into the mountains of Tennessee where I know streams covered in thick green moss. As if an Emerald Forrest. Where I can slow the shutter speed to milk the rapidly moving water. With rich browns and large smooth rocks. I also plan to fly to Texas to photograph the USS Lexington CVT-16 in Corpus Christi. An Aircraft Carrier I served aboard from 74-77.
My first analog camera was a 8x10 and I think it’s the easiest analog camera to use
Its a beauty to use and learn, if one has they discipline.
Watching Ben Horne and Nick Carver videos are deceiving since they are so good at it. When asked, my recommendation is to read Steve Simmons' book "Using the View Camera". If after that, LF is still appealing, then go for it.
Having been raised by someone who bogs me down for any mistake I make I think I'm ready
Some people go to LF and it doesn’t match the way they want to shoot. You must want to work slowly and methodically. This interferes with some folks vision. There is a LOT of LF burnout.
WEll said Nico! I understand what you mean., in other words graduate from your medium format camera before jumping to large format.
Yes it is love / hate relationship with film. Love shooting film, hate paying for it.
What started me on large format was Polaroid film especially type 55... I borrowed a friend's Speed Graphic after 30 years of 35mm and 120 ... I really enjoyed it and ending up buying my own ... I will use negative films and still kinda use the camera as a point and shoot ... I am more interested in the image than anything else . I have a Standard 4x5 for when I want o do movements and stuff!!!
How do you like the standard 4x5? Are you happy with the quality versus the price?
@@CertainExposures I like it, it's very light, but works well!!!
Excellent video Nico. I think you could have emphasised the cost aspect even more - the mistakes go away pretty quickly, but the cost does not. 8x10 colour is 24$/sheet now and my local lab charges 14$ to develop. I think it's essential to shoot doubles so that's an eye-watering 80$ per scene and then you may not like the shot after all and just file the negatives away and do nothing with them! That for me is the biggest "trap" with large format - the fact that the slow and static working method can result in mediocre shots at great expense. I shoot expired film, develop my own and moved from 8x10 to 5x7 to combat this but it's a constant struggle because film and development costs go up all the time.
Is this perhaps one of the most pro-actively ignored videos on youtube? I remember listening to this a few months after I got into 35mm, it was very convincing.
My LF camera is due to be delivered any day :)
Enjoy it!!!
Thank you for putting some common sense back in my head😂
I can’t speak for others. But I started in doing weddings. Which bought most all my equipment. Got a degree in photography. When I wanted away from the stress of pro work. I retired from my day job so to speak. Now I have two 4x5’s and this is my time to speed with me and the camera no wife or girlfriend to try to influence me. To get away time. So yea I will rush in. I know I will be doing everything
For people who do things too fast, Large Format might be a good way for them to slow down.