HEMA Feder Sword Review: Regenyei VS Kvetun VS Sigi: Part 1
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- A comparative review of three HEMA federschwert practice longswords, by top makers Regenyei Armory, Kvetun Armoury and Sigi Forge. Part 1. Part 2 will follow in due course, and will include a period of testing and review by other fencers.
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sigiforge.com/
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Do I have a feder? No..
Do I need a feder? No...
Will I ever buy/use a feder? Probably not, no...
Did I watch and enjoy every second of this video? Of course I did!!
Fascinating and great to hear your views as always, Matt :-)
I like my Regenyei swords a lot. I'm also hungarian so shipping cost is nonexistent and I can support my local business, which is also important to me.
Would love to know how the swords from Regenyei hold up. They are looking amazing!
Lucky! Shipping to Canada is not as enjoyable haha
A feature film length review. Lord of the Feders (Part 1): The Fellowship of the Feder
A certain totally benevolent spirit has been gifting feders to wise HEMA club owners around the world. What could possibly go wrong??
I personally have all three of them and been using them in sparring and tournaments for years, and I like the Sigi one much, much better. Although I defnetly recommend all three. They've all been reliable to me and all handle well. I find the standard regenyei a bit too stiff. The sigi is very very flexible, and made thrusting very safe (Even very hard or when the opponent is charging in).
In my club we spar about 3x a week and usually at almost full speed or full out, and all three models have endured well. The safest option so far, has surelly been sigi thanks for its flexibility allowing for much harder thrusts with much less risk. Its flexibility far outweights the non-rolled tip.
I personally prefer the Sigi thanks to thrust safety + I feel they handle more livelly in the hand + I like the broader blade, gives a more realistic feel that you can tell apart when you're messing up edge allignment (While the other two are so narrow-bladed that sometimes its hard to tell for sure or even for outsiders to see if it was a flat or a edge strike)
For me, Sigi is worth the slightly higher price. But Regenyei and Kvetuns are absolutelly great choices too!
And how they kompare in blade on blade contact, like zornhaw vs zornhaw, or when you beat the blade with krumphaw and so on?
I never knew that there was so much going on about swords. I watched and listened to the whole (1st part) on these Feders video.
My word, you are a man than lives for your craft. Awesome!
So cool. I can end my days knowing I have listened to a Master swordsman! Thank you!!✌️👍
Watch his other videos, he's just as enthusiastic in all of them.
@@OneEyeDollar6 Thanks for the tip, I have subscribed to his channel. There I also found a friend of his: Tod's Workshop. That chap is a chip off the same block and even makes swords and the likes! 👍✌️
@@philholman8520 Tod's Workshop is excellent! I also recommend Modern History TV as well for more medieval weapons history and much more!
@@OneEyeDollar6 Thank you. I'll check that out as well!👍
We get a video from Tod and Matt in the same day? It’s going to be a good day!
You also got one with both. About a Swiss sabre.
@@shinobi-no-bueno you should be ashamed for admitting that you aren’t… You should also be ashamed that you aren’t.
He is without a doubt my favorite UA-camr.
Who's Tod?
@@ARodriguez258 Tod Cutler of Tod’s Workshop… Look him up. He builds true to life and history replicas.
I own 2 Sigis and have had opportunities to try a wide variety of feders at my club, and so far Sigi Forge is my favorite. I love the way the handle and I like the esthetics of them. There are plenty of decent feders out there, but I have definitely found my favorites
You can't really argue with Sigi's aesthetic. It looks like the most premium one.
An hour and 20 minutes? Wow.
*_Part 1_*
holy crap! this is awesome!
An HOUR LONG video, Matt?!? Truly?!? You spoil us
About tips, I think a millimeter of difference or a slightly sharper one doesn't change anything really. It's still a damn small point in your chest, you can't even tell the difference when stabbed, also when the jacket partially absosb the impact it compensate for those little differences. What makes a huge difference is the stiffness of the blade, that's the real deal.
"That's not a review, THIS is a review."
Seriously, 80 minutes and it's just part 1. Impressive.
I recently ordered a feder from SIGI, so this video was really helpful. I ordered one of their fancier models though. SIGI feders are just so pretty, I couldn't resist.
Wow. Thanks for taking the time to do this very long familiarization with these swords. I know thew algorithm hates long videos but perhaps this will help change its "mind".
Can't wait for part 2.
Wow... I really enjoyed this review... Thanks so much for taking the time to create such an interesting lecture on the pros and cons of these arms. Cheers!
My first Feder was a Regenyei Trnava, but I couldn't resist to buy a few other in the last years. A custom from Jirka Novak, a Feder from Szymon Chlebowski, a Blackfencer one, they all offer something special for me.
I love all the numbers and stats. Plus this was basically a movie length video.
I've been using the same Kvetun for 2yr now and it's a work horse of a feder. I've also had to change the wrap twice.
Looking forward to part 2
When I saw the run time I got so excited. A feature length Matt Easton video!
They are all quite similar with pros and cons, so for my personal preference the best will be:
blade&shilt from the Sigi
crossguard from Kvetun
grip from Regenyei
pommel from Sigi
and again, fit&finish from Sigi
"At the moment, Kvetwn is outside of the EU". At the moment? What do you have planned with all those saber Matt?
What a wonderful in depth review. Looking forward to the functional part!
I think the Sigi feels nimble because of the longer handle.
Thanks for putting what must have been a lot of work into sharing all of this very useful information Matt.
Quality content. I've got a Sigi coming in in about two weeks, but I think I'll be picking up a regenyei to try out next.
Thank you for doing all the measurements in metric! I really would have no fun converting them all by myself^^
Na, the rolled tip has twice the mass due to it being rolled, or doubled, around the tip. It's an old metalworking technique compared to what we can do now. It's a good "point" to "point" out the tip design. The "point" is to spread out force and compensate for the attack area of the tip. You can narrow down the attack surface but then you increase the penetration surface. But as far as mass goes, the flared tip is by far the safer tip as it can be molded to any shape needed without having any breakage factor due to the rolled form. Everybody has an onion pi (opinion) .
"Anything you would change on this sword?"
"Just the tip."
Speaking of affordable and good feders, how about trying Pike Armoury feders? I use one and it's pretty good.
> hour and 20 minute video
> "Part 1"
Me: :o
The likelihood of work hardening and breaking is a product of the type of steel and heat treat as well. A flexible blade made properly and of the right steel may very well be less likely to break than the very stiff blade which could be overhardened and brittle...
If I were to measure the flex of the blades, I would cover their grips in rags, clamp them to a table and fix a string and a ruler to the point. Then I would hang different weights on the string and measure differences in distance from the floor and the angle of the ruler with a level and a protractor. The latter is optional though.
Looking forward to 3h long 2nd part of review. :)
that's essentially how the SCA officially measures flex in steel swords for sparring, with some set standards for 'acceptable' ranges of how much they must deflect for a certain weight affixed to the end
Matt you should get in contact with Tea Kew, I know he has a device to measure flex very accurately.
I like the narrow grips which is a reason for getting a sigi custom. I have a faceted pommel which helps with edge alignment a bit.
I wish we could get some Ensifer reviews. They seem to be pretty good, bit getting reviews on their new lines is next to impossible.
Absolutely. My Ensifer messer was one of the best trainers I've ever had. I'm currently rocking an SGT which is awesome too. And it was made a half hour drive from my house. I would totally get another Ensifer longsword if it wasn't so damn stiff. I have a Regenyei as my main tournament feder, but the nicest ones I've owned were Pavel Moc. Quite heavy, but incredibly safe and beautiful.
Thank you so much for making this video! Just imagine how many HEMA practitioners this video will help deciding which feder they should get. Really looking forward to part 2 as well!
Us who have non-standard feders and will never know which one is unequivocally best: "Why do we live, just to suffer?"
(All joking aside, great in-depth review!)
I'd be interested to know how square the grips on historical examples are on average (both of feders and longswords).
Regarding measuring the flex of a blade, why not use a simple trigger pull gauge? Just clamp the hilt in a vice, then hook the trigger pull gauge to the tip & pull a specified distance. This will render a (relatively) consistent reading that can be used in comparison. Most gauges I have can handle up to 12lbs. If you wanted to bend the blade farther & harder, you could use any weight scale designed to be hung & then have the weight added to a basket or hook, like many farm scales for weighing feed, etc. This could be attached to the blade tip & allow for much greater force to be applied.
Hi Matt. I noticed the Maori warclub to your right. I was wondering if youve done a video on those?
Cheers
Rob from NZ
ah, the good old cheap times... Currently (April 2024) the prices are:
- Regenyiei EUR 230
- Sigi EUR 330
- Kvetun EUR 270
This video is better than some movies
the SCA uses as a test of flex for a sparring sword the following method:
clamp the hilt horizontally on a table, and hang a known weight from the end -- then measure the deflection.
Awesome review!
How does the Duellatorum feder that you reviewed last year hold up to these three?
Sigi offers leather grips as well with a raised waisted handel. I got a corded grip though because when I asked them they said it could take more hits then the leather could.
Can you somehow please put also the corona ensifer in you test?
or could you tell us what you think about it?
Thanks
also just wanted to note that Dr. Tobias english Armor 1450-1500 is on pre order in the unlikely case you missed it
Cheers :)
Isn’t It actually a 34 cm handle on the Sigi? Since it’s a total length of 135, making it exactly the same length as the Kveten having a one cm longer blade, & a one cm shorter hilt?
It has a one cm longer blade as well as a one cm longer hilt, than does the Regenye.
You should have included a VB Feder. They have a HUGE market share in the US, because they are readily available, and significantly less expensive than the Regenyei. Although, I hear the Regenyei has a large mark up in the US.
For part 1, it’s easy to compare doing your own measurements, but for part 2 - it would be VERY useful to hear how the handling and sparring differences compare.
The VB-Swords are good and cheap, I have a longsword and a feder myself from them, and they are great. They are the cheapest I think (?) with 180 € plus 18 € shipping in the EU and more for outside. Both are quit massive steal and the point of balance is especially for the longsword quit far up on the blade, I guess 10 cm away from the crossguard.
And Victor Berbekucz can achieve these cheap prices because it is all standard things, there are no options for hilt, and so on and it is totally mass production. But in a good way... for special wishes I ordered a greatsword and a rapier and side dagger from Regenyei.
Would be very interesting to hear your view of the Clebowski feders!
I'm not an engineer, and I'm sure one could give better ideas. I'm also not a swordsman, so I could be off the mark along those lines as well. To measure stiffness (1:10:11), you could try placing a scale vertically against a wall and see how much force feels like the right amount in a thrust. I'd then stand up the sword on the tip, hang that much weight off the crossguard or hilt, and measure the deflection. You could skip the weights and measure the force with the scale on the floor, but that seems a bit more fiddly when you're trying to measure deflection. You could potentially lean the sword against the wall and use the change in height as a gauge of deflection.
Another option would be to have a table against a wall and stand the scales along the wall. Lay the sword with the tip against the wall and apply an appropriate amount of thrust-force. Put a clamp behind the pommel so the sword won't move, and measure the sword's deflection from the table.
And yet another would be to orient a scale vertically along the wall, without applying enough force to bend the blade. Use a laser ruler or rangefinder (perhaps held at the hilt?) to measure starting distance. Apply appropriate thrust-force and take another distance reading, and use the difference to gauge deflection.
Have you asked Tod? I suspect he either has something would do this, could be adapted to do this, or would know how to build something to do this.
Wow, good to see this. And I did just have a Sigi shipped… Let’s see how this goes.
This is great, it's a feature length sword review! I can't finish it now.
I'd be really interested in your thoughts on standardisation. If you were asked to design a feder for standardised combat, what range of specs would you choose?
Any love for Szymon Chlebowski's Feders? They look awesome and the price is alright.
IMO they are nice for solo drills but too beefy and stiff to use for partnered drills and sparring. You can use them if you have good control but you'd still be kind of a dick when there are safer options out there these days.
I really like mine. Handles nice and very pleasantly build. Very good edge quality.
On a flip side - they have a tendency to take a set in a tip after hard trusts. Bit random as some was holding well but we got one butch were all got this problem with time.
@@mysticmarbles we spar heavy with them and Ensifers
U just need to be sure u have full kit on and skill levels to be good and relatively even
My first Kvetun got stiffer over time and nobody believed it could happen. It started failing 15kg flex tests at tournaments. However at 1:11:21 you mention that a blade can "work harden", did I hear correctly? That a blade if pushed past its elastic limit repeatedly can stiffen? I do a fair bit of pell work and like to flex my blades.
I'd like to see a Regenyei light compared to the Sigi Leichty
Not having standards also makes it a pain as a maker. I've made many feders or sparring blades that have gone to the UK, Italy, Germany, and most here in the US, everyone has different requirements, and it's currently impossible to make a single piece that works for all groups. I do hope it gets standardize at some point!
For blade flex test we normally just use a scale for weighing humans. It's not perfect but works.
There should be also one of the Victor's feders...
Me and a friend got feders about two years ago.
He's on his third kvetun, I'm still on my first sigi.
Jokes on me though, they sent him free replacements.
You don't have flexibility limits at your tournaments? That's quite weird... At our (Czech) tournaments, there are limits every time usually between 9 and 16 (sometimes 18) kg. It's being measured prior to the tournament on a regular personal scale.
From my (very limmited) experience flared tips may be more prone to snapping than rolled ones. I only heard about one case of rolled tip breaking while I personally saw two instances of flare tip breaking off (once in tournament and once while sparing). It may be that they have more inertia and if the swords met in right (or wrong) point they stress the metal more.
I'm wondering how difference in steel affetcts these swords. I can compare only Regenyei feder and Kvetun sabre. While Regenyei feder is fine, Kvetun sabre has in my opinion (shared with another club members who bought them too) either soft steel or thin blade and dent quite quickly.
In a rounded tip the force will be divided slightly more evenly because it is the same thikness everywhere. on the flared tip there seems to be a thinner neck that is surrounded by thicker material so force will concentrate more on that one point. I'd imagine if that flaring has to be hand forged that there is also a higher change to have manufacturing caused weakpoints there.
I use pva glue over my regrnyei cord wrap to give it that leather look, you can just give it a fresh coat to stop the fraying if you take a hit on the grip. 😃
Will you show some sparring videos of you fighting?
Yeah probably, though there are already loads on this channel if that's what you really want to see :-)
@@scholagladiatoria
Yeah but they're quite old;)
I love this channel regardless
Have you got round to part 2 yet?
Are they called Feder after "feather" or after "spring"?
Feather. The usage of 'spring' came shortly later.
Hard to order regenyeis in the states. Purple heart armory is always out... might shell out for the tulip maestro feder
Kvetun feels heavier because the extra weight in the guard. Also why it feels slower
For the people who prefer schilts that are sloped, does it make it more difficult to fight in the bind?
Hey Matt: Get some real calipers, and maybe a micrometer with a ball anvil adaptor. Can't go wrong with Mitutoyo or Brown & Sharpe.
Could you not put a board on a bathroom scale, and make a mark on the wall, and see how many kilos it takes to flex them a certain amount?
place between twenty chairs and hand a weight in the middle of the blade and mesure the deflection
How the feders holding after 3 months?
Matt, just watching this one, but a quick comment. A larger end on a crossguard like you prefer would most likely just make a larger hole in the unfortunate person falling on it in my opinion. Enjoying this video, thanks.
Force distributed over a larger area is always less dangerous.
@@ProngedStag True, but that is not that much more of an area to prevent penetrating a squishy human. It might be defeated by hardened armor, but not flesh. I was a soldier, and I worked in emergency medicine, in my opinion that little bit won't make much difference.
@@100dfrost in the context of modern sparring, which these feders are meant for, it does make a big difference. Everyone is wearing puncture resistant and/or hard protective gear. People aren't doing Mordhaus in sparring. It is a rare and frankly irresponsible confluence of events that would cause those to contact actual flesh.
In the context of what these are meant to be used for, larger crossguard endswill cause less serious contusions, are extremely unlikely to break skin, and are unlikely to damage bone.
@@100dfrost for a related but different example -- marginally thicker edges make a huge difference in the amount of pain from an opponents strike while wearing protective gear. A single millimeter of thickness difference in the edge of a blunt feder is legitimitely night and day when getting hit with it.
@@ProngedStag Wow! You're such a brilliant troll! You've changed my mind! Out here.
All three of these feders are great choices, but to me nothing beats the feel of an Ensifer.
And if you compare them to the Duellatorum one, how would you rank them ?
Push sword down on bathroom scales until it bends - surprisingly repeatable
Is there part 2?
The serious HEMA people are out in the comment section on this one, as is to be expected, I suppose. Out of respect, I'll refrain from making my amateurish pommel joke. I just want everyone to know that I had one. Don't ask why, I just do.
If the dimensions of the swords are similar but the weight is very different than the cause of the difference must be the density of steel. I have no idea how much it can vary between different kind of steels though
the only dimensions he went into detail for were the blades and the overall proportions in terms of length, so some of the weight could be found in differing thickness of crossguards, handles and pommels, but it would certainly be interesting to know more about the density of the steels used.
I doubt very much that the steel can be so much lighter. The alloys used are iron from the most part, other elements are present in very very small amounts. The mass difference can be in a hilt. The distribution of the steel throughout the hilt can make two sword balance similiarly despite different weights. Sigi weighs a lot, but most of it is probably in the tang near the cross. That makes the weight, but not slowing down handling, because the weight is in your hands and almost in the center of rotation. Kvetun probably has more material towards the pommel (and also a longer handle) and also in the crossguard, so the mass is a little further from the center of rotation to both sides and so it is slowing down the sword a bit. Regenyei has probably no such "extra" mass, because it's cross is thin and short and the grip (=tang + pommel leverage) is short, so that's why it's the lightest.
Notice the triangular protective piece on these swords?? Exact reason for protection as I advocate to be on Chinese swords. Notice how many are claiming Chinese swords have a reversed triangular sword guard?? Notice how these advocates are not demonstrating how their movement and technique do slide the swords of their attackers or opponents off their reversed triangular sword guard??
So, no Tatami mat cutting tests? :(
If the blokes with the 90 cm feder and the 110 cm feder both agree it’s fair to face each other, than it’s fair, if you want to make this an even more accurate simulation of combat and a less of just another sport, even if one of the the people involved doesn’t think it’s fair, they ought to be prepared raise their sword regardless of the opponent. In the world of historical combat it was likely rare to be attacked by an opponent who thinks they are likely to lose to you.🤷🏻♂️
But it mostly was a sport :P people sportfenced a LOT more with Longsword feathers hundrets of years ago than they fought with sharps. Even Grandmaster Lichtenauer is drawn with one.
People get way to sweaty to "simulate reeel combat" which is de facto impossible unless there two naked guys with sharps...
100-101cm is the standart, buy shorter and its your problem, buy longer and you might not be allowed to participate.
Kvetun is based in Georgia now right not Russia?
Yep
B..bbb...but dude, what about Berbekucz?
As someone who lives in a third world country and is used to spending a lot more (think 5x-20x more) on my hobbies than you people need to, I'd much rather go with the lighter sword and pay for a new quillon if it bends. It's clearly gonna last years, and it's less expensive than a month's nights out.
I think that Sigi sword might be bedlined. Bedliner is very slipper from my experience and even moreso with sweaty hands.
1:04 That's what she said
This man has more relations than Bill Clinton
What is a VAT
Value added tax. Some country use the term GST (Good & Service Tax).
and just noticed the time
Always want a tidy slot.
Now this ia freah out of the oven
Only a fool makes purchasing decisions based on the spiel of a man who advocates for raid shadow legends.
Please say "I am doing my best to be impartial"... impartiality is an ideal to strive to, not really something we can achieve.
Actually, I'd say impartiality is spectacularly easy to achieve in regards to nearly identical objects like these - unless of course you think the judge is corrupt due to relations with the makers like Matt's business relations. Impartiality isn't some impossible to achieve ideal. Often, it's as easy as making the people associated - and thus which object you would favor - unknown (e.g. a double blind experiment).
@@Alex_Fahey Some influece might occur subconciously though, which would mean that it is outside of your control, so if you claim that you are impartial, this means that you are absolutely certain that your subconscious does not affect your judgement whatsoever, which certainly isn't impossible, but it is a bold claim to make in my opinion, especially in an unscripted review that, for the most part, relies on judgement rather than measurements (except for aspects such as blade thickness of course).
Thus, saying that one TRIES to be impartial may be more truthful than claiming one actually IS impartial.