Jesus Christ, what a self-righteous prick you are. I’d recommend that you try your hand at a literal masturbation gig on OF over this sanctimonious intellectual masturbation that you’re engaged in here. You might even make a few bucks. Just my two cents.
Having a kid is not a kind act. I have a large group of successful friends, most of which have decided not to have kids in their relationships. I can name 20 couples with 6 figure incomes combined that aren't going to have kids. My partner and I fit in this category, and I'm not having kids either. Your attack on him is not addressing his argument. Address the argument and he probably wouldn't have pinned you.
@@SteelWool567 I genuinely believe it to be the most reasonable form of criticism in this comment section thus far. Looking back on this video of mine and others like it, the smug self-righteousness makes me cringe pretty hard. Although I still ultimately hold just about the same sort of sentiment that was expressed in this vid, I’d like to think that I’ve become at least a bit more self-aware of the grandiose narcissistic way I often conveyed it.
@@acardinalconsideration824 you don’t come off smug in these videos though? You’re only defending a position that the opposition loves to scoff at. You would not have even felt the need to make these videos if it weren’t for the people on the other side constantly critiquing antinatalism
@GIDEONgame 1 day ago "@Dragumix You can live with them instead of acting like a little b*tch." - Could you please behave like a person with a good character and not insult me and others, please? "Go take look at Paul Alexander, man can only move his head, still became succesful." - Yes, and how many people in a similar situation didn't become successful and happy? "I have great respect for people who raise above their illness and make something of their live." - You can't expect people to do so in such situations because they might be unable to do so. "I dislike people who use it as an excuse and do nothing but complain all the time." - First of all: most people in these situations aren't doing nothing and complaining all the thime. And second: If people are suffering, they have all right to complain. In my opinion, it's very arrogant of you and so many others to demand a lot of people that have to live in bad situations ("live with them instead of acting like a b*tch") that you have never been in in your lives. If you've ever procreated or intend to procreate, you are part of the problem. "We all suffer, yes, some more than others, but by complaining you just make it infinetly worse." - Complaining can help to get help, so it doesn't make it always worse. Of course at some point you have to change focus for some time to make the best out of the situation. "You also compared having a child to having a mental illness." - Can you please cite me where I said this? "Which is deserves a great many ad hominems, but that will bring us nowhere, so I will let go of that for now." - Ad hominems never get us further in the discussion.ff
Out of everything in life that we had a hard time having control having children is the one you have the most control in other than losing weight. The fact that cavemen that couldn't even make fire were having children is testiment to this
It’s always been scary to have kids, but it’s worse now more than ever. There are so many threats now. The worst problem is that people are becoming more ignorant, but living longer low quality lives as you stated. All this risk, just to consume and compete with your neighbors? There’s no sense of community; at least some of our ancestors had that.
That will always heavily depend on who you’ve been brought into existence by. One does not have to look all that far back into history to recognize that this is one of the absolute best times to be alive for hundreds of millions of people. Just the improvements in medical technology alone makes me feel incredibly fortunate to not have been born longer than a couple of centuries ago. Which is really saying something, considering how the average quality of life in the modern day is quite abysmal.
@@acardinalconsideration824 No, they're smart. Look at the Manosphere, Redpill and Incels. You want women to breed with those losers? Pass. Rather give the Earth a chance and let humans die
@@heavyhead2k139 That sounds more like social anxiety than just depression itself. And it's very common for people *_without_* social anxiety to be nervous about public speaking.
@G N what is your life like? Do you have zero problems and enough resources to live life exactly how you like? Do you do everything you want and nothing you don’t want to do? Do you have an employer or government entity telling you to pay taxes or get a license just to drive? Just because some people achieve things will sick or disabled, the majority will achieve absolutely nothing. They toiled and suffered for nothing.
@G N tell all your stupid philosophies to hungry children in Afghanistan, the subcontinent, Middle East, South America, and Africa. Krishna in the Bhagavadgita has said "Dukhalayam Asasvatam": The material world is a place of suffering and sadness
"Antinatalists are weak people who project their depression..." ...says the person who thinks creating a tiny copy of themselves is the best way to improve happiness.
@@Jb-zx2fw Religions has always known having children is the worst kind of suffering you can inflict on yourself. Having children is materialistic and pleasures of the flesh the opposite of reaching Enlightenment and returning to God/Singularity.
True. They do it merely for their sense of ‘self-importance’. In other words, narcissism detected
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@@phoenixclairsentientempath2119 simplifying the motivations of humans through the lens of your own limited experience is a narcissistic thing to do. Irony.
I have had people admit to me, quite blatantly, that the suffering of others is worth it in order for them to be here, enjoying their pizza. Humans are petty and spiteful beyond belief. It is clear that the majority of people would choose to remain in Omelas. Those of us who would walk away are in the extreme minority. It is also clear that people have children in order to vicariously satisfy their curiosity regarding the future. They believe in vicarious immortality, which is an absurd notion. You are not your children. It is not the same consciousness.
A person would have to be a very special breed of stupid in order to believe that the sensual pleasures here for us to indulge in are enough to cover the cost of severe suffering. I refuse to believe that most people who respond that way to the Antinatalist arguments are actually that brain-dead. One would hope that they just haven’t given the philosophy any real level of thought and that most of them don’t genuinely hold that view. I’ve noticed that most people who genuinely oppose the philosophy do so from more of a consequentialist perspective.
There was one guy on a Swedish forum who told that his father got prostate cancer at about 55 and died from it at about 60. He expects to get it himself at that age and he also expects his eventual sons to get it, but he thinks it's fair, because at least he'll give them the opportunity to experience life...🙄 And most people are incredibly petty. I estimate that even some 50% of us antinatalists think it's better that millions of Ukrainians suffer than that they shall risk nuclear war or even higher costs of living. In another comment to Life is Overrated96 I said that indeed some prices are simply raised with the war as a pretext and that the real reason is greed, but at least in my world we should rather die in a nuclear war than letting Russia have its way - and why would a real antinatalist even have objections to a nuclear war in the first place? You can't seriously call yourself an antinatalist and fear death to the degree that you would miss out on such a great chance to have mankind and most other higher animals eradicated once and for all!
I am a yoga teacher on preply. Teaching ancient authentic yoga philosophy.( The highest wisdom) I really dont want to make babies. Only weaker beings procreate , to feel power, security. powerful ppl live like lion and roam free.
This world is evil. I do not understand why reacting in accordance with that (beeing sad) is called sick. Shouldn't it be called "sick" to be happy in hell?
It really is a crazy place we live in! I knew evil existed since I was a child but now at 43 I just can’t believe the actual level of evil that exists in this world. If you ever watch a cat or dog take care of their offspring it’s so precious how they guard their babies with their life including father cats and dogs. If you look around you at humans so many have kids and don’t take good care of them at all. How many children are living with a single parent and so many kids don’t have their mother or father! It’s mind boggling how animals have more common sense and decency than humans do. There are people out here killing and abusing their own children! Sadder yet other people might know children are being abused and do nothing about it. I’m so glad I never had kids. The cost of living is so high that people making 6 figures a year can barely survive. I seriously feel sorry for all the children that are born and suffer through this life because people that don’t have a good childhood do suffer for life!
Only evil people will tell you that you are sick for not liking this evil world. Evil likes evil and good people recognize that this world is evil. There are some good people, but it is hard to find. Some people that are not evil are good for nothing. There are many people of all ages that have been abused by their parents/family. To anyone that is depressed, you are not the problem. It is those that abused you that are the problem. Could be family, school, work, etc. I always tell people that the ones that need help are the abusers, not the victims. If these people were dealt with properly, a person's depression would go away. Many people don't speak to their parents anymore because of all types of abuse/neglect. In many cases even other family members like grandparents, aunty or uncles didn't even care. I know of many people that have experienced this. Many of these families are financially secure too. Money is not a problem, they are just bad family members. A kid born into a struggling family isn't good either. Then the cycle just continues of bringing kids into a world where nobody cares about them. This isn't just abuse, it is evil and is a crime. Some abusers were also abused and will just continue the problem. Some people understand this and won't bring a child here. Good parents will have a hard time raising kids in a world like this. A good parent will have to be in reality whether they like it or not.
A lot of people who think life is a gift do drugs regularly, drink alcohol, watch filthy content-movies killing people, and engage other reckless activities like sex. If life itself is a gift, you wouldn’t need drugs, alcohol, sex, Or entertainment. Nothing more than food, water, clothing, and shelter should be enough.
Yes! And these are the same people that make living on this earth feel even more unbearable. Sick of being surrounded by selfish, irresponsible, sickos.
One of humans BIGGEST copes: Religion/God delusion. Most of them even claim they are procreating for this God. As if some true powerful beings would need the existence of cancerous humans.
You can also reverse that and say it is absolutely egotistical for you to decide whether or not a future potential human should have the right to live based on your subjective experience of life. “But there’s suffering” Yes. So? Do you just impose your value hierarchy onto the unborn and everyone else? “Oh you ‘natalists’, you are biased by your positivity” Oh you anti-natalists, you are biased by your negativity.
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This entire anti-natalism cancels itself out if you’re willing to go deep enough. It’s all centred around the subjective opinion that there being any suffering in life means that it’s better to not have existed at all. Which is a subjective personal opinion that you cannot project unto someone else, yet the anti-natalists try.
@I suppose to you the pleasures in life for the “positive people” are worth the suffering of the “negative people”. A lot of “negative people”, or miserable people are the way they are not by choice. Think of all the children being trafficked. The horrifying hell they live in every day so that you can enjoy your pizza. So that you can feel “positive”. I’m sure many of the parents of children who are trafficked never expected their children to be kidnapped. Life is a gamble. And gambling with a life is no joke. But hey, these kids will stay sex slaves for the rich and powerful. And you can enjoy your pizza. I’m wishing you pleasant breeding. Hopefully your children can also enjoy their pizza in peace. And never become victim to pizza gate.
Ultimately, the future potential human cannot consent to being born. So, for better or for worse, you're forcing it into this world, and the only way it can leave is through the most brutal, depraved, unfortunate way a human can leave. It's a rigged contract, and spawning humans in without their consent is pretty egotistical... It's probably fine if the child has a very safe surrounding throughout their life, because then they can experience plenty of joy, inspire others, be a contribution to society, but it does seem immoral to create 10 humans in starving AFRICA just to try get free labour and help with chores.
Good video. I do suffer from intermittent depression and I do think that it's made me have a more realistic worldview, and now I can never un-see it. The only difference in my worldview between when I'm depressed and when I'm not, is that when I'm not I have the energy and motivation to do things to try to improve the lives of the other people who are stuck in this life along with me, and when I'm depressed I don't have that energy and motivation to help others or myself.
@G N Capitalism will seek out any community in the name of money, setting up Walmarts and Amazon warehouses to "branch into the community" while becoming the biggest employer for that community, and sucking all the money of said community into the hands of the owner class. Better to destroy the cancer than to wait it out. Don't forget capitalism is *the* leading factor in climate change. Which one will die first, capitalism, or out planet? Answer: the planet, and when it does, people like Elon Musk will seek out a new planet to continue capitalism for their rich elites.
@G N Protect those books. Fascists will come to destroy anything that takes power away from them, including books that help people survive outside of cities and religious texts.
@G N although I disagree with your arguments wholeheartedly, I will agree to protect any sacred texts you have. Fahrenheit 451 was a warning, not fiction.
@@TheFracturedfuture Or your right and its satisfying, and you usually bring the mood of those around you up, therefore making their life more enjoyable.
@@theceoofeggmansempire5214 Yes. I figured what having kids is like loading 5 rounds and playing Russian roulette with some other person's life. I refuse to do it.
Most people are on the slow-motion suicide plan. If they were serious they would not take the risks they do. They want to die. Once you SEE this, life changes for you. Once you understand what FEELS good in this life leads to death..you see it. Dopamine literally frys whatever pleasure you thought existed and then presents you will one of 2 choices...live dead or die. Ask a surviving meathead they will tell you. We have people to day who have whacked off to porn so much they literally cannot get stiff with a real partner. Millions of others who have fried their brains on video games to the point life outside is a total snore now.
Life is painful for all. More so for those in Africa than Denmark but still. Majority of people have children for selfish reasons such as not dying alone. Love your child and don’t let it be born.
Amazing video!! Sucks a lot that a majority of natalists don't even attempt to make an effort to understand antinatalist ideology. It's so much easier to declare the philosophy as demonic or conflate with nihilism/pro-mortalism bc it forces a person to think deeply which is very uncomfortable. Unpacking messages they were raised with from media + family, choosing ethics over biological urges, plus religious brainwashing makes it so difficult to have these convos. You're mostly talking to a brick wall, but I hope you keep making these videos bc there some people out there who will choose compassion
A gift is something a being with a conscience can appreciate. A gift can also be unnecessary things that you either re-gift or throw away. Life may be a gift to some of us, conscious beings, but it is not to a being that doesn’t exist. And to some of us, the gift of life is trash.
Before you have children, there are millions of things to consider. This world IS depressing anyway. We did the right thing not bringing them here. Question: Is your life perfect? Have you ever suffered emotional and mental turmoil? Have you ever been sick? Ever run out of money? Maybe you've not been able to pay for essential amenities? Having children is wrong.🎉
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You make one huge jump between those questions and that conclusion. Even both the voyager satellites didn’t travel that far from earth. All kidding aside: hardship != moral reason to not have others exist. Unless you subjectively view any type of hardship as unbearable, but that is your personal view. It’s subjective. Your forefathers and mothers must be proud of you to end their entire lineage on a quest for moral superiority.
"Your forefathers and mothers must be proud of you to end their entire lineage on a quest for moral superiority." Just from reading the wording of your comments, it seems to me that you believe the nonexistent/the unborn and the dead have feelings, needs and desires. If you feel this is true and can scientifically prove it, please point me in the direction where I can learn more.
no they are not weak, they are conscious of the real negative nature of life and therefore consciously chose not to have children. Most people who are having children are not even natalists, but unconscious automatons who live like robots and unconsciously do things society expects from them. ´ Step 1 is to stop lying to yourself. Realize that life is only about surviving. The money / salary hierarchy is just a copy of the natural food chain. Which means having children is equivalent to put new beings into the misery here. Which is the most evil thing you can do.
People who succumb to their desire to bring life into this hellhole are the ones who are weak. You were so desperate to create a mini version of yourself that you procreated without even stopping to consider the effects your selfish actions would have on your child or children. Even those who thoroughly consider the consequences of bringing new life into this world still end up creating a child/ren instead of adopting those who already exist and are suffering.
G N anyway you and your children will get sick, weaken, get old and diseases that come with oldhood... that's unavoidable even if you think love, strength, hope is enough to solve life problems... Sickness, weakness, entropy, death are greatest and unbeatable.
Explaining personal childfree position (i never and never will try to convince other ppl to not have children) by depression is intellectual laziness and a way to try to discredit anyone who does not share your life choices. I have the chance to be born in a middle class french family in a rich and developed country with no serious dysfunctions but even so, i realized pretty soon, around my 15 16, that life is mostly a source of boredom, constraint, suffering, solitude and frustration until we die, and before we die, unless it is by accident, we will face intolerable suffering. We have little glimpse of happiness but they are short and fleeting. The rest of time we live neutral to bad periods. Life isnt worst it, we still remain in life mostly because we did't want to suffer and to make the one we love suffer to but if we would have the opportunity, nobody will choose to have a second chance to live. Sometimes i have to admit, i hate my parents to give me birth cause most of the time i wish i never been born at all. Nice try.
@@pmlectures1 en plus je suis pas d'accord, notre pays a plein de problèmes , il est en train de se fragmenter et personne ne fait rien . On tue la France et aucune réaction
Having a baby can cause depression. Postpartum depression. Also I passed down my mental health issues to my son. I should have never gotten pregnant. I was a teenager though and not watched or cared for. My son has had a great life, both parents and good home. Still the DNA 🧬 found a way to fuck him over. He's 30 and child free because this world is so volatile.
The more ignorant the more they breed. Smart people don't breed. The reason is self evident why its a silly idea. But the dumbazzes are winning the race. maybe you have noticed?
Exactly.. they know this place is inherently bad. The pain of pregnancy is another sign it isn’t a good idea. The joy of sex proves there is an evil agenda on this prison planet, it’s a form of artifice.
In short, my primary goal with these videos is in attempting to get other humans to give deeper consideration to their own decision as to wether or not to have children with someone. As well as to remind younger folks to be more careful when fucking with one another, considering that *over 25% of the population are brought into existence as a mere consequence of the pleasures of sex on the young mind. Not even as a deliberate decision, let alone a well thought-out one.* You don’t have to be an ‘Antinatalist’ to recognize that this level of negligence is insanely fucked up. The causes of this carelessness are clearly multifaceted, but much of it lies in a steep underestimation of the potential for severe consequences. And these prospective consequences are what I’m attempting to convey here. Here’s a recent video in which I highlight my primary aim when it comes to discussing this topic ‘Many People Don’t Give a Single Shit About Their Own Kids’ ua-cam.com/video/d07w3N8GVw4/v-deo.html
In ancient Indian culture. There's a belief that lif is actually given by God as a punishment for our ba deeds. He gives us multiple lives. Beginning with a human. Depending upon our deeds he gives us life as human or some other creature. A life spent without any evil deeds will cause a person to attain moksha (freedom from the cycle of life and death). The person will be freed from all the type of suffering.
@@abhisheknahar7363 "He gives us multiple lives" - Ok, why was i given the first life when i did nt exist and did nt commit anything good or bad? I mean, when i was having zero lives who gave me 1 life? Why god is so evil?
The greats of this world want as many future slaves as possible to be born on this earth, future consumers of goods and ideas that allow this small handful of privileged to use the majority. When I talk about it in the context of my childfree life, I don't care to explain to all supporters of joyful reproduction that thoughtlessness, selfishness or imaginary self-esteem are justifications. I know that I belong to a minority that has not been happily burned at the stake yet. version pour Frankophone: Les grands de ce monde veulent voir naître sur cette terre un maximum de futurs esclaves, futurs consommateurs de biens et d'idées qui permettent à cette petite poignée de privilégiés d'utiliser la majorité. Quand j'en parle dans le contexte de ma vie sans enfant, je me fiche d'expliquer à tous les partisans de la reproduction joyeuse que l'insouciance, l'égoïsme ou l'estime de soi imaginaire sont des justifications. Je sais que j'appartiens à une minorité qui n'a pas encore été joyeusement brûlée sur le bûcher. Version für deutschsprachig Die Großen dieser Welt wollen, dass so viele zukünftige Sklaven wie möglich auf dieser Erde geboren werden, zukünftige Konsumenten von Gütern und Ideen, die es dieser kleinen Handvoll Privilegierter ermöglichen, die Mehrheit zu nutzen. Wenn ich im Zusammenhang mit meinem kinderlosen Leben darüber spreche, möchte ich allen Befürwortern der freudigen Fortpflanzung nicht erklären, dass Gedankenlosigkeit, Egoismus oder eingebildetes Selbstwertgefühl Rechtfertigungen sind. Ich weiß, dass ich zu einer Minderheit gehöre, die noch nicht glücklich auf dem Scheiterhaufen verbrannt wurde.
Very good video, continue to communicate on this so important and taboo subject in order to awaken the conscience of a maximum of people. Many people are afraid of death and believe that they will escape it through their children; what an illusion! Many use children to cure themselves of their psychopathologies, people need to realize that all these motivations are not ethical, selfish and criminal, especially since the child has no choice, life is imposed on him...
Yeah selfish! Cause the man made religions said that giving birth saves women! Lmao religion always didn’t say no to slavery. That old book was made by people that were control freaks in power.
Everyone & everything will die someday. Yes, we are here to endure suffering. We are here to try to overcome suffering. Death & suffering is a tool that is used to try to help people remember their frailty. To hopefully inspire empathy & love but it does not usually produce this effect. For most, it has produced a coldness & birthed the realism of inevitable cruelty. It is my belief most if not all humans are inherently selfish, fueled by ego, greed, & self-preservation. Not everyone intends to hurt those in their vicinity but you will inevitably hurt those in your path regardless of your intentions. It's more the result of collateral damage & friendly fire as a consequence of limited perspective & lack of self-awareness. When you understand this, everything loses an offensive stance as it becomes inevitable & not personal. All people are reactive to the living things in their environment until they are made aware of of this design. That's not to say that all life is full of moments of suffering. There is also joy.
Depression is a realistic view of the world by taking off their ugly rose tainted glasses freeing themselves off their chained shackles these people most likely if they have any Empathy, Kindness, Compassion in their Hearts ❤️ will come over to Antinatalism to spear any children of suffering they went through themselves.
in islamic teaching theres a thing called qonaah, which means the feeling of content so why worried about the future? everythings are already been decided anyway & whats more theres god who control everything so anything cant go wrong if gods around. hence i am antinatalist & i dont believed in god or religion, just some made up bullshittery ideology.
"Your life is a gift that your parents offered themselves." Great vid, man. I also strongly think that Antinatalism is best combined with Determinism and NFW, for a truly deep moral understanding of the picture of existence.
@@Zex-4729 Even if that were true, and it's certainly not true that we understand the link between what appears to be true randomness at the level of subatomic particles and anything that goes on at the higher levels (which does indeed appear to be reliably deterministic), it would still seem exactly same way from our perspective, i.e. like everything is mere luck. Fate/destiny means that whatever happens happens IN SPITE of the causes (it's a nonsensical mystical perspective), while determinism means that whatever happens happens BECAUSE of the causes. I would say that as long as we can have 3 nanometer processes function completely deterministically, it's rather safe to say that our brains are just as deterministic... For reference, the cell body of the smallest neurons are 4 microns in size, which translates to 4000 nanometers.
Agree with everything you say in this video. Love the point about how people are blissfully unaware (wilfully blind) as to the hundreds of bullets they have dodged by sheer good luck.
The pressure to breed comes from monied interests who's systems and machines eat people. Some call it market share, others eyeballs. growth growth growth...in the US they PAY people to bred...the lower the IQ the better.
It would be more insane of me knowing I need a pill to make me happy which in the end just caused more pain but still believe i can bring a child into this world believing their world would be a happy one.... doesn't make sense....
in german the reversed word for life is fog. Which also is exactly what it is. You don´t know who you are, where you come from, where you go and what to do here. Like walking through thick fog withoug any orientation at all.
Argument destroys itself World is full of suffering so people gets depressed So why you want to put a child in this depressed world 😂😂😂 And sooner or later everybody gets depressed 😂
Thats what I like about Sophocles, he had it all: he was good looking, smart, popular, successful etc. and yet he said that it would be better to never have been born.
all joy in this world is temporary superficial crap. While the deep fundament is evil. Watch watch?v=uVnDJMjNySg&t=6s and tell me how this can be any good. Humanity created this modern society to get away from crappy, evil nature. But to do this, you need slaves who produce and run things in this society. Which has created the greed for money. Which is really a will expression for more freedom, because with more money you have more choices and less dependancy of others. But even the wish for freedom (=money) is connected to misery/slavery for others. You have to be very superficial and ignorant to find this positive.
I have less respect for Nietzsche since I realised how much he contributed to popularising the ad-hominem fallacy. He seemed to be more interested in what a given worldview said about the person that held it than in the accuracy of the worldview itself. And Nietzsche’s modern fans, like Jordan Peterson, employ that same logic, at least specifically when arguing against antinatalists (and, in a wider sense, when arguing with atheists).
I'm anti-natalist, and love so much your videos, but unfortunately i can't understand English language, always i switch on Arabic subtile, but when i download the video i can't see Arabic subtile, please can you make your videos with Arabic subtile🙏🏻🙏🏻
Nietzsche would refer to this antinatalist ideology as decadent. An ideology that is a luxury to those who are highly privileged and supported by philosophers that value intellectual masturbation over the human instinct to live and flourish.
@@acardinalconsideration824 upon watching that video, the arrogance of this ideology became more apparent. Just because YOU came to the conclusion that life is not worth living doesn’t mean others will. This solipsistic ideology doesn’t take into account that maybe your children will view the world differently than you and enjoy life. Anyway thanks for the response, have a good day.
@@fidelcashflo8129 No prob. To be clear, I no longer identify as an ‘Antinatalist’. I just want people to give deeper thought towards what it means to create a human being. ua-cam.com/video/I2hdd--03nM/v-deo.html
Nietzsche's philosophy is aimed at precisely the people you would call decadent. For people who have not won the lottery, Nietzsche's philosophy is ultimately a mockery. It is empty rhetoric for all those who are in need, who must regularly do everything to feed themselves and their families and not go under. In such a situation, what Nietzsche says is completely irrelevant. The real deal is Schopenhauer. No wonder Nietzsche couldn't relate to him much anymore. Schopenhauer understands people and existence, which is why people feel embraced by him and not patronized like with other grandiose philosophies and philosophers or people like you respectively.
It is decadent if you are assuming the only people that hold this belief are privileged westerners. Not true as I have come to find out. But even if that were true, having the privilege to stop long enough to think about the consequences of childbirth, overpopulation and the degradation of the human spirit isn't "intellectual masturbation" any more than what Nietzsche is known for.
@@fidelcashflo8129 we live in a society which circumcises babies....then scratch our heads and wonder where the violence and warrior comes from. Your enjoying life is a made-up construct. It may serve your delusional state. But does little to stop the parade of death and destruction. I have a fetish as it were, I like shopping online Estate sales...Which involves the selling off the junk left by dead former *happy People. It's always the same piles of silly trinkets, silver coins and other trappings of deluded morons with walkers and scooters at the end. I'm always amazed at how similar they are...and how they all ended up dead no matter how many lennox dishes they bought. Their only legacy is a group of family waiting to divide up the money a few linens bring. Oh well they enjoyed life...in heaven they can tell the story about how Bob burned his eyelashes off with a BBQ lighter.
The highest state a human being can graduate to is Celibacy. It is the gateway to wisdom. A detached indifference to the swirl of activity most people never leave. People procreate when they are unable to find the path...out. It is their way of adding time on the clock...they figure I failed maybe the next generation can find the way..Not understanding this process IS the wrong way to begin with. The goal should be to go-away not continue the failed entry. This is why the suffering you see...it stands as a Sentinel warning of the horrors which follow when you convince yourself humans belong here...we don't. Not after the Curse. Even simple Religions tells us we are FALLEN beings. One's who need to be saved. They do not teach that all is great and go party. Even the admission to multiply is a bastardization of the meaning. It is to grow spiritually not sensually. This is yet another signpost to just how degraded the World is. Human rushing around doing little bu rearranging pillows. Every supposed step forward is 2 steps back. Most people do not even see how a human being is nothing more than a parasite. All living off nature and each other. We stand on eons of poop and call it dirt. Antinatalism is the road out of here. At the minimum you stop lottery winners. Confine your shots to the ones on the floor who never made it. If Life mattered all we would do is fvck and have babies. Nobody believes that.
Theres too many of us, and our life and time is now worth nothing. We give it away for minimal wage, and "better" jobs are only better because we compare to minimal wage
I worked minimum wage this year. I worked hard and I intend to continue doing so and make the moat of my life. Things aren't set in stone. Changes can always be made.
I feel like you're glorifying depression. Depressed people do not have magical powers that allow themselves to see the world better than those without depression. Depressed people suffer from an unwarranted negative bias and it means they do not see the world clearly. Antinatalists have somehow flipped this as everyone without depression suffering from an unwarranted positive bias.
Natalists have an overly optimistic view of THEIR (and THEIR children's) future. Not everyone's future. Just THEIR (including THEIR children's) own future. This is why they decide it's a good idea to procreate.
@KateFrancis-eo2rp I would argue they have rational expectations for their future and the future of their children. For example, birth rates fell during the great depression when the future did not look good, but rose greatly after World War 2 concluded when peace had been achieved and the future was brighter.
i agree. i guess there is a little bit of positives in depression but it is mostly negative. Depression makes you look at everything overly-negative this could even be apart of this whole anti-natalist view. I agree with some of what they say but it's extreme overall
You just fail to see the good in life. I know I sound like an evangelical saying this, but life is great. I find it no coincidence that most antinatalists are in suicide watch. You may be fine but general patterns show otherwise
@@hostomelhorsehoarder could be. We’re also realists. We recognize that life isn’t all rainbows and butterflies. So many things could go wrong, for example, statistically you have a 40% chance of getting cancer during your lifetime. That’s too high for me to bring anyone into this shit show.
@@hostomelhorsehoarder it increases as you age, which most people do make it to old age. Notwithstanding, you can develop cancer even as a child. Also, a myriad of other illnesses.
Jack and Zoey are my world but it's not good for them to be around me because I'm really dark at the moment and I don't want them to act this way.....i want them to be kids start a band something like that....if they need me then......i can do something but I don't want to mess them up.
No. People who have kids should have to explain themselves, coz it affects everyone else in society, that kid won't be locked up in some basement, s/he will be a part of society So who gives a shit? we all should, INCLUDING YOU. Who knows those parents might make yet another murderer, psychopath, depressed suicidal person etc
For mine, I've never pretended that my attraction to pessimism is not determined by my depression. From the start I've admitted bias. Because any valuation of Life (good/bad/indifferent/etc) is subjective. Life, itself, has no intrinsic human value. It's only when creatures like ourselves with the misfortune to *have* to apply conscious value to pretty much everything that directly concerns us (ie, being alive), that Life has any actual value, subjective as it is. So most people would rate Life a bit higher out of ten than I would, because they don't have depression or anxiety or any other imposing mental/emotional issues. That's their call. I don't mind arguing my position if it comes to it, but I'm not interested in making any universal claims to the actual value of the experience of Life for everyone and everything. I'll leave that to others - like, for example, those who would say that anyone who doesn't regard Life as "a good thing" is just suffering from some delusion, or needs to be "cured", or is somehow wrong. If it's alright for them to have a subjective view, it's alright for me, and I don't give a rat's if it comes from depression or whatever. I still think I can make a pretty good argument for our existence on this planet being wholly unnecessary at best and incredibly horrible at worst. If pessimism is a delusion based on mental illness, so be it, but I wouldn't know what the optimist delusion is based on other than a profound ignorance of/apathy towards pretty much everything that happens in this miserable world.
Again, complete moral relativism will never not be absolutely insane to me. I don’t suffer with mental illness, I’m currently as happy in my own little subjective life as I’ve ever been, and yet it is abundantly clear that severe states suffering are far more profound/‘meaningful’ than any positive state of bliss could ever be. The people who grasp at the ‘joys of life’ when attempting to justify reproduction are usually in full rationalization-mode. I’m not saying that everyone who intentionally has children are deluded, but it is absolutely safe to say that the ones who genuinely believe that the joys of life outweigh the horror to be found here are obscenely deluded.
I remember reading that Thomas de Quincey loved tea but absolutely hated to make it himself. The labour wasn't worth it, even if the tea was superb. I also heard that Immanuel Kant was furious with impatience for his coffee to be ready, even though he also had a servant making it. I actually have a higher esteem of de Quincey and Kant than of the average optimist/normie/NPC. Positive bias is copium for the people.
I'd say it's irrelevant if one is depressed or not: faulty arguments will remain faulty, and sound arguments will stand, regardless of one's personal mental state. At least IF your opponent is willing to refrain from using ad hominems, that is. If your arguments suck based on their own merits, they would be easily countered anyway, thus it's nonsense to concentrate on the arguer's mood or quality of life.
@@zapan8748 Yes, ad hominem is wrong. It's kind of one of the first thing you learn when studying philosophy, at least in my country. Already back in the days, people said that Schopenhauer seemed to enjoy living on his fathers inheritance, eating at restaurants every day, drinking wine, having affairs with women, playing the flute, going to the opera etc, but in fact, his lifestyle doesn't negate the fact that life is meaningless suffering at all. People with good economy aren't happy, they're just (usually) *suffering less* than the real poor and unfortunate. And as you see in Schopenhauer's case they turned it around; he seemed to enjoy his upper middle class life too much to honestly be a pessimist, although his mother never liked him because of how he always complained over most things. But today no one knows who Johanna Schopenhauer was, unless they already know who her son was🧐
I have the same opinion. I base my view on my life experiences and my family history. I have no intention and interest to argue with anyone at all. If you want to have kids, fine with it. Maybe that would not make me antinatalist; so be it. I don't have the privilege of good quality of life to not make non-relativist arguments because I haven't been into one. Based on my high neurotic family history and day-to-day degrading health, I have come to the decision of being child-free. Another reason I keep things to myself is if I say that people with certain medical conditions, economy, or geography should not have children, that will lead to eco-fascism. That is where moral relativism fails. But that is my personal reason to not have a child. It's just abt me and no one else. Maybe even if we have won a lottery in life, it doesn't take much to realize the intrinsic suffering that is in our life. There's a reason why mahavira and buddha, founder of janism and buddhism, both born into a royal family left their palace.
At some point of your life you will definitely experince THE depression because the core essence of life is Pain and Suffering. Let's see it will happen to you and we talk then again.
While the majority of people may indeed be procreating “thoughtlessly”, as you call it, the types of people who actively make “intellectual” arguments against antinatalism are usually *not* the ones procreating thoughtlessly. On the contrary - especially among the (Abrahamic) religious ones, we find more and more natalist ideologues these days. Few things compel me faster to push back against someone than watching Peterson, Shapiro & Co. doing Olympic-level mental backflips in front of a huge gullible audience - and on top of that, selling their contradictory worldviews as supposedly timeless wisdoms.
I’m convinced that men like Peterson recognize that life is a horrific imposition. They primarily advocate for religion and disregard Antinatalism on the basis of utility. On the obvious basis that the most careless, selfish, deluded, immature human beings among us will always have the most children. Me personally, the last thing I would want to do is convince a kindhearted, intelligent, conscientious person to thwart his desire to have children out of some strict ethical principle, even if I had the potential to do so(which is a very big ‘if’). Genuinely decent human beings are in short supply. I find it to be a far more pressing goal to just attempt to get more people to give deeper thought to the decision and to be more careful as to avoid carelessly bringing an unwanted child into existence, given just how many children are thoughtlessly brought into this hell by complete mistake.
@@acardinalconsideration824 The problems I see with the religious types are more that a) they offer people who made such a thoughtless decision a convenient rationalisation in hindsight, thus protecting them from the cognitive dissonance and other negative consequences of their own decisions, b) they mislead people who are open to entertaining antinatalist ideas, sometimes all the way into becoming staunch religious conservatives, through their mental gymnastics and eloquence, masquerading their own internal contradictions and biases as supposedly deep thoughts, c) pro-lifers in general seem to care more about quantity of individuals than about the circumstances those children are born into. 6-week-old foetuses without consciousness or pain reception have a right to life, apparently, but nobody has a right to universal healthcare - or other social programs that would reduce suffering for those already alive. (This point is more true with regards to Shapiro than for Peterson, since Peterson is Canadian; but now that Peterson is associated with the Daily Wire, their view points might start overlapping more and more.) d) pro-lifers don’t seem to understand that they are the ones who are ultimately also pro-death. What is never born in the first place can also never die.
Depression is a realistic view of the world by taking off their ugly rose tainted glasses freeing themselves off their chained shackles these people most likely if they have any Empathy, Kindness, Compassion in their Hearts ❤️ will come over to Antinatalism to spear any children of suffering they went through themselves.
I think you confuse wanting life with the bad things that come with it. just because I think humans should reproduce at some rate doesn't meean I want them to suffer. Plus you should look into how other cultures view death besides western, perticularly Buddhist and Hindu because they believe things that co contrary to your arugment because of different context.
@@muniaisworthit yet I did not cause suffering by having a child, and I will try to eliminate suffering from its life. It's like not having a phone because at some point it will break.
@@unrealisticfiction4182 except for the phone you are talking about is a non living object owned by you that doesn't feel anything or has no consciousness to experience good and bad things personally I do think that expecting that people would stop having kids is very unrealistic so as long as you take good care of your children it's all good I wish you and your future children happiness
I don't get the "act like it" part. People think they're living their best lives even when they're not and that's the fucking problem. Our judgement is fucked.
Mood intensities (depressed or elated) are irrelevant to a claim's truth-value. You don't believe a person's elation makes their claim must be true (or false). Why? Because you know that a claim-maker's happiness doesn't make their claim true. Same thing with depression. So the "You're depressed" is just an ad hominem attack while the "They're so happy! They must be (in)correct" is either ad hominem or an Appeal to Joyfulness. Appealing to weakness (whether presumed or actual) is also an ad hominem attack, and an Appeal to Spite besides (i.e., kneejerk distaste of weakness, as opposed to that person's deliberately setting out to hurt, harm, or demean others). That attitude tells me more about them than the person they scorn, namely their bigotry against the weak.
@G N Court is about swaying juries, not about pure truth pursuit. Yes, there are superficial similarities but the motive of the lawyer is to win the case by hook or by crook - and they don't even try to hide that end-goal. Science and philiosophy (at least as ideals) have rigorous truth-pursuit as the goal. In the end, the person's mood and the truthfulness of their claims still have nothing to do with each other.
I don't know about mental illness, but I don't find the antinatalist argument compelling when it comes out of the mouth of someone well off. It's disingenuous, really, I couldn't be that deceptive. Not that I'm particularly well off, but my existence is certainly comfortable, above average one might say, as far as people from first world countries go.
I agree, I just made this video to address a weak ad hominem that is often used against the philosophy. I give my views on Antinatalism as a whole in this video: ua-cam.com/video/ZubfWXq_uoM/v-deo.html
Jesus Christ, what a self-righteous prick you are. I’d recommend that you try your hand at a literal masturbation gig on OF over this sanctimonious intellectual masturbation that you’re engaged in here. You might even make a few bucks. Just my two cents.
Well you’re a judgmental asshole 😊
Having a kid is not a kind act. I have a large group of successful friends, most of which have decided not to have kids in their relationships. I can name 20 couples with 6 figure incomes combined that aren't going to have kids. My partner and I fit in this category, and I'm not having kids either. Your attack on him is not addressing his argument. Address the argument and he probably wouldn't have pinned you.
Is this a parody comment for engagement lol? The username is almost exactly the same.
@@SteelWool567 I genuinely believe it to be the most reasonable form of criticism in this comment section thus far. Looking back on this video of mine and others like it, the smug self-righteousness makes me cringe pretty hard.
Although I still ultimately hold just about the same sort of sentiment that was expressed in this vid, I’d like to think that I’ve become at least a bit more self-aware of the grandiose narcissistic way I often conveyed it.
@@acardinalconsideration824 you don’t come off smug in these videos though? You’re only defending a position that the opposition loves to scoff at. You would not have even felt the need to make these videos if it weren’t for the people on the other side constantly critiquing antinatalism
People are so addicted living in a dystopia
Because they are mindless sheep so they need a baby to feel useful.
If they tried to read books, their life would be filled with knowledge.
Depression is NOT a choice, having a child IS
Exactly 💯
This!!! 👏🏽
@GIDEONgame You can't recover from every disease. There are a lot of chronic illnesses. And then there are illnesses that lead to death.
@GIDEONgame
1 day ago
"@Dragumix You can live with them instead of acting like a little b*tch." - Could you please behave like a person with a good character and not insult me and others, please?
"Go take look at Paul Alexander, man can only move his head, still became succesful." - Yes, and how many people in a similar situation didn't become successful and happy?
"I have great respect for people who raise above their illness and make something of their live." - You can't expect people to do so in such situations because they might be unable to do so.
"I dislike people who use it as an excuse and do nothing but complain all the time." - First of all: most people in these situations aren't doing nothing and complaining all the thime. And second: If people are suffering, they have all right to complain. In my opinion, it's very arrogant of you and so many others to demand a lot of people that have to live in bad situations ("live with them instead of acting like a b*tch") that you have never been in in your lives. If you've ever procreated or intend to procreate, you are part of the problem.
"We all suffer, yes, some more than others, but by complaining you just make it infinetly worse." - Complaining can help to get help, so it doesn't make it always worse. Of course at some point you have to change focus for some time to make the best out of the situation.
"You also compared having a child to having a mental illness." - Can you please cite me where I said this?
"Which is deserves a great many ad hominems, but that will bring us nowhere, so I will let go of that for now." - Ad hominems never get us further in the discussion.ff
Out of everything in life that we had a hard time having control having children is the one you have the most control in other than losing weight. The fact that cavemen that couldn't even make fire were having children is testiment to this
It’s always been scary to have kids, but it’s worse now more than ever. There are so many threats now. The worst problem is that people are becoming more ignorant, but living longer low quality lives as you stated. All this risk, just to consume and compete with your neighbors? There’s no sense of community; at least some of our ancestors had that.
That will always heavily depend on who you’ve been brought into existence by. One does not have to look all that far back into history to recognize that this is one of the absolute best times to be alive for hundreds of millions of people. Just the improvements in medical technology alone makes me feel incredibly fortunate to not have been born longer than a couple of centuries ago.
Which is really saying something, considering how the average quality of life in the modern day is quite abysmal.
Future ☢️WAR
@@acardinalconsideration824dude.what are you taking to be so high? Wow. I feel bad for you. Stop hiding
Golden lines : consume and compete with neighbours🎉🎉
@@acardinalconsideration824 No, they're smart. Look at the Manosphere, Redpill and Incels. You want women to breed with those losers? Pass. Rather give the Earth a chance and let humans die
"People with depression see life more realistically."
That's ALL you need to say.
Suuuuuuuure
@@Whocares158 SSSSUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRE
@@AnSturbin Pollyanna principle. Google it.
@@AnSturbinwake up.
@@heavyhead2k139 That sounds more like social anxiety than just depression itself. And it's very common for people *_without_* social anxiety to be nervous about public speaking.
"Life is a gift" -Delusional Person
@G N what is your life like? Do you have zero problems and enough resources to live life exactly how you like? Do you do everything you want and nothing you don’t want to do? Do you have an employer or government entity telling you to pay taxes or get a license just to drive? Just because some people achieve things will sick or disabled, the majority will achieve absolutely nothing. They toiled and suffered for nothing.
@G N tell all your stupid philosophies to hungry children in Afghanistan, the subcontinent, Middle East, South America, and Africa.
Krishna in the Bhagavadgita has said
"Dukhalayam Asasvatam": The material world is a place of suffering and sadness
@G N bullshit life is horrible. Trust me when I say I wish I was never born
Great. Does it come with a receipt?
You lack the framework with which to view life
"Antinatalists are weak people who project their depression..."
...says the person who thinks creating a tiny copy of themselves is the best way to improve happiness.
He clearly trying more then you, weak is polite its cowardly not strength
That’s a gross generalisation of why people have kids and what they think.
But okay. You do you. Thank you for removing yourself from the gene pool 😅
@@Jb-zx2fw Religions has always known having children is the worst kind of suffering you can inflict on yourself.
Having children is materialistic and pleasures of the flesh the opposite of reaching Enlightenment and returning to God/Singularity.
True. They do it merely for their sense of ‘self-importance’. In other words, narcissism detected
@@phoenixclairsentientempath2119 simplifying the motivations of humans through the lens of your own limited experience is a narcissistic thing to do. Irony.
I have had people admit to me, quite blatantly, that the suffering of others is worth it in order for them to be here, enjoying their pizza. Humans are petty and spiteful beyond belief. It is clear that the majority of people would choose to remain in Omelas. Those of us who would walk away are in the extreme minority. It is also clear that people have children in order to vicariously satisfy their curiosity regarding the future. They believe in vicarious immortality, which is an absurd notion. You are not your children. It is not the same consciousness.
A person would have to be a very special breed of stupid in order to believe that the sensual pleasures here for us to indulge in are enough to cover the cost of severe suffering. I refuse to believe that most people who respond that way to the Antinatalist arguments are actually that brain-dead. One would hope that they just haven’t given the philosophy any real level of thought and that most of them don’t genuinely hold that view.
I’ve noticed that most people who genuinely oppose the philosophy do so from more of a consequentialist perspective.
There was one guy on a Swedish forum who told that his father got prostate cancer at about 55 and died from it at about 60. He expects to get it himself at that age and he also expects his eventual sons to get it, but he thinks it's fair, because at least he'll give them the opportunity to experience life...🙄
And most people are incredibly petty. I estimate that even some 50% of us antinatalists think it's better that millions of Ukrainians suffer than that they shall risk nuclear war or even higher costs of living. In another comment to Life is Overrated96 I said that indeed some prices are simply raised with the war as a pretext and that the real reason is greed, but at least in my world we should rather die in a nuclear war than letting Russia have its way - and why would a real antinatalist even have objections to a nuclear war in the first place? You can't seriously call yourself an antinatalist and fear death to the degree that you would miss out on such a great chance to have mankind and most other higher animals eradicated once and for all!
If I found out that people are suffering just to maintain my comfort in life, I would not lose sleep at all.
@@epicotakugamer4930 that's because you have no conscience.
@@ArnoldTohtFan Keep coping, bozo.
I am a yoga teacher on preply.
Teaching ancient authentic yoga philosophy.( The highest wisdom)
I really dont want to make babies.
Only weaker beings procreate , to feel power, security. powerful ppl live like lion and roam free.
This world is evil. I do not understand why reacting in accordance with that (beeing sad) is called sick. Shouldn't it be called "sick" to be happy in hell?
It really is a crazy place we live in! I knew evil existed since I was a child but now at 43 I just can’t believe the actual level of evil that exists in this world. If you ever watch a cat or dog take care of their offspring it’s so precious how they guard their babies with their life including father cats and dogs. If you look around you at humans so many have kids and don’t take good care of them at all. How many children are living with a single parent and so many kids don’t have their mother or father! It’s mind boggling how animals have more common sense and decency than humans do. There are people out here killing and abusing their own children! Sadder yet other people might know children are being abused and do nothing about it. I’m so glad I never had kids. The cost of living is so high that people making 6 figures a year can barely survive. I seriously feel sorry for all the children that are born and suffer through this life because people that don’t have a good childhood do suffer for life!
Only evil people will tell you that you are sick for not liking this evil world. Evil likes evil and good people recognize that this world is evil.
There are some good people, but it is hard to find. Some people that are not evil are good for nothing.
There are many people of all ages that have been abused by their parents/family.
To anyone that is depressed, you are not the problem. It is those that abused you that are the problem.
Could be family, school, work, etc.
I always tell people that the ones that need help are the abusers, not the victims.
If these people were dealt with properly, a person's depression would go away.
Many people don't speak to their parents anymore because of all types of abuse/neglect. In many cases even other family members like grandparents, aunty or uncles didn't even care. I know of many people that have experienced this.
Many of these families are financially secure too. Money is not a problem, they are just bad family members.
A kid born into a struggling family isn't good either.
Then the cycle just continues of bringing kids into a world where nobody cares about them.
This isn't just abuse, it is evil and is a crime.
Some abusers were also abused and will just continue the problem.
Some people understand this and won't bring a child here.
Good parents will have a hard time raising kids in a world like this.
A good parent will have to be in reality whether they like it or not.
This world is not evil and it is not hell. That's just your subjective fringe minority opinion. You're not better than us
A lot of people who think life is a gift do drugs regularly, drink alcohol, watch filthy content-movies killing people, and engage other reckless activities like sex. If life itself is a gift, you wouldn’t need drugs, alcohol, sex, Or entertainment. Nothing more than food, water, clothing, and shelter should be enough.
Wow you discovered hedonism
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Yes! And these are the same people that make living on this earth feel even more unbearable. Sick of being surrounded by selfish, irresponsible, sickos.
? That makes no sense at all.
One of humans BIGGEST copes: Religion/God delusion. Most of them even claim they are procreating for this God. As if some true powerful beings would need the existence of cancerous humans.
Having a child is highest egoism.
You can also reverse that and say it is absolutely egotistical for you to decide whether or not a future potential human should have the right to live based on your subjective experience of life.
“But there’s suffering”
Yes. So? Do you just impose your value hierarchy onto the unborn and everyone else?
“Oh you ‘natalists’, you are biased by your positivity”
Oh you anti-natalists, you are biased by your negativity.
This entire anti-natalism cancels itself out if you’re willing to go deep enough. It’s all centred around the subjective opinion that there being any suffering in life means that it’s better to not have existed at all.
Which is a subjective personal opinion that you cannot project unto someone else, yet the anti-natalists try.
@I suppose to you the pleasures in life for the “positive people” are worth the suffering of the “negative people”. A lot of “negative people”, or miserable people are the way they are not by choice. Think of all the children being trafficked. The horrifying hell they live in every day so that you can enjoy your pizza. So that you can feel “positive”. I’m sure many of the parents of children who are trafficked never expected their children to be kidnapped. Life is a gamble. And gambling with a life is no joke. But hey, these kids will stay sex slaves for the rich and powerful. And you can enjoy your pizza. I’m wishing you pleasant breeding. Hopefully your children can also enjoy their pizza in peace. And never become victim to pizza gate.
Ultimately, the future potential human cannot consent to being born. So, for better or for worse, you're forcing it into this world, and the only way it can leave is through the most brutal, depraved, unfortunate way a human can leave. It's a rigged contract, and spawning humans in without their consent is pretty egotistical... It's probably fine if the child has a very safe surrounding throughout their life, because then they can experience plenty of joy, inspire others, be a contribution to society, but it does seem immoral to create 10 humans in starving AFRICA just to try get free labour and help with chores.
Good video. I do suffer from intermittent depression and I do think that it's made me have a more realistic worldview, and now I can never un-see it. The only difference in my worldview between when I'm depressed and when I'm not, is that when I'm not I have the energy and motivation to do things to try to improve the lives of the other people who are stuck in this life along with me, and when I'm depressed I don't have that energy and motivation to help others or myself.
There's a reason poor people have more children
my joke is the universe made me a gay man because the universe knew I was an anti-natalist . Things work out like that
Danny reflection light burns out on you
I'm a lesbo and also antinatalist
Luck you are
@@angelflora8468 * sapphist
I don’t have kids because of capitalism.
Why would I want to bring a life into a world of suffering of the many for the pleasure of the few?
@G N Capitalism will seek out any community in the name of money, setting up Walmarts and Amazon warehouses to "branch into the community" while becoming the biggest employer for that community, and sucking all the money of said community into the hands of the owner class.
Better to destroy the cancer than to wait it out.
Don't forget capitalism is *the* leading factor in climate change. Which one will die first, capitalism, or out planet?
Answer: the planet, and when it does, people like Elon Musk will seek out a new planet to continue capitalism for their rich elites.
@G N Protect those books. Fascists will come to destroy anything that takes power away from them, including books that help people survive outside of cities and religious texts.
@G N although I disagree with your arguments wholeheartedly, I will agree to protect any sacred texts you have. Fahrenheit 451 was a warning, not fiction.
The Venus Project The Next Stage In Human Evolution?
Facts capitalism evil system.
I support people stopping and thinking hard before having kids or not having them at all. Life is suffering most of the time
Pessimism is realism and is the most logical outlook to have.
@G N Being optimistic always leads to disappointment.
@@TheFracturedfuture Or your right and its satisfying, and you usually bring the mood of those around you up, therefore making their life more enjoyable.
You are a sad human being.
Your claim seems intellectual, until you scratch beneath the surface
Gotta keep it balanced out with a bit of stoicism, because we unfortunately have to accept we can't change most things
We never had a choice to be born or not, parents are selfish for bringing their kids into this horrible world.
breeder mind is controlled by a parasite called dna
Amen, Billy!
Have you ever thought of kids who actually enjoy life?
@@theceoofeggmansempire5214 Yes. I figured what having kids is like loading 5 rounds and playing Russian roulette with some other person's life. I refuse to do it.
@@skylinefever Ok, then don't
People who hesitate to have kids, shouldn't have in the first place. U did the right choice
Excellent video, people claim life is a gift but they treat their bodies and mind poorly.
they say life is a gift.....and then they cry quietly when noone is watching🤡
@@antib_reader ??
Most people are on the slow-motion suicide plan. If they were serious they would not take the risks they do. They want to die. Once you SEE this, life changes for you.
Once you understand what FEELS good in this life leads to death..you see it. Dopamine literally frys whatever pleasure you thought existed and then presents you will one of 2 choices...live dead or die. Ask a surviving meathead they will tell you. We have people to day who have whacked off to porn so much they literally cannot get stiff with a real partner. Millions of others who have fried their brains on video games to the point life outside is a total snore now.
People with babies are depressed, can't sleep and are sad.
Childless people are always smiling, joyful, active .
@@Helga7850no people are miserable with and without, you want happiness achieve it
🐦don't know man I'm not depressed still not gonna have kids.
Life is painful for all. More so for those in Africa than Denmark but still. Majority of people have children for selfish reasons such as not dying alone. Love your child and don’t let it be born.
*“You don’t wanna unnecessarily gamble with your child’s safety?! You must be miserable!”* 😂
Trueee
Amazing video!! Sucks a lot that a majority of natalists don't even attempt to make an effort to understand antinatalist ideology. It's so much easier to declare the philosophy as demonic or conflate with nihilism/pro-mortalism bc it forces a person to think deeply which is very uncomfortable. Unpacking messages they were raised with from media + family, choosing ethics over biological urges, plus religious brainwashing makes it so difficult to have these convos. You're mostly talking to a brick wall, but I hope you keep making these videos bc there some people out there who will choose compassion
😊❤💌
I'm a childfree Christian. Going against the grain, to be sure.
A gift is something a being with a conscience can appreciate. A gift can also be unnecessary things that you either re-gift or throw away. Life may be a gift to some of us, conscious beings, but it is not to a being that doesn’t exist. And to some of us, the gift of life is trash.
Before you have children, there are millions of things to consider.
This world IS depressing anyway. We did the right thing not bringing them here.
Question:
Is your life perfect?
Have you ever suffered emotional and mental turmoil?
Have you ever been sick?
Ever run out of money?
Maybe you've not been able to pay for essential amenities?
Having children is wrong.🎉
You make one huge jump between those questions and that conclusion.
Even both the voyager satellites didn’t travel that far from earth.
All kidding aside: hardship != moral reason to not have others exist.
Unless you subjectively view any type of hardship as unbearable, but that is your personal view.
It’s subjective.
Your forefathers and mothers must be proud of you to end their entire lineage on a quest for moral superiority.
True Gnosticism. Avoid encapsulating spirits in the flesh prisons.
"Your forefathers and mothers must be proud of you to end their entire lineage on a quest for moral superiority."
Just from reading the wording of your comments, it seems to me that you believe the nonexistent/the unborn and the dead have feelings, needs and desires. If you feel this is true and can scientifically prove it, please point me in the direction where I can learn more.
no they are not weak, they are conscious of the real negative nature of life and therefore consciously chose not to have children. Most people who are having children are not even natalists, but unconscious automatons who live like robots and unconsciously do things society expects from them. ´
Step 1 is to stop lying to yourself. Realize that life is only about surviving. The money / salary hierarchy is just a copy of the natural food chain. Which means having children is equivalent to put new beings into the misery here. Which is the most evil thing you can do.
People who succumb to their desire to bring life into this hellhole are the ones who are weak. You were so desperate to create a mini version of yourself that you procreated without even stopping to consider the effects your selfish actions would have on your child or children. Even those who thoroughly consider the consequences of bringing new life into this world still end up creating a child/ren instead of adopting those who already exist and are suffering.
@G N
An excuse for more suffering.
Next going there pro-sufferer.
I think human life needs to continue. Suffering is inevitable.
@G N
Hahaha hell yeah dude.
@G N based and indomitable power of the human spirit pilled
G N anyway you and your children will get sick, weaken, get old and diseases that come with oldhood... that's unavoidable even if you think love, strength, hope is enough to solve life problems...
Sickness, weakness, entropy, death are greatest and unbeatable.
Explaining personal childfree position (i never and never will try to convince other ppl to not have children) by depression is intellectual laziness and a way to try to discredit anyone who does not share your life choices.
I have the chance to be born in a middle class french family in a rich and developed country with no serious dysfunctions but even so, i realized pretty soon, around my 15 16, that life is mostly a source of boredom, constraint, suffering, solitude and frustration until we die, and before we die, unless it is by accident, we will face intolerable suffering. We have little glimpse of happiness but they are short and fleeting. The rest of time we live neutral to bad periods.
Life isnt worst it, we still remain in life mostly because we did't want to suffer and to make the one we love suffer to but if we would have the opportunity, nobody will choose to have a second chance to live.
Sometimes i have to admit, i hate my parents to give me birth cause most of the time i wish i never been born at all. Nice try.
Monseigneur est en bisbille avec l'existence ?
@@planteruines5619 je crois que mon commentaire précédent était assez clair
@@pmlectures1 en plus je suis pas d'accord, notre pays a plein de problèmes , il est en train de se fragmenter et personne ne fait rien . On tue la France et aucune réaction
Having a baby can cause depression. Postpartum depression. Also I passed down my mental health issues to my son. I should have never gotten pregnant. I was a teenager though and not watched or cared for. My son has had a great life, both parents and good home. Still the DNA 🧬 found a way to fuck him over. He's 30 and child free because this world is so volatile.
I love that you recognize this. Thank you.
Now that child is forced to suffer because of you.
Way too go Breeder.
@@Whocares158granny
Even tho it’s so obvious they’ll still tell you that you’re depressed and therefore need to be disregarded lol
I love your video and I'm an antinatalist because I believe my relatively joyous existence doesn't justify the horrors of this reality.
Enjoy the museum and look forward to returning home.
Preach it!
Awesome comment
@@heavyhead2k139your joy is guaranteed to come to an end one day. enjoy your fist full of karma then that you’re creating now
This is like telling a cancer patient you are depressed there's nothing else wrong with you
Life is a curse and a satanic evil
No human corporal vessel, no depression.
having children is child abuse Parents should be responcible for that child for all the life CHEERS
The more ignorant the more they breed. Smart people don't breed. The reason is self evident why its a silly idea. But the dumbazzes are winning the race. maybe you have noticed?
Im antinatalist bro .
So you think you have a right to test if having child will be happy or be depressed. Some sick test..
The screaming and screeching of babies everywhere is evidence the babies are upset that their selfish parents forced them into a very evil world.
Exactly.. they know this place is inherently bad. The pain of pregnancy is another sign it isn’t a good idea. The joy of sex proves there is an evil agenda on this prison planet, it’s a form of artifice.
Or they just are whiny and dumb
Agreed.
@seriously_why "Love is a trick nature plays to get us to reproduce. I want no part of it" - Callisto
Ok man, i thought i was overthinker but THIS is too much
In short, my primary goal with these videos is in attempting to get other humans to give deeper consideration to their own decision as to wether or not to have children with someone. As well as to remind younger folks to be more careful when fucking with one another, considering that *over 25% of the population are brought into existence as a mere consequence of the pleasures of sex on the young mind. Not even as a deliberate decision, let alone a well thought-out one.*
You don’t have to be an ‘Antinatalist’ to recognize that this level of negligence is insanely fucked up. The causes of this carelessness are clearly multifaceted, but much of it lies in a steep underestimation of the potential for severe consequences. And these prospective consequences are what I’m attempting to convey here.
Here’s a recent video in which I highlight my primary aim when it comes to discussing this topic ‘Many People Don’t Give a Single Shit About Their Own Kids’ ua-cam.com/video/d07w3N8GVw4/v-deo.html
In ancient Indian culture. There's a belief that lif is actually given by God as a punishment for our ba deeds. He gives us multiple lives. Beginning with a human. Depending upon our deeds he gives us life as human or some other creature. A life spent without any evil deeds will cause a person to attain moksha (freedom from the cycle of life and death). The person will be freed from all the type of suffering.
A conundrum, real or weak people?
@@abhisheknahar7363 "He gives us multiple lives" - Ok, why was i given the first life when i did nt exist and did nt commit anything good or bad?
I mean, when i was having zero lives who gave me 1 life? Why god is so evil?
The greats of this world want as many future slaves as possible to be born on this earth, future consumers of goods and ideas that allow this small handful of privileged to use the majority.
When I talk about it in the context of my childfree life, I don't care to explain to all supporters of joyful reproduction that thoughtlessness, selfishness or imaginary self-esteem are justifications. I know that I belong to a minority that has not been happily burned at the stake yet.
version pour Frankophone:
Les grands de ce monde veulent voir naître sur cette terre un maximum de futurs esclaves, futurs consommateurs de biens et d'idées qui permettent à cette petite poignée de privilégiés d'utiliser la majorité.
Quand j'en parle dans le contexte de ma vie sans enfant, je me fiche d'expliquer à tous les partisans de la reproduction joyeuse que l'insouciance, l'égoïsme ou l'estime de soi imaginaire sont des justifications. Je sais que j'appartiens à une minorité qui n'a pas encore été joyeusement brûlée sur le bûcher.
Version für deutschsprachig
Die Großen dieser Welt wollen, dass so viele zukünftige Sklaven wie möglich auf dieser Erde geboren werden, zukünftige Konsumenten von Gütern und Ideen, die es dieser kleinen Handvoll Privilegierter ermöglichen, die Mehrheit zu nutzen.
Wenn ich im Zusammenhang mit meinem kinderlosen Leben darüber spreche, möchte ich allen Befürwortern der freudigen Fortpflanzung nicht erklären, dass Gedankenlosigkeit, Egoismus oder eingebildetes Selbstwertgefühl Rechtfertigungen sind. Ich weiß, dass ich zu einer Minderheit gehöre, die noch nicht glücklich auf dem Scheiterhaufen verbrannt wurde.
@AK Da AntiNatalist I like you.. a lot.
@GIDEONgame "shts people say when they don't have an argument" - exhibit A
So you're saying you people WANT to be burned at the stake?
Depression is not an illness, you See the truth, you See life for what it is
Irony is a reactionary calling others weak.
Very strong. We gotta get an antinatalist workshop-getaway together somehow.
:)
The bible itself says woe unto them that give suck in the last days which we are in.
Good luck passing your problems on to your children and thinking that is an achievement 😂
Very good video, continue to communicate on this so important and taboo subject in order to awaken the conscience of a maximum of people.
Many people are afraid of death and believe that they will escape it through their children; what an illusion!
Many use children to cure themselves of their psychopathologies, people need to realize that all these motivations are not ethical, selfish and criminal, especially since the child has no choice, life is imposed on him...
I agree they have psychopathologies that is why they have children their sadistic desires will be satisfied.
Yeah selfish! Cause the man made religions said that giving birth saves women! Lmao religion always didn’t say no to slavery. That old book was made by people that were control freaks in power.
Everyone & everything will die someday. Yes, we are here to endure suffering. We are here to try to overcome suffering. Death & suffering is a tool that is used to try to help people remember their frailty. To hopefully inspire empathy & love but it does not usually produce this effect.
For most, it has produced a coldness & birthed the realism of inevitable cruelty. It is my belief most if not all humans are inherently selfish, fueled by ego, greed, & self-preservation. Not everyone intends to hurt those in their vicinity but you will inevitably hurt those in your path regardless of your intentions. It's more the result of collateral damage & friendly fire as a consequence of limited perspective & lack of self-awareness. When you understand this, everything loses an offensive stance as it becomes inevitable & not personal. All people are reactive to the living things in their environment until they are made aware of of this design. That's not to say that all life is full of moments of suffering. There is also joy.
Depression is a realistic view of the world by taking off their ugly rose tainted glasses freeing themselves off their chained shackles these people most likely if they have any Empathy, Kindness, Compassion in their Hearts ❤️ will come over to Antinatalism to spear any children of suffering they went through themselves.
Why mosy people don't see pain in life?
Coping mechanism
We can. We can also see the good in it
in islamic teaching theres a thing called qonaah, which means the feeling of content so why worried about the future? everythings are already been decided anyway & whats more theres god who control everything so anything cant go wrong if gods around. hence i am antinatalist & i dont believed in god or religion, just some made up bullshittery ideology.
"Your life is a gift that your parents offered themselves."
Great vid, man. I also strongly think that Antinatalism is best combined with Determinism and NFW, for a truly deep moral understanding of the picture of existence.
Nfw?
@@Sarahizahhsum No Free Will
Sounds like some gaslighting bullshit of parents trying to domineer their child
Yes bc they thought it's funny to watch a innocent person die slowly
@@Zex-4729 Even if that were true, and it's certainly not true that we understand the link between what appears to be true randomness at the level of subatomic particles and anything that goes on at the higher levels (which does indeed appear to be reliably deterministic), it would still seem exactly same way from our perspective, i.e. like everything is mere luck. Fate/destiny means that whatever happens happens IN SPITE of the causes (it's a nonsensical mystical perspective), while determinism means that whatever happens happens BECAUSE of the causes. I would say that as long as we can have 3 nanometer processes function completely deterministically, it's rather safe to say that our brains are just as deterministic... For reference, the cell body of the smallest neurons are 4 microns in size, which translates to 4000 nanometers.
Agree with everything you say in this video. Love the point about how people are blissfully unaware (wilfully blind) as to the hundreds of bullets they have dodged by sheer good luck.
If we are 'weak' and suffer depression, it's best to NOT have children right...?
Yes .if you want to die then die bro go one is stopping you by natural means ofc not suicide
@@kleidicani I'm a woman by the way.... And I don't want to die. I just don't want to bring another life into this world.
@@doloresvangaal2248 a solid 15% of people never have kids. Most people have way fewer kids than they could...even they understand the futility of it.
The pressure to breed comes from monied interests who's systems and machines eat people. Some call it market share, others eyeballs. growth growth growth...in the US they PAY people to bred...the lower the IQ the better.
@@johndough23It's sad and exploitative. Also a reason I don't breed 'cogs' for the machine.
Well maybe they are compassionate enough to not want another person to be depressed. That is what I say to those people.
It would be more insane of me knowing I need a pill to make me happy which in the end just caused more pain but still believe i can bring a child into this world believing their world would be a happy one.... doesn't make sense....
evil=live😧
Antinatalism/Efilism🥂
in german the reversed word for life is fog. Which also is exactly what it is. You don´t know who you are, where you come from, where you go and what to do here. Like walking through thick fog withoug any orientation at all.
Argument destroys itself
World is full of suffering so people gets depressed
So why you want to put a child in this depressed world 😂😂😂
And sooner or later everybody gets depressed 😂
You’re very eloquent, thanks for sharing your spot-on insights on this topic. Subscribed! 😊
Thats what I like about Sophocles, he had it all: he was good looking, smart, popular, successful etc. and yet he said that it would be better to never have been born.
I love this guy.
also gloryfing depression like it 'allows you to see the world clearly' made me literally think 'holy cope'.
all joy in this world is temporary superficial crap. While the deep fundament is evil. Watch watch?v=uVnDJMjNySg&t=6s and tell me how this can be any good. Humanity created this modern society to get away from crappy, evil nature. But to do this, you need slaves who produce and run things in this society. Which has created the greed for money. Which is really a will expression for more freedom, because with more money you have more choices and less dependancy of others. But even the wish for freedom (=money) is connected to misery/slavery for others.
You have to be very superficial and ignorant to find this positive.
I have less respect for Nietzsche since I realised how much he contributed to popularising the ad-hominem fallacy. He seemed to be more interested in what a given worldview said about the person that held it than in the accuracy of the worldview itself. And Nietzsche’s modern fans, like Jordan Peterson, employ that same logic, at least specifically when arguing against antinatalists (and, in a wider sense, when arguing with atheists).
J. P. is a true moron. That's for sure. One cannot say much more about him.
I'm anti-natalist, and love so much your videos, but unfortunately i can't understand English language, always i switch on Arabic subtile, but when i download the video i can't see Arabic subtile, please can you make your videos with Arabic subtile🙏🏻🙏🏻
Great video. Thank you
Nietzsche would refer to this antinatalist ideology as decadent. An ideology that is a luxury to those who are highly privileged and supported by philosophers that value intellectual masturbation over the human instinct to live and flourish.
@@acardinalconsideration824 upon watching that video, the arrogance of this ideology became more apparent. Just because YOU came to the conclusion that life is not worth living doesn’t mean others will. This solipsistic ideology doesn’t take into account that maybe your children will view the world differently than you and enjoy life. Anyway thanks for the response, have a good day.
@@fidelcashflo8129 No prob. To be clear, I no longer identify as an ‘Antinatalist’. I just want people to give deeper thought towards what it means to create a human being. ua-cam.com/video/I2hdd--03nM/v-deo.html
Nietzsche's philosophy is aimed at precisely the people you would call decadent. For people who have not won the lottery, Nietzsche's philosophy is ultimately a mockery. It is empty rhetoric for all those who are in need, who must regularly do everything to feed themselves and their families and not go under. In such a situation, what Nietzsche says is completely irrelevant. The real deal is Schopenhauer. No wonder Nietzsche couldn't relate to him much anymore. Schopenhauer understands people and existence, which is why people feel embraced by him and not patronized like with other grandiose philosophies and philosophers or people like you respectively.
It is decadent if you are assuming the only people that hold this belief are privileged westerners. Not true as I have come to find out. But even if that were true, having the privilege to stop long enough to think about the consequences of childbirth, overpopulation and the degradation of the human spirit isn't "intellectual masturbation" any more than what Nietzsche is known for.
@@fidelcashflo8129 we live in a society which circumcises babies....then scratch our heads and wonder where the violence and warrior comes from. Your enjoying life is a made-up construct. It may serve your delusional state.
But does little to stop the parade of death and destruction.
I have a fetish as it were, I like shopping online Estate sales...Which involves the selling off the junk left by dead former *happy People. It's always the same piles of silly trinkets, silver coins and other trappings of deluded morons with walkers and scooters at the end. I'm always amazed at how similar they are...and how they all ended up dead no matter how many lennox dishes they bought. Their only legacy is a group of family waiting to divide up the money a few linens bring.
Oh well they enjoyed life...in heaven they can tell the story about how Bob burned his eyelashes off with a BBQ lighter.
The highest state a human being can graduate to is Celibacy. It is the gateway to wisdom. A detached indifference to the swirl of activity most people never leave. People procreate when they are unable to find the path...out. It is their way of adding time on the clock...they figure I failed maybe the next generation can find the way..Not understanding this process IS the wrong way to begin with. The goal should be to go-away not continue the failed entry. This is why the suffering you see...it stands as a Sentinel warning of the horrors which follow when you convince yourself humans belong here...we don't. Not after the Curse.
Even simple Religions tells us we are FALLEN beings. One's who need to be saved. They do not teach that all is great and go party. Even the admission to multiply is a bastardization of the meaning. It is to grow spiritually not sensually. This is yet another signpost to just how degraded the World is. Human rushing around doing little bu rearranging pillows. Every supposed step forward is 2 steps back. Most people do not even see how a human being is nothing more than a parasite. All living off nature and each other. We stand on eons of poop and call it dirt.
Antinatalism is the road out of here. At the minimum you stop lottery winners. Confine your shots to the ones on the floor who never made it. If Life mattered all we would do is fvck and have babies. Nobody believes that.
yes i'm weak.
This dude looks depressed
Self projection
Cope
@@Sarahizahhsum im just saying, it's true.
Theres too many of us, and our life and time is now worth nothing. We give it away for minimal wage, and "better" jobs are only better because we compare to minimal wage
I worked minimum wage this year. I worked hard and I intend to continue doing so and make the moat of my life. Things aren't set in stone. Changes can always be made.
@@catcadevyou got this dude. thats a positive mindset
3:30 That’s the source of all of it - the insanely high hubris breeders must possess in order to do what they do
Let the human race die out. Earth will become beautiful. 💐
Nah at this point climate change will kill earth if we don't stop it, existing or not
It will be so pretty. ❤
@@hostomelhorsehoarderyou're very ignorant dude
There can be an earth with humans in it. What we build can be just as beautiful as what Nature has built.
Yes I am a weak person that projects my depression.
Next question.
I feel like you're glorifying depression. Depressed people do not have magical powers that allow themselves to see the world better than those without depression. Depressed people suffer from an unwarranted negative bias and it means they do not see the world clearly. Antinatalists have somehow flipped this as everyone without depression suffering from an unwarranted positive bias.
Natalists have an overly optimistic view of THEIR (and THEIR children's) future. Not everyone's future. Just THEIR (including THEIR children's) own future. This is why they decide it's a good idea to procreate.
@KateFrancis-eo2rp I would argue they have rational expectations for their future and the future of their children. For example, birth rates fell during the great depression when the future did not look good, but rose greatly after World War 2 concluded when peace had been achieved and the future was brighter.
i agree. i guess there is a little bit of positives in depression but it is mostly negative. Depression makes you look at everything overly-negative this could even be apart of this whole anti-natalist view. I agree with some of what they say but it's extreme overall
I’m happy as hell but an antinatalist. Riddle me this 😅
You just fail to see the good in life. I know I sound like an evangelical saying this, but life is great. I find it no coincidence that most antinatalists are in suicide watch. You may be fine but general patterns show otherwise
@@hostomelhorsehoarder could be. We’re also realists. We recognize that life isn’t all rainbows and butterflies. So many things could go wrong, for example, statistically you have a 40% chance of getting cancer during your lifetime. That’s too high for me to bring anyone into this shit show.
@@andreal5947 can you tell me the likelihood by age for cancer? It tells a different story
@@andreal5947 life sucks in a lot of ways, yet it still is amazing because of whatever good there is. this is called nihilistic optimism
@@hostomelhorsehoarder it increases as you age, which most people do make it to old age. Notwithstanding, you can develop cancer even as a child. Also, a myriad of other illnesses.
Jack and Zoey are my world but it's not good for them to be around me because I'm really dark at the moment and I don't want them to act this way.....i want them to be kids start a band something like that....if they need me then......i can do something but I don't want to mess them up.
They not weak
They have some good points on why they are antinatalist i can understand why
when you don't have a good argument you just try and manipulate people
Is that so bad?
Why take that chance, fear of being alone. At least we don't act animal on our depression
If you want kids have them. If you don't then don't have them. Who gives a shit?
No. People who have kids should have to explain themselves, coz it affects everyone else in society, that kid won't be locked up in some basement, s/he will be a part of society
So who gives a shit? we all should, INCLUDING YOU. Who knows those parents might make yet another murderer, psychopath, depressed suicidal person etc
For mine, I've never pretended that my attraction to pessimism is not determined by my depression. From the start I've admitted bias. Because any valuation of Life (good/bad/indifferent/etc) is subjective. Life, itself, has no intrinsic human value. It's only when creatures like ourselves with the misfortune to *have* to apply conscious value to pretty much everything that directly concerns us (ie, being alive), that Life has any actual value, subjective as it is.
So most people would rate Life a bit higher out of ten than I would, because they don't have depression or anxiety or any other imposing mental/emotional issues. That's their call. I don't mind arguing my position if it comes to it, but I'm not interested in making any universal claims to the actual value of the experience of Life for everyone and everything. I'll leave that to others - like, for example, those who would say that anyone who doesn't regard Life as "a good thing" is just suffering from some delusion, or needs to be "cured", or is somehow wrong.
If it's alright for them to have a subjective view, it's alright for me, and I don't give a rat's if it comes from depression or whatever. I still think I can make a pretty good argument for our existence on this planet being wholly unnecessary at best and incredibly horrible at worst. If pessimism is a delusion based on mental illness, so be it, but I wouldn't know what the optimist delusion is based on other than a profound ignorance of/apathy towards pretty much everything that happens in this miserable world.
Again, complete moral relativism will never not be absolutely insane to me. I don’t suffer with mental illness, I’m currently as happy in my own little subjective life as I’ve ever been, and yet it is abundantly clear that severe states suffering are far more profound/‘meaningful’ than any positive state of bliss could ever be.
The people who grasp at the ‘joys of life’ when attempting to justify reproduction are usually in full rationalization-mode. I’m not saying that everyone who intentionally has children are deluded, but it is absolutely safe to say that the ones who genuinely believe that the joys of life outweigh the horror to be found here are obscenely deluded.
I remember reading that Thomas de Quincey loved tea but absolutely hated to make it himself. The labour wasn't worth it, even if the tea was superb. I also heard that Immanuel Kant was furious with impatience for his coffee to be ready, even though he also had a servant making it. I actually have a higher esteem of de Quincey and Kant than of the average optimist/normie/NPC. Positive bias is copium for the people.
I'd say it's irrelevant if one is depressed or not: faulty arguments will remain faulty, and sound arguments will stand, regardless of one's personal mental state. At least IF your opponent is willing to refrain from using ad hominems, that is.
If your arguments suck based on their own merits, they would be easily countered anyway, thus it's nonsense to concentrate on the arguer's mood or quality of life.
@@zapan8748 Yes, ad hominem is wrong. It's kind of one of the first thing you learn when studying philosophy, at least in my country.
Already back in the days, people said that Schopenhauer seemed to enjoy living on his fathers inheritance, eating at restaurants every day, drinking wine, having affairs with women, playing the flute, going to the opera etc, but in fact, his lifestyle doesn't negate the fact that life is meaningless suffering at all. People with good economy aren't happy, they're just (usually) *suffering less* than the real poor and unfortunate.
And as you see in Schopenhauer's case they turned it around; he seemed to enjoy his upper middle class life too much to honestly be a pessimist, although his mother never liked him because of how he always complained over most things. But today no one knows who Johanna Schopenhauer was, unless they already know who her son was🧐
I have the same opinion. I base my view on my life experiences and my family history. I have no intention and interest to argue with anyone at all. If you want to have kids, fine with it. Maybe that would not make me antinatalist; so be it. I don't have the privilege of good quality of life to not make non-relativist arguments because I haven't been into one. Based on my high neurotic family history and day-to-day degrading health, I have come to the decision of being child-free. Another reason I keep things to myself is if I say that people with certain medical conditions, economy, or geography should not have children, that will lead to eco-fascism. That is where moral relativism fails. But that is my personal reason to not have a child. It's just abt me and no one else.
Maybe even if we have won a lottery in life, it doesn't take much to realize the intrinsic suffering that is in our life. There's a reason why mahavira and buddha, founder of janism and buddhism, both born into a royal family left their palace.
At some point of your life you will definitely experince THE depression because the core essence of life is Pain and Suffering. Let's see it will happen to you and we talk then again.
Thank you for this channel!
😃 Another person who understands me ❤.
While the majority of people may indeed be procreating “thoughtlessly”, as you call it, the types of people who actively make “intellectual” arguments against antinatalism are usually *not* the ones procreating thoughtlessly. On the contrary - especially among the (Abrahamic) religious ones, we find more and more natalist ideologues these days.
Few things compel me faster to push back against someone than watching Peterson, Shapiro & Co. doing Olympic-level mental backflips in front of a huge gullible audience - and on top of that, selling their contradictory worldviews as supposedly timeless wisdoms.
I’m convinced that men like Peterson recognize that life is a horrific imposition. They primarily advocate for religion and disregard Antinatalism on the basis of utility. On the obvious basis that the most careless, selfish, deluded, immature human beings among us will always have the most children.
Me personally, the last thing I would want to do is convince a kindhearted, intelligent, conscientious person to thwart his desire to have children out of some strict ethical principle, even if I had the potential to do so(which is a very big ‘if’). Genuinely decent human beings are in short supply.
I find it to be a far more pressing goal to just attempt to get more people to give deeper thought to the decision and to be more careful as to avoid carelessly bringing an unwanted child into existence, given just how many children are thoughtlessly brought into this hell by complete mistake.
@@acardinalconsideration824 The problems I see with the religious types are more that
a) they offer people who made such a thoughtless decision a convenient rationalisation in hindsight, thus protecting them from the cognitive dissonance and other negative consequences of their own decisions,
b) they mislead people who are open to entertaining antinatalist ideas, sometimes all the way into becoming staunch religious conservatives, through their mental gymnastics and eloquence, masquerading their own internal contradictions and biases as supposedly deep thoughts,
c) pro-lifers in general seem to care more about quantity of individuals than about the circumstances those children are born into. 6-week-old foetuses without consciousness or pain reception have a right to life, apparently, but nobody has a right to universal healthcare - or other social programs that would reduce suffering for those already alive. (This point is more true with regards to Shapiro than for Peterson, since Peterson is Canadian; but now that Peterson is associated with the Daily Wire, their view points might start overlapping more and more.)
d) pro-lifers don’t seem to understand that they are the ones who are ultimately also pro-death. What is never born in the first place can also never die.
Depression is a realistic view of the world by taking off their ugly rose tainted glasses freeing themselves off their chained shackles these people most likely if they have any Empathy, Kindness, Compassion in their Hearts ❤️ will come over to Antinatalism to spear any children of suffering they went through themselves.
Just kick the bucket instead of complaining
I think you confuse wanting life with the bad things that come with it. just because I think humans should reproduce at some rate doesn't meean I want them to suffer. Plus you should look into how other cultures view death besides western, perticularly Buddhist and Hindu because they believe things that co contrary to your arugment because of different context.
yeah it's understandable that you don't want them to suffer but sadly many of them will suffer
@@muniaisworthit yet I did not cause suffering by having a child, and I will try to eliminate suffering from its life. It's like not having a phone because at some point it will break.
@@unrealisticfiction4182 except for the phone you are talking about is a non living object owned by you that doesn't feel anything or has no consciousness to experience good and bad things
personally I do think that expecting that people would stop having kids is very unrealistic so as long as you take good care of your children it's all good
I wish you and your future children happiness
@@muniaisworthit what is your idealistic view of the perfect future
@@unrealisticfiction4182 for me I choose antinatalism but I respect people who have kids as long as they treat their kids nicely
Wt ds bible,gita n quran say abt cause of prob n solution world?
This is the video that made me subscribe to your channel 🤗 your content is very interesting 🙋🏾♀️
Same.
And yet,i still disagree with all that antinatalism represent and their philosophy
So your response to an ad hominem is to also use an ad hominem
Very well said.
I don't get the "act like it" part. People think they're living their best lives even when they're not and that's the fucking problem. Our judgement is fucked.
This was so beautiful 😊
Thank you for the video
Mood intensities (depressed or elated) are irrelevant to a claim's truth-value. You don't believe a person's elation makes their claim must be true (or false). Why? Because you know that a claim-maker's happiness doesn't make their claim true. Same thing with depression. So the "You're depressed" is just an ad hominem attack while the "They're so happy! They must be (in)correct" is either ad hominem or an Appeal to Joyfulness. Appealing to weakness (whether presumed or actual) is also an ad hominem attack, and an Appeal to Spite besides (i.e., kneejerk distaste of weakness, as opposed to that person's deliberately setting out to hurt, harm, or demean others). That attitude tells me more about them than the person they scorn, namely their bigotry against the weak.
@G N Court is about swaying juries, not about pure truth pursuit. Yes, there are superficial similarities but the motive of the lawyer is to win the case by hook or by crook - and they don't even try to hide that end-goal. Science and philiosophy (at least as ideals) have rigorous truth-pursuit as the goal. In the end, the person's mood and the truthfulness of their claims still have nothing to do with each other.
Great video!
Brilliant
I don't know about mental illness, but I don't find the antinatalist argument compelling when it comes out of the mouth of someone well off. It's disingenuous, really, I couldn't be that deceptive. Not that I'm particularly well off, but my existence is certainly comfortable, above average one might say, as far as people from first world countries go.
Why?
Beautiful insight.🔥
Yes.
I think the idea should be contended with on its own merits, however.
I agree, I just made this video to address a weak ad hominem that is often used against the philosophy. I give my views on Antinatalism as a whole in this video: ua-cam.com/video/ZubfWXq_uoM/v-deo.html