Testing A Triumph Bonneville Charging System
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2019
- In a previous video ( • Testing Your Motorcycl... ) I showed how a battery test revealed a low charging voltage on this Triumph Bonneville. In this video I'll show how to test the entire charging system on this motorcycle, as well as on similar bikes. In this case the cause turned out to be a faulty rectifier/regulator but I'll show tests for the stator/alternator as well. Rather than swap parts blindly, do these simple tests and be sure of your diagnosis!
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This was one of the most helpful videos I could find on UA-cam for troubleshooting the charing system. Really well done, thank you so much!
Well explained & glad u got it sorted 👍🏻
Excellent tutorial. The explanations are well done and easy to replicate on our problem bike here...a 2003 Thruxton. Well done sir.
Very Helpful, well done.
Great video. Thank you !!
excellent video..very helpful..thanks
Thats really helpful. Think my Bonnie needs one
I have the same issue with my Bonnie 2008. I will be running the same test to find the issue. Thank you for the video.
Good luck!
@@tinderboxarts Thanks man. I followed the same test scheme and found out that it was the Regulator as I had 12.4V to13.0 V at 4000 rpm max. I went for the replacement with same regulator as the one you used. Your video was instrumental in resolving my issue. Thanks Again.
Great video, I think I'll be doing the same.
Thanks for posting, best description of troubleshooting this I've seen yet. Do you happen to know if Torque or TuneECU via OBD can shed any light on this condition or would it simply be reproducing the data you get with the voltmeter on the battery?
I've used TuneECU before, but there's nothing special about that software that I can think of which would help in this situation. Remember, going through the diagnostic connector means you are also going through the ECU and the wiring harness in order to get your data from sensors or the battery voltage. I'd rather have a direct reading from a trusted meter. Live data from the diagnostic connector can be very useful in troubleshooting, since it allows you to see what the ECU sees. For accuracy, though, I'd rather use a meter. What could be useful, I suppose, is a great difference between voltage readings recorded from a meter versus through the ECU. That might indicate a voltage drop due to corrosion or physical wiring issues. Still, those things can also be found pretty easily with a meter. I only wish we could know with certainty what the ECU programming has for voltage parameter cut-offs in this circumstance.
Great video. Why do the wires come out of the reg/rec yellow then switch to blue? That seems confusing. It would have been easier (for guys like me) if they would have kept them yellow from start to finish. Good to know the Rick's unit it plug and play and fits in the stock mounting holes. I would have thought the charge would get closer to 15V with the Ricks unit... like 14.75. 14.30's seems a tad low for 3000rpms but I don't know what the specs are. I'm sure that's plenty to keep the battery charges and run what it needs to run.
Hello John. Thank you so much for this Video! I’ve never used a multimeter on my bike before and your instructions were clear and super helpful. My 2008 T100 has been dying at random times ever since I installed a USB charger for my phone about 2 months ago. It has since been removed, but the problem persists. The battery is only 5 months old. It will start, but sometimes after a few hours of riding it won’t start after I stop to get gas, and I need a boost to get it going again. Also, if I leave the bike for a few days after a ride it is very often hard to start or dead. Battery has been tested and seems fine. I wonder if after a long ride the battery is not recharged by the alternator like it should be, so it’s dead when I return to the bike a few days later. ??? I’ve found the safest thing is to just plug into a tender daily and then I am ok. Anyway, I ran the tests you showed on the stator, and the AC voltage reading with the bike running was about 15, 15 and 15. Yours read 45 each for each connection. Would this mean it’s the Stator that needs to be replaced? The readings were even which is the only reason I’m not sure.
The worst thing you can do when diagnosing a problem is to make assumptions. Assume nothing. I'll put a link to another video you should watch. You need more information about various voltages under different conditions. You say you tested the battery, but not how you tested it. You want to know resting voltage, if there is a surface charge that quickly diminishes when the light or a similar load is applied, and then the starting voltage when you try to start the bike. If any of these are suspect, you can put the battery on a real charger (not just a trickle charger) and see if you can restore voltages to where they should be. If not, the battery may be done whether new or not. If it does come back to where it should be, then the next question is why it was run down. You'll want to check charging voltage to see if the charging system is working right. That includes putting eyeballs on the cables and connectors to look for loose connections or corrosion. Get all the data, then you can make a determination. I don't know off the top of my head what the AC voltage reading should be for your particular stator, but if your charging DC voltage is in a good range then you're probably fine. You should be able to get all these measurements in 10-15 minutes.
ua-cam.com/video/d-5xA31nBd8/v-deo.html
@@tinderboxarts thank you for your response. I ran all the tests on my battery from your video and the battery looks good. I also took it to a auto store to test it and the results were good. The battery is fine. The testing for the charging voltage was only 13 volts @ 3000 rpm. In your video your Bonneville puts out 45 volts from the stator windings. Mine only puts out 15 volts. This made me sure it was a bad stator because I should see 45 like yours shouldn’t I? But the crazy thing is I replaced the stator today and I still get the same reading of 15 from the windings. I have no idea what else it could be. Why is my stator putting out such low numbers? What else could cause that if the battery and stator are both fine? When I traced the wiring it also looks good. I don’t see any obvious shorts. Any thoughts on what I might try next would be greatly appreciated.
Oh, I wish I caught you before you replaced the stator. The fact that they were all identical likely means that they are okay. So, let's back this train up. You are getting only 13 volts DC at the battery for a charging voltage? That's too low. If you have a second meter it's worth checking with that one too just to eliminate the meter. That aside, it would appear your voltage regulator is not working as it should. The only other possibility would be bad cables/connections. So if you check your meter and check all the cables and connectors as good, then the voltage regulator is all that's left. See this same video starting at about 10:55. We don;t have the identical bike, though, so just make sure you are getting the correct regulator. I was pretty happy with this place: ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/
hello, it’s a very good explanation! I’ve executed tests after your video and the voltage of the stator in my triumph scrambler 2014 with the engine on is 16... I use my bike everyday in spring and summer without problems, so what do you think? thank you for your help.
I'm not sure I follow your explanation yet. If you are seeing 16 volts DC at the battery at idle then that's way too high. You'll eventually cook your battery. But, if you mean you were doing a stator test and you found 16 volts AC across the windings, then that sounds quite low. You have a different model year, so it could be different voltage, but I would still expect the windings to put out more than that. Either way, you should confirm the readings are correct with a second meter, or test something with a known voltage (like house current or a battery) to confirm the meter is good.
@@tinderboxarts thank you for your reply. Yes, I mean that I've found 16 volts AC doing a stator test and not measuring battery.
Hi John. Thanks for your video. I have a 2013 T100 and have been trying to follow along your video to figure out why my battery isn't charging consistently and keeps dying on me. I tested the windings and they are .4 for each one. The AC voltage reading with the bike running coming from the stator was 35. YOu mentioned in your video that 45 was ok for certain stators. Do you have any advice on whether the output of 35 indicates a stator issue, or if it may just be the rectifier as in your case? Thank you! Jennifer - Ottawa, Canada
Well, there are a few things to think about. You indicate that all the windings of the stator are giving identical readings. That's not foolproof, but it's a good chance that they are good if they give the same reading. Unfortunately it isn't always easy to find the manufacturer specs for a particular bike for comparison. So, if the measurements you get are within a typical range and all identical, it's reasonable to assume that the stator is good. You didn't mention your voltage readings at the battery, though, and that's an important part of the equation. If the charging voltage is way off and the stator tests good, that leaves the rectifier.
I also have to wonder, though, what you mean by your battery not charging consistently. Is it possible you are barking up the wrong tree? You didn't mention the specific symptoms you have experienced. If the problem is that you sometimes come back to a dead battery or that the battery resting voltage is low, perhaps your issue is not the charging system but something else. For example, you might have a parasitic draw or just a tired old battery. If your stator tests good, and your charging voltage measured at the battery is up where it should be, then you need to consider other possibilities. This video ( ua-cam.com/video/d-5xA31nBd8/v-deo.html ) is about how to test your battery itself. And this video ( ua-cam.com/video/AhqZwLnD9Jk/v-deo.html ) uses a different bike as an example, but the concept of parasitic draw is covered.
@@tinderboxarts Thank you! I'll double check things as you suggested, but my instincts tell me that the battery isn't being properly charged when being driven at lower rpms. I plan on replacing and relocating the rectifier regardless, but would be great to narrow down if the stator is an issue or not. I'll let you know how I make out!
Test, don't guess! Being methodical and going where the facts lead you will save you the money and the headache. With electrical issues, especially, it's easy to be fooled. I'll be curious to hear how you make out.
What would it mean if the stator windings did have continuity with ground? Should it be the same with the ignition on?
That test is just a quick way to test for physical damage. If a stator winding is shorted to ground that must mean it cooked itself or some other physical damage occurred. The winding should normally be separated from the chassis or ground.
Please help me. I got a 2010 Bonneville SE. every day in the morning the energy is too low to start the engine so I have to push the bike. Doing some test i found that the rectifier is consuming energy from the battery after the bike is off. I think I should change it but I live in a far town so is not easy to find a replacement. Is it possible for the rectifier to leak energy in the way i described? Or could be another problem?
It is possible for a rectifier to have what's called a "parasitic draw" with the bike off. A diode is supposed to allow electricity to flow in only one direction, but if it fails the battery can drain. You can disconnect your rectifier, charge the battery up and see if it holds that charge. Of course, there are other possibilities too. You could have a parasitic draw from something else, or the battery could just be on the way out. This video shows how to test your battery:
ua-cam.com/video/d-5xA31nBd8/v-deo.html
Alfredo, FYI when you turn off the ignition and remove the key, the ECU continues to run (remains on) from anywhere between 3 to 20 additional minutes. Assuming that you tested the battery voltage shortly after turning the bike off. This might account for your continued battery drain. See this post in Triumph forums "www.triumphrat.net/threads/2010-bonnie-dreaded-voltage-limited-starting-problem-new-battery.189958/post-2051888"
I know you changed your battery in a later video but it's apparent in this video that it's no good and possibly the cause for the rectifier/regulator to go bad and need replacing. Good well charged batteries don't drop that much in voltage just by the lights coming on.
P.S. Surface charge applies to batteries that have recently come off the charger. It doesn't apply to batteries that have been sitting and have normalized. On those batteries the voltage you see is the actual charge of the battery. If it goes down by a significant amount when turning on lights the battery is weak.
Well, it can take half a day for a battery with a surface charge to come down to it's "normal" voltage. And, I've personally seen batteries sitting longer than that which still have a false charge. But, yes, typically a surface charge is seen soon after you turn off the engine or charger. The idea of a weak battery causing an alternator or a rectifier to go bad is not wrong, but I also think it's an overblown issue. The theory is that the additional strain from constantly trying to keep up with a nearly dead battery will cause excess heat, and thereby essentially burn up the alternator or rectifier. In reality I think it would take quite a lot of riding around with a nearly dead battery, not just a weak battery, in order to cause that much damage. I'm remembering a Ford Galaxie 500 I took through several states on a long trip with a completely dead battery, or my wife's Suburban we once took to pick up the kids at college with 6 hours driving on a dead battery. Perhaps motorcycle rectifiers are more sensitive, but most of us stay home if the bike doesn't start or turns over slowly. The charging system needs to keep up with requirements for the ignition, lights and accessories. A weak battery doesn't add that much more demand, though a completely dead battery might.
Hi friend. Thanks for the good video. Ihave the same problem with a Benneville T100 2008 and found the altrernator output is 26.5vac on each winding. Not 45vac as in the video. Do you think this output is normal in this 2008 model?
Yeah, there were some differences among model years, so I wouldn't worry about it. If all three windings are reading about the same then likely you are fine.
@@tinderboxarts thank you my friend. Regards from Mexico
John. I alreay replaced the rectifier with success. Thank you again. I Would líder to ride with you in México sone time and have some tequila to celebrate you channel
Thanks for the wonderful offer! I'm glad your repair was successful.
Hi! Thank you so much for your videos which have been super helpful. Ive been trying to figure out why my Thruxton 900 2009 doesnt turn on. It gives me the "click" that I suspect its because of the ECU voltage threshold problem that you mention in another video, however, my question is why it keeps happening even with new and fully charged batteries. I ran some tests and my battery doesnt have current leakages, my charging voltage is 13 at the battery terminals when idle and goes down to 12.7-12.8 when at around 2000 rpm which made me think i have a charging problem. I then ran all the charging troubleshoot and my windings are all giving me similar readings (dont remember the exact number) and my AC voltage is 24-25 through all three stator terminals and goes up to around 35 in all of them when accelerating to around 2000 rpm which makes me think the stator is ok and it may be a regulator problem. Do you think I can be missing something? Or should I replace the regulator and see what happens? I guess my main question here is if the 25-35 VAC that the stator is generating is enough or is too low... thank you!!!
Okay, there's a lot to unpack here. First, is your 2009 bike fuel injected or carbureted? That was around the model year it changed, and the voltage threshold problem only applied to fuel-injected bikes.
Second, the voltage threshold problem relates to your battery voltages at rest and with the key to the "on" position, not to your charging system. If you measure your battery at rest it will be 12.6 volts fully charged. With the key to the "on" position the voltage should stay above 12.2 or so. Below that and the ECU threshold value could be a problem, but above that it is not likely to be a problem.
Third, there are other reasons you could be getting a click and no-start. For instance, your starter solenoid could be gummed up or you could have a poor connection at your battery or the starter. You might try to discern if the click is coming from the relay by the seat or if it is coming from the starter area.
Finally, your charging system questions are a different problem. 12.7 volts charging is indeed low, and you might take a look at your regulator based on your other tests.
@@tinderboxarts thank you for your answer! My bike is fuel injected. Regarding the click, it is what you say, when I fully charge the battery with the charger the voltage would be around 13 and goes down to around 12.4 when in the On position and it would start perfectly, however after a couple rides it would measure a low rest voltage and does the click. This is a brand new battery.
If I start the bike with a fully charged battery or with a jump starter it wouldn't have any problem so I imagine the starter solenoid and relay are functioning well.
The fact that the battery is getting slowly discharged after every ride made me think that it's not charging when running, that's why I did the charging tests which showed the low charging voltage at the battery terminals (13 at idle, 12.7 at 2000 rpm)
Okay, that makes better sense--I didn't follow the whole backstory. So you have a functioning bike when you test the battery at 12.4 or so. But, when you continue to ride without supplemental charging the battery voltage declines and suddenly you have a starting issue. So there are two things you should do. You say you already tested your stator output, which was acceptable. So that does leave the rectifier/regulator. It's not difficult to replace that component, and then you should see charging readings come up to where they should be. The second thing you should do is visit a Triumph dealer and see if they have an ECU software patch for you. My understanding is that Triumph did change the pre-programmed voltage threshold for the ECU sometime around your model year. In fact, they did an update on my 2010 Bonneville for exactly that reason. However, the update was not widely publicized and I imagine it had other fixes included too. So all you can do is ask the dealer to reflash your ECU with the latest software and hope for the best!
@@tinderboxarts yea, makes sense. I just ordered a new regulator and will see what happens. Will also go to dealership. Thanks!
@4:27 my bonneville from 2006 gives a reading in ohms at every winding. And at 3000 RPM it gives 42 volts. At idle it gives 22 volts. At the battery the volts go down when I rev it up. Do I need a new regulator?
I think maybe you have some things confused. So, at that 4:27 mark I was testing the stator windings to make sure none of the three were shorted to ground. If there was one winding shorted to ground you would also see a low charging voltage. If all three were shorted to ground you would have nothing! So I'm wondering if you did the test wrong or picked the wrong place to measure? The test using the AC volt scale is testing the output of each winding. So if you have all three readings at about 42 volts AC, then it is likely your stator is fine. I found 45 volts AC, but there could be differences in meters or specs, of course.
You didn't mention what your charging voltage is in DC volts at the battery. What I was trying to show in the video is that you can test the stator windings to make sure they are putting out voltage. If your charging DC voltage is low but your windings check out, then suspicion is cast on either the wiring/connectors or the rectifier itself.
@@tinderboxarts Thank you for replying my question. I had all three readings at about 42 volts. The charging voltage was diving under 12 volts when I reved it up. I have installed a new rectifier from Rick's motorsports and my Bonnie gives me the freedom to start everywhere at any time. Thanks again!