I’m the ar shooter in the video. To clarify one thing, most of us shooting that day showed up to shoot the blackjack challenge. We were told about this separate challenge previous to showing up and I just saw it as an extra shot as I was really there to see how I could do on the blackjack. If I was showing up for just this challenge I would’ve used a different rifle and my actual hunting rifle probably missing the killzone but having more confidence in hitting the deer coldbore. I assume the blackjack challenge is why everyone else showed up as well and i’m sure Erik will post that at some point. This 1moa challenge is still humbling and I would never try to kill an animal at 500 with a target projectile, and a 5x optic as it’s very difficult to make an ethical shot.
It's definitely not easy. A few weeks ago (7/6/24) I was at a rifle class and while the instructor was running some drills with one part of the class the rest of us were allowed to shoot steel out to 600y; I had brought my 16" AR specifically for this if the opportunity came up. I was making his at 400 with a 5x and 73(?)gr Superformance .223 off the shelf that I wasn't zeroed with, but couldn't connect at 500. The range was also overgrown with weeds and brush so I couldn't spot my misses. Still a lot of fun.
FINALLY someone said it. Most people can’t shoot 1moa at 100. Don’t believe me, go to a public range and look at 100 yard targets. Great stuff, thanks Erik!
It's true. A lot of the 100 yard targets I see at Public ranges look like a shotgun pattern. That said, I have a Tikka CTR that has literally never shot a 5-shot group 1 MOA or larger.
@@5nyper If I want to fully vet a load, I usually do 6 5-round groups and aggregate into a 30 round group based on point of aim. Doing 5 rounds at a time gives the barrel a chance to cool.
Thank you Eric. As a South African hunting guide I always try to get clients within 300 yds for a shot. In the bush never over 150 yds. Absolutely hate the videos being circulated about all the long range shots, never see the videos with all the wounding though. Well done sir.
Erik, I applaud you for broaching the topic - because the problem is real and there is a growing number of "hunters" who are nothing more than professional wound merchants because they want to brag about how far they shot AT a critter. I take your idea and go one step further - whatever range I can hit the kill zone 9/10 times at the range means that I can confidently shoot HALF that distance while hunting. So if I can dependably hit that target at 500 yards on the range then I am 'good' to engage a critter while hunting at 250 yards. Also, as you well know - just because you can hit a target @ 500 yards prone does NOT mean you are free to fling bullets at that distance from any position (seated, kneeling, tripod assisted, etc). People need to do better and stop trying to kill stuff so you can brag about it online. Hunt ethically. Hunt Quietly.
@@JohnDoe-hu9ve I agree for the most part. I don’t post anything I harvest. The post draws bad attention plus the long shooting . Only a few actually practice that far. I would venture to say more miss then wound.
I'm from Germany and we have highly regulated hunting in our country. We also have statistics on who shoots what at which distance. Virtually nobody shoots at anything above 150m (165 yards). The average, if I remember correctly, is around 85m (90 yards). Hunting license exam includes target shooting at 100m (110 yards) and you have to hit around 2 MOA consistently five times in a row, from a standing position (supporting hand grabs a vertical wooden stick and rifle rests on the back of that hand). Since all German hunters are evidently capable of getting that close to the animal and reliably kill it, it is considered unncessary and thus unethical to shoot at anything further away. There are entire internet message boards full of German hunters talking about the weird US habit of wanting to kill things from 500 or even 1000 yards away.
@@Grinstopher that’s really cool. If you made those rules in the state I live in the success rate would be less than .05 percent. The majority of shots are 200 yards. Plus we have a very short season. I’m not saying we all should be shooting far.
I grew up a city kid, never had any clue about hunting until i joined the Army and tried it for the first time with a buddy and his dad. He taught me a lot, and one of his major lessons was no matter the caliber always take your shots within 250 yards. He said if youre starving.....then dont shoot past 200 yards. 25 years later i remember all his lessons and they still apply. Thanks Mr. Schumann.
@@janelleshortreed2030 nobody hunts those animals because they are hungry those animals are hunted for sport only ethical hunting is for food any hunting for just to kill a animal so you can say i killed it is NOT ETHICAL PERIOD
@@le3045acp I think if you harvest it legally and eat and use the parts you can then it’s as ethical as reasonably possible. If you were in an unregulated post-apocalypse you wouldn’t care if it was a deer or a big horn sheep. Nobody hunts deer legally because “they’re hungry” either. Let’s just be honest here.
One of the guys stated that he only takes a 300 yd shot at most. That is an ethical hunter. It’s one thing to shoot at long range targets that don’t move. But, to shoot past a comfortable distance where you are confident, shows a real lack of respect for the animal. Thanks for proving the point!
@colinkobel2868 that's just a guy who hunts within his abilities, on game he is comfortable to 300yds. All that is proven is that 1 individual's personal limit is 300yds.
If 300 is ethical, with a 500 yard shot with a 1 moa rifle you're only adding two inches. ELK vital zones are way larger than 5 inches. If you can shoot 1 moa, than you can make an ethical 500yd shot. All of these guys would have killed this ELK except the dude who missed.
As a hunter, I agree for the most part. #1 These are not hunting rifles. #2... 1 MOA is not required to consistently harvest animals. #3 you're correct I have witnessed many hunters sight in with over 20 rounds and when they hit a paper plate they think they are good. #4 let's get some real hunters and rifles out here. #5 nobody in the world can hit 1 MOA at 500 yards 100% of the time. #6 I believe nobody should be shooting at game even elk or moose size over 500 yards. Many have but, but doesn't mean they should.
Your #5 couldn’t be more true. Especially cold bore having no fired a shot that day. To me when someone says they are shooting 1MOA at 500yds I assume they are talking about grouping of 1MOA or less bc I’m strictly a long range target shooter bc rifles are illegal here in Ohio. But just changing it to saying “can you hit a 1MOA target, one shot, cold bore” changes it dramatically. I can shoot sub MOA groups all day, but not many guys on earth can pick up their rifle and go dial to 500 yds and hit a 1MOA target first shot let alone repeating that feat numerous times.
@@motorboater211 Very true. Not on a single one of my hunts would the small Atlas style bipods used by all these shooters have provided enough elevation to take a shot. I carry trigger sticks and any supported shots I have been able to take were kneeling or standing off the sticks.
@@DoubleTap1115 I had a primary marksman instructor in marine corps boot camp that put 3 rounds open sight standing at 500 yards that you could cover with a dime. He had a recruit go get it and he covered it with a dime. He was also a scout sniper at one point in his marine corps career. But most people could not do it for sure.
I'm old school too, but todays hunting rifles aren't yesterday hunting rifles. Just because its in a chassis doesn't mean it isn't a hunting rifle. Of course the ar isn't a hunting rifle. They apparently just spend more than you do.
I love this challenge. Fantastic that it's a cold bore shot because in hunting it's generally 1 shot out of cold bore. Wonderful seeing the young boy shoot. Absolutely made the video for me.
"The deer was long f'ng gone" is the truest statement. 👍👍 The coolest would be to have a front berm, or a trench, that the target rises from at a random point along the backstop and it is only there for 20 seconds. You have 5 "chances" but may shoot only once, can shoot more if you take shot on any chance before fifth and score, but misses erase all prior scores and negate further "chances". It could be done at successively longer ranges from 100 to 500. Of course, looking at everyone's glistening arms, you would need a water truck available to stay hydrated during the session.
Fantastic video! Thank you for doing this. The overwhelming majority of shooters/hunters have egos WAAAY bigger than their skill level. It’s important that there is a distinction between hunting scenarios as opposed to a LR target session. There is also a difference between hunting and sniping. I hunt by stalking an animal. This means that I am not shooting from a well established position, and have only seconds to prepare and take the shot, usually from a shooting stick/ monopod. I would never take a shot over 300 yards, and generally try to shoot at 200 yards.
As a former big game guide and hunter. Most professional hunters never take shots at game past 400 yards . Unless they are completely comfortable with it. In the time I guided only 3 were confident in taking a shot ethically at game past that . And all of the 3 had extensive experience in predator or pest control . Foxes , ground hogs or prairie dogs. And were very proficient at shooting small game at very long range . Big game was easy for them. And most actually went hunting coyotes or prairie dogs for the secondary part of their hunts for fun and true bragging rights ! Jack rabbits at 600yds with a 300 winchester 😂😂! It was amazing. But in real big game hunting you are there for a trophy not wasting thousands of dollars to get a wounded shot up animal! They usually stalked up to what they were comfortable with and made ethical one shot kills ! Thank you Eric for the clarification of what that actually means!
Love this. I grew up hunting in WY. Killed my first mule deer with iron sights at 130 yards. At 200 and beyond, wind calls are critical, especially in WY. My dad told me that if I had to take a shot, on any game, beyond 250, I didn’t know how to hunt.
Some people don't have resources to keep shots that close. Time, money, and needs outweigh the "sport" of the pay to hunt game. How many animals did the Indians lose?
This is what I love to see on UA-cam in the gun world. Practical stuff that kills myths and people's perceptions. That being said......"In all honesty, the deer was long fuckin gone by now" had me ROLLIN. Cheers Erik
I shoot twice a week currently. Shooting my own reloads out of a TL3, 6 Dasher in a foundation with a trigger tech diamond and a vortex razor. Rifle shoots 109 Berger at 2870. My range has steel out to 750. So that’s the furthest I have shot in a controlled environment. With all that being said, not real sure I could do it either yet my rifle just printed a .166 followed up with a .204 this morning. But only at a hundred. They put big giant steel plates out there and most guys can’t even get within 2-3 feet without a few shots to get it right. So I see this all the time and as hunting season prep is gonna start taking shape in the next month or so, the range will be packed. I’m always amazed as a guy who used to focus heavily on hogs, deer and occasionally elk, at the number of guys who can’t shoot a 5” group at 100 but are trying to hit Volkswagen size steel at 750 and wondering why they are missing. Gear and lots of practice could make that hunt a lot more enjoyable to them. I end up feeling pretty bad for all the damn game I know is about to get gut shot, or worse, after watching these guys in action. I am not perfect, and anyone can make a bad shot, but I certainly don’t want to take a shot and wound an animal if at all possible. Doo doo happens, as they say. But if more hunters could see this video, it would be a hell of a coming to Jesus moment. Or should be anyways. Thanks Erik.
Well done Eric! I manage a gun club. The above comments are spot on. You would be amazed (probably not) at the number of folks that come to the range to "check" their rifle. They put up a paper plate at 100 and if they can hit it, call it good! Disgusting. Makes me feel sorry for the deer.
If someone tried to hunt with most of those rifles, they would be huffing and puffing in rough country. Maybe they're OK for a deer stand right off the road, but not stalking.
I remember a story about an old buffalo hunter who was shooting at a herd of antelope at over 1000 yds with a 45-110 buffalo gun. He stated that he hit more than he missed. An argument went back and forth between various writers of that time, that it wasn't possible vs. it could be done. When the hunter was finally confronted about his claim, he said: "I said I hit more than I missed. There was a huge herd and they were all standing close together, so most of the shots hit one of them."
I didn’t see anyone check for wind. That’s crazy. This is good practice. I set up a 12” Target with a 2.5” circle in the center. Every year before my hunt I verify all my reloads and their drop data at 800 yards. If I don’t get 3 for 3 in a 2.5” circle at 800 yards then I start over from scratch. I’m pretty tuff on myself. If im shooting on a live target I want a good clean kill. This was a great video. If you want to get better, practice, practice, practice!!! Thanks for sharing.
In all of the years that I've hunted the farthest shot that I've even seen anyone successfully taken was 538 yards. It was taken by my dad on a Roosevelt Elk that was standing absolutely broadside with only a slight head on breeze. He was shooting a .338 Win Mag with a perfect rest and the first shot was in the vitals and it just stood there like it wasn't hit so he shot it again and took out its shoulder. Both 225 grain Nosler Partitions were recovered and had excellent penetration. That was the longest shot at the biggest bull that he had ever taken and wasn't the norm for our hunting with most shots being taken in within 300 yards or so but he wanted to get it before it disappeared into the timber.
I grew up hunting on a lease where we had hunters from Houston drive up. The vast majority of shots were within 100 yards. They all still missed so often. One guy shot 7 times at 4 deer in one weekend. He swore up and down his rifle was off. It wasn't. Whenever they would miss, they'd greatly exaggerate the range. "It was out at 300 yards!" When in reality it was around 120 yards. If they ever did manage to contact the animal, I usually had to track it quite a ways. Then they'd curse that it was their rifle, "Don't got enough knockdown power". Next season they'd be back with an even bigger magnum.
Outstanding video. None of these are practical guns to hunt with the mountains. So well said. I teach Hunters Ed and guide hunters. It always impress me more if a hunter can stalk and take an animal at close range.
Absolutely fantastic challenge Eric! 500 yards is a long way to be shooting at a deer sized target. To be fair, all except the last guy with the AR put kill shots down range. Now run the same challenge at unknown distance. That would certainly be a challege!
Hah I didn’t even consider the fact that they know the exact range, good call! ‘It’s somewhere between 250 and 500’ would make it more interesting indeed!
I believe the vast majority of hunters are incapable of hitting that 1 MOA target in the field. Doesn’t mean they’re incapable of cleanly taking game, but 1 MOA @ 500 is a pipe dream for the vast majority of hunters. A 9” dinner plate maybe, but no way 1 MOA for the vast majority. Good demonstration.
@@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649yes, so 2 MOA in the field. Most hunters aren't cognizant of the range to kill-zone size correlation with regards to long range. Now add field conditions and constraints into the equation, and figure a good (let alone average) shooter would feel pressed to hit 3MOA @ 100 yards. That's 300 yards max without a stationary rest of some sort.
Love these challenges. This just shows how much you need to practice and know your rifle and load and how to read conditions. And even then its not a given. See alot of channels proud of ~3/4” groups on long range rigs but to me that isnt good enough when trying 500+ on game. It almost never holds as wind and shooter form usually grow those dimensions.
This was a few years ago at my local shooting range. A lot of people zeroing rifles for their hunts coming up including a neighbors shooting lane who was prepping for his first ever deer hunt. We made some small talk during the day, and me having some experience in North Dakota gave him a little advice. Midway through a session, a yearling pronghorn antelope ran directly into the shooting lanes between the 100 and 200 yard stands. The RO yelled to ceasefire and everyone stopped. Bringing up my binos, I then asked the fellow as we were watching it, "could you make that shot?" He thought about it for a few seconds and said, "that's pretty far, soI don't think so". With a big smile on my face I told him, "that's the absolutely correct answer! Shooting an animal is a totally different ballgame than shooting steel or paper!"
I have been hunting for the last 25 years here in South Africa and my longest kill shot was at 315m shooting another hunters wounded buck. Ethical hunting requires the hunter to make a one shot kill with confidence. If you can only shoot 1moa at 100m and do not know your rifle's bullet drop at longer ranges, then you should ethically not take a longer than 100m shot. As a dedicated hunter, l limit myself to a max of 250m. I know my bullet drop up to 500m but I will only shoot a long shot if I cannot get closer to a wounded buck or if the sun will set before we can get closer to the wounded buck. Here in Africa a buck will give you 2 to 5 seconds max before it moves. Erik, this is a great test to show hunters what is ethical and realistic in the hunting environment. You should give them a 5 second time limit for the shot.
Thank you Eric for your videos. I have allot of shooting experience from the military but it’s completely different kind of shooting. I learn a lot from your videos. Thank you for that!
@@Josh-uf1rv No suppressor is dumb but its's law in Canada, thank our backwards politics. There are many hunters that pay upwards of $5000 to buy exactly that. Any one of the top end carbon fiber Fierce rifles will get you in that weight category.
Many of the hunters i see here in Idaho will be at the range october 5th with their savage axis, remintington 700, ruger american shooting over the counter ammo to zero their rifles. These are the common hunters that need to do this challenge. They are hunting for fun and arent spending lots of cash to do it. These are the hunters making these type of shots on october 10th on the mule deer opener. I always hear shot after shot on opening morning, which im sure are followup shots at deer that are "out of range" for these hunters. The average joe hunter will not make this shot ethically.
Excellent video! As a former F class shooter and shot a couple PRS matches my limit is 200 yards…. In Mississippi I hear a lot of people who drt at 500 but I question their ability to range a target.
I primarily hunt Moose now and have had all my shots within 200 yards, which means I have about a 6 MOA kill zone. If conditions were right and had no way to stalk the moose, for example across a pond/swamp with sunlight disappearing soon, I would probably go up to 300. That said I have also never needed a follow-up shot, had a moose go more than 20 yards, or found a heart when gutting them. (I have harvested 6 moose)
@hopewilliams6705 that was my point, ethically speaking I won't take shots I can make when I am hunting to ensure I have a fast clean takedown if something is a little off or the animal moves at the last second.
@@hopewilliams6705how many shots do you think you could hit off-hand, on a target that size? I'm a dammed good shot, and without a solid rest that's not exactly an easy shot to take.
Love this! Thank you for doing this video. As someone who enjoys long range shooting, but also has a deep respect for our large game, this is drill every hunter should run pre-hunt to determine their max range shot with their rifle. Share this and help fix the culture of takings shots well beyond your ability! Part of the sad reality is many hunters do not have easy access to shoot at ranges with anything close to this distance.
Hitting that 1 MOA target at range can be very difficult even with a rifle/load that shoots sub MOA. I think a lot of people don’t realize that because they are focused more on group size than perfect shot placement.
Love your channel and the 500 yard challenge. Would you ever do a 500 yard challenge using STOCK factory rifles? For instance 308, 6.5 and so on with no mods ecluding scopes and bipods, ammo being optiinal. I am starting to shoot sime long- ish range with my Savage axis 6.5 and just think it would be interesting to see what can be done with factory stock rifles. Thanks for the content and keep it up, i have learned a lot. Keep it centered my friend.
Yeah I feel like if this was an accurate challenge it would be limited to hunting rifles. I know there will be all kinds of dudes saying they carry their 22 lb foundation custom rifle hunting. But yeah. At least a weight limit.
This is so important that people should learn ethical hunting. I met a person bragging how his grandson kills rockrabbits with a breakneck airgun. How many had been wounded with gutshots and scurried away to die agonizingly? Not ethical imo.
If you have a 6.5 Creedmoor you can take em farther than that, so they say!! Thank Eric for setting some straight here. In the field shooting very different than off a bench. Off a bench at paper there is no "rush".. Ethical is knowing your limits.
I have the same target but with a 10” swinger. In reality, there are lots of spots outside that 10” swinger that would also be kill shots. Like you said, they’d all have been ethical kill shots but one. I think a 10” swinger would be more realistic and having them do it from different yardages and positions. But that is a lot of additional effort, so I can see why you did it that way.
Being comfortable with your rifle and practicing cold bore shots gets you 1st round on target a lot more. Something I have found with my custom barrels at distance, quite often, 1st shot on, 2nd shot slow 0.5-1.0 moa low, then following shots moving back up to 1st shot POI as barrel and chamber warm up.
Love watching your videos and agree with the point your making. That said, you don't have to be a MOA shooter to hunt. Lots of factors that go into when and where to take a shot. We shoot a lot and I would say me and my son have a few rifles that consistently shoot 1/2 MOA. We will take 500 yard shots on game.....but only under ideal circumstances and with appropriate gear. Hunters need to know their limitations and be realistic with shots that are presented. By the way.....Love the target and have already looked up the company. I wish they made them in 1/2" so it would handle up to 338 lapua. Still may have to purchase a couple of the whitetail targets for the property / shooting range.....super cool.
I think you hit the nail on the head here with the idea of what’s a realistic ethical distance, however if we are being fair that is essentially a heart shot at 500 challenge. Let’s see a heart shot and an actual vital zone success rate
I like how you mentioned that the kill zone is larger than 1 MOA, but people need to take into account that their grouping is naturally going to open up with adrenaline, animal taking a step when the shot breaks, etc. So in a controlled environment, I totally agree that the "ethical kill zone" on a target needs to be smaller than that of actual size.
This is a good way to humble a lot of people. a cold-bore shot will very often not land on your normal zero so you have to spend time with your rifle and and make notes (ammo dependent) on where that 1st shot lands. While I don't agree that 1MoA is the standard above which it's not ethical (I'd argue 1.5) but it definitely is good to remind people that hunting is not target shooting or even match shooting. You have one chance to get it right and 500yds is no joke even for people that have serious shooting chops. Realistically though, most guys there made deer killing shots just not perfect 1 MoA shots.
I’ll point out that 4 out of 5 shooters cold bore shots would have killed the deer. The .223 has lowest BC of all of them and was most likely to miss. Each hunter has the responsibility to know his shooting system and have practiced enough to decide if he can put a shot in the kill zone. Most need a lot more practice but a few have invested the time and money in equipment and are ethically able to consistently kill animals at that range and beyond.
If you read back up in the replies, the guy with the .223 posted. He and the others had shown up for the Blackjack Challenge and were all of a sudden given this opportunity. If he had known there would be a hunter's challenge, he would have brought a rifle he normally carries for hunting. Rifles can be built for different jobs.
Great video! And an even better question! Just last season, I passed a 200 yard shot on a VERY nice buck, with MY OWN rifle. I hadn't practiced at that range with that particular rifle and couldn't squeeze the trigger!
@deeeeeeps what exactly are you insinuating? Only heart shots are ethical? I'm not encouraging long-range hunting or supporting it. My point is that as much as long-range hunting may be unethical for most, a 5-inch kill zone is not a reality.. Ethically hunting at long range is way more technical and difficult, and there was no need to make it more difficult than it is already as displayed in the video. Erick could have just used a realistic killl zone and gotten the point across. These shooters were shooting at a known distance, had likely watched the previuos shooters, and were using target rigs more expensive than 80% of the rifle hitting the woods and could barely keep it in the kill zone. Point Proven! There was no need to put his finger on the scale.
@deeeeeeps what exactly are you insinuating? Only heart shots are ethical? I'm not encouraging long-range hunting or supporting it. My point is that as much as long-range hunting may be unethical for most, a 5-inch kill zone is not a reality.. Ethically hunting at long range is way more technical and difficult, and there was no need to make it more difficult than it is already as displayed in the video. Erick could have just used a realistic killl zone and gotten the point across. These shooters were shooting at a known distance, had likely watched the previuos shooters, and were using target rigs more expensive than 80% of the rifle hitting the woods and could barely keep it in the kill zone. Point Proven! There was no need to put his finger on the scale.
@@Do-UR-Research2749 Hearts are about 3" Over 5" You can easily miss a lung and the animal can run off and expire in a swamp 2 miles away. That is not ethical.
Hi Erik, In New Zealand the NZ Deer Stalkers Association use a target called the Wilkinson's Target for this type of match. This is a similar silhouette of a deer but without any specific aim point , because deer normally don't have those. It is painted all the one colour and forces the shooter to determine where and how to place the shot for ethical hunting. There is normally a 5 shot groups and scoring is done with a template. Shooting can be done from different ranges from standing, kneeling, sitting and prone. I believe every hunter should give this a go before they decide what an ethical shot is for them. I've been shooting and hunting all of my life and I couldn't believe how difficult this is. Cheers for the excellent series.
I've personally witnessed my father shoot a deer and drop it cold at 600 yards with a Remington 700 chambered in .270 and a cheap buckmaster scope in the plains of ND. He shot from an elevated position on a hill. He was a former Marine.
Me and my dad never even cared to take game; we liked just being out in the woods in a hunting setting basically. With that said, I do wish there was a secondary ring for what was just a killzone shot for this challenge. 1 MOA for many shooters, cold-bore, is a rough challenge and as far as I understand it is more than necessary in terms of accuracy on target to drop the animal.
Energy on target doesn't mean as much, rather what does the bullet do to your intended target. I've seen multiple people take down elk with 308, 7-08, 6.5 CM, and 243 Win. from distances farther than that. What about bow hunters? Antelope, elk, goat, moose, etc. is all about location. Hell, subsonic 8.6 BO has taken down moose and elk and that is 700 ft/lbs.
@@perrytilton5221 You are correct that energy isn't an "end all" fact. Arrows are much heavier then bullets and have more momentum because of it. Most bullets need 2k fps to open and enough momentum to carry through the vitals. I know it's a bit of an old wives tale but it's a number most people can get and understand.
Eric, thankyou for this much needed video. These long range snipers who shoot at living animals at extended distances have no respect for the animals. Question: Is this about the animal or is this about you? No place for that in ethical hunting.
I know several of them lobbing rounds at elk at 800 yards plus and they've wounded and not tracked far more than they've bagged ethically. If you want to play pretend sniper, shoot steel.
This is 100%. Cliff Grey, who was an outfitter and guide has the same idea in a few of his vids. whereas he focuses on mountain conditions and hunting orientated rifles. Being practical with your skillset, though humbling, is certainly the way to go. I'm doing tests at the range with a few different rifles, but the same optic. Lots of dry firing before a shot gets fired just to get used to the feel again, even from the bench for each rifle. Which is something to keep in mind when heading into the field. Knowing your cold bore zero and choosing quality components for your conditions is pretty key. I'd maybe stretch to 350 370, if I had an excellent load and I was waiting set up down a bush cutline with no wind conditions. Even closer if possible, under 200 yards is ideal. Pretty rare to see 500 where I'm located, unless you're moose hunting by boat, or up above the treeline hunting caribou.
We have a coyote target with a popper in the vitals that is roughly 1moa at 500yds. We decided to replicate this challenge, and no drought that it is tough. The problem we had was the wind reading. We load our own rounds and have range tickets out to 600 for hunting, and 1000 for target only. Our rifles are hunting rifles, Ranch owner was using his Remington 700 .308 with Zeiss scope and jewel trigger, mine is a stock Savage 110 in 6.5 cm, with Athlon Ares scope. The wind was calm when we first tried the challenge and hit the popper, went back out after doing some work around the ranch and the wind had picked up. I couldn't hit it with in 3 shots, my friend hit it after the 2nd shot. Our range is about 30yds wide through the woods off the back porch of the ranch house. The woods start at the 200yd mark. The range starts off running down hill off the back porch, levels out at the 200 mark and starts back up a gradual climb at the 250 mark. At the 400 mark we have a road that crosses the range the wind can get a little tricky past there. This was a humbling experience. We would love a chance to come down to your place and take the challenge or have you come to our place and try it on our range. Anyway we love your content and find your videos very informative. Thank you.
Hey Erik, Love you're show's and product line! This cold bore hunting challenge is another great idea! But as a 64 year old life long local competition shooter at 600 BR and 1000 yd matches with a full vault of custom high end competition and hunting rifle's I want to say this. These shooter's need to show up with a rifle that you can actually pack into the middle of nowhere and back out to hunt with. Say maybe under 14 lbs. Just to throw out a number for now. And they need to show up with enough velocity and down range energy to swiftly and humanly harvest that buck. I as a competition shooter and a lifelong hunter would love to see you do this. It would separate the real deal guy's from the wannabes. And as far as myself I can consistently stay on 3" round steel at 500 and 600 with about all my rifle's. Been building my own ammunition for almost 30 years. Hope that you get a chance to read this and ponder it.
Magnum cartridges only with 8LB maximum weight w/Scope. NO Brakes or Suppressors. I'd love to see it too. Being stuck in Canada we don't have the option to use suppressors to begin with. EC tuner (not brake) allowed! This is my 7PRC Fierce mountain reaper hunting rig that I can carry and shoot without ruining the hunt with a headache from having to wear ear protection all day. Yes.. load development with no muzzle brake was rough.
His point was probably hge knew almost no one would make it even with their fancy setups let alone a lightweight rifle you would actually take with you.
@@foonus406 what idiot shoots mag's at a deer?.... also, lots of us dont need to hike in with guns... im in ohio, the most i have ever walked with my gun for hunting is 2 to 300y and most of the time it was less then 100y. I shoot groundhogs all summer, and deer in the winter. the groundhogs are 5" to 12" and i have hundreds of kills from 300-900y. videos here... ua-cam.com/video/Y9-NJ6rLc7Q/v-deo.html&pp=gAQBiAQB if i could use those guns for deer, i have no issue killing at 600+ but im limited to a 450BM... so most of my kills have been at 200y
Eric, Cold bore shooting should be the top of list, cold ammo, sighting in with conditions that may be encountered in area. When possible in region where hunting. Having flown in extreme weather, one learns the wind affect on objects in flight. This knowledge identifying objects on the ground blowing in the wind has aided me over time to hit objects at distance by holding to compensate. Constantly checking with bino’s the actions of anything affected ( grasses, loose soil, leaves , snow ) by wind and learn that affect on your bullets in flight. My experience is the high shoulder shot is lethal even when the animal moves it’s a miss or spine shot. What effect does temperature have on the cold shot, powder ignition? Wind, bullet weight, caliber, accuracy of firearm used. Elmer Keith once told me “ Beware of the guy with one gun, he likely knows how to shoot it” Eric, I did not hear the caliber of the guy that hit the red tag. Excellent encouraging the guy with the AR to redeem himself as deer do not always run after a shot is fired. I hope this reduces the poor choice of long range shots by those unprepared. Long overdue! Excellent!!!!!!
I started shooting f-class to improve my long range hunting ability. The better I became, the more I realized that "ethical long range" shots on game are a myth.
Good challenge. I think people get confused that they can shoot one MOA group’s fairly regular, I mean what I’m trying to say is we spend a lot to get a rifle that’s capable but to actually cold bore and hit one MOA takes a ton of work and knowledge for a cold bore one shot. I would like to se that again though with guys bringing more common hunting rifles and calibers. 28 Nosler, 300 PRC, 300 WIN MAG, 7mm REM Mag and maybe some legendary 30 06 or 270 Win. Surely they’d buck the wind a little better. I love these challenging videos. I think because as a Hunter and competitive archer it’s how I’ve practiced for decades. I take my bow out for weeks before deer season and take one shot at varying distances and shoot from positions I may hunt. Kneeling in a blind, sitting in a stand, standing in a stand, etc. As a competitive shooter that can make some really long shots and I was real surprised at how much that distance was cut when there’s no practice and you throw in the shooting positions.
When I hunted in Baudette, MN we routinely took deer from 300-500 yards with a .300 Weatherby Magnum. Those old Nosler ballistic tips were walking the dog at 3,200 fps and we never wounded a deer. Any round hitting in the lungs was a kill shot. I realize that shooting isn't for everyone. but after relocating farther south in the deep woods it took me a few years to get used to 100 yard shots with only 3-5 seconds to go from spotting a deer to site picture to squeeze when I was used to spending 5 minute lining up the shot I wanted across a field. With the right rifle, training and patience, 500 yards is not unethical.
I appreciate this video. Being out west I usually have to shoot at medium distance because you can’t sneak up on anything. All my deer I have harvested though have been 190-300 yards max which gets me safely within a safe 2 moa buffer. And I shoot cold bore 4 round group at .874 moa on bench rest. So in the field I know I’m at best going to be able to get myself a 2 moa position and hold at best.
I learn some great stuff from you however i do wanna add one thing. The velocity lof the ammunition will determine if that ammo will expand. Its important to know minimum impact velocity of the bullet your choosing. It may not expand that far.
Just got back from an antelope hunt. Clean shot straight to the heart at 500yds. Having the right equipment and the right shooter behind the rifle means a clean kill. The key to being able to do this is practice, practice, practice. Hit the range more often hunters!
I’d like to add a couple things here to the topic. #1:) average hunting rifles instead of high performance bench or prs rifles. I understand the shooters were there for a different shooting competition so it’s not like they were portraying those as a more standard hunting rifle, but I’d still like to see more average cost rifles. #2:) the conversation about ethical distance is extremely varied and circumstantial. I hunt a lot of ag fields and have a greater opportunity for long range shots and a lower opportunity for short range shots. Experience shooting a longer distance more often than not at a game animal is worth more shot for shot than practice shots at a target. In my opinion, an ethical distance varies between each hunter and the daily weather variables. That also includes equipment, terrains etc. I typically hunt with a Bergara 7mm Rem Mag and my long range setup is a RPR 338 Lapua Mag. Both my rifles shoot way better than I can make them shoot and I 100% need more trigger time. I am by far no means an expert marksman or a “I’m good enough and don’t need to practice”. My rifle calibers can ethically transfer enough energy to efficiently kill a whitetail sized game animal out to 1000 and 1600 yards imo. I feel comfortable out to about 450-500 right now, but would love to take a deer at 1000.
Why would you love to take a deer at 1000? Why not just be happy with taking a deer? If you want to shoot 1,000 yards, try Long Range F-Class competitions.
@@ErikCortina to me, long range shooting and hunting has a similiar but inverted skill level as primitive equipment. Some people hunt with trad archery equipment or handguns because of the challenge to get close and the achievement to take game from a more challenging form of hunting. Similiar to still hunting as well. They get the thrill from getting super close. I enjoy hunting with archery equipment (not trad gear) and also enjoy still and stand hunting. I’ve taken deer from all manner of distances from 10 yards up to around 410-420 yards. In my area, I hunt a lot more ag fields where it’s much more difficult to predict where the animals will come from, which direction they’ll go and there isn’t nearly the cover surrounding the fields for holding cover. The cover is only used as travel corridors or temp bedding when they’re trying to hide from pressure. This makes it incredibly hard to try and pattern any deer, because they’re generally not using the same travel routes as consistently as other places. I also have permission on an intense thicket, but the opposite is true there. It’s so incredibly thick and large, they wander aimlessly through it and a large amount of deer stay tight in there all the time. Because of the thicket’s irregular and varying growth, the wind never holds consistent and pretty much swirls constantly. The surrounding property is open at fields that are no hunting so hunting the edge is out. With these as my options, I see a lot of deer at longer ranges or intensely close ranges. I am very successful when it comes to rifle hunting as it is and I’m getting more successful with archery every year. To answer your question I am happy when I harvest a deer. Last year I harvested 6. 2 with a bow, 18-27 yards, and 4 with a rifle. They were at 180, ~150x2, and 35 yards. My mother in law killed her first 2 at 215 and 235 last year. To me killing one at 1000+ would be an achievement like someone would get stalking up to one and touching it. I’m not ready to “give it a go” right now, nor would I try to set that up in the near future. What I’d like to do is get confident enough to be able to do so, then wait for the opportunity to present itself. If I feel confident, then I’d give it a shot. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t.
@@ErikCortina I personally cannot participate in the competitions. A couple reasons are that I don’t have the time between my family and work schedule or the ability to put the kind of money/effort into the equipment I know I’d want to have for that. I get extremely competitive and I’d dive into it so deep my wife, bank accounts and credit cards would hurt for the next 10 years. Lol
Thanks, Eric. This is a topic that needs to be addressed in the Hunting Community. Great job Now, let's take stock off the self Rifles that the average person will be using. To see the results. I would start at 500yrds and move in to 400yrds, then 300yrds
A 1 moa target is actually 1/2 moa. Perfectly zeroed if your off by more then 1/2 moa in any direction you would be off the target. With wind that’s an impressive hit
Great video! I'm sure there's a few people who could hit that ten out of ten times.. definitely not me 😊 I don't know anyone who hunts with anything setup like these! Now.. lightweight bolt action rifle.. lever action.. and pump actions are the norm in my area 😊 Most deer are harvested inside 200.. with the majority inside 75 yards! Pennsylvania hunters that hunt public lands in the mountains know exactly what I am talking about 😊 That being said.. the majority of people I know tag their deer in archery inside 30 yards.
Very nicely done Erik. I'd have liked to see a time eliment placed on the shot too. Game has a tendency to move. It's almost like they have 4 legs. Personally I don't dig the hyper long range hunting stuff. Bang away at paper, steel and stumps all you want but not at thing that bleed and die a horrible death. Add in the lack of woodmanship of being able to find that wounded game vs "must've missed, let's go kill something else". Many of us have spoken on this subject, but when a man with your shooting credentials actually demonstrates it, it give the subject a whole new prospective. Thank you. Cheers, Jeff
Man I love that double drop tine Deer! Just like with archery you need to practice at twice the range that you intend to shoot. Eg. I am only comfortable shooting whitetail at 30 yards so I practice a lot out to 60 yards. I hit consistently at 750 and 1000 on full size steel moose with my Remington 700 BDL in 7mag . 160 Swift Aframe. But I still want my shots on game 300 and in. There is a big difference between target shooting and hunting. So many variables in the field hunting. I really enjoyed this video. I’ll bet there would be more complete misses with regular hunting rifles! Cheers
Great video Erik. 1 minute target isnt as easy as everyone thinks. And when you are shooting in the field from imperfect positions, your group size will jump about 50%+. Not bad mouthing these guys, but a 6 Dasher or 6 BR? Thats fine if youre shooting varmints. But no way would I even attempt shooting a 300 lbs whitetail. Lets see some guys shooting actual hunting rigs, not competition rifles that weigh 20+ lbs.
This is a great idea, Erik! While I'm up here in NY, where "long range" is 350yds, 300-325 is my personal limit for an ethical shot with my 6.5CM. There are times where we're hunting smaller plots where the shot distance doesn't exceed 150yds. In those cases, I will occasionally bring an AR built for the purpose and use .223 Winchester Deer Season XP rounds. I wouldn't recommend that setup to new hunters/shooters (e.g. my younger kiddo's running a .243 for their first hunting rifle), but that AR will reliably put does in the freezer. 5.25" at 500 yards is a *small* impact point. Lots of skill overestimation when you've gotta do it with a cold bore.
Here in the Pacific North West the mountains and trees make it to where most shots are either less than 50 yards or in a clear cut where you are going to be 400 yard or more. You are almost never on the same elevation and have to adjust your dope accordingly. There is a 2500ft elevation change over the area we hunt in typically.
That's also the reason why for blacktail or bear hunting the most common rifles you'll see are large magnums (300win mag, 7mm mag or 338mag) and a 30-30 lever action for when you're in the brush. Plus you can use the same setup when you hunt Roosevelt elk in elk season
@@NWoutdoorsmanI shoot 300 win mag yup. Blacktail’s and Roosevelt elk. Custom reloads. My max is 500 yards. Yes I have taken several one shot kills at 500. Unfortunately I have a friend trying to do this and he can’t hit moa at 400. I tell him practice and don’t shoot past 200yards. I practice often. I am picky though to back myself up. I won’t shoot if it’s windy or if i can’t lay pron. max i shoot in bad conditions are 250. I refuse to wound an animal.
The more I watch this guy, the more I like him. I hear about people taking shots that they have no business taking and it bugs the crap out of me. My biggest fear when hunting is wounding and lose an animal.
Great video!! Still think 300 yards is far enough. I mean most times the weather conditions are not on ur side. And only a hand full of times have I have got to shoot off the ground. Always off a T post or a tree or setting down trying to brace off the knee so I can see over the grass. I don’t really care for setting my gun in a tripod and look over our wheat field. Although my 7 year old did last year. But its safe and now he can’t wait until this year 👍
I love this idea and bringing all these guys on to shoot this challenge. Hunters with all this technology at our disposal we need to have another conversation I believe is even more important conversation that is what is fair chase? At what distance can we honestly say we are being fare and ethical sportsman. So what’s fair chase?
Eric, have you ever talked to a UA-camr by the name "Desert Dog Outdoors?" He has been talking about this topic for a while and is a good source of ethical hunting videos. I think you should try and do a poscast with him.
I’m the ar shooter in the video. To clarify one thing, most of us shooting that day showed up to shoot the blackjack challenge. We were told about this separate challenge previous to showing up and I just saw it as an extra shot as I was really there to see how I could do on the blackjack. If I was showing up for just this challenge I would’ve used a different rifle and my actual hunting rifle probably missing the killzone but having more confidence in hitting the deer coldbore. I assume the blackjack challenge is why everyone else showed up as well and i’m sure Erik will post that at some point. This 1moa challenge is still humbling and I would never try to kill an animal at 500 with a target projectile, and a 5x optic as it’s very difficult to make an ethical shot.
I knew something was off...
It's definitely not easy. A few weeks ago (7/6/24) I was at a rifle class and while the instructor was running some drills with one part of the class the rest of us were allowed to shoot steel out to 600y; I had brought my 16" AR specifically for this if the opportunity came up.
I was making his at 400 with a 5x and 73(?)gr Superformance .223 off the shelf that I wasn't zeroed with, but couldn't connect at 500. The range was also overgrown with weeds and brush so I couldn't spot my misses.
Still a lot of fun.
Wich trigger tech do you have?
Wich trigger tech do you have?
@@blckrsterling respect!
FINALLY someone said it. Most people can’t shoot 1moa at 100. Don’t believe me, go to a public range and look at 100 yard targets. Great stuff, thanks Erik!
Backfire has been saying it forever, did a whole series on it...
It's true. A lot of the 100 yard targets I see at Public ranges look like a shotgun pattern. That said, I have a Tikka CTR that has literally never shot a 5-shot group 1 MOA or larger.
@@michaelhill6451why stop at 5? Do 10 and 20 to see the real dispersion of your rifle
Yup, the target frames take a real beating and I always find used targets without holes. 😅
@@5nyper If I want to fully vet a load, I usually do 6 5-round groups and aggregate into a 30 round group based on point of aim. Doing 5 rounds at a time gives the barrel a chance to cool.
Thank you Eric. As a South African hunting guide I always try to get clients within 300 yds for a shot. In the bush never over 150 yds. Absolutely hate the videos being circulated about all the long range shots, never see the videos with all the wounding though.
Well done sir.
Erik, I applaud you for broaching the topic - because the problem is real and there is a growing number of "hunters" who are nothing more than professional wound merchants because they want to brag about how far they shot AT a critter. I take your idea and go one step further - whatever range I can hit the kill zone 9/10 times at the range means that I can confidently shoot HALF that distance while hunting. So if I can dependably hit that target at 500 yards on the range then I am 'good' to engage a critter while hunting at 250 yards. Also, as you well know - just because you can hit a target @ 500 yards prone does NOT mean you are free to fling bullets at that distance from any position (seated, kneeling, tripod assisted, etc). People need to do better and stop trying to kill stuff so you can brag about it online. Hunt ethically. Hunt Quietly.
@@JohnDoe-hu9ve I agree for the most part. I don’t post anything I harvest. The post draws bad attention plus the long shooting . Only a few actually practice that far. I would venture to say more miss then wound.
I'm from Germany and we have highly regulated hunting in our country. We also have statistics on who shoots what at which distance. Virtually nobody shoots at anything above 150m (165 yards). The average, if I remember correctly, is around 85m (90 yards). Hunting license exam includes target shooting at 100m (110 yards) and you have to hit around 2 MOA consistently five times in a row, from a standing position (supporting hand grabs a vertical wooden stick and rifle rests on the back of that hand).
Since all German hunters are evidently capable of getting that close to the animal and reliably kill it, it is considered unncessary and thus unethical to shoot at anything further away. There are entire internet message boards full of German hunters talking about the weird US habit of wanting to kill things from 500 or even 1000 yards away.
last i checked, a kill zone on a deer is bigger then 5"
@@Grinstopher This is where we are headed in the U.S. with all these people virtue signaling stuff like this. What is next, bow hunting…trapping?
@@Grinstopher that’s really cool. If you made those rules in the state I live in the success rate would be less than .05 percent. The majority of shots are 200 yards. Plus we have a very short season. I’m not saying we all should be shooting far.
I grew up a city kid, never had any clue about hunting until i joined the Army and tried it for the first time with a buddy and his dad. He taught me a lot, and one of his major lessons was no matter the caliber always take your shots within 250 yards. He said if youre starving.....then dont shoot past 200 yards. 25 years later i remember all his lessons and they still apply. Thanks Mr. Schumann.
It almost like people try to replace the skill of stalking with fancy gear so they don’t have to put the work in.
I agree to a certain extent. Mountain hunting for goats and stone sheep though long shots are the norm.
@@janelleshortreed2030 nobody hunts those animals because they are hungry those animals are hunted for sport only ethical hunting is for food any hunting for just to kill a animal so you can say i killed it is NOT ETHICAL PERIOD
@@le3045acp I think if you harvest it legally and eat and use the parts you can then it’s as ethical as reasonably possible. If you were in an unregulated post-apocalypse you wouldn’t care if it was a deer or a big horn sheep. Nobody hunts deer legally because “they’re hungry” either. Let’s just be honest here.
@@le3045acpsure it is ethical we just don't like to think of what ethical really is
Most expensive rifle here “You can edit that out for my wife” 😂😂😂
And not edited out....ouch!
One of the guys stated that he only takes a 300 yd shot at most. That is an ethical hunter. It’s one thing to shoot at long range targets that don’t move. But, to shoot past a comfortable distance where you are confident, shows a real lack of respect for the animal. Thanks for proving the point!
last i checked, a kill zone on a deer is bigger then 5"
@colinkobel2868 that's just a guy who hunts within his abilities, on game he is comfortable to 300yds. All that is proven is that 1 individual's personal limit is 300yds.
@@NorthRiverGuide B-B-But… Because I can’t do it or am not comfortable with it, that means it’s unethical and shouldn’t be done, right?
In 30 years, my longest shot on game is under 250yds. I don't want to wound anything and have to track it. I want them to drop and still be in sight.
If 300 is ethical, with a 500 yard shot with a 1 moa rifle you're only adding two inches. ELK vital zones are way larger than 5 inches.
If you can shoot 1 moa, than you can make an ethical 500yd shot.
All of these guys would have killed this ELK except the dude who missed.
As a hunter, I agree for the most part. #1 These are not hunting rifles. #2... 1 MOA is not required to consistently harvest animals. #3 you're correct I have witnessed many hunters sight in with over 20 rounds and when they hit a paper plate they think they are good. #4 let's get some real hunters and rifles out here. #5 nobody in the world can hit 1 MOA at 500 yards 100% of the time. #6 I believe nobody should be shooting at game even elk or moose size over 500 yards. Many have but, but doesn't mean they should.
Your #5 couldn’t be more true. Especially cold bore having no fired a shot that day. To me when someone says they are shooting 1MOA at 500yds I assume they are talking about grouping of 1MOA or less bc I’m strictly a long range target shooter bc rifles are illegal here in Ohio. But just changing it to saying “can you hit a 1MOA target, one shot, cold bore” changes it dramatically. I can shoot sub MOA groups all day, but not many guys on earth can pick up their rifle and go dial to 500 yds and hit a 1MOA target first shot let alone repeating that feat numerous times.
#6 these are all prone shots and personally I’ve never been fortunate enough to be in a position to shoot prone while hunting big game.
@@motorboater211 Very true. Not on a single one of my hunts would the small Atlas style bipods used by all these shooters have provided enough elevation to take a shot. I carry trigger sticks and any supported shots I have been able to take were kneeling or standing off the sticks.
@@DoubleTap1115 I had a primary marksman instructor in marine corps boot camp that put 3 rounds open sight standing at 500 yards that you could cover with a dime. He had a recruit go get it and he covered it with a dime. He was also a scout sniper at one point in his marine corps career. But most people could not do it for sure.
I'm old school too, but todays hunting rifles aren't yesterday hunting rifles. Just because its in a chassis doesn't mean it isn't a hunting rifle. Of course the ar isn't a hunting rifle. They apparently just spend more than you do.
I love this challenge. Fantastic that it's a cold bore shot because in hunting it's generally 1 shot out of cold bore. Wonderful seeing the young boy shoot. Absolutely made the video for me.
"The deer was long f'ng gone" is the truest statement. 👍👍
The coolest would be to have a front berm, or a trench, that the target rises from at a random point along the backstop and it is only there for 20 seconds. You have 5 "chances" but may shoot only once, can shoot more if you take shot on any chance before fifth and score, but misses erase all prior scores and negate further "chances". It could be done at successively longer ranges from 100 to 500. Of course, looking at everyone's glistening arms, you would need a water truck available to stay hydrated during the session.
Fantastic video! Thank you for doing this. The overwhelming majority of shooters/hunters have egos WAAAY bigger than their skill level. It’s important that there is a distinction between hunting scenarios as opposed to a LR target session. There is also a difference between hunting and sniping. I hunt by stalking an animal. This means that I am not shooting from a well established position, and have only seconds to prepare and take the shot, usually from a shooting stick/ monopod. I would never take a shot over 300 yards, and generally try to shoot at 200 yards.
As a former big game guide and hunter. Most professional hunters never take shots at game past 400 yards . Unless they are completely comfortable with it. In the time I guided only 3 were confident in taking a shot ethically at game past that . And all of the 3 had extensive experience in predator or pest control . Foxes , ground hogs or prairie dogs. And were very proficient at shooting small game at very long range . Big game was easy for them. And most actually went hunting coyotes or prairie dogs for the secondary part of their hunts for fun and true bragging rights ! Jack rabbits at 600yds with a 300 winchester 😂😂! It was amazing. But in real big game hunting you are there for a trophy not wasting thousands of dollars to get a wounded shot up animal! They usually stalked up to what they were comfortable with and made ethical one shot kills ! Thank you Eric for the clarification of what that actually means!
That's what I'm saying I'm not taking one of these guys prairie dog hunting with me
Yep, hunting is about "getting closer" and being ethical enough to let the game walk if you can't.
The kid was spectacular . Bringin em up right Erik .
Love this. I grew up hunting in WY. Killed my first mule deer with iron sights at 130 yards. At 200 and beyond, wind calls are critical, especially in WY. My dad told me that if I had to take a shot, on any game, beyond 250, I didn’t know how to hunt.
I agree with your dad, generally speaking. I also live in Wyoming.
Your dad was 100% correct on that statement
You have a good dad. 👍
Some people don't have resources to keep shots that close. Time, money, and needs outweigh the "sport" of the pay to hunt game. How many animals did the Indians lose?
Well said, your Dad is a smart guy !!
This is what I love to see on UA-cam in the gun world.
Practical stuff that kills myths and people's perceptions.
That being said......"In all honesty, the deer was long fuckin gone by now" had me ROLLIN.
Cheers Erik
Oh cool- I follow your arm wrestling channel and live in MN too :)
@@deeeeeeps wild dude!!!
Thanks for the support!
Hey man…ive never been beat in armwrestling!
@@armassassinstrengthshop psssshhhh.
I'd smoke you bro.
You probably have weak ass grip.
Love the video. Craziest group of deer hunting rifles I've ever seen in 30+ years of hunting
Not really deer hunting rifles 😊
I shoot twice a week currently. Shooting my own reloads out of a TL3, 6 Dasher in a foundation with a trigger tech diamond and a vortex razor. Rifle shoots 109 Berger at 2870. My range has steel out to 750. So that’s the furthest I have shot in a controlled environment. With all that being said, not real sure I could do it either yet my rifle just printed a .166 followed up with a .204 this morning. But only at a hundred.
They put big giant steel plates out there and most guys can’t even get within 2-3 feet without a few shots to get it right. So I see this all the time and as hunting season prep is gonna start taking shape in the next month or so, the range will be packed. I’m always amazed as a guy who used to focus heavily on hogs, deer and occasionally elk, at the number of guys who can’t shoot a 5” group at 100 but are trying to hit Volkswagen size steel at 750 and wondering why they are missing. Gear and lots of practice could make that hunt a lot more enjoyable to them. I end up feeling pretty bad for all the damn game I know is about to get gut shot, or worse, after watching these guys in action. I am not perfect, and anyone can make a bad shot, but I certainly don’t want to take a shot and wound an animal if at all possible.
Doo doo happens, as they say. But if more hunters could see this video, it would be a hell of a coming to Jesus moment. Or should be anyways. Thanks Erik.
Well done Eric!
I manage a gun club.
The above comments are spot on. You would be amazed (probably not) at the number of folks that come to the range to "check" their rifle. They put up a paper plate at 100 and if they can hit it, call it good!
Disgusting.
Makes me feel sorry for the deer.
Let’s see the true hunting rifles.
Tikka lt. In 308. 200 yards or come as close as possible to the deere.
If someone tried to hunt with most of those rifles, they would be huffing and puffing in rough country. Maybe they're OK for a deer stand right off the road, but not stalking.
These are all super accurate 6mm comp rifles. Imagine using something else!
What is a "true hunting rifle"?
@@NorthRiverGuide Something you can sling over your shoulder and hike all day without having a stroke.
I remember a story about an old buffalo hunter who was shooting at a herd of antelope at over 1000 yds with a 45-110 buffalo gun. He stated that he hit more than he missed. An argument went back and forth between various writers of that time, that it wasn't possible vs. it could be done. When the hunter was finally confronted about his claim, he said: "I said I hit more than I missed. There was a huge herd and they were all standing close together, so most of the shots hit one of them."
I didn’t see anyone check for wind. That’s crazy. This is good practice. I set up a 12” Target with a 2.5” circle in the center. Every year before my hunt I verify all my reloads and their drop data at 800 yards. If I don’t get 3 for 3 in a 2.5” circle at 800 yards then I start over from scratch. I’m pretty tuff on myself. If im shooting on a live target I want a good clean kill. This was a great video. If you want to get better, practice, practice, practice!!! Thanks for sharing.
I like the concept, but no realistic hunting rifles in sight. I do love the content on this channel.
In all of the years that I've hunted the farthest shot that I've even seen anyone successfully taken was 538 yards. It was taken by my dad on a Roosevelt Elk that was standing absolutely broadside with only a slight head on breeze. He was shooting a .338 Win Mag with a perfect rest and the first shot was in the vitals and it just stood there like it wasn't hit so he shot it again and took out its shoulder. Both 225 grain Nosler Partitions were recovered and had excellent penetration. That was the longest shot at the biggest bull that he had ever taken and wasn't the norm for our hunting with most shots being taken in within 300 yards or so but he wanted to get it before it disappeared into the timber.
I grew up hunting on a lease where we had hunters from Houston drive up. The vast majority of shots were within 100 yards. They all still missed so often. One guy shot 7 times at 4 deer in one weekend. He swore up and down his rifle was off.
It wasn't.
Whenever they would miss, they'd greatly exaggerate the range. "It was out at 300 yards!" When in reality it was around 120 yards. If they ever did manage to contact the animal, I usually had to track it quite a ways. Then they'd curse that it was their rifle, "Don't got enough knockdown power".
Next season they'd be back with an even bigger magnum.
That's always the answer you can't control the one you have effectively so go " BIGGER" LOL. WRONG!
That was old gentleman jack and jack Daniels. Those 2 Jack's have saved many many deer
I know the type, “but I never miss”. I haven’t missed a deer yet but I missed a thousand squirrels before I ever shot at a deer lol
Outstanding video. None of these are practical guns to hunt with the mountains. So well said. I teach Hunters Ed and guide hunters. It always impress me more if a hunter can stalk and take an animal at close range.
Absolutely fantastic challenge Eric! 500 yards is a long way to be shooting at a deer sized target. To be fair, all except the last guy with the AR put kill shots down range.
Now run the same challenge at unknown distance. That would certainly be a challege!
Hah I didn’t even consider the fact that they know the exact range, good call! ‘It’s somewhere between 250 and 500’ would make it more interesting indeed!
I believe the vast majority of hunters are incapable of hitting that 1 MOA target in the field. Doesn’t mean they’re incapable of cleanly taking game, but 1 MOA @ 500 is a pipe dream for the vast majority of hunters. A 9” dinner plate maybe, but no way 1 MOA for the vast majority. Good demonstration.
Wouldn't 1 MOA at 500 yards be a hit within a 5 inch target?
@@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649yes, so 2 MOA in the field. Most hunters aren't cognizant of the range to kill-zone size correlation with regards to long range. Now add field conditions and constraints into the equation, and figure a good (let alone average) shooter would feel pressed to hit 3MOA @ 100 yards. That's 300 yards max without a stationary rest of some sort.
That's just shy of 2MOA, still not easy without a solid rest.
2 MOA is plenty good for deer to 500 yards. Easy.
I know 1 MOA at 500 is WAY outside my ability! So, yeah, I'd never take that shot in the field; even if ol' Moses is staring me down.
Clark did amazing! Better than most shooters 4 times his age! I love these challenges Erik. You should consider doing some youth's only challenges.
He’s a pretty incredible kid❤
Love these challenges. This just shows how much you need to practice and know your rifle and load and how to read conditions. And even then its not a given. See alot of channels proud of ~3/4” groups on long range rigs but to me that isnt good enough when trying 500+ on game. It almost never holds as wind and shooter form usually grow those dimensions.
Eric: Do you ever hunt long range?
Clarke: Only in between recess and lunch!
That kid made an impressive shot! Probably a lot better than I could with that same rifle.
That’s cool you let the guy for the follow up that’s part of the learning process. Nice
I had 2 friends in this video and I think you did an amazing job of making them look good.. keep up the good work.
This is great Erik. Very cool and appreciate this! Reality is what we need!
This was a few years ago at my local shooting range. A lot of people zeroing rifles for their hunts coming up including a neighbors shooting lane who was prepping for his first ever deer hunt.
We made some small talk during the day, and me having some experience in North Dakota gave him a little advice.
Midway through a session, a yearling pronghorn antelope ran directly into the shooting lanes between the 100 and 200 yard stands.
The RO yelled to ceasefire and everyone stopped.
Bringing up my binos, I then asked the fellow as we were watching it, "could you make that shot?"
He thought about it for a few seconds and said, "that's pretty far, soI don't think so".
With a big smile on my face I told him, "that's the absolutely correct answer! Shooting an animal is a totally different ballgame than shooting steel or paper!"
I have been hunting for the last 25 years here in South Africa and my longest kill shot was at 315m shooting another hunters wounded buck. Ethical hunting requires the hunter to make a one shot kill with confidence. If you can only shoot 1moa at 100m and do not know your rifle's bullet drop at longer ranges, then you should ethically not take a longer than 100m shot. As a dedicated hunter, l limit myself to a max of 250m. I know my bullet drop up to 500m but I will only shoot a long shot if I cannot get closer to a wounded buck or if the sun will set before we can get closer to the wounded buck. Here in Africa a buck will give you 2 to 5 seconds max before it moves. Erik, this is a great test to show hunters what is ethical and realistic in the hunting environment. You should give them a 5 second time limit for the shot.
As you may know if your scope is not sighted for the cold bore shot which most do not sight in for, it's almost impossible to hit at 500 yards.
Thank you Eric for your videos. I have allot of shooting experience from the military but it’s completely different kind of shooting. I learn a lot from your videos.
Thank you for that!
Now imagine when you start adding stipulations….lighter guns, field type positions, time limits.
8LB Magnum rifle with no muzzle brake.
@@foonus406well that’s dumb lol
@@Josh-uf1rv agreed!
@@Josh-uf1rv No suppressor is dumb but its's law in Canada, thank our backwards politics. There are many hunters that pay upwards of $5000 to buy exactly that. Any one of the top end carbon fiber Fierce rifles will get you in that weight category.
Lol no kidding. I'd be able to drill that with my 6.5 chassis gun, but I doubt I'd be able to with a strictly hunting rifle
I love this challenge as well Erik, very informative about long range shooting/hunting.
Many of the hunters i see here in Idaho will be at the range october 5th with their savage axis, remintington 700, ruger american shooting over the counter ammo to zero their rifles. These are the common hunters that need to do this challenge. They are hunting for fun and arent spending lots of cash to do it. These are the hunters making these type of shots on october 10th on the mule deer opener. I always hear shot after shot on opening morning, which im sure are followup shots at deer that are "out of range" for these hunters. The average joe hunter will not make this shot ethically.
Excellent video! As a former F class shooter and shot a couple PRS matches my limit is 200 yards….
In Mississippi I hear a lot of people who drt at 500 but I question their ability to range a target.
I primarily hunt Moose now and have had all my shots within 200 yards, which means I have about a 6 MOA kill zone. If conditions were right and had no way to stalk the moose, for example across a pond/swamp with sunlight disappearing soon, I would probably go up to 300. That said I have also never needed a follow-up shot, had a moose go more than 20 yards, or found a heart when gutting them. (I have harvested 6 moose)
Well that's a 12in circle at 200 I would hope so.
@hopewilliams6705 that was my point, ethically speaking I won't take shots I can make when I am hunting to ensure I have a fast clean takedown if something is a little off or the animal moves at the last second.
@@hopewilliams6705how many shots do you think you could hit off-hand, on a target that size? I'm a dammed good shot, and without a solid rest that's not exactly an easy shot to take.
Love this! Thank you for doing this video. As someone who enjoys long range shooting, but also has a deep respect for our large game, this is drill every hunter should run pre-hunt to determine their max range shot with their rifle. Share this and help fix the culture of takings shots well beyond your ability!
Part of the sad reality is many hunters do not have easy access to shoot at ranges with anything close to this distance.
1 MOA is way harder than people think.
Hitting that 1 MOA target at range can be very difficult even with a rifle/load that shoots sub MOA. I think a lot of people don’t realize that because they are focused more on group size than perfect shot placement.
Love your channel and the 500 yard challenge. Would you ever do a 500 yard challenge using STOCK factory rifles? For instance 308, 6.5 and so on with no mods ecluding scopes and bipods, ammo being optiinal. I am starting to shoot sime long- ish range with my Savage axis 6.5 and just think it would be interesting to see what can be done with factory stock rifles. Thanks for the content and keep it up, i have learned a lot. Keep it centered my friend.
All the PRS guns….. 😂
You couldn't pack most of these guns on a western deer or elk hunt!
Yeah I feel like if this was an accurate challenge it would be limited to hunting rifles. I know there will be all kinds of dudes saying they carry their 22 lb foundation custom rifle hunting. But yeah. At least a weight limit.
Exactly what I thought 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
We'res all the 700 bdl 30/06s and 110 300win LMAO proof 7k rifles are not any better then Ruger American 😂😂😂 for hunting
If success is this low with proper competition rifles you can expect even worse out of 99% of hunting rifles.
I love this series! Hope to see more soon! Thus is putting into reality what I've heard you say for many years. Love it. Thank you for doing this.
This is so important that people should learn ethical hunting.
I met a person bragging how his grandson kills rockrabbits with a breakneck airgun. How many had been wounded with gutshots and scurried away to die agonizingly? Not ethical imo.
If you have a 6.5 Creedmoor you can take em farther than that, so they say!! Thank Eric for setting some straight here. In the field shooting very different than off a bench. Off a bench at paper there is no "rush".. Ethical is knowing your limits.
I have the same target but with a 10” swinger. In reality, there are lots of spots outside that 10” swinger that would also be kill shots. Like you said, they’d all have been ethical kill shots but one. I think a 10” swinger would be more realistic and having them do it from different yardages and positions. But that is a lot of additional effort, so I can see why you did it that way.
Being comfortable with your rifle and practicing cold bore shots gets you 1st round on target a lot more. Something I have found with my custom barrels at distance, quite often, 1st shot on, 2nd shot slow 0.5-1.0 moa low, then following shots moving back up to 1st shot POI as barrel and chamber warm up.
Love watching your videos and agree with the point your making. That said, you don't have to be a MOA shooter to hunt. Lots of factors that go into when and where to take a shot. We shoot a lot and I would say me and my son have a few rifles that consistently shoot 1/2 MOA. We will take 500 yard shots on game.....but only under ideal circumstances and with appropriate gear. Hunters need to know their limitations and be realistic with shots that are presented.
By the way.....Love the target and have already looked up the company. I wish they made them in 1/2" so it would handle up to 338 lapua. Still may have to purchase a couple of the whitetail targets for the property / shooting range.....super cool.
I think you hit the nail on the head here with the idea of what’s a realistic ethical distance, however if we are being fair that is essentially a heart shot at 500 challenge.
Let’s see a heart shot and an actual vital zone success rate
Exactly, and I purposefully miss the heart. The meat is too good.
I like how you mentioned that the kill zone is larger than 1 MOA, but people need to take into account that their grouping is naturally going to open up with adrenaline, animal taking a step when the shot breaks, etc. So in a controlled environment, I totally agree that the "ethical kill zone" on a target needs to be smaller than that of actual size.
This is a good way to humble a lot of people. a cold-bore shot will very often not land on your normal zero so you have to spend time with your rifle and and make notes (ammo dependent) on where that 1st shot lands. While I don't agree that 1MoA is the standard above which it's not ethical (I'd argue 1.5) but it definitely is good to remind people that hunting is not target shooting or even match shooting. You have one chance to get it right and 500yds is no joke even for people that have serious shooting chops. Realistically though, most guys there made deer killing shots just not perfect 1 MoA shots.
I’ll point out that 4 out of 5 shooters cold bore shots would have killed the deer. The .223 has lowest BC of all of them and was most likely to miss. Each hunter has the responsibility to know his shooting system and have practiced enough to decide if he can put a shot in the kill zone. Most need a lot more practice but a few have invested the time and money in equipment and are ethically able to consistently kill animals at that range and beyond.
If you read back up in the replies, the guy with the .223 posted. He and the others had shown up for the Blackjack Challenge and were all of a sudden given this opportunity. If he had known there would be a hunter's challenge, he would have brought a rifle he normally carries for hunting. Rifles can be built for different jobs.
Great video! And an even better question! Just last season, I passed a 200 yard shot on a VERY nice buck, with MY OWN rifle. I hadn't practiced at that range with that particular rifle and couldn't squeeze the trigger!
Kill zone of a deer is way larger than a MOA at 500 yards.
Not an ethical one.
These are target rifles and certainly not field conditions
@deeeeeeps what exactly are you insinuating?
Only heart shots are ethical?
I'm not encouraging long-range hunting or supporting it.
My point is that as much as long-range hunting may be unethical for most, a 5-inch kill zone is not a reality..
Ethically hunting at long range is way more technical and difficult, and there was no need to make it more difficult than it is already as displayed in the video.
Erick could have just used a realistic killl zone and gotten the point across.
These shooters were shooting at a known distance, had likely watched the previuos shooters, and were using target rigs more expensive than 80% of the rifle hitting the woods and could barely keep it in the kill zone.
Point Proven!
There was no need to put his finger on the scale.
@deeeeeeps what exactly are you insinuating?
Only heart shots are ethical?
I'm not encouraging long-range hunting or supporting it.
My point is that as much as long-range hunting may be unethical for most, a 5-inch kill zone is not a reality..
Ethically hunting at long range is way more technical and difficult, and there was no need to make it more difficult than it is already as displayed in the video.
Erick could have just used a realistic killl zone and gotten the point across.
These shooters were shooting at a known distance, had likely watched the previuos shooters, and were using target rigs more expensive than 80% of the rifle hitting the woods and could barely keep it in the kill zone.
Point Proven!
There was no need to put his finger on the scale.
@@Do-UR-Research2749 Hearts are about 3" Over 5" You can easily miss a lung and the animal can run off and expire in a swamp 2 miles away. That is not ethical.
Hi Erik, In New Zealand the NZ Deer Stalkers Association use a target called the Wilkinson's Target for this type of match. This is a similar silhouette of a deer but without any specific aim point , because deer normally don't have those. It is painted all the one colour and forces the shooter to determine where and how to place the shot for ethical hunting. There is normally a 5 shot groups and scoring is done with a template. Shooting can be done from different ranges from standing, kneeling, sitting and prone. I believe every hunter should give this a go before they decide what an ethical shot is for them. I've been shooting and hunting all of my life and I couldn't believe how difficult this is.
Cheers for the excellent series.
Thank you.
With the exception of the miss over the top, all the hits were kill shots.
If you can’t make the shot, or have never taken the shot don’t shoot. Great stuff Eric
I've personally witnessed my father shoot a deer and drop it cold at 600 yards with a Remington 700 chambered in .270 and a cheap buckmaster scope in the plains of ND. He shot from an elevated position on a hill.
He was a former Marine.
Me and my dad never even cared to take game; we liked just being out in the woods in a hunting setting basically. With that said, I do wish there was a secondary ring for what was just a killzone shot for this challenge. 1 MOA for many shooters, cold-bore, is a rough challenge and as far as I understand it is more than necessary in terms of accuracy on target to drop the animal.
The minimum cartridge should retain no less than 1000ftlbs @ 500yds.
For elk, I would say 1500.
Energy on target doesn't mean as much, rather what does the bullet do to your intended target. I've seen multiple people take down elk with 308, 7-08, 6.5 CM, and 243 Win. from distances farther than that. What about bow hunters?
Antelope, elk, goat, moose, etc. is all about location. Hell, subsonic 8.6 BO has taken down moose and elk and that is 700 ft/lbs.
“Minimum energy” is fud lore
6mm 105 Bergers at 2900fps at the muzzle has 1070 foot pounds of energy at 500 yards.
@@perrytilton5221 You are correct that energy isn't an "end all" fact. Arrows are much heavier then bullets and have more momentum because of it. Most bullets need 2k fps to open and enough momentum to carry through the vitals. I know it's a bit of an old wives tale but it's a number most people can get and understand.
Eric, thankyou for this much needed video. These long range snipers who shoot at living animals at extended distances have no respect for the animals. Question: Is this about the animal or is this about you? No place for that in ethical hunting.
I know several of them lobbing rounds at elk at 800 yards plus and they've wounded and not tracked far more than they've bagged ethically. If you want to play pretend sniper, shoot steel.
This is 100%. Cliff Grey, who was an outfitter and guide has the same idea in a few of his vids. whereas he focuses on mountain conditions and hunting orientated rifles. Being practical with your skillset, though humbling, is certainly the way to go.
I'm doing tests at the range with a few different rifles, but the same optic. Lots of dry firing before a shot gets fired just to get used to the feel again, even from the bench for each rifle. Which is something to keep in mind when heading into the field. Knowing your cold bore zero and choosing quality components for your conditions is pretty key.
I'd maybe stretch to 350 370, if I had an excellent load and I was waiting set up down a bush cutline with no wind conditions.
Even closer if possible, under 200 yards is ideal. Pretty rare to see 500 where I'm located, unless you're moose hunting by boat, or up above the treeline hunting caribou.
We have a coyote target with a popper in the vitals that is roughly 1moa at 500yds. We decided to replicate this challenge, and no drought that it is tough. The problem we had was the wind reading. We load our own rounds and have range tickets out to 600 for hunting, and 1000 for target only. Our rifles are hunting rifles, Ranch owner was using his Remington 700 .308 with Zeiss scope and jewel trigger, mine is a stock Savage 110 in 6.5 cm, with Athlon Ares scope. The wind was calm when we first tried the challenge and hit the popper, went back out after doing some work around the ranch and the wind had picked up. I couldn't hit it with in 3 shots, my friend hit it after the 2nd shot. Our range is about 30yds wide through the woods off the back porch of the ranch house. The woods start at the 200yd mark. The range starts off running down hill off the back porch, levels out at the 200 mark and starts back up a gradual climb at the 250 mark. At the 400 mark we have a road that crosses the range the wind can get a little tricky past there. This was a humbling experience. We would love a chance to come down to your place and take the challenge or have you come to our place and try it on our range. Anyway we love your content and find your videos very informative. Thank you.
Hey Erik, Love you're show's and product line! This cold bore hunting challenge is another great idea! But as a 64 year old life long local competition shooter at 600 BR and 1000 yd matches with a full vault of custom high end competition and hunting rifle's I want to say this. These shooter's need to show up with a rifle that you can actually pack into the middle of nowhere and back out to hunt with. Say maybe under 14 lbs. Just to throw out a number for now. And they need to show up with enough velocity and down range energy to swiftly and humanly harvest that buck. I as a competition shooter and a lifelong hunter would love to see you do this. It would separate the real deal guy's from the wannabes. And as far as myself I can consistently stay on 3" round steel at 500 and 600 with about all my rifle's. Been building my own ammunition for almost 30 years. Hope that you get a chance to read this and ponder it.
Magnum cartridges only with 8LB maximum weight w/Scope. NO Brakes or Suppressors. I'd love to see it too. Being stuck in Canada we don't have the option to use suppressors to begin with. EC tuner (not brake) allowed! This is my 7PRC Fierce mountain reaper hunting rig that I can carry and shoot without ruining the hunt with a headache from having to wear ear protection all day.
Yes.. load development with no muzzle brake was rough.
His point was probably hge knew almost no one would make it even with their fancy setups let alone a lightweight rifle you would actually take with you.
@@foonus406 what idiot shoots mag's at a deer?.... also, lots of us dont need to hike in with guns... im in ohio, the most i have ever walked with my gun for hunting is 2 to 300y and most of the time it was less then 100y.
I shoot groundhogs all summer, and deer in the winter.
the groundhogs are 5" to 12" and i have hundreds of kills from 300-900y.
videos here... ua-cam.com/video/Y9-NJ6rLc7Q/v-deo.html&pp=gAQBiAQB
if i could use those guns for deer, i have no issue killing at 600+
but im limited to a 450BM... so most of my kills have been at 200y
Eric, Cold bore shooting should be the top of list, cold ammo, sighting in with conditions that may be encountered in area. When possible in region where hunting. Having flown in extreme weather, one learns the wind affect on objects in flight. This knowledge identifying objects on the ground blowing in the wind has aided me over time to hit objects at distance by holding to compensate. Constantly checking with bino’s the actions of anything affected ( grasses, loose soil, leaves , snow ) by wind and learn that affect on your bullets in flight.
My experience is the high shoulder shot is lethal even when the animal moves it’s a miss or spine shot. What effect does temperature have on the cold shot, powder ignition? Wind, bullet weight, caliber, accuracy of firearm used. Elmer Keith once told me “ Beware of the guy with one gun, he likely knows how to shoot it”
Eric, I did not hear the caliber of the guy that hit the red tag. Excellent encouraging the guy with the AR to redeem himself as deer do not always run after a shot is fired. I hope this reduces the poor choice of long range shots by those unprepared. Long overdue! Excellent!!!!!!
My favorite part was when the young man answered "yes sir". Don't hear respect from kids his age much anymore. Another great video Mr. Cortina!!
Glad you enjoyed it
Well done Eric, great to see this being proved.
I started shooting f-class to improve my long range hunting ability. The better I became, the more I realized that "ethical long range" shots on game are a myth.
Thanks for doing this Erik! It really opened my eyes.
This is a better challenge. This is great. Spot on.
Good challenge. I think people get confused that they can shoot one MOA group’s fairly regular, I mean what I’m trying to say is we spend a lot to get a rifle that’s capable but to actually cold bore and hit one MOA takes a ton of work and knowledge for a cold bore one shot.
I would like to se that again though with guys bringing more common hunting rifles and calibers. 28 Nosler, 300 PRC, 300 WIN MAG, 7mm REM Mag and maybe some legendary 30 06 or 270 Win. Surely they’d buck the wind a little better.
I love these challenging videos. I think because as a Hunter and competitive archer it’s how I’ve practiced for decades. I take my bow out for weeks before deer season and take one shot at varying distances and shoot from positions I may hunt. Kneeling in a blind, sitting in a stand, standing in a stand, etc. As a competitive shooter that can make some really long shots and I was real surprised at how much that distance was cut when there’s no practice and you throw in the shooting positions.
Excellent video, I wouldn't be able to make that shot on my best day!!!
Looking forward to more episodes, very eye opening I believe.
When I hunted in Baudette, MN we routinely took deer from 300-500 yards with a .300 Weatherby Magnum. Those old Nosler ballistic tips were walking the dog at 3,200 fps and we never wounded a deer. Any round hitting in the lungs was a kill shot. I realize that shooting isn't for everyone. but after relocating farther south in the deep woods it took me a few years to get used to 100 yard shots with only 3-5 seconds to go from spotting a deer to site picture to squeeze when I was used to spending 5 minute lining up the shot I wanted across a field. With the right rifle, training and patience, 500 yards is not unethical.
I appreciate this video. Being out west I usually have to shoot at medium distance because you can’t sneak up on anything. All my deer I have harvested though have been 190-300 yards max which gets me safely within a safe 2 moa buffer. And I shoot cold bore 4 round group at .874 moa on bench rest. So in the field I know I’m at best going to be able to get myself a 2 moa position and hold at best.
6mm 105gr. Bergers with a muzzle velocity of 2900fps has 1070.9 foot pounds of energy at 500 yards....for everyone saying their 6mm wasn't enough gun.
I learn some great stuff from you however i do wanna add one thing. The velocity lof the ammunition will determine if that ammo will expand. Its important to know minimum impact velocity of the bullet your choosing. It may not expand that far.
Just got back from an antelope hunt. Clean shot straight to the heart at 500yds. Having the right equipment and the right shooter behind the rifle means a clean kill. The key to being able to do this is practice, practice, practice. Hit the range more often hunters!
I’d like to add a couple things here to the topic. #1:) average hunting rifles instead of high performance bench or prs rifles. I understand the shooters were there for a different shooting competition so it’s not like they were portraying those as a more standard hunting rifle, but I’d still like to see more average cost rifles.
#2:) the conversation about ethical distance is extremely varied and circumstantial. I hunt a lot of ag fields and have a greater opportunity for long range shots and a lower opportunity for short range shots. Experience shooting a longer distance more often than not at a game animal is worth more shot for shot than practice shots at a target.
In my opinion, an ethical distance varies between each hunter and the daily weather variables. That also includes equipment, terrains etc.
I typically hunt with a Bergara 7mm Rem Mag and my long range setup is a RPR 338 Lapua Mag. Both my rifles shoot way better than I can make them shoot and I 100% need more trigger time. I am by far no means an expert marksman or a “I’m good enough and don’t need to practice”. My rifle calibers can ethically transfer enough energy to efficiently kill a whitetail sized game animal out to 1000 and 1600 yards imo. I feel comfortable out to about 450-500 right now, but would love to take a deer at 1000.
Why would you love to take a deer at 1000? Why not just be happy with taking a deer? If you want to shoot 1,000 yards, try Long Range F-Class competitions.
@@ErikCortina to me, long range shooting and hunting has a similiar but inverted skill level as primitive equipment.
Some people hunt with trad archery equipment or handguns because of the challenge to get close and the achievement to take game from a more challenging form of hunting. Similiar to still hunting as well. They get the thrill from getting super close. I enjoy hunting with archery equipment (not trad gear) and also enjoy still and stand hunting. I’ve taken deer from all manner of distances from 10 yards up to around 410-420 yards.
In my area, I hunt a lot more ag fields where it’s much more difficult to predict where the animals will come from, which direction they’ll go and there isn’t nearly the cover surrounding the fields for holding cover. The cover is only used as travel corridors or temp bedding when they’re trying to hide from pressure. This makes it incredibly hard to try and pattern any deer, because they’re generally not using the same travel routes as consistently as other places. I also have permission on an intense thicket, but the opposite is true there. It’s so incredibly thick and large, they wander aimlessly through it and a large amount of deer stay tight in there all the time. Because of the thicket’s irregular and varying growth, the wind never holds consistent and pretty much swirls constantly. The surrounding property is open at fields that are no hunting so hunting the edge is out.
With these as my options, I see a lot of deer at longer ranges or intensely close ranges. I am very successful when it comes to rifle hunting as it is and I’m getting more successful with archery every year.
To answer your question I am happy when I harvest a deer. Last year I harvested 6. 2 with a bow, 18-27 yards, and 4 with a rifle. They were at 180, ~150x2, and 35 yards. My mother in law killed her first 2 at 215 and 235 last year.
To me killing one at 1000+ would be an achievement like someone would get stalking up to one and touching it. I’m not ready to “give it a go” right now, nor would I try to set that up in the near future. What I’d like to do is get confident enough to be able to do so, then wait for the opportunity to present itself. If I feel confident, then I’d give it a shot. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t.
@@ErikCortina I personally cannot participate in the competitions. A couple reasons are that I don’t have the time between my family and work schedule or the ability to put the kind of money/effort into the equipment I know I’d want to have for that.
I get extremely competitive and I’d dive into it so deep my wife, bank accounts and credit cards would hurt for the next 10 years. Lol
That was a great challenge. That definitely gives me as a hunter a perspective that I agree with for ethical shots.
Thanks, Eric. This is a topic that needs to be addressed in the Hunting Community. Great job
Now, let's take stock off the self Rifles that the average person will be using. To see the results. I would start at 500yrds and move in to 400yrds, then 300yrds
A 1 moa target is actually 1/2 moa. Perfectly zeroed if your off by more then 1/2 moa in any direction you would be off the target. With wind that’s an impressive hit
Yep, and the kill zone on an average white tail is ~6 MOA so not so accurate all the way around.
Great video! I'm sure there's a few people who could hit that ten out of ten times.. definitely not me 😊
I don't know anyone who hunts with anything setup like these!
Now.. lightweight bolt action rifle.. lever action.. and pump actions are the norm in my area 😊
Most deer are harvested inside 200.. with the majority inside 75 yards!
Pennsylvania hunters that hunt public lands in the mountains know exactly what I am talking about 😊
That being said.. the majority of people I know tag their deer in archery inside 30 yards.
Very nicely done Erik. I'd have liked to see a time eliment placed on the shot too. Game has a tendency to move. It's almost like they have 4 legs. Personally I don't dig the hyper long range hunting stuff. Bang away at paper, steel and stumps all you want but not at thing that bleed and die a horrible death. Add in the lack of woodmanship of being able to find that wounded game vs "must've missed, let's go kill something else". Many of us have spoken on this subject, but when a man with your shooting credentials actually demonstrates it, it give the subject a whole new prospective.
Thank you.
Cheers, Jeff
Man I love that double drop tine Deer!
Just like with archery you need to practice at twice the range that you intend to shoot.
Eg. I am only comfortable shooting whitetail at 30 yards so I practice a lot out to 60 yards.
I hit consistently at 750 and 1000 on full size steel moose with my Remington 700 BDL in 7mag .
160 Swift Aframe.
But I still want my shots on game 300 and in.
There is a big difference between target shooting and hunting. So many variables in the field hunting.
I really enjoyed this video.
I’ll bet there would be more complete misses with regular hunting rifles!
Cheers
Great video Erik.
1 minute target isnt as easy as everyone thinks. And when you are shooting in the field from imperfect positions, your group size will jump about 50%+.
Not bad mouthing these guys, but a 6 Dasher or 6 BR? Thats fine if youre shooting varmints. But no way would I even attempt shooting a 300 lbs whitetail. Lets see some guys shooting actual hunting rigs, not competition rifles that weigh 20+ lbs.
This is a great idea, Erik! While I'm up here in NY, where "long range" is 350yds, 300-325 is my personal limit for an ethical shot with my 6.5CM. There are times where we're hunting smaller plots where the shot distance doesn't exceed 150yds. In those cases, I will occasionally bring an AR built for the purpose and use .223 Winchester Deer Season XP rounds. I wouldn't recommend that setup to new hunters/shooters (e.g. my younger kiddo's running a .243 for their first hunting rifle), but that AR will reliably put does in the freezer.
5.25" at 500 yards is a *small* impact point. Lots of skill overestimation when you've gotta do it with a cold bore.
Thank You for putting this out there. There is by far too much emphasis on long range, unethical shooting.
every "miss" was a 100% ethical kill shot....
Here in the Pacific North West the mountains and trees make it to where most shots are either less than 50 yards or in a clear cut where you are going to be 400 yard or more. You are almost never on the same elevation and have to adjust your dope accordingly. There is a 2500ft elevation change over the area we hunt in typically.
That's also the reason why for blacktail or bear hunting the most common rifles you'll see are large magnums (300win mag, 7mm mag or 338mag) and a 30-30 lever action for when you're in the brush. Plus you can use the same setup when you hunt Roosevelt elk in elk season
@@NWoutdoorsmanI shoot 300 win mag yup. Blacktail’s and Roosevelt elk. Custom reloads. My max is 500 yards. Yes I have taken several one shot kills at 500. Unfortunately I have a friend trying to do this and he can’t hit moa at 400. I tell him practice and don’t shoot past 200yards. I practice often. I am picky though to back myself up. I won’t shoot if it’s windy or if i can’t lay pron. max i shoot in bad conditions are 250. I refuse to wound an animal.
I’d never aim that low. I always aim for a medium to high shoulder shot. Plus an exit wound is what you want.
Hunting rigs only would be my answer, but love all your videos Mr. Cortina
The more I watch this guy, the more I like him. I hear about people taking shots that they have no business taking and it bugs the crap out of me. My biggest fear when hunting is wounding and lose an animal.
Thanks for the great content we’ve been waiting
Great work Erik. Another example of how we are not as good as we think we are.
Great video!! Still think 300 yards is far enough. I mean most times the weather conditions are not on ur side. And only a hand full of times have I have got to shoot off the ground. Always off a T post or a tree or setting down trying to brace off the knee so I can see over the grass. I don’t really care for setting my gun in a tripod and look over our wheat field. Although my 7 year old did last year. But its safe and now he can’t wait until this year 👍
Great video. Never would have imagined this outcome
I love this idea and bringing all these guys on to shoot this challenge. Hunters with all this technology at our disposal we need to have another conversation I believe is even more important conversation that is what is fair chase? At what distance can we honestly say we are being fare and ethical sportsman. So what’s fair chase?
Eric, have you ever talked to a UA-camr by the name "Desert Dog Outdoors?" He has been talking about this topic for a while and is a good source of ethical hunting videos. I think you should try and do a poscast with him.