This is for Liz at the museum, one of my visits to museum while back..noticed cap stones from Roosevelt.but no time capsule. I got a hold of SRP, history director..they had never opened it yet, finally found it in storage.they were to put on display at pdo in tempe.forrest Ser, tore down auntie bills home,where Roosevelt stayed while at dam.i think your Museum be better home for time capsule documents.thanks TD.
4:18 The black tape was put on the Stones in the early 1960's when they were shown to the public for the first time. The owner of the Stones at that time (Travis Marlowe) did not those areas seen by the public because he was still actively looking for the treasure himself. (Look for June 12, 1964 TIME Magazine page 90-94)
yeah this is one of the first things that I pondered... why would anyone make a map this way? It's impractical for most purposes. the only thing it really has as an advantage over paper is well.... lasting a long time. That's not what you'd want most as a miner working a claim. Also as someone pointed out to me long ago, whoever made this was probably transcribing a paper map. This style of engraving does not easily lend itself to compiling a map and the map as we see it today is pretty clean looking. It doesn't have a lot of revisions on it. If it was fired clay that'd be different. With clay it's easy to mark out things and redraw them repeatedly. Then after you get it right you fire it to make it keep that shape. But carved stone doesn't work that way. You can't "erase" errors, you only get one shot at carving. Which is the other thing... this was a LOT of skilled work... why would miners do that? Like I said before a STONE tablet is impractical unless you want it to last for years. Why would an active mining organization do it that way? The Peraltas were about getting rich by mining gold. Buried treasure wasn't really their thing. Sure, they'd probably hidden gold caches, but they didn't do that for long term storage. Another thing is... the Peraltas had multiple sites, and presumably multiple maps, if they even made maps. Why this one? So my question is: do we have evidence the Peraltas ever made carved stone maps like this? That's the reason I'd see as most likely to discredit it as genuine.
why make your own story when you can just repeat history....ical accounts... of other people's stories. soooo many stories have been told about that stuff it's impossible to be sure of anything. :/
Charlie I went back out to where the horse is located with Ralph Henderson right after the awards at Goldfield. Did you know that in the same area of the horse you can see the 1847 on a rock face just to the east. I have pictures to prove that and I think I'll go show them to my new friend at the museum. You guys have your stories mixed up. Bill Hibdon sent a group of guys up to the top of picacho Butte in search of a rock with a ❤️ and cross carved on it. That rock marked the back entrance to father Usibio Kino's cave up there. I'm one of those guys. Three of us rolled that rock over so it will never be found again. One of us ( Clay Reinholt) is no longer alive. Fact check this. Bill Hibdon was told by the Apaches where this was after he was caught in an Indian burial chamber behind Queen Valley. He found 224 1/2 lbs of gold up there after he and his partner found the heart rock.
Personally i belive thats exactly what happened, i think it was back in the 30s someone did find a burro skeleton with ore bags still tied to it, i dont belive there ever was a dutchman mine or if there was it was claimed and mined out under the mammoth or one of the others in goldfield, i mean really how many thousands of professional geologists and miners have combed those mountains not to mention the thousands that have gone out there looking over what 150 years? Its eather already mined or never really excised. The dutchman had what 40lbs of ore under his bed? How much did they load onto burroes?.... o.O
Thank you for all your sharing, I could not have discovered the caverna aurum with out you! the dutchman is cavern aurum marked on the peralta latin stone! The stone crosses show "noto triangulum and Fornix " which is marked on the latin stone as well. and the churches treasure was placed there, but the peraltas were heading out of the mountains and heading home when they were killed, so did they empty their caches and load all their gold right then? The latin heart leads to three mines one being the silver chief but this was not jacob waltz's mine, he hit the caverna aurum, then there are two other mines located on the latin heart!
IF YOU COULD SEE WHERE LDM YOU COULD BELIVE THE STONES MAPS ITS THE SAME THE TOUTUGA MAP POINTS WITH THE STONES MAPS THE WITCH ROCK MTN UP WEST BOULDER WITH THE SAME YEAR ON WITCHROCK .
the horse map says El Cogollo de sante fe. you see the a's are a's and the o's are o's. cogollo is hemp...fyi I figured that out one day while looking at it. the g is the old school style.
The inscriptions with the hourse on the stone maps says spirit horse and the heart is symbolic of Catholic and the priest has nothing to do with peralta. Wouldn't it be more likely to be Jesuits?
Its amazing how she said the stone crosses were missing then later she found replicas, hmmm....me thinks someone took an artifact and replaced them with replicas.
I just find it hard to believe that thousands of people have searched over a hundred years thoroly and none of these gold mines have been found. Folk lore and campfire stories 98% of the time. Who knows. Maybe one day someone will find that one of them.
@@thomasrice4078 Well, if you look up the "hidden canyon" video they did, some places are ventured into so rarely they may as well not be. In that video they talk about how one of them found a campsite from the 1970s that had seemingly been undisturbed since it was abandoned by whoever made it(also the person who made it probably died). It had a skeleton of a pack animal laying there that had seemingly died tied to a tree.
You people don’t realize how rough the mountain really is. Myself and several other people I know have ventured into the mountains and found artifacts that haven’t been disturbed in hundreds of years. Most normal people wouldn’t dare explore deep into the mountain
I just like to point out that yes the stones was geologic tested and no they are not from the area also there was reserch done into the person who claimed to find them, his chimney had identical carvings that he done in the sandstone that made up the chimney, even his own family back up that he himself carved the stones and also theres a picture of the stones when he found them on the bumper of his car taken when he found them, they do not match the stones in the museum, so personally i belive the entire stine maps are a hox... cool story but a hox and even the Spanish text is misspelled i would think someone in charge of recording and documenting information for the king of spain could at least spell coman Spanish
yeah, the biggest question I've seen anyone ask... why would miners make stone tablet maps? massive work, time consuming, hard to transport... Also the horse carving isn't even a map. What value would it have had to miners working mines?
There are gold mines in the superstition mountains, but the stone maps are most likely art work or a distraction from the real location. If you were going to make a map of a gold mine why would you carve it out of stone. Too much work. There is a real working gold mine on the east side of the superstition mountain called the silver king that produced a lot of gold and silver until it was shut down. where there is one gold mine there are other veins nearby. People should look at the geology look at where other gold was found and maybe they can find another rich vein somewhere.
'Why carve them out of stone?' My guess is boredom. I bet the Spanish expeditions worked the mine for months at a time. That's a lot of evenings by the fire with not much to do.
@@nathanielcohen9890 ok tthe maps are fake do a lil reserch one the stone isnt native 2 the guy that found them had similar carvings in his stone chimney, 3 puctures of the maps when found sitting on his car bumber dont match the ones in the museum 4 and yes things was cruder backbthen but i believe that someone recording information to report or keep track of the Spanish kings records could spell simple Spanish.... the words are misspelled... even the guy that found thems family was interviewed and they believe he carved them himself
@@LuckyBaldwin777 that's a stretch, why? because this map isn't random doodles. It's careful precision work, and while it's possible a miner could have that skill... this map isn't the sort of thing that'd be a product of graffiti.
@@LuckyBaldwin777 So? You described them as carvings made out of boredom, whether you used the specific word "graffiti" or not is irrelevant. Whoever made them did some very precise engraving and carefully planned too. that's not what you get from someone making a side art project
I know where the mine is.... It's no where near the superstition mountains, my Apache ancestors may have attacked the Peralta's near the superstition mountains and that's where all the evidence was dropped and rediscovered years later but truth is the mine is no where near the superstition mountains the Peralta's were just passing around those mountains with whatever they can carry but we're attacked by Apaches. The Freemasons found where the mine is located and today it's one of the largest mines in Arizona located in Globe/Miami.
i have read dozens of books on the LDM and I feel the Peralta Stones, Crosses and the Which stone , they are all bogus. there is a mysterious theatrical quality to all of this. its hard to figure out the real clues to the LDM story because there is so much balony now mixed in with the clues and story. Clay Worst said it best," dont let the facts get in the way of a GOOD STORY. It the Peralta Stones and related stones are genuine it could be establishes with scientific tests and styudy. I have read several credible reports that the stones are fake. Really interesting to conspiracy junkies but fake none the less.
Yes , AND she seems to be very good at being deceptive also . Ramroding the museum POSSIBLE gives the lady a very comfortable living . (Just saying) Go WITH GOD ONE day AT A TIME IN JEASUS NAME AMEN AND THANK YOU GOD ALMIGHTY FOR OUR SALVATION. 🙏🙏🙏😉
This is for Liz at the museum, one of my visits to museum while back..noticed cap stones from Roosevelt.but no time capsule. I got a hold of SRP, history director..they had never opened it yet, finally found it in storage.they were to put on display at pdo in tempe.forrest Ser, tore down auntie bills home,where Roosevelt stayed while at dam.i think your Museum be better home for time capsule documents.thanks TD.
4:18 The black tape was put on the Stones in the early 1960's when they were shown to the public for the first time. The owner of the Stones at that time (Travis Marlowe) did not those areas seen by the public because he was still actively looking for the treasure himself. (Look for June 12, 1964 TIME Magazine page 90-94)
Jacob waltz had a mine just south of la barge spring at the base of picacho Butte. I tied a ladder up to the mountain in a crevace there.
Thanks for sharing!
Fascinating!!!
Very intertesting
Charlie man, I think you ought to go back there and ask Liz out to dinner- that’s your treasure
Sad and Unfortunate but Charlie had passed back in November of 2019. RIP Charlie!
I agree, she seems like a sharp, together lady. Don't know if she is married or not?
@@cameronmccreary4758 I'm guessing yes. Or, given her age, perhaps widowed by now. :/
Maybe in the next life for old Charlie. She does seem able to keep right up with him.
Seems to me the stone maps would be so heavy and awkward,
yeah this is one of the first things that I pondered... why would anyone make a map this way? It's impractical for most purposes. the only thing it really has as an advantage over paper is well.... lasting a long time. That's not what you'd want most as a miner working a claim.
Also as someone pointed out to me long ago, whoever made this was probably transcribing a paper map. This style of engraving does not easily lend itself to compiling a map and the map as we see it today is pretty clean looking. It doesn't have a lot of revisions on it.
If it was fired clay that'd be different. With clay it's easy to mark out things and redraw them repeatedly. Then after you get it right you fire it to make it keep that shape. But carved stone doesn't work that way. You can't "erase" errors, you only get one shot at carving.
Which is the other thing... this was a LOT of skilled work... why would miners do that? Like I said before a STONE tablet is impractical unless you want it to last for years. Why would an active mining organization do it that way? The Peraltas were about getting rich by mining gold. Buried treasure wasn't really their thing. Sure, they'd probably hidden gold caches, but they didn't do that for long term storage. Another thing is... the Peraltas had multiple sites, and presumably multiple maps, if they even made maps. Why this one?
So my question is: do we have evidence the Peraltas ever made carved stone maps like this? That's the reason I'd see as most likely to discredit it as genuine.
I enjoy how honest these people are they don’t try to create a story when one isn’t there if they say something they mean it
why make your own story when you can just repeat history....ical accounts... of other people's stories.
soooo many stories have been told about that stuff it's impossible to be sure of anything. :/
Charlie I went back out to where the horse is located with Ralph Henderson right after the awards at Goldfield. Did you know that in the same area of the horse you can see the 1847 on a rock face just to the east. I have pictures to prove that and I think I'll go show them to my new friend at the museum. You guys have your stories mixed up. Bill Hibdon sent a group of guys up to the top of picacho Butte in search of a rock with a ❤️ and cross carved on it. That rock marked the back entrance to father Usibio Kino's cave up there. I'm one of those guys. Three of us rolled that rock over so it will never be found again. One of us ( Clay Reinholt) is no longer alive. Fact check this. Bill Hibdon was told by the Apaches where this was after he was caught in an Indian burial chamber behind Queen Valley. He found 224 1/2 lbs of gold up there after he and his partner found the heart rock.
Thats very interesting . I wish i was a young man . I'd spend some time hunting for sure .
224 1/2 pounds of gold? I think you can afford to hire some husky flunkies to help you recover your gold.
I think, people forget that still is Apache land.
I would laugh if it turned out Jacob Waltz found a group of the Peralta burros and cooked up the rest of it to throw people off.
Personally i belive thats exactly what happened, i think it was back in the 30s someone did find a burro skeleton with ore bags still tied to it, i dont belive there ever was a dutchman mine or if there was it was claimed and mined out under the mammoth or one of the others in goldfield, i mean really how many thousands of professional geologists and miners have combed those mountains not to mention the thousands that have gone out there looking over what 150 years? Its eather already mined or never really excised. The dutchman had what 40lbs of ore under his bed? How much did they load onto burroes?.... o.O
He gave a bedside confession to murdering the mexican miners and his own blood . And that body was found .
Jacob Waltz wasn't the first one mining gold in the Superstition Mountains, was he ?
There is gold in them there hills🤗🤔😀
Thank you for all your sharing, I could not have discovered the caverna aurum with out you! the dutchman is cavern aurum marked on the peralta latin stone! The stone crosses show "noto triangulum and Fornix " which is marked on the latin stone as well. and the churches treasure was placed there, but the peraltas were heading out of the mountains and heading home when they were killed, so did they empty their caches and load all their gold right then? The latin heart leads to three mines one being the silver chief but this was not jacob waltz's mine, he hit the caverna aurum, then there are two other mines located on the latin heart!
The rock horse i refure to is the one jacob drew on his map for Julia Thomas.
IF YOU COULD SEE WHERE LDM YOU COULD BELIVE THE STONES MAPS ITS THE SAME THE TOUTUGA MAP POINTS WITH THE STONES MAPS THE WITCH ROCK MTN UP WEST BOULDER WITH THE SAME YEAR ON WITCHROCK .
Hey dude why are you Yelling ?
The Peralta Stones are not available for examination.
A+
Thanks, Ron.
that's ok i know where it is
BOB WARDS BOOK HAS THE BEST AND JERRY CRADER WITH LEONARD NEMOY COMMENTATOR ALL ABOUT SUPPERSTITIONS
~this is a picture of the heart from the cave.*
the horse map says El Cogollo de sante fe. you see the a's are a's and the o's are o's. cogollo is hemp...fyi I figured that out one day while looking at it. the g is the old school style.
It says El cobollo de Sante Fe which means "the horse of Sante Fe"
This is like a Hollywood ballony sale. mystery upon mystery. its all nutzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Jesuit hoax, free-mason hoax, just like the Oak Island Money Pit...carbon dating is a hoax too
Where do you think the rock horse is.
The rock horse is the mountain itself
@@herschelgross5187 yeah heard that before too. it looks kinda like a horse from some angles.
I think there is a different way to look at the Stones
NO ONE CAN SEE WHERE THE MINES LOCATION EXCEPT FROM MALAPIE MTN AND SOME COPPER TABLETS
Recently, I understand that the family of the man that found the stone crosses claims he fabricated them.
The inscriptions with the hourse on the stone maps says spirit horse and the heart is symbolic of Catholic and the priest has nothing to do with peralta. Wouldn't it be more likely to be Jesuits?
Its also misspelled
yeah, the stone map idea is just... impractical for miners. It's sort of portable, but just barely.
I like her
a lot of unknown ,, but i think its all real,,,,the stones are for real,,,,,,
Do a lil more reserch their fakes not native stone, the guy that found them has similar carvings in his chimney and the simple spanish is misspelled
The Loch Ness Monster obviously found the stones after Bigfoot dropped them.
And the gold is gone becase it belonged to the lil people
Its amazing how she said the stone crosses were missing then later she found replicas, hmmm....me thinks someone took an artifact and replaced them with replicas.
I just find it hard to believe that thousands of people have searched over a hundred years thoroly and none of these gold mines have been found.
Folk lore and campfire stories 98% of the time.
Who knows. Maybe one day someone will find that one of them.
I wonder if any portion of the Superstitions have NOT been explored?
@@thomasrice4078 Well, if you look up the "hidden canyon" video they did, some places are ventured into so rarely they may as well not be. In that video they talk about how one of them found a campsite from the 1970s that had seemingly been undisturbed since it was abandoned by whoever made it(also the person who made it probably died). It had a skeleton of a pack animal laying there that had seemingly died tied to a tree.
You people don’t realize how rough the mountain really is. Myself and several other people I know have ventured into the mountains and found artifacts that haven’t been disturbed in hundreds of years. Most normal people wouldn’t dare explore deep into the mountain
Like
I just like to point out that yes the stones was geologic tested and no they are not from the area also there was reserch done into the person who claimed to find them, his chimney had identical carvings that he done in the sandstone that made up the chimney, even his own family back up that he himself carved the stones and also theres a picture of the stones when he found them on the bumper of his car taken when he found them, they do not match the stones in the museum, so personally i belive the entire stine maps are a hox... cool story but a hox and even the Spanish text is misspelled i would think someone in charge of recording and documenting information for the king of spain could at least spell coman Spanish
yeah, the biggest question I've seen anyone ask... why would miners make stone tablet maps? massive work, time consuming, hard to transport... Also the horse carving isn't even a map. What value would it have had to miners working mines?
There are gold mines in the superstition mountains, but the stone maps are most likely art work or a distraction from the real location. If you were going to make a map of a gold mine why would you carve it out of stone. Too much work. There is a real working gold mine on the east side of the superstition mountain called the silver king that produced a lot of gold and silver until it was shut down. where there is one gold mine there are other veins nearby. People should look at the geology look at where other gold was found and maybe they can find another rich vein somewhere.
'Why carve them out of stone?' My guess is boredom. I bet the Spanish expeditions worked the mine for months at a time. That's a lot of evenings by the fire with not much to do.
@@nathanielcohen9890 ok tthe maps are fake do a lil reserch one the stone isnt native 2 the guy that found them had similar carvings in his stone chimney, 3 puctures of the maps when found sitting on his car bumber dont match the ones in the museum 4 and yes things was cruder backbthen but i believe that someone recording information to report or keep track of the Spanish kings records could spell simple Spanish.... the words are misspelled... even the guy that found thems family was interviewed and they believe he carved them himself
@@LuckyBaldwin777 that's a stretch, why? because this map isn't random doodles. It's careful precision work, and while it's possible a miner could have that skill... this map isn't the sort of thing that'd be a product of graffiti.
@@marhawkman303 I never said they were graffiti. Not quite sure where you got that one from...
@@LuckyBaldwin777 So? You described them as carvings made out of boredom, whether you used the specific word "graffiti" or not is irrelevant.
Whoever made them did some very precise engraving and carefully planned too. that's not what you get from someone making a side art project
You cannot carbon date stones.
that horse just looks like modern artistry. I dont buy it.
Where's Hitler's gold train?
I know where the mine is.... It's no where near the superstition mountains, my Apache ancestors may have attacked the Peralta's near the superstition mountains and that's where all the evidence was dropped and rediscovered years later but truth is the mine is no where near the superstition mountains the Peralta's were just passing around those mountains with whatever they can carry but we're attacked by Apaches. The Freemasons found where the mine is located and today it's one of the largest mines in Arizona located in Globe/Miami.
Really? Any books out about this? What Masonic members?
i have read dozens of books on the LDM and I feel the Peralta Stones, Crosses and the Which stone , they are all bogus. there is a mysterious theatrical quality to all of this. its hard to figure out the real clues to the LDM story because there is so much balony now mixed in with the clues and story. Clay Worst said it best," dont let the facts get in the way of a GOOD STORY. It the Peralta Stones and related stones are genuine it could be establishes with scientific tests and styudy. I have read several credible reports that the stones are fake. Really interesting to conspiracy junkies but fake none the less.
She's being very deceptive!
Yes , AND she seems to be very good at being deceptive also . Ramroding the museum POSSIBLE gives the lady a very comfortable living . (Just saying) Go WITH GOD ONE day AT A TIME IN JEASUS NAME AMEN AND THANK YOU GOD ALMIGHTY FOR OUR SALVATION. 🙏🙏🙏😉
About the crosses, I'm thinking a Lie Detector may prove a deception somewhere may be in there.