Who's the most responsible for the Red Wedding? Subscribe: www.youtube.com/@fantasyhaven1 TIME STAMPS: 00:00 - The Real Red Wedding 00:30 - Robb Stark & Jeyne Westerling: The Causes 03:08 - Freys, Boltons, & Lannisters: The Perpetrators 06:15 - Rains of Castamere: The Massacre 09:37 - Rewards & Consequences: The Aftermath
Tywin, of course. I don’t care who planned it. I just hate villainous character being considered as a hero by the audience just because he’s a fan favorite.
I mean I can’t imagine Jamie ever found out about Roose saying that but it’s kind of sad to me remembering Jamie saying that thinking he was actually trying to keep his word to Catelyn and feeling good about it lol, he does later try to not take up arms against house Tully in the siege of riverrun
@@jr1jr2jr3 As much as I like Jaime and his redemption arc, I think he did take up arms against Riverrun. He brought an army, threatened total annihilation and killed the Blackfish doing it, installing his own lame Tully lord who is easy to bend. House Tully is in ruin after his leave
One of my favorite details about the lead up to the red wedding is when Robb’s entourage first arrives at the crossing and meets Walder Robb asks for bread and wine to initiate guest right. Walder responds with “Mayhaps” and gives it to them. If you remember the first book two of Walder’s grandchildren are sent to Winterfell to be fostered and they play a game with the stark children called Lord of the Crossing in which When another player approaches, the lord of the crossing must say "I am the lord of the crossing, who goes there?" The player who approaches must then present his reasons for crossing the bridge and why he should be allowed to cross. The lord asks the player questions and makes them swear oaths. The player does not have to respond truthfully to the questions but the oaths are binding unless the player says "Mayhaps" quickly enough that the lord does not notice.
Another one: When Robb's entourage arrive outside the Twins, Ser Ryman Frey greets them, saying "If you would follow me, my father awaits,". On the surface, it seems like he's referring to Walder Frey, but Ser Ryman Frey's father is Stevron Frey, who is dead.
@@blaubeer8039 Maybe, but I think there's enough evidence to suggest this was intentional. The Red Wedding was the most carefully written chapter in the series.
It's really sad that we never got the heroics of Rob's protectors transposed to the TV series... Dacey Mormont boding a Frey or the SmallJon sacrificing himself to protect Rob were true example of how much honor is valued in the North! They all died trying their best to protect their king like they were supposed to do.
Yeah one thing I never got from the show was the true weight of what losing winterfell means to north they get angry when it happens want then dead and that's pretty much it they move on like it never happened, except for catelyn but she was more concerned with brann and rickon
Yeah I really like the imagery of Robb being surrounded by his entourage of young nobles including Dacey Mormont which mirrors Ned's party who went to the Tower of Joy. Seeing them all hang out in the show would've been cool
Those guys should inherit the Twins one day! _Though chances are, they're gonna get killed by Lady Stoneheart or Wyman Manderly._ 😔 Sins of the family, much.
Theres so many little things you can notice in the book that seem strange until you realise whats going on: Rosalind crying, walder’s mayhaps, the northmen being made to cross the river so they cant flee back to a fort, greywind being moved away, catelyn and robb being made to stay in the way castle
In the book we have not gotten the house words for house Frey as of yet with the exception of the tv shows version "We Stand Together" as being the house supposed words. IMO the words of house Frey should instead be *"Short Term Gain, Long Term Pain"* . Cause it perfectly encapsulates the situation of house Frey right about now.
Same with the Lannisters because this wedding only guarantees endless conflict between the north and Lannisters. Nobody likes the Boltons and the only reason they're on power is through treacherous means, something that's bound to end one day. And nobody will forget that it was ultimately the Lannisters that made the red wedding happen. At least from the Tywins words in the show, doing this to 'end the war' and 'protect the family' only endangers his family in the future after he's gone
To be fair tywin has no reason to believe that the sharks excluding Sansa, are still alive (well there's John) he can not be reasonably supposed to predict things like all the magical stuff etc that save them or a freaking faceless man
I really hope Roose Bolton becomes more fleshed out in the next book. He seems very patient and it’s said he knows a lot about what’s going on “behind his back” in the north. He lets these things happen and watches because as Barbery Dustin puts it: “This is a game to him. Mildly diverting. Some men hunt, some hawk, some tumble dice. Roose plays with men.” I reeeeeeally hope he’s got some secret plan against Stannis and the other traitors. Just seems like a cool creepy villain that’s getting a fair amount of build up for something. Be a shame if he just died for nothing.
@@JohnSmith-im8qt you mean where he’s trying to create an outcome which doesn’t cause his fans to rise up against him? He is trying to remedy Season 8 while still continuing his story.
Petyr Baelish becoming Lord Paramount of the Riverlands is also consequential, considering his plans for the North and the Vale (marrying Sansa and Harry the Heir, hoping to reclaim Sansa's birthright of the North), he'd effectively have control of Three of the Eight/Seven Kingdoms (or so he believes). If he can somehow rope the Stormlands, he's got the exact same alliance that deposed the Targaryens (I don't think it'll happen, just happy coincidence). Honestly, one has to wonder if this was all part of his scheme, or just happy chaos-ladder happenstance.
Why dont he just marry her himself? Hes lord paramount of the Riverlands, regent of the Vale. Drugging Sweetrobyn(who seemingly trusts Petyr), putting Harry as lord and marrying Sansa to him is just so much work for reward Petyr already has
@@Gray_ninja1) Officially, he's in mourning for Lysa. He had an effective scapegoat for Lysa's murder at the time, but if he took another wife so soon it would have people questioning whether he might have actually had a hand in his wife's death, especially considering how much power he consolidated unto himself as a result. 2) Sansa is in hiding and posing as Littlefinger's bastard. He's had to negotiate his way into cajoling Lady Waynwood into agreeing to marry her ward off to a bastard. And by marrying Sansa/Alayne to Harry, he's joining the rightful heirs to the North and the Vale which, combined with his overlordship of the riverlands, makes him arguably the single-most powerful person in the Seven Kingdoms. Littlefinger's regency of the Vale only lasts as long as Sweetrobin's minority, and all signs point to the former planning the latter going the way of Joffrey. By preempting Harry's marriage, he's preventing another party such as the Lords Declarant from forming a marriage alliance with him and undermining Littlefinger's influence, which he'll wield through Sansa/Alayne. So poisoning Sweetrobin and forging the Sansa/Harry marriage is more work, but it's more stable.
One thing to consider, which would make the whole "alliance that overthrew the Targs" ironic - assuming Littlefinger is anywhere near as well-informed in the books as he was in the show, what if Littlefinger is forging the new North-Riverlands-Vale bloc in preparation for the Targaryen return? Specifically, what if the stormlords flock to Young Griff's banner after he takes Storm's End? Rumors say Tommen's a bastard and Stannis fled north after his defeat at the Blackwater, so there's effectively no more Baratheons in control of the region, and those Lannister and Tyrell pricks killed a bunch of their friends and family at the Blackwater. And what's this? An alliance of three kingdoms - one with an army untouched by the recent war, and the other two holding serious grudges against the Lannisters? Could the same kingdoms that united to overthrow the Targaryens become the very ones who restore them to power?
@@fantasyhaven1 Too bad his thoughts about it are never discussed. But he contemplated giving Harrenhal to Walder Frey or Cersei Lannister. He most likely hated it just because Catelyn died there. And also because Tywin proved his political acumen once again.
Ultimately, there is no war without twincest, so it's actually on Jaime and Cersei. Wait, ultimately there's no Jaime and Cersei without Tywin, so it IS actually on him.
Little finger couldn’t have orchestrated the war without Catelyn telling him everything, thus revealing that she actually did it as part of a long-term scheme to kill Azor Ahai, commonly known as Jinglebell
Even tho You're supposed to hate the lannister for this horrible wedding you got to admit This was an amazing way of making allies and Getting rid of most of your enemies in one night
Two things: Hearing that George went into a borderline depressive state after writing the red wedding is... idek. It was the last chapter he wrote before starting on Dance (later Feast and Dance). Second, Jayne Westerling is still alive, and could be pregnant. If she has a son, it would likely spark a great chain of events. The Jon camp in the neck, the Rickon camp in Winterfell, and the Sansa Camp in the Vale would then have a universal symbol for the north. But there are so many moving parts to this. The North alone not counting the wall or beyond the wall has well over a dozen plots and events happening all at once
I'd argue tywin is to blame the most He made the betrayal happen As tyrion says "walder frey is many thing but a brave man he is not he wouldn't have pulled such a stunt without certain assurances *probably paraphrasing*"
Definitely Lothar, dude planned it all out meticulously. The rest helped carry it all out. Its cool seeing alot of Frey videos recently, you don't get that too often. A banger as always too!
I don’t see any other satisfying end to houses Frey and Bolton other than violent retribution by the brotherhood without banners and the lesser lords of the north led by Stannis respectively.
Another top notch vidya. Robb's Will, a result of the Red Wedding, can/will also have very "interesting" implications going forward, if only to see how much it is honored at all. "Westerosi News" needs to be a thing. You should make it a thing. Nothing but gossip, salacious headlines and two-bit propaganda, just like IRL. Could be very spicy, indeed. Keep up the great work! \m/
The line "Some wars are won by swords, others with words" was GENIUS! Tywin admitting he was behind it all with a casual vague reference was SO good, huge missed opportunity by not showcasing that
For as brilliant as people in-verse think of Tywin...how the hell does/did he think any of this will work out well? You can't rule the North with just three strong houses (Bolton, Karstark & Manderly) and expect everything to go smoothly. Especially not if one of these Houses is split up in loyalty and the other is being pressured into this. The hubris of Tywin, Walder (Walder Prime) and Roose is unbelievable. This doesn't even account for the Riverlands, which is just being fractured further and further, with all these big houses losing their ancestral seats and being replaced by Freys
Thats the point Tywin is nowhere near as smart as he or anyone else thinks he is, its kinda a dichotomy between what we hear and what we see. Since his only real claim to power was he had a boot on everyones necks and now that he's dead people are watching with glee to see the Lanistar family tear itself apart. Whereas with the Straks death only made their followers even more loyal and rebellious. It just goes to show being feared isnt the same as having loyality
@@Somethingclever11111 The irony is that Tywin didn't face the consequences of his warmongering outside, he faced the consequences of the treatment of his family with the end being Tyrion who is on the potential precipice of becoming a worse monster. I'd wager to say Tywin always manages to be one step ahead of others except his own blood lol
Tywin is not as smart as he thinks he is. He only puts up an act that he’s smart and ruthless because he’s very insecure about himself and his family legacy.
Honestly, I totally understand why George was so salty that A Storm of Swords lost the 2001 Hugo to Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. Nothing against Goblet of Fire, it is one of the best books in the Potter series. But, and, well, let's be honest. Storm of Swords as a book was better. Goblet of Fire won because the series was a global phenomenon.
An other reason for Frey anger imo is the murder of one of theirs, one of the sons of Genna Lannister, just for the fact lord Karstark killed the Frey boy, I understand why death was chosen over just hostage. Although it would have been nice if Robb had used that to explain it. 4:30 fun fact, Roslin Frey is his full sister, the fact then all the children from this wife were decent is interesting.
This event needs to be looked in the big picture of Westeros events. Possibly, and I really do believe that House Stark was dealt a crippling blow when Robb was declared King in the North. Had he followed the correct course and bent the knee to Stannis a proper alliance would have been formed. The Battle of the Blackwater was really when the Starks began to lose the North and Riverlands. Then the Lannisters could concentrate all their attention the Starks.
And guess what would have happened? Roose Bolton still with a betrayed him. This guy just got his ass beat at the Battle of the blackwater and we just said that we want you as our king of independent North. So exactly why the hell are you fighting a losing battle?
Tbh the plot had to be written in such a way that the Lannisters don't immediately lose so things that don't make a ton of sense under scrutiny happen.
This is the epitome of short term goals and long term losses. Tywin gets rid of Rob (who was already kinda losing) and in exchange he has to houses take over the North and Riverlands who have an incredibly tenuous hold on the land and a zombie hell bent on ending his line and the Freys
I think my favorite aspect of the sample chapters released so far, aside from the entirety of the forsaken. Theon’s mention that Crowsfood Umber has the green boys and Whoresbane Umber has the old men. It implies coordination between them, also the idea that the old men of the north commit themselves to suicidal action when winter comes is great potential foreshadowing of the Umbers inside winterfell doing something suicidal to hamper Roose
A different view I have is that the red wedding was the worst decision Twin made. How is that, he won the war? He may have technically won the war but basically lost the north and riverlands for decades if not more. There’s an insurrection against the Frey’s in the riverlands not long after the massacre and the Boltons only barely hold the north with Frey support. Cause if not the other northern houses have about on par soldier count as the Boltons and their bannermen. Twin just did I guess you call what the US was dealing with in Afghanistan but worse. Twin put a target on his back for the rest of his life that eventually someone would’ve made a shot to assassinate him. He may have won in the short term, but even if he lived he would’ve lost.
Ryman killed Catelyn because its ordered, when Catleyn saw her son killed, she start rip her face of, people around her start to talk about she is became mad, then unknown voice(probably Lord Walder Frey or Roose Bolton) ordered ''end this mess''
Excuse me it's been a year or so and this lonely viewer who's never known the touch of a maiden is still waiting for the advertised priestess-on-priestess oil wrestling segment
Not all that glitters is gold! It feels like every Lannister deal has been empty of value for every person that’s taken one. Tywin only allows himself to benefit, Cersei didn’t give Robert heirs. Jaime didn’t return the girls to Catelyn. Tyrion didn’t help Dany. 😭
This is a good example on how the title can seem misleading but still work 😅. I actually thought this was going to be about the real life inspiration of this event. Instead, its a wonderful, in depth, and very creative form of entertaining way of retelling what happened in the book. 😊 I was mislead...sort of...but not disappointed lol.
I wonder how Big Walder Frey is going to be the lord of the crossing in the end?! Will he marry his cousin the heir apparent Roslyn Frey or will he be the last man standing assuming he survives the battle of ice in the north
Re-reading ASOIAF books and I found out that the show missed so many points regarding to the aftermath of the red wedding. 1. Northmen's loyalty to the Starks. See? In the books, the remaining Northmen are doing a grand conspiracy to take down the Boltons and Freys because they are super mad for losing their king and families in the red wedding (there is still a questionable figure like Barbrey Ryswell, who kinda hates the Starks but still hates the Boltons nonetheless, or Arnolf Karstark, who sided with Roose) However, this never happened in the show. The "honorable", "loyal" and 'brave" Northmen were so comfortable at helping the Boltons terrorize people. All the Northmen (except for Ellie from the Last of Us, of course) all sided with Boltons to the point that Robett Glover even insulted Robb for being stupid and "led Northmen to die" or the Umbers were fully on board with Ramsay by giving Rickon to be Ramsay's hostage even though they are split into two factions in the books. The Northmen in the show give zero f*ck about honor. To make it worse, once Jon became king and Robett Glover pledged allegiance to him, Glover somehow suggested Sansa to usurp the throne from Jon afterwards. The Northmen in the show are even more disloyal and prone to betray each other more so than the Lannisters. 2. Tywin "the Great" and Starks "the fool" I think the reason the audience love Tywin so much are mainly from Charles Dance's fantastic performance and a scene that never happened in the books. That scene he had with Arya. So, in the books, that scene was supposed to be the precursor of the red wedding about how Arya found out that Roose Bolton might plan to betray Robb in some kind but the show turned it into a heartwarming scene between Arya and the kind grandpa Tywin who adored Arya's intelligence in contrast to Cersei's stupidity...except that people kinda forgot that Tywin didn't know Arya's true identity. That's why he could be playful with her and don't forget that he murdered half of Arya's family afterward in this red wedding so I don't understand why the audience keeps mentioning this scene as something adorable. Imagine Anne Frank met with Hitler one time and Hitler was quite fond of her (because he didn't know she's a Jew) then proceed to mass murder Anne Frank's family afterward, will anyone still consider their "relationship" adorable? Also, Tywin was such a "great man", a "good leader" and a "king without crown", right? Well, the context that people love to overlook is that, when the quote "Lord Tywin wore no crown, yet he was all a king should be." was spoken, it was from Pycelle to Jaime Lannister. Pycelle, a spineless sycophant, a complete pushover will of course say everything good about Tywin to Tywin's favorite son to gain Jaime's favor and Jaime knows that. He hates Pycelle's guts. And when Tywin was regarded as brave and was willing to do anything for his family, that was said by Genna (Tywin's sister) to, you guess it, Jaime again. So these two scenarios who talked positively about Tywin are a person who want to gain a favor from Jaime and a person who benefited from Tywin in the past. About Starks the fool, the show interpret it as an objective reality and went overboard with victim blaming Ned, Robb, Cat, Talisa and Rickon. Yeah, I get it, these are good people and good people can't survive in a world run by scumbags but the tricky part in the books are - The reason the Starks are so demonized in the books after the red wedding because people are so afraid to pledge loyalty to the Starks thanks to the combined force of Lannisters, Freys and Boltons. These are brutal dictators. I mean, nobody in the right mind would openly admit that they love Jews or they are gays when the Nazis were at the height of power, right? That's why Wyman Manderly had to pretend to kill fake Davos to show "loyalty" to the Lannisters while scheming with Davos and sending him to get Rickon in Skagos in secret. - Another reason that the Starks are demonized in the books is because we spent an entire chapter with Merrett Frey. We saw things from Frey's perspective so of course there will be rationalization and victim blaming in his part. D&D really missed the point about the North's cultural identity in the show (still better than Cersei bombing the entire vatican and receiving ZERO consequences for her actions. Worldbuilding is such an alien concept for D&D) and made people who are supposed to be loyal to the Starks hate the Starks for no reason to raise the stakes that doesn't make sense. It's like when one hero has to fight 10 additional villains for the sake of being exciting which ended up forcing the story to give that hero a crazy amount of plot armor to win the battle (look at Jon in Battle of Bastards, the arrows were all miss, no hit against him, or Arya who somehow survived getting stabbed and jumping into shitwater).
The brotherhood without banners never made sense to me in the show like ned sends them out to capture the mountain and than when ned dies they just decide to become bandits like wtf
They were sent out in King Robert's name, flying King Robert's banners. But King Robert died and they vowed to fight in his name to defend King Robert's smallfolk against Lannister raiders, and later on Northern raiders. They fly no banners because their numbers are made up out of former Lannister men, former Stark men, former Tully men and so on. What banner would they even fly to herald their cause?
@@DominionSorcerer ok but why where the lanestetrs raiding the small folk shouldn’t they have had the better supply lines and deeper pockets why would they need to do that
@@jonathanhirst5062 to punish them? It's a reaction to Catelyn Tully kidnapping Tyrion, and as the reaction Tywin sent Gregor Clegane and some more men to raid the Riverlands while wearing no identifying marks or banners.
I knew the TV show ended when there was no Lady Stoneheart. She is a literal vengeful spirit so far gone that she is hanging Brienne of Tarth in the last book, that shit is too dark for the TV.
I have an idea for a video You know about the theory that aenys and maegor are not aegon's sons but it doesn't matter for "prophetic reasons" bc they are still his blood (by his systers) So i haven't seen anybody talk about the female blood line of the targaryen dynasty even so and analysis should be really interesting.
Robb was still fucked, him not telling edmure about his plan and letting the stone mill happen is what lost him the war. When the tyrells and lannisters became united is when robb stopped standing a chance. The red wedding just made it happen faster.
I always wondered about Raynald Westerling and what has happened to him. On one side he was just a minor character that only released Greywind but then again why leave his fate ambigious? Maybe he's the real Azor Ahai?
House Reed caused the massacre of the Red Wedding. They always defied the Freys and their superiority when all the Freys wanted was to introduce advanced technologies and ways of life (Westeros wise) to this savage frog eaters; creating enmity betwen the two peoples. I bet when Walder Frey heard the whole North followed Robb that included the Reeds which of Course started their relationship badly. Later House Reed did not send any Men to fight for Robb, we are told they move through marshes and wetlands as the fearsome Crocodiles their sigil bears, they sound like Great scouts for the riverlands, and could be used to devastating effect by someone like the Blackfish. Yet they remain Hidden in their bogs and mud huts. Walder wanted the marriage of one of his girls with Robb Because then, finally someone of Frey blood could rule rightfully over the Crannogmen and civilize them. But no, Robb failed to hold his end of the deal. And with no other option the late Walder betrayed him. But imagine if the Crannogmen had been at the wedding their numbers could have turned the tide. But they did not, their sigil might be a cool af Crocodile, but their actions are more deserving of an ugly toad. Shame on you House Reed.
It is specified in the first books that Robb wants the Crannogmen in the Neck to stop, delay and harass any invading force that may try to attack the North. Indeed, when the Ironmen takes Moat Cailin, they make it hell for them to hold it, killing every scout, raiding or foraging party that try to exit the ruined stronghold with poisonous darts and arrows, and Robb wants their help in attacking and taking the Moat back.
"Those who pause or slow the video the read the text have likely never laid with a maiden" hey go to the seven hells I thought you would have appreciated my attention 😭
i love how grrm tried for so long to make the pronunciation of alle the places and names less modern english like while in german the books really go full in changing stuff to make it sound like "german medieval" and i just hate it haha
@@fantasyhaven1mayhaps its just because german is my native tounge but quite obvious is greyjoy, it wouldnt fit in a german medieval world so it became Graufreud and "freud" instead of "freude" (joy), which is common in older names and places mance rayder on the other hand just became Manke Rayder (not like "man" but ma more like in "marble"), Maaan-Ke which ofcouse sounds way more german but I cant take that serious haha shaggydog became - i cant stress that out enough - STRUPPEL which just sounds like a clischee dog name like porky or the german horror children story Struwwelpeter lmao Kings Landing is Königsmund which doestn sound es epic imho but there is no "landing" in german that really fits a city name and "mund" means mouth but in this case "mund" describes the coastal situation (something something opening), not the actually soil on which KL is built on and the idea of aegon landing there gets a bit lost House Yronwood became Isenwald which really just sounds like a rip off isengard for i see no connection between "Yron" and "Isen"
@@fantasyhaven1 i guess the main reason why i cant really get into the german version is also bc I'm kinda more "accepting" towards like Jon Snow while Jon Schnee (literally german for snow) just sounds weird to me I always wondered if native english speaker feel the same about english names (and like every single english song) haha
@@fantasyhaven1 got something controversial that you might consider covering .. do you agree with the castings of House Velaryon? Or are they race swapped to check boxes? It's one of the very few gripes I have with the show tbh.
I think it's a good way to visually distinguish the Velaryons from the Targaryens for casual audiences, and the aesthetic is cool, although yeah I imagine it was mostly motivated by HBO quotas (and the explanation by Ryan Condal was a big PR misstep)
daenerys house of the undying vision "A feast of slaughtered corpses holding cups, spoons, and food, with a dead man with a wolf's head sitting on a throne wearing an iron crown"
Facing an opponent that is capable and willing to do absolutely anything and everything, with no regards towards human lives won't only have a huge advantage but also most definetely always win. The north refused to "sink down to their level" while tywin had a "the end justify the means" mentallity. Would you rather risk loosing and forfeit your life and those of your comrades but knowing that whatever you did was at least honorable or do whatever to win and increase your chances considerably, if you're losing the end result for you will be the same either way. Taking the high road isn't always the best option, going with a logical and pragmatic approach it definetely isn't. You have nothing to win, only lose. Might as well try to win with whatever you have at your disposal.
It somehow feels awful to think about what they did to Robb, it actually makes me feel ill, even tough is all fiction. Taking off his head and sewing grey wind's on his body was the worst thing of all that happened in the red wedding. Ned and Cat's boy... desecrated like that, fuck off
Who's the most responsible for the Red Wedding?
Subscribe: www.youtube.com/@fantasyhaven1
TIME STAMPS:
00:00 - The Real Red Wedding
00:30 - Robb Stark & Jeyne Westerling: The Causes
03:08 - Freys, Boltons, & Lannisters: The Perpetrators
06:15 - Rains of Castamere: The Massacre
09:37 - Rewards & Consequences: The Aftermath
Lord Walder himself
Tywin, of course. I don’t care who planned it. I just hate villainous character being considered as a hero by the audience just because he’s a fan favorite.
Roose really took a genuine greeting from Jaime to Robb and turned it into one of the most vicious lines ever
Roose might have the most sick (and underrated) sense of humour in asoiaf
I mean I can’t imagine Jamie ever found out about Roose saying that but it’s kind of sad to me remembering Jamie saying that thinking he was actually trying to keep his word to Catelyn and feeling good about it lol, he does later try to not take up arms against house Tully in the siege of riverrun
@@jr1jr2jr3he might be told by Lady Stonehart when (or if?) Brienne brings him to the Britherhood
@@jr1jr2jr3 As much as I like Jaime and his redemption arc, I think he did take up arms against Riverrun. He brought an army, threatened total annihilation and killed the Blackfish doing it, installing his own lame Tully lord who is easy to bend. House Tully is in ruin after his leave
only in the show.@@karrawr9538
One of my favorite details about the lead up to the red wedding is when Robb’s entourage first arrives at the crossing and meets Walder Robb asks for bread and wine to initiate guest right.
Walder responds with “Mayhaps” and gives it to them.
If you remember the first book two of Walder’s grandchildren are sent to Winterfell to be fostered and they play a game with the stark children called Lord of the Crossing in which When another player approaches, the lord of the crossing must say "I am the lord of the crossing, who goes there?" The player who approaches must then present his reasons for crossing the bridge and why he should be allowed to cross. The lord asks the player questions and makes them swear oaths. The player does not have to respond truthfully to the questions but the oaths are binding unless the player says "Mayhaps" quickly enough that the lord does not notice.
Another one: When Robb's entourage arrive outside the Twins, Ser Ryman Frey greets them, saying "If you would follow me, my father awaits,". On the surface, it seems like he's referring to Walder Frey, but Ser Ryman Frey's father is Stevron Frey, who is dead.
@@blaubeer8039 Maybe, but I think there's enough evidence to suggest this was intentional. The Red Wedding was the most carefully written chapter in the series.
It's really sad that we never got the heroics of Rob's protectors transposed to the TV series... Dacey Mormont boding a Frey or the SmallJon sacrificing himself to protect Rob were true example of how much honor is valued in the North! They all died trying their best to protect their king like they were supposed to do.
Yeah one thing I never got from the show was the true weight of what losing winterfell means to north they get angry when it happens want then dead and that's pretty much it they move on like it never happened, except for catelyn but she was more concerned with brann and rickon
To make things worse, show turned SmallJon into generic goon and traitor.
Yeah I really like the imagery of Robb being surrounded by his entourage of young nobles including Dacey Mormont which mirrors Ned's party who went to the Tower of Joy. Seeing them all hang out in the show would've been cool
@@whyareyoureadingmynickname8158 Yeah not gonna lie seeing smalljon as a BOLTON supporter of all things hurt my soul.
There weren't enough Robb scenes involving other Northern lords and friends, it made the Red Wedding a little bit empty
Gotta love the irony of certain Frey's being Stark loyalists and not even being trusted by other Freys lol
Those guys should inherit the Twins one day! _Though chances are, they're gonna get killed by Lady Stoneheart or Wyman Manderly._ 😔 Sins of the family, much.
no one grinds harder than tywin is a pretty accurate character summary and the best joke I've seen about GOT in recent memory
Theres so many little things you can notice in the book that seem strange until you realise whats going on:
Rosalind crying, walder’s mayhaps, the northmen being made to cross the river so they cant flee back to a fort, greywind being moved away, catelyn and robb being made to stay in the way castle
Also Greywind sensing the Freys' evil intentions and being pretty hostile to them in the beggining.
Don't forget that catelyn immediately notices how bad the musicians are
@@jdelfresco1634 even the food sucks. It's really cheap, bland stuff. But they go all out on the ale and wine...
It seemed like an great victory, but not in the long term. The Freys lost more family members after the Red Wedding then they did before or during.
I mean it’s not like there’s a shortage
Short term success, long term catastrophe
I mean, to the Lannister was a master move, to the Freys it was Just unnecesary risk
Ryman probably wanted to happen to empty out the twins a little ☠️
Frey pies :)
Only real tragedy here is the death of the Stallion who Mounts the World, Aegon "Jinglebell" Frey :(
Don't worry, Lady Stoneheart will revive him in Winds
In the book we have not gotten the house words for house Frey as of yet with the exception of the tv shows version "We Stand Together" as being the house supposed words.
IMO the words of house Frey should instead be *"Short Term Gain, Long Term Pain"* . Cause it perfectly encapsulates the situation of house Frey right about now.
Well said
Same with the Lannisters because this wedding only guarantees endless conflict between the north and Lannisters. Nobody likes the Boltons and the only reason they're on power is through treacherous means, something that's bound to end one day. And nobody will forget that it was ultimately the Lannisters that made the red wedding happen.
At least from the Tywins words in the show, doing this to 'end the war' and 'protect the family' only endangers his family in the future after he's gone
To be fair tywin has no reason to believe that the sharks excluding Sansa, are still alive (well there's John) he can not be reasonably supposed to predict things like all the magical stuff etc that save them or a freaking faceless man
I really hope Roose Bolton becomes more fleshed out in the next book. He seems very patient and it’s said he knows a lot about what’s going on “behind his back” in the north. He lets these things happen and watches because as Barbery Dustin puts it: “This is a game to him. Mildly diverting. Some men hunt, some hawk, some tumble dice. Roose plays with men.”
I reeeeeeally hope he’s got some secret plan against Stannis and the other traitors. Just seems like a cool creepy villain that’s getting a fair amount of build up for something. Be a shame if he just died for nothing.
Yeah, I hope Ramsay doesn't just suddenly kill him
@@fantasyhaven1 “The son is just the shadow of the father.”
His reaction to Barbary 'she parts her lips in a thin wolfish smile' suggests he does not. And he just sent the Frays out to die.
@@fantasyhaven1 He’s more likely to be killed by the Blackfish. I mean, the Blackfish went missing for a reason.
The real mastermind was George R.R. Martin.
And the friends he made along the way
That's.. technically true...
@@user-op6kt8pg9y Elio Garcia ?
Lol are you sure? He doesn't even know what happens next in his own story!
@@JohnSmith-im8qt you mean where he’s trying to create an outcome which doesn’t cause his fans to rise up against him? He is trying to remedy Season 8 while still continuing his story.
We all know Robb turned into a direwolf and had to be put down by the pious Lord Frey
I too watch Riverlands Today
Petyr Baelish becoming Lord Paramount of the Riverlands is also consequential, considering his plans for the North and the Vale (marrying Sansa and Harry the Heir, hoping to reclaim Sansa's birthright of the North), he'd effectively have control of Three of the Eight/Seven Kingdoms (or so he believes). If he can somehow rope the Stormlands, he's got the exact same alliance that deposed the Targaryens (I don't think it'll happen, just happy coincidence).
Honestly, one has to wonder if this was all part of his scheme, or just happy chaos-ladder happenstance.
You should check out my collab on Quinn the GM's channel - I talk about Littlefinger and a potential Vale invasion of the Riverlands
Why dont he just marry her himself? Hes lord paramount of the Riverlands, regent of the Vale. Drugging Sweetrobyn(who seemingly trusts Petyr), putting Harry as lord and marrying Sansa to him is just so much work for reward Petyr already has
@@Gray_ninja1) Officially, he's in mourning for Lysa. He had an effective scapegoat for Lysa's murder at the time, but if he took another wife so soon it would have people questioning whether he might have actually had a hand in his wife's death, especially considering how much power he consolidated unto himself as a result.
2) Sansa is in hiding and posing as Littlefinger's bastard. He's had to negotiate his way into cajoling Lady Waynwood into agreeing to marry her ward off to a bastard. And by marrying Sansa/Alayne to Harry, he's joining the rightful heirs to the North and the Vale which, combined with his overlordship of the riverlands, makes him arguably the single-most powerful person in the Seven Kingdoms.
Littlefinger's regency of the Vale only lasts as long as Sweetrobin's minority, and all signs point to the former planning the latter going the way of Joffrey. By preempting Harry's marriage, he's preventing another party such as the Lords Declarant from forming a marriage alliance with him and undermining Littlefinger's influence, which he'll wield through Sansa/Alayne. So poisoning Sweetrobin and forging the Sansa/Harry marriage is more work, but it's more stable.
One thing to consider, which would make the whole "alliance that overthrew the Targs" ironic - assuming Littlefinger is anywhere near as well-informed in the books as he was in the show, what if Littlefinger is forging the new North-Riverlands-Vale bloc in preparation for the Targaryen return? Specifically, what if the stormlords flock to Young Griff's banner after he takes Storm's End? Rumors say Tommen's a bastard and Stannis fled north after his defeat at the Blackwater, so there's effectively no more Baratheons in control of the region, and those Lannister and Tyrell pricks killed a bunch of their friends and family at the Blackwater.
And what's this? An alliance of three kingdoms - one with an army untouched by the recent war, and the other two holding serious grudges against the Lannisters? Could the same kingdoms that united to overthrow the Targaryens become the very ones who restore them to power?
Ultimately, there is no Red Wedding without a war; so Littlefinger is the ultimate responsible for the Red Wedding !
This makes me wonder what Littlefinger thought about the Red Wedding
@@fantasyhaven1 Too bad his thoughts about it are never discussed. But he contemplated giving Harrenhal to Walder Frey or Cersei Lannister. He most likely hated it just because Catelyn died there. And also because Tywin proved his political acumen once again.
You guys give Littlefinger too much credit sometimes.
Ultimately, there is no war without twincest, so it's actually on Jaime and Cersei.
Wait, ultimately there's no Jaime and Cersei without Tywin, so it IS actually on him.
Little finger couldn’t have orchestrated the war without Catelyn telling him everything, thus revealing that she actually did it as part of a long-term scheme to kill Azor Ahai, commonly known as Jinglebell
My brain can’t decide if the noses are mouths or noses
They're whatever you want them to be
Even in a wedding the Freys couldn't go out a battle against the northmen without casualties
I love the fact that Sandor probably killed like three of them just going in and back out lol. An average evening for the Hound.
Even tho You're supposed to hate the lannister for this horrible wedding you got to admit This was an amazing way of making allies and Getting rid of most of your enemies in one night
Nah the north remembers
Short term? Yeah, it wiped out half the rebels and took the other half hostage. Long term? Not so much... 👀
Sometimes i ask myself what would the lannisters do without tywin
@@fantasyhaven1 There was no love lost between Lannisters and the northerners. What would be the negative consequences long-term?
@@josebenardi1554 Without him, the Lannister’s would’ve lost everything to House Reyne.
Two things:
Hearing that George went into a borderline depressive state after writing the red wedding is... idek. It was the last chapter he wrote before starting on Dance (later Feast and Dance).
Second, Jayne Westerling is still alive, and could be pregnant. If she has a son, it would likely spark a great chain of events. The Jon camp in the neck, the Rickon camp in Winterfell, and the Sansa Camp in the Vale would then have a universal symbol for the north.
But there are so many moving parts to this. The North alone not counting the wall or beyond the wall has well over a dozen plots and events happening all at once
She's not pregnant. Her nasty mother made sure of that.
If Moat Cailin is Moat Cailaihn according to GRRM the the Twins are The Twains and Harrenhal is ruled by Petaehr Baelish
OH PET IRE
@@fantasyhaven1 Pet IRA. Now imagine dog im a skiing mask carbombing in Belfast
"The Twains" is now my new head canon. Hence the origin of the Old Westerosi expression: "Never, at The Twains, shall we meet".
And the Dothraki are the Dothrakhai
Thank you George
I'd argue tywin is to blame the most
He made the betrayal happen
As tyrion says "walder frey is many thing but a brave man he is not he wouldn't have pulled such a stunt without certain assurances *probably paraphrasing*"
The whole video was great but Roose in the news section was hilarious
Thanks Kevin! Recently found your content, love your channel
Definitely Lothar, dude planned it all out meticulously. The rest helped carry it all out. Its cool seeing alot of Frey videos recently, you don't get that too often.
A banger as always too!
I've got one more *big* Frey video to send them off...
@@fantasyhaven1 Stoked to see what they're sendoff is!
I don’t see any other satisfying end to houses Frey and Bolton other than violent retribution by the brotherhood without banners and the lesser lords of the north led by Stannis respectively.
Actions have consequences
@@fantasyhaven1 ua-cam.com/video/OVrO0uAiPPg/v-deo.html
A Lannister always pays his de- wait
Another top notch vidya. Robb's Will, a result of the Red Wedding, can/will also have very "interesting" implications going forward, if only to see how much it is honored at all.
"Westerosi News" needs to be a thing. You should make it a thing. Nothing but gossip, salacious headlines and two-bit propaganda, just like IRL. Could be very spicy, indeed.
Keep up the great work! \m/
Thanks Karl! Yeah, I'm very curious about the will as well 👀
The real mastermind is historians, George just a fellower that carried it off
These videos are high-quality and very appreciated! Thank you for making them!
The line "Some wars are won by swords, others with words" was GENIUS! Tywin admitting he was behind it all with a casual vague reference was SO good, huge missed opportunity by not showcasing that
He also admits he got bested on the battlefield
For as brilliant as people in-verse think of Tywin...how the hell does/did he think any of this will work out well?
You can't rule the North with just three strong houses (Bolton, Karstark & Manderly) and expect everything to go smoothly. Especially not if one of these Houses is split up in loyalty and the other is being pressured into this. The hubris of Tywin, Walder (Walder Prime) and Roose is unbelievable.
This doesn't even account for the Riverlands, which is just being fractured further and further, with all these big houses losing their ancestral seats and being replaced by Freys
Hubris sums it up perfectly
Thats the point Tywin is nowhere near as smart as he or anyone else thinks he is, its kinda a dichotomy between what we hear and what we see. Since his only real claim to power was he had a boot on everyones necks and now that he's dead people are watching with glee to see the Lanistar family tear itself apart. Whereas with the Straks death only made their followers even more loyal and rebellious. It just goes to show being feared isnt the same as having loyality
@@Somethingclever11111 The irony is that Tywin didn't face the consequences of his warmongering outside, he faced the consequences of the treatment of his family with the end being Tyrion who is on the potential precipice of becoming a worse monster. I'd wager to say Tywin always manages to be one step ahead of others except his own blood lol
@@SerAenysFrey It's an honour to have Ser Aenys himself in my comments
Tywin is not as smart as he thinks he is. He only puts up an act that he’s smart and ruthless because he’s very insecure about himself and his family legacy.
Honestly, I totally understand why George was so salty that A Storm of Swords lost the 2001 Hugo to Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. Nothing against Goblet of Fire, it is one of the best books in the Potter series. But, and, well, let's be honest. Storm of Swords as a book was better. Goblet of Fire won because the series was a global phenomenon.
I thought this was going to be about the real life Scottish feast the Red Wedding is based on.
I'm saving that for another video!
An other reason for Frey anger imo is the murder of one of theirs, one of the sons of Genna Lannister, just for the fact lord Karstark killed the Frey boy, I understand why death was chosen over just hostage.
Although it would have been nice if Robb had used that to explain it.
4:30 fun fact, Roslin Frey is his full sister, the fact then all the children from this wife were decent is interesting.
All *except* Benfrey Frey, who takes part in the Wedding. He's the guy who gets smashed in the face by Dacey Mormont
@@fantasyhaven1 I don't think Benfrey's mother is that of Olyvar.
Benfrey's mother was Lady Rosby - the mother of Perwyn, Olyvar, and Roslin (aka the wholesome Freys)
@@fantasyhaven1 3 out of 4 good kids isn't that bad.
Can't believe I only just discovered this channel. You deserve more views. Keep it up my man.
Thanks!
Oh my fucking god, the news segment was hilarious! Especially the written portion lol.
This event needs to be looked in the big picture of Westeros events. Possibly, and I really do believe that House Stark was dealt a crippling blow when Robb was declared King in the North. Had he followed the correct course and bent the knee to Stannis a proper alliance would have been formed. The Battle of the Blackwater was really when the Starks began to lose the North and Riverlands. Then the Lannisters could concentrate all their attention the Starks.
And guess what would have happened? Roose Bolton still with a betrayed him. This guy just got his ass beat at the Battle of the blackwater and we just said that we want you as our king of independent North. So exactly why the hell are you fighting a losing battle?
Tbh the plot had to be written in such a way that the Lannisters don't immediately lose so things that don't make a ton of sense under scrutiny happen.
The Frey madness continues
This might be your best video yet. Keep it up FH!
Thanks, will do!
Loved the news streaming, very witty! 😂 Subscribed.
Welcome aboard
my new favorite channel
This is the epitome of short term goals and long term losses. Tywin gets rid of Rob (who was already kinda losing) and in exchange he has to houses take over the North and Riverlands who have an incredibly tenuous hold on the land and a zombie hell bent on ending his line and the Freys
In case you read comments, just wanted to say your videos are very entertaining and well done. I love them, thank you for making them =)
And thank YOU for your support :)
I don't know what you used for the stabbing sound effect but it was very effective.
Tywin was most responsible but roose was the catalyst and lothar and the freys being the catspaw
"no one grinds more" made me lose it hahah
This was a good video.
I was pausing and starting so I could read the scrolling text. I do admit ive never lain with a maiden 😂
such high quality videos, keep it up bro
Cheers!
Thanks for the video
I think my favorite aspect of the sample chapters released so far, aside from the entirety of the forsaken. Theon’s mention that Crowsfood Umber has the green boys and Whoresbane Umber has the old men. It implies coordination between them, also the idea that the old men of the north commit themselves to suicidal action when winter comes is great potential foreshadowing of the Umbers inside winterfell doing something suicidal to hamper Roose
River lands always have the craziest stuff lmao HOTD shows it too
A different view I have is that the red wedding was the worst decision Twin made. How is that, he won the war? He may have technically won the war but basically lost the north and riverlands for decades if not more. There’s an insurrection against the Frey’s in the riverlands not long after the massacre and the Boltons only barely hold the north with Frey support. Cause if not the other northern houses have about on par soldier count as the Boltons and their bannermen. Twin just did I guess you call what the US was dealing with in Afghanistan but worse. Twin put a target on his back for the rest of his life that eventually someone would’ve made a shot to assassinate him. He may have won in the short term, but even if he lived he would’ve lost.
Omg dude, that corporate news outlet giving the "official story" was just perfect. Two thumbs up man!!
Thanks :)
Another amazing video thank you 🎉
No, thank you
Stannis will Avenge The Young Wolf!!!
Hail The King!
🫡
@@fantasyhaven1 🫡🤴🏻
ONE REALM!
ONE KING!
ONE GOD!
Just found your channel. I am loving your vids ❤
Thanks!
Bummed I didn't find any malazan videos in your backlog. I get they aren't as popular, but could be a fun idea :)
I plan to expand to new fantasy sagas in the future!
I love how your Roose looks like he just doesn't give a shit. :D
Ryman killed Catelyn because its ordered, when Catleyn saw her son killed, she start rip her face of, people around her start to talk about she is became mad, then unknown voice(probably Lord Walder Frey or Roose Bolton) ordered ''end this mess''
Sigma Tip #3 XD XD XD
Oh man, im dyin
This was a banger of a video man, I tip my cap to you!
Thanks :)
Excuse me it's been a year or so and this lonely viewer who's never known the touch of a maiden is still waiting for the advertised priestess-on-priestess oil wrestling segment
I love the way they are drawn lord walder looks great 😂
Not all that glitters is gold! It feels like every Lannister deal has been empty of value for every person that’s taken one. Tywin only allows himself to benefit, Cersei didn’t give Robert heirs. Jaime didn’t return the girls to Catelyn. Tyrion didn’t help Dany. 😭
This is a good example on how the title can seem misleading but still work 😅. I actually thought this was going to be about the real life inspiration of this event. Instead, its a wonderful, in depth, and very creative form of entertaining way of retelling what happened in the book. 😊
I was mislead...sort of...but not disappointed lol.
This is a really good point, I honestly might rename the video
@@fantasyhaven1 oh, no! I was saying it still works! 😊
But I genuinely wanna make some historical parallel videos, including a Red Wedding one, and "Real Red Wedding" would work better for that!
@@fantasyhaven1 maybe something like "The Genius of The Red Wedding"
Excellent summary
Thanks!
Great channel
Thank you
Great video
Thanks
I wonder how Big Walder Frey is going to be the lord of the crossing in the end?! Will he marry his cousin the heir apparent Roslyn Frey or will he be the last man standing assuming he survives the battle of ice in the north
Edwyn Frey is Walder's heir, and he has a daughter, so maybe a cousin marriage?
more han half of this went under the radar for me even after the second read. Going for a third now
Tywin - ended House Reyne and almost ended House Stark and the mighty House Targaryen.
LETS GOOOOOOOOO CONTENT
Haha I never noticed how Bolton looks like a younger Putin
With all the mistakes they made, one thing they did right was cut Stoneheart from the series.
Re-reading ASOIAF books and I found out that the show missed so many points regarding to the aftermath of the red wedding.
1. Northmen's loyalty to the Starks.
See? In the books, the remaining Northmen are doing a grand conspiracy to take down the Boltons and Freys because they are super mad for losing their king and families in the red wedding (there is still a questionable figure like Barbrey Ryswell, who kinda hates the Starks but still hates the Boltons nonetheless, or Arnolf Karstark, who sided with Roose) However, this never happened in the show. The "honorable", "loyal" and 'brave" Northmen were so comfortable at helping the Boltons terrorize people.
All the Northmen (except for Ellie from the Last of Us, of course) all sided with Boltons to the point that Robett Glover even insulted Robb for being stupid and "led Northmen to die" or the Umbers were fully on board with Ramsay by giving Rickon to be Ramsay's hostage even though they are split into two factions in the books.
The Northmen in the show give zero f*ck about honor. To make it worse, once Jon became king and Robett Glover pledged allegiance to him, Glover somehow suggested Sansa to usurp the throne from Jon afterwards. The Northmen in the show are even more disloyal and prone to betray each other more so than the Lannisters.
2. Tywin "the Great" and Starks "the fool"
I think the reason the audience love Tywin so much are mainly from Charles Dance's fantastic performance and a scene that never happened in the books. That scene he had with Arya.
So, in the books, that scene was supposed to be the precursor of the red wedding about how Arya found out that Roose Bolton might plan to betray Robb in some kind but the show turned it into a heartwarming scene between Arya and the kind grandpa Tywin who adored Arya's intelligence in contrast to Cersei's stupidity...except that people kinda forgot that Tywin didn't know Arya's true identity. That's why he could be playful with her and don't forget that he murdered half of Arya's family afterward in this red wedding so I don't understand why the audience keeps mentioning this scene as something adorable. Imagine Anne Frank met with Hitler one time and Hitler was quite fond of her (because he didn't know she's a Jew) then proceed to mass murder Anne Frank's family afterward, will anyone still consider their "relationship" adorable?
Also, Tywin was such a "great man", a "good leader" and a "king without crown", right?
Well, the context that people love to overlook is that, when the quote "Lord Tywin wore no crown, yet he was all a king should be." was spoken, it was from Pycelle to Jaime Lannister.
Pycelle, a spineless sycophant, a complete pushover will of course say everything good about Tywin to Tywin's favorite son to gain Jaime's favor and Jaime knows that. He hates Pycelle's guts.
And when Tywin was regarded as brave and was willing to do anything for his family, that was said by Genna (Tywin's sister) to, you guess it, Jaime again. So these two scenarios who talked positively about Tywin are a person who want to gain a favor from Jaime and a person who benefited from Tywin in the past.
About Starks the fool, the show interpret it as an objective reality and went overboard with victim blaming Ned, Robb, Cat, Talisa and Rickon. Yeah, I get it, these are good people and good people can't survive in a world run by scumbags but the tricky part in the books are
- The reason the Starks are so demonized in the books after the red wedding because people are so afraid to pledge loyalty to the Starks thanks to the combined force of Lannisters, Freys and Boltons. These are brutal dictators. I mean, nobody in the right mind would openly admit that they love Jews or they are gays when the Nazis were at the height of power, right? That's why Wyman Manderly had to pretend to kill fake Davos to show "loyalty" to the Lannisters while scheming with Davos and sending him to get Rickon in Skagos in secret.
- Another reason that the Starks are demonized in the books is because we spent an entire chapter with Merrett Frey. We saw things from Frey's perspective so of course there will be rationalization and victim blaming in his part.
D&D really missed the point about the North's cultural identity in the show (still better than Cersei bombing the entire vatican and receiving ZERO consequences for her actions. Worldbuilding is such an alien concept for D&D) and made people who are supposed to be loyal to the Starks hate the Starks for no reason to raise the stakes that doesn't make sense. It's like when one hero has to fight 10 additional villains for the sake of being exciting which ended up forcing the story to give that hero a crazy amount of plot armor to win the battle (look at Jon in Battle of Bastards, the arrows were all miss, no hit against him, or Arya who somehow survived getting stabbed and jumping into shitwater).
Great comment. Don't worry, I have a video about Tywin planned for the future
The brotherhood without banners never made sense to me in the show like ned sends them out to capture the mountain and than when ned dies they just decide to become bandits like wtf
They were sent out in King Robert's name, flying King Robert's banners. But King Robert died and they vowed to fight in his name to defend King Robert's smallfolk against Lannister raiders, and later on Northern raiders. They fly no banners because their numbers are made up out of former Lannister men, former Stark men, former Tully men and so on. What banner would they even fly to herald their cause?
@@DominionSorcerer ok but why where the lanestetrs raiding the small folk shouldn’t they have had the better supply lines and deeper pockets why would they need to do that
@@jonathanhirst5062 to punish them? It's a reaction to Catelyn Tully kidnapping Tyrion, and as the reaction Tywin sent Gregor Clegane and some more men to raid the Riverlands while wearing no identifying marks or banners.
Who is truly responsible? Robb himself and no one else.
As a crusader kings player, the red wedding is a master move in the world of politics, and I do it all the time in ck2 and ck3 😅
I knew the TV show ended when there was no Lady Stoneheart. She is a literal vengeful spirit so far gone that she is hanging Brienne of Tarth in the last book, that shit is too dark for the TV.
It would be an interesting what if if Catlyn had killed Walder Frey.
I have an idea for a video
You know about the theory that aenys and maegor are not aegon's sons but it doesn't matter for "prophetic reasons" bc they are still his blood (by his systers)
So i haven't seen anybody talk about the female blood line of the targaryen dynasty even so and analysis should be really interesting.
I must be late to this particular party but…. Charlie chaplins hot granddaughter??!!
Catelyn caused all of this by releasing Jaime. Tywin would never have approved this plan if Jaime was.a captive.
ASOIAF fans not trying to blame Catelyn for every single mishap in the story (IMPOSSIBLE CHALLENGE)
Robb was still fucked, him not telling edmure about his plan and letting the stone mill happen is what lost him the war. When the tyrells and lannisters became united is when robb stopped standing a chance. The red wedding just made it happen faster.
I always wondered about Raynald Westerling and what has happened to him. On one side he was just a minor character that only released Greywind but then again why leave his fate ambigious? Maybe he's the real Azor Ahai?
Everytime George leaves a character's fate ambiguous it makes me sus. But what would be the point in keeping Raynald alive?
House Reed caused the massacre of the Red Wedding. They always defied the Freys and their superiority when all the Freys wanted was to introduce advanced technologies and ways of life (Westeros wise) to this savage frog eaters; creating enmity betwen the two peoples. I bet when Walder Frey heard the whole North followed Robb that included the Reeds which of Course started their relationship badly. Later House Reed did not send any Men to fight for Robb, we are told they move through marshes and wetlands as the fearsome Crocodiles their sigil bears, they sound like Great scouts for the riverlands, and could be used to devastating effect by someone like the Blackfish. Yet they remain Hidden in their bogs and mud huts. Walder wanted the marriage of one of his girls with Robb Because then, finally someone of Frey blood could rule rightfully over the Crannogmen and civilize them. But no, Robb failed to hold his end of the deal. And with no other option the late Walder betrayed him. But imagine if the Crannogmen had been at the wedding their numbers could have turned the tide. But they did not, their sigil might be a cool af Crocodile, but their actions are more deserving of an ugly toad.
Shame on you House Reed.
The Great Reed Conspiracy
It is specified in the first books that Robb wants the Crannogmen in the Neck to stop, delay and harass any invading force that may try to attack the North. Indeed, when the Ironmen takes Moat Cailin, they make it hell for them to hold it, killing every scout, raiding or foraging party that try to exit the ruined stronghold with poisonous darts and arrows, and Robb wants their help in attacking and taking the Moat back.
Not sure if you're attempting to troll or if you actually believe this.
Love the asoiaf videos 🔥
Thanks!
"Those who pause or slow the video the read the text have likely never laid with a maiden" hey go to the seven hells I thought you would have appreciated my attention 😭
😂
RIP Reynald. Also wondering how the Spicers would drain Castamere without modern machinery.
i love how grrm tried for so long to make the pronunciation of alle the places and names less modern english like while in german the books really go full in changing stuff to make it sound like "german medieval" and i just hate it haha
Interesting, could you give some examples?
@@fantasyhaven1mayhaps its just because german is my native tounge but quite obvious is greyjoy, it wouldnt fit in a german medieval world so it became Graufreud and "freud" instead of "freude" (joy), which is common in older names and places
mance rayder on the other hand just became Manke Rayder (not like "man" but ma more like in "marble"), Maaan-Ke which ofcouse sounds way more german but I cant take that serious haha
shaggydog became - i cant stress that out enough - STRUPPEL which just sounds like a clischee dog name like porky or the german horror children story Struwwelpeter lmao
Kings Landing is Königsmund which doestn sound es epic imho but there is no "landing" in german that really fits a city name and "mund" means mouth but in this case "mund" describes the coastal situation (something something opening), not the actually soil on which KL is built on and the idea of aegon landing there gets a bit lost
House Yronwood became Isenwald which really just sounds like a rip off isengard for i see no connection between "Yron" and "Isen"
That's fascinating
@@fantasyhaven1 i guess the main reason why i cant really get into the german version is also bc I'm kinda more "accepting" towards like Jon Snow while Jon Schnee (literally german for snow) just sounds weird to me
I always wondered if native english speaker feel the same about english names (and like every single english song) haha
I think you meant to say that Catelyn grabbed Roose Bolton and not Edmure Tulley 😂😂😂
Im team stark but I love the barbaric way they propped robs body on his horse and put his wolfs head on it , savage
They are savage
Make a video on the Dothrakai(GRRM's pronunciation of dothraki)
👍
The Greatjon is/was already ninety percent alcohol
I just got to the Red wedding in the book and I wanted to yeet my book.
Same
There better be a fake ad in this video
No but there's a fake news report 👀
0:04 Russian interference in westrosi affairs
Underrated comment 😂
''We stab together''
437 views? You deserve better my guy
We're building up 🙏
@@fantasyhaven1 got something controversial that you might consider covering .. do you agree with the castings of House Velaryon? Or are they race swapped to check boxes? It's one of the very few gripes I have with the show tbh.
I think it's a good way to visually distinguish the Velaryons from the Targaryens for casual audiences, and the aesthetic is cool, although yeah I imagine it was mostly motivated by HBO quotas (and the explanation by Ryan Condal was a big PR misstep)
@@fantasyhaven1 Thanks man may your channel pump its numbers. Keep delivering good content
daenerys house of the undying vision "A feast of slaughtered corpses holding cups, spoons, and food, with a dead man with a wolf's head sitting on a throne wearing an iron crown"
I don’t even think Roose is a pragmatist. He was just an opportunistic psychopath who wanted power, and he took it.
Facing an opponent that is capable and willing to do absolutely anything and everything, with no regards towards human lives won't only have a huge advantage but also most definetely always win.
The north refused to "sink down to their level" while tywin had a "the end justify the means" mentallity.
Would you rather risk loosing and forfeit your life and those of your comrades but knowing that whatever you did was at least honorable or do whatever to win and increase your chances considerably, if you're losing the end result for you will be the same either way.
Taking the high road isn't always the best option, going with a logical and pragmatic approach it definetely isn't. You have nothing to win, only lose. Might as well try to win with whatever you have at your disposal.
It somehow feels awful to think about what they did to Robb, it actually makes me feel ill, even tough is all fiction. Taking off his head and sewing grey wind's on his body was the worst thing of all that happened in the red wedding. Ned and Cat's boy... desecrated like that, fuck off
The young wolf will be avenged winter comes for house fray
Salt in the wound tbh
Real medieval history was even worse than this dark medieval fiction, can you imagine that? And people wanna go back to times like that lmao
More news reports please!