CAYMUS Cabernet: Savvy Splurge or Overpriced Plonk?!?
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2023
- In this wine collecting 101 video, John Jackson, DipWSET a/k/a Attorney Somm discusses Caymus Vineyards and its wildly successful, yet polarizing Caymus Cabernet Sauvignon from Napa Valley. Attorney Somm discusses the history of Caymus, how Caymus Cabernet Sauvignon is made and its characteristics. Attorney Somm then explains why some people love Caymus Cabernet Sauvignon and others hate it. Attorney Somm then tastes the 2020 Caymus Cabernet Sauvignon and gives his thoughts regarding the 2020 Caymus. Lastly, Attorney Somm provides three wine recommendations for alternative Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon that arguably offer more quality than Caymus Cabernet and which sell for a much lower price. #caymus #caymusvineyards #napavalley
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I've heard old school Caymus was legit. I've had several recent vintages (2017+) including their Special Selection- and wound up giving them away. Too sweet. Too "oaky" for my taste. I'd rather drink a $20 Bordeaux!
Yes, Randy Dunn was the first winemaker! The Caymus SS from the 1990s is still showing well today. There is definitely lots of outstanding Bordeaux at the $20 price point. I would be curious to see how many people preferred that in a blind tasting with Caymus. My hunch is that the Bordeaux would do well.
Agreed. And if it would be a new world on the same price i would go for Chilean (Don Maximiano) Australian(Penfolds bin 707, or even 407) or any other of many California choices,Rutherford,Rubicon,Stags Leep. I do like Wagner's Belle Glos pinot noirs, although wery warm and sweet noted i do enjoy them a lot
@@milosbozilovic7843 Thanks very much for weighing in! Appreciate the additional suggestions. 👍🍷
1000% agreed! Caymus is overrated. Way too sweet! Too oaky and vanilla taste. The special selection is better but still sweet and fruit forward. I’m not a fan at all. I’m more of an old world wine person. There are good wines in Napa but not Caymus especially at that price point. Overrated and overpriced!
@@bella7450 Thanks very much for weighing in! 👍🍷
American winemakers have shifted their mindset from putting their best possible products on the map to beat old world wine countries at their game to focusing on building a brand so they can cash out to big conglomerates that will crank up massively the production and cut back on the high standards the winery used to have. A lot of these big names know they have to unload enormous quantities of their stock on the market year after year so their wines tend to all have the same style to appeal to as much people as possible. Bold ripe fruits, high alcohol, oak characters, low acidity, very soft tannins. They are not looking for consumers who will purchase their bottle once and never try it again, they are engineering a product with that wow factor so that the consumer remembers, comes back and keep buying more. Just like your average bag of potato chips but with a bit more class and a nice label to make the high price tag more palatable.
Thanks very much for your detailed comment and sharing your thoughts. 👍🍷
I've seen this wine on tv shows and other places where people want to show a nice bottle of wine but knew nothing of it in terms of taste. Thank you for this review....very informative.
My pleasure! Very glad it was useful. Thanks for watching and the thoughtful comment. Cheers!
Great video! Id love to see more videos talking about specific well known wines!
Thanks very much! Appreciate the feedback. I’ll definitely give it some thought!
Thanks, I really enjoy this exposition
Thank you! Much appreciated.
The stuff tastes like it's 1/3 Mega Purple. Overpriced Apothic.
Thanks for weighing in! Definitely lots of intervention by the winemaking team.
@@AttorneySomm After reading about it and hearing about it over many years (I can't afford it) I finally had a chance to try it at a tasting event, and I spit it out. Pancake syrup. And what about Belle Glos, and Meomi ...no longer Wagner, but ....
@@flatlander6734 Yes, those are the Pinot Noir versions of Caymus in my opinion. I could potentially do a similar video about one of those. Thanks for watching and weighing in!
Great review and info thank you
My pleasure! Thanks for watching, and the kind feedback!
For more wine recommendations, check out my Top Wine Videos: ua-cam.com/play/PL2aDDJZh--pBxznA7L8QMxaeVUXr2PxlO.html
Taking advantage of the slow traffic on the road to drop another comment: I really enjoyed the tasting part and your spontaneous wine critique and all the specific, detailed assessments of this polarizing and overrated wine. I hope you will do more videos with “live”/actual wine tasting and review. Santé, John!
Thank you, Margaux! So glad to hear it. Appreciate the positive feedback!
@Margauxyz2175 Wait..... You're commenting YT videos...while driving? 🤦
@@ecmo11 At dinner now. Passenger. I’ll publish first thing!
@@AttorneySomm Sorry, that was to Margaux YZ
Really enjoyed the video! Would love to see more live tastings in future videos! Cheers
Thanks very much! Appreciate the suggestion. I’ll try to work that in for sure. 👍🍷
Aewsome video. Thank you!!
Thank you! Very glad you enjoyed it.
Really enjoyed the video! I just visited an Alsatian winemaker that used to work at Caymus. If I may put a critique: I‘m not sure if it‘s intentional, but your attorney speaking style shines through a lot in your speech. I feel a bit like I‘m in court when listening, even though the subject of wine is something I associate with pleasure and enjoyment (unlike court)
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it! I’ve been an attorney longer than a YT person. But I appreciate the constructive feedback!
I’m going to Napa in about 3 weeks so this was very well timed! I’ll have to check out your Caymus-alternative suggestions asap.
Thanks! Very nice! I'm leaving for Napa on Saturday!
I agree with you completely John. I didn't answer the Instagram questionnaire because I don't want to say it is poorly made, but not worth it in my eyes, definitely not my style. My wife loves the wine and style. Drink what you like, if caymus is that wine, then go grab it. Personally speaking, I think there is such better value elsewhere. Very cool review of this individual wine! Hope you found some Napa gems in your trip!
Thank you! Very much agree. Everyone should drink what they enjoy. I actually head to Napa a week from today. Looking forward to it! Cheers!
Thank you John. Another great video. My personal favorite Napa Cabernet is Silver Oak. Their 1997 was to die for, but so too were many other Napa Cabs as '97 was a fabulous year. I suspect many of those who participated in your surveys about Caymus fall into two camps: Inexperienced wine consumers and Experienced wine consumers. The inexperienced group likely loved Caymus, especially with the sweetness level, while the experienced group likely hated it. Back in 2000, when I barrel tasted the '97 Silver Oak, I would have placed myself in the inexperienced group. Now in 2023, my tastes are more refined as I enjoy more French and Italian wines. Way back in 1993 I considered myself very savvy when I brought home 6 bottles of Sutter Home White Zinfandel. The phrase the tour guide used then for White Zinfandel may apply to Caymus ==> "Chateau Cashflow". FYI, I'll be starting WSET Level 3 in a month or so. Any tips and suggestions are welcome and appreciated. - Ed
Thanks very much, Ed! Appreciate your thoughtful response! Congratulations on starting level 3! It is a terrific program. For me, creating my own flash cards helped a lot.
The 1994 Caymus Special Selection was an amazing wine, so powerful you could just about see the compressed steel spring in the wine. Silver Oak was very popular being a bit over-ripe and very well oaked and released when it was determined to be ready to drink. On the other hand, Caymus was brilliantly structured and could be aged to very good effect. Then the Caymus 40th Anniversary special bottling showed up...and we hated it. Then all Caymus was made that way. I miss the big oak years as I love a glass of oak-water. I also enjoyed the high alcohol years of the first decade of this century when Napa Cabs were generally 15.2, 15.4, 15.6 if you checked the label. But things have calmed and most Napa Cabs are now 14.5 or slightly more, with less oak and the wines are better for it as the balance is much better and they generally like to age a bit but can be drank immediately, which always surprises me as that was not the way the good stuff used to be with the big tannic structure, before everyone got into tannin management to make to wines much more approachable much sooner. I feel like Caymus blinked and lost me by going too ripe with acid just too low and somehow thinking lots of oak could cover that up. I had not tasted one in a while, so thank you, I see things haven't changed. I also have to say that if that is what I crave, I can get an approximation from some other winery for about $20. Which really saddens me.
Thanks very much for your comment! Completely agree re: the 94 Caymus SS. I had it side-by-side with the 94 Cheval Blanc a few years ago and the Caymus was better. It is definitely very expensive now for what it is.
Great honest and unbiased review sir! The last good Caymus I remember having was the 2012 40th Anniversary, but even that was a bit of a fruit bomb. Since then, each time I've tried Caymus, I like it less. To me, it feels too manipulated in the sense of trying to make it seem aged. I also feel that many who say they love Caymus tend to have less experienced palates simply due to having not tasted as many varied vintages and varietals over the years. This is not a bad thing though, because as you noted, if an individual likes a wine, then it's 'good' for them.
Thanks very much! Appreciate the kind feedback and thoughtful comment. 👍🍷
Nice to see a video including some wine tasting, even though the outcome happened to be quite predictable this time. Would love to see you taste some wines that you like. 🍷
Thank you! Appreciate the suggestion.
The first time I ever tasted Caymus, it was life changing. It took me from a casual wine drinker to an enthusiast. It was the 2019 vintage and a client of mine was raving about it. I absolutely fell in love and completely understand the passion behind this wine!! I am not expert, like many of you on here- but I absolutely love how smooth and velvety it is on my palette. My husband who only will rarely drink a glass of wine with me discovered his love for wine starts with Caymus. All that said, I 100% agree with the assessment of Sequoia Grove. It is up there as one of my top 3-4 cabs and I don't hesitate for a moment when buying it at a restaurant. I will say though, it is now closer to $55-$60 per bottle. Oberon, which is about $20 a bottle is outstanding- in my opinion and is honestly my favorite because it has the great taste for a much lower price point.
Thanks very much for weighing in! I definitely enjoyed it a lot early on and it was a bit of a gateway for me. I’ll keep an eye out for Oberon! Cheers!
Im glad I saw this review before Ive bought a bottle. Defntly, over riped and low structured wines are not my ball game!tnx for the review ❤❤
My pleasure! Very glad it was useful. Thank you for the positive feedback. Cheers!
I am a winemaker in the Midwest, where many customers do not appreciate vintage variations. They want their favorite wine, usually sweet here, to be the same year in and year out. To achieve this in the cellar you have considerable manipulation during the winemaking process. With our estate grown fruit and other west coast fruit that we purchase, we try to do very little manipulating, so that the characteristics of the vintage shine through. I tell people all the time, “we don’t make Coca Cola here. We make wine. There’s a reason they put the vintage date on the bottle.” People who drink wines like Caymus wine lovers do not really appreciate wine…..they want “sameness”. And that’s not the reason I got interested in wine to begin with. There’s a secret inside that bottle. Half the fun for me is discovering it.
Thanks very much! Well said! Appreciate your perspective and your thoughtful comment. 👍🍷
I think that’s why wines like Lindemann’s have proven successful. I think they’re a good value and they also have the McDonald’s effect where every time you pick up a bottle it’s pretty much gonna be the same flavor. I think for most budget minded wine drinkers they don’t like to take a risk on a more expensive bottle of wine that is not going to suit their expectation. Costco is a good place to find cheaper wines that punch well above their weight and I think they give an opportunity for people to go a little bit further out of their comfort zone.
@@oneanddonetzone3673 yes I understand that perspective and agree with you!
Just discovered your channel & subscribed. I enjoy your content and hope it helps me with my own DipWSET pursuit - I'm in D3 right now, and it's the last Unit I have remaining to clear.
Thanks very much! Glad it is useful! Good luck with the beast! 👍🍷
Thanks for the video. I must admit I am a lover of Caymus. Had the 2018 and 2020 recently and to me they are consistent and fabulous. Yes its pricey but I am going to try your recommendations too. One that I love also as an alternative is Treana $20+ - recommended by another wine youtuber like yourself.
Thanks very much! Appreciate the tip re Treana. Have not tried that one yet. Hope you enjoy the suggestions! 👍🍷
This is a funny one..
"Micky Mouse"
I went with a couple friends to France. Champagne, Burgundy, you know.. all the goods winewise.. ended up in the Rhine River for some German Wines. We ask the owner of a very recognized Vineyard to top wines in the world.
I will quote him:
1st France
2nd Italy
3 Germany
4 whatever
60th Micky Mouse.
So.. we ask, what in the heaves.. he says: yeah! You know.. those Caymus California sweet wines.. we call USA micky mouse!
I couldn't be angry with the guy at all 😂😂
Ha! Yes, that is a great story! Thanks for sharing!
I work at a steakhouse in Vegas. Caymus is consistent. And popular with a crowd. We sell the heck out of it. It is asked for by name. Constantly.
I have no doubts! I see it on every other table when I go out to steakhouses here.
About four years ago I got to try Caymus. I was very excited. I enjoy big, high octane fruit forward red wines (Carnival of Love, Clio, Hillside Select). I had wanted to try Caymus for about five years I was flush with cash and saw a cheap half-bottle at retailer. As soon as I sniffed it I was alarmed. It smelled confected, like Rombauer Zinfandel, Freakshow, or Meomi. On the palate it was gross - I was afraid that I would retch. I spat out my first mouthful, had a second that I spat, and didn't drink any more. I was baffled - I thought that I was a sure thing to love this. It tasted manipulated, unnatural and artificial. If you told me that it was Meomi I would have believed you. I couldn't imagine that an $80 wine would scare me about vomiting. I have zero desire to ever try this again.
Thank you for sharing that experience. Certainly one of the most averse reactions I have heard, but definitely understand that perspective!
Oh my, Sequoia Grove! My first ever Napa Valley Cab Sauv from 13 years ago. Highly enjoyable!
Thank you! That was the first Napa winery I ever visited! A sentimental favorite for me as well.
Nice and well researched video on an interesting subject!
Just one more thing to know - could you explicate more why you think the Napa Cabs you recommend at the end are better than the Caymus from taste perspective?
Thanks! Yes, I think they have sweet Napa fruit, but fruit that is not cloying or syrupy. They have better balance with more tannic structure and higher acidity.
Awesome review! My first introduction to red wine was a Caymus Cab. (I know, poor me?) I did enjoy it very much. It was my FIL’s favorite, along with Far Niente Cab. He enjoyed others too but he always had Caymus as backup in case he’s drinking with those new to wine (back then, me :)) It’s a safe red wine and consistent. And because of that, I won’t pay for it. I prefer a curve ball!! I haven’t been interested when he’s brought out 2018+ but vertical tasting for next time sounds interesting. I know he still has vintages and will let you know how that goes. I do have a couple of bottles of their Zin (if you think their cab is jammy.. their Zin much more jammy 🤨 but half the price). You know, for those guests who are hung up on the brand. I loved this review and was always curious what you thought about it.. Sante!
Thanks very much! I still recall enjoying Caymus and visiting back in 2007 when I was starting out. I enjoyed it then, but this bottle was not something I would buy. Definitely curious about the vertical! Haven’t tried the Zin! Does that have lots of oak too or just jammy fruit? Appreciate the comment!
@@AttorneySomm jammy, oaky, peppery but also predictable. I do decant for a bit though. For the price, I’ll pick up the Zin over the Cab
This is a cool video that you made as I’m one of those people that typically kind of like Caymus. I have tried all the most recent vintages and I must say that the 2015 and 2016 vintages is the only ones worth getting. the 2020 vintage was just kind of OK. I still get it because most people see Caymus and they are happy because they are not familiar with many other wines iand associate Caymus with a high class wine so it’s more of a novelty in my opinion. I would love for you to make more videos like this of other well-known namebrand wines, such as Beringer, but only their private reserve B V, same thing only their reserve Robert Mondavi reserve. Laird. For some of the ones like I’ve named anything less than their reserve is definitely quite rancid.
Thanks very much! Appreciate the kind feedback. This video has been well received so far, so I’ll definitely think about other similar videos in the future. Cheers!
John, thank you for the exceptional work you do preparing for and presenting these very informative videos. I know you have to be somewhat diplomatic when critiquing these wines as to not offend certain pallets in your viewing audience.... However I am very pleased that you reached the proper verdict, that is as far as my palate is concerned lol.. Sometimes I wonder if it's not the wine you like but the wines that you know...Cheers brother 🍷😁🍷
Cheers! Thanks very much. The look on my face while tasting spoke volumes I think. 😁 But I do recall enjoying this wine when I first started out back in 2007-2008. I’m a big fan of challenging assumptions and trying new things. Hopefully this may encourage a few people to branch out a bit. 👍🍷
I've been drinking Caymus wines since 2010-2011. I've enjoyed many vintages of both the Napa Valley Cab and the Special Selection.
It's my understanding that Caymus 2020 vintage was not impacted by the glass fire. They source from 8 of the 16 AVAs in Napa Valley in order to produce this wine. It's also my understanding that they'd already harvested their grapes before the fire. I'm going to look further into this because I want to be certain.
Currently, my favorite SS is 2008 and 2009.
Several years ago, I had the pleasure of tasting a 1982 vintage of the Napa Valley Cab. It was an awesome experience.
There's something called the "Caymus Style." It's what they're known for. It's why they're famous.
They've been in business for 50 years. I believe their wines are worth whatever they'd like to sell them for. They have earned it. The family has a remarkable story.
With all that said, is it my favorite Cabernet Sauvignon? The answer is no.
I completely agree with you about the best wine. It's always the one you like.
Cheers!
@@Gurl3333 Cheers! Thanks for weighing in! An incredibly successful wine for sure. To me it seemed to have some slight fire influence, albeit very mild. The fires started as early as August 15 so that is very early for Cabernet to be completely harvested.
All of the above, you pretty much covered it all, a much needed video evaluation. Caymus certainly has its place, just not for me, the price bugs me the most. As far as the special selection, I had a bottle of a more recent vintage last year, and I could barely tell the difference. I understand the vintages from the 90s are much better. Appreciate the recommendations, I have not had the Titus yet. I was also wondering about the 2020 vintage, saw a video a while back recommending to stay away from 2020 in Napa.😎. Many thanks, John.
Thanks Doug! There are some reds in Napa that turned out well in 2020, but it is a bit of a minefield and hard to determine which is which. And 2018-19 are strong so I just recommend most people buy those vintages.
Titus is an amazing producer. Great you suggested them. Just had their Merlot and it was very complex.
@@pizzacatking Thank you! Yes, they do a fantastic job! 👍🍷
Probably unsurprisingly, I’m not Caymus’ target consumer. Tasted it once or twice, and wasn’t convinced. However, I completely understand why many people would like it.
I do appreciate the value recommendations. I’ve found Napa to be such a minefield at under $70 or so that, at the moment, I don’t own a single bottle from there. I admit I haven’t put in much effort to look for relative values, though, so I might have to look into these.
Thank you! The Titus and Clos du Val punch well above their weight! Hope you enjoy them as much as I do. 👍🍷
Thank you Attorney Somm. That was an excellent review. I think I'm in the same boat as you in terms of taste preference. Was wondering what differentiates their special selection from the regular wine? I've had the special selection a few times and still have one 2007 left in my cellar. Like the regular wine I find the special selection to be an overly ripe and concentrated oak bomb as well.
Thank you! I haven’t had younger version of the SS, but it is a selection of their best fruit. The vintages from the 90s are outstanding and still show well.
The differences between the Special Selection and the regular Napa Valley Cab are that the Wagners choose the best barrels of the vintage for Special Selection and it is barrel aged for 3 to 4 years vs. 18 mos for the Napa Cab.
I had Caymus a few years ago at one of those large winery tasting events. It was so over the top like a smack in the face. Nothing subtle about this wine. Some people like that though so i don’t begrudge them. I was pleased to hear you recommend Clos Du Val. I was hoping youd say that as its the #1 Napa value wine I recommend. For a more rustic style Ive recommended Heitz napa cab as well.
Thank you! Very glad you concur. Clos du Val has long been a favorite of mine!
My wife and I provided a wine tasting event for 8 friends less than 2 weeks ago - 3 whites and 3 reds. One of the reds was the 2020 Caymus Napa Cab. It was far and away the most expensive, by at least $30 more than the next Wine (a Furthermore Pinot Noir), and the least favorite of everyone including my wife and me. The $15 Rioja was far and away the favored wine, which went well with rumaki. When asked what other Cab I would recommend, I said hands down Sequoia Grove, so of course was “yelling” Sequoia Grove at you near the end. 😄
Very nice! Glad you enjoy the SG too! Thanks for sharing the results of your tasting. So much value in Rioja! And very interesting re the Caymus. It does not surprise me though. 👍🍷
Sequoia Grove is so underrated, im.sure because it is made in a classic style.
Some people take wine drinking way too serious. If you find a wine you like, drink it. If not, move on to something else. Wine is a gift we should enjoy
Agreed. I help to educate people about it and also provide suggestions so people can maximize their enjoyment and get the best wines for the price. In my view, there are many better wines for less money.
No one enjoys wine more than I do.
This is such a comprehensive, astute, and highly analytical evaluation and dissection of an evidently polarizing wine. Too ripe, too sweet and fruity? I certainly wouldn’t like or enjoy this wine. Definitely not my style. Besides, Caymus is so overpriced in my country. It’s around $160. There are so many other excellent options of Cabernet Sauvignon and I’d really much rather drink my favorite predominantly Cab Sauv wines from the Left Bank. Having said that, I have to emphasize how impressive this video is. The script is so well-prepared and has your signature all over it - clear, objective, intelligent, structured, logical, analytical. And your delivery is the epitome of eloquence and clarity. I’ll be back with comments on the second half of this impressive video later tonight (not yet done watching😁). Merci beaucoup, John! Santé!
Merci beaucoup, Margaux! So glad you enjoyed it! I was so curious about this wine since it is so polarizing. Truly appreciate the support and kind words. Hope you enjoyed your weekend! Santè!
@@AttorneySomm My pleasure, John! De rien! It really is an excellent video. Flawless!
Thank you, this was a nicely balanced piece. The reality is that Caymus is able to sell good wine at a high price and that's great for the family business. The market always pays a premium for brand recognition and reliability and it seems the case here. If you are ordering steaks and wine at a business dinner, and you can spend 120 on Sequoia Grove or Titus which your client never heard of, or Caymus for 170, which would most business hosts buy? The market says it's Caymus or Shafer or even Heitz. If you know Napa, and know whether you like mountain fruit, valley fruit, structure, stone/ash etc. you are probably buying from boutique or smallish wineries anyway - likely direct, but that crowd is dwarfed by the mass-affluent market. In any case, thanks for the discussion and the real time tasting.
Thanks very much! Yes that all makes sense and totally understand that perspective. I also have given the Caymus to clients as gifts and it was well received.
Ok John, I had to laugh when I read the headline of your video, and couldn’t wait to watch it!! But I also knew your answer before hitting the play button!!
I know you have to be politically correct and remain neutral so as to not upset any of your subscribers. But I’ll say it for you. Caymus, and fruit bombs like it are almost not drinkable for any seasoned knowledgeable wine drinker. You might as well just pour a spoon of sugar in your mouth.
Almost any similarly priced Bordeaux from either bank will blow that Caymus away. And the drinkers of this style wine will never appreciate the subtleties of a Burgundy or Sangiovese. And the amazing terroir of northern and southern Rhone.
It's all about the bigger and bigger fruit!!
I know money is the main culprit and they are just giving “some” people what they want. Luckily there’s still some Napa wineries that don’t subscribe to this, and can produce some stellar wine with nuance and complexity.
There…I said it. Finally got it off my chest. I'm sure I'll get some hate. LOL
Thanks very much for weighing in! Yes, for many, it seems like Caymus served as a gateway wine and then they progressed from there to the wines that you mention in your comment. I was a bit surprised at the taste of the current Caymus. When I first started out, I drank it. That was back in 2007 or so. I hope that it has changed since then, but maybe I just progressed (or possibly both). Hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend!
"Unapologetically New World" is a great way to describe it. Since taking the deep dive in wine the last 5 years, I can see how Caymus flavor profile is designed to crowd please. I suspect manipulation (mega purple/red) This to me tastes like wine flavored juice. Great at a steakhouse, with people who normally drink beer.
Thank you! Yes, definitely a wine with a huge following. There are very few technical details about its production, but there is clearly lots of intervention.
@@AttorneySomm Gun to my head, my choice for pure Napa Cab's to rival Caymus at cost would be. Stags Leap Winery ($58) Buena Vista ($44) Turnbull ($51) & the mid Mondavi.
@@denisdonohue1863 Thanks! Yes, definitely some very worthy suggestions and at a fraction of the cost.
Well I was expecting this to be a bash session. Most videos on Caymus tend to lean that way. However this video was pretty fair. The history is accurate, and both sides were prevented fairly. I would encourage you to do a similar video for the 2021 vintage. It will be noticeably different from 2020 and would make for a good follow up. It may not change any opinions, but 2021 is more representative of Caymus than 2020.
Finally I will leave it at the is. A lot of people think Caymus is corporate and hate on them for that reason. But they aren’t. They are family owned and the family is heavily involved. They also happen to be amazing people. For that reason, (even though I think there is better wine) I will often reach for Caymus.
Thanks. I definitely wanted it to be even-handed. When I first began drinking wine, I enjoyed it and visited the winery. And I have enjoyed older vintages of SS throughout, including several in the past year. So I was not sure what to expect when I tasted it for this video. That is a good idea re: the 21 vintage. I definitely think that the 20 had some smoke influence on at least a portion of the fruit. Also, regardless of my personal opinion, if people enjoy it and want to drink it, I'm not going to try to persuade them otherwise. I'm a firm believer that the only good wine is the wine you like and people's tastes vary. Thanks for watching and weighing in. Cheers!
@@AttorneySommwelcome
The Coppola Diamond Claret is pretty similar to Caymus and it’s below $15.
Thanks! I’ll have to try it again. Would be a fun blind tasting! 👍🍷 Happy New Year!
Loved the 2012 but the style has changed and become more fruity, sweeter, and oakier. Not my personal style but likely crazy successful with many consumers.
Thank you for weighing in! Definitely a wildly successful wine and one that is very much a crowd pleaser. 👍🍷
Whomever drinks Caymus will be saving a great deal of $$$ by switching to drinking Port Wines at 1/2 the price
I like Caymus. Definitely not geared towards the wine enthusiast, definitely high-intervention winemaking, and overpriced. But it helped get me into wine, and honestly, the fruit is impressive - especially in good vintages. Caymus is far less offensive than many other popular Napa Valley cabernets. While I'm not a huge fan of the wine, I absolutely respect it.
Thanks very much for weighing in! Definitely a gateway wine for many wine enthusiasts. Appreciate your thoughts! Cheers!
Personally I’m not a huge fan. Prefer a cab from Chateau Montelena as it’s more laid back, not as explosive and usually more complex. However I always keep a bottle of Caymus in my cellar for company. It’s basically a household name.
Thank you. Yes, it is definitely a crowd pleaser, and usually very well received. 👍🍷
Pretty much called it an over oaked monstrosity without saying it.. good work!
I had not tasted it in so long I wasn’t sure what to expect, but I was quite surprised. Tastes vary and many love it, but it is definitely not my style at this point.
When I started drinking wine , specially from Napa, I had a different palate , and was impressed by the fruit bomb and length . I still like Napa wine . There’s a lot of good producers that don’t weight on the oak and still can do refreshing and memorable wine , without looking for almost recipe wines . But I know that a lot of people like approachable sweet wines with full body ( red or white ) instead of complex layered and fresh ones . We have to respect .
Very much agree. I started out that way too. Caymus is a gateway wine for many beginning wine enthusiasts. I definitely tried to be diplomatic and respectful to all views.
Any California cabs you'd recommend that AREN'T fruit and oak bombs? Most I feel as if it's just grape juice mixed with vanilla extract and labeled as a Napa cab!
@@rgiamboi Yes I recommend a few at the end of the video. In addition to those, you might consider Corison, Mayacamas and Dunn (at higher price points than the suggestions in the video). Very classic, old school wines.
@@AttorneySomm and @rgiamboi if I may, there’s also mathiasson , if you prefer more fresh driven wines ! Cheers !
At the same price point, consider the Sinegal Estate Cab, Merryvale NV Cab, Napanook, Chappellet Signature Cab.
Thanks for weighing in. I recommend many of those in other videos. Agree with you.
I began drinking Caymus with the 1993 vintage ($35/bottle; I could buy at most 6 bottles at my favorite wine store). I fondly remember the early 90s regular cab bottlings by Caymus. However, I think the 2017 regular bottling (by comparison) is too sweet and "unknit." I have ceased buying Caymus as overpriced and nothing more than a "cabernet cocktail." There are better values (I agree with your recommendation of Clos du Val) such as Second Labels of well-known Bordeaux. Thanks for this critique of what is undoubtedly a very popular wine (especially in the restaurant trade). I appreciate your "live tasting" followed by your impressions.
Thanks very much! Appreciate you sharing your thoughts as well as the kind feedback. 👍🍷
I know you haven’t been a fan of Caymus (I agree) since about 2014. But the new 2021 black label is worth trying. Interested to know what you think. Cheers!!
Thanks! I’ll keep an eye out! 👍🍷
So would you consider Caymus a recipe wine because it’s so consistent?? I agree with your review about the wine. One thing that you didn’t mention about Caymus and other cabs. Is that it doesn’t tell a story, or if it does it’s very predictable.
I consider it a recipe wine due to the heavy winemaking intervention and manipulation to achieve a consistent style. I did mention it is considered boring by many and not a good choice for a vertical for that reason. I don’t think that is the case for every Cabernet, but it is for a number of them.
I've only tried Caymus twice. Once back in 2006 (If I'm not mistaken it was an early 2000 vintage)...it was a nice present from my ex-director when hit the company target (it was originally a dare from him....beat or meet the target and I could have lunch anywhere I wanted..I joked...well, gotta work harder than that, I wouldn't take no less than a nice wine dinner at Ruth Chris which to my surprise he said yes..and the morning we hit the target, I came to my desk and there was a print out from Ruth Chris' menu at my desk...). Anyway....the second one was about a couple years later at a wine party but it was an earlier vintage (1999?) unfortunately I didnt know what I was really drinking or remember that much about both as my wine knowledge was limited then (it is still now hahahaa). In any case, I bought a 2020 bottle last year to 'relive' the moments but judging from other comments looks like I have to adjust my expectations just a bit....i think i paid about $85...
Thanks very much for weighing in! I’ll be curious to hear your thoughts. The style for both of those wines was likely a bit different, but you never know. Lots of people still enjoy it. 👍🍷
@@AttorneySomm I was told that drinking it now is a bit too soon.. unless a very special event happens soon, maybe I'll drink it in a couple years...and let you know! :)
@@winesoup6907 Sounds good. Thanks!
We need a video of your cellar!
Thanks! Unfortunately, my wine is currently spread around 4-5 different storage solutions. My primary cellar is not that photogenic at the moment with wine stacked up 4-5 feet on the floor throughout.
I’ve only ever had 2016 Caymus, this year. Had it with a prime rib dinner. I really enjoyed it. It was a New Year’s Eve dinner, so I wasn’t totally focused on the wine. I get the “flabby” comments. I like a bit more acid than the wine offered. But I’m a sucker for fruity, velvety reds and it delivered there. I’d agree it overpriced. I scanned comments, didn’t see any mega-purple comments…Caymus-haters I know pull that card.
Thanks very much for weighing in! Appreciate your input. 👍🍷
The red colored centerpieces of the shown barrells completely threw me off. It's a testament off the artificial marketing approach that cares more about the looks and image of the brand than of the acutal quality/taste of the product itself. Once you create a monster brand you have to deliver to the broad unschooled masses of fans on a constant level. This can no longer be in line with the fact that great wine varies dramatically based upon vintage. Multi-Million dollar operations like the Wagner co. seem unable nor willing to deal with that uncertainty these days. Don't be mad at them, it's just business. There's plenty of alternatives, you just need to get over label drinking habits.
Yes they are clearly wildly successful and have a formula that is well received by a huge number of consumers. I have definitely moved on, but enjoyed this exercise since it had been so long since I tried it. Cheers!
@@AttorneySomm - Caymus has also been the reason why i cancelled my Wine Spectator subscription. The ties between them running Ads and receiving way too high ratings on a regular basis just became way to obvious. Sad but true. Cheers!
Wine drinking and tasting is so subjective. I am a Caymus fan although I also like other wines. I’m not a wine snob.
Tastes also evolve. I used to enjoy it regularly. Thanks for weighing in!
I enjoyed the Caymus 2021
Excellent! Thank you for weighing in. 21 is an excellent vintage in Napa.
Years ago on the Mark Squires Bulletin Board there was a thread and Chateau Lascombes 2nd Growth Margaux Vintages was 2005. The discussion was is Lascombes getting so new world that it was losing it's highly acclaimed status as a 2nd Growth Marguax in the 1855 status and can no longer detect the Terroir. I find a huge polarization to the Fat Styled Mouthfeel that tend grow to highly Alcohol, California, Australian, then people end up drinking Port cause the Mouth Feel has reached its Peak. When that happens i feel that the whole Wine experience has derailed. I started with the 1989 Red Bordeaux and one tasting i had was d'Angelus, Palmer, Haut Brion, Lynch Bages, Tronquoy Lalande $10; just to keep my point simple they all had identity, . This probably was 1991-2. Angelus was the most intriguing wine of the group, and when 1990 Angelus came around it was different than the 1989. I clear clean missed Haut Brion and Palmer, Lynch Bages and Tronquoy Lalande was in my wheel house. But there was distinction. Since those days today i really enjoy Traditional Modern Wine like d'Issan, Brane-Cantenac, Grand Puy Lacoste especially 19', but i also enjoy Right Bank Chateau Laroque 2019 almost drank the whole bottle and i knew it was St Emilion but was able to delineate cause the terroir was still coming thru. I would like to know if it is St Emilion,vs St Estephe, Margaux, Pauillac etc not because of the bottle but because the Modern Wine Making is allowing the Terroir to still come thru.
In 1998-2000 i was big on Australian Shiraz Fox Creek Reserve, Noon Reserve Shiraz just crazy very ripe high alcohol wines
Thank You for the post....Cheers
Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts! I agree that a sense of place makes wines far more interesting. I’m a big fan of Laroque too. I recommend Laroque in a number of my videos. 👍🍷
@@AttorneySomm Yes you are the reason I tried it a St Emillion very reasonable price and I hear the 2020 Laroque is very much the same❤️
This video encouraged me to buy a bottle of Caymus. It's 2021. Should I let it age a couple years? Or is it more as you said, so I should just pop and pour it.
Glad to hear it! With Caymus there is no need to wait. You can enjoy it immediately, but it will also hold for a few years as well with proper storage.
@@AttorneySomm Great, so I'll just go for it, so that I can formulate my own opinion finally on it.
@@dougronald561 Sounds good! I'll be interested to hear your thoughts. Cheers!
@@AttorneySomm you’re much kinder and more precise in your analysis. I popped it open with dinner just now. To me, it tastes vaguely between Manischewitz and 3 Buck Chuck. Lol
@@dougronald561 Oh no! Hopefully you have a plan B! 😂 I try to be even handed. For lots of people it’s their favorite.
and my sense of 'new world' is not sweet /fruit forward wines that lack other important components/ but the market sells and that's what's important.....?
Many of Chuck Wagner's wine over years have changed to cater to a broader audience. Not necessarily a negative as a business decision, but you might turn off your initial early adopters. Perhaps keeping some of the labels true to their initial craft, while usings other labels to broader appeal is a better approach.
Thanks for weighing in! Yes they have been wildly successful. But I definitely think your approach would be better.
John What about Opus one? Just a suggestion on making video on Wines better and cheaper then Opus one… Is opus one worth spending $$$$?
Thanks! I actually just did a video on 8 Napa Valley wines that I'm buying now right after I returned from Napa. Have you seen that one yet? If not, I can send a link.
@@AttorneySomm I think I did but please send me link
@@sanjaypatelmd4669 ua-cam.com/video/-Drrlii4UIQ/v-deo.html
Caymus is steakhouse wine. It's big, bold, expensive, and not sophisticated. A typical steakhouse isn't a ever going to get a Michelin star, but it has decadent over the top food that costs a lot of money, and this kind of wine pairs well with it.
Thanks for weighing in. Cheers! 👍🍷
Ahhhh the famous Caymus ! Love it or hate it, it´s always been like that. While I used to love Caymus, I think the latest 10 vintages or so changed to the worse. Maybe the last vintage I liked was 2010 and then hell broke lose. 2012 a total disaster ( the 40th aniv). Now, serve Caymus to non wine geeks and it will CRUSH any wine out there. Caymus is a safe bet UNLESS you are a wine geek. Caymus SS @$220 ? NO WAY JOSE ! Last but not least, I lost all faith in many wineries that did came out with a 2020 vintage wine. 2020 should not be bottled and Caymus showed a total lack of respect "manufacturing" a 2020 for its customers. Currently I have a few bottles of Caymus SS 04,07,08, and 2010 and they are great, but certainly not worth $250+. For better options I have the Turnbull and if you really like very sweet wines there is a much better value in Paso Robles, specifically Austin Hope. GREAT VIDEO !!!!!!!!!!
Thanks very much for watching and the thoughtful comment! Very glad you enjoyed it! Yes I was surprised (shocked) by the SS pricing. I ended up cutting some clips about the 2020 vintage since I was going off on a tangent. Could easily do a video just about that alone. The producers that bite the bullet and don’t produce a 2020 definitely have my admiration and respect. A tough business decision but the right call for most.
one word / sameness: i tried a couple wines from the 90s long ago and i thought they used to be nice and perhaps a good example of cabernet from california / over the years i started shifting away from CA wines and today, last I tasted a Cayme by in 2019 i think, i thought it was surely at the level of many 20/25$ wines and when I tried something like the famous Schaefer Cab and I felt cheated and like I couldn't even finish the wine at all....ive started to get the sense that Cabs in CA seems to be made with a consumer formula in mind to sell and now look like the SUV market where they all look (taste) the same and lack character and brand distinction. I still go to France Spain and Italy any day.... over CA wines / it's perhaps hard to think that while it has such a unique and perfect wine lover topography, it may have lost it's way from what it used to be for me / for me.... thanks
Thank you for weighing in. There are still plenty of producers that do things differently, but it is difficult for consumers to identify them. Certainly Corison, Mayacamas and Dunn do things the classic way to name a few.
My local wine shop owner who knows my palate has warned me to stay far away from this wine as it is super jammy.
I don’t disagree. I include three wines that I think are better at lower price points for that reason.
Yes to Sequoia Groove. My parents drink that all the time and way to early.
Thank you! Yes that one ages very well. I just enjoyed the 06 Reserve. 👍🍷
Caymus can taste good with a fatty steak. I see the appeal especially for people that aren’t big wine drinkers. When I open a Northern Rhône Syrah or class growth Bordeaux for my non wine drinking friends they’re always blown away by how great wine can be. But they still go back to Caymus and the big over the top Napa wines anyway.
Yes, so many people are huge fans. They have a loyal following.
Agree!
Thank you kindly! Cheers!
5:20 That’s Opus One’s cellar room!
It is! Good eye. Wanted a pic for new oak aging. Didn’t have one from Caymus.
Keep up the good work!
@@chrisw9474 Thanks! Much appreciated.
I used to buy cases of Caymus for about $21-$22/bottle. I enjoyed it for years but have found more recently it over sweet, little structure, flabby.
Much better CA or WA cabs for the money.
Thank you. I concur.
I’ve had the 1990 Caymus a few month back and it blew me away!
I’ve never had some of their newer Vintages so I can’t relate
Thanks! Yes a different and very impressive wine in that era.
I really enjoyed Caymus in the mid 90s. I always see it in my local wine shop, but for some reason I’m just not interested at even picking up a bottle.
Thank you! Yes, the style is quite different now.
Im hesitant to buy any 2020 vintahe from Napa. Ive heard The fires in 2020 had a negative effect on that years vintage.
Completely agree with you. I have a Napa vintage analysis video and recommend avoiding generally. There are some specific situations where the wines are okay, but for the average consumer it is difficult to make that determination.
It's so sad what has happened to this wine - I've had bottles from the early 90's that I thought were amazing...yet my wife and I poured a 2014 down the drain...just horrendous.
Yes, older vintages are still showing so well! Such a totally different style now.
I wanted to try this wine I seen it for 75.00. Was going to treat myself a bottle for my birthday. But after seeing the reviews l’m not to sure now.
Not trying to discourage anyone. Was just trying to give a fair assessment. I have heard the new 21 vintage is better. I believe that since I think smoke impacted 20 based on my tasting evaluation.
It went up to 80
Chuck Wagner's wines are not my style. I don't like over the top fruit and oak. I definitely have an old-world palate. But I found a 04 Caymus Cabernet in my cellar, so I'll have to try it. I am no longer buying CA cabernets due to my age and my excessive Bordeaux collection.
Thanks very much for weighing in. By 04 the style had started to shift, but i don’t think it was to the point it is today.
Statutory grape. Hard to drink 2020. I know you said pop and pour but it violates our 5 years or older rule.😂
Ha! Yes I’m all in favor of aged wines and enjoy most Napa wines I open with at least 7-8 years. I’m not sure this one gets better with age though. Given the relatively low acid and it’s tannin profile, I think it may not be the best candidate for aging.
@Attorney Somm Phelps and spottswood, aging in my cellar Have one Caymus 2017. I probably should drink it soon.
I haven't seen the words Mega Purple mentioned anywhere here. That's the main criticism of the wine amongst many people.
It’s part of the intervention discussed in the video. There are several references to it in the corresponding community post.
Had 1997 caymus about 6 months ago. It was beautiful. Had 2018 a month ago.... was terrible. Flavor profile was way off and or way too young to drink.
Definitely a much different style back in the 1990s. I have enjoyed a few Caymus SS from the 90s in the past 6-7 months too. 👍🍷
@@AttorneySomm after having the regular 97 caymus cab... I definitely don't feel the need to pay double for special selection thats for sure. What would be an interesting comparison would be a 16 18 20 vertical of caymus to see of a few years improves it..and if it starts to end up more in your wheelhouse 😉
@@matthewolson8875 Thanks! I would be happy to try it with some age on it. May not be as easy to locate though. My LWS barely had any 2020. It moves!
I’ll take Jarvis over Caymus Special Selection.
Thank you for weighing in! 👍🍷
They're many napa valley wine that taste like caymus that are quarter of the price what caymus is charging. Chain restaurants are usually not good.
Thank you! I don’t see too many Napa Cabs for $20 these days. Even Sauvignon Blanc is close to $40 some places. But I agree you can get a bottle of comparable quality for a much lower price.
I vaguely remember that caymus released their vintage 2018 way ahead of others back in 2019. Had a tasting done in the vineyard… that wine has no soul. It was absolutely one of the worst napa cab i had.
Thanks for weighing in. The lacking soul comment was a common refrain in response to my polls.
I absolutely loathe sweet wines. So judging by the comments I've read, think I should skip Caymus.
Yes, you would not enjoy Caymus then.
Caymus is for people that don't drink wine. The Special Select is well crafted and totally the opposite of the baby Caymus. I heard from a Chef from California that 20% of the fruit comes from CHINA? is that true?
Thanks for weighing in. By law, they can call it Napa Valley Cabernet with 75% of the fruit being Cabernet from Napa. The rest can come from elsewhere. But there are plenty of sources for less expensive Cabernet in places like Suisun Valley (where the winery has a big presence), Lake County and even Happy Canyon, Santa Barbara. So I would be surprised if they obtained fruit from China. But the company does not disclose a lot of information about the details of its winemaking . . .
Always considered this wine as a starter wine. Someone who doesn’t drink wine, with a palette who enjoys richer food notes, would gravitate to adopting the flavour notes of the Caymus. Not a fan of this wine anymore, and probably will not ever be. Good review on your behalf though. 👍
Thanks very much! I agree with your assessment. 👍🍷
You can buy two fantastic bottles of Riesling for $80 😁
Very true! 👍🍷
Its ridiculously over priced plonk... I've had a lot of the 1980s vintages at 20 years old or so and mostly they didn't lay down well and were over the hill, I will say some vintages I've had young were delicious 2007 special selection comes to mind 2004 and 05 were decent, seems like around the 2012 onwards they went off the deep end with richness and sweetness.. super ripe heavily extracted lots of residual sugar and oak and a lot of folks say mega purple .. of course there are 100s of better labels for value and complexity in the neighborhood.
Thanks for weighing in.
There is rumors the 2020 on is not original estate grapes, as an avid drinker the new stuff doesn’t make sense.. way too many bottle for what their vintage can create and it does NOT taste like caymus .. the new stuff does NOT taste like caymus
They source lots of fruit for the wine. In 20 they probably needed to find new sources due to the fires. I still thought I detected snake taking when I tasted it. Is 21 better? I haven’t tried it yet.
@@AttorneySomm 2020-2021 bottles do not taste like the caymus we know . zero body , min complexity- calling it “young” is not an acceptable excuse in my opinion to such a classic landmark- It’s the outlet version selling a the real deal.. major disappointment
@@alanvale101 Thank you. So 2019 was the last typical vintage based on your experience?
Overprice Plonk!
Thanks for weighing in! There are recommendations at the end.
@@AttorneySomm I really love that you do drink wine while testing… Don’t abuse wine and spit .
@@sanjaypatelmd4669 Thanks! At large events I do spit out of necessity, but I definitely spit less than most.
@@AttorneySomm My kind of a guy! Wine can not be abused… Must be enjoyed!
@@sanjaypatelmd4669 I like how you think!
Consistently bad.. marmelade wine.. no character, just sweet and fat. Personally, I think a lot of people just say its good, because they think its supposed to be.
Caymus is good for $90 ...
Thanks for weighing in!
Did you say eXpresso????
Yes that’s a common descriptor for wine with with new oak maturation.
Ah you’re just giving me a hard time about a potential mispronunciation. Did that one 15 months ago so don’t remember.
Not a fan..great name for flat wine.
Thanks for weighing in! 👍🍷
Since original owners has died kids start doing lots of weird things, bringing frozen fruit from South America for example…. Also their older vintages would not have consistently before and now they do, what would that tell you? Their tasting room is overpriced and run as buffet conviert belt. On the menu no Napa wine when I went there 😂
Thanks! I have heard rumors about that, but didn’t see anything definitive so didn’t want to mention it. But as I tasted it, I did think it was a lot like some Argentina wine from a few years ago before they cut back on new oak. That would also help with the smoke issue for 2020. I’m still a big fan of the 1990s SS. Such outstanding wines!
To much oak
To sweet
Not good
Thanks for weighing in. 👍🍷
👏👏👏🍷😋🙏🙏🙏
Thank you kindly! Cheers!
But my homemade wine is great 😅
Nice! 😅