Snake Eye hit was too hard, deck variants didnt even have meaningful tops anymore. Everything else didnt even change the format. Banlist was one of the worst we could have gotten.
I liked Original existing as a bandaid for other decks (R-ACE, noids, etc) to tech into, so I’m a little sad OSS got the axe over stuff like wanted or flamberge
Colossus should have went the opposite direction. It's like what you were saying, just because a card is fine doesn't mean it's fun. Colossus is just Deck Lockdown that anyone overlaying two Level 4 monsters can access from their Extra Deck. Also +1 for a Shifter ban.
I don't dislike Ryzeal and Maliss, I dislike how Konami knows how to make their players drop over a grand every 3-6 months while also making the previous grand i spent just evaporate with little to resale because of how they went about banning.
Do you want Konami not to banned cards because you guy spend a lot of money on it? Why should they cared how much money you spent when banning cards? Do you wants ygo to be a collecting, resell cards game like mtg or an actual card game?
Josh made a great point, unhealthy decks should be hit REGARDLESS of their results. No one should be FTKd at locals even if it only works 20% of the time.
100% agree. The decks don't need to be in top 8 to be considered detrimental or toxic. Gimmick puppet ftk wouldn't need to place high and still needed to take the ftk part out so ppl don't feel cheated out playing cuz they never got a chance to play against them
6:57 as someone who brought a not even tier deck at YCS Bologna (insect pile) and tried to do everything to make it work in that format I totally subscribe to what Josh was saying. I'm not new at bringing rogue decks to big tournaments but preparing for THAT specific tournament have been one of the most frustrating and unfun experience I had in this game. In the end it kinda payed out (I missed day 2 for 2 points) but after that I felt the need to go into a long break until at least February.
I'm in burnout from yugioh so I hust decided to take some time away from the game to recharge and come back after suda. Is this being a whimp? Just wanting to take a break from a hobby when in burnout from it?
I disliked this banlist despite the fact that I'm on-board with your sentiment, specifically because: 1. OSS was the wrong card to hit to deal with Snake-Eye. It should have been Flamberge instead, so decks like Rescue-ACE and Fire King can continue to run the Sinful Spoils cards as an engine and compete at the rogue level. 2. The TCG is lagging behind other formats as far as some aspects of their banlist. The two Dangers to 2, for instance, is a total joke, while both other formats have addressed Shifter in at least some way, which is the card that would allow the new top 2 decks to be "gatekeepy" to anything else that tries to challenge their spots in the meta.
Honestly as much as I like Rescue Ace and Fire Kings on their own, seeing Snake Eyes literally everywhere with nothing new whatsoever was genuinely tiresome at this point. At least with Ryzeal there's a bit more counterplay or variety. Maliss too, even if I personally dislike the deck. Might be me but I don't see the appeal of having to deal with snake eyes so dang often, even in locals. It's stockholm syndrome at its purest form. If they did something different each time? Sure. But nope. Good riddance to OSS. I'd argue they should've also hit Diabellstar but I digress.
Diabellstar was never the problem seeing how oss is already affecting fire decks it was never wanted or diabellstar that really broke anything @@AverageRunickEnjoyer
@@zarock61 I know but if she gets limited I'll be able to finally build my azamina sinful spoils deck because her price will lower down further LOL In all honesty yes, OSS was definitely the issue. That's why I didn't elaborate further on Diabellstar, it's a personal opinion because it's tiring to see it everywhere. At least Snake Eyes is bearable now with everything that's happened to it. Flamberge isn't the issue like most tend to say either, even if his graveyard effect is pretty good for recycling. Really hope they could've done it sooner, but as far as Konami banlists go, this is peak.
I’m gonna play devil’s advocate here and say that banning OSS was 100% totally unnecessary. After the September banlist, SE was brought down to a level where it was fine. Even with the Azamina cards. It wasn’t oppressive at all and kind of struggled to make top 16 and top 8. But I understand why they did it. And I also agree with what Josh said. Even though SE wasn't oppressive and definitely wasn't as popular as it used to be, it's probably better for the game overall that it's not playable anymore.
Competitively I'm sure Ryzeal meta will be quite healthy, especially compared to the previous meta. But viewers will get bored quickly after watching 9 of 11 or 12 swiss rounds being mirrors or Ryzeal versus Maliss. Unless the games themselves are more back and forth, for sure, and this time we won't struggle to understand what is going on with the chain link... Except Cross interactions lol
I got no hate for Ryzeal or Maliss, and I think the hits are warranted, if a little late, but I still think this is a product selling move more than a game balancing move, and that's a little saddening. Often after a banlist hits I think, "wow, people who didn't want to play that card must be feeling silly about now". I don't feel that way about Phantom or OSS; instead I feel like people oughta play Shifter while it's still at 3. I like when a banlist feels like an answers key for the previous format, and this one was not it.
Initial reactions is always fun but a more collected take a few days after is so appreciated! Take the MD list as an example, insane, what unbans! But after finishing my monthly climb… I don’t care. I was on Horcust and maybe made Mermaid twice, ban it again if you will, it’s not needed. Had you asked me a week prior I would’ve said that at least Mermaid would never come back, so very appreciated to hear takes that aren’t fresh out of the oven.
Unfortunately tenpai was the only meta deck that had affordable engine, so that sucks. Gotta love every meta yugioh deck costing 3-5x that of other tcgs (on average ofc)
I always prefer you to have a good think anyways. I dunno if that gets more or less views, but people come to strong players for their thoughts, and if we get your gut reaction we wont nescessarily get the best quality keep up the awesome work
The problem is that these would have been good hits back on the April list but they waited until far too late and none of the affected decks were represented in the top cut of the YCS which means more powerful decks have entered the format but everything else has been powered down significantly to the point where even though the power level is slightly lower, the same problem of just a couple decks running rampant will still exist. Phantom to 1 and either Chandra or Kaimen to 1 would’ve been enough to balance the game, but the problem is that people are seeing this list wasn’t meant for balance but to line Mr Konami pockets
It's because some people are able to see a bigger picture instead of just of they personnal tast on the moment. Let me explain my point : - Puppet and Jowgen are good ban, but came way to late since Branded and Puppet lock aren't played anymore in the meta. Why the problem wasn't addressed before (Spoiler : They waited Sanctifire reprint to finally do it instead of when it was meta - Oss seem good because it hit Snake Eyes, but it's also a choice that hurt of lot of rogue deck or non-problematic deck that liked the fire wanted engine. It's even worse when you take account that the Wanted engine just became cheap with RA3, meaning budget player had the chance to use it only during one month. Of all the choice they could take for Snake Eyes, they chose the one that looked more like a middle finger to the player when the could have hit the deck in an another way. - Tenpai was a very frustrated deck to face and seing that deck being hit is cool, but it's funny to see that of all the deck that was eligible to an hit, the one they choose to destroy was the more budget one. - An another thing that bother me is the fact that they also slow as hell when it come to unhit : All thcard that have been unlimited and semi limited are card that could have come to three since last year. They also give US back only one copy of Barrage and no Drident when Master duel show us that those could been unban since a moment now. To resume : a banlist that seem good on the surface but that have once again a questionnable design philosophy
OSS banned is not a good change imo, snake eyes deserved a hit but it didn’t deserve to be completely killed off even as an engine now that it finally became affordable. They should have banned Flamberge instead, that way the sinful spoils cards remain an engine for rogue decks like rescue ace or fire king that need it to be competitive. But instead they said nah we don’t want the meta to be affordable, buy ryzeal and malice instead.
I don't get this anger for why they should not have killed snake eyes when everyone was asking for their head. And now everyone is going "poor budget players. they're collateral damage damage for the snake eyes hit and now can't play the engine anymore." The same story for every engine card that gets hit ever. I'm surprised about how many people were upset at the OSS ban.
Yubel is actually going to cook People having less handtraps for the "ryzeal format" will make Yubel more prevalent, and even make the one copy of Phantom less of an issue. One less copy of Phantom also means they have a bit more extra deck space, meaning more options. And they will still summon it every single game, it's just that they probably won't make another one after using it. Yet, Rage can bring phantom back to the ED so it's all pointless In this format with less handtraps Yubel is genuinely the strongest deck in there
@@thearsalandombgaming and they even brought back opening of the spirit gates to 3, when I heard that I assumed the hits were going to be harder, guess it didn't happened.
I generally agree that Ryzeal is fun to play against and that it's a better matchup for many Rogue decks. I actually don't think Tenpai is dead, we've been testing Lucas Sacco's Kashtira version and it's been doing very well vs both Ryzeal and Maliss. I also agree with you that Yubel is likely not dead either. And this is where my frustration is. I think Snake-Eyes is completely dead, and I will concede that my disappointment is probably biased as a Snake-Eyes player. I feel the OSS ban was too harsh - I would have much rather Flamberge banned and/or Wanted/Diabellestar to 1. But the other reason I feel frustrated is that it feels like a slap in the face to the budget players that finally got a chance to play Snake-Eye decks with more access to the expensive cards with the tins and Rarity Collection. This ban feels like it also invalidates ROTA because the Azamina cards are now useless, and Fire Kings lose a lot of consistency so it feels like Ulcanix isn't even enough to save the deck. Fuwalos feels like the only reason to buy that pack. Diabellestar is an ultimate rare in the newest OTS pack and now it feels like a shoddy prize to doing well at a locals. The OSS ban hit a lot of really cool decks - many of which were being played at my local game store - like Infernoid, Adventure Synchron, Infernoble, Rescue-ACE. I'm sad because my primary deck got destroyed but I'm even sadder seeing my local community be affected negatively.
Tenpai might see some play as an engine in dragon rulers/dragonmaids post support and thats about it. Theres not enough cards legal for it to be its own deck anymore
Josh even pretended Air Lifter to 3 matters. Ah, yes, the deck now has one starter at 3... a deck with 3 starters sounds great! /s They killed OSS for business decision reasons only. Josh has expressed it before, but he generally holds the opinion that diverse formats are bad because it is harder to prepare for. He seems to want little to no deck diversity & dislikes fire probably because it is a toolbox deck of sorts & actually can play against his preferred style of play, which is out resourcing the opponent so they can't possibly win. Just listen to how he talks about Snake-Eyes & Yubel. He says they're basically the same thing, which is laughably inaccurate. He doesn't address OSS killing so many other decks because it benefits him to do so.
@@kaikawasumiyou said it, he seems a little hypocryte since he enjoys Spright with starter at 3, S Elf summon back i: p or toadally awesome, monsters that are negates red, carrot and plus 3 every turn banishing your opponent deck with the "fair playstyle" Runick. SE is a fair deck than Spright and Tearlaments with kelbek , herald orange, Elf who literally breaks the deck( an spright card, interesting, hah) i dont care the oss hit even when i am a SE Fire king player but i would not allow the slide of being hypocryte with Yubel and SE, that makes healthy boards than Spright
Lets consider the fact Josh didnt deep dive into Maliss in this conversation (he already did in the past, so its not necessary). I think Ryzeal is fine, Maliss is fine (for now), for me this is a repeat of POTE format when Spright/Tear showed up. Both incredibly strong decks, but not unbeatable (it might get worse later on, but thats another discussion for another time).
I am curious how SE would have actually done if it was properly represented. Same as Yubel. I think we would have a pretty diverse format. I think Ryzeal and Malice are actually pretty good counters to SE and Yubel. It may not be better than those decks but Ryzeal can play 20 handtraps. Malice can play shifter. While Ryzeal isn't really affected by shifter.
When I checked the viewer count of the YCS stream around the end of the finals set, there were 20,000 people watching. Definitely something they should have been doing this whole time, and they'll probably do it again in the future because of this.
@@UBUB101 No, you are going to still handtrap spam in your deck is my point. You dont need 23 handtraps to beat them, you are going to still play that many because you want to see you handtraps as much as possible. These decks only need 1 card to get going, so it only makes sense. Im not saying to ban handtraps btw, im just saying the meta hasnt really changed that much.
Congratulations on your top cut finish i also enjoyed playing in the main event as well all my opponents enjoyed me playing a relic of a bygone era invoked dogmatika unfortunately due to my health issues i did not do as much testing as I would have liked but my high point of the event was beating the only malice player in my run and unfortunately due to my disability issues I could not move around to well and meet my favorite content creators like you hopefully as i continue to lose weight and my medical team find the source of my back issues i will be retiring to Edison as i need a less stressful game and i will maybe pop up once in a while to cause chaos but i really enjoyed playing my "love letter" to the game I have played for the last 20+ years at what i perceived its highest level advanced and my next creation will be Ryzeal Evilswarm but that's for the future
All I need is new spellbook support to complement the Druler support, and the neo2013 v neoTOSS format will be the best Christmas gift I'll get this year!
I had my last locals where I got to face two Ryzeal decks and the first time ever facing the deck was a lot of fun. It was a nice grindy 3 game match. I’ve always hated dueling against Yubel and Snake Eyes. As a Tenpai player, it’s actually fun having restrictions and finding ways to make the deck work. This is the first format I play a deck that gets hit on the ban list and now it’s become fun finding new ways to make a deck work. This is a fun format until I OTK my opponent with Tenpai and then it feels like overkill. I’m having fun but I feel bad when my opponent doesn’t look like they’re having fun because I broke their board with 2-3 spells and then full combo’d into an OTK. But, hey, they can play a better deck. That’s what I did.
the argument for OSS being bad in the future can literally be made for every meta card, the fact that if you get ashed you would be negative 2 was enough for that engine to lose tract
I'm gonna disagree here. Banning oss was a good thing and they should've did that last banlist instead of hitting poplar. IMO as a SE player, I think oss was a problem since it was a bridge to so many fire decks and if u got stuck on 1 half of your deck, u just oss into the other part and continue. That was a problem. With oss gone, poplar isn't searching anything crazy.
@@vampireguy92 so many fire decks? mention 1 of those SO MANY besides snake eyes that would be meta, in your own words what you are saying is basically that they should've banned poplar and that snake eyes were the problem not OSS
@polodoskyz SEFK, SERA, SEFS all were really good decks thanks to OSS being thrown in there and making them play through whatever the opponent threw at them. I'd rather have OSS be banned and stop other decks from abusing it, then have my poplar or flamberg being banned and completely killing SE. Those fire decks will now be a Rouge tire deck and still able to compete, just not at the top tier events with the new stuff
in less than 2 months blue eyes structure deck is a out of the gate tier 2/1 contender with the third best results in the ocg behind maliss (tied with maliss almost) and ryzeal
So how long will it takes for people to "Get sick and tired" of Ryzeal and Maliss so we can go full cycle again? Also 4:30 funny how you can say that with a straight face after what they did to Gimmic Puppet
Ryzeal isn't really that much of an issue, nor is Maliss. As a rogue player I've never competed with anything tier 2 or above. That's just my choice in how I want to play Yugioh comp. I have my reasons. Anyways, there will always be best decks. That's nothing new to me. I can beat Ryzeal and Maliss players by outplaying them with fricking Speedroid. But you know what I'll never beat unless I draw the out? Fuwalos. That card is cringe and I wish Konami would have thought that card's design through more.
I'm 100% a lot of what has been said here will be said again in 3 or 4 months.. like won't be said of xxxx deck..saying ban stuff or killing a deck won't solve anything you just make it worse for ppl and make company make more greedy actions .. btw no hate to anyone who agrees to that ofc 👀🖐🏻
Ryzeal feels like kashtira with Arise-heart but with less of the toxic elements. I was able to all but sweep the matchup in its prime with PUNK because building to beat Arise-heart was such a clear and easy target to hit. I'm hoping this format ends up being similar, and rogue decks can reliably find ways around the Detonator to still put up results.
Detonator just being a not OPT or even once per chain card is toxic and it makes so many cards and decks feel so bad into it. I genuinely don’t like it and Maliss is even more obnoxious. Trying to prep into the 2 as the 2 best decks when they play totally differently and both feel unfun to play against is annoying
Funny to note with oss banned finally. They can and probably will unhit ash and poplar. In fine with Yubel being playable with 1 phantom. Personally i had fun playing againt it after the hit to lacrima and apo the only annoying thing was the multiple phantoms that felt like too much. Classic yugioh players cant have a deck be good for more than a weekend without demanding hits to the new archetype on not only the first banlist but one before we even have more than 1 major event to pull data from. I think the only disappointing thing it that we still have cards on the banlist that shouldnt be like drident but well what can you do i also wish they unhit unchained and purrely
But all those decks are fine. They don't need a SE package to be able to play the Game. They can do well enough on their own without having to rely on the oss stuff
Man I was so tired of seeing people pretend they were playing some rogue deck when half their engine was snake eye. F off and play the real version of your deck.
I don't think Yubel is dead either, but it definitely feels frailer. Now it can't Frame 1 Phantom of Yubel to protect against handtraps while also using it for extension and keeping one for next turn. And with the best deck still being able to jam a ton of handtraps and its boss monster directly countering its two biggest playmakers in Throne and Pain, I think it's going to be a matter of players deciding if all of those hoops are worth going for and not a matter of if the deck is still strong. It definitely IS still strong, the endboard is basically the same, but the work to get to it is much weirder.
What's frustrating is that Tenpai, toxic as it is, was the only deck not gate kept by price (outside of the mulcharmys but that's every deck atm). And the deck was only legal, with all of its support, for a few months. I should have longer with my deck before it becomes unplayable . And I'm not saying don't hit the deck, but killing it by putting three necessary cards to one is not a healthy way to balance the game. This makes players cautious to build new decks because, hey if it starts doing well or gets a wave of super strong support, my investment in this deck is worthless. I have to build a new deck I might not be able to afford and I only got to play my cheaper meta relevant deck for like 4 months.
Just ban the effing poplar, Flam or something, don't invalidate tons of other fire decks that use Diabellstar engine, what a stupid ass ban and obvious way to sell new cards.
All those fire decks are still playable and without OSS they’re able to keep their own unique identity instead of just becoming Diabellstar/Azamina fire piles. Not to mention cards like Impulse and Promethean Princess still being around as amazing support pieces unique to those decks.
@@Joravil98The problem is that Snakes was what allowed pretty much every fire deck (that wasn’t exactly Tenpai) to BE competitive in the first place over this year. Plus, playing a splashable engine that has synergy with your deck doesn’t at all detract from a deck’s character. You still have that original engine that dictates how your board works into certain match ups or just specific cards. If you want to COMPETE, Promethean + Impulse just isn’t enough. I’d be WILLING to note Salads as an exception, but the fact that Salads did well is simply strange, especially pre-CRBR, and likely VERY pilot dependent with making specific meta calls for the exact event. I personally rather enjoy Snake-Eye as an engine, I think how it works is really cool. That being said, banning Flamberge would have let other fire decks compete by giving them more reasonable access to different ED monsters more easily, and not creating a situation where it’s physically impossible to play the game. It would kill Snakes as an independent strategy but still allow the cards to exist in a game where popping your opponent’s Flamberge to give them nigh infinite extension and follow up just isn’t possible, while also making a Promethean line a big commitment.
Nothing was lamer than seeing people telling you they play fire kings or rescue ace only for them to launch into a 10 minute snake eye combo. You aren't a real fire king player.
Worst thing about Ryzeals and Malice popularity is that they kill the most fun Lab build aka SEC(s)Lab aka MathLab since it's just not worth the build around for their awkward lvl/rank 4 and link spam and furniture builds ED just works better in meta. Oh well at least matchups are generally OK against them.
Yubel ist zu 100% ein FTK-Deck. Kollege und ich haben mit der normalen Startkombo mehrere FTK Decks gebaut und dagegen kommst du einfach nicht an. Entweder du gehst First und FTKst zu 100%, oder du gehst 2nd und spielst einfach dein Yubel Zeug in den Gegner rein. Kein Problem.
Of course the dude that plays only fiendsmith doesn’t think it’s unhealthy for the game. Infinite grind game that end on Omni or ss negate with 0 commitment
Idk the way you phrased that comment made fiendsmith sound very manageable. Playing against a grind game deck vs yubel or snakeye sounds wayyy more fun. Coming from MD playing against those two with less than 3 hand traps is insta ff
From a ryzeal player : the deck is good but it's one of the braindead decks which is easy to learn and EASIER TO STOP but the splashability is the greatest aspect a rank 4 xyz deck can have
I agree with the "Hit problematic decks" thing you talked about, but I don't think Konami does a good job at it. I don't think OSS being banned kills Snake Eyes at all, Jowgen and Puppet is fine, but why not hit Sanctifire? It's like when they limited Spirited Gates to hit Yubel instead of actually hitting the Yubel cards. They're too soft on these kind of decks 90% of the time
Kinda would have preferred a Flamberge ban, but OSS is a pretty insanely generic card for what it is, and it made Diabellstar so powerful with how the Azamina cards interact with it, it's not a horrible hit by any means
@@WoodsRunner god ur a yap demon , im talking in general, shit is just annoying at this point. & people like you excited to go against the next 1000$ deck
@ it sounds like you’re just angry at the game and justify any cheaper deck or long-standing deck even if it is super frustrating to play against or outstays it’s welcome
I’ll be honest even if it makes me look like an idiot, isn’t maliss pretty similar in they build a somewhat unbreakable (or even if its broke they have infinite follow up) and their deck is like a bunch of one card starters and a crap ton of nonengine? Or is the difference in their power ceiling compared to snake eyes and yubel?
The ceiling for Maliss is CONSIDERABLY lower than Snakes or Yubel, and is much easier to prevent. Maliss doesn’t HAVE natural steps to insulate from Nib AND get full combo. You either play into Nib and probably lose, or you play around it and try to create a board that works whether it forces the Nib or not. Also Lancea exists. Even a well built Maliss board isn’t NEARLY as tough to crack as Snakes or especially Yubel. It’s hard, sure. Requires knowledge of the deck and how it works to do it efficiently. BUT, it’s still very breakable. Fun fact, the end boards of Ryzeal AND Maliss, are both susceptible to board breakers. Ofc, you need 2 to break Maliss, bc of the Desavewurm that Terahertz bins. HOWEVER, the second one will usually resolve. Also, Terahertz will have its ATK reset every time it is negated for a turn.
@@IcyWeissy don't listen to the above, it's just an illusion similarly to the Mathmech board (being weak at a first sight). A board will not win you the game in 2024, follow-up + interruption from everywhere + non-engine space will. While Maliss doesn't offer the raw omni negates Yubel does, it has a potential double D.D Crow (you want to banish at least 1 of your cards) that is devastating and would put Snakes out of the game even without the banlist. Same applies to the Fiendsmith engine being forced to run multiples in the extra (thus severely limiting their options) between Unicorn and White Binder. On top of the 2 non-target banishes we get the Firewall package that offers a S/T negate safe in the GY, along with removal (packbit) or negation (aggregator) or simply the option to dodge stuff using an IP effect from the GY (code of soul). This means even a DRNM or Droplet would be worthless, while a deck like Tenpai (before the banlist) would need specifically Duster or Storm (for backrow) to turn off the engine, making the deck even less susceptible to Raigeki/Droplet. Then if we ignore the Firewall engine we also have Shifter that already makes Yubel/Snake useless, while Maliss can go toe to toe with other Shifter decks fairly easily. But even here, the real benefit of Maliss is their draw power. Drawing 3 cards thanks to their combo then another one on the opponent's turn gives you 4 opportunities to grab non-engine, on top of having 1 card combos, in a deck with easily 18 handtraps. This combines the advantages of Centurion (draw power/shifter) with the end board of pre-banned Snakes (no hard negates but solid board) while having the same number of 1 card combos to Yubel (but not losing on Droll)
@@IcyWeissy About Ryzeal, i won't get into detail since they have the spotlight currently, but their card quality is even better than Snakes or Yubel because EVERYTHING is playable at any sequence without including bricks. The fact everything works interchangeably as a starter/extender is the real strength of the deck, with the amount of non-engine + use of shifter (or playing under shifter) being the cherry on top. Both new decks focused on incredible card quality and very tight engines, so you should take that into account despite the "weaker" boards. They just require different non-engine to counter them (for example Belle is exceptional into Maliss for your turn going second)
Yubel got slap on the wrist, budget deck got murdered. Yes Tenpai is a stupid ftk deck, no one really denies that. My problem is that it was about the only good budget deck in years taking names in the meta. Yes, its still budget if you need 3 fuwaross or the other mulcharmie cause realistically you need them ANYWAY.
I've had 3 players stop coming to locals after the azamina cards dropped because they are just that sick of playing against the deck. the deck is over a year old. most decks have a lifespan of around 9 months before getting significant hits. if you invested into the deck at this point expecting it to be around forever that's on you. but i personally am very happy that this boring, 1 card starter, build a board bullshit is gone. i have zero empathy for anyone upset that snake-eye is dead.
ngl late banlist video that focused on thoughtful analysis rather than kneejerk reactions...? I like it I think in 4 or 5 months people will start getting tired of ryzeal and/or maliss though^^
Wouldn't it be nice if most if those hits had been done on time? Wouldn't it be good if banlists did more than satiate Komoney's greedy abuses? Wouldn't it be great if us, the playerbase, could something about it?
Leave it to Josh to giive the most boring basic ass TCG player take. Banning OSS and cutting off all FIRE decks from their most meaningful modern support and killing their competitive viability is so incredibly scummy. So glad I only play Master Duel and have nothing to do with this shit format.
Sure 1 Boardbreaker with 5 engine cards not helping against the old Meta, you need 6 engine cards and turn 20 to stop them, bc they are out of deck cards 😂
>You can beat ryzeal with 1 board breaker and some engine. If it was actually that easy in practice it wouldn't have 14x the representation of snake eyes lol.
He beat every Ryzeal he faced, so he must know it better than someone looking at a misleading piechart. Ryzeal is overpopular cuz people are sick of SE and don't want to play it anymore, and they all flock to a cool new toy and super easy braindead deck like Ryzeal, but Ryzeal is nowhere near that good, it is infact beatable like that, but the sheer number of players used it is the reason is has that many top
@@lhv2k And Trif won with Ryzeal, negating your entire point. People don't just netdeck, people do learn and playtest the deck, and Joshua isn't the only pros.
snake eye had higher representation than ryzeal before banlist hits. This is copium. This snake eye player salt is hilarious to watch, you played a deck that was alone in tier 1 for months and now you suddenly care about balance.
The OSS hit is so dumb. They didn't need to hit snake eye's, and they for sure didn't need to kill it, and if they were gonna kill it why hit OSS thsts the 1 card that should not have been hit, its ridiculous
@@vampireguy92Nah Snakes as its own deck is UBER dead. Diabellstar and Wanted are no longer starters, Mu Rcielago is no longer a starter, the Azamina cards do nothing for the deck now, OSS being gone means that Poplar ALSO is not a starter anymore. Even with Snash to 3 and a full playset of Bonfire that’s only 6 starters which isn’t enough AT ALL.
zero fiendsmith hit that is splashed everywhere.. zero kashtira hit which is splashed everywhere... oh wait they are both engines that the 2 new top decks use so of course wouldn't be touched eh? yubel getting back an insane card but losing 1 phantom wow what a hit eh... snake eyes is very much still playable alongside azamina with cards such as cross-sheep but instead diabellstar engine is now dead for every other fire deck (fire kings, r-ace, infernoid, infernoble even) that had that extra bit of push against a meta that plays 24 HTs before siding in mulcharmies but sure amazing banlist eh.. funny stuff coming from a guy that constantly talks about how he hates HTs wars, how much snake-eyes and yubel have killed interactive games and now plays fiendsmith decks with 20+ HTs and their stupidly endless grind game and will probably play ryzeal that runs the same amount with no care
Snake gone is a nuthing burger, just another generic go first infinite 1 card combo deck, but Tenpai was a legit go 2nd deck ... and now the game is back to good ol dice roll fest ... Smh. Not to mention that Tenpai had a lower skill ceiling, which is what enraged most nerds, that someone who doesn't put as much time in the game is fully capable of stomping their ego.
deleting archetypes isnt the way to do "hits". Turns meta into, expensive archetypes, delete decks, sell new expensive archetypes. At least give it a format to see how the new decks shape tournaments before removing options. TCG is the only format that still does deck killing hits. I know Josh has great deal of experience in the game, but he seems to fall into the new toy syndrome quite hard
What would you change about the list or is it perfect as is?
Unban Circular 🗣
Snake Eye hit was too hard, deck variants didnt even have meaningful tops anymore.
Everything else didnt even change the format.
Banlist was one of the worst we could have gotten.
I liked Original existing as a bandaid for other decks (R-ACE, noids, etc) to tech into, so I’m a little sad OSS got the axe over stuff like wanted or flamberge
Shifter and Rollback bans.
Colossus should have went the opposite direction. It's like what you were saying, just because a card is fine doesn't mean it's fun. Colossus is just Deck Lockdown that anyone overlaying two Level 4 monsters can access from their Extra Deck.
Also +1 for a Shifter ban.
I don't dislike Ryzeal and Maliss, I dislike how Konami knows how to make their players drop over a grand every 3-6 months while also making the previous grand i spent just evaporate with little to resale because of how they went about banning.
Konami does not make players do anything. Players choose to eat the slop. Konami will not change until people stop
Do you want Konami not to banned cards because you guy spend a lot of money on it? Why should they cared how much money you spent when banning cards? Do you wants ygo to be a collecting, resell cards game like mtg or an actual card game?
@@asdfg5721 why not just have our print styles like the ocg where they don’t have as many expensive cards? That seems fine
Konami doesn't set the market prices. The players do
@NvrPhazed we hate seeing the sweaty nerd brag at locals cause he shilled out money lmao
Josh made a great point, unhealthy decks should be hit REGARDLESS of their results. No one should be FTKd at locals even if it only works 20% of the time.
100% agree. The decks don't need to be in top 8 to be considered detrimental or toxic. Gimmick puppet ftk wouldn't need to place high and still needed to take the ftk part out so ppl don't feel cheated out playing cuz they never got a chance to play against them
@ Exactly, we all want to play going 1st or 2nd, grind for a couple of turns, and that’s it. No FTKs, unbreakable boards, or OTKs.
Yet people scream BASED when seeing exodia...
"Unhealthy" is subjective.
@@kps3252 yeh, konami turned it into a cool deck after years of degenracy. its not fully there yet though as shifter exists
6:57 as someone who brought a not even tier deck at YCS Bologna (insect pile) and tried to do everything to make it work in that format I totally subscribe to what Josh was saying. I'm not new at bringing rogue decks to big tournaments but preparing for THAT specific tournament have been one of the most frustrating and unfun experience I had in this game. In the end it kinda payed out (I missed day 2 for 2 points) but after that I felt the need to go into a long break until at least February.
just don't be a wimp
Fellow insect duelist I salute
@@justawarlord Just don't be a meta sheep.
@@steffeni.6009 It's the opposite of metasheep though, metasheep actually hates diverse meta because you can't just netdeck the best deck.
I'm in burnout from yugioh so I hust decided to take some time away from the game to recharge and come back after suda.
Is this being a whimp? Just wanting to take a break from a hobby when in burnout from it?
I disliked this banlist despite the fact that I'm on-board with your sentiment, specifically because:
1. OSS was the wrong card to hit to deal with Snake-Eye. It should have been Flamberge instead, so decks like Rescue-ACE and Fire King can continue to run the Sinful Spoils cards as an engine and compete at the rogue level.
2. The TCG is lagging behind other formats as far as some aspects of their banlist. The two Dangers to 2, for instance, is a total joke, while both other formats have addressed Shifter in at least some way, which is the card that would allow the new top 2 decks to be "gatekeepy" to anything else that tries to challenge their spots in the meta.
If u think rescue ace and FK can't compete at the Rouge lvl without SE/ss engine, then you're wrong. Both are still good decks without the engine
nah, every fire deck just being snake eye cards with some rescue ace or fire king tech cards added was so lame.
Honestly as much as I like Rescue Ace and Fire Kings on their own, seeing Snake Eyes literally everywhere with nothing new whatsoever was genuinely tiresome at this point.
At least with Ryzeal there's a bit more counterplay or variety. Maliss too, even if I personally dislike the deck.
Might be me but I don't see the appeal of having to deal with snake eyes so dang often, even in locals. It's stockholm syndrome at its purest form.
If they did something different each time? Sure. But nope.
Good riddance to OSS. I'd argue they should've also hit Diabellstar but I digress.
Diabellstar was never the problem seeing how oss is already affecting fire decks it was never wanted or diabellstar that really broke anything @@AverageRunickEnjoyer
@@zarock61 I know but if she gets limited I'll be able to finally build my azamina sinful spoils deck because her price will lower down further LOL
In all honesty yes, OSS was definitely the issue. That's why I didn't elaborate further on Diabellstar, it's a personal opinion because it's tiring to see it everywhere.
At least Snake Eyes is bearable now with everything that's happened to it. Flamberge isn't the issue like most tend to say either, even if his graveyard effect is pretty good for recycling.
Really hope they could've done it sooner, but as far as Konami banlists go, this is peak.
I’m gonna play devil’s advocate here and say that banning OSS was 100% totally unnecessary. After the September banlist, SE was brought down to a level where it was fine. Even with the Azamina cards. It wasn’t oppressive at all and kind of struggled to make top 16 and top 8.
But I understand why they did it. And I also agree with what Josh said. Even though SE wasn't oppressive and definitely wasn't as popular as it used to be, it's probably better for the game overall that it's not playable anymore.
Competitively I'm sure Ryzeal meta will be quite healthy, especially compared to the previous meta. But viewers will get bored quickly after watching 9 of 11 or 12 swiss rounds being mirrors or Ryzeal versus Maliss. Unless the games themselves are more back and forth, for sure, and this time we won't struggle to understand what is going on with the chain link... Except Cross interactions lol
Hey, two more months until Blue-Eyes joins the Battle. That's all I can think of as a bigger change to the format.
I think the problem with Ryzeal is that, if we look at OCg Lists, it will be like 30 Non engine so just two players throwing handtraps at each other.
Will gimmick puppet rise up?
I got no hate for Ryzeal or Maliss, and I think the hits are warranted, if a little late, but I still think this is a product selling move more than a game balancing move, and that's a little saddening. Often after a banlist hits I think, "wow, people who didn't want to play that card must be feeling silly about now". I don't feel that way about Phantom or OSS; instead I feel like people oughta play Shifter while it's still at 3. I like when a banlist feels like an answers key for the previous format, and this one was not it.
His Reaction about the New Dragon Rulers will be crazy
Initial reactions is always fun but a more collected take a few days after is so appreciated!
Take the MD list as an example, insane, what unbans! But after finishing my monthly climb… I don’t care. I was on Horcust and maybe made Mermaid twice, ban it again if you will, it’s not needed.
Had you asked me a week prior I would’ve said that at least Mermaid would never come back, so very appreciated to hear takes that aren’t fresh out of the oven.
Unfortunately tenpai was the only meta deck that had affordable engine, so that sucks. Gotta love every meta yugioh deck costing 3-5x that of other tcgs (on average ofc)
I always prefer you to have a good think anyways. I dunno if that gets more or less views, but people come to strong players for their thoughts, and if we get your gut reaction we wont nescessarily get the best quality
keep up the awesome work
Well said
People are too negative about ban lists sometimes. If you look at every change on the list they are all good changes.
The problem is that these would have been good hits back on the April list but they waited until far too late and none of the affected decks were represented in the top cut of the YCS which means more powerful decks have entered the format but everything else has been powered down significantly to the point where even though the power level is slightly lower, the same problem of just a couple decks running rampant will still exist. Phantom to 1 and either Chandra or Kaimen to 1 would’ve been enough to balance the game, but the problem is that people are seeing this list wasn’t meant for balance but to line Mr Konami pockets
It's because some people are able to see a bigger picture instead of just of they personnal tast on the moment. Let me explain my point :
- Puppet and Jowgen are good ban, but came way to late since Branded and Puppet lock aren't played anymore in the meta. Why the problem wasn't addressed before (Spoiler : They waited Sanctifire reprint to finally do it instead of when it was meta
- Oss seem good because it hit Snake Eyes, but it's also a choice that hurt of lot of rogue deck or non-problematic deck that liked the fire wanted engine. It's even worse when you take account that the Wanted engine just became cheap with RA3, meaning budget player had the chance to use it only during one month. Of all the choice they could take for Snake Eyes, they chose the one that looked more like a middle finger to the player when the could have hit the deck in an another way.
- Tenpai was a very frustrated deck to face and seing that deck being hit is cool, but it's funny to see that of all the deck that was eligible to an hit, the one they choose to destroy was the more budget one.
- An another thing that bother me is the fact that they also slow as hell when it come to unhit : All thcard that have been unlimited and semi limited are card that could have come to three since last year. They also give US back only one copy of Barrage and no Drident when Master duel show us that those could been unban since a moment now.
To resume : a banlist that seem good on the surface but that have once again a questionnable design philosophy
OSS banned is not a good change imo, snake eyes deserved a hit but it didn’t deserve to be completely killed off even as an engine now that it finally became affordable.
They should have banned Flamberge instead, that way the sinful spoils cards remain an engine for rogue decks like rescue ace or fire king that need it to be competitive.
But instead they said nah we don’t want the meta to be affordable, buy ryzeal and malice instead.
Snake eye was already dying per YCS results, this list was 100% a “buy our new product” list and it’s totally fair to hate it.
I don't get this anger for why they should not have killed snake eyes when everyone was asking for their head. And now everyone is going "poor budget players. they're collateral damage damage for the snake eyes hit and now can't play the engine anymore." The same story for every engine card that gets hit ever. I'm surprised about how many people were upset at the OSS ban.
Yubel is actually going to cook
People having less handtraps for the "ryzeal format" will make Yubel more prevalent, and even make the one copy of Phantom less of an issue. One less copy of Phantom also means they have a bit more extra deck space, meaning more options.
And they will still summon it every single game, it's just that they probably won't make another one after using it.
Yet, Rage can bring phantom back to the ED so it's all pointless
In this format with less handtraps Yubel is genuinely the strongest deck in there
yes, nightmare pain should have been banned
@NinthSettler Also, they kept Yubel relatively unhit unlike snake-eyes and tenpai because Yubel is a lot more expensive than the other two
@@NinthSettlerlmao what a horrible take
Yama should have been banned. Bridges too much for Fiend decks.
@@thearsalandombgaming and they even brought back opening of the spirit gates to 3, when I heard that I assumed the hits were going to be harder, guess it didn't happened.
I generally agree that Ryzeal is fun to play against and that it's a better matchup for many Rogue decks.
I actually don't think Tenpai is dead, we've been testing Lucas Sacco's Kashtira version and it's been doing very well vs both Ryzeal and Maliss.
I also agree with you that Yubel is likely not dead either.
And this is where my frustration is. I think Snake-Eyes is completely dead, and I will concede that my disappointment is probably biased as a Snake-Eyes player. I feel the OSS ban was too harsh - I would have much rather Flamberge banned and/or Wanted/Diabellestar to 1. But the other reason I feel frustrated is that it feels like a slap in the face to the budget players that finally got a chance to play Snake-Eye decks with more access to the expensive cards with the tins and Rarity Collection. This ban feels like it also invalidates ROTA because the Azamina cards are now useless, and Fire Kings lose a lot of consistency so it feels like Ulcanix isn't even enough to save the deck. Fuwalos feels like the only reason to buy that pack. Diabellestar is an ultimate rare in the newest OTS pack and now it feels like a shoddy prize to doing well at a locals. The OSS ban hit a lot of really cool decks - many of which were being played at my local game store - like Infernoid, Adventure Synchron, Infernoble, Rescue-ACE. I'm sad because my primary deck got destroyed but I'm even sadder seeing my local community be affected negatively.
Tenpai might see some play as an engine in dragon rulers/dragonmaids post support and thats about it. Theres not enough cards legal for it to be its own deck anymore
You are correct, OSS ban was too harsh, they should have banned something else like wanted, or flamberge instead
Azamina still has a place in Branded
Josh even pretended Air Lifter to 3 matters. Ah, yes, the deck now has one starter at 3... a deck with 3 starters sounds great! /s
They killed OSS for business decision reasons only. Josh has expressed it before, but he generally holds the opinion that diverse formats are bad because it is harder to prepare for. He seems to want little to no deck diversity & dislikes fire probably because it is a toolbox deck of sorts & actually can play against his preferred style of play, which is out resourcing the opponent so they can't possibly win.
Just listen to how he talks about Snake-Eyes & Yubel. He says they're basically the same thing, which is laughably inaccurate. He doesn't address OSS killing so many other decks because it benefits him to do so.
@@kaikawasumiyou said it, he seems a little hypocryte since he enjoys Spright with starter at 3, S Elf summon back i: p or toadally awesome, monsters that are negates red, carrot and plus 3 every turn banishing your opponent deck with the "fair playstyle" Runick.
SE is a fair deck than Spright and Tearlaments with kelbek , herald orange, Elf who literally breaks the deck( an spright card, interesting, hah)
i dont care the oss hit even when i am a SE Fire king player but i would not allow the slide of being hypocryte with Yubel and SE, that makes healthy boards than Spright
Damn this is one of the quickest main channel turnarounds from stream methinks
Lets consider the fact Josh didnt deep dive into Maliss in this conversation (he already did in the past, so its not necessary). I think Ryzeal is fine, Maliss is fine (for now), for me this is a repeat of POTE format when Spright/Tear showed up. Both incredibly strong decks, but not unbeatable (it might get worse later on, but thats another discussion for another time).
He did right after this on stream, you can check that out if you're interested.
full power spright was actual cancer
tear also left winda + omnis boards that were actual cancer too, even before rulk and tearkash
Full power spright and tear are stronger than ryzeal and mailss. Tear literally wipes the floor with these decks.
I am curious how SE would have actually done if it was properly represented. Same as Yubel. I think we would have a pretty diverse format. I think Ryzeal and Malice are actually pretty good counters to SE and Yubel. It may not be better than those decks but Ryzeal can play 20 handtraps. Malice can play shifter. While Ryzeal isn't really affected by shifter.
When I checked the viewer count of the YCS stream around the end of the finals set, there were 20,000 people watching. Definitely something they should have been doing this whole time, and they'll probably do it again in the future because of this.
I'm just tired of playing 30 hand traps in my deck, with some of those being 120 dollars a copy.
This meta is still the same many handtrap format tbh.
@@stevennguyen1586 you definitly dont need 23+ hts to win against maliss and/or ryzeal which rn are the 2 most represented decks
@@UBUB101 No, you are going to still handtrap spam in your deck is my point. You dont need 23 handtraps to beat them, you are going to still play that many because you want to see you handtraps as much as possible. These decks only need 1 card to get going, so it only makes sense. Im not saying to ban handtraps btw, im just saying the meta hasnt really changed that much.
You can play Dark Hole if you need some help going 2nd
Congratulations on your top cut finish i also enjoyed playing in the main event as well all my opponents enjoyed me playing a relic of a bygone era invoked dogmatika unfortunately due to my health issues i did not do as much testing as I would have liked but my high point of the event was beating the only malice player in my run and unfortunately due to my disability issues I could not move around to well and meet my favorite content creators like you hopefully as i continue to lose weight and my medical team find the source of my back issues i will be retiring to Edison as i need a less stressful game and i will maybe pop up once in a while to cause chaos but i really enjoyed playing my "love letter" to the game I have played for the last 20+ years at what i perceived its highest level advanced and my next creation will be Ryzeal Evilswarm but that's for the future
Great to see your perspective
All I need is new spellbook support to complement the Druler support, and the neo2013 v neoTOSS format will be the best Christmas gift I'll get this year!
o7 tenpai :(
Arise tenpai dragon rulers in a couple of months!
I had my last locals where I got to face two Ryzeal decks and the first time ever facing the deck was a lot of fun. It was a nice grindy 3 game match. I’ve always hated dueling against Yubel and Snake Eyes. As a Tenpai player, it’s actually fun having restrictions and finding ways to make the deck work. This is the first format I play a deck that gets hit on the ban list and now it’s become fun finding new ways to make a deck work. This is a fun format until I OTK my opponent with Tenpai and then it feels like overkill. I’m having fun but I feel bad when my opponent doesn’t look like they’re having fun because I broke their board with 2-3 spells and then full combo’d into an OTK. But, hey, they can play a better deck. That’s what I did.
i think they should have banned poplar/snash instead of OSS but OSS is just horribly future proofed so in the long run it is probably for the best
the argument for OSS being bad in the future can literally be made for every meta card, the fact that if you get ashed you would be negative 2 was enough for that engine to lose tract
I'm gonna disagree here. Banning oss was a good thing and they should've did that last banlist instead of hitting poplar. IMO as a SE player, I think oss was a problem since it was a bridge to so many fire decks and if u got stuck on 1 half of your deck, u just oss into the other part and continue. That was a problem. With oss gone, poplar isn't searching anything crazy.
@@vampireguy92 so many fire decks? mention 1 of those SO MANY besides snake eyes that would be meta, in your own words what you are saying is basically that they should've banned poplar and that snake eyes were the problem not OSS
@@polodoskyzfire king, rescue ace and if you want to count it infernoble before the isolde hit so 🤷🏼
@polodoskyz SEFK, SERA, SEFS all were really good decks thanks to OSS being thrown in there and making them play through whatever the opponent threw at them. I'd rather have OSS be banned and stop other decks from abusing it, then have my poplar or flamberg being banned and completely killing SE. Those fire decks will now be a Rouge tire deck and still able to compete, just not at the top tier events with the new stuff
Josh vs Landon r7 at Anaheim was so fun to watch. I’m glad Josh thought it was sick too
Ryzeal is fine
But trying to play my rogue deck into 6 maxx C is really really not fun
changes are okay, but I wanna low Budget Meta contender Deck like Tenpai. Because the price I will skip the format
Get a new hobby then yugioh is affordable now lol
Structure decks are usually pretty good. Not tier 0 obviously, but is cheap and does well
in less than 2 months blue eyes structure deck is a out of the gate tier 2/1 contender with the third best results in the ocg behind maliss (tied with maliss almost) and ryzeal
Play Purrely
@Doc_117 a set of both mulcharmys is $600
So how long will it takes for people to "Get sick and tired" of Ryzeal and Maliss so we can go full cycle again?
Also 4:30 funny how you can say that with a straight face after what they did to Gimmic Puppet
So what else needs to be hit from the yubel deck? the feild and the continuous spells to one could do it I suppose.
Ryzeal isn't really that much of an issue, nor is Maliss. As a rogue player I've never competed with anything tier 2 or above. That's just my choice in how I want to play Yugioh comp. I have my reasons. Anyways, there will always be best decks. That's nothing new to me. I can beat Ryzeal and Maliss players by outplaying them with fricking Speedroid. But you know what I'll never beat unless I draw the out? Fuwalos. That card is cringe and I wish Konami would have thought that card's design through more.
Well... volcanic snake-eye it is 😂
Silver bullets this format, artifact lancea, and xyz encore. If you need more coverage; book of eclipse, and phantazmay
I undestand people hating Tenpai, but it was the affordable deck in the meta. Time to play Kashtira again.
Time to get hit by lancea 😉
Kash wouldnt be a problem if they hit fenrir to 1. Other than that, kash would be ok now
@@salimrichard4090*ahem* -c r o ss o ut d e s i g n a tor-
I believe the main flaw people see with the banlist is that the previous $1k+ meta is being "replaced" with a new expensive meta
I'm 100% a lot of what has been said here will be said again in 3 or 4 months.. like won't be said of xxxx deck..saying ban stuff or killing a deck won't solve anything you just make it worse for ppl and make company make more greedy actions .. btw no hate to anyone who agrees to that ofc 👀🖐🏻
Tenpai will be fine, they now have room for Masked Dragon and UFO Turtle
Ryzeal feels like kashtira with Arise-heart but with less of the toxic elements. I was able to all but sweep the matchup in its prime with PUNK because building to beat Arise-heart was such a clear and easy target to hit. I'm hoping this format ends up being similar, and rogue decks can reliably find ways around the Detonator to still put up results.
Detonator just being a not OPT or even once per chain card is toxic and it makes so many cards and decks feel so bad into it. I genuinely don’t like it and Maliss is even more obnoxious. Trying to prep into the 2 as the 2 best decks when they play totally differently and both feel unfun to play against is annoying
Funny to note with oss banned finally. They can and probably will unhit ash and poplar.
In fine with Yubel being playable with 1 phantom. Personally i had fun playing againt it after the hit to lacrima and apo the only annoying thing was the multiple phantoms that felt like too much.
Classic yugioh players cant have a deck be good for more than a weekend without demanding hits to the new archetype on not only the first banlist but one before we even have more than 1 major event to pull data from.
I think the only disappointing thing it that we still have cards on the banlist that shouldnt be like drident but well what can you do i also wish they unhit unchained and purrely
I would like poplar to 2 plz
Infernoble, Infernoid, rescue ace, T.G, mikanko, white forest, all these balanced murdered and OSS is the right card to ban? are you insane?
But all those decks are fine. They don't need a SE package to be able to play the Game. They can do well enough on their own without having to rely on the oss stuff
Man I was so tired of seeing people pretend they were playing some rogue deck when half their engine was snake eye. F off and play the real version of your deck.
I don't think Yubel is dead either, but it definitely feels frailer. Now it can't Frame 1 Phantom of Yubel to protect against handtraps while also using it for extension and keeping one for next turn. And with the best deck still being able to jam a ton of handtraps and its boss monster directly countering its two biggest playmakers in Throne and Pain, I think it's going to be a matter of players deciding if all of those hoops are worth going for and not a matter of if the deck is still strong. It definitely IS still strong, the endboard is basically the same, but the work to get to it is much weirder.
Just a banlist to sell more cards. The rest is COPIUM.
Exactly
What's frustrating is that Tenpai, toxic as it is, was the only deck not gate kept by price (outside of the mulcharmys but that's every deck atm). And the deck was only legal, with all of its support, for a few months. I should have longer with my deck before it becomes unplayable . And I'm not saying don't hit the deck, but killing it by putting three necessary cards to one is not a healthy way to balance the game. This makes players cautious to build new decks because, hey if it starts doing well or gets a wave of super strong support, my investment in this deck is worthless. I have to build a new deck I might not be able to afford and I only got to play my cheaper meta relevant deck for like 4 months.
too bad it's still a moneybags format AND a shifter format.
Yubel is literally in the trashcan but yes let’s be scared of it haha
the TCG ban list is just worst than set rotation at this point
Oss was not the correct ban when so many rouge decks use that card to be competitive.
Just ban the effing poplar, Flam or something, don't invalidate tons of other fire decks that use Diabellstar engine, what a stupid ass ban and obvious way to sell new cards.
Original Sinful Spoils was indeed the problem card though.
All those fire decks are still playable and without OSS they’re able to keep their own unique identity instead of just becoming Diabellstar/Azamina fire piles. Not to mention cards like Impulse and Promethean Princess still being around as amazing support pieces unique to those decks.
@@Joravil98The problem is that Snakes was what allowed pretty much every fire deck (that wasn’t exactly Tenpai) to BE competitive in the first place over this year. Plus, playing a splashable engine that has synergy with your deck doesn’t at all detract from a deck’s character. You still have that original engine that dictates how your board works into certain match ups or just specific cards. If you want to COMPETE, Promethean + Impulse just isn’t enough. I’d be WILLING to note Salads as an exception, but the fact that Salads did well is simply strange, especially pre-CRBR, and likely VERY pilot dependent with making specific meta calls for the exact event.
I personally rather enjoy Snake-Eye as an engine, I think how it works is really cool. That being said, banning Flamberge would have let other fire decks compete by giving them more reasonable access to different ED monsters more easily, and not creating a situation where it’s physically impossible to play the game. It would kill Snakes as an independent strategy but still allow the cards to exist in a game where popping your opponent’s Flamberge to give them nigh infinite extension and follow up just isn’t possible, while also making a Promethean line a big commitment.
Nothing was lamer than seeing people telling you they play fire kings or rescue ace only for them to launch into a 10 minute snake eye combo. You aren't a real fire king player.
OSS was a mistake. Who gives a shit if Rogue or Pet decks can use the card if the more broken decks can use it too?
They’re still around everywhere.
Didn’t Sam full combo on stream and the dude broke it and won
Worst thing about Ryzeals and Malice popularity is that they kill the most fun Lab build aka SEC(s)Lab aka MathLab since it's just not worth the build around for their awkward lvl/rank 4 and link spam and furniture builds ED just works better in meta. Oh well at least matchups are generally OK against them.
Cant wait for them to release a one card starter pendulum deck in 2025
Hard to imagine anything more powerful than Majespecter Yata for Wind, that's a link 2 with Kirin access
Yubel ist zu 100% ein FTK-Deck.
Kollege und ich haben mit der normalen Startkombo mehrere FTK Decks gebaut und dagegen kommst du einfach nicht an. Entweder du gehst First und FTKst zu 100%, oder du gehst 2nd und spielst einfach dein Yubel Zeug in den Gegner rein. Kein Problem.
Wonder when us MD players will get to learn how to play against Ryzeal. Wonder what Melffys will have to do into it.
Josh really hate Cyberse deck that he doesn't even want to mention Malice
Who do you prefer: the virgin immediate reaction or the BASED late to discuss because busy playing yugioh
Of course the dude that plays only fiendsmith doesn’t think it’s unhealthy for the game. Infinite grind game that end on Omni or ss negate with 0 commitment
He has bearly 2 events playing fiendsmith lmao.
And no the fiendsmith cards are not a problem, the problem is the price point of the engine
moon is definitely a problem
Idk the way you phrased that comment made fiendsmith sound very manageable. Playing against a grind game deck vs yubel or snakeye sounds wayyy more fun. Coming from MD playing against those two with less than 3 hand traps is insta ff
From a ryzeal player : the deck is good but it's one of the braindead decks which is easy to learn and EASIER TO STOP but the splashability is the greatest aspect a rank 4 xyz deck can have
I got puppet locked round 2 at YCS Anaheim, so it getting banned was nice albeit a lil too late
Good seeing you at YCS Anaheim Josh!
How do you feel about yubel with no fiendsmith cards and playing super poly in the main
I agree with the "Hit problematic decks" thing you talked about, but I don't think Konami does a good job at it. I don't think OSS being banned kills Snake Eyes at all, Jowgen and Puppet is fine, but why not hit Sanctifire? It's like when they limited Spirited Gates to hit Yubel instead of actually hitting the Yubel cards. They're too soft on these kind of decks 90% of the time
All im gonna say is im waiting for mad hacker to get a retrain for maliss
this title coulda used some crab emojis
Kinda would have preferred a Flamberge ban, but OSS is a pretty insanely generic card for what it is, and it made Diabellstar so powerful with how the Azamina cards interact with it, it's not a horrible hit by any means
Time to give Baronne or Savage back to the rogue decks.
Wanted to get something signed by you, but could never find a good time! Thanks to your vids I almost made day 2 so thanks a lot for that!
i really was looking for true draco
Fiendsmith to be next on the banlist.
They just slaughtering the budget decks. Done w tcg
Brother tenpai and yubel are both incredibly hated
@@WoodsRunner That's not the decks he means I'm sure.
@@ethio6308 okay what budget decks were slaughtered then? Don’t yap without actually having an answer
@@WoodsRunner god ur a yap demon , im talking in general, shit is just annoying at this point. & people like you excited to go against the next 1000$ deck
@ it sounds like you’re just angry at the game and justify any cheaper deck or long-standing deck even if it is super frustrating to play against or outstays it’s welcome
They were gone without the banlist. ryzeal bodies everything old
Fiendsmith looks more problematic than Ryzeal
No mention of malice?
Tenpai never die
I’ll be honest even if it makes me look like an idiot, isn’t maliss pretty similar in they build a somewhat unbreakable (or even if its broke they have infinite follow up) and their deck is like a bunch of one card starters and a crap ton of nonengine?
Or is the difference in their power ceiling compared to snake eyes and yubel?
The ceiling for Maliss is CONSIDERABLY lower than Snakes or Yubel, and is much easier to prevent. Maliss doesn’t HAVE natural steps to insulate from Nib AND get full combo. You either play into Nib and probably lose, or you play around it and try to create a board that works whether it forces the Nib or not. Also Lancea exists.
Even a well built Maliss board isn’t NEARLY as tough to crack as Snakes or especially Yubel. It’s hard, sure. Requires knowledge of the deck and how it works to do it efficiently. BUT, it’s still very breakable.
Fun fact, the end boards of Ryzeal AND Maliss, are both susceptible to board breakers. Ofc, you need 2 to break Maliss, bc of the Desavewurm that Terahertz bins. HOWEVER, the second one will usually resolve. Also, Terahertz will have its ATK reset every time it is negated for a turn.
@ okay thank you for the explanation. This makes a lot of sense!
@@IcyWeissy don't listen to the above, it's just an illusion similarly to the Mathmech board (being weak at a first sight). A board will not win you the game in 2024, follow-up + interruption from everywhere + non-engine space will.
While Maliss doesn't offer the raw omni negates Yubel does, it has a potential double D.D Crow (you want to banish at least 1 of your cards) that is devastating and would put Snakes out of the game even without the banlist. Same applies to the Fiendsmith engine being forced to run multiples in the extra (thus severely limiting their options) between Unicorn and White Binder.
On top of the 2 non-target banishes we get the Firewall package that offers a S/T negate safe in the GY, along with removal (packbit) or negation (aggregator) or simply the option to dodge stuff using an IP effect from the GY (code of soul). This means even a DRNM or Droplet would be worthless, while a deck like Tenpai (before the banlist) would need specifically Duster or Storm (for backrow) to turn off the engine, making the deck even less susceptible to Raigeki/Droplet.
Then if we ignore the Firewall engine we also have Shifter that already makes Yubel/Snake useless, while Maliss can go toe to toe with other Shifter decks fairly easily. But even here, the real benefit of Maliss is their draw power. Drawing 3 cards thanks to their combo then another one on the opponent's turn gives you 4 opportunities to grab non-engine, on top of having 1 card combos, in a deck with easily 18 handtraps. This combines the advantages of Centurion (draw power/shifter) with the end board of pre-banned Snakes (no hard negates but solid board) while having the same number of 1 card combos to Yubel (but not losing on Droll)
@@IcyWeissy About Ryzeal, i won't get into detail since they have the spotlight currently, but their card quality is even better than Snakes or Yubel because EVERYTHING is playable at any sequence without including bricks. The fact everything works interchangeably as a starter/extender is the real strength of the deck, with the amount of non-engine + use of shifter (or playing under shifter) being the cherry on top.
Both new decks focused on incredible card quality and very tight engines, so you should take that into account despite the "weaker" boards. They just require different non-engine to counter them (for example Belle is exceptional into Maliss for your turn going second)
Actually no. Ryzeal is not better than snake eye. Mathmech was never a solid contender and rarely topped. Maliss dies to nib and lancea. .
No mention at all of Maliss.
Next year gonna be same story, just different suspect.
How you spoke about snake eyes and yubel is how i feel about floo the deck is old but it does what it wants you can't play....despise floo
Yubel got slap on the wrist, budget deck got murdered. Yes Tenpai is a stupid ftk deck, no one really denies that. My problem is that it was about the only good budget deck in years taking names in the meta. Yes, its still budget if you need 3 fuwaross or the other mulcharmie cause realistically you need them ANYWAY.
I think yubel could keep every single one of their cards if Varudas and FS Desirae didnt exist tbh
I'm fine with Ryzeal.
I'm already sick of Maliss tho
I think if you disagree with banlist, the deck you like should get kneecapped.
He dont know about tenpai. Its still tier 2 or higher.
I've had 3 players stop coming to locals after the azamina cards dropped because they are just that sick of playing against the deck. the deck is over a year old. most decks have a lifespan of around 9 months before getting significant hits. if you invested into the deck at this point expecting it to be around forever that's on you. but i personally am very happy that this boring, 1 card starter, build a board bullshit is gone. i have zero empathy for anyone upset that snake-eye is dead.
ngl late banlist video that focused on thoughtful analysis rather than kneejerk reactions...?
I like it
I think in 4 or 5 months people will start getting tired of ryzeal and/or maliss though^^
Wouldn't it be nice if most if those hits had been done on time? Wouldn't it be good if banlists did more than satiate Komoney's greedy abuses? Wouldn't it be great if us, the playerbase, could something about it?
Leave it to Josh to giive the most boring basic ass TCG player take.
Banning OSS and cutting off all FIRE decks from their most meaningful modern support and killing their competitive viability is so incredibly scummy.
So glad I only play Master Duel and have nothing to do with this shit format.
Good changes but there's still the super one card combo decks, I don't want those decks. 20 plus handtraps with a 1 card combo = toxic meta
What about malice ?
Sure 1 Boardbreaker with 5 engine cards not helping against the old Meta, you need 6 engine cards and turn 20 to stop them, bc they are out of deck cards 😂
>You can beat ryzeal with 1 board breaker and some engine.
If it was actually that easy in practice it wouldn't have 14x the representation of snake eyes lol.
He beat every Ryzeal he faced, so he must know it better than someone looking at a misleading piechart. Ryzeal is overpopular cuz people are sick of SE and don't want to play it anymore, and they all flock to a cool new toy and super easy braindead deck like Ryzeal, but Ryzeal is nowhere near that good, it is infact beatable like that, but the sheer number of players used it is the reason is has that many top
@@lhv2k And Trif won with Ryzeal, negating your entire point. People don't just netdeck, people do learn and playtest the deck, and Joshua isn't the only pros.
snake eye had higher representation than ryzeal before banlist hits. This is copium. This snake eye player salt is hilarious to watch, you played a deck that was alone in tier 1 for months and now you suddenly care about balance.
The dragons aren't going anywhere, sorry. 🎉😂
I only played side events at ycs bologna and I only played against snake eye and tenpai and nothing else
The OSS hit is so dumb. They didn't need to hit snake eye's, and they for sure didn't need to kill it, and if they were gonna kill it why hit OSS thsts the 1 card that should not have been hit, its ridiculous
SE isn't dead. They should've hit oss last time and left poplar alone 😔
@@vampireguy92Nah Snakes as its own deck is UBER dead. Diabellstar and Wanted are no longer starters, Mu Rcielago is no longer a starter, the Azamina cards do nothing for the deck now, OSS being gone means that Poplar ALSO is not a starter anymore. Even with Snash to 3 and a full playset of Bonfire that’s only 6 starters which isn’t enough AT ALL.
I'm playing the world's smallest violin for salty snake eye players.
zero fiendsmith hit that is splashed everywhere.. zero kashtira hit which is splashed everywhere... oh wait they are both engines that the 2 new top decks use so of course wouldn't be touched eh? yubel getting back an insane card but losing 1 phantom wow what a hit eh...
snake eyes is very much still playable alongside azamina with cards such as cross-sheep but instead diabellstar engine is now dead for every other fire deck (fire kings, r-ace, infernoid, infernoble even) that had that extra bit of push against a meta that plays 24 HTs before siding in mulcharmies but sure amazing banlist eh..
funny stuff coming from a guy that constantly talks about how he hates HTs wars, how much snake-eyes and yubel have killed interactive games and now plays fiendsmith decks with 20+ HTs and their stupidly endless grind game and will probably play ryzeal that runs the same amount with no care
Snake gone is a nuthing burger, just another generic go first infinite 1 card combo deck, but Tenpai was a legit go 2nd deck ... and now the game is back to good ol dice roll fest ... Smh.
Not to mention that Tenpai had a lower skill ceiling, which is what enraged most nerds, that someone who doesn't put as much time in the game is fully capable of stomping their ego.
deleting archetypes isnt the way to do "hits". Turns meta into, expensive archetypes, delete decks, sell new expensive archetypes. At least give it a format to see how the new decks shape tournaments before removing options. TCG is the only format that still does deck killing hits. I know Josh has great deal of experience in the game, but he seems to fall into the new toy syndrome quite hard
Tenpai are realy gone?