Homegirl really said "My vibe is creepy and mysterious" and pulled out a generic anime kitsune with a clearly cutesy theme to it all. Lycan did an amazing job matching her style and she really went out of her way to be a nightmare client.
Also from what little I saw, it didn't seem like Lycan's style is particularly creepy/dark, and neither are the assets given, so I'm not sure what *exactly* was expected as the end product?
@@nightmarehoundthis. I hate hate HATE when people view an artist’s work or portfolio, then request a style they obviously do not do often if at all, just to be unsatisfied. There are SO many artists who draw/create in so many styles, you do not have to go to an artist who doesn’t typically do what you envision… and if you’re going to choose to do that, don’t expect the same level of quality or experience if they’re obviously inexperienced in a particular style.
@ yeah it kinda always smells like ”i wanted x/y/z, but i want it cheaper”, and I get it, money is tight, but then you end up in situations like this. If you’re already going to invest hundreds of euros to something, then rather save up for guaranteed satisfaction for few extra hundreds. Also if the issue was the lack of creepyness, I don’t see how this couldn’t be salvaged with desaturation/darker shadows/more red/simplifying the shrine.
EXACTLY! This all could have been avoided if she sent the examples in the tweet over to the artist BEFORE. Cause wtf do you mean you chose a "surprise me" style commission & didn't provide examples of the previous ones that you liked most?!
Do non artists just think we can read their thoghts?? Like, i personally have no idea what it is she actually wanted from this artist, i might get the creepy vibe a bit more but other than that she is kinda saying she wants no changes but to also change everything, shes not being spesiffic at all.
She definitely assumed they would just immediately understand what *kind* of creepy she meant without any further clarification. To me personally the comm'ed art already had a cute creepy vibe, but Yuko didnt even clarify she wanted less cute more creepy until she wrote it out in her rage?? Creepy is a spectrum and the artist did the best they could with what they were given (plus it seemed to match her avatar perfectly!)
Frankly, artists here, I'm confused why are u all so locked in into defending the artists doing work like nothing they present in any of their showcase without confirming it with the client? Worse is that if a client would ask a artists to make something they don't usually make most artists would hate that practice so the client literary did the general good thing of finding someone who makes something they expect to get, assume they will make something in that style and then now, get people imply it was her mistake to expect that the artists would do something in the style of their usual work? She was still rude, in the wrong overall and this whole interaction was dumb, but I'm in shock people are making the argument that it was bad to expect that with out going out of your way to demand the artists do their seemingly normal style, would make something in their usual style and not something that they are clearly not only used to do, but worse the whole medium it was made does not work for it. Have a nice day!
@@TheJustifiedDevil While both sides are wrong and lacked communication, everyone is "defending the artist" because only the client was being unnecessarily mean and rude. that is the reason.
Dude, she describing her style as scary and serious/intimidating while having a model that LOOKS NOTHING like it is crazy. The artist did an amazing job matching her actual style to the background.
Yeah It‘s probably one of those ppl that wishes they could afford an expensive custom model and have a fancy background to add to it. Wich is gonna be difficult when you buy a work from someone who does asset collages for interfaces like streaming overlays. Realistically, she‘s have to get a seperate asset artist, collage artist and also a model designer and artist on top of that. But they probably didn‘t imagine how much that is worth in terms of money. Background art is difficult. So is interface art and model art. You can‘t get all of that for 100 that is why a lot of vtubers are signed and/or make their own art often. I get that it‘s frustrating but coming from an artist perspective, the way this person is not clear about their ideas, switches their ideas over and over mid progress, frantically starts to pull out the moment it doesn‘t go their way is a huge red flag. Yes. The commission taker did some bad things there and struggled with this but most of it seems to be with struggling with the chaos put on them, the asset nightmare and the expectations not to mention the insults. You just don‘t do that especially if a creative is still working for you. It‘ll reflect in the artwork wich u don‘t want. This is why I often tell ppl to pull out of it early if a client is being rude and chaotic about their wants cause better lose that gig than be treated badly and overworked by someone who doesn‘t respect you. Not to mention using an AI background and expecting the artist to just fix it for them. Something they never agreed to with this. It‘s like you walk into a burger king and ask for a wedding cake. What‘s gonna happen right?
Yeah, the much emphasized moodboard's... well... mood is nothing like the model's. The model is cute shounen-style with saturated *orange* and *purple* colours (it reminds me a bit of Miko from No Game No Life). The background provided is also purple-ish. How did she expect that it would suddenly turn into a gloomy grayscale with bright reds is beyond me.
I don't see how she wanted it to be scary when it's a neko girl that's sexy/cute. Usually that isn't "scary". I think she didn't have a clear idea in mind and just pressured the artist hoping they would fix her lack of creativity.
Her partner "edited" it for her (made it purple) which is such an easy fucking edit to do - that's why she's saying that. But every word from her mouth oozed her projections; ie. she's manipulating the story in her favor by twisting reality just enough to self victimize at every step, making herself into a nightmare client no one wants to side with or work with ever again.
Can we talk about how she paid for a SURPRISE ME background?? All she could've said was "I want my background to look like the ones you showcased!!". THAT'S ALL SHE HAD TO FUCKING SAY OMLLL 😭😭😭🙏🙏💀💀💀💀
Right? like thats essentially a skeb commission so im confused why the artist didnt just stated that its a "surprise me" and if she wants a detailed commission, to commission in a different selection?
(I'm not on the client's side, but figured I'll add into this) She said in reply to some comments (I speak Spanish so for me it was natural to read) that she only used the skeb screenshot to show how the artist presents the work, but she actually commissioned fully custom designs. Some comments on the og twitter post also mentioned the skeb, and she clarified that she did NOT request a skeb. As to why she used the skeb service to portray the artist's style? No idea, same as I don't have any idea what this girl's issue is overall lol
I don't think this is a miscommunication issue, I think this is an attitude problem on yuko's part. It wasn't exactly how she wanted it on the first draft (because things are rarely perfect on the first draft), and instead of communicating the revisions she wanted, she karen'd out, told the artist their work is bad and they should feel bad, and forced a refund. She says she loves and velieves in artists, yet either doesn't understand the commission process, or just needed a quick excuse to get out of paying someone, for whatever reason.
I think some of her prior good experiences with artists are all AI compilers anyway, which makes sense that they didn't need to communicate much. Just had to run through a generator again.
@@chaplinfan6369 i understand your point but i can vouch that there wasnt any ai involved in the artist she worked with at least with the ones i have seen. so dont disrespect our work that way. I didn't spend hours talking to her on vgen to get the placement and colour of the talismans right for you to disregard my and their works so blantly. respectfully i never dabble on controversy (as you can check if you want) but this reply is really rude and disrespectful towards the artist you seem to want to protect so badly.
@@misfresitalindasome of. There's no need to go completely insane over someone saying some of her previous commissions were AI because they factually were. Get your head on straight instead of going insane and being defensive. Nobody was even talking about you
That person is delulu anyway. That file that intro and all that…. Delulu all the way. Smells like cringe basement kid with a need for greatness with some money.
4:17 This is like a joke i Guess? "Oscar" meaning the award, goes for what op said before about the artist whining and allat so they say they're proud of such talented actor meaning that op thinks the artist was just acting like a victim.
Could you please tell me, from Yuko messages, original posts, and docs in Spanish, did Yuko really don't know what they wanted or was it just due to the language barrier that everything becomes rather "unspecified"? Thank you.
@@nadiada5484 In my opinion, Yuko did know what she wanted but maybe from the language barrier she wasn't able to express herself correctly to the artist and were kinda vague just saying stuff like "this vibe" or "something like this" idk how good is Yukos english so i don't know if this was a mistake from her part or if this is her way of talking
As an artist I *am* genuinely withering at how ugly what she was asking for would actually be. Flat (Semi-Transparent?) unshaded 2D on a mostly AI Generated *painted* background with a Vtuber model next to it.... the clash of style would make me deny a commission based on that alone. Style matching is a thing that artists do, because if you don't, it looks bad. It's ugly.
she seems to genuinely not know anything about art, what she was getting was so freaking beautiful and i would've been over the moon with the quality and effort behind it,, but what she wanted instead was just ??? nowhere near a good concept or better than the artists work
Haha, customer are always right, but also, my design professor always tells me that customers never understand what they need. So either you give them what they want, ie faster horses, or what they need, fukin cars. But thats in context of design sooo idk
As an artist i am GENUINELY weird out by people saying that the client should be happy with what amounts to experimental work of someone trying to make 2d art look alike using effects only. Why the ... holy hell is everyone pretending that this is fine? What clown world is this? Its not to dis the creator, I'm sure they put in the work, but they basically stabbed themself in the foot making something they clearly were not experienced in. I can get where the confusion came from, the client wanted a neon like stylish representation of a shrine and artist understood they wanted a realistic like shrine but ... this is unironically kinda insulting to the client indirectly. They basically assumed the artist did not even check what they put up and just decided to ask them with out considering that if they wanted to realistic shrine they would need to look for artists who do that kind of stuff. Worse is even if they did, you should push against such request in general this is literary behavior most of you guys commenting now would also blame clients for doing. The whole interaction was dumb and the client was in the end rude even considering all this but could you not pretend this was fine? Have a nice day!
I think it upsets her because it changes the "refundable amount". She was not happy with the sketch and the artist continued without waiting for her go. For her it feels unfair to have a different "legal setting" for something she hasb't agreed to in the first place.
I don’t think she intended on paying this artist for their time and work in the first place. This is why she was all over the place with want she wanted granted English isn’t her first language but that still no excuse for her to properly communicate. She wanted this artist to get to a certain point in the project and file a charge back claim good thing PayPal saw through her BS
I think it was that Yoko didn't approve the artist moving forward yet and asked Lycan to hold off until she could communicate more but the artist continued anyways without her approval. (according to my understanding of the story)
@@rinaliny but she did, she basically said show me what these screens look like so i can decide what changes i want to be made... therefore they have to make those screens. she can't give the go ahead to show her what they were visualizing and then say she didn't give the go ahead to show her what they were visualizing. perhaps she didn't realize what she was asking for, but that is on her, not the artist for doing exactly what she asked them to do, which is show them what it would look like so she could decide if they went together like she wanted.
I hope no artist ever works with her again. What a nightmare. Yes, maybe the commission wasn't everything she wanted, but she needs to communicate edits like a normal person instead of going nuclear.
I wonder if she actually meant torii gate cause that’s what all her references featured which would have more of the vibrant red while shrines themselves are usually wooden buildings like the artist drew. If so it’s kinda extra messed up to try to drag someone online for your own misunderstanding
lmao, they're just mary sue, that's all. creating an oc with all those 💅japanese aesthetic💅 while not even being asian. even if we don't take her cultural appropriation into account: if she wanted such aesthetic, THE LEAST she could do was do a research on the culture. if you're gonna use a foreign culture as your aesthetic, at least use proper names and terminology instead of getting mad when someone else knows better than you 🤡.
I don't know if it was intentionally done but Yuko was upset that they dumped personal circumstances but then did the same with their grandfather and school exams and their anxiety and depression? That makes sense how?
Exactly... Yuko was upset about having this happen while she's dealing with life problems but she's not even the one being commissioned to do work?? Her part of the comm is basically just to say "yes, no, i want this changed" while the artist is doing their JOB on top of having similar problems happening. But somehow the artists problems are irrelevant and should'nt have affected their work? That part made no sense to me at all
EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS like she said there r other problems in the world but then she's out here spewing her OWN problems after that sentence..what a hypocrite lol
I think the idea on Yuko's behalf was that the artist shouldn't be allowed to complain bc everyone else is also going through difficult times, using herself as an example. The main issue was that on top of everything Yuko has done, it just made her look like a massive Karen.
Some ppl are like that. It‘s why I kinda see them as karens. Expect you to have the patience of an underpayed casheer while they treat you like scum. It‘s this frantic „i‘m better than you“ attitude and a refusal to see someone they do business with as a person.
Damn... As a full-time artist in the corporate world and self-employed, this is straight-up gaslighting and manipulation. Poor artist. The artwork is fine. To all aspiring artists, let me tell you: CHARGE MORE! You will never have problems with high-paying clients because they understand the process and book a pro for a reason-they want the work done. The cheaper the client, the bigger the problems. Also, by setting higher prices, you automatically filter out clients like these-it's a win-win!
Holy shit, Yuko loses all credibility if she says that result is shit. We can all see what it looks like. Saying a beautiful four course gourmet meal looks like shit because you prefer the taste of fast food only makes you look like an idiot. Even if no one can say you're wrong if you do prefer fast food, you are wrong if you say that gourmet meal is shit.
...and which artist's work are you calling fast food here? the ones who made the art in her moodboard? the other style of the commissioned artist here? seriously, whats up with the comment section... several people seem unable to criticize yuko without also inadvertently shitting on other artists. y'all are mean too.
@@AG-up7kx holy shit. Pull the stick out of your ass and stop looking for trouble. No analogy is gonna be 100% perfect. It gets the idea across if you aren't a complete dipshit.
every couple months there is drama bc someone orders a surprise me and gets mad its a surprise design. if u dont wanna risk maybe not 100 liking the product dont order a surprise me. it is cheaper for a reason
"i dont want drama" then dont start it 😭 as an artist myself and someone who commissions artists regularly, i have NEVER had to resort to callouts, because its an absolute last resort. i wouldve been SO grateful for the free revisions, and just politely ask for them.
Her cute colorful kitsune girl model doesn't fit the inspo photos of the black and white dark creepy stuff AT ALL. Same with the background she provided. Not even close! She says that's "her style" but its literally not. She really did act like the WIP was the finished work. Very odd.
Some translations notes I will be making throughout the video just to help a little bit I'm in minute 3:50 so far the way op is talking about the artist is gender neutral. Also "Now here is what you told me" is supposed to say "Now is when you cancel me" 7:52 again she's complaining about the work quality and she is stating that if you are a professional and now that you cannot deliver a certain commision or if you suddenly change you art style you must communicate it. Is worth adding that shes using a really accusatory language throughout 8:27 actually here she's talking about how the artist supposedly spent the money or an unfinished comm. Maybe giving a reason why she isn't getting the full refund?.
About the op starting by using gender neutral pronouns: Twitters-Googles translation automatically dictates that if there isn't a female or neutral spanish pronoun detected, it will always go for male pronouns instead. She always referred to the artist with very pissed manners (such as calling her tia, as in like, this girl)
@@dependingnameNow thinking about it “tia” if translated literally means “aunt”. So if someone is using it to add disrespect the google translate may make it sound colloquial by translating it to “auntie”.
Honestly she doesn't sound like she understands what a WIP is? She got mad it was put into Work In Progress (WIP) mode, but the entire point of WIP is that the customer can make changes... If they didn't like the WIP then they could've asked "can you make it the same but in the other style"? At any point of all the reviews, revisions and edits she could've mentioned that she wanted the other style. I'm confused on why they never did despite seeing the WIP? Edit: Also from the start this commission is listed as a Suprise Me commission. That means this commission is supposed to be artists freedom of rendition. Usually you get minimal to 0 revisions in these. Suprise Me commissions typically means the client has far less freedoms in the outcome. How much freedom is restricted is up to the artist in terms of how many revisions you get. You typically give whatever info you need to the artist, they make whatever they want from it, you get it back, done. In this case the artist had lots of revisions and even was willing to change the style back for the customer had they just asked normally. Lots of suprise me comms are used for trying new styles too. Maybe this artist is using "Suprise Me" comms differently or something but it is very quickly mentioned and quickly forgotten here that it was a suprise me comm.
yes which is normal, they can't really except the same artstyle (especially when not specified) and revision for 10$ is great, but she even said she would redo it for free.
If I had a coin for when a orange fox Spaniard girl being an insufferable bad person, I would have 2, which it isn't much but it's curious it happened twice...
honeslty, spanish from spain is so funny to me, im reading everything in my mind with the accent and i can't stop giggling, i havent even pass the 10min lol she's using a lot of expressions that can't translate well/at all to english bc they are really colloquial, like using "tia" in spain is a way to say girl/woman in a informal way, like saying dude, but it also in general spanish it means aunt, so the translator goes with that lmao
or like in 8:20 "cagondio" is a shorter version of a "me cago en Dios" that, again, is an spain expression that can be translate in a literal form as "i shit on God" but doesn't really make the intended impact, i think the best translation for that it will be just "fuck", or in the context "she fucking cry", u know? idk what word the translation end of putting
If he did it themed as the mood board, it would counteract what she wanted to begin with... as someone who does take commissions, I can't tell what she wants at all.
@zenmomLol she gave what she wanted to the other artist in English so I'm basing it off what I know unless she gave more info to the artist in Spanish I don't know about it
(I'm updating this as i watch the video 🗣️) 4:15 Yuko means that the artist is a dramatist, deserving of an Oscar, and that they(? cries as much as Yuko's grandmother when she sees Yuko eat the whole plate of food (the grandmother is proud that the plate has been eaten in its entirety lol) 7:54 summary: she would have liked the artist to have told her about the change in his graphic style, and she doesn't regret giving him a second chance when the artist told her he couldn't deliver the work on time, but Yuko says that family problems are not an excuse as everyone has them and that the artist is supposed to be a PROFESSIONAL xD. she also mentions that she has already endured 2 weeks of manipulation and that she is sick to shit of crying. 1:12:00 in Spanish it's 286494938 times meaner, yuko it's from Spain, soo 💀
Actually as artist I may sound controversial but... If I accept the commission and I get 8 pages doc of vibes, details and backstory, I'd most likely apologize sincerely and immediatly cancel commission with full refund. I had this type of clients two times and it was absolutly the same excruciating experience. They don't actually know what they want. They have some VIBE inside they mind and need the artists somehow catch it fully from some vague explanations about their character's backstory. And most of the time I'm actually good at catching the vibe and talking with client to understand them better... But theeen they have also this 8 page doc that completely contradicting details and ideas and contains so much details they want to be included my brain starting to hurt only by trying imagine it and collect in one picture. Both times clients with docs like that demanded extra work and detailing they didn't paid for, intentionally told they are fine with rough sketches with simple background (examples showcased some gradient and shape of one piece of furniture) and then asking to detail the room and and some "crucial" details like windows with scenery and that one special rug that was gifted by one character to another (they included it to the doc, you see, why they even need to ask to add it?!) and a favorite vase of them and so on... One of them even tried to guilt-trip me into doing massive bacground scene with tons of characters! So for me it always big potential redflag, especially if paired with obviously vague descriptions of the piece they want.
You are SPOT ON. The more anal and nitpicky and so utterly unclear while being OVERLY 'clear' the client is, the more likely they are to give you trouble and be an unpleasable princess diva about the whole process and try to weasel extra work out of you as if they are entitled to it because they paid for the original agreement and just retconned it into the contract in their mind palace.
Ya know what? i’m gonna adopt this practice. When a non-artist client is too detailed with their vision - they likely have a very SOLID image in mind that no artist could possibly accurately replicate cuz we don’t read minds. What they want is for you to photocopy their vibe like- HOW??? Ever?
@@anonymousme3571 oh I had WORST job project I ever have with some newbie indy game studio literally because of this. My friend was art director and asked if I want to join. They paid WAY below my normal rates but project sounded really cool so I decided... well, I can at least have fun and get exerience with that type of game I want to try to do myself. Maybe find investor/coder for my own project or at least learn the pipeline better. Well... That was shitshow. There was two screenwriters with strong VISION. Both right from the college, never worked in the industry but somehow found the producer and investors (never been in the industry too!). Somehow they also got full control to make they VISION true. Both was like 22 or so. and problem was they couldn't flesh out they VISION even with goddamn clear references (while gave us tons of text descriptions) and when they could... it ended up not the right references because "not the right vibe". They gave us funcast of character. I sketched him and they approved the sketch and when I lined it they was shocked he looked too manly (reference was literally block of rock 6,1 height 207lb guy with beard and blocky face XD) and they asked to make him less build up and soften the features. Well, after rounds of corrections (while I'm mostly DON'T do corrections to the line of the approved sketches and I was not hired for hourly rates) art director involved and did corrections herself word by word what they asked and it ended up looking like young Jensen Ackles. By this time we both (me and art dir) was shocked because literally what the fuck?! Also background was shitty photoshoped photos. And they was completely ok with it, they VISION was not about backgrounds apparantly. So I said to the producer they never will finish that game without proper pipeline. It's art director who should decide on visual style and character's appearance. In the line of the story but still... it's not up the screen writers to decide any tiny details of it. Maybe market team can also join to decide better what they focus audience would like. Still not unexperienced screen writers. Fuck, I had more experience in writing then both of them XD So I told them I did them favor and lowered my rate not to listen shitty feedback of two rookies who can even formulate it constructively and politely. And I quit XD My art dir friend quit too but collected really good amount of hourly pay for rounds and round of corrections and attempts to figure out they VISION. They hired some student after me because "she asked less then our budget!" Well, guess you never commissioned big work from young unsalted artist that have work and studies besides your projectб lol. Yes, they ask 15$ for character illustration but you'll wait for years to get your 20 characters done. The game was never realised.
I speak spanish and the commissioner seems like an absolute turd of a person. There was no need to get so personal with the insults towards that artist just because they didn't like the end result.
This is wild. Commissioning art is a COLLABORATION. Communication is so important. I've had poor experiences with artists in the past, so this definitely goes both ways, but it sounds like this client got one sample back and threw their hands up like the whole thing was a bust. Such a solvable issue.
This reminds me of a story my father told me. About a person wanting a curtainless/glassless shower. With a celling showerhead in the center of the shower. When the person hired a constructer to build that, he declined. The person was upset and hired someone who was willing to make what they wanted. After it was built, the person realized the water splashed everywhere in the bathroom and made a mess. They blamed the new constructer for doing a "bad job". The reason why this commission made me think of this is because the person asked for red/black colors, but the artist knows it wouldn't match the Vtuber design. If the Vtuber got what she wanted, she would have realized how ugly it was and wasted everyone's time. Just like how the first constructer declined the job because he knew the design would cause the water to splash everywhere and instead of wasting everyone's time, and getting a bad review, he declined the job. The customer isn't always "right". Their fantasy version of what they want might not work. But when it doesn't work, they blame the artist (constructer) for doing a bad job.
If someone handed me 8 pages worth of scattershot references all with completely different utterly confusing clashing vibes for a singular commission I’d just delete my whole account at that point. Not helping things is this vtuber’s flagrant refusal to elaborate and their horrible attitude. And all this OVER A SURPRISE ME???
For everyone saying it's the artist's fault for creating it in the wrong style, see this part 1:08:58 TLDR: The biggest technical problem with the art here is in the difference between 2d and 3d style which was NEVER communicated. and while the artist's past work is in 2d style, the client asked to incorporate a 3D background, which will only be natural to add 3d design elements. this just shows the level of skill of the artist, because adding 2d flat shapes to a 3d background would have no overall harmony. Ideally they should have discussed that before starting it though. The second biggest technical problem was the color palette, but literally her mood board only had white black and red, so the "orange lanterns" are literally just a red glow tbh. and yeah those could easily changed to other colors if she just asked.
Their previous style and current work are both technically 2D art. Vector art is different than illustrative art. Vector art is still considered 2D, 3D would be something like Blender rendering. Yuko probably wanted illustrative art, which is something that the artist doesn't do. Vector stylization uses a lot of simplicity in object designs, which to the untrained eye looks "easy to make." Which is why Yuko threw a fit about it looking low quality, when in actuality, if the artist created this in something like Adobe Illustrator, it takes a lot of technical skills. Vector art and Illustrative art would be art _styles._ 2D art vs 3D art are different _mediums._ But overall no, it's not the artist's fault for creating it in the wrong style. They played to the best of their abilities. It's Yuko's fault for going to an artist with that style and expecting a different reality.
@@complainx3 you're right about the 2d and 3d, I just meant the stylization. but yeah art is very subjective and nuanced so it's very difficult to describe with just words and even references. That's where the whole miscommunication came from in the first place. Even if I try to understand Yuko's side and say, even if it's the artist's fault for not communicating their artist vision, she also lacked proper communication. The just needed more revisions to the WIP. It does not justify her rude attitude, her public callout post, her chargeback via paypal.
Haven’t gotten this far in the video yet but oh man, I didn’t even realise that the style change most likely was to accommodate to the background. That honestly explains the style change a bunch
Yuko said she didn't necessarily want to keep the AI background but to be used as an inspiration for a new one in the artist style shown on her portfolio, and that's why she also asked beforehand if the artist was willing to take the commission before paying.
@@atodeblue yes like Kat said if she wanted something similar to the artist's previous works she couldn't have the background integrated. So from the start she was damned to choose between the previous work style and the ai background.
As a Puerto Rican and both English and Spanish speaker, she is infact very much angry in those posts where Google Translate doesnt portray through well.
Yeah I think you were correct about how yeah, I can see how that wasn’t what she wanted , but at the same time she could have just asked for more revisions but she completely flipped out instead. And yeah, while I’m nowhere near fluent in Spanish I know enough to know those swears were definitely in the original text
6:36 “he doesn’t like gucci anymore” 😭😭😭 in spanish saying that something’s gucci is like saying it’s good, so what Yuko meant there was “she (the artist) doesn’t like me anymore”
I'm going to be very frank about this, but as a english speaking artist, i have NO IDEA what the person wants and is even complaining about cus in my eyes the artist did everything the commissioner asked for. Apart from the haunted creepier vibe thing not being fulfilled but the hell does she expect? The artist is known to do simpler cuter style for her work and her stuff IS more vibrant but yuko's moodboard is so dark.
I think I get what Yuko wanted. She literally wanted the sketch but instead of red lines it's bright purple lines. She didn't want an actual shrine or lamps just the stylized outlines.
I mean they didnt communicate that they wanted it to be spooky? Also they ordered a "SURPRISE ME" commission! They dont need permission to move on and they give artist full creative ability.
there are two things true about why the client is angry: is what katliente said about working fast and not showing the wip correctly and how this style looks so different from the usual they have on vgen!! BUT this client is so difficult, so mean and can't communicate correctly omg edit to add: It feels like she thought they were trauma dumping her but I dont think that was the case at all, the artist just explained it was a difficult moment! Also, also, why she payed like 300 when the surprise me is 80???
on vgen u put a base price which is shown on the commission and then put add ons that only show when putting in ur order. most likely u can add different screens as add on which added to the final cost
I don’t think she ordered the surprise me because the artist is showing works just progress, the surprise me is just an example of what the artists advertised style is like
The way that Yuko just takes any chance to insult Lycann's work and then themself is utterly disgusting 😭 like we know you don't like it but that doesn't give you the right to try and be funny ab it
For anyone that's confused over the translations: "tía" in Spain is a way to call any girl. La tía = the gal Esta tía = this girl Twitter translates it as "aunt" because in latin spanish "tía" is only used for "aunt".
i dont like how they sent wip and ask for revisions, revisions were sent, but then after it was mark as complete, they now say they hate it and its not worth the money, why did they not say something at first time it was sent before the revisions. They were never clear at any point of what exactly they wanted. the most they gave were "vibes" and never once ask for specific changes that they didnt like to be made. just went straight to refund.
I hate how many vtubers treat artists. This community is built on artists and yet they’re treated like shit. You don’t communicate what you’re unsatisfied with and you end up ~shockingly~ unsatisfied? Time to make a callout! Not to mention the ai shit, how are you gonna be in a community once again, built off the backs of artists, and have the audacity to use ai? Moodboards are a thing, people.
@@ohsarcasm soy española nacida en españa y hasta me cuesta a veces entender nuestras propias expresiones, como la de ''gucci'' (que viene de guchi, que significa guay o que padre) o ''de cojones'', siento que para una supuesta ''funa'' a un artista que utiliza mayoriamente el ingles, lo hizo un poco a proposito para joder aun mas la traducción automatica de twitter
@@dependingnameNo es lo de gucci una expresión adoptada del inglés? Lo típico que se hace popular y la gente de habla española lo adoptamos a nuestro estilo. No creo que podamos contar eso como expresión española HAHAHA Pero si que es gracioso saber que hay gente de incluso españa que pueda no entender ciertas expresiones, lo entiendo de gente de latinoamerica ya que el español de cada uno es muy distinto pero se me hace muy gracioso cuando ocurre hasta aquí. Also no creo que lo hiciese con la intención específica de joder, osea no lo defiendo pero tipo, no creo que haya llegado a tanto su rama de pensamiento JAJAJAJA
For someone who accused the artist for being manipulative (inprofessional) with personal stuff, they did the exact same, she literally brough up her situation mutiple times. like what? the hipocrisy! And also how did she not consider the laguage barrier instead of being so sarcastic, ignorant and mean? it is a comunication issue but she just wants to prove the artist is stupid. and also doesn't try to solve the issue at all. it isn't really a laguage barrier because for me, from all around we can see this person is just mean and didn''t really wanted anything.
Wait wait wait. 5:50 The artist did such a good job IMO. The background matches the vtubers model well. All together it looks really cute and has a great atmosphere to it. I can understand that if it wasn't what they wanted, but for the vtuber to say that it is so bad is really out of line. And especially for them to bring the drama online is so uncalled for.
Important red flag for any artist: If a client sends a wall of text and multiple "reference" documents, you will never ever satisfy their demands no matter how much they pay, they dont want your work, they want a slave. Reading a wall of text is part of your time, if they don't consider that as a lack of respect for your person then that's a nice give away they just don't respect you, and to top it off going for your lowest tier pricing. Artist isn't clear of fault either, emergencies happen and its understandable but never ever make it your clients problem, just like they should respect you, you should respect their time too. Everybody has problems so be responsible with your deadlines and be clear about your deliveries
Ok but they didn't make it about them or their issues, to me it feels very much like they were trying to explain and ask for a little understanding in the time they were taking, also it was statede by the client in the eeext messages that they, I quote "didn't care about a deadline" and that the artist should "take their time".
Nah, that's def aggressive even in spanish, maybe even more than the translation 😭 Edit (for parts with no translation): 6:13 The one from VGen watching the dispute 7:55 "If you are an 'artist' that wishes to be valued for your work and time, value your client, be honest. If you didn't read my commission, or you dont know how to do it, or you changed your artstyle from night to morning, COMMUNICATE IT (Say it). Do not give a onesided work for good (basically don't consider it dont if the other party doesnt agree) if the person who bought it hasn't said sh** (even less if not even a day passed). I don't regret not having given a second opportunity to a person who once asked by me for explanations and who I showed empathy for their situation at home, gave me excuses (replied to me with excuses). A PROFESSIONAL, do you know what's money and what it costs to gain it, and if you're not in the conditions I don't mind waiting till you are for you to give me the quality you promised me (basically saying that they are fine if they take their time till they deliber the promised quality), but don't tell me about your familiar problems (not sure about this word) as if you were the only one who goes through every pain of the world (these last 4 words are inaccurate, they used a figurative language that I find it hard to translate, in my language it goes "Tutte le pene del mondo") bothers me and a lot. For a long time and efforts... (I GIVE UP HERE, SORRY)" Summary of the text: They are upset that they spent a lot of money when the artist could have just not taken the commission if they couldnt deliver what they wanted. They also accuse the artist of having manipulated them (then the rest it covered by cam). Ehm ehm "Do you know what costs the same? Sh*tting" 😭 Me from the future, IM CRYING... The message got translated later on 💔💔💔
I think I understand what it was she was asking for but it was conveyed so horribly that I can see why the miscommunication happened in the first place. Both parties were in the wrong for different reasons. Commissioner for not providing clear direction during revision Artist for not waiting or asking clarifying questions
to be fair there was little confusion to have about the part of the commissioner. If you take it word for word she indeed did what was asked and was willind to restart when the mistakes were pointed out
This is why if you have a language difference between an artist and a commissioner, you should invest some time to at least look into a translator to help both parties. There are people that may even help for free out there, and you could probably avoid a lot of these issues.
1:01:53 This is the most frustrating moment for me, the client is like “I thought your sketch looked shit but I let you cook” as some kind of “I tried to be nice to you” gotcha, when if they had just said “It looks like that lamp will cover my background, is it going to be translucent or something?” they might have solved the miscommunication I would say for the artist as well (more of a word of caution to myself) it might have been good to explicitly say what they were doing next, like “Ok, I will make the changes you requested to the Starting Soon screen and send you the final file” “Here is the chatting screen WIP, do you have any revisions/this is just a progress update and I will send you the finished piece in x days” so the client has a chance to say “wait I haven’t approved that!” But hindsight is 20/20 and we’ve all heard of the opposite clients who ignore the artist and then complain that they didn’t read their mind to know they should finish the piece, so who knows…
This is surprisingly triggering. I had a similar situation once, when I got the opportunity to freelance as a 3D Artist. My employer was a kind woman, who acted extremely friendly towards me. She wanted me to create assets for a forest and sent me a few reference pictures of trees in various different styles, from lowpoly to detailed. I made a total of 3 different trees that I worked on whenever I got home at night from my day job and each time she had something new to criticize. She then did the same thing Yuko did and just sent me a message that we needed to talk about my work, which resulted in her firing me. I tried to stay rational during all this, but honestly, that whole situation was so stressful, especially because I wanted to deliver good work on my first job. Without trying to be dramatic, but I think it traumatized me. We are just people, not mind-reading machines.
The commission looked amazing to me. The commissioner was being so rotten. I've had problematic commissioners, but this one is on another level. That person in particular is rotten. If I were watching them previously, finding out about this would be an immediate unfollow.
fr. ive done very few comissons but ive had one person in particular waste my time entirely, use the model once, delete the stream, and never even credited me (on top of that they traced the vtuber model id drawn to create an implied nsfw image + lots of other issues) while i do agree there are issues on the comission overall, it is the commissioners job to let the artist know if there is a problem.if they struggle to communicate (totally valid.) then do not blame the artist for things you wanted changed if you couldnt tell them you wanted it changed. the person who is bashing the artist, i would never want to work with.
@@Puffy_jpg exactly, all of that in addition to the artist, without push back or complaining, going the extra mile to create art assets for them, even though it's explicitly stated in their terms that illustration is not a service they offer. Doing all of that extra work, feeling proud of it and excited to show the commissioner, then being met with insults toward their skill is just incredibly sad. I also can understand it not going the intended direction, but artists are used to it... It's par for the course in doing commission work, as long as it doesn't get into scope creep territory. The crazy part is the only thing "wrong" was the art direction. The commissioner attacked the artist's skill, when it was done incredibly well and skillfully. It literally was only the art direction that didn't jive, and that has nothing to do with technical skill, which they clearly have. So sad to see an artist treated this way. And the AI reference stuff irks me so bad. Yuck. But I understand they're trying to distance themselves from that, but.... My own 2¢ that's built on nothing but my opinion - pulling this stunt here makes it feel like it's a publicity thing to try to make commissioning artists look bad and to create excuses to continue to use AI. Maybe they were harassed for it and they want to make it look like they "tried" or something. But it's more likely I'm reading too far into it. I just don't understand the reaction at all and I'm trying to make it make sense.
I think part of the issue with the lanterns is that in the sketch they were square like the one in the background, and in the finished work they're paper style.
The final product doesn't look bad at all. But I also see the problem that it doesn't really resemble the moodboard much, which, as you said, is a lot darker, more dark red, blue, black and a touch of white and very 3D. While it has the elements provided, it does not have the same mood. So they're very different in terms of that, even if the version sent is not at all ugly nor does it necessarily lack the requested elements. Which probably created the miscommunication. Because a moodboard does not mean it all needs to be the same. The moodboard gives dark youkai vibes, maybe like an abandoned shrine or temple in the woods or on a mountain, the other feels more like a lively festival in the evening/night. The communication was clearly very off here from the commissioner's side as well though and her reaction was worse than any mistakes the artists might have made. I feel the artist went with the brighter colors of the model to match it and the background and what they wanted to try and knew how to do, whereas the VTuber wanted the complete opposite in terms of colors, and not 3D. Whether it fits their model is up to the client in the end but I understand why the artist thought they wanted something to match their model more. Because artists tend to think more about what fits together whereas a client may have a vision that's not really fitting in reality with what she already has and wants So both should have communicated better but the Yuko most definitely was wrong for filing a chargeback without any time given to change a thing and on top going on a really rude rant, disclosing personal information, while not even giving them a chance. It's okay for an artist to say "I wanted to challenge myself" and the commissioner to answer "I'm sorry, I appreciate the effort but I really wanted something more like this, this and this. It does not look bad but it's not what I described, which is this and that, so I would be grateful for a revision." However, the commissioner also should know that WiP means Work in Progress. So even an unapproved sketch means the work is in progress. To me, WiP just means the artist started my commission. Nothing more, nothing less. It is no finalized sketch nor drawing but just to give people an idea that you started. It doesn't mean that no revisions are possible anymore. I understand being disappointed by the final product not capturing the vibes they wanted. There is unfortunately always a risk when commissioning a person who doesn't live in your head that some discrepancies will happen. Not to mention that it's often impossible to recreate a vision 1:1. Maybe also choose an artist who has made similar things and especially be upfront about what you do and don't want. The commissioner needs to be as clear as possible in what they want, especially with language barriers. And the artist needs to be upfront about what they might not be too great at yet. But the client needs to say what they want and give time for revisions the most. This is not the artist's fault. And filing a chargeback immediately without allowing the artist to change it is low. Because art is always a process, not a 1 to 100 acceleration without stops. However, I also want to say I'm not a fan of people bringing up their personal struggles as explanations for issues but I also have to say they handled that well by admitting that and providing a solution. I'm truly sorry for them and life can always come in-between, I'm not denying that as a disabled person myself. But it's good to acknowledge that personal problems can't always be thrown in to be granted more extended deadlines, patience, lenience, etc. because the client is paying for a service after all. So Lycan reacted well despite bringing up their situation. While we all can't predict everything, it's important to either be upfront about potential delays or be more generous with deadlines to start with if you know your health isn't well. Like 1 month is indeed very short, especially if they also had other clients or finals, etc. If you fear you can't make it and the client can't wait, then it's not a good fit. I recently had a comparably simple art commissioned but even that took 2 months. Which was fine as the deadline was generous but she took her struggles into consideration, allowing suitable revisions at every stage, etc. I know these personal struggles. I'm sympathetic toward their circumstances. But I've seen these arguments used way too often even by scammers and it's understandable to be wary while still being understanding. Mainly because we all have our package to carry and a lot of money is still on the line. With all these scams, it's not unusual to be anxious. This is not to say the artist is entirely wrong here. Not at all. The VTuber's reaction was way too abrupt, over the top and harsh without giving the artist any chance to change a thing just because the first draft wasn't what she wanted. Which could have been communicated. It would be one thing if the artist had refused any changes but it doesn't seem like that at all. While a certain amount of revisions should be included as long as it fits the stage of the drawing, the artist definitely should have waited for approval. As an artist, I would likely ask one time too many than one time time too few. Just so no work is done in vain because revisions are always harder to do. But the VTuber also shouldn't ever resort to such extreme language. Yes, the artist also made a few mistakes. That happens. But it does not warrant such a drastic response, especially with how compliant they were to make it right for the client. Communication is hard. Especially across languages. But the client needs to consider whether they can convey what they want in the artist's language as clearly as possible or misunderstandings are bound to happen. It's already hard at times to envision what someone wants just based on words, even if perfectly articulated. But if they can't communicate it well, the artist can only make an effort. Lycan should have taken a step back and taken it slower given that Yuko doesn't seem to convey her ideas well, but it would be wrong to blame Lycan entirely either. Or maybe they thought they understood but Yuko's wording was off. Lycan undoubtedly put effort into the product even if it's a completely different style. Both made mistakes. But Yuko, in my opinion, made much wose mistakes than Lycan ever did, given that they could have adjusted it for free and even offered it... I just don't like how Yuko immediately made it public, made no effort to give the artist a chance and then became way too aggressive right from the start.
You're right, they just both didn't properly communicate their vision, but in the end, that doesn't make it ok to treat someone so rudely. and that's why even though they're both wrong during the commission, in the aftermath, most people would say she is more wrong in this situation.
the moodboard itself is very different from the style of the previous work anyway with more depth, the background given also has depth so really can't expect something flat out of it also knowing the artist is more used to brighter and cute vibes should be more understandable about it and with how much revision they proposed, for something who doesn't even have a fixed date... the artist herself pointed out her mistakes and was willing to fix them as shocker commissioners don't always get it right on the first try. While there was no direct "I approve this design" there was also no clear opposition to it and even after it wasn't too late for changes nor was there any urgency
@@Axiasart yeah, normal commissions progress usually goes like: draft > client feedback > art WIP > client feedback > art WIP > client feedback > art final > client changes at this point may include additional fee instead it went like: draft > client feedback (ambiguous) > art WIP > client CHARGEBACK ON PAYPAL AND MAKE A PUBLIC RAGE POST TO DESTROY YOUR CAREER
yuko responded to the doc posted by the commissioner with her own doc that was basically just taking all of the commissioner's words out of context to defend herself. the part that got me most was yuko posting "proof" that she asked the artist to wait to post the starting soon screen but the screenshot shown is just her suggesting that the artist should tweak some things and not right out asking for something to be changed. commission artists cant read your mind, tell them exactly what you want to avoid problems like this.
Yea communication is always important I’m an artist and I have been working with a young lady from Indonesia who uses a translator to communicate with me she also does unlimited revisions and has been very patient with me thru my entire project. Whenever she messes up something I usually don’t state an issue until I know she is able to hear me out cause me and her are on different time zones so if it’s 2pm for me it’s 2am for her so I just try to understand the people I ask to do art for me😊💕 W video as always 🥰
as an aspiring artist as well, even with as little experience as i have i can see the references of lycan's previous works and yuko's backgrounds look NOTHING alike. they have completely different styles entirely. lycan did a great job style-matching imo working with something that didnt fit them at all.
I am late to this video but you should add the person who was working the commission in the description. That work was such high quality and if I was into vtubing I would hire them for my graphics design work. I can't comprehend someone spitting in the face of hard work. That would tear me up inside.
I feel like reading everything, I can see where the misunderstanding happened, but instead of saying, "actually, I wanted X instead, can you change it?" she said "this isn't what I wanted and actually it sucks and you're bad at this" and proceeded to fall out of the communication tree and hit every branch on the way down
i kind of get that the vtuber wanted a more "persona on ps5" style and got "naruto on gamecube" instead, which is clearly the vtubers fault for not checking out the style of the artist enough, before commissioning her.
The artists has art that looks more like "persona on ps5" as their showcase, the client literary did the homework but the artists assumed she did not and wanted a realistic thing. So in place of saying no or making sure to confirm it, decided to make work they don't usually do as a "learning experience" and now everyone in the comments seams to be dunking on the client for the one thing she did right in this whole mess. Have a nice day!
@@TheJustifiedDevil you forgot the part where she asked the overlay to integrate the ai 3d looking anime background which can't match the previous work style. The artist succeeded in making the 2d assets match with the 3d looking background which is impressive. She couldn't keep the backgroung and expect the same result as the previous work. It's like asking a "persona on ps5" but insisting for a "naruto on gamecube" asset to be integrated to it which wasn't what happened, she sent the "naruto on gamecube" asset and asked for something that would fit it with NO MENTION of "persona on ps5"
@@Axiasart ^THIS. The artist's only mistake was working 'too fast' - imagine that being your only valid complaint for a commission and crashing out THAT hard over it. Even if the artist didn't understand at first, they offered full rework and adjustments and asked for feedback several times. They were damned if they did, damned if they didn't. Yuko was constantly shifting the goalposts and expecting the artist to read their mind and pull it out of their highly guarded mind palace like they're chris angel mindfreak.
@@TheJustifiedDevilfirst of all, Yuko wanted the overlay to match with the realistic background, so it is normal for Lycqn to assume Yuko wants something more 3d-ish looking, even tho it could've been solved with simple communication. Secondly, Lycqn offered to start from scratch FOR FREE and make it how Yuko wants, just for Yuko to refuse it and then get angry when Lycqn wants to keep the money worth their efforts.
unrelated but what is what some people’s obsessions with japanese culture… like asking for a “creepy japanese-y font” and a shrine for your stream aesthetic is so strange … i understand wanting a creepy cemetery vibe but why specifically japanese?
There are a lot of people in and adjacent to the gaming industry that fetishise Japanese art and culture beyond appreciation. Mostly, it's appreciation. But I get a disrespectful vibe from her aesthetic and approach (kitsune are scary, yes, so why is she drawn with a lot of stereotypically sexualised anime girl elements? And they're not the MOST creepy Japanese scary spirit, not by a long shot - they are just highly sexualised and publicised in Western associated media) She doesn't even appear to know what WIP stands for, or that the internet can be utilised to look things up, not just exploit artists and other cultures.
For me, I'm just a massive fan of the beauty in tradition. Japanese culture just has a lot of tradition withheld in it that the U.S. doesn't quite have. Ranging from practiced tea ceremonies to floral arrangements, and the idea of security in self-modesty. Yokai folklore is just interesting to some people. It's more of an equivalent to people being obsessed with specifics like BigFoot or Mothman.
@@angelalovell5669 To some extent, agreed. Which is why I'm not a huge fan of anime becoming mainstream to the West. Made asian foods so much more accessible and normalized tho like boba tea or ramen, which is nice. However, the constant perversion of asian culture is extremely infuriating. Especially the total disregard to Japan and actual Japanese people. Because of anime's now mainstream influence, situations like Logan Paul, or Johnny Somali, and others will just get continuously frequent, because it'll create a massive misconception of the people and the country. A street localized to Geishas had to be shut down due to constant harassment. As for the disagree, to some extent there is some lore about kitsune's taking on an "alluring" appearance to lure in young men into stuff like getting married. So it's kinda whatever with it being stereotypical, however, bc it's stereotypical, the highly sexualization of them has just been annoyingly over done. There's just no distinguishment like Shylily or Bao. If they altered Yuko's colors to any other kitsune yokai, what would make her realistically different?
anime is quite popular but japanese horror is to me the scariest horror, a lot of this is around the religious part of the culture, so it's no unusual for creepy stories to be based around a shrine also that culturaly some spirits/yokai were considered gods
What a nightmare comm scenario to be in.. The art was straight up museum-tier level in quality even for WIPs, i'm genuinely shocked that anyone could be unhappy with it and even request AI art *over* real art,, so sorry this happened
can anyone explain what software is used to make stuff like overlays and stuff like that? since it doesn't require drawing it made me really curious about trying myself
7:52 there's a part in that long complaint, Paragraph 2, where the vTuber legit says "You know what costs me the same? Shitting. I spend lots of time and effort, and no one pays me 300 for that, because in the end, it's still shit." Nasty, nasty personality.
I think Yuko should’ve left the chat as a lantern and not a shrine, it would make more sense for there to be a translucent lantern than a translucent shrine! Then they could’ve gotten their background more visible without confusing their poor artist.
They won’t translate the document into English so the info they want to convey isn’t lost, but they can’t see how their commission that they made in English might have imprecise wording and invoke confusion?
I know that she doesn't like the style the artist made, but it suits her vtuber model. And the way she lashes out instead of communicating, makes me feel bad for the artist. She could have just talk but i guess she was just too pissed off. Even paypal is on the artist's side. The model of lykan is cute and bright, so it will be hard to be suitable for the "dark and mysterious" vibe.
this situation is just a client not actually knowing what they want, not understanding styles or art, not giving proper information, and then acting entitled for a refund she frankly doesn't deserve.
the document was very thorough, sure, but it felt more like the "character vibes" sheet than an actual direct request. I personally don't take commissions from people who do not know what they want... I once had a guy show me all kinds of "vibes" mood boards. and he asked me to draw his character in that vibe. but no references. at all for the character. so i asked him for character references... he said he sent the references (those mood boards) and i asked if he had a picture or description of his character, and he said "yeah! of course!" then like gave me five paragraphs about information on the character's motivations. I had to step back from it. I used to deal with people like that, but never again. Yuko was WAY out of line and INCREDIBLY rude on an inhuman level... the amount of fucking insults she throws at the artist like RIGHT off the rip is nuts! I would never tolerate her behaviour in my social group or my commissioners, shes fucking abusive. the fact that Lycan kept their cool through MOST of that until the end is commendable.
I saw this on twt and when I read the client side, the translation was full of insults that without a second thought I started to think they were the one in the wrong 😭 If there's problems like this, they should've approached it more professionally. Approaching it like what they did on twt not only looks bad but at first glance can only make readers look at you as the bad one... specially since the problem is not that big of a deal to insult someone that far.
The costumer needs to realize not every artist does commissions in the same way as every other artist. That could ALSO be a big part of the miscommunication.
This is axactly why I don’t do commissions anymore. I would always sell myself short and promise too much to the people who didn’t deserve that extra free effort. $300 for all that is actually insane…
Havent seen the whole vid yet but hear me out Yuko had a bill to pay she likely didnt remember about or got in the time of the commission and is taking it out on the artist to justify herself💀🤷🏾♀️ and thats the real reason she wants a refund.
out of all the drama i've seen you cover, this one really stressed me out more than anything else. "if anyone thinks i'm mean, get out of here" I'm curious is there anyone who can honestly say that she wasn't being mean at all? she's even bashing random unrelated bystanders and staffs just because she didn't get what she wants. if a client ever was 1/10th as rude to me as her, i would literally cry and be traumatized forever. even scammers do not get treated this badly lol
The vtuber is definitely in the wrong for acting the way they did but, I also feel like the artist could have done a better job. The VTuber also shouldn't expect an artist to change their art style for them and If they had a spooky scary model instead of the cute girly model it could have made it easier for the artist to know what they want. 1:26 vs 3:00 , 3:20 the shrines in the reference photos don't look like the shrine for the chat box. I think it was also wrong of the artist to use sympathy as a way to keep this commission when they knew that they didn't know how to do it, especially for so long. Both people we're wrong with communication and should have gone their separate ways instead of continuing this commission.
Yeah I think this is pretty much on Yuko getting in her head and going nuclear. I've had clients who had no idea what they want and it's part of the job to figure it out together but she didn't even give Lycqn a chance. I could understand and have some empathy with the situation but she was not only rude but unapologetic and doubled down on all of it. Seeing that she assumes the worst at every part of this it'd be a nightmare to deal with. I can see why artists would blacklist her after this. This is just speculation on my part but I think she may have seen that extra charge for revisions and assumed that ANY changes would be another $10. Those charges are normally for people who have an entire thing done and suddenly want a huge change that would be a lot more work. (ex. I remember once someone wanted me to draw their pets and after it was colored and shaded being like "oh can we change this one dog into a totally different one?") Like if you don't know that changing the colors/fonts ect. doesn't take much that she could think she'd end up paying a lot more than planned.
Thanks for sharing this story. This person would be a nightmare to work with and I hope I never end up with a scary client like this. D: The languages weren't English and Spanish, but English and Regina George. They were cordial at first, but very quickly shifted to snark and insults because of their frustration. Speaking only with anger and spite helps no one. If you need to get out those angry thoughts and feelings, vent to a friend first and then have them help you speak in a more appropriate manner.
Homegirl really said "My vibe is creepy and mysterious" and pulled out a generic anime kitsune with a clearly cutesy theme to it all. Lycan did an amazing job matching her style and she really went out of her way to be a nightmare client.
I set my alarm for 7:00 AM every day. I wake up extra early to hate!
Also from what little I saw, it didn't seem like Lycan's style is particularly creepy/dark, and neither are the assets given, so I'm not sure what *exactly* was expected as the end product?
@@nightmarehoundthis. I hate hate HATE when people view an artist’s work or portfolio, then request a style they obviously do not do often if at all, just to be unsatisfied. There are SO many artists who draw/create in so many styles, you do not have to go to an artist who doesn’t typically do what you envision… and if you’re going to choose to do that, don’t expect the same level of quality or experience if they’re obviously inexperienced in a particular style.
@ yeah it kinda always smells like ”i wanted x/y/z, but i want it cheaper”, and I get it, money is tight, but then you end up in situations like this. If you’re already going to invest hundreds of euros to something, then rather save up for guaranteed satisfaction for few extra hundreds.
Also if the issue was the lack of creepyness, I don’t see how this couldn’t be salvaged with desaturation/darker shadows/more red/simplifying the shrine.
>commission artist
>don’t specify how you want it
>get mad when it isn’t how you want it
>refund
exactly.
EXACTLY! This all could have been avoided if she sent the examples in the tweet over to the artist BEFORE. Cause wtf do you mean you chose a "surprise me" style commission & didn't provide examples of the previous ones that you liked most?!
Considering they said their grandfather is dying, I have a little more empathy for this.
But didn't she send a pdf with all she wanted?
@@mendozakarina23 yeah but its 'not how she wanted!!!!!' it 'wasnt the style she likes!!!!' and so on. so shes still pissy and upset
Do you have any idea how fucked the Client's claims must be for Paypal to side with a seller?
for real tho
Ye, especially when they rarely do that like super rare 😅
FR 😂😂
That's rare
Do non artists just think we can read their thoghts?? Like, i personally have no idea what it is she actually wanted from this artist, i might get the creepy vibe a bit more but other than that she is kinda saying she wants no changes but to also change everything, shes not being spesiffic at all.
She definitely assumed they would just immediately understand what *kind* of creepy she meant without any further clarification. To me personally the comm'ed art already had a cute creepy vibe, but Yuko didnt even clarify she wanted less cute more creepy until she wrote it out in her rage?? Creepy is a spectrum and the artist did the best they could with what they were given (plus it seemed to match her avatar perfectly!)
Frankly, artists here, I'm confused why are u all so locked in into defending the artists doing work like nothing they present in any of their showcase without confirming it with the client? Worse is that if a client would ask a artists to make something they don't usually make most artists would hate that practice so the client literary did the general good thing of finding someone who makes something they expect to get, assume they will make something in that style and then now, get people imply it was her mistake to expect that the artists would do something in the style of their usual work?
She was still rude, in the wrong overall and this whole interaction was dumb, but I'm in shock people are making the argument that it was bad to expect that with out going out of your way to demand the artists do their seemingly normal style, would make something in their usual style and not something that they are clearly not only used to do, but worse the whole medium it was made does not work for it.
Have a nice day!
Yeah, some clients don't really understand what they are asking from the artist, the sad reality of commissions ( T∀T)
@@TheJustifiedDevil While both sides are wrong and lacked communication, everyone is "defending the artist" because only the client was being unnecessarily mean and rude. that is the reason.
It‘s basically a mental image but they don‘t seem to be making an effort to try and convey it to the artist directly.
Dude, she describing her style as scary and serious/intimidating while having a model that LOOKS NOTHING like it is crazy. The artist did an amazing job matching her actual style to the background.
Yeah It‘s probably one of those ppl that wishes they could afford an expensive custom model and have a fancy background to add to it. Wich is gonna be difficult when you buy a work from someone who does asset collages for interfaces like streaming overlays. Realistically, she‘s have to get a seperate asset artist, collage artist and also a model designer and artist on top of that. But they probably didn‘t imagine how much that is worth in terms of money. Background art is difficult. So is interface art and model art. You can‘t get all of that for 100 that is why a lot of vtubers are signed and/or make their own art often. I get that it‘s frustrating but coming from an artist perspective, the way this person is not clear about their ideas, switches their ideas over and over mid progress, frantically starts to pull out the moment it doesn‘t go their way is a huge red flag. Yes. The commission taker did some bad things there and struggled with this but most of it seems to be with struggling with the chaos put on them, the asset nightmare and the expectations not to mention the insults. You just don‘t do that especially if a creative is still working for you. It‘ll reflect in the artwork wich u don‘t want. This is why I often tell ppl to pull out of it early if a client is being rude and chaotic about their wants cause better lose that gig than be treated badly and overworked by someone who doesn‘t respect you. Not to mention using an AI background and expecting the artist to just fix it for them. Something they never agreed to with this. It‘s like you walk into a burger king and ask for a wedding cake. What‘s gonna happen right?
this is what i thought too, it was so fitting
Yeah, the much emphasized moodboard's... well... mood is nothing like the model's. The model is cute shounen-style with saturated *orange* and *purple* colours (it reminds me a bit of Miko from No Game No Life). The background provided is also purple-ish. How did she expect that it would suddenly turn into a gloomy grayscale with bright reds is beyond me.
I don't see how she wanted it to be scary when it's a neko girl that's sexy/cute. Usually that isn't "scary". I think she didn't have a clear idea in mind and just pressured the artist hoping they would fix her lack of creativity.
Spaniard here. Yes, the Google translation tones down the rage filled tweets a lot.
oh yikes
Agree she sound more angry in Spanish.
agree
Yikes
isn't it Portuguese?
"Made by someone special to me"
- Made by AI
bruhhhhhhhhhhh
Her partner "edited" it for her (made it purple) which is such an easy fucking edit to do - that's why she's saying that. But every word from her mouth oozed her projections; ie. she's manipulating the story in her favor by twisting reality just enough to self victimize at every step, making herself into a nightmare client no one wants to side with or work with ever again.
Can we talk about how she paid for a SURPRISE ME background?? All she could've said was "I want my background to look like the ones you showcased!!". THAT'S ALL SHE HAD TO FUCKING SAY OMLLL 😭😭😭🙏🙏💀💀💀💀
NAH FRRRR BUT VRO MADE A 8 PAGE DOCUMENT LMAO
Right? like thats essentially a skeb commission so im confused why the artist didnt just stated that its a "surprise me" and if she wants a detailed commission, to commission in a different selection?
(I'm not on the client's side, but figured I'll add into this) She said in reply to some comments (I speak Spanish so for me it was natural to read) that she only used the skeb screenshot to show how the artist presents the work, but she actually commissioned fully custom designs. Some comments on the og twitter post also mentioned the skeb, and she clarified that she did NOT request a skeb. As to why she used the skeb service to portray the artist's style? No idea, same as I don't have any idea what this girl's issue is overall lol
SERIOUSLY. IF SHE KNEW WHAT SHE WANTED WHY DID SHE ORDER A GACHA ART COMMISSION WTFFFFFFFFFFF
@@WhiskeredNightfall she didn't though
I don't think this is a miscommunication issue, I think this is an attitude problem on yuko's part. It wasn't exactly how she wanted it on the first draft (because things are rarely perfect on the first draft), and instead of communicating the revisions she wanted, she karen'd out, told the artist their work is bad and they should feel bad, and forced a refund. She says she loves and velieves in artists, yet either doesn't understand the commission process, or just needed a quick excuse to get out of paying someone, for whatever reason.
I think some of her prior good experiences with artists are all AI compilers anyway, which makes sense that they didn't need to communicate much. Just had to run through a generator again.
@@chaplinfan6369 i understand your point but i can vouch that there wasnt any ai involved in the artist she worked with at least with the ones i have seen.
so dont disrespect our work that way.
I didn't spend hours talking to her on vgen to get the placement and colour of the talismans right for you to disregard my and their works so blantly.
respectfully i never dabble on controversy (as you can check if you want) but this reply is really rude and disrespectful towards the artist you seem to want to protect so badly.
@@misfresitalindasome of. There's no need to go completely insane over someone saying some of her previous commissions were AI because they factually were. Get your head on straight instead of going insane and being defensive. Nobody was even talking about you
Yuko’s supporters are delusional. Hope she remains small cus this is such a horrible thing to do. Glad PayPal was on the artist’s side.
That person is delulu anyway. That file that intro and all that…. Delulu all the way. Smells like cringe basement kid with a need for greatness with some money.
@@JigokuHebiin my understanding 'delulu' has a bit different definition. 'mary sue' and 'self-centered' seem to fit better.
Ngl, you know you done goofed when PayPal sides with the artist.
finally being a spanish speaker pays off 🙏🏻🙏🏻 Also yeah, the commisioner was MAD AF
4:17 This is like a joke i Guess? "Oscar" meaning the award, goes for what op said before about the artist whining and allat so they say they're proud of such talented actor meaning that op thinks the artist was just acting like a victim.
Literal
estuvo encabronada esa morra xd
Could you please tell me, from Yuko messages, original posts, and docs in Spanish, did Yuko really don't know what they wanted or was it just due to the language barrier that everything becomes rather "unspecified"? Thank you.
@@nadiada5484 In my opinion, Yuko did know what she wanted but maybe from the language barrier she wasn't able to express herself correctly to the artist and were kinda vague just saying stuff like "this vibe" or "something like this" idk how good is Yukos english so i don't know if this was a mistake from her part or if this is her way of talking
As an artist I *am* genuinely withering at how ugly what she was asking for would actually be. Flat (Semi-Transparent?) unshaded 2D on a mostly AI Generated *painted* background with a Vtuber model next to it.... the clash of style would make me deny a commission based on that alone. Style matching is a thing that artists do, because if you don't, it looks bad. It's ugly.
Gotta love non artists demanding artists make ugly art for them. And then get angry when it isn’t as ugly as they wanted it.
she seems to genuinely not know anything about art, what she was getting was so freaking beautiful and i would've been over the moon with the quality and effort behind it,, but what she wanted instead was just ??? nowhere near a good concept or better than the artists work
Haha, customer are always right, but also, my design professor always tells me that customers never understand what they need. So either you give them what they want, ie faster horses, or what they need, fukin cars.
But thats in context of design sooo idk
Yea and the artist really went the extra mile by adding more detail to fit the background
As an artist i am GENUINELY weird out by people saying that the client should be happy with what amounts to experimental work of someone trying to make 2d art look alike using effects only. Why the ... holy hell is everyone pretending that this is fine? What clown world is this? Its not to dis the creator, I'm sure they put in the work, but they basically stabbed themself in the foot making something they clearly were not experienced in.
I can get where the confusion came from, the client wanted a neon like stylish representation of a shrine and artist understood they wanted a realistic like shrine but ... this is unironically kinda insulting to the client indirectly. They basically assumed the artist did not even check what they put up and just decided to ask them with out considering that if they wanted to realistic shrine they would need to look for artists who do that kind of stuff. Worse is even if they did, you should push against such request in general this is literary behavior most of you guys commenting now would also blame clients for doing.
The whole interaction was dumb and the client was in the end rude even considering all this but could you not pretend this was fine?
Have a nice day!
I dont get why she got so upset about the WIP mark? like it was... a work in progress???
I think it upsets her because it changes the "refundable amount". She was not happy with the sketch and the artist continued without waiting for her go.
For her it feels unfair to have a different "legal setting" for something she hasb't agreed to in the first place.
@@miqolysa Except she did agree to it. Did you watch the video? lol. Her claims that the artist "went forward anyways" were false.
I don’t think she intended on paying this artist for their time and work in the first place. This is why she was all over the place with want she wanted granted English isn’t her first language but that still no excuse for her to properly communicate. She wanted this artist to get to a certain point in the project and file a charge back claim good thing PayPal saw through her BS
I think it was that Yoko didn't approve the artist moving forward yet and asked Lycan to hold off until she could communicate more but the artist continued anyways without her approval. (according to my understanding of the story)
@@rinaliny but she did, she basically said show me what these screens look like so i can decide what changes i want to be made... therefore they have to make those screens. she can't give the go ahead to show her what they were visualizing and then say she didn't give the go ahead to show her what they were visualizing. perhaps she didn't realize what she was asking for, but that is on her, not the artist for doing exactly what she asked them to do, which is show them what it would look like so she could decide if they went together like she wanted.
I hope no artist ever works with her again. What a nightmare. Yes, maybe the commission wasn't everything she wanted, but she needs to communicate edits like a normal person instead of going nuclear.
Woahhhhh cause they’re Spanish? God damn. Racism.
Thankfully for everyone she can just use AI art. Less trouble for everyone involved.
@@vyl5811 so AI art does have a use, to deter the Karens from commissioning artists, what a relief
I feel bad for the artist.
Omg same
fr
Yeah he made it perfect suitable for her character design too. What she wanted was very flat for her character design.
I wonder if she actually meant torii gate cause that’s what all her references featured which would have more of the vibrant red while shrines themselves are usually wooden buildings like the artist drew. If so it’s kinda extra messed up to try to drag someone online for your own misunderstanding
I was thinking the same thing 🙁
lmao, they're just mary sue, that's all. creating an oc with all those 💅japanese aesthetic💅 while not even being asian. even if we don't take her cultural appropriation into account: if she wanted such aesthetic, THE LEAST she could do was do a research on the culture. if you're gonna use a foreign culture as your aesthetic, at least use proper names and terminology instead of getting mad when someone else knows better than you 🤡.
This isn’t a client this is a unwanted headache
I don't know if it was intentionally done but Yuko was upset that they dumped personal circumstances but then did the same with their grandfather and school exams and their anxiety and depression? That makes sense how?
Exactly... Yuko was upset about having this happen while she's dealing with life problems but she's not even the one being commissioned to do work?? Her part of the comm is basically just to say "yes, no, i want this changed" while the artist is doing their JOB on top of having similar problems happening. But somehow the artists problems are irrelevant and should'nt have affected their work? That part made no sense to me at all
EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS like she said there r other problems in the world but then she's out here spewing her OWN problems after that sentence..what a hypocrite lol
I think the idea on Yuko's behalf was that the artist shouldn't be allowed to complain bc everyone else is also going through difficult times, using herself as an example. The main issue was that on top of everything Yuko has done, it just made her look like a massive Karen.
Some ppl are like that. It‘s why I kinda see them as karens. Expect you to have the patience of an underpayed casheer while they treat you like scum. It‘s this frantic „i‘m better than you“ attitude and a refusal to see someone they do business with as a person.
Because they did it first. Probably a 'let's see how you feel when I do it' thing.
Damn... As a full-time artist in the corporate world and self-employed, this is straight-up gaslighting and manipulation. Poor artist. The artwork is fine. To all aspiring artists, let me tell you: CHARGE MORE! You will never have problems with high-paying clients because they understand the process and book a pro for a reason-they want the work done. The cheaper the client, the bigger the problems. Also, by setting higher prices, you automatically filter out clients like these-it's a win-win!
omg this is so true even in healthcare fields...
i mean the price was already high. Some people are still willing to spend alot while knowing nothing about art or commissioning process
Holy shit, Yuko loses all credibility if she says that result is shit. We can all see what it looks like. Saying a beautiful four course gourmet meal looks like shit because you prefer the taste of fast food only makes you look like an idiot. Even if no one can say you're wrong if you do prefer fast food, you are wrong if you say that gourmet meal is shit.
this is the best comment i've read all day lol
...and which artist's work are you calling fast food here? the ones who made the art in her moodboard? the other style of the commissioned artist here?
seriously, whats up with the comment section... several people seem unable to criticize yuko without also inadvertently shitting on other artists. y'all are mean too.
@@AG-up7kx holy shit. Pull the stick out of your ass and stop looking for trouble. No analogy is gonna be 100% perfect. It gets the idea across if you aren't a complete dipshit.
@@AG-up7kx She literally uses AI. That easily fills for the "fastfood" bit. Use your head.
Um, the overlay that was shown is rather low quality? Can you not tell?
every couple months there is drama bc someone orders a surprise me and gets mad its a surprise design. if u dont wanna risk maybe not 100 liking the product dont order a surprise me. it is cheaper for a reason
*orders a surprise me*
*gets a surprise*
*rage* ... x repeat forever
the fact that she was willing to redo the whole thing for fre....
"i dont want drama" then dont start it 😭
as an artist myself and someone who commissions artists regularly, i have NEVER had to resort to callouts, because its an absolute last resort. i wouldve been SO grateful for the free revisions, and just politely ask for them.
Her cute colorful kitsune girl model doesn't fit the inspo photos of the black and white dark creepy stuff AT ALL. Same with the background she provided. Not even close! She says that's "her style" but its literally not.
She really did act like the WIP was the finished work. Very odd.
Some translations notes I will be making throughout the video just to help a little bit
I'm in minute 3:50 so far the way op is talking about the artist is gender neutral. Also "Now here is what you told me" is supposed to say "Now is when you cancel me"
7:52 again she's complaining about the work quality and she is stating that if you are a professional and now that you cannot deliver a certain commision or if you suddenly change you art style you must communicate it. Is worth adding that shes using a really accusatory language throughout
8:27 actually here she's talking about how the artist supposedly spent the money or an unfinished comm. Maybe giving a reason why she isn't getting the full refund?.
About the op starting by using gender neutral pronouns: Twitters-Googles translation automatically dictates that if there isn't a female or neutral spanish pronoun detected, it will always go for male pronouns instead. She always referred to the artist with very pissed manners (such as calling her tia, as in like, this girl)
@@dependingnameNow thinking about it “tia” if translated literally means “aunt”. So if someone is using it to add disrespect the google translate may make it sound colloquial by translating it to “auntie”.
Yuko's entire dramatic freak out about the situation is what makes them in the wrong here to me. It didn't need to be taken that far.
Literally, if they just said "oh I didn't wanted it to look this way can you change it?" Both of them would be happy
@@JustLora the artist already said she was willing to change everything, she refused.
It feels like Yuko spent the money before they realized a bill was due, so they took it out on this person to get the money back.
Oh you’re saying that cause you think Hispanics can’t pay bills or something?
This.
Honestly she doesn't sound like she understands what a WIP is? She got mad it was put into Work In Progress (WIP) mode, but the entire point of WIP is that the customer can make changes...
If they didn't like the WIP then they could've asked "can you make it the same but in the other style"?
At any point of all the reviews, revisions and edits she could've mentioned that she wanted the other style. I'm confused on why they never did despite seeing the WIP?
Edit: Also from the start this commission is listed as a Suprise Me commission. That means this commission is supposed to be artists freedom of rendition. Usually you get minimal to 0 revisions in these. Suprise Me commissions typically means the client has far less freedoms in the outcome. How much freedom is restricted is up to the artist in terms of how many revisions you get.
You typically give whatever info you need to the artist, they make whatever they want from it, you get it back, done.
In this case the artist had lots of revisions and even was willing to change the style back for the customer had they just asked normally.
Lots of suprise me comms are used for trying new styles too. Maybe this artist is using "Suprise Me" comms differently or something but it is very quickly mentioned and quickly forgotten here that it was a suprise me comm.
yes which is normal, they can't really except the same artstyle (especially when not specified) and revision for 10$ is great, but she even said she would redo it for free.
if a client sent an 8 page doc for a surprise me commission I'd cry
If I had a coin for when a orange fox Spaniard girl being an insufferable bad person, I would have 2, which it isn't much but it's curious it happened twice...
I legitimately have always had the most insane problems and backstabs with 'kitsune' women/femmes - Why is it always the kitsune divas? LMAO
COMO SE LLAMABA ESA OTRA UA-camR me suenaaa
@@ezzieta7522 Saya Kitsune
honeslty, spanish from spain is so funny to me, im reading everything in my mind with the accent and i can't stop giggling, i havent even pass the 10min lol she's using a lot of expressions that can't translate well/at all to english bc they are really colloquial, like using "tia" in spain is a way to say girl/woman in a informal way, like saying dude, but it also in general spanish it means aunt, so the translator goes with that lmao
or like in 8:20 "cagondio" is a shorter version of a "me cago en Dios" that, again, is an spain expression that can be translate in a literal form as "i shit on God" but doesn't really make the intended impact, i think the best translation for that it will be just "fuck", or in the context "she fucking cry", u know? idk what word the translation end of putting
@@sebmeowru I think the right translation would be "my fucking god" or "oh my fucking god" personally.
@@ohsarcasm yeah, u right, i can see that too ! in the end what it should came across is that she's cursing about the other person crying
@@ohsarcasmsiento que esto es más preciso
ooo when i kept seeing tia I was wondering if its similar to how in chinese you say "sister" or "brother" to mean girl or dude
If he did it themed as the mood board, it would counteract what she wanted to begin with... as someone who does take commissions, I can't tell what she wants at all.
Even in Spanish?
@zenmomLol she gave what she wanted to the other artist in English so I'm basing it off what I know unless she gave more info to the artist in Spanish I don't know about it
(I'm updating this as i watch the video 🗣️)
4:15 Yuko means that the artist is a dramatist, deserving of an Oscar, and that they(? cries as much as Yuko's grandmother when she sees Yuko eat the whole plate of food (the grandmother is proud that the plate has been eaten in its entirety lol)
7:54 summary: she would have liked the artist to have told her about the change in his graphic style, and she doesn't regret giving him a second chance when the artist told her he couldn't deliver the work on time, but Yuko says that family problems are not an excuse as everyone has them and that the artist is supposed to be a PROFESSIONAL xD. she also mentions that she has already endured 2 weeks of manipulation and that she is sick to shit of crying.
1:12:00 in Spanish it's 286494938 times meaner, yuko it's from Spain, soo 💀
Si si, con los españoles cuando se enojan me dan miedo
So he just didn't like the art? A surprise me is a surprise me.
Actually as artist I may sound controversial but... If I accept the commission and I get 8 pages doc of vibes, details and backstory, I'd most likely apologize sincerely and immediatly cancel commission with full refund. I had this type of clients two times and it was absolutly the same excruciating experience. They don't actually know what they want. They have some VIBE inside they mind and need the artists somehow catch it fully from some vague explanations about their character's backstory. And most of the time I'm actually good at catching the vibe and talking with client to understand them better...
But theeen they have also this 8 page doc that completely contradicting details and ideas and contains so much details they want to be included my brain starting to hurt only by trying imagine it and collect in one picture. Both times clients with docs like that demanded extra work and detailing they didn't paid for, intentionally told they are fine with rough sketches with simple background (examples showcased some gradient and shape of one piece of furniture) and then asking to detail the room and and some "crucial" details like windows with scenery and that one special rug that was gifted by one character to another (they included it to the doc, you see, why they even need to ask to add it?!) and a favorite vase of them and so on... One of them even tried to guilt-trip me into doing massive bacground scene with tons of characters!
So for me it always big potential redflag, especially if paired with obviously vague descriptions of the piece they want.
You are SPOT ON. The more anal and nitpicky and so utterly unclear while being OVERLY 'clear' the client is, the more likely they are to give you trouble and be an unpleasable princess diva about the whole process and try to weasel extra work out of you as if they are entitled to it because they paid for the original agreement and just retconned it into the contract in their mind palace.
Ya know what? i’m gonna adopt this practice. When a non-artist client is too detailed with their vision - they likely have a very SOLID image in mind that no artist could possibly accurately replicate cuz we don’t read minds. What they want is for you to photocopy their vibe like- HOW??? Ever?
@@anonymousme3571 oh I had WORST job project I ever have with some newbie indy game studio literally because of this. My friend was art director and asked if I want to join. They paid WAY below my normal rates but project sounded really cool so I decided... well, I can at least have fun and get exerience with that type of game I want to try to do myself. Maybe find investor/coder for my own project or at least learn the pipeline better. Well...
That was shitshow. There was two screenwriters with strong VISION. Both right from the college, never worked in the industry but somehow found the producer and investors (never been in the industry too!). Somehow they also got full control to make they VISION true. Both was like 22 or so. and problem was they couldn't flesh out they VISION even with goddamn clear references (while gave us tons of text descriptions) and when they could... it ended up not the right references because "not the right vibe". They gave us funcast of character. I sketched him and they approved the sketch and when I lined it they was shocked he looked too manly (reference was literally block of rock 6,1 height 207lb guy with beard and blocky face XD) and they asked to make him less build up and soften the features. Well, after rounds of corrections (while I'm mostly DON'T do corrections to the line of the approved sketches and I was not hired for hourly rates) art director involved and did corrections herself word by word what they asked and it ended up looking like young Jensen Ackles. By this time we both (me and art dir) was shocked because literally what the fuck?!
Also background was shitty photoshoped photos. And they was completely ok with it, they VISION was not about backgrounds apparantly.
So I said to the producer they never will finish that game without proper pipeline. It's art director who should decide on visual style and character's appearance. In the line of the story but still... it's not up the screen writers to decide any tiny details of it. Maybe market team can also join to decide better what they focus audience would like. Still not unexperienced screen writers. Fuck, I had more experience in writing then both of them XD
So I told them I did them favor and lowered my rate not to listen shitty feedback of two rookies who can even formulate it constructively and politely. And I quit XD
My art dir friend quit too but collected really good amount of hourly pay for rounds and round of corrections and attempts to figure out they VISION. They hired some student after me because "she asked less then our budget!" Well, guess you never commissioned big work from young unsalted artist that have work and studies besides your projectб lol. Yes, they ask 15$ for character illustration but you'll wait for years to get your 20 characters done.
The game was never realised.
I speak spanish and the commissioner seems like an absolute turd of a person. There was no need to get so personal with the insults towards that artist just because they didn't like the end result.
This is wild. Commissioning art is a COLLABORATION. Communication is so important. I've had poor experiences with artists in the past, so this definitely goes both ways, but it sounds like this client got one sample back and threw their hands up like the whole thing was a bust. Such a solvable issue.
This reminds me of a story my father told me. About a person wanting a curtainless/glassless shower. With a celling showerhead in the center of the shower. When the person hired a constructer to build that, he declined. The person was upset and hired someone who was willing to make what they wanted. After it was built, the person realized the water splashed everywhere in the bathroom and made a mess. They blamed the new constructer for doing a "bad job".
The reason why this commission made me think of this is because the person asked for red/black colors, but the artist knows it wouldn't match the Vtuber design. If the Vtuber got what she wanted, she would have realized how ugly it was and wasted everyone's time. Just like how the first constructer declined the job because he knew the design would cause the water to splash everywhere and instead of wasting everyone's time, and getting a bad review, he declined the job. The customer isn't always "right". Their fantasy version of what they want might not work. But when it doesn't work, they blame the artist (constructer) for doing a bad job.
If someone handed me 8 pages worth of scattershot references all with completely different utterly confusing clashing vibes for a singular commission I’d just delete my whole account at that point. Not helping things is this vtuber’s flagrant refusal to elaborate and their horrible attitude. And all this OVER A SURPRISE ME???
For everyone saying it's the artist's fault for creating it in the wrong style, see this part 1:08:58
TLDR: The biggest technical problem with the art here is in the difference between 2d and 3d style which was NEVER communicated. and while the artist's past work is in 2d style, the client asked to incorporate a 3D background, which will only be natural to add 3d design elements. this just shows the level of skill of the artist, because adding 2d flat shapes to a 3d background would have no overall harmony. Ideally they should have discussed that before starting it though.
The second biggest technical problem was the color palette, but literally her mood board only had white black and red, so the "orange lanterns" are literally just a red glow tbh. and yeah those could easily changed to other colors if she just asked.
Their previous style and current work are both technically 2D art. Vector art is different than illustrative art. Vector art is still considered 2D, 3D would be something like Blender rendering. Yuko probably wanted illustrative art, which is something that the artist doesn't do. Vector stylization uses a lot of simplicity in object designs, which to the untrained eye looks "easy to make." Which is why Yuko threw a fit about it looking low quality, when in actuality, if the artist created this in something like Adobe Illustrator, it takes a lot of technical skills. Vector art and Illustrative art would be art _styles._ 2D art vs 3D art are different _mediums._ But overall no, it's not the artist's fault for creating it in the wrong style. They played to the best of their abilities. It's Yuko's fault for going to an artist with that style and expecting a different reality.
@@complainx3 you're right about the 2d and 3d, I just meant the stylization. but yeah art is very subjective and nuanced so it's very difficult to describe with just words and even references. That's where the whole miscommunication came from in the first place. Even if I try to understand Yuko's side and say, even if it's the artist's fault for not communicating their artist vision, she also lacked proper communication. The just needed more revisions to the WIP.
It does not justify her rude attitude, her public callout post, her chargeback via paypal.
Haven’t gotten this far in the video yet but oh man, I didn’t even realise that the style change most likely was to accommodate to the background. That honestly explains the style change a bunch
Yuko said she didn't necessarily want to keep the AI background but to be used as an inspiration for a new one in the artist style shown on her portfolio, and that's why she also asked beforehand if the artist was willing to take the commission before paying.
@@atodeblue yes like Kat said if she wanted something similar to the artist's previous works she couldn't have the background integrated. So from the start she was damned to choose between the previous work style and the ai background.
As a Puerto Rican and both English and Spanish speaker, she is infact very much angry in those posts where Google Translate doesnt portray through well.
Yeah I think you were correct about how yeah, I can see how that wasn’t what she wanted , but at the same time she could have just asked for more revisions but she completely flipped out instead. And yeah, while I’m nowhere near fluent in Spanish I know enough to know those swears were definitely in the original text
as a spanish speaker she sounds WAY more angry than the translation, but otherwise it’s pretty good for Google translate
6:36 “he doesn’t like gucci anymore” 😭😭😭 in spanish saying that something’s gucci is like saying it’s good, so what Yuko meant there was “she (the artist) doesn’t like me anymore”
I'm going to be very frank about this, but as a english speaking artist, i have NO IDEA what the person wants and is even complaining about cus in my eyes the artist did everything the commissioner asked for. Apart from the haunted creepier vibe thing not being fulfilled but the hell does she expect? The artist is known to do simpler cuter style for her work and her stuff IS more vibrant but yuko's moodboard is so dark.
I think I get what Yuko wanted. She literally wanted the sketch but instead of red lines it's bright purple lines. She didn't want an actual shrine or lamps just the stylized outlines.
I mean they didnt communicate that they wanted it to be spooky? Also they ordered a "SURPRISE ME" commission! They dont need permission to move on and they give artist full creative ability.
asks for creepy japanese vibe, but has the most generic anime girl avatar
'I've made things very clear to you,'
where? I've yet to see clarity from Yuko, honestly.
there are two things true about why the client is angry: is what katliente said about working fast and not showing the wip correctly and how this style looks so different from the usual they have on vgen!! BUT this client is so difficult, so mean and can't communicate correctly omg
edit to add: It feels like she thought they were trauma dumping her but I dont think that was the case at all, the artist just explained it was a difficult moment!
Also, also, why she payed like 300 when the surprise me is 80???
on vgen u put a base price which is shown on the commission and then put add ons that only show when putting in ur order. most likely u can add different screens as add on which added to the final cost
I don’t think she ordered the surprise me because the artist is showing works just progress, the surprise me is just an example of what the artists advertised style is like
The way that Yuko just takes any chance to insult Lycann's work and then themself is utterly disgusting 😭 like we know you don't like it but that doesn't give you the right to try and be funny ab it
For anyone that's confused over the translations:
"tía" in Spain is a way to call any girl.
La tía = the gal
Esta tía = this girl
Twitter translates it as "aunt" because in latin spanish "tía" is only used for "aunt".
i dont like how they sent wip and ask for revisions, revisions were sent, but then after it was mark as complete, they now say they hate it and its not worth the money, why did they not say something at first time it was sent before the revisions. They were never clear at any point of what exactly they wanted. the most they gave were "vibes" and never once ask for specific changes that they didnt like to be made. just went straight to refund.
I hate how many vtubers treat artists. This community is built on artists and yet they’re treated like shit. You don’t communicate what you’re unsatisfied with and you end up ~shockingly~ unsatisfied? Time to make a callout! Not to mention the ai shit, how are you gonna be in a community once again, built off the backs of artists, and have the audacity to use ai? Moodboards are a thing, people.
knowing spanish it's so helpful rn, el chisme va a estar completo raaa 🗣️🗣️
yo tambien pero honestamente el español de lo españoles es difícil de comprender aveces 😭 what is bro yapping about???
@@ohsarcasmit's difficult, but so funny at the same time 😭 they slurs are so xD. anyway, i have a comment summarizing everything uu
La vdd fue una sorpresa que tmb hablase de una funa en español 🤑
@@ohsarcasm soy española nacida en españa y hasta me cuesta a veces entender nuestras propias expresiones, como la de ''gucci'' (que viene de guchi, que significa guay o que padre) o ''de cojones'', siento que para una supuesta ''funa'' a un artista que utiliza mayoriamente el ingles, lo hizo un poco a proposito para joder aun mas la traducción automatica de twitter
@@dependingnameNo es lo de gucci una expresión adoptada del inglés? Lo típico que se hace popular y la gente de habla española lo adoptamos a nuestro estilo. No creo que podamos contar eso como expresión española HAHAHA Pero si que es gracioso saber que hay gente de incluso españa que pueda no entender ciertas expresiones, lo entiendo de gente de latinoamerica ya que el español de cada uno es muy distinto pero se me hace muy gracioso cuando ocurre hasta aquí. Also no creo que lo hiciese con la intención específica de joder, osea no lo defiendo pero tipo, no creo que haya llegado a tanto su rama de pensamiento JAJAJAJA
For someone who accused the artist for being manipulative (inprofessional) with personal stuff, they did the exact same, she literally brough up her situation mutiple times. like what? the hipocrisy! And also how did she not consider the laguage barrier instead of being so sarcastic, ignorant and mean? it is a comunication issue but she just wants to prove the artist is stupid. and also doesn't try to solve the issue at all. it isn't really a laguage barrier because for me, from all around we can see this person is just mean and didn''t really wanted anything.
Wait wait wait. 5:50 The artist did such a good job IMO. The background matches the vtubers model well. All together it looks really cute and has a great atmosphere to it. I can understand that if it wasn't what they wanted, but for the vtuber to say that it is so bad is really out of line. And especially for them to bring the drama online is so uncalled for.
Important red flag for any artist: If a client sends a wall of text and multiple "reference" documents, you will never ever satisfy their demands no matter how much they pay, they dont want your work, they want a slave.
Reading a wall of text is part of your time, if they don't consider that as a lack of respect for your person then that's a nice give away they just don't respect you, and to top it off going for your lowest tier pricing.
Artist isn't clear of fault either, emergencies happen and its understandable but never ever make it your clients problem, just like they should respect you, you should respect their time too. Everybody has problems so be responsible with your deadlines and be clear about your deliveries
Ok but they didn't make it about them or their issues, to me it feels very much like they were trying to explain and ask for a little understanding in the time they were taking, also it was statede by the client in the eeext messages that they, I quote "didn't care about a deadline" and that the artist should "take their time".
Nah, that's def aggressive even in spanish, maybe even more than the translation 😭
Edit (for parts with no translation):
6:13 The one from VGen watching the dispute
7:55 "If you are an 'artist' that wishes to be valued for your work and time, value your client, be honest. If you didn't read my commission, or you dont know how to do it, or you changed your artstyle from night to morning, COMMUNICATE IT (Say it). Do not give a onesided work for good (basically don't consider it dont if the other party doesnt agree) if the person who bought it hasn't said sh** (even less if not even a day passed).
I don't regret not having given a second opportunity to a person who once asked by me for explanations and who I showed empathy for their situation at home, gave me excuses (replied to me with excuses). A PROFESSIONAL, do you know what's money and what it costs to gain it, and if you're not in the conditions I don't mind waiting till you are for you to give me the quality you promised me (basically saying that they are fine if they take their time till they deliber the promised quality), but don't tell me about your familiar problems (not sure about this word) as if you were the only one who goes through every pain of the world (these last 4 words are inaccurate, they used a figurative language that I find it hard to translate, in my language it goes "Tutte le pene del mondo") bothers me and a lot. For a long time and efforts... (I GIVE UP HERE, SORRY)" Summary of the text: They are upset that they spent a lot of money when the artist could have just not taken the commission if they couldnt deliver what they wanted. They also accuse the artist of having manipulated them (then the rest it covered by cam). Ehm ehm "Do you know what costs the same? Sh*tting" 😭
Me from the future, IM CRYING... The message got translated later on 💔💔💔
Still, great effort :D
I appreciate your effort :)
I think I understand what it was she was asking for but it was conveyed so horribly that I can see why the miscommunication happened in the first place. Both parties were in the wrong for different reasons.
Commissioner for not providing clear direction during revision
Artist for not waiting or asking clarifying questions
to be fair there was little confusion to have about the part of the commissioner. If you take it word for word she indeed did what was asked and was willind to restart when the mistakes were pointed out
This is why if you have a language difference between an artist and a commissioner, you should invest some time to at least look into a translator to help both parties. There are people that may even help for free out there, and you could probably avoid a lot of these issues.
DeepL is literally *right there* and works well enough for 90% of use cases
Ergo I'm agreeing with you
@@tanukigutsDeepL saving my ass on Skeb, bless it lol 😭
1:01:53 This is the most frustrating moment for me, the client is like “I thought your sketch looked shit but I let you cook” as some kind of “I tried to be nice to you” gotcha, when if they had just said “It looks like that lamp will cover my background, is it going to be translucent or something?” they might have solved the miscommunication
I would say for the artist as well (more of a word of caution to myself) it might have been good to explicitly say what they were doing next, like “Ok, I will make the changes you requested to the Starting Soon screen and send you the final file” “Here is the chatting screen WIP, do you have any revisions/this is just a progress update and I will send you the finished piece in x days” so the client has a chance to say “wait I haven’t approved that!” But hindsight is 20/20 and we’ve all heard of the opposite clients who ignore the artist and then complain that they didn’t read their mind to know they should finish the piece, so who knows…
Yuko’s tweets and her character lore (“putting people in their place”) reminds me of an edgy kid in middle school ngl 😭😭😭
> Gets told it is a draft, nothing is final.
> Obviously doesn't know what the word "Draft" means
A WHOLE HOUR?? THANK U QUEENB
This is surprisingly triggering. I had a similar situation once, when I got the opportunity to freelance as a 3D Artist. My employer was a kind woman, who acted extremely friendly towards me. She wanted me to create assets for a forest and sent me a few reference pictures of trees in various different styles, from lowpoly to detailed. I made a total of 3 different trees that I worked on whenever I got home at night from my day job and each time she had something new to criticize. She then did the same thing Yuko did and just sent me a message that we needed to talk about my work, which resulted in her firing me.
I tried to stay rational during all this, but honestly, that whole situation was so stressful,
especially because I wanted to deliver good work on my first job.
Without trying to be dramatic, but I think it traumatized me.
We are just people, not mind-reading machines.
Ur art is pretty
The commission looked amazing to me. The commissioner was being so rotten. I've had problematic commissioners, but this one is on another level. That person in particular is rotten. If I were watching them previously, finding out about this would be an immediate unfollow.
fr. ive done very few comissons but ive had one person in particular waste my time entirely, use the model once, delete the stream, and never even credited me (on top of that they traced the vtuber model id drawn to create an implied nsfw image + lots of other issues)
while i do agree there are issues on the comission overall, it is the commissioners job to let the artist know if there is a problem.if they struggle to communicate (totally valid.) then do not blame the artist for things you wanted changed if you couldnt tell them you wanted it changed.
the person who is bashing the artist, i would never want to work with.
@@Puffy_jpg exactly, all of that in addition to the artist, without push back or complaining, going the extra mile to create art assets for them, even though it's explicitly stated in their terms that illustration is not a service they offer.
Doing all of that extra work, feeling proud of it and excited to show the commissioner, then being met with insults toward their skill is just incredibly sad.
I also can understand it not going the intended direction, but artists are used to it... It's par for the course in doing commission work, as long as it doesn't get into scope creep territory. The crazy part is the only thing "wrong" was the art direction. The commissioner attacked the artist's skill, when it was done incredibly well and skillfully. It literally was only the art direction that didn't jive, and that has nothing to do with technical skill, which they clearly have.
So sad to see an artist treated this way. And the AI reference stuff irks me so bad. Yuck. But I understand they're trying to distance themselves from that, but....
My own 2¢ that's built on nothing but my opinion - pulling this stunt here makes it feel like it's a publicity thing to try to make commissioning artists look bad and to create excuses to continue to use AI. Maybe they were harassed for it and they want to make it look like they "tried" or something. But it's more likely I'm reading too far into it. I just don't understand the reaction at all and I'm trying to make it make sense.
I think part of the issue with the lanterns is that in the sketch they were square like the one in the background, and in the finished work they're paper style.
The final product doesn't look bad at all. But I also see the problem that it doesn't really resemble the moodboard much, which, as you said, is a lot darker, more dark red, blue, black and a touch of white and very 3D. While it has the elements provided, it does not have the same mood.
So they're very different in terms of that, even if the version sent is not at all ugly nor does it necessarily lack the requested elements. Which probably created the miscommunication. Because a moodboard does not mean it all needs to be the same. The moodboard gives dark youkai vibes, maybe like an abandoned shrine or temple in the woods or on a mountain, the other feels more like a lively festival in the evening/night.
The communication was clearly very off here from the commissioner's side as well though and her reaction was worse than any mistakes the artists might have made. I feel the artist went with the brighter colors of the model to match it and the background and what they wanted to try and knew how to do, whereas the VTuber wanted the complete opposite in terms of colors, and not 3D. Whether it fits their model is up to the client in the end but I understand why the artist thought they wanted something to match their model more.
Because artists tend to think more about what fits together whereas a client may have a vision that's not really fitting in reality with what she already has and wants
So both should have communicated better but the Yuko most definitely was wrong for filing a chargeback without any time given to change a thing and on top going on a really rude rant, disclosing personal information, while not even giving them a chance.
It's okay for an artist to say "I wanted to challenge myself" and the commissioner to answer "I'm sorry, I appreciate the effort but I really wanted something more like this, this and this. It does not look bad but it's not what I described, which is this and that, so I would be grateful for a revision."
However, the commissioner also should know that WiP means Work in Progress. So even an unapproved sketch means the work is in progress. To me, WiP just means the artist started my commission. Nothing more, nothing less. It is no finalized sketch nor drawing but just to give people an idea that you started. It doesn't mean that no revisions are possible anymore.
I understand being disappointed by the final product not capturing the vibes they wanted. There is unfortunately always a risk when commissioning a person who doesn't live in your head that some discrepancies will happen. Not to mention that it's often impossible to recreate a vision 1:1. Maybe also choose an artist who has made similar things and especially be upfront about what you do and don't want.
The commissioner needs to be as clear as possible in what they want, especially with language barriers. And the artist needs to be upfront about what they might not be too great at yet. But the client needs to say what they want and give time for revisions the most. This is not the artist's fault. And filing a chargeback immediately without allowing the artist to change it is low. Because art is always a process, not a 1 to 100 acceleration without stops.
However, I also want to say I'm not a fan of people bringing up their personal struggles as explanations for issues but I also have to say they handled that well by admitting that and providing a solution. I'm truly sorry for them and life can always come in-between, I'm not denying that as a disabled person myself. But it's good to acknowledge that personal problems can't always be thrown in to be granted more extended deadlines, patience, lenience, etc. because the client is paying for a service after all. So Lycan reacted well despite bringing up their situation.
While we all can't predict everything, it's important to either be upfront about potential delays or be more generous with deadlines to start with if you know your health isn't well. Like 1 month is indeed very short, especially if they also had other clients or finals, etc. If you fear you can't make it and the client can't wait, then it's not a good fit.
I recently had a comparably simple art commissioned but even that took 2 months. Which was fine as the deadline was generous but she took her struggles into consideration, allowing suitable revisions at every stage, etc.
I know these personal struggles. I'm sympathetic toward their circumstances. But I've seen these arguments used way too often even by scammers and it's understandable to be wary while still being understanding. Mainly because we all have our package to carry and a lot of money is still on the line. With all these scams, it's not unusual to be anxious.
This is not to say the artist is entirely wrong here. Not at all. The VTuber's reaction was way too abrupt, over the top and harsh without giving the artist any chance to change a thing just because the first draft wasn't what she wanted. Which could have been communicated. It would be one thing if the artist had refused any changes but it doesn't seem like that at all.
While a certain amount of revisions should be included as long as it fits the stage of the drawing, the artist definitely should have waited for approval. As an artist, I would likely ask one time too many than one time time too few. Just so no work is done in vain because revisions are always harder to do.
But the VTuber also shouldn't ever resort to such extreme language. Yes, the artist also made a few mistakes. That happens. But it does not warrant such a drastic response, especially with how compliant they were to make it right for the client.
Communication is hard. Especially across languages. But the client needs to consider whether they can convey what they want in the artist's language as clearly as possible or misunderstandings are bound to happen. It's already hard at times to envision what someone wants just based on words, even if perfectly articulated. But if they can't communicate it well, the artist can only make an effort. Lycan should have taken a step back and taken it slower given that Yuko doesn't seem to convey her ideas well, but it would be wrong to blame Lycan entirely either. Or maybe they thought they understood but Yuko's wording was off.
Lycan undoubtedly put effort into the product even if it's a completely different style. Both made mistakes. But Yuko, in my opinion, made much wose mistakes than Lycan ever did, given that they could have adjusted it for free and even offered it...
I just don't like how Yuko immediately made it public, made no effort to give the artist a chance and then became way too aggressive right from the start.
You're right, they just both didn't properly communicate their vision, but in the end, that doesn't make it ok to treat someone so rudely. and that's why even though they're both wrong during the commission, in the aftermath, most people would say she is more wrong in this situation.
the moodboard itself is very different from the style of the previous work anyway with more depth, the background given also has depth so really can't expect something flat out of it also knowing the artist is more used to brighter and cute vibes should be more understandable about it and with how much revision they proposed, for something who doesn't even have a fixed date...
the artist herself pointed out her mistakes and was willing to fix them as shocker commissioners don't always get it right on the first try. While there was no direct "I approve this design" there was also no clear opposition to it and even after it wasn't too late for changes nor was there any urgency
@@Axiasart yeah, normal commissions progress usually goes like:
draft > client feedback > art WIP > client feedback > art WIP > client feedback > art final > client changes at this point may include additional fee
instead it went like:
draft > client feedback (ambiguous) > art WIP > client CHARGEBACK ON PAYPAL AND MAKE A PUBLIC RAGE POST TO DESTROY YOUR CAREER
yuko responded to the doc posted by the commissioner with her own doc that was basically just taking all of the commissioner's words out of context to defend herself.
the part that got me most was yuko posting "proof" that she asked the artist to wait to post the starting soon screen but the screenshot shown is just her suggesting that the artist should tweak some things and not right out asking for something to be changed.
commission artists cant read your mind, tell them exactly what you want to avoid problems like this.
Yea communication is always important I’m an artist and I have been working with a young lady from Indonesia who uses a translator to communicate with me she also does unlimited revisions and has been very patient with me thru my entire project. Whenever she messes up something I usually don’t state an issue until I know she is able to hear me out cause me and her are on different time zones so if it’s 2pm for me it’s 2am for her so I just try to understand the people I ask to do art for me😊💕 W video as always 🥰
as an aspiring artist as well, even with as little experience as i have i can see the references of lycan's previous works and yuko's backgrounds look NOTHING alike. they have completely different styles entirely. lycan did a great job style-matching imo working with something that didnt fit them at all.
53:45 Yukoyumetsu and the 8 pages…
I am late to this video but you should add the person who was working the commission in the description. That work was such high quality and if I was into vtubing I would hire them for my graphics design work. I can't comprehend someone spitting in the face of hard work. That would tear me up inside.
... did she understand what "Work in Progress" means...?
I think this is where the confusion came from but the VTuber got waaaaay too upset ; ;
She thought bc she doesn't like the product, everything the artist did amounts to basically nothing but dust, it's actually very mind boggling
I feel like reading everything, I can see where the misunderstanding happened, but instead of saying, "actually, I wanted X instead, can you change it?" she said "this isn't what I wanted and actually it sucks and you're bad at this" and proceeded to fall out of the communication tree and hit every branch on the way down
they bought the "surprise me" pack, they really have no room to talk ._.
i kind of get that the vtuber wanted a more "persona on ps5" style and got "naruto on gamecube" instead,
which is clearly the vtubers fault for not checking out the style of the artist enough, before commissioning her.
The artists has art that looks more like "persona on ps5" as their showcase, the client literary did the homework but the artists assumed she did not and wanted a realistic thing. So in place of saying no or making sure to confirm it, decided to make work they don't usually do as a "learning experience" and now everyone in the comments seams to be dunking on the client for the one thing she did right in this whole mess.
Have a nice day!
@@TheJustifiedDevil yep, nice comment, agreed
@@TheJustifiedDevil you forgot the part where she asked the overlay to integrate the ai 3d looking anime background which can't match the previous work style. The artist succeeded in making the 2d assets match with the 3d looking background which is impressive. She couldn't keep the backgroung and expect the same result as the previous work.
It's like asking a "persona on ps5" but insisting for a "naruto on gamecube" asset to be integrated to it which wasn't what happened, she sent the "naruto on gamecube" asset and asked for something that would fit it with NO MENTION of "persona on ps5"
@@Axiasart ^THIS. The artist's only mistake was working 'too fast' - imagine that being your only valid complaint for a commission and crashing out THAT hard over it. Even if the artist didn't understand at first, they offered full rework and adjustments and asked for feedback several times. They were damned if they did, damned if they didn't. Yuko was constantly shifting the goalposts and expecting the artist to read their mind and pull it out of their highly guarded mind palace like they're chris angel mindfreak.
@@TheJustifiedDevilfirst of all, Yuko wanted the overlay to match with the realistic background, so it is normal for Lycqn to assume Yuko wants something more 3d-ish looking, even tho it could've been solved with simple communication. Secondly, Lycqn offered to start from scratch FOR FREE and make it how Yuko wants, just for Yuko to refuse it and then get angry when Lycqn wants to keep the money worth their efforts.
unrelated but what is what some people’s obsessions with japanese culture… like asking for a “creepy japanese-y font” and a shrine for your stream aesthetic is so strange … i understand wanting a creepy cemetery vibe but why specifically japanese?
There are a lot of people in and adjacent to the gaming industry that fetishise Japanese art and culture beyond appreciation. Mostly, it's appreciation. But I get a disrespectful vibe from her aesthetic and approach (kitsune are scary, yes, so why is she drawn with a lot of stereotypically sexualised anime girl elements? And they're not the MOST creepy Japanese scary spirit, not by a long shot - they are just highly sexualised and publicised in Western associated media)
She doesn't even appear to know what WIP stands for, or that the internet can be utilised to look things up, not just exploit artists and other cultures.
For me, I'm just a massive fan of the beauty in tradition. Japanese culture just has a lot of tradition withheld in it that the U.S. doesn't quite have. Ranging from practiced tea ceremonies to floral arrangements, and the idea of security in self-modesty. Yokai folklore is just interesting to some people. It's more of an equivalent to people being obsessed with specifics like BigFoot or Mothman.
@@angelalovell5669 To some extent, agreed. Which is why I'm not a huge fan of anime becoming mainstream to the West. Made asian foods so much more accessible and normalized tho like boba tea or ramen, which is nice. However, the constant perversion of asian culture is extremely infuriating. Especially the total disregard to Japan and actual Japanese people. Because of anime's now mainstream influence, situations like Logan Paul, or Johnny Somali, and others will just get continuously frequent, because it'll create a massive misconception of the people and the country. A street localized to Geishas had to be shut down due to constant harassment. As for the disagree, to some extent there is some lore about kitsune's taking on an "alluring" appearance to lure in young men into stuff like getting married. So it's kinda whatever with it being stereotypical, however, bc it's stereotypical, the highly sexualization of them has just been annoyingly over done. There's just no distinguishment like Shylily or Bao. If they altered Yuko's colors to any other kitsune yokai, what would make her realistically different?
back in my day we called those weeaboos lmaoooooo
anime is quite popular but japanese horror is to me the scariest horror, a lot of this is around the religious part of the culture, so it's no unusual for creepy stories to be based around a shrine also that culturaly some spirits/yokai were considered gods
Thank you for sharing this, in the future though I would appreciate asking for permission to use anything I share publically for content
hello lycqn. your favorite mod here :3
I’m sorry about what happened. She seems rotten and the ppl on her side are delusional.
What a nightmare comm scenario to be in.. The art was straight up museum-tier level in quality even for WIPs, i'm genuinely shocked that anyone could be unhappy with it and even request AI art *over* real art,, so sorry this happened
You're very nice, I hope your stress and family worries will be easier to bear! Take care of yourself!
marabou bajs
It’s the Spanish woman with a name like Yuko Yumetsu that’s killing me 🤣🤣🤣
can anyone explain what software is used to make stuff like overlays and stuff like that? since it doesn't require drawing it made me really curious about trying myself
After Effects!
@ ahhh thank you!!
I’m at like 28 minutes in and so far this has taken a full 180 and I’m now on the side of the artist wtf
7:52 there's a part in that long complaint, Paragraph 2, where the vTuber legit says "You know what costs me the same? Shitting. I spend lots of time and effort, and no one pays me 300 for that, because in the end, it's still shit." Nasty, nasty personality.
I think Yuko should’ve left the chat as a lantern and not a shrine, it would make more sense for there to be a translucent lantern than a translucent shrine! Then they could’ve gotten their background more visible without confusing their poor artist.
They won’t translate the document into English so the info they want to convey isn’t lost, but they can’t see how their commission that they made in English might have imprecise wording and invoke confusion?
I count my lucky stars every day that I haven't had a nightmare client yet.
I know that she doesn't like the style the artist made, but it suits her vtuber model.
And the way she lashes out instead of communicating, makes me feel bad for the artist. She could have just talk but i guess she was just too pissed off.
Even paypal is on the artist's side.
The model of lykan is cute and bright, so it will be hard to be suitable for the "dark and mysterious" vibe.
this situation is just a client not actually knowing what they want, not understanding styles or art, not giving proper information, and then acting entitled for a refund she frankly doesn't deserve.
the document was very thorough, sure, but it felt more like the "character vibes" sheet than an actual direct request. I personally don't take commissions from people who do not know what they want...
I once had a guy show me all kinds of "vibes" mood boards. and he asked me to draw his character in that vibe. but no references. at all for the character. so i asked him for character references... he said he sent the references (those mood boards) and i asked if he had a picture or description of his character, and he said "yeah! of course!" then like gave me five paragraphs about information on the character's motivations.
I had to step back from it. I used to deal with people like that, but never again.
Yuko was WAY out of line and INCREDIBLY rude on an inhuman level... the amount of fucking insults she throws at the artist like RIGHT off the rip is nuts! I would never tolerate her behaviour in my social group or my commissioners, shes fucking abusive. the fact that Lycan kept their cool through MOST of that until the end is commendable.
I saw this on twt and when I read the client side, the translation was full of insults that without a second thought I started to think they were the one in the wrong 😭
If there's problems like this, they should've approached it more professionally. Approaching it like what they did on twt not only looks bad but at first glance can only make readers look at you as the bad one... specially since the problem is not that big of a deal to insult someone that far.
The costumer needs to realize not every artist does commissions in the same way as every other artist. That could ALSO be a big part of the miscommunication.
This is axactly why I don’t do commissions anymore. I would always sell myself short and promise too much to the people who didn’t deserve that extra free effort. $300 for all that is actually insane…
Havent seen the whole vid yet but hear me out Yuko had a bill to pay she likely didnt remember about or got in the time of the commission and is taking it out on the artist to justify herself💀🤷🏾♀️ and thats the real reason she wants a refund.
Considering how she constantly moved the goalpost and made it personal every step of the way? Yeah, I'd believe it.
How dare UA-cam hide this from me for 5 minutes.
31 minutes for me, the audacity
36 mins for me sigh
47 for me :
out of all the drama i've seen you cover, this one really stressed me out more than anything else.
"if anyone thinks i'm mean, get out of here" I'm curious is there anyone who can honestly say that she wasn't being mean at all? she's even bashing random unrelated bystanders and staffs just because she didn't get what she wants.
if a client ever was 1/10th as rude to me as her, i would literally cry and be traumatized forever.
even scammers do not get treated this badly lol
The vtuber is definitely in the wrong for acting the way they did but, I also feel like the artist could have done a better job. The VTuber also shouldn't expect an artist to change their art style for them and If they had a spooky scary model instead of the cute girly model it could have made it easier for the artist to know what they want.
1:26 vs 3:00 , 3:20 the shrines in the reference photos don't look like the shrine for the chat box. I think it was also wrong of the artist to use sympathy as a way to keep this commission when they knew that they didn't know how to do it, especially for so long. Both people we're wrong with communication and should have gone their separate ways instead of continuing this commission.
Yeah I think this is pretty much on Yuko getting in her head and going nuclear. I've had clients who had no idea what they want and it's part of the job to figure it out together but she didn't even give Lycqn a chance. I could understand and have some empathy with the situation but she was not only rude but unapologetic and doubled down on all of it. Seeing that she assumes the worst at every part of this it'd be a nightmare to deal with. I can see why artists would blacklist her after this.
This is just speculation on my part but I think she may have seen that extra charge for revisions and assumed that ANY changes would be another $10. Those charges are normally for people who have an entire thing done and suddenly want a huge change that would be a lot more work. (ex. I remember once someone wanted me to draw their pets and after it was colored and shaded being like "oh can we change this one dog into a totally different one?") Like if you don't know that changing the colors/fonts ect. doesn't take much that she could think she'd end up paying a lot more than planned.
When you called the Terminator a skeleton 💀
‘My style is serious and intimidating’ your character is a generic kitsune anime girl. No it isn’t.
yeah, she is on intimidating, dark and obscure in her own mind.
Thanks for sharing this story. This person would be a nightmare to work with and I hope I never end up with a scary client like this. D: The languages weren't English and Spanish, but English and Regina George. They were cordial at first, but very quickly shifted to snark and insults because of their frustration. Speaking only with anger and spite helps no one. If you need to get out those angry thoughts and feelings, vent to a friend first and then have them help you speak in a more appropriate manner.