I know this wasn’t easy to make, but your criticisms are so accurate and important, and your work is very much appreciated. Much like your DS3 Spellcasting Analysis video back in the day, I find these larger system review videos to be some of your most interesting work. You always bring knowledge and perspective few others can. I especially felt seen in this video with the criticisms of the co-op, which I maintain are by far the worst issues for the game’s ecosystem, and have direct runoff effects for invaders in terms of activity and that quality of activity. (Thanks for all the overleveleds - I hate them!) The last section about LOTF, with the audio fading to the background, was a bit humbling and a bit sad - very poignant I think. Almost all of us desperately want more from these multiplayer systems, and of course a small studio like Hexworks wouldn’t be the answer. But I think a lot of our optimism speaks to how much we feel we have lost in the big steps taken back between Dark Souls and ER. Elden Ring could be a lot worse, a looot worse. LOTF proves this fact. But at the risk of sounding like a doomer or a boomer (your call as to which is worse), going back to play DS3 always reminds me of exactly what made me fall in love with Fromsoft PvP - the clean system design, the fun and addictive combat fundamentals, the well designed invasion areas, the much greater variety of experiences afforded by covenants and dense level design, and the surprising variety of weapon/build options with some semblance of competitive balance and tradeoffs. When I take steps back, though, I see a lot of what ER did as direct answers to problems in DS3. I really do think that Fromsoft tried to listen to us, perhaps more than ever. They heard poise complaints, so they added passive poise. They heard solo host invasions complaints, so they took them away. They heard R1 spam and roll spam complaints, so they nerfed true combos (biiig RIP imo) and roll distance/s (overall a good change, even if leaves defensive options sorely lacking). There’s an aspect to this that is deeply admirable, and it shouldn’t be forgotten - ER was meant to be the (for lack of a better comparison) Smash Ultimate of Fromsoft. A massive title meant to appeal to all players, address complaints from diehard fans, and truly be something special and memorable. And yet something does get lost along the way with those kinds of ambitions. A certain polish and vision, a certain amount of depth. And it perhaps leaves Fromsoft with a scope that makes future patches and improvements near impossible to implement on a reasonable timeframe. These are easy things for players to get frustrated by. But I’d rather step away, take a break, and appreciate ER from an outsider’s perspective for a bit, than get angry about “coulda beens”. (Believe me though, I do still get a little peeved with the game, we’re only human.) But AC6 proves that From is still interested in small scale titles with intense polish and clear design vision, and I so very much look forward to whatever they make next. And when the ER DLC releases and online patch support ends for Elden Ring, I hope it’s in the prime of its life! Because I’d want to enjoy it as much as I can for as long as I can, even if I don’t like it nearly as much as their other offerings overall. Criticism videos like this are stepping stones to that beautiful, perhaps naive dream. So, A+ work, sir. You get extra credit, in fact. Because now that you’ve made this, I don’t have to make my own much less hinged rant about ER’s multitudinous multiplayer flaws. Taking work off my plate is truly the greatest gift of all.
Once again Fel, you truly have a way with words, you always bring some new insight or a different perspective in your comments that almost makes me want to go back and edit my videos to include. Btw I've come around to your way of thinking as of late with DS3 and AC:6. Sure there are aspects of Elden Ring that were missteps but Fromsoft doesn't strike me as a studio that's only moving in that direction these days.
Agree 100% but you forgot the most detrimental change IMO: The additional of a crouch button has seen the unfortunate decline of the Point Down emote and the despicable rise of the T-bag. Unforgivable.
TRUE nobody talks about this I hate the bags, just point down and move on. Get this first person shooter BS outa my game about knights and the monstrous creatures we can make in our character creation screens
I’m 30 minutes into this video and I just gotta say THANK YOU for nailing point after point. I really hope fromsoft sees this video and chooses to take action. I’ll finish the video now 😂
Great summary of the multiplayer issues. Anyone who has spent at least a bit of time engaging with Elden Ring's multiplayer would find that you touched on a couple of things that impacted their experience.
Im gonna leave this running in the back while playing Lies of P, so there is that view time for you, I hope there is no fancy edits, they would be wasted.Also great choise of music, I enjoy.
This is a fantastic video, there's not much at all for me to say because you've already said it. Extremely thorough, and I must say that having 99% of my gripes about my favorite game compiled and newtly organized in one place is extremely luxurious. While I am no clairvoyant, I do certainly hope that some of this is heard and taken into consideration for SOTE. You put a ton of work and care into this, and it's great buddy🌠 Oh and uh, just one more thing. **lights a Camel Turkish Gold** Frosty sent me here 👁️👁️
I really appreciate this style of video and I think there are a lot of people with the same opinion, but we can't send our opinion to fromsoft, idk just really want our voices to be Listened
I have so many things to say about the entirety of the multiplayer systems, and how they even affect the singleplayer systems, but I'll just keep it short with this: there is no Small Sign Soapstone equivalent, in a type of game (open world exploration) where that item would be perfect. But I'd also like to point out that, in 28 days, Armored Core 6 received 2 major patches, while it took almost double that, 53 days, for Elden Ring to receive the same support. It also took a long time for Elden Ring pvp to receive the features it needed, whereas Armored Cora 6 had a few hickups and that's about it.
I think that's entirely due to the size of both games. I feel that AC:6 is a dramatically easier game to patch because of it's smaller size and tightness, vs Elden Ring which is enormous. If you look at those first couple of patches for Elden Ring, those change notes are looooong
this is 100% the most on point criticism of elden ring out there, you nailed almost every point I will say I have a different conclusion about the game than you. I think Fromsoft did consider the multiplayer mechanic, but only from the perspective of a very casual, “I’m gonna give this a try and then move on to something else” kind of player, which is why we have certain items such as starlight shards in such limited supply, why the game doesn’t give you reusable invasion fingers right away, and why they just seem to not care about the extreme balance issues. I think their mindset is that 90% of people will invade maybe a half dozen times and then move on, so why bother polishing for the 10% who are probably gonna stick around anyway. Which is completely antithetical to their former philosophy with dark souls, and why they’re doing massive overhauls late into the game’s release such as the 1.10 poise rework. How they didn’t anticipate such a vocal response from their most hardline players is beyond me but I’m sure the piles of cash the game made for them cushions the feedback considerably.
An amazing analysis rofo, some really good points and very well written and spoken. I hope fromsoft gets wind of this video and takes on board some of your point's
Great video! This is an amazing overview of everything I've heard and thought over the past year and a half. My solution to hunters (which I first heard from JeeNiNe iirc) would be to allow solo-host invasions in dungeons when the host's rune arc is active, but to summon in a hunter simultaneous to the invader. This is how the Nerjius and Yura encounter plays out and I think it'd be a great way to have all of the benefits of solo-host invasions without throwing players into 1v1s against a much more skilled opponent. Coupled with this, make every single boss kill activate your rune arc. This would add an incentive to doing all of the side content, especially as a way to take a break from a harder boss and then return with an advantage. The one element of the multiplayer system which did iterate into the open world well was Summoning Pools for coop with randos (as of the changes in 1.06). I can get coop sessions anywhere in the world and have tons of fun. Their activation is tedious and doesn't carry over to NG+ though, but I sent a nuanced report to Bandai Namco about that so hopefully this one system can be fully great. Also covenants, please covenants. Ziostorm did a video about their potential already so check that out.
Elden ring's multiplayer feels unfinished things like two invading items that do the same thing and all the cut content hinting at covenants really seems like a lot of these systems like furcalling finger remedy were intended to have a more involved use but in it's current implementation i'd say Elden ring multiplayer is easily the worst of the souls series. The open world really exposes all the pain points even more. I really wish we'd gotten something better like you said the pve side of things is a masterpiece and i would've loved to see it get the same longevity dark souls 3 got from it's multiplayer.
I envy your resolve to just leave a dungeon unexplored. I not only explored every single dungeon possible but also did every single quest and everything in between. I was so incredibly burned out that it completely ruined my first run. The others weren't so different either. After taking a year long break, I've started a new playthrough and I'm still doing the same thing bc the world is too big to remember where all the necessary stuff for my build are. It's like a full time job. I come home from work and keep exploring the world until the run is finished, it's so depressing. I really wish this is the last open world game we will ever get. I usually endure non enjoyable pve for making pvp builds but considering the performance issues and activity on PC, I don't know why I keep slaving away. I guess I have a faint hope of upgrading my rig and enjoy the game against all odds or I'm just obsessive and need to finish what I started with this new build. Either way, I'm glad you and many others go through the dirty work to make content bc there is much fun to be had hidden deep below somewhere in this damn game but I'm not strong enough to dig it out at the moment.
no thanks, i hope they keep doing open world from now on, as the open world is just insanely better than their corridor and hallways simulator with shortcuts in between, no contest. going back to the older games now seems archaic and dated. why dont u just look up the things you want for a build rather than explore everything again? i dont understand the complaint that the world is too big when youre the one burning yourself out exploring literally everything when u dont need to. its like complaining about bloodborne cuz u force yourself to go through the chalices every time u play it, i cant even imagine always re exploring all content in any souls game when youve done that before, it just makes no sense, the game isnt at fault here, you are. hell in my first playthrough, i got burned out from all the crappy mines, caves and trap crypts the game has so by the time i got to lyndell i stopped trying to finish every cave i find, i just go in, light the grace and get out, i would explore them way later in the playthrough to just get the loot, i still would explore the mines with the red dots on the map cuz of upgrade materials, but overall all those red-spot dungeons combined wouldnt even be 2 hours of gameplay, and unlike bloodborne, they dont hide away the best loot in the game, and they have some pretty good bosses/minibosses by the end. the game has so much insanely good side content that i asked myself why i was forcing myself to play the bad side content. "I'm glad you and many others go through the dirty work to make content bc there is much fun to be had hidden deep below somewhere in this damn game but I'm not strong enough to dig it out at the moment." again, you could just look up the things you want for your build, rather than ask fromsoft to devolve back to their previous games level design. souls veterans man, u guys are a weird breed.
@@flamingmanure Damn dude, you must be some kind of genius. Really showing that 99 insight you got there but allow me to retort as a simpleton for all those who were unhappy with the open world design. First off, my main concern was my blind run. I was obviously not going to spoil the hell out of the game but rather explore the world as far as the game allowed me to. If they wanted me to skip 80 percent of the content, that should've been way more clear. You never know which generic dungeon will have a cool spell or just another Arteria Leaf at the end. As for the subsequent runs, playing a video game with a grocery list on my hand is not exactly the most fun way to play. Same goes for NPC quests. They definitely did not think things through. Open world aspect of the game was just under-cooked. It's cool if you liked it but no need to be that defensive about it. Crapping on other games, calling them 'corridor and hallways simulator' is just childish. Are you sure you did not absolutely hate every From game up to now or are you just being dishonest bc you liked ER? Because those 'simulators' completely revolutionized the entire industry whereas ER is just more of the same you know. The way you played the game doesn't look optimal either. ER has some amazing dungeons late to endgame and you end up burned out playing the crappy ones if you go through them like you said or you end up revisiting them way too overpowered when you return later. Unless you enjoy every single moment and think the pacing was perfect, your first run is ruined one way or another. There's just way too much content and only some if them are captivating enough. ER could've used a ton of trimming and it's way too obvious to deny. It's weird to see you praise the open world design while admitting to be burned out yourself. That's the point, you shouldn't have been burned out. BB comparison doesn't make sense either. First off, you're kind of forced to go through dungeons for several reasons. The gems you can get from the first few dungeons are the best ones you'll ever get from the main game. Also, there are some amazing bosses in the dungeons that you absolutely want to fight but you have to go through tons of generic and unnecessary ones to reach them. I didn't mind dungeons that much I liked going through them for some reason but at least ER dungeons don't have much going on so you feel better skipping them on subsequent runs. Look, I don't know if you're 12yo or anything and that you're just content with more is better approach but for those with taste and critical thinking, a more tailored, carefully constructed experience is not 'devolving' back to primitive ways. DS2 had way more bosses and content than all other games and it was absolute garbage when it comes to vanilla content. So clearly, the runtime being longer or the quantity of bosses is not the best metric to judge a game. The more a game is self-contained and dense, the more likely it is for them to provide consistently great experience. It's adorable if you like fighting 27 Ulcerated Tree Spirits but god damn you don't need to get so defensive about it. Let people have preferences. I want a solid, 60 hour first playthrough with tight content and you're okay with a 200 run while feeling burned out sometimes. It's not about gatekeeping as a Souls veteran or something. It's just better design.
@@flamingmanuresorry man, you have your opinion but objectively speaking, the open world formula doesn't do anything for the Souls genre, in fact it breaks some key aspects that made the genre so defined Most of the issues Rofo talked in the video all stem from the open world, both directly and indirectly, that's all you need to realize open world isn't a good call
1. Good voice, good presentation. I almost never, ever watch feature film length YT essays, but this was fun to watch in its entirety. Subscribed. 2. Love the use of Journey music, unexpected and oddly fitting! 3. I'm glad I only discovered Souls in 2020 and learned about ER in mid-2021. No 3 year hype for something that ended up disappointing me. Not even getting into lore and story, I just mean things like downgrading 6 players to 4. I was hoping for 8, even! Boo. 4. I really just feel that DS2-3 had this perfect balance of wackiness, tactical positioning, strategic use of weapon arts (for DS3), and a feeling of longer, harder-fought battles. ER PVP turned messy with the AoE & ranged spell spam, but you've really hit home what's wrong with the dated mechanics at their core. 5. I disagree that Blues should be changed. My PVP always takes the form of Taunter's Tongue hosting (no rune arc though!). I dislike the fact that TT brings a constant stream of 2 invaders at a time with no cool-down. Blues help even the odds there. But you're right that their other problems are a sign of the huge empty hole that has been left by Covenants. We need them back badly.
Loved the video! I think its very clear that fromsoft left their pvp design unnatended through most of the developement of Elden Ring and likely were forced to implement it with little to no time nearing the end of developement. Even in some of the original hands-on impressions we got (i think it was the fextralife one), the interviewers mentioned their concerns towards covenants because fromsoft were "still planning for them" but those were not implemented at the time close to release. I too hope that they bring some pvp changes alongside the DLC, with maybe some features spreading to all players and not just those who bought the expansion, but its more likely that their matured version of the online system will only show up when its time for a sequel. Just like with many other features in the game (IE: great runes, magic builds..etc), Im willing to cut them some slack because the main focus here was the open world and that was mostly done right. I just wont give them such benefits the next time they go at it.
That point about covenants is on the money and something I almost considered making it's own section for this video. The structure and bones for covenants are clearly right under the surface, like the Bloody Fingers and the Recusants basically are covenants but with their rank and reward systems stripped out, which is really a shame
@@RofoTheGyrm with the Recusants, they essentially turned the usual rank-based reward system into the PvE quest. but yeah it would be better if we also had a more robust covenant system
Very well done video. Agree with everything said and echoed the many thoughts I’ve had since the game launched. I personally ended up quitting Elden Ring pvp after 2-3 months because of it. And thats coming from someone who put 1000+ hours into DS2 and DS3, primarily for the pvp. Invasions peaked for me when I stopped to invade as I progressed through the non open world areas during launch month, and… honestly, when hunting AFK farmers lol, which says a lot about the state of invasions. FromSoft has wanted to do a fully open world game like this for many years. Despite claiming to be fans of the series, not enough people seem to give FromSoft credit for experimenting. Taking such a huge risk with this game and imo still delivering (doesn’t even need to be stated how much the rest of the AAA space can learn from that, or how terrified of risk people in general have become), even if it meant having to take a few steps back in other areas. Game isn’t perfect (not that any of them are) and we know things could be even better, but that doesn’t mean “FromSoft has changed, I can’t believe they’ve done this, I don’t have faith in them anymore” (my biggest issue with Joseph Anderson’s video). And regardless, I honestly wouldn’t even expect another open world game from FromSoft either ever, or not for some time. Not until after several other, more traditional action rpg game releases at least. While some things may technically be “worse” then before, just look at LoTF. People also need to realize just *how* much worse things could be. So ultimately, I’m still satisfied and optimistic for FromSoft’s future, even if that sadly means I won’t put as much time into Elden Ring as the other games. They have remained pretty consistent as a studio, experimented, delivered easily what I’d say is one of my favorite open world games. One can hope for the DLC or other updates to come with some kind of rework, but honestly I’m not holding my breath for it.
Framing the invader/co-operator/host dynamic as an ecosystem with predators and prey is something I figured out very early on and I need more people to think of it this way. As someone who used to compulsively invade, then switched to doing both fresh NG and high NG solo taunters tongue runs through entire levels, it's something I've had alot of time to think about from multiple angles. We need both parts of the game to be healthy.
4:33 I got summoned there once by a random with my lvl60 +12 character and we did the whole Siofra level, there was an other summon too who died to the lightning orbs. It took us 40 minutes to reach and defeat the boss without being able to use the horse or the teleporters. It was a chore. I assume I happened to be at the higher end of the hosts summon range as I could easily take down all 3-4 invaders that showed up, btw. the host didn't even use tongue, the level was so crazy long that the invasion timer reset itself multiple times and when you are in an invadable state you are garanteed to get invaded in elden ring.
One of my favorite things to do is invade with my lvl25 twink. It uses bleed and some dirty tricks to melt OL phantoms. If I invade honest coopers I just give the host goodies (different consumables) and leave.... after killing the phantoms, cause RedMan still bad 😈 its genuinely a joy interacting with new players. Not all thinks are evil, just saying, some of us a jolly tricksters.
This is such a large topic to discuss. I as a casual player have some of my own opinions on multiplayer and invasion. No matter what they are things just need to be changed. I played my first run solo offline. After that I went online for coop and pvp. It is such a mixed bag of fun and excitement to just utter disappointment.
What an absolutely terrific video Mr. Rofo; you didn't speak nothing but cold and hard facts I have a lot to say so I'll leave this comment and edit it afterwards writing my sentiments about some things you said - I believe we can have an awesome conversation about this for anyone who's interested
You ever come across a video that you know will be so good that you just can’t watch it yet and want to watch at home with candles lit up and some nice symphonies playing while having a Thai massage done by a 67 year old woman
First of all this is an excellent video, you made very good points and I genuinely hope fromsoft is able to remedy at least some of the problems of the games multiplayer when the dlc comes around. I'm honestly a big fan of long deep dive discussion videos so I've actually watched the whole thing a few times now, it's nice to listen in the background while making and eating dinner. I have a question though if you don't mind, in the background footage were you pvping with a group of friends or something? I noticed you were often 2v2ing the same people in several different locations, sometimes as a phantom, other times as an invader. They were also pretty chill which is not usually the case with randoms in invasions.
Having legitimately gone through the five stages of grief in the months following ER's release, this video was both cathartic and a depressing reminder that I won't be able to enjoy this game's multiplayer for years to come like I did with DS3. Came back recently for duels and the balance changes are nice, but the massive system wide issues plaguing the MP destroys any hope I have for the longevity and enjoyment of co-op or invasions. That's actually painful to say, haha. I miss hosting Pontiff fight clubs man. Depression aside, really great video from a channel I've never heard of til now.
This is why I wish for the dlc to just be a massive legacy dungeon. The open world format sacrificed a lot of what made the online system work and, in turn, replayability.
I do the taunter's run. Really playing the game, fighting mobs, and invaders. It's a middle ground between grace duelist, and regular coop. I try to convince anyone I do this with to be the same level as me. Nothing is more boring than an overleveled summon one shotting an invader. I don't think this is the way the game should be played all the time by everyone. It just adds a bit of spice where we get world pvp, and invaders can sometimes get a co-invader.
Funny enough I play Solo in this game simply just because getting invaded every 5 to 10 minutes in an open world game about exploration sucked, also the invisible walls that box in the players was a horrible design choice too. Those 2 reasons are why I never bothered with it. The games are easier solo anyways. Funner with friends but honestly not worth it.
Never thought Souls invasions would ever get as bad as they have, pontiff ganks was ironically more fun. Not to mention I basically quit after the ds3 patch that people kept whining for,, ds3 is still there, they still begged for it anyway. Got duped into buying ds3 PvP twice.
Rofo here’s an idea for the next vid - just say “6 player cap and TT rework” over and over again for 1.5 hours. If we repeat it over and over and over and over and over again, Fromsoft is sure to listen!
There are a few things I disagree with here: 1. Running away favoring the host: It's factually not true. At first glance it pleagues the the game for both sides since at least DS3, if you watch G9 or Steel, thay often deal with teams by running away forever and nothing stops them to do so, on paper the host can do the same but unless thay killed every enemy in the area (or thay are lvl150 First Step gankers) thay will run into enemies sooner or later giving the invader a chance. Running away is cancer but no pro host. 2. Elden Ring invasions being harder than DS3: The lower TTK at meta level allows the invader to one-shot or one-combo 3 players at once, these options simply did not exist in DS3 and it was a slow grind and near impossible if the co-op-ers were good at the game. When I co-op with randoms at meta level most of my experience is seeing the invasion messege (or even funnier not seeing it) then 5 seconds later getting blasted by Rain of Golem Arrows, Cannon of Haima or Giantsflame Take Thee. I recently got one of my lvl150 characters to NG+2 to pick up some gear I forgot. I summoned people for boss fights for fun but I didn't summon anyone for any level or the open world because I wanted to avoid invaders completely even tho I also invade occasionally and also play quite a lot in the arena at meta level. Getting blasted by one shot cheese strats just isn't fun. I can clear the entire level deathless all by myself I would only summon for fun anyways, I don't need the 120+/-20% risk of invaders showing up in a minute that might be either idiots getting blendered in 5 seconds or one-shot blasting me with some attack without me being able to see them on screen, neither of these are fun to me.
it's nice to have someone say essentially my thoughts on the overall issues with multiplayer in Elden Ring in a nice cohesive manner are you appeased youtupe algorithm?
i was getting summoned at level 9 with no level ups besides weapons. Invaders in co-op could decimate me with one attack. I just had a session where i captured 2 invaders summoning me for co-op, one with host on their name but i could lock on to them, and they were red, and a THIRD invader was summoned and i got sent back when they came in. is this hacks? anti-cheat is enabled. and the DLC has leaked early. is this an early dlc feature somehow being implemented, a reverse gang squad? and god knows the dlc won't adjust the netcode to make multiplayer more accurate when invaders come to fight and you take damage off axis and 2 weapon lengths away. someone on reddit is telling me they can edit the code on the fly and bypass easy anticheat. lmao love to see it. and seeing invaders ash out a whirlwind that stunlocks you and takes half your health is the new ROB from 1.03/1.04
The "open field not open world" concept you brought up actually made total sense to me. I've been hating on this game for having one of the most empty open worlds in gaming history, but now I realised it was supposed to be that way and the game was supposed to have higher priority for content within the legacy dungeons. I still haven't changed my mind about how bad the open world is, but knowing that context puts it into perspective that they weren't really trying to go for an open world but something else entirely, which makes me respect it a bit more.
Lords of the Fallen has seemed like such an amazing game to make the NPC/character builds I enjoy, sad to hear about all the online issues and I haven't had time to even get it and play through the main game like I had wanted. Maybe the issues will be fixed by when I do have time to get and play it, but I'm afraid the game may be long dead by then.
Excellent job breaking down some of the underlying issues in the game. Though im curious about your opinions on PvP arenas and why you don't find them appealing. As you mention for DS2 one of its issue being the PvP die-hards.
Good question! DS2 was a far better duelist game because of it's stamina economy vs the more recent Fromsoft games. In DS2 spacing and prediction seemed to matter a lot more, as a lot of attacks couldn't just be double rolled in order to avoid easily, which made your movements and attacks far more impactful. DS3 and ER have that meme of duelists just playing footsie with each other while throwing out the occasional unreactable attack. And personally I find the hard swap focus of so many duelists to just be insanely dull. But I think my biggest issues is how the speed and stamina management of DS3 / ER enable players to play in such passive ways that other actual fighting games simply don't. If you play Street Fighter or Tekken, you'll get punished for playing too passively, whereas there is zero punishment for that in ER. And in DS2, it's simply that much harder to play passively due to stamina playing a much larger role. I know there are plenty of players who really enjoy ER's duelists scene and this isn't necessarily a knock on those players, I just think ER is poorly suited for a duelist oriented fighting game to such a degree that I simply have no interest in it
I'm holding out hope that from gives us a multiplayer focus souls like that may function similar to left for dead. Designed for, especially for cooperation, resources and exploration, are scarce and meaningful, etc. With the ol environmental detail and storytelling that we love. Hopefully, with invasions! Or Hunt: Showdown esque systems. Regardless, we will likely always be a minority, but we are notorious for finding our own fun so I think we'll all do just fine.
I hope Miyazaki was really serious about his interest in multiplayer games when he mentioned he would be interested in doing a Battle Royale several years ago. I think Fromsoft's take on a multiplayer game would be fascinating, especially in the style of Hunt: Showdown, which is a game I'd likely play a LOT more of it wasn't a shooter tbh
Exactly! If it wasn't a shooter it'd be way up on my list. The gameplay of shooters just doesn't resonate with me as much as the control and perspective of third person (or similar perspective) action games. As well as the hard emphasis on precision and reaction times make it harder to enjoy casually compared to booting up an invasion and literally throwing rocks at people or getting in pool noodle fights.
lol fuk the fact that invaders can only invade coop. Thankfully, we got proper invasions in lords of the fallen. Watching the whole video btw, not just leaving troll comment.
I'm going to make a video on it soon, it's essentially a Dex / FTH build at rl72. It is NOT a very good build for that rl, I'm probably going to remake it for rl50
17:27 the three essential bossed in limgrave are tree sentinel, ageel, and tibia mariner. you kill all three, you get locked out, you kill only two you're fine. i leave the tibia mariner to still do coop/pvp, so that reds dont run and hide behind ageel or tree sentinel, they 'could' go to tibia mariner and hide behind him, but most invaders have a cranium size of a pea. even though they're run-n-hiding cowards, they never think to go there.
That wasn’t true for me. My partner got locked out of multiplayer before she killed Agheel, so we weren’t able to fight the boss together. This is part of why the area boss counts make little sense to me, and even if there were a concrete list, the fact that there is no clear way to distinguish which bosses are “area bosses” until it’s too late makes it a risk to fight too many open world bosses in co-op. A similar thing happened with us and Draconic, where he locked us out of East Altus. Then in West Altus, we avoided fighting Windmill Godskin, and I was worried about fighting Wormface. It’s just a shame we’re burdened with a system that’s so unclear in an open world format. EDIT: Also Mad pumpkin head is in the mix somewhere I guess
@@Felicificity draconic is the only dude that locks east altus. and idk what it is with limgrave, buts thats just how it is for me. ive done several tests, and thats what ive concluded to be by and large the most consistant truth. mabye you just killed something important that you forgor about.
@@pawnshop_ghost i hate you're one of those people just run away and dont accept your fate. i mean, why else did you invade me other than to get mowed down lmao? but fr, i atleast respect you for being an inteligent invader, still that doesnt mean you'll get far stalling with me.
nah dude, you're just jealous because it won the "best multiplayer game" award twice, just git gud :^) jokes aside, you pretty much said what i've always complained about ER's multiplayer, except the ugly netcode that we have been using since DeS with almost no improve. i really hope the dlc does something about it.
seamless fixes almost everything about the coop minus no invasions. small price to pay. ive completed six playthroughs with friends via the mod. takes the coop from a 3 to 10/10 experience.
It a good game, but not a complete game. No social features like voice chat or chat, no quest log, no rewards or leadeeboars for colosseum, no multyplayer hub where playera could hang ans chat while waiting for invasion colosseum. Major bugs in quest chains. 5050 chance that the game locks you out of content forever. No server announcers... Citiies fesls emptt..
Almost none of what you mentioned should be or has ever been in a Fromsoftware game, and for good reason. If I wanted the most generic multiplayer experience in the world I would simply play Destiny or Destiny 2
some basic rewards and a simple ranked leaderboard for Colosseum fans is too much to ask? or social features that make the game feel social? u guys could learn a lot from the Kings Avatar animation@@RofoTheGyrm
The game isn't meant to feel all that social lol, that's like kinda the point of this multiplayer system. I have no idea what Kings Avatar is so idk what I'm gonna learn from that
@@RofoTheGyrm DS2 had those social components (-leader board I think) and was the best pvp in the entire series. Arena rewards such as aesthetic aura changes or cosmetics are missing, just like they did in DS3. This "hub" per se, never existed. But remember something else that existed akin to it? Fightclubs, which Elden Ring did it‘s best to eradicate.
Horses in co-op just sounds horrible... chasing invaders across the map is already a pain in the ass, add a horse and it's just dumb at that point. I'm good on the no horses.
@kunknown2340 I did say horses should be able to be used in co-op, but only in relation to traversing the open world with other co-opers. Honestly mounted combat is so basic that it would need a drastic rework to be remotely fun in PVP, so I really don't think mounted invasions are something anyone really wants
I know this wasn’t easy to make, but your criticisms are so accurate and important, and your work is very much appreciated. Much like your DS3 Spellcasting Analysis video back in the day, I find these larger system review videos to be some of your most interesting work. You always bring knowledge and perspective few others can.
I especially felt seen in this video with the criticisms of the co-op, which I maintain are by far the worst issues for the game’s ecosystem, and have direct runoff effects for invaders in terms of activity and that quality of activity. (Thanks for all the overleveleds - I hate them!)
The last section about LOTF, with the audio fading to the background, was a bit humbling and a bit sad - very poignant I think. Almost all of us desperately want more from these multiplayer systems, and of course a small studio like Hexworks wouldn’t be the answer. But I think a lot of our optimism speaks to how much we feel we have lost in the big steps taken back between Dark Souls and ER.
Elden Ring could be a lot worse, a looot worse. LOTF proves this fact. But at the risk of sounding like a doomer or a boomer (your call as to which is worse), going back to play DS3 always reminds me of exactly what made me fall in love with Fromsoft PvP - the clean system design, the fun and addictive combat fundamentals, the well designed invasion areas, the much greater variety of experiences afforded by covenants and dense level design, and the surprising variety of weapon/build options with some semblance of competitive balance and tradeoffs.
When I take steps back, though, I see a lot of what ER did as direct answers to problems in DS3. I really do think that Fromsoft tried to listen to us, perhaps more than ever. They heard poise complaints, so they added passive poise. They heard solo host invasions complaints, so they took them away. They heard R1 spam and roll spam complaints, so they nerfed true combos (biiig RIP imo) and roll distance/s (overall a good change, even if leaves defensive options sorely lacking).
There’s an aspect to this that is deeply admirable, and it shouldn’t be forgotten - ER was meant to be the (for lack of a better comparison) Smash Ultimate of Fromsoft. A massive title meant to appeal to all players, address complaints from diehard fans, and truly be something special and memorable. And yet something does get lost along the way with those kinds of ambitions. A certain polish and vision, a certain amount of depth. And it perhaps leaves Fromsoft with a scope that makes future patches and improvements near impossible to implement on a reasonable timeframe.
These are easy things for players to get frustrated by. But I’d rather step away, take a break, and appreciate ER from an outsider’s perspective for a bit, than get angry about “coulda beens”. (Believe me though, I do still get a little peeved with the game, we’re only human.) But AC6 proves that From is still interested in small scale titles with intense polish and clear design vision, and I so very much look forward to whatever they make next.
And when the ER DLC releases and online patch support ends for Elden Ring, I hope it’s in the prime of its life! Because I’d want to enjoy it as much as I can for as long as I can, even if I don’t like it nearly as much as their other offerings overall. Criticism videos like this are stepping stones to that beautiful, perhaps naive dream.
So, A+ work, sir. You get extra credit, in fact. Because now that you’ve made this, I don’t have to make my own much less hinged rant about ER’s multitudinous multiplayer flaws. Taking work off my plate is truly the greatest gift of all.
Once again Fel, you truly have a way with words, you always bring some new insight or a different perspective in your comments that almost makes me want to go back and edit my videos to include.
Btw I've come around to your way of thinking as of late with DS3 and AC:6. Sure there are aspects of Elden Ring that were missteps but Fromsoft doesn't strike me as a studio that's only moving in that direction these days.
Agree 100% but you forgot the most detrimental change IMO:
The additional of a crouch button has seen the unfortunate decline of the Point Down emote and the despicable rise of the T-bag. Unforgivable.
TRUE nobody talks about this
I hate the bags, just point down and move on. Get this first person shooter BS outa my game about knights and the monstrous creatures we can make in our character creation screens
Lack of 360° spin did fr
I’m 30 minutes into this video and I just gotta say THANK YOU for nailing point after point. I really hope fromsoft sees this video and chooses to take action. I’ll finish the video now 😂
Great summary of the multiplayer issues. Anyone who has spent at least a bit of time engaging with Elden Ring's multiplayer would find that you touched on a couple of things that impacted their experience.
Justa. Tip of the iceberg honestly
can you reupload this with subway surfers and family guy clips on top pls it's really hard to pay attention to the whole thing
Give us the sludge, Mr Gyrm
Uploading this exact thing to my second channel: RoloTheGoblet
Fr we need to do something as a comunity i really want this game to shine in the pvp way, plssss
Im gonna leave this running in the back while playing Lies of P, so there is that view time for you, I hope there is no fancy edits, they would be wasted.Also great choise of music, I enjoy.
This is a fantastic video, there's not much at all for me to say because you've already said it. Extremely thorough, and I must say that having 99% of my gripes about my favorite game compiled and newtly organized in one place is extremely luxurious.
While I am no clairvoyant, I do certainly hope that some of this is heard and taken into consideration for SOTE. You put a ton of work and care into this, and it's great buddy🌠
Oh and uh, just one more thing. **lights a Camel Turkish Gold** Frosty sent me here 👁️👁️
Goddamnit I've just been Columbo'd by the best of 'em
Tell it how it is brother
I really appreciate this style of video and I think there are a lot of people with the same opinion, but we can't send our opinion to fromsoft, idk just really want our voices to be Listened
I have so many things to say about the entirety of the multiplayer systems, and how they even affect the singleplayer systems, but I'll just keep it short with this: there is no Small Sign Soapstone equivalent, in a type of game (open world exploration) where that item would be perfect.
But I'd also like to point out that, in 28 days, Armored Core 6 received 2 major patches, while it took almost double that, 53 days, for Elden Ring to receive the same support. It also took a long time for Elden Ring pvp to receive the features it needed, whereas Armored Cora 6 had a few hickups and that's about it.
I think that's entirely due to the size of both games. I feel that AC:6 is a dramatically easier game to patch because of it's smaller size and tightness, vs Elden Ring which is enormous. If you look at those first couple of patches for Elden Ring, those change notes are looooong
this is 100% the most on point criticism of elden ring out there, you nailed almost every point
I will say I have a different conclusion about the game than you. I think Fromsoft did consider the multiplayer mechanic, but only from the perspective of a very casual, “I’m gonna give this a try and then move on to something else” kind of player, which is why we have certain items such as starlight shards in such limited supply, why the game doesn’t give you reusable invasion fingers right away, and why they just seem to not care about the extreme balance issues. I think their mindset is that 90% of people will invade maybe a half dozen times and then move on, so why bother polishing for the 10% who are probably gonna stick around anyway. Which is completely antithetical to their former philosophy with dark souls, and why they’re doing massive overhauls late into the game’s release such as the 1.10 poise rework. How they didn’t anticipate such a vocal response from their most hardline players is beyond me but I’m sure the piles of cash the game made for them cushions the feedback considerably.
An amazing analysis rofo, some really good points and very well written and spoken. I hope fromsoft gets wind of this video and takes on board some of your point's
Great video! This is an amazing overview of everything I've heard and thought over the past year and a half. My solution to hunters (which I first heard from JeeNiNe iirc) would be to allow solo-host invasions in dungeons when the host's rune arc is active, but to summon in a hunter simultaneous to the invader. This is how the Nerjius and Yura encounter plays out and I think it'd be a great way to have all of the benefits of solo-host invasions without throwing players into 1v1s against a much more skilled opponent. Coupled with this, make every single boss kill activate your rune arc. This would add an incentive to doing all of the side content, especially as a way to take a break from a harder boss and then return with an advantage.
The one element of the multiplayer system which did iterate into the open world well was Summoning Pools for coop with randos (as of the changes in 1.06). I can get coop sessions anywhere in the world and have tons of fun. Their activation is tedious and doesn't carry over to NG+ though, but I sent a nuanced report to Bandai Namco about that so hopefully this one system can be fully great. Also covenants, please covenants. Ziostorm did a video about their potential already so check that out.
Hey good call on sending a ticket into Bandai, I feel like we need more of the community sending those in for obvious changes
Elden ring's multiplayer feels unfinished things like two invading items that do the same thing and all the cut content hinting at covenants really seems like a lot of these systems like furcalling finger remedy were intended to have a more involved use but in it's current implementation i'd say Elden ring multiplayer is easily the worst of the souls series. The open world really exposes all the pain points even more. I really wish we'd gotten something better like you said the pve side of things is a masterpiece and i would've loved to see it get the same longevity dark souls 3 got from it's multiplayer.
I love seeing other people with cool character names
We love a lore build here at the Rofo the Gyrm tv network
I envy your resolve to just leave a dungeon unexplored. I not only explored every single dungeon possible but also did every single quest and everything in between. I was so incredibly burned out that it completely ruined my first run. The others weren't so different either. After taking a year long break, I've started a new playthrough and I'm still doing the same thing bc the world is too big to remember where all the necessary stuff for my build are. It's like a full time job. I come home from work and keep exploring the world until the run is finished, it's so depressing. I really wish this is the last open world game we will ever get.
I usually endure non enjoyable pve for making pvp builds but considering the performance issues and activity on PC, I don't know why I keep slaving away. I guess I have a faint hope of upgrading my rig and enjoy the game against all odds or I'm just obsessive and need to finish what I started with this new build. Either way, I'm glad you and many others go through the dirty work to make content bc there is much fun to be had hidden deep below somewhere in this damn game but I'm not strong enough to dig it out at the moment.
no thanks, i hope they keep doing open world from now on, as the open world is just insanely better than their corridor and hallways simulator with shortcuts in between, no contest. going back to the older games now seems archaic and dated.
why dont u just look up the things you want for a build rather than explore everything again? i dont understand the complaint that the world is too big when youre the one burning yourself out exploring literally everything when u dont need to. its like complaining about bloodborne cuz u force yourself to go through the chalices every time u play it, i cant even imagine always re exploring all content in any souls game when youve done that before, it just makes no sense, the game isnt at fault here, you are.
hell in my first playthrough, i got burned out from all the crappy mines, caves and trap crypts the game has so by the time i got to lyndell i stopped trying to finish every cave i find, i just go in, light the grace and get out, i would explore them way later in the playthrough to just get the loot, i still would explore the mines with the red dots on the map cuz of upgrade materials, but overall all those red-spot dungeons combined wouldnt even be 2 hours of gameplay, and unlike bloodborne, they dont hide away the best loot in the game, and they have some pretty good bosses/minibosses by the end. the game has so much insanely good side content that i asked myself why i was forcing myself to play the bad side content.
"I'm glad you and many others go through the dirty work to make content bc there is much fun to be had hidden deep below somewhere in this damn game but I'm not strong enough to dig it out at the moment." again, you could just look up the things you want for your build, rather than ask fromsoft to devolve back to their previous games level design. souls veterans man, u guys are a weird breed.
@@flamingmanure Damn dude, you must be some kind of genius. Really showing that 99 insight you got there but allow me to retort as a simpleton for all those who were unhappy with the open world design.
First off, my main concern was my blind run. I was obviously not going to spoil the hell out of the game but rather explore the world as far as the game allowed me to. If they wanted me to skip 80 percent of the content, that should've been way more clear. You never know which generic dungeon will have a cool spell or just another Arteria Leaf at the end.
As for the subsequent runs, playing a video game with a grocery list on my hand is not exactly the most fun way to play. Same goes for NPC quests. They definitely did not think things through. Open world aspect of the game was just under-cooked. It's cool if you liked it but no need to be that defensive about it. Crapping on other games, calling them 'corridor and hallways simulator' is just childish. Are you sure you did not absolutely hate every From game up to now or are you just being dishonest bc you liked ER? Because those 'simulators' completely revolutionized the entire industry whereas ER is just more of the same you know.
The way you played the game doesn't look optimal either. ER has some amazing dungeons late to endgame and you end up burned out playing the crappy ones if you go through them like you said or you end up revisiting them way too overpowered when you return later. Unless you enjoy every single moment and think the pacing was perfect, your first run is ruined one way or another. There's just way too much content and only some if them are captivating enough. ER could've used a ton of trimming and it's way too obvious to deny. It's weird to see you praise the open world design while admitting to be burned out yourself. That's the point, you shouldn't have been burned out.
BB comparison doesn't make sense either. First off, you're kind of forced to go through dungeons for several reasons. The gems you can get from the first few dungeons are the best ones you'll ever get from the main game. Also, there are some amazing bosses in the dungeons that you absolutely want to fight but you have to go through tons of generic and unnecessary ones to reach them. I didn't mind dungeons that much I liked going through them for some reason but at least ER dungeons don't have much going on so you feel better skipping them on subsequent runs.
Look, I don't know if you're 12yo or anything and that you're just content with more is better approach but for those with taste and critical thinking, a more tailored, carefully constructed experience is not 'devolving' back to primitive ways. DS2 had way more bosses and content than all other games and it was absolute garbage when it comes to vanilla content. So clearly, the runtime being longer or the quantity of bosses is not the best metric to judge a game. The more a game is self-contained and dense, the more likely it is for them to provide consistently great experience. It's adorable if you like fighting 27 Ulcerated Tree Spirits but god damn you don't need to get so defensive about it. Let people have preferences. I want a solid, 60 hour first playthrough with tight content and you're okay with a 200 run while feeling burned out sometimes. It's not about gatekeeping as a Souls veteran or something. It's just better design.
@@flamingmanuresorry man, you have your opinion but objectively speaking, the open world formula doesn't do anything for the Souls genre, in fact it breaks some key aspects that made the genre so defined
Most of the issues Rofo talked in the video all stem from the open world, both directly and indirectly, that's all you need to realize open world isn't a good call
1. Good voice, good presentation. I almost never, ever watch feature film length YT essays, but this was fun to watch in its entirety. Subscribed.
2. Love the use of Journey music, unexpected and oddly fitting!
3. I'm glad I only discovered Souls in 2020 and learned about ER in mid-2021. No 3 year hype for something that ended up disappointing me. Not even getting into lore and story, I just mean things like downgrading 6 players to 4. I was hoping for 8, even! Boo.
4. I really just feel that DS2-3 had this perfect balance of wackiness, tactical positioning, strategic use of weapon arts (for DS3), and a feeling of longer, harder-fought battles. ER PVP turned messy with the AoE & ranged spell spam, but you've really hit home what's wrong with the dated mechanics at their core.
5. I disagree that Blues should be changed. My PVP always takes the form of Taunter's Tongue hosting (no rune arc though!). I dislike the fact that TT brings a constant stream of 2 invaders at a time with no cool-down. Blues help even the odds there. But you're right that their other problems are a sign of the huge empty hole that has been left by Covenants. We need them back badly.
You did it, you're finally a youtube essayist
Noooooo what have I become??
Commenting for algorithm sake, elden ring can be fun, but sometimes it's just the ever...
Edit: amazing video, well done
Loved the video!
I think its very clear that fromsoft left their pvp design unnatended through most of the developement of Elden Ring and likely were forced to implement it with little to no time nearing the end of developement. Even in some of the original hands-on impressions we got (i think it was the fextralife one), the interviewers mentioned their concerns towards covenants because fromsoft were "still planning for them" but those were not implemented at the time close to release.
I too hope that they bring some pvp changes alongside the DLC, with maybe some features spreading to all players and not just those who bought the expansion, but its more likely that their matured version of the online system will only show up when its time for a sequel.
Just like with many other features in the game (IE: great runes, magic builds..etc), Im willing to cut them some slack because the main focus here was the open world and that was mostly done right. I just wont give them such benefits the next time they go at it.
That point about covenants is on the money and something I almost considered making it's own section for this video.
The structure and bones for covenants are clearly right under the surface, like the Bloody Fingers and the Recusants basically are covenants but with their rank and reward systems stripped out, which is really a shame
@@RofoTheGyrm with the Recusants, they essentially turned the usual rank-based reward system into the PvE quest. but yeah it would be better if we also had a more robust covenant system
Very well done video. Agree with everything said and echoed the many thoughts I’ve had since the game launched. I personally ended up quitting Elden Ring pvp after 2-3 months because of it. And thats coming from someone who put 1000+ hours into DS2 and DS3, primarily for the pvp. Invasions peaked for me when I stopped to invade as I progressed through the non open world areas during launch month, and… honestly, when hunting AFK farmers lol, which says a lot about the state of invasions.
FromSoft has wanted to do a fully open world game like this for many years. Despite claiming to be fans of the series, not enough people seem to give FromSoft credit for experimenting. Taking such a huge risk with this game and imo still delivering (doesn’t even need to be stated how much the rest of the AAA space can learn from that, or how terrified of risk people in general have become), even if it meant having to take a few steps back in other areas. Game isn’t perfect (not that any of them are) and we know things could be even better, but that doesn’t mean “FromSoft has changed, I can’t believe they’ve done this, I don’t have faith in them anymore” (my biggest issue with Joseph Anderson’s video). And regardless, I honestly wouldn’t even expect another open world game from FromSoft either ever, or not for some time. Not until after several other, more traditional action rpg game releases at least.
While some things may technically be “worse” then before, just look at LoTF. People also need to realize just *how* much worse things could be. So ultimately, I’m still satisfied and optimistic for FromSoft’s future, even if that sadly means I won’t put as much time into Elden Ring as the other games. They have remained pretty consistent as a studio, experimented, delivered easily what I’d say is one of my favorite open world games. One can hope for the DLC or other updates to come with some kind of rework, but honestly I’m not holding my breath for it.
Framing the invader/co-operator/host dynamic as an ecosystem with predators and prey is something I figured out very early on and I need more people to think of it this way. As someone who used to compulsively invade, then switched to doing both fresh NG and high NG solo taunters tongue runs through entire levels, it's something I've had alot of time to think about from multiple angles. We need both parts of the game to be healthy.
10/10 analysis, very nicely done
4:33 I got summoned there once by a random with my lvl60 +12 character and we did the whole Siofra level, there was an other summon too who died to the lightning orbs. It took us 40 minutes to reach and defeat the boss without being able to use the horse or the teleporters. It was a chore. I assume I happened to be at the higher end of the hosts summon range as I could easily take down all 3-4 invaders that showed up, btw. the host didn't even use tongue, the level was so crazy long that the invasion timer reset itself multiple times and when you are in an invadable state you are garanteed to get invaded in elden ring.
Lmao @ 1:14:30
Rofo: *exists*
Dragon: “so you have chosen death”
One of my favorite things to do is invade with my lvl25 twink. It uses bleed and some dirty tricks to melt OL phantoms. If I invade honest coopers I just give the host goodies (different consumables) and leave.... after killing the phantoms, cause RedMan still bad 😈 its genuinely a joy interacting with new players. Not all thinks are evil, just saying, some of us a jolly tricksters.
My guy what does this have to do with the contents of this video
This video is incredible, you only spit facts for a hour and a half
Really looking forward to this longer video essay format moving forward ❤
Why r u likes this
@@RofoTheGyrm Because I agree with Maya lol. What else am I gonna watch on UA-cam?
This is such a large topic to discuss. I as a casual player have some of my own opinions on multiplayer and invasion. No matter what they are things just need to be changed.
I played my first run solo offline. After that I went online for coop and pvp. It is such a mixed bag of fun and excitement to just utter disappointment.
What an absolutely terrific video Mr. Rofo; you didn't speak nothing but cold and hard facts
I have a lot to say so I'll leave this comment and edit it afterwards writing my sentiments about some things you said - I believe we can have an awesome conversation about this for anyone who's interested
Why the hell does this only have 4k views? It deserves so many more
You ever come across a video that you know will be so good that you just can’t watch it yet and want to watch at home with candles lit up and some nice symphonies playing while having a Thai massage done by a 67 year old woman
This was amazing. Earned a sub
I know this is a couple of months old but i agree with all of your points here
Thx Stevie, been enjoying your vids as of late :)
@@RofoTheGyrm Thanks! Ive been on a bloodborne binge
First of all this is an excellent video, you made very good points and I genuinely hope fromsoft is able to remedy at least some of the problems of the games multiplayer when the dlc comes around. I'm honestly a big fan of long deep dive discussion videos so I've actually watched the whole thing a few times now, it's nice to listen in the background while making and eating dinner. I have a question though if you don't mind, in the background footage were you pvping with a group of friends or something? I noticed you were often 2v2ing the same people in several different locations, sometimes as a phantom, other times as an invader. They were also pretty chill which is not usually the case with randoms in invasions.
Hahaha they were definitely not randoms, they're a bunch of people that I tend to play Elden Ring with in general
Having legitimately gone through the five stages of grief in the months following ER's release, this video was both cathartic and a depressing reminder that I won't be able to enjoy this game's multiplayer for years to come like I did with DS3. Came back recently for duels and the balance changes are nice, but the massive system wide issues plaguing the MP destroys any hope I have for the longevity and enjoyment of co-op or invasions. That's actually painful to say, haha. I miss hosting Pontiff fight clubs man.
Depression aside, really great video from a channel I've never heard of til now.
1:11:10 Thay should apply to co-op as well. I don't ever want to get summoned to First Step, Frozen Lake or Prayer Room ever again.
This is why I wish for the dlc to just be a massive legacy dungeon. The open world format sacrificed a lot of what made the online system work and, in turn, replayability.
Honestly yeah I really agree with you there. I doubt we'll only get legacy dungeons, but I sure hope we get a few more major ones
I do the taunter's run. Really playing the game, fighting mobs, and invaders. It's a middle ground between grace duelist, and regular coop. I try to convince anyone I do this with to be the same level as me. Nothing is more boring than an overleveled summon one shotting an invader. I don't think this is the way the game should be played all the time by everyone. It just adds a bit of spice where we get world pvp, and invaders can sometimes get a co-invader.
Funny enough I play Solo in this game simply just because getting invaded every 5 to 10 minutes in an open world game about exploration sucked, also the invisible walls that box in the players was a horrible design choice too. Those 2 reasons are why I never bothered with it. The games are easier solo anyways. Funner with friends but honestly not worth it.
Never thought Souls invasions would ever get as bad as they have, pontiff ganks was ironically more fun. Not to mention I basically quit after the ds3 patch that people kept whining for,, ds3 is still there, they still begged for it anyway. Got duped into buying ds3 PvP twice.
I'll say this once and that's it
We need 6 player limit and a rework to taunters tongue 🗣📢💯💯💯
Rofo here’s an idea for the next vid - just say “6 player cap and TT rework” over and over again for 1.5 hours. If we repeat it over and over and over and over and over again, Fromsoft is sure to listen!
@Felicificity no no no no, it's a rework to taunters tongue not tt rework, fromsoft won't understand that
I swear I've heard you say this before tho!
@@RofoTheGyrm you're just hallucinating things, elden rings pvp is that bad its making you see the same user
There are a few things I disagree with here:
1. Running away favoring the host: It's factually not true. At first glance it pleagues the the game for both sides since at least DS3, if you watch G9 or Steel, thay often deal with teams by running away forever and nothing stops them to do so, on paper the host can do the same but unless thay killed every enemy in the area (or thay are lvl150 First Step gankers) thay will run into enemies sooner or later giving the invader a chance. Running away is cancer but no pro host.
2. Elden Ring invasions being harder than DS3: The lower TTK at meta level allows the invader to one-shot or one-combo 3 players at once, these options simply did not exist in DS3 and it was a slow grind and near impossible if the co-op-ers were good at the game. When I co-op with randoms at meta level most of my experience is seeing the invasion messege (or even funnier not seeing it) then 5 seconds later getting blasted by Rain of Golem Arrows, Cannon of Haima or Giantsflame Take Thee. I recently got one of my lvl150 characters to NG+2 to pick up some gear I forgot. I summoned people for boss fights for fun but I didn't summon anyone for any level or the open world because I wanted to avoid invaders completely even tho I also invade occasionally and also play quite a lot in the arena at meta level. Getting blasted by one shot cheese strats just isn't fun. I can clear the entire level deathless all by myself I would only summon for fun anyways, I don't need the 120+/-20% risk of invaders showing up in a minute that might be either idiots getting blendered in 5 seconds or one-shot blasting me with some attack without me being able to see them on screen, neither of these are fun to me.
the seamless coop mod saved playing with friends.
oh yes i watch and listen
it's nice to have someone say essentially my thoughts on the overall issues with multiplayer in Elden Ring in a nice cohesive manner
are you appeased youtupe algorithm?
It's also kinda cathartic for me since I can get it all out there and not have to keep mentioning it in chunks
I appreciate your use of the BL2 soundtrack 🙏
It's all bangers all the time
i was getting summoned at level 9 with no level ups besides weapons. Invaders in co-op could decimate me with one attack. I just had a session where i captured 2 invaders summoning me for co-op, one with host on their name but i could lock on to them, and they were red, and a THIRD invader was summoned and i got sent back when they came in. is this hacks? anti-cheat is enabled. and the DLC has leaked early. is this an early dlc feature somehow being implemented, a reverse gang squad? and god knows the dlc won't adjust the netcode to make multiplayer more accurate when invaders come to fight and you take damage off axis and 2 weapon lengths away. someone on reddit is telling me they can edit the code on the fly and bypass easy anticheat. lmao love to see it. and seeing invaders ash out a whirlwind that stunlocks you and takes half your health is the new ROB from 1.03/1.04
The "open field not open world" concept you brought up actually made total sense to me. I've been hating on this game for having one of the most empty open worlds in gaming history, but now I realised it was supposed to be that way and the game was supposed to have higher priority for content within the legacy dungeons. I still haven't changed my mind about how bad the open world is, but knowing that context puts it into perspective that they weren't really trying to go for an open world but something else entirely, which makes me respect it a bit more.
42.00 you can free aim your attacks up and down
Lords of the Fallen has seemed like such an amazing game to make the NPC/character builds I enjoy, sad to hear about all the online issues and I haven't had time to even get it and play through the main game like I had wanted. Maybe the issues will be fixed by when I do have time to get and play it, but I'm afraid the game may be long dead by then.
Fucking incredible video dude!
Excellent job breaking down some of the underlying issues in the game. Though im curious about your opinions on PvP arenas and why you don't find them appealing. As you mention for DS2 one of its issue being the PvP die-hards.
Good question!
DS2 was a far better duelist game because of it's stamina economy vs the more recent Fromsoft games. In DS2 spacing and prediction seemed to matter a lot more, as a lot of attacks couldn't just be double rolled in order to avoid easily, which made your movements and attacks far more impactful.
DS3 and ER have that meme of duelists just playing footsie with each other while throwing out the occasional unreactable attack. And personally I find the hard swap focus of so many duelists to just be insanely dull. But I think my biggest issues is how the speed and stamina management of DS3 / ER enable players to play in such passive ways that other actual fighting games simply don't. If you play Street Fighter or Tekken, you'll get punished for playing too passively, whereas there is zero punishment for that in ER. And in DS2, it's simply that much harder to play passively due to stamina playing a much larger role.
I know there are plenty of players who really enjoy ER's duelists scene and this isn't necessarily a knock on those players, I just think ER is poorly suited for a duelist oriented fighting game to such a degree that I simply have no interest in it
I'm holding out hope that from gives us a multiplayer focus souls like that may function similar to left for dead. Designed for, especially for cooperation, resources and exploration, are scarce and meaningful, etc. With the ol environmental detail and storytelling that we love. Hopefully, with invasions! Or Hunt: Showdown esque systems. Regardless, we will likely always be a minority, but we are notorious for finding our own fun so I think we'll all do just fine.
I hope Miyazaki was really serious about his interest in multiplayer games when he mentioned he would be interested in doing a Battle Royale several years ago.
I think Fromsoft's take on a multiplayer game would be fascinating, especially in the style of Hunt: Showdown, which is a game I'd likely play a LOT more of it wasn't a shooter tbh
Exactly! If it wasn't a shooter it'd be way up on my list. The gameplay of shooters just doesn't resonate with me as much as the control and perspective of third person (or similar perspective) action games. As well as the hard emphasis on precision and reaction times make it harder to enjoy casually compared to booting up an invasion and literally throwing rocks at people or getting in pool noodle fights.
lol fuk the fact that invaders can only invade coop. Thankfully, we got proper invasions in lords of the fallen. Watching the whole video btw, not just leaving troll comment.
Just wait till you get to the ending ;(
O no…
Yes.
To everything said here.
Nothing more to say.
ELTWO RING.
do you have a video on your build in 27:13? or can you explain it here if you dont have it
I'm going to make a video on it soon, it's essentially a Dex / FTH build at rl72. It is NOT a very good build for that rl, I'm probably going to remake it for rl50
Or in some cases banish you for attacking the invader for one reason or another
That title was blasphemy
17:27 the three essential bossed in limgrave are tree sentinel, ageel, and tibia mariner. you kill all three, you get locked out, you kill only two you're fine. i leave the tibia mariner to still do coop/pvp, so that reds dont run and hide behind ageel or tree sentinel, they 'could' go to tibia mariner and hide behind him, but most invaders have a cranium size of a pea. even though they're run-n-hiding cowards, they never think to go there.
That wasn’t true for me. My partner got locked out of multiplayer before she killed Agheel, so we weren’t able to fight the boss together. This is part of why the area boss counts make little sense to me, and even if there were a concrete list, the fact that there is no clear way to distinguish which bosses are “area bosses” until it’s too late makes it a risk to fight too many open world bosses in co-op. A similar thing happened with us and Draconic, where he locked us out of East Altus. Then in West Altus, we avoided fighting Windmill Godskin, and I was worried about fighting Wormface. It’s just a shame we’re burdened with a system that’s so unclear in an open world format.
EDIT: Also Mad pumpkin head is in the mix somewhere I guess
@@Felicificity draconic is the only dude that locks east altus. and idk what it is with limgrave, buts thats just how it is for me. ive done several tests, and thats what ive concluded to be by and large the most consistant truth. mabye you just killed something important that you forgor about.
Yeah my experience has definitely been more in line with Fel's so far, but this is good info nonetheless, so thank you!
Not true at all, I run and hide behind the mariner all the time (I like wasting gankers time)
@@pawnshop_ghost i hate you're one of those people just run away and dont accept your fate. i mean, why else did you invade me other than to get mowed down lmao? but fr, i atleast respect you for being an inteligent invader, still that doesnt mean you'll get far stalling with me.
PLSSS BRING BACK 6 PLAYERS
nah dude, you're just jealous because it won the "best multiplayer game" award twice, just git gud :^)
jokes aside, you pretty much said what i've always complained about ER's multiplayer, except the ugly netcode that we have been using since DeS with almost no improve. i really hope the dlc does something about it.
seamless fixes almost everything about the coop minus no invasions. small price to pay. ive completed six playthroughs with friends via the mod. takes the coop from a 3 to 10/10 experience.
It a good game, but not a complete game. No social features like voice chat or chat, no quest log, no rewards or leadeeboars for colosseum, no multyplayer hub where playera could hang ans chat while waiting for invasion colosseum. Major bugs in quest chains. 5050 chance that the game locks you out of content forever. No server announcers... Citiies fesls emptt..
Almost none of what you mentioned should be or has ever been in a Fromsoftware game, and for good reason. If I wanted the most generic multiplayer experience in the world I would simply play Destiny or Destiny 2
some basic rewards and a simple ranked leaderboard for Colosseum fans is too much to ask? or social features that make the game feel social? u guys could learn a lot from the Kings Avatar animation@@RofoTheGyrm
The game isn't meant to feel all that social lol, that's like kinda the point of this multiplayer system.
I have no idea what Kings Avatar is so idk what I'm gonna learn from that
@@RofoTheGyrm DS2 had those social components (-leader board I think) and was the best pvp in the entire series.
Arena rewards such as aesthetic aura changes or cosmetics are missing, just like they did in DS3.
This "hub" per se, never existed. But remember something else that existed akin to it?
Fightclubs, which Elden Ring did it‘s best to eradicate.
Horses in co-op just sounds horrible... chasing invaders across the map is already a pain in the ass, add a horse and it's just dumb at that point. I'm good on the no horses.
I feel like you're just arguing with yourself there
@@RofoTheGyrm wdym?
@@kunknown2340 I never suggested invaders should have horses or that co-opers should be able to ride horses in PVP
@RofoTheGyrm i swear i remember horses being mentioned but maybe i misconstrued what was being said.
@kunknown2340 I did say horses should be able to be used in co-op, but only in relation to traversing the open world with other co-opers.
Honestly mounted combat is so basic that it would need a drastic rework to be remotely fun in PVP, so I really don't think mounted invasions are something anyone really wants
Underrated ytber
All facts
bro hasnt played pokemon in recent years
man the seamless co op mod is great
I'm thankful for the Seamless Coop mod
Ngl that ending segment was anticlimactic.
Yeah that's the point
@@RofoTheGyrm I doubt it.
@@zawarudo8991 ok lol
There are still many issues with ER multiplayer but despite that, I still feel that ER multiplayer is as enjoyable as the previous games. If not more.
Lol no
The BASE combat is fun, without any op or cheesy stuff, but that's the difficult part; good luck fighting someone who's not abusing something
🤩 "Promosm"