The Unfortunate Problem With The Rings of Power
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 лис 2024
- Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings are considered some of the best adaptations ever put to film. When Peter Jackson returned for The Hobbit, many fans were let down by the rushed production schedule, and hyper-glossy look of Middle Earth. Now, working without source material, Amazon Studios Rings of Power has attempted to expand the mythos of Tolkiens works, but it has mostly fallen flat with audiences. Rings of Power had an uphill battle from the start, but now with Season 2 all but wrapped up, it seems Lord of the Rings fans are still not enjoying the show. Will anyone ever reach the heights of Peter Jacksons original Lord of the Rings trilogy?
#lordoftherings #ringsofpower #peterjackson #thehobbit
SOURCES
www.tolkienest....
web.archive.or...
www.forbes.com...
www.ranker.com...
archive.ph/202...
www.hollywoodr...
For me the biggest problem is there is no central quest binding everything together. ROP doesn’t feel like a “story”, it just feels like a bunch of characters hanging around and waiting for the Lord of the Rings to start.
That's the single biggest problem with prequals: they cannot do anything too interesting because they have to end where the original movie starts. They cannot do something earthshattering that is not mentioned in the original movie as being part of the lore... basically all they can do is add filler around what LOTR already explained about the past.
Yep!
100%
That is why it feels like nothing happens, but actually things that happen keep happening, again and again, and take a lot of scenes to happen.
And then it happens again.
Wizard walks, dwarven family squabble, yes/no use ring & make ring, queen or not blind queen. There are details, but overall they are stuck in time.
Except for films like Inglorious Bastards. Some people did not like the anachronistic ending, I loved it. Took me by surprise.
Imagine them fully-dead k-ing Elrond or Sauron lol
It's so crazy to me that they handed this show to first time show runners. This biggest budget show ever given to amateurs.
It stinks of nepotism. That's the only viable explanation. There are so many good writers not given opportunities like this...
Amazon also gave Wheel of Time to a nobody. That budget isn't Rings of Power high but it's still significant AND has the benefit of being based on a completed narrative.
Different IP, but Acolyte was given to a writer (Headlamp) who hadn’t written ONE whole movie. The proposed Rey movie is supposed to be helmed by a woman who’s never directed a movie (fiction) at all, let alone an action-type movie.
It’s a bewildering trend.
@@carlosamado7606 Money laundring.
It think big studios like Marvel, Disney and Amazon deliberately choose inexperienced or lesser-known directors, giving executives greater control over the production. Occasionally, they'll bring in a fresh name (someone still new to Hollywood and without significant leverage) to execute the studio's vision and agendas, like in Marvel's "Eternals".
What went wrong: Envy, Avarice and money laundering.
It doesn't help either that they don't even bother to follow the sequence of events as they are told in the appendices.
It feels even more disconnected to Tolkien's works.
They did about the same with wheel of time. If you set aside writing and casting, their adaptations aren't so bad.
Been saying this the whole time. Fans too focused on the lore. Bezos doesnt give a single shit about that fucking nerdy stuff. The show looks like a b movie. Clearly there is money disappearing somehow.
You forgot No talent
You forgot to add woke.
where it all went wrong: paying $250,000,000 and not getting rights to The Silmarillion. Worst negotiation in history.
They had all the IP they needed in the appendices. They were free to fill in any blanks as they chose.
Instead, in one of the most bizarre decisions in the history of film, they decided to mangle and twist what they did have the rights to. And then wondered why the fanbase pour scorn on them.
Jesus Fuck we should be happy they haven't gotten their worthless grubby little hands on it.
I'm so glad they didn't, they'd have ruined that too
@@johnbd9765Wuz just gonna say that. At least now there’s a chance someday.
I'm happy they did not have rights to Silmarillion because they would ruin that too.. they have 30 writers to choose from and they choose crappy ones. That is the bad deal. They couldn't even make Sauron believable as a master of manipulation. And plus other characters.
I didn't even notice that Adar had been recast. And he's still the most compelling character of the show.
Right. You were so obviously paying attention if you didnt even notice the actor change😅😅😅
Dude me neither… never bothered to rewatch the first season and hadn’t noticed at all when catching up with the second 😂
nah,it’s the mouse and horse for me 😉
It's a show?
@@KDA8919 Huh…?
If this show had one tenth of the budget, was set solely in Shire, with low stake adventures like "the swan's escaped" or "a frying pan has gone missing", it would have had a much higher chance of being a beloved addition to Tolkien's world.
A missing frying pan? Sounds like the sorta speciality task that would call for a witcher.
@@BaseReality good idea...NOT!!!
You know, I would have one hundred per cent watched a show about Hobbits doing daily life shenanigans while important people passed through worrying about big ole outside events.
They could've made it a bit like the Animatrix weaving little bits and pieces maybe with an overarching slowly culmintating.
There's many issues (inept writers, poor actors, focus on grand standing and ID politics...) but one in particular is because it is dumped en masse and not a weekly release, they are unable to react themselves to audience ratings and then make changes down the line like a traditional show would
😂
The key problem being "first-time" show runners.
They did the same thing to The Wheel of Time. :(
Look to the North. The dwarves are coming
They show one horse rider with a beautiful sunrise as background
(Clearly this is the East)
The problem is the show runners are morons
Plenty of first-timers with talent and passion have succeeded. They failed because they are talentless, woke hacks.
I dont think thats the issue. There is first time for everyone. Tarantino first time is different than these guys first time. The actual issue is that the job is not given to the most talented people but people with connection to the right people. This is politics instead of art produced by actual talented people.
@@Zoltan1251 Tarantino didn't get a billion dollars for his first film.
Peter Jackson's OG Trilogy is 100% immortal!
It's internal
agreed!
Can something be 90% immortal? 😂😂
@@victorhinojosa7370 Achilles
We will NEVER get anything close to it ever again - so it’s one of a kind
“The problem with rings of power”
Me: only nine minutes long lol
5 seasons needed
i felt like everything is so smoll.
an army is like 100 dudes
That's probably been my biggest problem. The writing/characters/acting are good enough, especially in season 2. but Armenelos feels like 3 sets, Lindon is just that one spot with the tree, Eregion is just a courtyard and Celebrimbor's chamber... Makes me wonder where the hell the budget went.
Yeah, dude. The "epic" is missing, for sure.
@@PalmelaHanderson Writing and characters are good enough?
@@PalmelaHandersonmost budgets go to an overly priced camera these days. Look at the budget for Oppenheimer: it was mostly the cameras. 100m budget for something shot primarily in the desert for 2 weeks lmao
@@tiebeswinkels8584 Sure, it's fine. I like the stuff with Khazad Dum and Eregion, basically anything with Arondir or Elendil. The gandalf/hobbit stuff could be entirely removed from the show and nothing would change, but they also only had like 30 minutes of screen time this whole season, so it's whatever. I enjoy it well enough.
Honestly my biggest grip is that the show feels so small in scope. there's rarely more than a handful of people on screen ever. Talking to all the elves when there's less than a hundred. All the orks look like they make up the same number. Massive Dwarven city, Less than 100 barely visible on screen ever
Yes, it could almost be a play given the small number of actors. However, when they did put thousands of orcs onscreen in the last episode they managed to bung it up with the worst (most idiotic) siege in cinematic history.
@@uvicjames They said in the follow up after it was CGI and there where only about 25 during the siege.
@@uvicjameshow was the siege idiotic?
and they don't even TRY to give the illusion of scope. No CGI crowds or armies.
Scriptmage has a great video illustrating this issue, comparing the coronation scene to The House Of The Dragon's.
I recently watched a video essay on UA-cam “Why The Rings of Power cost a billion dollars” and it was basically saying how the whole point of the existence of this show and buying the properties was to BOOST Amazon’s Prime sub counts and to use the show as a vehicle to get more and more people to buy through Amazon through their Prime subscription. There was absolutely no creative desire to have and make this show it was primarily only for advertising.
And they boost shit, no body is subbing to see that garbage 😂
they wanted to make it multicultural and pervert it since the beginning, the actors even boasted about it (black legolas). It also might be because of money white washing as in no way this crap could justify the costs
Ok, but you're going to get a lot more subs if you make a good show than not.
That's not true tho. They made it just because Bezos wanted a pet fantasy show and had a ton of money
As lanychabot said, they would still want to make a good show, obviously. Also, the people who spent all that money aren't the same people actually making the show... I'm sure that out of the 30 potential showrunners, many of them had good ideas and probably a real desire to make something good. Heck, the current showrunners probably wanted to make something good, they just... Failed pretty miserably. I genuinely feel bad for the people who need to stick around for another three seasons of this stuff, surely they know by now that it's not exactly well received. The show just did absolutely nothing for me and didn't feel like LOTR at all. And that's not because I'm anti-inclusivity, the story and characters and look of the show just really suck.
It’s totally bizarre. When I first heard of the LoTR show, I assumed it would be drawing from the rich lore of the extensive history of Middle Earth, and chock full of stories from the Silmarillion and other Tolkien writings. I’m gobsmacked that this show was basically fan fiction. Why did Amazon even buy this show?
they don't have rights to the Silmarillion or any other stuff than the Hobbit, LotR and its appendices so they couldn't draw from it. So I can't fathom why they wanted to make a show about the second age.
@@resathe6760 Unfortunately, that is no excuse. The books available to the makers of the series contain everything you need to create a TV series about the Second Age. Every character and every important event is included in the books or their appendices. The problem is simply that they don't care at all about the story and want to tell their own story and therefore add things that never happened or that they think a normal TV audience would expect, such as the fact that there are hobbits and Gandalf in Middle Earth even though they didn't actually exist in the Second Age. In addition, I have the feeling that the makers of the series have no overall plan for how they want to shape the series, but rather just move from season to season, which leads to major continuity problems, such as the fact that the 3 Elven Rings are first and not, as in books no. 17-19.
I’m right there with you. I was really excited about the news of this new show when I first heard of it. My hopes proved to be far too high!
@@General-Gauder Agreed. I've had so many awesome late second age adventures playing MERP, infiltrating Angmar, recruiting the help of the hill men, evading the baleful eye of the witch king. My DM from my freshman year of college could write a better fan-fic middle earth plot than these folks. And other than an occasional brief appearance of a nazgul we never ran into any character from the book, and our stories were better for it. The strength of this franchise is its world building. There's a reason most other fantasy works since have been largely derivative of this one. Not leveraging that for the sake of including a few marque characters and making everyone mad at you is just such an unforced error.
Ad revenue. It was designed to drag people into Amazon Prime.
They wanted it to be "Beaveheart, not Narnia," which tells us everything we need to know about these showrunners. They don't understand Tolkien or his world at all if they think LOTR or the Silmarillion (or the additional works) are frothy stuff for kiddie-winkles just because good triumphs over evil. (Don't take that as a knock on Narnia- I love that series, it's just written for a younger audience.) Tolkien, his world, and his themes are so much deeper and richer than "let's make Game of Thrones, but with hobbits!" Ultimately, this whole exercise just reeks of the kind of shallow, childish worldview of the showrunners.
LoTR is amazing not because it's an accurate retelling, but because it changed a lot while maintaining the spirit of Tolkien
Yeah calling the LoTR movies book accurate felt like a stretch
@@Yurt_enthusiast7 I normally like this channel, but the stuff about the making of the show being "cynical" is ironic when this is one of the most cynical miserybait videos they've ever made. Complaining about the haircuts of the Elves is a whole new level of "we need the hate-clicks" padding.
@@thescottishaccent I found the corporate shill.
@@TheBigGuyBGY I bet you thought this sounded super clever inside your head.
@@thescottishaccent So there are 2 possibilities. You are either a shill or your taste is actually shit enough to think rings of power is good
I don't understand why these billion-dollar franchises keep getting handed to people who have no idea what they're doing.
Not only that, but they still keep getting more chances even after they fail multiple times.
"What went wrong:"
Amazon
Someone didn't see Fallout
Reacher is a good show
The Expanse is an amazing, quite damn perfect adaptation
Bruh. The No. 1 unfortunate problem with the show is that it's made mostly by people that not only shouldn't have been given keys to one of the most beloved cultural franchises of all times, they should've stayed away from the filmmaking business altogether.
Is it weird I didn't even realize they recast Adar? I thought they simply changed something with his make up. I had no idea it was another guy, lol.
It goes to show they got a good actor for the role to be honest.
He probably quit cause of how bad it is 😂
@@christophersaficomposerNah it shows just how underwhelming his character was that a lot of people including myself did not notice as well. If he was so great people would remember him more. Not the other way around. People don't forget things because they did such an amazing job.
Probably, the first major TV series from Amazon I skipped. Have 0 regrets, highly recommend it to everyone!
I recommend Hazbin Hotel instead
They have always been hit or miss. I miss the quality of the expanse, Amazon knew what they were doing back then
I know from certain individuals who have connections to the show that allegedly, it was a nightmare behind the scenes. people were fired left and right, writers couldn't agree what story they wanted to tell, the show was originally about a young Aragorn, some wanted to adapt the Silmarillion but didn't have the adaption rights to the book, the Tolkien estate giving them a long list of things they could and couldn't do on the show such as referencing the movies (even though the showrunners wanted to connect ROP to the movies) writers being fired because they wanted to insert more woke elemets into the show and was met with disapproval, Tolkien selling out to Bezos on his tantalizing and money venture in making LOTR into the next Game of Thrones (which we all know how highly successful that was) a Tolkien scholar being fired, COVID19 impacting everything, the originally being 10 episodes but somewhere being changed to 8 instead, Jeff Bezos allegedly visiting the set and was furious on what he saw and demanded changes to be made in the middle of shooting. All in all, this show was produced with everyone's hands tied behind their backs, not really knowing what they wanted to do and the clock was ticking, and the best they could come up with was fan fiction.
The only recent Amazon hit was Fallout. For Those About To Die also suffered from trivial / flat writing. It just had more nudity and violence to lean on
You recommend to EVERYONE skipping a show that many will enjoy? Not very smart, is it?
Imagine making Galadriel a bigger villain than Sauron
The source material and the fellowships quest make it very clear that it was a coin toss that she might have been one.
She explicitly only left Arda because she wanted Mastery of her Own Realm, and she could not return after the War of Wrath due to her own Pride.
@blenderbanana I can believe that but they're also not offering nearly enough consequences for her actions.
@@CordaroBlu Sure. I notice though that the arguments a lot of the critica seem to be making are based on an notable ignorance of the actual source material. That's all.
If you are suprised that Galadriel is a warrior princess, then you could not have digested the Silmarillion.
If you are suprised that "young" Galadriel is pig-headed, then you ignored her exile from Arda
@@blenderbananaI mean lets be real alot of the people having a fit about surface level things like galadriels attitude or or saurons actions were probably peter jackson fans first. All the people Ive seen that are hard core LotR folks say the show serves its purpose and is neither the best or the worst but serviceable.
Also all the jackson fans not lamenting about the removal of tom bombadil makes me laugh, a ton of my friends who read the books back and forth were pretty peeved about his absence.
@@DKSanX Bombadil's absence is still preferable to what they done in RoP. He seems like a completely different character compared to the book.
"20 pages in the Silmarillion" yeah as if they were even allowed to use it. They don't have the rights to the Silmarillion.
a total waste of 💰
"Let's make a prequel but not buy any of the rights to the extensive prequel lore." This show was dead before it even started production.
@@undercoverduckon the nose
not like they used the appendices
@@undercoverduck Even if they had the rights to every line of what Tolkien wrote they'd still end up with this show. Because fundamentally they have bad talent.
ROP is the epitome of everything wrong with entertaining industry today, movies, television, games, everything... ridiculously inflated budgets, incompetent hirelings, aggressive political agenda, complete lack of creativity and originality, obsession with franchises, endless recycling of old ideas, ruining old stories and characters...
The problem is not that it's "unfaithful" or that the elves have short hair. The problem is bad storytelling and world building.
In short, they thought they could out-write Tolkien. And they could not write a consistent show, regardless of the source material. Also, the had such an opportunity and they missed it. It will be impossible to make another attempt at this story in decades to come. Curse on them, indeed.
My biggest gripe with this show isn't even that they decided to make it. I think that adding tv shows and movies to franchises is pretty standard practice these days, with marvel and star wars milking the cash cow. My biggest gripe is that they did with absolutely zero creative desire behind it, and with a complete misunderstanding of the original source material. Peter jackson did an amazing job with lord of the rings and also with the hobbit in my opinion. Even with straying a little from the book, he made with movies extremely creatively and with clear reverence to the books. I'm fine with Amazon creating a show about the lore of how the rings were made, but if you're gonna do it, give it the respect it deserves.
It's hilarious that the producers said they wanted it to look "real and "lived in", and then proceeded to make almost the entire thing with painfully obvious CGI.
I agree with many of your points but not all, specifically the lack of book material being the main issue. Not wrong as such, there's no proper narrative plot to draw from so it's true enough. However, my main issue and what made me feel like it... wasnt Tolkien'esque was that what information we have, the showrunners ignore, twist, denature. Im not so concerned about filling gaps in information with new stuff, that could be interesting if done by people that know the source material thoroughly and care about it deeply. Dont wanna go through that effort? Then dont write for middle earth stories.
But this hasnt been the approach. Some changes or speculation like Galadriel being more headstrong, "unfinished" and warrior-like, at face value, is perfectly in line with Tolkien. Early Galadriel was exactly like this, she is still lingering in middle earth when all elves of her generation died or left millenia ago because she couldnt accept to be humbled and wanted to rule. So yeah, why not have this version. But they pushed it too far and had her do stuff that made no sense. She couldve been a warrior, she couldve been more rash and go for power but she didnt have to be ... what she was in season 1. The same thing works on most levels: if you read beyond the basic LotR books, you know lots was happening in the 2nd age and roughly what. They dont go for these things and instead concocted this half baked plot of proto Mordor and wanna show "how it became Mordor"... rather than the slow destructive process Tolkien described, one big explosion. How Hollywood.
A subset of fans got upset for entirely the wrong reasons, worrying about actors ethnicities and whatnot. What bullshit. I will say though, there too the showrunners missed so. many. opportunities. They couldve used existing lore and added good stuff to it. We the reader/viewer only know 2 clans of the dwarves. 95% of book dwarves and 100% of movie dwarves are longbeards (Durin's folk), some 1st age dwarves arent. But the other 5? We dont know about them. Have a PoC dwarf make a mention that she is from one of the 5 other clans would open the door for alot of welcome diversity in a lore-interesting way. Similarly, random PoC casting isnt bad for me but it couldve been done with purpose instead to add to the lore. Why is Numenor so white for instance? The queen isnt but... thats it. The Numenorians are descendants of those humans rewarded for standing with the Valar against Morgoth in the 1st age. Now, yes, we could be pedantic about the descriptions of the tribes in Silmarillion. But we could also just accept that a bunch of humans of all origins fought against evil and thus Numenor could be super diverse. In fact, the best fanart over the years depicted Numenor as this blend of medieval Europe and ancient Egypt. I want that in the show! Amazing costumes and a massive, grandiose place. Numenor was in itself the biggest problem for me in season 1. It was boring, the people were small and thinking and acting small. WTF. They're supposed to be the most badass superpower thats ever existed in Middle Earth:
Perspective time. The entire western army (Rohan + Gondor) in LotR is literally described as just as big as the vanguard of old-Gondor armies... and Gondor is just the colony, the weaker new iteration, of old Numenor. We should have fleets so large they could make a travelling shot over an ocean filled with their craft - instead, they conduct a cavalry charge against a small orc band in a random village. With the queen leading for some odd reason. They missed the mark on epic by several orders of magnitude.
Plus nonsense Mithril origins plus LOTS of stupid details that are just wrong.
I cound't agree more!
It’s just bad fan fiction, not even real lord of the rings
Agree 100%. Also, it’s so frustrating when there’s so little quality produced fantasy content and they can’t even get it right. Also also, they had so much material with the Silmarillion, I was so hoping for a Margoth storyline but we’re stuck with this fanfic trash
What's insane is that this thing had everything going for it - a ridiculous budget, Peter Jackson expressing a willingness to help, Tom Shippey on board, the example of Jackson's LOTR model to emulate, and a ready-made audience that would have hysterically embraced the show and made it the most successful property in history if done right. And they just threw that all in a giant dumpster and tossed in a Molatov cocktail. After season 1, I didnt believe this could be fixed. They would have had to fire the showrunners, most of the cast, the costume designers, and basically made an entirely different show. I have seen LOTR probably 50 times by now, and every time I'm on the edge of my seat, filled with all kinds of emotions - it feels warm and alive, and the stakes feel real. The elves feel ethereal and mysterious. The hobbits feel merry and loyal. Gandalf feels wise and powerful and inscrutable. The orcs are terrifying and EVIL. It is telling that the only compelling character in ROP is Adar - it's par for the course of "modern sensibilities" where characters can't simply be evil because they are. For good characters to fail, they have to be stupid, arrogant, and constantly make idiotic choices - it can't be that they are up against the full dark power of evil and only prevail through struggle, camaraderie, and refusing to surrender to evil - those are oldtimey ideas that have no place in the modern world, I guess. They tried to do this with the Harfoots and Gandalf and failed because they hadn't earned the audience caring about these characters at all. And that's the deepest problem - who cares about these characters? Who cares if Galadriel is captured by orcs? Who cares if the Harfoots are captured by an evil wizard? Who cares if Sauron ever gets his dumb rings finished? It feels like watching a high school play based on some drama kid's fan fiction. It might be impressive if that's what it was. But it's the most expensive show in history with a standard already set that was so far superior it makes ROP look like a bad joke.
Totally agree. All of the fans wanted so badly for it to be epic and amazing, and if it had been, it would have been off-the-charts successful. Instead, we get this mess. It's a colossal swing and a miss, and honestly, I'm not convinced they were actually trying to hit the ball. That's the really infuriating part.
Great to see a video that can critically look at the issues of the show without the need for whining and hyperbole.
I enjoy the show overall, but won't deny there are issues with it. The first is the basic premise, and the challenges with telling this story. While the 2nd age related Sil chapters ("Akallabêth" and "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age") are a goldmine for a tv series with lots of cool stuff happening, the events take place over hundreds of years. So they had to find a way to make sure they delivered on expectations of the key events, without condensing it so much that character development suffered. Unfortunately, for all of the efforts of the actors involved, the characters (except Sauron and perhaps Adar) universally suffer.
The other issue for me is some of the needless decisions that have been made. For example, they were presented a golden opportunity to tell an original story (the blue wizards) that could still fit with the lore and timeline, but instead chose to fast forward Gandalf's (and I presume Saruman's) entry a thousand years too early, presumably on orders from Amazon to include well-known characters. Another is characterization of Galadriel and co. I have no issue with Galadriel as a strong character who can look after herself in a fight, and I'm glad they tried to make her a bit wiser in S2. But even at this point she is one of the oldest elves and spends most of the series being spoken down to by her inferiors, or getting the hots for guys she is around (I at least hope the kiss with great-nephew Elrond was a ruse, but it wasn't presented that way).
The third is that for all the money they've spent, it still looks 'cheap' at times. Numenor, Lindon and Eregion seems to consist of a few hundred people, with Khazad-dûm the only place where you can feel the scope. As the video points out, it is a visual match for the Hobbit, and lacks the 'realness' of the original trilogy.
That said, I like the story they are trying to tell, I think the creation of Adar and development of Sauron as a character has been excellent, that (despite the inconsistent visuals) the design of the show is beautiful. The dialogue and performances of the actors makes up for the difficult (and sometimes questionable) story elements, and you can't deny they are giving their absolute all for the material. The above is still enough for me to like the show overall, but for everything great, there seems to be something that undoes that good work.
Its as if these studios couldn't wait for Christopher Tolkien to pass so they could bastardise his fathers work.
Exactly. I fear what’s going to happen to Back to the Future when Gale and Zemeckis pass and Universal comes to their families with buckets of money.
The issue with these current series trying to focus solely on mystery boxes as the main drive for the story is that everything in its narrative and structure must be contorted just to arrive at a certain spot meaning so little can actually meaningfully happen until that "mystery" can be revealed, and when the reveal turns out to be little more than fan service (like how s1 ended with Sauron's reveal and s2 with Gandalf's reveal), all it serves is to make the world that much smaller despite its large scale.
First of all, yes, RoP is a horrible travesty.
As for the forging of the Rings, while (as you say) it doesn't get a lot of pages in Tolkien's primary works (Silmarillion, The Hobbit, LotR), I think this story has an important thematic role in the Legendarium. Celebrimbor, as Fëanor's only grandchild, both suffers the final blow of the Doom of Mandos and redeems his heritage by acting with honor for the common good. Most importantly, his independent creation of the final three lesser rings made it possible for some elves to thrive in Middle Earth until the end of the Third Age. Sauron would have triumphed rather easily if elves like Glorfindel, Elrond, and Galadriel had sailed into the West long ago.
My greatest confusion about RoP is why they rearranged the order and circumstances in which the 16, 3, and 1 were created. The way they've done it makes everything nonsensical, requiring multiple characters to behave idiotically to make the plot work.
The Hobbit is defo underrated
Thanks for bringing up the issue of visuals, I was beginning to question myself, hearing some of the most agressive RoP haters praising the "gorgeous look of the show". Its like we havent watched the same thing... overproduced is very accurate tag, well said. And some of the costumes and props are so bad, especially armour and weapons... there are 5$ toys in chinese stores that look more authentic than Dwarven axes or Numenorian breastplates and scale armor. Everything looks plastic and cheap... only wide shots of landscapes look good, and special effects with the exception of those rocks from Mordor volcano raining down on the village... they look more like a mortar barrage 😂
Gil-galad in particular got done dirty by the costumers. Everything he wears looks like foam and polyester.
I especially like how that gold sash he wears with the runes on, says "High King" like a "Manager" badge in a store.
Adar was great, I actually quite liked the changes to and inclusion of Bombadil, and I appreciated the sentiment of Gandalf and the halflings backstory leading to his fondness of Hobbits. Otherwise, wow, how did most of the other decisions make it past the conceptual phase?
The Hobbit was always meant to be.
It's own story. He was forced into making lots of the rings because fans and his publishers wanted him to. The Slimarillion was basically.
His his own passion project, that He was never gonna publish himself Due to the fact that he thought that it would be only interesting to him.
Nobody forced Tolkien to write LOTR, dude. His publisher asked him about it several times, and that got him thinking. He then went ahead and _started_ writing it. It took him nearly 20 years, so no, there was no "forcing" about it. He had a perfectly good day job; writing fiction was just a hobby that ended up making him some money.
@@Serai3 The Lord of the Rings was never meant to be a direct line sequel to The Hobbit.
@@jaredmarkham7300 Um. yes it was. That was the whole point. The publisher wanted a sequel to The Hobbit, which had sold very well. Tolkien started out writing a sequel to the Hobbit, but according to him, the older stories kept worming their way into it. Jeez, have none of you ever bothered to read Tokien's biography? Or his published letters? Or any of Tom Shippey's books on Tolkien? You seem ignorant of the most rudimentary knowledge about how he wrote and what he intended. Please, for gods' sakes, get the least bit informed before you make such painfully uninformed statements!
@@Serai3 Look in the forward to the fellowship of the ring as well as the preface to the Slimarillion
I've read from I think what Christopher Tolkien wrote or, or what he himself wrote maybe in letters, that he planned LotR to be the conclusion to a two part saga, first being War of the Jewels and the 2nd being War of the Ring. They were all passion projects, he certainly didn't do it cause he thought he was gonna be rich or something lol
Amazon picked terrible people all around for this show. Everything looks like costumes, set pieces, and county playhouse acting. And that's the problem. This is what happens when you ignore lore experts and surround yourself with unvetted talent, yes men, and dart sniffers. Also they laundered millions, because the money never hit the screen.
I've learned from the traumatic, disappointing experiences to take all TV/Movie adaptations of beloved books as "Fanfiction POVs". I've found it to be less intoxicating/disheartening, and a more enjoyable time while getting a "high-budget fanfiction POV.". The earliest I can remember is Spielberg's Jurassic Park from Michael Crichton's book all the way up to, of course, GRRM's ASOIAF disastrous adaptation-including the early seasons, with the producer's "logical" mindset of "What if we produce a TV show completely based on a fantasy series, but let's remove as many fantasy elements as possible because we didn’t just want to appeal to that type of fan- but to expand the fan base to people beyond the fantasy fan base, like "mothers and NFL players." I simply refused to keep souring my experiences with the usual "but the book says" mindset. The book are the books, and the shows are adaptations.
To be honest, although I have read the books, know "most" of the lore, LOVE the stories, and so on, I'm not a Tolkien zealot(?). Some of his writing, while magical can tend to be deliberate, which, while offering depth to the world building some of his descriptive language may occasionally feel too dense or too slow-paced, absolute black and white morality, underdeveloped shallow characters, etc . Yes, I understand they were written almost 100 years ago, WWI (hope and despair) and correspond to the overall styling of the age (i.e., I, Claudius, blah blah), and it may make it challenging to maintain reader engagement over extended sections.
Therefore, I DO like TROP so far (as a POV) and entered the show knowing well beforehand that Amazon didn't have the copyrights to key material in JRRT's work and will do pretty much "whatever they could/wanted" because "it is theirs", as every other Studio has been doing since the dawn of cinema. I still think Adar is not a new random character but an unlicensed one-tinfoil hat on: Maglor. Could it be better? OF COURSE. Could it be more accurate? NO DOUBT.
In the end, I am happy to see my favorite fantasy series making it to mainstream media, having a high production budget (I see you 90s adaptations) and not just living in my head and imagination.
The only problem with the show is people are over critical of it.
Just entertainment so why bash it?
It's because of woke, although I don't find this woke at all. I'm anti-woke, but people are overreacting. After watching reaction videos of TROP, I thought that this was gonna be hell'a bad. So I avoided it for 2 years. Smh. I truly missed out back then. I love this show so much, it's one of the best shows I've ever seen.
Fact check: Amazon bought the rights to the Appendices. As demonstrated by Tolkien Untangled's video essays that means they have 'plenty' of material for an excellent second age story. The lack of canon or available story is not why they failed. They failed because they are terrible story tellers and that incompetence is exacerbated by a fundamental failure to understand the themes of Tolkien's world
Well said!
Changes to characters and character motivation and changes from source material are only the surface problems with the show. The reality is the rings of power is a bad show, written and produced by incompetent people and acted by amateur actors.
At the end of the day I just don’t think this show was needed- part of the intrigue and excitement of Middle Earth is how we only really get to know it when it begins to die- it’s glory years are behind it, and the fact that we’ve only heard about those years through song and legend are what make them even more spectacular. I wish people better understood that good world building is not explaining every single detail to death, but instead making some place intriguing with enough mystery to make it feel big.
A big problem is the lack of respect they have for the source material. Established characters are not yours to play with for fun. You can totally do interesting things with the setting of Middle-Earth - but don't just screw with the continuity for money.
they’re like kids playing with their older siblings action figures 😓
Honestly that's a weak argument. Tolkien used to remake stuff a lot. If it makes sense and it's well put, it shouldn't matter.
If you don't care about lore, then cribbing also creates problems. Copy and paste risks bringing across moral messaging or symbolism that doesn't work in the mishmash you've created. But the big problem for me was the question of what was this season about? Where there cohesive themes? Symbolism? Numenor could have been interesting (as you had characters allowing themselves to be sacrificed to sea monsters in the name of their faith), but was given about as much time as whether Isildur gets with some random girl.
They didn't respect the source material. They didn't create something super compelling (to me at least) in lieu. And when they borrowed from the source, they needed to make sure it wasn't injecting incoherence.
Yeah totally lol @gurixd100
The writing is a bit disjointed, but I really like the character of Sauron. The actor who is playing him is excellent. I have watched those scenes over and over again. It is the oddest thing. You want to like the character, and sometimes you might, but then you see how ruthless he is...the great deceiver. The actor's expressions go from kind to literally terrifying. I can't wait to see more of that storyline. If they could get that same kind of thing in all the writing, it would be great. I like most of the actors as well, and I don't mind if they stray a bit from the book in that regard. You will always have those that think you can't stray from the original story. I don't agree. When you take a song and redo it, if done right, it is very cool.
I think this could be the same kind of thing. I like it overall. Again, just wish the writing was at the same level throughout.
Well, I must say that while I agree with a lot of your points, I’ve really enjoyed the show for what it is. It doesn’t make the books worse, it doesn’t make the movies worse, so I guess I don’t understand a lot of the truly vitriolic backlash it’s gotten online(not that this video is part of the vitriol).
That poem at the end of the video has to be the funniest thing to come out of all this 🤣
Giving the show to inexperienced people that really don't care to tell Tolkien's story but they're own leading to a total disrespect for the source material. And also trying to infuse current day ideology into the show to cater to a modern audience that doesn't exist.
What went wrong? I think the 3 main problems are 1) You cannot make a TV show about 3.400 years of history, 2) A mystery box prequel? Really? 3) Constant efforts to play everything for nostalgia
Add an unhealhty amount of disrespect for the source material and you've got yourself a recipe for disaster
ad 1) They could but they would have to focus on a particular event in each season, or a closely related series of events happening around the same time. Like it was with Hobbit or LotR. Those are self-sufficient enclosed stories but they still fit into the larger picture. They could take a few stories from Silmarillion and make an anthology.
"Tolkien's cozy fairy story" What are you on about there brother? 😂
I disagree. I have been enjoying this so far. It's really easy to dump on anything; people do this to make themselves feel bigger.
Its even easier to dump on something that is objectively bad, like ROP
The character 'secrets' of who was Sauron and the Stranger was is so painfully obivious, I didn't even watch this show and GUESSED who these characters were from the first time they were in a trailer. Like OF COURSE that is who they are!!
The thing about season 1 that turned me off from going any further was how events that were supposed to take place across centuries occurred over the course of a long weekend. It's a very cramped and small tale that just didn't match with the sweeping epic Fellowship's prologue hinted at.
Yeah, Peter Jackson would've never done tha- ... oops wait.
@@FilmscoreMetaler Bit different when you only have 2 hours to tell a books story. Less forgivable when you have an entire show and are literally writing it yourself.
No excuse. HotD has a lot of timeskips, which they execute very well. Elves don't age, but nonetheless you can certainly tell to the viewer that X years have passed without yelling.
It's bad storytelling, plain and simple. The showrunners need to be canned and sent to the Void.
There is one thrown away line from Waldreg that the South landers have been in the elves old fort for "a couple weeks" and the ridiculous implication that Galadriel and Halbrand rode from Pelegar to Eregion in 6 days without killing their horses so I give the whole of season 1 like, 4 weeks. Which is outrageous.
It might be an unpopular opinion but I think The Silmarillion could be easily adapted into a dark, political fantasy story, so Amazon could have actually gotten their competitor to GoT if that's what they wanted - if they had the rights to the material of course, which they don't. The fact they basically bought the wrong books and then spent a billion on a poor attempt at fanfiction would be funny if the whole thing wasn't so disrespectful and annoying.
From what i understand the Tolkien Estate doesn't want to sell the Silmarillion rights. And honestly I am glad for it if thats the case, thats a story best left to readers, films tend to have a way of stripping things down to basic elements. We got lucky with LOTR films, but clearly its never going to happen again, not by Jackson, or any new showrunners. I was secretly hoping years before any of this was announced that we would get an HBO LOTR remake as a series, but the Tolkien estate didnt want that. Big mistake in my opinion.
This may be an unpopular opinion, and I know it's popular to hate on this show, but I've been enjoying the Rings of Power series for what it is (especially season 2 is better than season 1). I didn't care for the writing of Galadriel, but Adar, Sauron, Durin, etc. were well written and acted.
And I'm a big fan of the Lord of the Rings. I saw the movies when they first came out in theaters, read all the books years ago. I don't need for things to be a perfect adaptation to be able to enjoy it.
Damn, can’t remember the last time this channel went hard after a studio. Narrator sounded angry lol
The saddest part, is what it COULD have been, with the resorces given to it, sadly i doubt we will ever see anything like the original 3, yes that includes the coming movie. There wil be forced narrative there, mark my words. The "anime" coming is walking on thin ice aswell and it just makes me sad that producers start i with gold in terms of material and ends up with a big cow dung at the end.
Hmm, epic, complex and dark storylines at least are entirely Tolkien. I mean, that's basically the whole of the Silmarillion
The problem with rings of power is the 2020's ideology about cannon which shouldn't apply to a story told by two different people over 100 years adapted into 6 movies 2 cartoons and 16 episodes from a dozen different books and over 350 letters with a great many contradiction...and its not finished. So no...people should just relax maybe cut their caffeine intake and take the show for what it is. A fantasy. Or you can not watch it.
while this show isn't a masterpiece. Its definitely better than the hobbit trilogy and has characterizations that I personally welcome into the fold. (Sauron, Adar, Celebrimbor)
Told myself I wouldn’t listen to all the video voiceovers from UA-cam and watch the series and make my own conclusions. I will he completely honest. It’s a decent show that has been over blown since its inception. They talk about the greatest budget ever yet the battles just seem so small. Also like someone said each setting has only a few places you see. That’s normal though but take game of thrones and we see the scale of these places through fly overs or some other device. They have made middle earth unpopulated it feels like. The army numbers for GoT are way overblown but I can still see that as possible. Where as the armies and populations of middle earth make it seem like this is a third world country that the majority of Arda’s population stays away from like the plague. Pretty much my biggest gripe is that. The scale they hyped up just doesn’t exist.
Did they ever market it that way? I think "the most expensive series ever" was just what news sites reported. Still then the production budget is much less than what the movie trilogy had available.
This video puts into words what I’ve had trouble conveying to my peers who enjoy Rings of Power: The intentions behind a creative project matter just as much as the content itself. Artistic liberties aside (since Jackson’s version had plenty of those) Amazon’s show simply wasn’t crafted in the spirit of Tolkien’s work. It was a cynical attempt to monopolize a fanbase.
I'd have secured the rights in the Silmarillion. The Children of Hurin and Fall of Gondolin would make more sense as Dark Shakespearen adaptations.
True, but there was plenty in the appendices to make a good series. They could have done the making of the ROP, or the fall of Numenor, or the coming of the Balrog. Any of those could have worked. Instead, they did a mish-mash of all three, and did it badly.
Hollywood must really hate Peter Jackson for LOTR, because after that trilogy, fans and cinemagoers felt they had a right to well written and professionally made movies. People may have had the mistake impression that the trilogy set the benchmark for things to come.
Guys, this project was Never intended to succeed. It‘s only a Billion Dollar advertisment for Amazon
I watched the first episodes just because of JA Bayona
I'm a fan of his work, since THE IMPOSSIBLE
He's a great director.
'Tolkien fanfiction' is the most accurate account of this show. It's fanfiction acted out by actors. An anthology based series with each season taking place in a different area would have been much cooler. Like season 1 - silmarillion anthology. Season 2 - history of shire. Etc.
In the bubble of negativity that is UA-cam, I'd agree that it's fallen flat. But if you go out to talk to people in the real world who have seen it then the opinion of the show is much higher.
Any show is dead to me if I ever saw some producer or actor attacking the fans. I don't even want to know who is right or wrong. I just like to stay away from controversy and devote my time to beloved products.
This video way to short for all the problems in that show 😂
If only we had 2 hours, haha.
@@Nerdstalgic Not worth the effort for such a dumpster fire.
5:02 THANK YOU! God the costumes annoyed me. Over polished cosplay outfits… reminded me of Warcraft movie.
I really appreciate that small poem in the end, well done!
No half measures waltuh, you're tom bumbling it!
When Amazon is hiring a warehouse manager in a small town in the middle of nowhere, they ask for several years of relevant experience in managing positions. So when they hired 2 bafoons with no experience whatsoever, let alone relevant one with achievements of any kind, for the roles of showrunners of a billion-dollars-per-season project - we know its not ignorance, because they know how HR works. In doing that, they made very clear their attitude towards Tolkien. Why, I cant say. It probably has something to do with American politics, which I know little about
"Braveheart, not Narnia" is precisely what we got. Just maybe not in the way the producers intended.
I fast forward through all of the Numenor plot. It makes watching a smidge better, but not by much.
Your video's are really good I binged all of them
Glad you like them!
I loved it personally. These are stories of the in between and the past. You can’t compare the books to the movie, or the show to the movie. It’s one view of the past.
As we all look at the past we see the same situations from different angles . I think this show has found its own space. I enjoy it for what it is. To me it stays true to Tolkiens many invaluable lessons. The light will always drown out the darkness, there is a fine line between good and evil and we all have the potential for both, the biggest foe is often ourselves.
Once JRR and Christopher put these stories out in the world it became everyone’s. That’s the deal with all art and storytelling. The lessons we take from it are the ones most important to us. I enjoy watching a take on the in between.
That said , this video is really well put together and I love to hear other opinions. Well done.
Tom Bombadill, been around since the beginning of time, refuses entirely to leave his land. Except that one time he had a brief stint in Rhun of course...
Tom's "land" used to be the whole of Beleriand. It was only by the time of LOTR that his domain had shrunk to the small area encompassing the Old Forest and the Barrow Downs. I'm not defending this stupid series, just pointing out that there could well be stories of Tom's influence in earlier ages. :)
@@Serai3 i've not heard of that before, quite interesting. as far as i know, his history before settling in the old forest is unknown but from my assumption of him "witnessing the shrinking of the forests" would imply that maybe the old forest stretched into beleriand, but still made his home the old forest? idk if you know something i don't but lmk if im onto something here hahah
@@Serai3 There's a reason why Bombadil lives in a lush forest near a river... and I just couldn't help but laugh when he started singing about willows and rivers at the end of episode 8 while he's in a desert.
6:40, Beyond just the questionable concept of moral complexity in this franchise, which itself isn't an inherent problem if the narrative was intended to explore how corruptible people are and how Sauron managed to get as far as he did, the fact that the way the story explores these themes and the characters it uses to explore them are largely underdeveloped or boring makes it even more frustrating, since it could have made for some interesting story beats.
Jackson & Associates: keep it simple,stay in spirit
ROP Showrunners: f*ck it,a shipping we will go
😅
I’m happy to have access to middle earth but I agree with your points.
it has nothing to do with Tolkien's Middle-Earth except for names of some of the characters
it really doesnt even seem like lord of the rings, it feels like a new dam universe entirely. I also hate how they characterized Sauron, he feels like a spoiled brat and whiny when he doesnt get what he wants rather than actually threatening or scary. The way he tortured whatever his name was (these characters are so unremarkable and so uncharacteristic i cant even remember their names) it felt weird and like Sauron was having a tantrum. Overall.. -10/10 i hate this series
All is good. How you combine different book movie and tv show?
At first, I was excited, then as it got closer to airing, I became less and less enthused.
1. I learned they only really had the rights to the appendices and some other stuff, so there's not really much to make a cohesive story
2. I watched the "superfans" video
3. I watched the trailers where they focused mainly on sets, and not so much the characters
I rather disagree. In the right hands, though I realize that is a difficult task in today's modern cinema, but there is a lot in the appendices to create a coherent and even lore-accurate show.
For example, there is a bounty of info regarding young Aragorn: His journeys and adventures as Thorongil in service at Rohan to King Thengel. With that, there's a chance to show off other lesser-known characters like Thengel's wife Morwen Steelsheen, a Gondorian noble woman, their children, little kid Theoden, his sisters etc. Then his service to Ecthelion in Gondor and young Denethor harboring rivalry thoughts towards this stranger, the famous attack on Umbar, Aragorn sailing on ships commanding fleets, sea battles with Corsairs of Umbar. His journeys into "far countries of Rhun and Harad where the stars are strange", where he was "exploring hearts of men both evil and good and uncovering plots and devices of the servants of Sauron", his first crossing of Moria, his love story with Arwen, the story of his parents, Gilraen and Arathorn, Aragorn's grandparents Dirhael and Ivorwen etc.
I would love to have seen those stories fleshed out in the form of a TV series. But again, in the right hands, perhaps even the Russo brothers. A young Aragorn story could have been great! And may still be. Perhaps they'll team up with PJ and begin fleshing out the beats. Take a couple of years like they did with LotR before pitching it to a studio, maybe even New Line again, or maybe HBO.
The "mystery box" of who the secret Sauron is was what absolutely killed the first season. Adar was really cool as the possible dark lord who hates Sauron... and then they screwed him. Gandalf the Salt and Pepper was totally wasted. And then you have Wal-Mart Aragorn, who probably would've been way more interesting as the young version of the Witch King of Angmar.
The issue with streaming TV is that hard work and spending money to make a good product isn't their business model. They want people to subscribe to their service. Hyping something to get subscribers is far cheaper than actually making a good show that keeps people coming back.
Rings of power could get recut into a pretty solid movie if they cut lots of the crap. Honestly
The most interesting character is Adar. They should have focused on him and his attempt to create a land for the Orcs and other things that go bump in the night while the Elves and Men try to prevent it.
Sauron should just be a shadow pulling the strings and not an actual visualized character. Galadriel and Elrond should have been tertiary characters at best.
Or just make a show all about Khazad-dûm. Dwarves are interesting characters that don't get enough story time.
guess Amazon chose wrongly with their decision as to the current novice showrunners,that Aragon pitch sounded pretty interesting 🤔
... and it would've been made by the Russo brothers, not these amateurs. Very bad choice.
The unfortunate problem is that it exists
Jackson’s trilogy is epic and can never be surpassed.
I really wish the writers had read a single f*cking page of the Silmarillion. Humanizing Sauron is ridiculous, this isnt harry potter, he's not some corrupted good guy, he was made evil by Morgoth to serve in his armies. Making Galadriel some sword-wielding warrior is so out of character. Cate Blanchett did a wonderful portrayal and still remained a badass powerful Elf who is adored by fans. I guess to be a powerful woman in Hollywood you have to portray them how you would a stereotypical male 😅 smh
Well, you could say Sauron wasn't really humanized in this sense, because his more "relatable" presentation was an act he played to deceive the other characters. In the lore, that's exactly what he's doing: pretending to have changed into a more noble being, so that he can make elves and men trust him. Also, the lore can imo be interpreted in a way where Galadriel was more rebellious in her "days of youth". If I remember correctly, she followed Fëanor across the Sea, which was against the will of the Valar.
Chewed my way through the first season like a *very* well-done steak your prospective partner's mother has made for you, largely because I'd started it and wanted to give it time. Not for all the mithril in Khazad-Dum would I have gone back for a second helping! 5 seasons? Only if Jeff the Witch King can't admit he f-d up! (Wanted to call him the Dark Lord, but felt there might be one or two above him qualifying as Sauron or even Morgoth himself!)
What went wrong was the story is all over the place. If the show is the Rings of Power, it should focus on Sauron’s rise and creation of the rings exclusively without the other storylines that feel shoehorned in. Most notably the hobbits, Gandalf, Galadriel’s story not even remotely following the books, etc. It’s what bothers me most about the show because you’ll have these moments of potential. Charlie Vickers did an extraordinary job and, he should have been the main focus. My point is there are too many characters who we do not care about.
"Morfydd Clark is talented" ... Good one
I watched a couple grueling episodes and remember thinking…huh, Adar is almost something worth watching.
Prequels are invariably a bad idea. Even when well done, you have a very strictly enforced endpoint you must adhere to and that severely limits both your character and plot choices, and will often leave your story feeling disjointed and stunted as you try to fill all the pegs into their respective holes.
Monsters University is probably the only prequel I can think of that managed to avoid these pitfalls, nd Disney side-stepped the issue with Cruella and Maleficent by essentially having them as reboots or alternate-takes on a story.
Add that this show is meant to be part of the universe created by one of the most beloved and revered writers in fantasy literature, and you've a recipe for critical disaster
Personally, I think that if one ignores the pedigree the show is defiling, you have a perfectly serviceable, "nothing special" piece of TV fluff that allows you to kill an hour a week on your sofa. C+ TV, with an unnervingly familiar background. If you have to consider the Tolkienology, view it through the same lens you view the weaker Star Trek and Doctor Who episodes
Thank you for explaining this in the way I couldn't seem to find words for. I couldn't agree more.