This was so interesting and good to 'meet' Moshe and learn more about Michael's family. When I first discovered the 'new Mormon History' Mike's book was one of the first I read - Mormonism and the Magic World View - how that opened my eyes! I have always been so thankful to honest historians. When your gut tells you that something is not right like mine did, you have to find out why and I have been finding out ever since. Thank you Landon and Rebecca and to your two guests.
Moshe is an honorable son, in that he had to live with his father missing in ways that must have been difficult as a young boy. And yet, you can hear the love in his voice for his late father.
Michael was in our ward in Connecticut then again in the Avenues. My brother was good friends with Michael and paid for the publishing of one of his books. I was friends with Michael’s wife through the divorce. Michael was supportive of my brother as he maneuvered through leaving the church. My brother loaned me all of Michael’s books to read in September when the podcasts were out. He said Michael told him he believed Joseph was a mystic and never stopped believing.
Very nice and interesting podcast. Thank you. I'd like to add that when I was 10 or 11 years old (1978-ish), President Kimball attended an open house we had for my great grandmother after her house was remodeled from a devastating fire. He went around and greeted every man, woman, and child. He looked at each of us deep in the eyes and also kissed every single one of us, some multiple times. Hearing this experience in this podcast brought back that memory of his outpouring of fatherly love and kindness. At this time of life, I do not agree with many of his teachings and leadership. That said, he sure left a sweet, loving impression on family and friends that day... both members and non-members.
I'm so glad you did this podcast. I'm super excited to read this book by a man who, in a way, experienced the struggle every ex Mormon must face as we choose our paths in life that ultimately clash with the Mormon hierarchy. I definitely had some tears listening to this. You guys are brilliant and do a great job with very interesting topics!
The one most influential person (among many) convincing me to lose my Mormon faith in 2000 was Quinn and his Mormon Heirarchy books. I was shocked when I found out Quinn remained a true believing Mormon even after he got excommunicated. Then I found out he was gay. I was disappointed, not because he was gay, but because I suspected that being gay would give Quinn's detractor's an excuse to claim he was excommunicated for immorality. I highly recommend all of Quinn's books.
Can’t stay to chat yet I wanted to comment and express my love and respect for Quinn’s research and writing. I’m truly a footnote lovin gal and read them in totality. Quinn gave us all of the footnotes combined with the receipts. Thanks panel for sharing his story. In my eyes he’s a trailblazing hero of truthful Mormon history and one of the earliest who were able to operate mostly on the inside. I can’t wait to read this new book.
Really loved Moshe's insights about his Dad. I also thought the incident recounted about Mike Flinns encounter with Kimball revealed something about Kimball and his state of mind.
Thank you, thank you, thank you D. Michael Quinn for the life you lived!!! You have positively affected mine and I admire your courage and intelligence.
I don’t know a lot about the subject. Just curious. One thing I will say is thank you for caring about audio quality. I’ve tried to listen to some videos and it sounds like people are speaking in a canyon.
There is a chapter of Dr. Quinn's journey of writing from his own journals in the book "Writing Mormon History," Joe Geisner, Editor. Pub. Signature. 2020 (Just as Covid hit!)
Loving this episode. I identify with Michael in many ways, reconciling hidden homosexuality with a desire for the love of God; loving the church and its history.
When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you signs and wonders to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. God Himself warns us about this in: MATTHEW 24:23-24 "Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..." Mormons teach and believe that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. So Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in? A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan. OR B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
Mormonism isn't about the Bible or Jesus, it's a way of life. If they actually read the Bible, people would leave the "church". People who have left the "church" generally leave because they found out that they were lied to about things. Very few mormons leave the "church" because they finally read the Bible and discovered that they had been told lies. They don't leave mormonism to draw closer to God / Jesus. The majority that leave go into New Age and things along that line. It's almost never about a relationship with Jesus. Most that leave the corporation just stay mad about all the lies and then embrace everything and anything they've been taught to hate or not do. None of it is actually Biblical. They THINK it is, but it's not. Or they were taught about something and it was taught wrong. Mormonism was invented by Freemasons to draw people away from Jesus Christ. That's the only purpose it ever had. And it did.
@moshequinn8541 First, it is not me who judges. It is God who judges you when you reject his word. JOHN 12:48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day..." Next, let me point out the following . It was the Mormon church who attacked Christianity and all other religions when Joseph Smith said that "all the churches are wrong and an abomination before God..." (Joseph Smith--History 1:19). For over 194 years the Mormon church has supported their racists doctrine that all blacks are cursed by God. The God of the Bible would never curse an entire race of people, especially generations of innocent people born after the "ALLEGED CURSED" took place. God had NOTHING to do with this Mormon curse on all blacks. This is the racists attitude and doctrine of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and the Mormon church. Let's go back in time to September 1857 to the MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE in which "Mormons" led by John D Lee murdered 120-140 innocent men, women, and CHILDREN of the Baker-Fancher wagon train. Later, before his death, John D Lee confessed that Brigham Young gave him the order to kill all those innocent people. And to add insult to the victims, the Mormon church names a university after Brigham Young (BYU). Most recently the Mormon church has settled multiple multi-million dollar sexual assault lawsuits and paid a $5 million fine to the IRS/SEC for lying on tax returns and stealing tithe money from church members. So please, don't stand there thinking you have some kind of "moral high ground" on me or anyone else who questions the truthfulness of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. God gives us all the right to question anyone/church claiming to be of God. I JOHN 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world..."
@@moshequinn8541 He's not trying to attack you. He's speaking truth. Is it loving to let someone stay in a burning building? The BOM is a complete lie and has been debunked by the very people who interviewed you. I just don't understand why they didn't speak up. Was that loving and kind? Nothing about this interview made sense. It was painful to watch, a lot of mixed messages. Don't trust the ones that are quick to tell you what you want to hear. People lie just to get along. Appreciate when someone takes the time to bring something to your attention, the truth can be very uncomfortable.
@moshequinn8541 First, it is not me who judges. It is God who judges you when you reject his word. JOHN 12:48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day..." Next, let me point out the following. It was the Mormon church who attacked Christianity and all other religions first when Joseph Smith said that "all the churches are wrong and an abomination before God..." ( Joseph Smith--History 1:19). For over 194 years the Mormon church has supported their racists doctrine that all blacks are cursed by God. The God of the Bible would never curse an entire race of people, especially generations of innocent people born after the "ALLEGED CURSED" took place. God had NOTHING to do with this Mormon curse on all blacks. This is the racists attitude and doctrine of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and the Mormon church. Let's go back in time to September 1857 to the MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE in which "Mormons" led by John D Lee murdered 120-140 innocent men, women, and CHILDREN of the Baker-Fancher wagon train. Later, before his death, John D Lee confessed that Brigham Young gave him the order to kill all those innocent people. And to add insult to the victims, the Mormon church names a university after Brigham Young (BYU). How insensitive and heartless of the Mormon church! Most recently the Mormon church has settled multi-million dollar sexual assault lawsuits and paid a $5 million fine to the IRS/SEC for lying on tax returns and stealing tithe money from church members. So please, don't stand there thinking you have some kind of "moral high ground" on me or anyone else who questions the truthfulness of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. God gives us all the right to question anyone/church claiming to be of God. I JOHN 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world..."
Please clarify what you are asking. This episode was not about the Book of Mormon (which we know is a 19th century fraud) but the Bible has just as many issues and Biblical scholarship has demonstrated that the Bible was not written by Moses or Matthew or Mark or John and is as much a manipulative set of canon as is the Book of Mormon. This episode wasn’t about finding truth in the Bible or the Book of Mormon…it was about a book (Chosen Path) about finding out the truth about yourself and how you come to accept yourself when it contradicts the teaching of the religion you love. D. Michael Quinn was an example to all of us as to how to Handel that situation with grace and style!
This was so interesting and good to 'meet' Moshe and learn more about Michael's family. When I first discovered the 'new Mormon History' Mike's book was one of the first I read - Mormonism and the Magic World View - how that opened my eyes! I have always been so thankful to honest historians. When your gut tells you that something is not right like mine did, you have to find out why and I have been finding out ever since. Thank you Landon and Rebecca and to your two guests.
Moshe is an honorable son, in that he had to live with his father missing in ways that must have been difficult as a young boy. And yet, you can hear the love in his voice for his late father.
Michael was in our ward in Connecticut then again in the Avenues. My brother was good friends with Michael and paid for the publishing of one of his books. I was friends with Michael’s wife through the divorce. Michael was supportive of my brother as he maneuvered through leaving the church. My brother loaned me all of Michael’s books to read in September when the podcasts were out. He said Michael told him he believed Joseph was a mystic and never stopped believing.
Very nice and interesting podcast. Thank you.
I'd like to add that when I was 10 or 11 years old (1978-ish), President Kimball attended an open house we had for my great grandmother after her house was remodeled from a devastating fire. He went around and greeted every man, woman, and child. He looked at each of us deep in the eyes and also kissed every single one of us, some multiple times. Hearing this experience in this podcast brought back that memory of his outpouring of fatherly love and kindness.
At this time of life, I do not agree with many of his teachings and leadership. That said, he sure left a sweet, loving impression on family and friends that day... both members and non-members.
What an absolute treat. Thank you to all involved xXx
I'm so glad you did this podcast. I'm super excited to read this book by a man who, in a way, experienced the struggle every ex Mormon must face as we choose our paths in life that ultimately clash with the Mormon hierarchy. I definitely had some tears listening to this. You guys are brilliant and do a great job with very interesting topics!
The one most influential person (among many) convincing me to lose my Mormon faith in 2000 was Quinn and his Mormon Heirarchy books. I was shocked when I found out Quinn remained a true believing Mormon even after he got excommunicated. Then I found out he was gay. I was disappointed, not because he was gay, but because I suspected that being gay would give Quinn's detractor's an excuse to claim he was excommunicated for immorality.
I highly recommend all of Quinn's books.
A complex man who gifted the world with his scholarship and wisdom.
Can’t stay to chat yet I wanted to comment and express my love and respect for Quinn’s research and writing. I’m truly a footnote lovin gal and read them in totality. Quinn gave us all of the footnotes combined with the receipts. Thanks panel for sharing his story. In my eyes he’s a trailblazing hero of truthful Mormon history and one of the earliest who were able to operate mostly on the inside. I can’t wait to read this new book.
Church security going after him…hmm… sounds a lot like Scientology.
Really loved Moshe's insights about his Dad.
I also thought the incident recounted about Mike Flinns encounter with Kimball revealed something about Kimball and his state of mind.
Kindle downloaded. Headed home to start reading. A wonderful episode about the true Father of Mormon History.
You’ll love it Rob!
Thank you, thank you, thank you D. Michael Quinn for the life you lived!!! You have positively affected mine and I admire your courage and intelligence.
I loved his presentations at Sunstone and have read many of his books. I bought his memoir on kindle a while ago but haven’t read it yet.
I missed the explosive revelations at the end.
I think it's that Quinn was gay and still found the church to be true .... I don't know ....
I loved Mike Quinn. He exuded goodness and kindness.
I don’t know a lot about the subject. Just curious. One thing I will say is thank you for caring about audio quality. I’ve tried to listen to some videos and it sounds like people are speaking in a canyon.
This has been fascinating
Ausvitch is in Poland not Germany.
Details details lol. You are correct
There is a chapter of Dr. Quinn's journey of writing from his own journals in the book "Writing Mormon History," Joe Geisner, Editor. Pub. Signature. 2020 (Just as Covid hit!)
Great interview. Thank you
Loving this episode. I identify with Michael in many ways, reconciling hidden homosexuality with a desire for the love of God; loving the church and its history.
I just ordered the Kindle version.
Im.sure the saviour greeted him with loving arms...the church could not do that to him..says a lot...❤
Great interviews. I'm going to get the book.
Great interview, but what were the explosive revelations?
Book is already unavailable and on backorder. I can't wait to get my hands on it!
I guess except for Kindle. Ok. Book stores in January. Just heard. Yay!!
Really sad that a religion forces you to deny your true self and deny yourself close relationships.
He was always a voice of reason and intelligence at all the Sunstone Symposiums over the years.
Is this the chat?
No. Please join us in the live chat! 😃
Can you tell me where the live chat is?
Very interesting / non Mormon here.
YOU TUBE CENSORS JEWS AND MORMONS
You quite clearly live in an echo chamber!! Please read the words of Gamaliel in Acts.
When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you signs and wonders to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. God Himself warns us about this in:
MATTHEW 24:23-24
"Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..."
Mormons teach and believe that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
So Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in?
A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan.
OR
B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
Mormonism isn't about the Bible or Jesus, it's a way of life. If they actually read the Bible, people would leave the "church". People who have left the "church" generally leave because they found out that they were lied to about things. Very few mormons leave the "church" because they finally read the Bible and discovered that they had been told lies. They don't leave mormonism to draw closer to God / Jesus. The majority that leave go into New Age and things along that line. It's almost never about a relationship with Jesus. Most that leave the corporation just stay mad about all the lies and then embrace everything and anything they've been taught to hate or not do. None of it is actually Biblical. They THINK it is, but it's not. Or they were taught about something and it was taught wrong.
Mormonism was invented by Freemasons to draw people away from Jesus Christ. That's the only purpose it ever had. And it did.
@moshequinn8541
First, it is not me who judges.
It is God who judges you when you reject his word.
JOHN 12:48
"He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day..."
Next, let me point out the following .
It was the Mormon church who attacked Christianity and all other religions when Joseph Smith said that "all the churches are wrong and an abomination before God..." (Joseph Smith--History 1:19).
For over 194 years the Mormon church has supported their racists doctrine that all blacks are cursed by God.
The God of the Bible would never curse an entire race of people, especially generations of innocent people born after the "ALLEGED CURSED" took place. God had NOTHING to do with this Mormon curse on all blacks. This is the racists attitude and doctrine of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and the Mormon church.
Let's go back in time to September 1857 to the MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE in which "Mormons" led by John D Lee murdered 120-140 innocent men, women, and CHILDREN of the Baker-Fancher wagon train. Later, before his death, John D Lee confessed that Brigham Young gave him the order to kill all those innocent people. And to add insult to the victims, the Mormon church names a university after Brigham Young (BYU).
Most recently the Mormon church has settled multiple multi-million dollar sexual assault lawsuits and paid a $5 million fine to the IRS/SEC for lying on tax returns and stealing tithe money from church members.
So please, don't stand there thinking you have some kind of "moral high ground" on me or anyone else who questions the truthfulness of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.
God gives us all the right to question anyone/church claiming to be of God.
I JOHN 4:1
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world..."
@@moshequinn8541 He's not trying to attack you. He's speaking truth. Is it loving to let someone stay in a burning building? The BOM is a complete lie and has been debunked by the very people who interviewed you. I just don't understand why they didn't speak up. Was that loving and kind? Nothing about this interview made sense. It was painful to watch, a lot of mixed messages. Don't trust the ones that are quick to tell you what you want to hear. People lie just to get along. Appreciate when someone takes the time to bring something to your attention, the truth can be very uncomfortable.
@moshequinn8541
First, it is not me who judges. It is God who judges you when you reject his word.
JOHN 12:48
"He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day..."
Next, let me point out the following.
It was the Mormon church who attacked Christianity and all other religions first when Joseph Smith said that "all the churches are wrong and an abomination before God..." ( Joseph Smith--History 1:19).
For over 194 years the Mormon church has supported their racists doctrine that all blacks are cursed by God. The God of the Bible would never curse an entire race of people, especially generations of innocent people born after the "ALLEGED CURSED" took place. God had NOTHING to do with this Mormon curse on all blacks. This is the racists attitude and doctrine of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and the Mormon church.
Let's go back in time to September 1857 to the MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE in which "Mormons" led by John D Lee murdered 120-140 innocent men, women, and CHILDREN of the Baker-Fancher wagon train. Later, before his death, John D Lee confessed that Brigham Young gave him the order to kill all those innocent people. And to add insult to the victims, the Mormon church names a university after Brigham Young (BYU). How insensitive and heartless of the Mormon church!
Most recently the Mormon church has settled multi-million dollar sexual assault lawsuits and paid a $5 million fine to the IRS/SEC for lying on tax returns and stealing tithe money from church members.
So please, don't stand there thinking you have some kind of "moral high ground" on me or anyone else who questions the truthfulness of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.
God gives us all the right to question anyone/church claiming to be of God.
I JOHN 4:1
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world..."
Please clarify what you are asking. This episode was not about the Book of Mormon (which we know is a 19th century fraud) but the Bible has just as many issues and Biblical scholarship has demonstrated that the Bible was not written by Moses or Matthew or Mark or John and is as much a manipulative set of canon as is the Book of Mormon. This episode wasn’t about finding truth in the Bible or the Book of Mormon…it was about a book (Chosen Path) about finding out the truth about yourself and how you come to accept yourself when it contradicts the teaching of the religion you love. D. Michael Quinn was an example to all of us as to how to Handel that situation with grace and style!