The Rise and Fall of Superhero Movies | By The Numbers
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- In this episode of By The Numbers, we fired up the Bat Signal to call on Daniel Parris of www.statsignificant.com to examine the past, present, and future of superhero films. We look back at the genre's origin story, dissect the boom of the 2010s, and wonder whether there's life after Endgame. Have we reached the end of superhero movies?
Research: Daniel Parris
Script: Daniel Parris & Spencer Gilbert
VO: Spencer Gilbert
Editor: Michał Arcimowicz
Assistant Editor: Kayla Fyfe
Producers: Semhar Debessai, Spencer Gilbert
Head of Production: Max Dionne
Post-Production Manager: Emin Bassavand
Content Manager: Mikolaj Kossakowski - Розваги
Avengers: Endgame literally was the endgame for the superhero genre.
And then James Gunn's Suicide Squad came out and was good.
@@keres666There's been a few gems over that time but they are indeed rare. You can no longer go to the cinema with every release and get a 7+/10 movie at least.
Shut up. No it wasn't
You say that like it’s an insult but that just would have been a very smart decision on Marvels part.
@@keres666and it ultimately didn’t change anything.
i think people forget that a good story has closure. Stories that go on forever without an end can make people exhausted.
Marvel movies are a succession of second acts without an end
I'm on board for the Ski School Universe.
A snowboard.
It's time to bring back the buddy-cop genre😅
Nooooooooooooooooooo
Apparently Beverley Hills Cop 4 is now a thing
well Bad Boys 4 is coming soon
that's not a buddy cop movie. It says right in the title that there's only one cop
I believe it's more a matter of quality. Because the marvel movies were always very different from each other. One moment you have Black Panther, about an African king, and then you have a Spider-Man movie and then a Thor movie set in space. That diversity made it never feel boring, but now it seems they lost their touch or simply don't know how to start again, and I believe that's what's killing it.
It's not just the settings either, though I think you're spot on about that all feeling samey nowadays, but the plots do this too. I was really hopeful for the Ms Marvel tv show, but then it devolved into yet another "stop this or end of the world" plot which just completely lost my interest. If every plot is save the world, maybe that (fictional) world isn't worth saving. Do better, writers, do better.
Mi bro realmente pretende que las películas de Marvel no fueron un copia y pega desde 2012 y UE su calidad era realmente mayor que ahora. No, a la gente no les gusta porque se canso de ellas, no porque sean malas.
Minus the Dark Knight Trilogy, DC has been struggling in film since the mid 90s. Schumacher's Batman, Steel, Superman Returns, and the entire DCEU have seen mixed to negative response.
The MCU's problem is that the infinity saga was character driven. We watched the world build from Tony Stark's escape from a cave to his sacrifice to save the entire universe. Without him, all MCU projects are just kind of hopping around within the universe and greater multiverse with no throughline; no singular threat is looming, no character seems to be connecting all the other heroes, no narrative dominoes seem to be falling toward a big event, and the new characters being introduced just seem to be there for the sake of world-building.
True about the MCU, though that's much more true to the comics. It's like they're throwing all of the characters against the wall to see what will stick.
DC superhero is good (at least above average) when the production team can do their own thing.
The biggest complain I heard from my friend (who is MCU fan) is they just destroy and kill all the character they love after endgame.
the stand alone films for Wonder Woman and Aquaman actually did quite well
Infinity War and End Game were the apex. The movie going audience must lower their expectations going forward when it comes to this genre.
Sure, for a lower ticket price, right?
I agree. After multiple superheros with overlapping stories fight a threat to the universe in 2 major films how does marvel continue? With a couple of heros teaming up to stop a madman from destroying one city,..ho hum.
People still want to see good superhero movies. The problem is that they don't make good ones anymore.
With Super Mario Doing Well We May See The Rise of The Videogame Genre. 🤔
Super Mario, sonic and detective Pikachu were good movies. I'm hoping this opens the door for SMASH BROS
Westerns and WW2 movies used to be huge…
I hope Westerns come back
WW2 movies still are. Really huge apparently. Probably fifty have come out in the last twenty
years. Another twenty or so in the twenty years before that. Russia, Germany, England, France,
China, and the U.S. have all made Second World War movies. Add to that all the WW1, Korean, Vietnam, and Gulf War films, and it becomes overwhelming. There are still at least twenty of
them, I haven't had time to watch yet.
I must dispute your thesis.
We ALL still want hoverboards. We just want them to work like in Back to the Future.
...Everything else here checks out. :-)
0:13 “her sword traps the souls of her enemies”
Uhhhh okay?
Awesome Analysis!
bring back good superhero movies and tv shows
It was bound to happen. We need something new.
Retitle this the Rise and Fall of Cowboy Westerns.
I think superhero movies now are in the same place that hair metal was in the 90’s: profoundly uncool and its flaws laid bare for all to see.
So what’s our Nirvana? Is it Dune? EEAAO? Barbenheimer? Top Gun 2? Avatar 2? RRR? Scorsese?
What was it for me is that the current marvel movies are just not watchable without watching all the before movies. Dr strange and the universe of madness made this more than clear to me and that I the point I simply stopped watching since I didn’t wanted to invest the many hours into being able to understand a movie. People just step away and watch something else.
I think the tipping point for a lot of people may be that you have to have watched (or at least know a lot about) entire seasons of Disney+ shows to fully understand some of the latest movies, and sometimes the thing they introduced was only a minor part of the plot (like Wandavision giving the backstory of one character in The Marvels, or the villain of Quantumania being a version of a character who appeared at the very end of Loki).
If there are a couple of previous movies you haven't seen, you can read the basic plot outlines pretty easily on Wikipedia to the point of at least knowing who the main character is and where they were when they were last shown. The earlier MCU movies also tended to be able to catch new viewers up on what they might have missed, e.g. the beginning of The Avengers gives each character a chance to show who they are, at least in broad strokes, even though they appeared in previous movies. (I watched The Avengers having previously only seen Iron Man 1.) A TV series or two (cf. Ms. Marvel and Wandavision for The Marvels), not so much.
It would be interesting to imagine how the MCU would look if it hadn't expanded into Disney+ shows, or if those shows had remained firmly secondary to the movies (like Agents of Shield or the Netflix shows).
Deadpool & Wolverine is gonna be a billion dollar movie 💯
Imho the problem is they won't stop making superhero movies for half decade like they used to in the 90s when the movies bombed. Both Marvel and DC have a wide catalog that has non-superhero fare. They should explore that and come back with new superhero movies when we start missing them.
Marvel could literally make a cowboy cinematic universe with all their Western characters and that could be a fun break
yeah that's...that's the problem. You really got to the heart of this. The big problem is that they ....won't stop...making...the kind of movies ....that ...made ...the most...money..the most ...recently. I think you got it. I think you nailed it. I don't know why Hollywood doesn't check in with you more often
X-Men ‘97 NOW!
Marvel & DC need to take this year break seriously & make sure that The MCU makes a strong comeback & The DCU has a fantastic start!
After infinity war they should've taken a real 5 year break. Perfect palette cleanser and would've had the perfect movie to come back to
Well idk about DC, but marvel is not releasing a lot next year. Only 1 movie, which is Deadpool 3
@@spencer4771 That's because of the writers and actors strikes and wasn't actual plan
(01:38) that chart is crazy!! What DC movie in 2008 did better than Iron Man???
The Dark Knight.
@@ZedsDeadZD ooooh, right :D
Marvel definitely peaked with endgame. It doesn't really feal like it's building to anything like before. We're already on phase 5 I still don't see where this is all going.
They're building to your 40th birthday.
Give me good stories, about superheroes or others, and I'll be there.
yes, that's all you want. you love story. YOU LOVE STORY
Ski School!!!
The reason for the decline in popularity of superhero movies is simple; cr@p movies. Both DC and Marvel's output of the last few years has been a hot mess (with the exception of "Spider-man: No Way Home"). No direction, no cohesion, messy plots, unremarkable leads, wokeness...the list goes on. It's not superhero fatigue, it's bad movie fatigue.
The real answer IS exploring genres within the superhero framework. We got tastes of that with Werewolf by Night and WandaVision, but Marvel and all superhero IPs need to explore different genres and take bigger risks.
thank you for putting "IS" in all caps to indicate the exact height of your expertise
I do have hope for DC's James Gunn era... if executive interference is kept to a minimum.
Although I am hopeful that James Gunn's new DC universe will be very good and will allow for the creative freedoms that characterised the brand and filled it with prestige, the general movie-going public is already focusing on other things beyond comic book adaptations, novel adaptations, series adaptations, etc. Eventually they will want films without sequels or prequels or spinoffs or established franchises and sagas.
Across the Spiderverse was good and made money, same for the third Guardians Of The Galaxy, even The Batman was great. What they have in common was that they were well written stories with compelling arcs compared to all the ones that flopped. So if the studios making those movies actually give us quality content instead of the utter complicated sh*te that was hard to follow unless we watched 3 different shows or movies to understand wtf was going on, people will spend their hard earned money to go see them, it's not that deep.
8 major superhero films came out this year and only 2 of them were profitable (Spiderverse and GOTG3). Yes I’m assuming Aquaman 2 will flop. This genre needs to find its soul again if it ever wants to regain audience trust
Totally. Genre. Soul. You got this. You know the terms. You're more than a consumer. You're ...a....okay you're literally just a consumer BUT you know the word genre and there's an app on your phone asking for your opinion and I think this is going to change the way everything does everything.
@@TubeHarmon40 okay…….
I don’t think people are tired of superhero properties. I just think we demand something more challenging. The success of The Boys, Invincible & My Hero Academia prove that.
Marvel, DC - TRY HARDER
i personally think its because at the start they where experimenting so we got some pretty unique stuff but now its all very by the numbers and formulaic so even different genres feel to similar. i also think it wasn't smart to force people to watch shows to keep up with the story thats why i stopped watching
Is the long fortold prophecy of the retuen om the ski comedy at hand?!!
Except across the spiderverse made a lot of money and was amazing.
Superhero fatigue. Im glad. I want to go back individual super hero movies. No more cinematic universes. Similar to bat man or joker
Yes. I support a Ski School cinematic universe. Give me the SSCU!!
The studios need to know when to take chips and go home. After endgame was perfect time to take 5 year break and start new with xmen involved....not churn out dog 💩 of the month shows on d plus.
HANDS UP FOR THE SKI SCHOOL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE
What If Spider-Man Web Of Memories Title Logo Movie Change This Title Film It Is Calling Spider-Man Crimes Of Kingpin.
But If Spider-Man New Home Called The Movies After 2023 Until 2025 It Is Calling Kraven's Last Hunt.
The answer is yes. We have been inadated with sequels, prequels and reboots. They get worse everytime.
2:29 Not a huge fan of how y’all talked about this graph. Saying “dc films gradually grow in quality from 2008 to 2019” doesn’t really match the pattern of the graph. What the graph seems to show for DC during that time are the critics score oscillating between highs and lows.
Marvel also basically reached their plateau in 2012 according to this graph, and it’s not super clear to me if they are lumping in Fox and Sony movies with the MCU films.
And what’s up with the DC datapoints in 2014 and 2015? No theatrical DC movies released between Man of Steel in 2013 and BvS in 2016. Are the direct to DVD animated movies being counted here? Are they including the Lego movie because it includes Batman?
Yeah, the DC trajectory is basically "Nolan movies were great and everything else was middling to bad."
By The Numbers: says Marvel “just can’t” be successful after Endgame.
By The Numbers: then immediately lists multiple things Disney stupidly did after Endgame.
Until you remember that Marvel comics is 85 years old.
...God, I hope we don't have to deal with the MCU for another 80 years.
Dentro de 80 años estará en apogeo otra gran galería de marcas, en los 2020s son los videojuegos/juguetes, en los 2010s fueron los superheroes y en los 2000s fue la fantasía. Kevin Feige debe estar triste porque realmente creía que su franquicia sería la más dominante hasta el 2099, ahora a nadie le importa Marvel o Los Vengadores en 2024, mucho menos los superheroes qué no sean Batman, Superman o Spider-man.
the problem is that everyone is a superhero.. e.g. the first iron man was cool, but, now everyone has iron man tech, except for the usa government
And when everyone's super...
Remember the " Vampire/Zombie" craze in media....some years ago?
That passed....
I'm pretty much done with super hero movies, at this point
There's No way they could surpass Spider Man No Way Home Or Into The Spider Verse!
*A proper video for a proper time*
It's like every other genre. Either you're the right demographic or you're not.
People just need to stop spreading hate just because it's not their thing.
A ballpoint banana 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Deadpool and Wolverine will make billions
Only superhero movie I care to watch nowadays is deadpool
Điều gì sẽ xảy ra nếu Spider-Man Web Of Memories Logo Tiêu đề Phim Thay đổi Tiêu đề Phim này Nó gọi Người Nhện là Tội ác của Kingpin.
Nhưng nếu Ngôi nhà mới của Người Nhện được gọi là các bộ phim sau năm 2023 cho đến năm 2025 thì đó là Cuộc săn lùng cuối cùng của Kraven.
The only movie im looking forward to is Deadpool
Infinity War was peak Marvel nerdfest. Nothing can top it alongside Endgame. They shot themselves in the foot by keeping it up instead of taking a break and developing it with new actors and variants of the heroes. I think if the superhero content took a break of 5-7 years without agenda pushing bs like The Marvels, She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel and others, it would've been better. It's sad that the only 2 good series are WandaVision and Loki 2.
Yes bring back the ski movies (SKi school, Ski patrol, hotdog) all of them!
Marvel and DC like to blame, "superhero fatigue," but in my opinion the genre is never the issue. A good story with good characters can do well regardless of genre. The Marvels didn't fail because people are tired of superheroes:; it failed because it had a crap story and crap characters.
Las películas de Marvel en 2023 no son muy diferentes a todo lo que lanzaron en su apogeo en 2012-2019, todos ustedes deben quitarse sus lentes de nostalgia y dejar de culpar a la calidad, las grietas SIEMPRE estuvieron ahí pero tampoco son malas películas, pero en 2023-2024 han quedado al descubierto porque la gente se canso de los superheroes, porque en el fondo el género es la misma película con cosas diferentes en la superficie. Es todo la historia, no es calidad, la calidad sigue siendo casi la misma, la gente ya no los valora igual porque ya no es 2016 y los superheroes pasaron de moda.
Disney loves calling their customers racists/misogynist and all those other names so we are done.
After multiverse of madness, I feel like my interest in marvel has gone way down. Maybe we need more permanent character deaths.
I thought no way home and the spider verse movies did pretty good box office?
No Way Home fue hace casi 3 años, Y Spider-man es Spider-man.
i'd say a reason is how with the MCU they already have a time line for the next 4-6 movies and they are all tied together.
a real reason so many older titles did so well is they weren't trying to tie into the next movie and the next and the next.
there is also a "shove them down your throat" mentaility in the current genre that has killed a number of franchises
Yeaaaaahhhhh. But movies like Shazam 2, Black Adam, Blue Beetle, The Flash, and I’m sure Aquaman 2 when it comes out, were just awful. That’s why their box offices flopped.
Classic case of quantity over quality.
Heck you didn't need an entire video to decipher the fall of superhero movies, just one sentence. Go WOKE, go broke!
Too much content killed it. The novelty of good cgi has ended and now its just like another movie released.
The newer Marvel movies & All of the DC movies cant compare to the writing, style & directing of the Russo Brothers & Ryan Coogler. That's why its a decline
It's time for Godzilla and the Kaiju genre
*Godzilla roar*
Too many quantity, especially for creations like movies.
I just got bored with the same old formula being used in every single superhero movie.
There were a few outliers, but it's mostly the same story arc re-hashed over and over and over.
I was sick of the movies before endgame.
I do however enjoy the shows a lot more.
Hold up. You think because of better critic scores, the quality of the movies went UP?
By the numbers, you interpret the numbers wrong.
Because no true fan wants to see that sh!t, there are no critical voices.
"Yeah, cool movie. 9/10"
Instead of
"They undersold the true purpose of the hero, never in his life would he/she have made this discision because of the trauma in his youth... VFX... Blablabla. 6/10"
it's cuz of M-SHE-U not superhero fatigue.
The Batman, Spiderman, SpiderVerse movies proves it.
Batman y Spider-man son anomalías y fueron, son y serán grandes y casi inmune a una fatiga. Y no es M-She-U ni la mala calidad, es que a la gente no le interesa ver las mismas películas que ha visto desde que Los Vengadores comenzaron el boom en 2012, esa es toda la historia.
More MCU in the vain of LOGAN!!
Race and gender swapping characters might have something to do with it. MsheU anyone.
The fall is because Marvel is putting out crap.
MCU got too nerdy for people. I think they should shift to primarily serial formats (TV/Streaming series) where is can be more like comic books and explore more contemplative topics over the course of several episodes. Just release an occasional Avengers movie.
The answer is write amazing scripts for the movie so that we can enjoy in the theater and STOP PANDERING to the minority of people who complain over on Twitter now X because there’s not representation or whatever the f$&@ else they’re crying about and maybe just maybe you will get us to watch your movies cuz all that has been out this year has been 💩💩💩
How nerdy is the audience for you actually but a regression plot in there 😂😂😂
I think that the last time I saw a superhero movie at the theater was the Christoper Nolan's Batman saga. From that point on I got sick of superheroes and all the gazillions of superhero movies that came after. I just can't understand how people can watch the same sh!t over and over without getting bored of the same plot and same structure... I didn't know that superhero movies were on fall now. I wonder what will come after that. We already passed the zombie craze, the vampire craze, suprhero craze... what comes now?
One universe is now insufficient to make it more attractive ? When will we have multi-multiverse ? You have to get to the ceiling sometimes. You can't get better than best.
the problem is the writing more than anything and a couple problematic actors **cough cough jonathan & ezra**
It's not a matter of the audience's taste changing over time, it's a matter of marvel becoming worse than DC has ever been.
Seriously, I'd rather watch the green lantern movie with Ryan Reynolds 5 times than Thor 4 just one more time or a single episode of she hulk.
The main problem is that the movies like The Marvels were absolute crap.
Good, but you can also say they are still making enough profit, because even before black Panther and Endgame these movies were the most profitable movies. And so still are. Which means the other genres and other superhero movies need to step up too, even more. Marvel/disney still is the powerhouse in cinema. In my eyes it is because they still just entertain. The basic and number one value of a movie. And I mean with the big public, and with kids. The 2 movies of their peak, BP and Endgame were just overhyped (in a good way because also were great movies). It is just the elitist viewer being too critical. And Anti-Disney folks, but without Disney no more big blockbuster superhero movies, same with Star Wars. Those 2 universes would possibly not even exist anymore.
It's not the superhero genre that people are tired of, it's the quality of the content with the constant preachy tone and endless virtue signaling. It doesn't take a genius to see a connection to the fact that the more woke the movies got the less money they made. What do they call that again? Get woke… something, something.
Sad to see the state of Screen Junkies. Went from energetic fun ideas to soulless corporate produced videos. You guys chose to go super woke and alienate most of your audience and crumbled into a dust pile. Who would have thought, selling out and going super corporate and woke would ruin your careers? Just try being real people making real honest videos. Be people sharing real human opinions. Get rid of that creep who bought fandom who shoved himself into every video after the buyout and i think you guys could survive, but you have to ditch all the insane bureaucratic nonsense behind the scenes. You had an original idea with movie fights, be creative again.
Of course they can recover! Just stop making CRAP! Spend more money on good writers and proven directors, along with awesome stunt teams, than on terrible CGI. At least the MCU could probably pull it off, DCEU never had any truly great flicks. Even Wonder Woman 1 was pretty derivative, if a fun time!
Superhero movie fatigue. Terrible writers. Bad directors. Unlikable actors. Unwanted agenda pushing. Disney. These are why no one cares anymore.
Also wokeness killed these franchises
Too much tongue paste and mouth spit, narrator.
That's all you have on this subject?
What a waste of my time.
It lasted way too long. Good riddance.
You forgot that they went woke and we went away.
No just "woke" movies. Super hero moves can be fixed by just going back to the source material from at least 10 years ago before all the garbage invaded and remembering who the actually fans are.
Naw its because they are making everything woke.
Too afraid to point out the wokeness, huh?
Unequivocally not. To say so is alarmist, hyperbolic nonsense
Nowadays, the great ones (No Way Home, GOTG 3) are few and far between. MCU's problem is quantity over quality.