I propose that the Andals came to Westeros twice, once for religious reasons, thousands of years ago, and another wave to flee the Valyrian Freehold more recently. These two stories got mixed up, hence the confusion.
Doesn't it make even more sense that the Long Night was precipitated by the Andal invasion, the alliance with the Starks, and the Starks and Andals killing the Weirwoods, Children, and Skinchangers? From there swathes of First Men and Children would flee North, bring the Others into being (they need men to reproduce, it seems), and start the Long Night to beat back the invasion. And thereafter the Last Hero, a Stark, ended the war by seeking out the Children in order to form a pact of peace, promising to establish Weirwoods in the South, revere the Old Gods, and clearly delineate the boundaries of their territory by building the wall through cooperation with the Children and Others, all while continuing the tradition of sacrifice to keep the pact upheld.
That’s kind of the show’s take on it. The Others were created as a weapon against the First Men, but the Children lost control of the White Walkers, so the Children and the First Men had to ally to drive them out.
@@OceanHedgehogrighteous reason. its a long-time, centuries old (and real life) war strategy for uniting opposing/divided forces together toward a common goal. the reasons were various, but it almost always works when the impact of doing/not doing so was sufficiently significant
@@williamhermann6635 Notice that I said the Starks fought the Children before the Long Night, then made peace with them afterwards and took up Old God worship.
It just doesn't make sense for Theon Stark to attack the andals in Essos if they were already in Westeros. This is some pretty concrete evidence of the Long Night happening before the Andal invasion, since the Stark kings only began after or during the Long Night. We should also remember that this was a global event, not contained to Westeros, so the andals could have fought the Others without having migranted.
Its not necessarily a Global event. From what I understand of the lore, the Valyrians and Rhoynar don't have stories of the long night and the Last Hero, but further East similar stories pop up again. It seems that the planet has "Hot" areas filled with "hot" magic like Valyria, and then has "cold" areas filled with cold magic like the lands of always winter. I even think there used to be a place in Valyria called the lands of always summer.
The Others weren't in Essos, they came from the Land of Always Winter that only Westeros is connected to. You only find an accurate and detailed description of the Others in the tales from the North. The long winter did affected the whole planet but the Others were only in Westeros.
@@Oximb i think the others did have routes to esos, there was stories of others from ashai and a possible connection up north eith thepolar ice from westeros and esos like in real life.
@@jerichopagtama6771 Martin said that that Essos and Westeros aren't connected through the Land of Always Winter. Only Westeros is connected to the Land of Always Winter in which the Others are from and that's why you only find an accurate and detailed description of the Others in the legends of the North. You don't find such descriptions in the legends of Essos because the Others weren't there. The legends of the guy fighting the "darkness" with a burning sword are based of a vision that people had in Asshai, a vision of the Last Hero fighting the Others with his dragsonteel sword.
@@Oximb not really the empire of the dawn is just "too far away" fo accurate literature to get to westeros. There are fortifications like the wall in the north above the ashai ghost grass lands and even evidence of a subspecies of children of the forest in esos. And the same blood and fire magic practiced by the valeryans is used there too.
Bronze is stronger than iron. If iron was a deciding factor, then it would have to be coupled with a type of technology more advanced than had been on the continent prior. I think the deciding factor was simply their organization and armor. The Andals brought knighthood and feudalism to Westoros. Which suggests better organization and training.
I agree with you future_teknokrat just look at our ancient history with the Romans conquering modern day France or what it was called back then Gaul the Romans where out numbered for most of the conquest for example one battle it was around 40'000 Romans fighting around 100'000-150'000 Gaul barbarians and the Romans where fighting on two fronts and they still won because of superior armour and tactics and training
Yes! Every time you make a video it gets better. Also, Ned Stark building a sept to accommodate his Tully wife might therefore be a parallel that highlights the willingness of the Starks to make changes to their culture in order to facilitate alliances with the andals.
This makes sense with the story that Bran the builder is a descendenf of Brandon of the bloody sword. A decendend of Garth Green Hand that allegelly killed a lot of childrends of the forest. And in the show the childrens used an Andal to create the knight king
Not beyond reason that the first men had a small amount of iron weapons. I refer you to our own world. Some cultures in the bronze age had limited amounts of meteoric iron that had been worked into weapons. Egypt is the best example.
Iron being inherently better than bronze is a misconception. the main advantage of iron is that, if you have the technology to forge it, it is easier to work with and far more abundant than bronze, since bronze requires tin which is more rare (there were about 3 or so places where it was mined dring the bronze age, if I recall correctly)
But it IS better in its final form too, being harder, stronger, staying sharp longer and, being easier to care for. Yes it needs a hotter fire to forge, but, as you say, doesn't need an alloy mix of metals.
@Auhuhhuu I didn't say we stopped using bronze. I actually worked in a bronze foundry in Arizona. I think it's infinitely more beautiful(that patina, amirite?), easier to hammer without heat and serves functions that iron doesn't.
@@Neenerella333the fact that it is soft enough to forge without heat is what makes it worse, every time it impacts something it's going to reshape the blade, a few hits on and armoured target and you're left with a training sword. Where as iron is more likely to break and is harder to work with, the metal itself is a lot harder so it takes more to dull it.
In reply to one of your opinions on the pinned comment. The ironborn one to be specific. While we don't know what the iron born called themselves in the Old Tongue (if they even spoke the Old Tongue then), their own epic from even before the Age of Heroes, which I agree with you most probably accrued during the Andal Invasion, depict the Gray King (fabled primogenitor of all the Ironborn houses and people except House Goodbrother) as having an iron sword. That couldn't have happened after the Andal Invasion of Westeros, as even you explain in your other video that the Andals came much later to the Iron Islands than the rest of Westeros and the Ironborn were already there and using iron. Therefore there are two conclusions: 1. If the Ironborn were First Men, then at least part of the First Men knew how to work iron before the Andals arrived. 2. If the Ironborn weren't First Men, then there were people with which could trade (not likely as Ironmen are not really predisposed to trading) or with which to acquire bounty after warring with even if the First Men themselves didn't know how to work it. While most First Men would fight with bronze as they could actually work the metal that doesn't exclude some particulars, specially kings, from having other types of swords from the vast majority.
If the Starks are known to slaughter both the "Children of the Forest" & Also, "Skinchangers", then why do they have a such an affinity seemingly towards the Weirwood Tree that is center point at a known place of meeting in Winterfell , and then, after Bran The Broken has let it be known he is basically a talented "Wharg King", "Skinchanger" & "The Three Eyed Raven"; Why would Bran now just not be exiled to the North? Also, why does it seem that all the Stark Children have a psychic connection to their Dire Wolves, even John Snow who seems to have the strongest connection besides Bran, who isn't even a Stark by blood - But has both Dragon Blood & would seem he would either have no ability or a severely limited ability based on his mixed blood? There is the argument that's its the prophecy as the chosen / Azor Ahai? & the Prince that is Peomised? Sure, okay... but that still doesn't explain then why the other Stark children seem to all share a psychic link to their Dire Wolves - and still again, all don't seem to off-put by their Weirwood ? Is this because of their mother's influence of the Seven? And s merged reverence for both the Old God's & the New? It's confusing, after seeing this known History and what seems to be the strongest in House Stark but also the North all seem very distinctly unified and aligned in their position and calling as the protectors of the North, yet seem to contridict this by having Whargs and Weirwoods around that would seem to be very inverted ideology and acceptable allowances to meddle with their enemies cultural doings etc ??
Noticed something interesting might be a coincidence but maybe not .The King of Winter crown has 9 spikes as does the Night kings Alter, another Good video.
I think that criminals and night's watch desserters were running away from law during some hot and long summers right after some short and muddy winters and hot and rainy springs. When snowy Siberian winters are swapped for winters that are more like British ones (mud and rain). And springs are hot and rainy. Then during hot summer's, even lands north of the wall will look fresh, green, full of vegetation, flowers etc. So during those years, probably after defeating white walkers (at their weakest) and right after creating nights watch, there were much more desersters in NW, and criminals could also try to escape justice by going around the well. I thinks that this are people who modern wildlings descend from. From pretty early time of the wall. But late and hot enough to make snow and Ice in land around it would melt (of course well itself is just to big to completely melt, it may have just shrunken a bit.
"THE" Andals aren't a single monolith. There were many separate warring kingdoms of Andals that fought amongst each other so the starks could have allied to some of them and still be at war with others
Is it possible the Stark's "owed" a certain "Prince that was promised" because of the "pact" withCotF and the Others? Perhaps the Stark's thought if they turned on TCotF that "promise" would be null and void??
Some more questions and concerns: How are we so sure First Men went beyond the Wall and weren't just already there? The Others came from the north and killed or pushed back everyone in their path. So, it is unlikely some First Men were just there after the Others' defeat. Men chose to be beyond where the Wall would be. They rejected the realms of men. -Why would the forests of the children be considered realms? My point is that the lands of the children are not acknowledged by the Night's Watch. Either way, in Essos, the children are called Ifequevron, and guess what? Their forests are called the Kingdoms of the Ifequevron. -The Starks probably got their skinchanging abilities by taking the daughters of the Warg King, so how could they hate skinchangers? How do you know the Starks knew that would happen? It would be great poetic irony if the Starks did not know: the blood of the Starks would be forever tainted with that which they hated. -The ironborn and the Iron Islands proves the First Men fought with iron before the Andals. Not at all. If you want to simply use names as evidence, then let's bring in the fact that "iron" is in the Common Tongue, and the First Men only spoke the Old Tongue. So unless there's evidence that the ironborn called themselves whatever the word for "iron" is in the Old Tongue, this isn't really proof.
More things addressed: the old Kings of Winter, not just lords, did have iron weapons: "The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps..." - Jon IV, AGoT "They'd only had one candle between them, and Bran's eyes had gotten as big as saucers as he stared at the stone faces of the Kings of Winter, with their wolves at their feet and their iron swords across their laps. Robb took them all the way down to the end" AGoT, Arya IV "The oldest had long ago rusted away to nothing, leaving only a few red stains where the metal had rested on stone." -Eddard I, AGoT They could just be ceremonial, but the I argue that they were not: because the Starks seemingly and inexplicably dominated the North following the Long Night... the best explanation being they had knowledge of ironworking... which was only brought after the Andals came.
@@ASoIaFTheorist I already noticed how in all of the text samples you provide, the weapons are specifically called “iron swords” and never simply “swords”! If this can be applied for all the books, it would be a detail GRRM would not have put in without reason.
meh ... "the show has confirmed" is the same as saying "the Lehman said the master is wrong", the show took tons of liberties and changed a lot of things that had a huge impact further on
Really good video and made interesting points but you repeated yourself way too much, turning a 10 minute video into a 15 minute one. Just some constructive criticism, keep up the good work, just got yourself another subscriber. :)
The repetition is deliberate, especially the iron/Andal First Men/bronze part, drilling it in people's heads so there should be no more arguments. But thanks :)
made it to 5:30 before brain decided to say STOP! Why all I'm hearing is bronze and iron and iron and bronze repeated in a monotone voice over and over. proceeds too ragequit.
ps sir didn't the Starks fought the Warg King and took his daughters as bride prizes during the Dawn Age?. I think in your videos that you recognize that First Men did battle with Children for 2000 years. So why the Hungry Wolf go sailing across the sea and kill the Andals in their home country?.
The books seem to imply that the Starks fought the Warg King and the children after the Long Night, during the Age of Heroes, since the Starks only came into the annals of history after the Long Night. I also think the Hungry Wolf was a Stark king way later, not one of the first. The very first kings are the ones I think were allied with the Andals.
ok that makes sense, but remember the people of north block the border at Moat Cain to keep the Andals away from the North. Old Gods faith is more followers in North.
@@sophiawilson8696 Yes, I think, if the Andals Invasion started before the Long Night, the northmen would have stopped the Andals at Moat Cailin, but after the Long Night they became allied... for a time, at least.
Ok you just blew my mind!!!! I NEVER considered this!!!! I have read the books 5 times!!!! I am reading them again! Thank you. These books don’t get old!! I watch a UA-cam video that blows my mind and have to read the books again with that theory in my head! Keep up the good work! I can’t wait for more videos!!!! ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
Iron is not better than bronze. They’re just as strong as one another, the reason why iron replaced bronze is because iron ore is common while copper and tin is less common and are never mined in the same place.
I would like to read or watch a series about the history of the children of the forest and the war with men including the history of the night king and walkers. If done correctly it could fill in the gaps. I could just be weird but, This would be very interesting for me
I watch so many of these types of videos from different creators, that the present tv show was kinda unnecessary. Castle court politics again. But your idea, Jennifer, is way more intriguing to me. If they need a simultaneous Essos story in the same show, that could be cool too.
@@Neenerella333 I’d rather a spin-off show in a land like Essos. The ultimate story of the 7 kingdoms has been told already and we just got a prequel to it too.
Some first men still fear skin changers ,, there the one account of them sending that boy " to live with his own kind " ( skin changers ) , later growing into a terrible person who steal others warg beasts,which is against warg culture , , and later theorized that melisandra used charmed magic to warg the king beyond the wall into rattle bones to save his life , except rattle bones was plot twist, actually that original said warg , who warged into rattle bones himself , which is also a sin , n then ultimately got burned to death by stannis
I know this is an old video But since the Long Night was stated to be an event lasting generations, I wouldn't doubt that one of the Andal Incursions happened during it Maybe not the bulk of it but enough for cultural exchange to happen
So there was Brandon Stark and the Last Hero also a Stark (maybe snow) that went ranger beyond the wall.. History is repeating itself. The Stark are the union of the Andals and First men, perhaps that's why Ricard Stark insisted in a Tully/Stark marriege, and Baratheon/Stark. But at the same time, We have the Starks being wargs once more, all of them, Bran, Rickon, Arya, Jon, Robb all wargs. Sansa may be to but she doesn't have an animal. Very intresting
Might be that the Swords arrived before the Andals did, with warriors and merchants crossing the Narrow sea in the years before the Andals crossed, or like how Valyrian Steel reached Westeros before the Targaryens did.
What about the starks being the night king theory, with the tomb , all having iron swords on them ( except 1 ) and old nans story about Iron keeping the dead asleep or something loosely like that
I don't think the Others acted alone I think some of the more sinister factions of Wildlings fought in their side. With Craster we've seen they are willing to work with humans in exchange for worship and sacrifice and history shows every regime no matter how vile and destructive they are have their admirers and apologists.
"Andal culture permeated the North" ?? What basis do you have for making this claim? I'm pretty sure there is no reason to think Andals had much influence upon the north's culture.
I have the books as basis. One: the First Men of the North mingled with the Andals: "The men of the North are descendants of the First Men, their blood only slowly mingling with that of the Andals who overwhelmed the kingdoms to the south. Two. The literal next sentence afterwards states that the original culture of the First Men then faded away south of the Wall, but not north of it: The original language of the First Men-known as the Old Tongue-has come to be spoken only by the wildlings beyond the Wall, and many other aspects of their culture have faded away (such as the grislier aspects of their worship, when criminals and traitors were killed and their bodies and entrails hung from the branches of weirwoods.) There the books are literally stating "many other aspects of their culture have faded away". When a culture fades, another takes its place. The books giving us the only answer: the Andals, especially in this passage: "Even their house names mark them out, for the First Men bore names that were short and blunt and to the point; names like Stark, Wull, Umber, and Stout all stem from the days when the Andals had no influence on the North." "... WHEN THE ANDALS HAD NO INFLUENCE ON THE NORTH. - The North, TWoIaF Also, how are you going to explain the fact of septries being in the North? You, know the septries that worship the Faith of the Seven? So what quotes and text do you have against my claim?
@@ASoIaFTheorist i don't think the KoW were even first men. The stark family gets its first men blood thru the maternal line. The daughters of the warg king the KoW took for themselves
Starks ! FEH! Kneelers all of them. They knelt before the Andals to get Iron, they knelt before the Faith of the Seven, they knelt before the Grey Rats, they knelt before the Targaryen, and they even knelt be fore a Baratheon. The kings in the north? More like those kneelers up north.
This may be a gap in George's knowledge, but iron in itself wouldn't have been much of an advantage if any over work-hardened bronze. Iron only comes into its own when you know how to make it into steel.
Long Night might have come after Andal invasion. This is because the names like Stark, Gardener, Flint, etc etc sound like Common Tongue names and not Old Tongue names. We all know that most of the ancient houses of Westeros descended from Garth Greenhand or the First King of the First Men whose sons and grandsons founded all the houses. Else, why would the First Men translate their family names into Common Tongue and discard their Old Tongue counterparts? GRRM deliberately made the lore murky and inconsistent so that the universe seems naturalish to us when we read it.
if the andels brought iron, how did the Ironborn get their name pre andel invasion? I don't believe the andels brought iron to the continent, they had refined steel and brought that knowledge. Also for a weapon bronze is better to some extent than raw iron. But nothing compares to steel weapons
for a last hero/night king being a stark , that dude tied to the weirwood tree sure was blonde...blond like an andal XD ...maybe he had his mom's hair ;) ...cuz stark andal alliance and the seed is strong both on joefrey and jon. the tree and the acorn bla bla.
Beside# trying to sound dramatic from your bedroom in your mother’s basement, you also keep repeating the same five or six images, basically making this a podcast with a slide show. UA-cam algorithm, please never recommend this channel to me again!
They should make a series of the beginning of everything. I have had enough of petty queens and their bastards! Make a series about how the Long Night happened to when Aegon decided to conquer the six kingdoms.
I propose that the Andals came to Westeros twice, once for religious reasons, thousands of years ago, and another wave to flee the Valyrian Freehold more recently. These two stories got mixed up, hence the confusion.
Andal invasion was a Hightower plot. Notice Hightowers were the only ones to welcome them and not put up a fight.
Doesn't it make even more sense that the Long Night was precipitated by the Andal invasion, the alliance with the Starks, and the Starks and Andals killing the Weirwoods, Children, and Skinchangers? From there swathes of First Men and Children would flee North, bring the Others into being (they need men to reproduce, it seems), and start the Long Night to beat back the invasion. And thereafter the Last Hero, a Stark, ended the war by seeking out the Children in order to form a pact of peace, promising to establish Weirwoods in the South, revere the Old Gods, and clearly delineate the boundaries of their territory by building the wall through cooperation with the Children and Others, all while continuing the tradition of sacrifice to keep the pact upheld.
Damn that's good
That’s kind of the show’s take on it. The Others were created as a weapon against the First Men, but the Children lost control of the White Walkers, so the Children and the First Men had to ally to drive them out.
@@OceanHedgehogrighteous reason.
its a long-time, centuries old (and real life) war strategy for uniting opposing/divided forces together toward a common goal.
the reasons were various, but it almost always works when the impact of doing/not doing so was sufficiently significant
If the Starks were chopping down weirwoods, dont you think they wouldve started with the one inside their own castle walls?
@@williamhermann6635 Notice that I said the Starks fought the Children before the Long Night, then made peace with them afterwards and took up Old God worship.
It just doesn't make sense for Theon Stark to attack the andals in Essos if they were already in Westeros. This is some pretty concrete evidence of the Long Night happening before the Andal invasion, since the Stark kings only began after or during the Long Night. We should also remember that this was a global event, not contained to Westeros, so the andals could have fought the Others without having migranted.
Its not necessarily a Global event. From what I understand of the lore, the Valyrians and Rhoynar don't have stories of the long night and the Last Hero, but further East similar stories pop up again. It seems that the planet has "Hot" areas filled with "hot" magic like Valyria, and then has "cold" areas filled with cold magic like the lands of always winter. I even think there used to be a place in Valyria called the lands of always summer.
The Others weren't in Essos, they came from the Land of Always Winter that only Westeros is connected to. You only find an accurate and detailed description of the Others in the tales from the North. The long winter did affected the whole planet but the Others were only in Westeros.
@@Oximb i think the others did have routes to esos, there was stories of others from ashai and a possible connection up north eith thepolar ice from westeros and esos like in real life.
@@jerichopagtama6771 Martin said that that Essos and Westeros aren't connected through the Land of Always Winter.
Only Westeros is connected to the Land of Always Winter in which the Others are from and that's why you only find an accurate and detailed description of the Others in the legends of the North.
You don't find such descriptions in the legends of Essos because the Others weren't there. The legends of the guy fighting the "darkness" with a burning sword are based of a vision that people had in Asshai, a vision of the Last Hero fighting the Others with his dragsonteel sword.
@@Oximb not really the empire of the dawn is just "too far away" fo accurate literature to get to westeros. There are fortifications like the wall in the north above the ashai ghost grass lands and even evidence of a subspecies of children of the forest in esos. And the same blood and fire magic practiced by the valeryans is used there too.
Bronze is stronger than iron. If iron was a deciding factor, then it would have to be coupled with a type of technology more advanced than had been on the continent prior. I think the deciding factor was simply their organization and armor. The Andals brought knighthood and feudalism to Westoros. Which suggests better organization and training.
I agree with you future_teknokrat just look at our ancient history with the Romans conquering modern day France or what it was called back then Gaul the Romans where out numbered for most of the conquest for example one battle it was around 40'000 Romans fighting around 100'000-150'000 Gaul barbarians and the Romans where fighting on two fronts and they still won because of superior armour and tactics and training
Another point towards the Starks forming alliances -- a stark kneeled to Aegon without any fighting
Yes! Every time you make a video it gets better.
Also, Ned Stark building a sept to accommodate his Tully wife might therefore be a parallel that highlights the willingness of the Starks to make changes to their culture in order to facilitate alliances with the andals.
“You know nothing, Jon Snow” suddenly sounds a lot more meaningful
I know who are the Northern Andals in the Iron part of the Crown.
The Manderlys.
This makes sense with the story that Bran the builder is a descendenf of Brandon of the bloody sword. A decendend of Garth Green Hand that allegelly killed a lot of childrends of the forest.
And in the show the childrens used an Andal to create the knight king
Its not confirmed that the COTF used an andal to create the Night King in the show. All we know is the guy looks like a Stark.
If you look closely, the First Man was screaming "No" in Common Tongue when Leaf was proceeding to turn him into an Other
Not beyond reason that the first men had a small amount of iron weapons.
I refer you to our own world. Some cultures in the bronze age had limited amounts of meteoric iron that had been worked into weapons. Egypt is the best example.
Iron being inherently better than bronze is a misconception. the main advantage of iron is that, if you have the technology to forge it, it is easier to work with and far more abundant than bronze, since bronze requires tin which is more rare (there were about 3 or so places where it was mined dring the bronze age, if I recall correctly)
But it IS better in its final form too, being harder, stronger, staying sharp longer and, being easier to care for. Yes it needs a hotter fire to forge, but, as you say, doesn't need an alloy mix of metals.
Other advantage is that forging is a faster process and gives it more hardness, while bronze can only be cast
@Auhuhhuu I didn't say we stopped using bronze. I actually worked in a bronze foundry in Arizona. I think it's infinitely more beautiful(that patina, amirite?), easier to hammer without heat and serves functions that iron doesn't.
@@Neenerella333the fact that it is soft enough to forge without heat is what makes it worse, every time it impacts something it's going to reshape the blade, a few hits on and armoured target and you're left with a training sword. Where as iron is more likely to break and is harder to work with, the metal itself is a lot harder so it takes more to dull it.
@@user-ep8ns6hg4qI think we're saying the same thing.
In reply to one of your opinions on the pinned comment.
The ironborn one to be specific. While we don't know what the iron born called themselves in the Old Tongue (if they even spoke the Old Tongue then), their own epic from even before the Age of Heroes, which I agree with you most probably accrued during the Andal Invasion, depict the Gray King (fabled primogenitor of all the Ironborn houses and people except House Goodbrother) as having an iron sword.
That couldn't have happened after the Andal Invasion of Westeros, as even you explain in your other video that the Andals came much later to the Iron Islands than the rest of Westeros and the Ironborn were already there and using iron.
Therefore there are two conclusions:
1. If the Ironborn were First Men, then at least part of the First Men knew how to work iron before the Andals arrived.
2. If the Ironborn weren't First Men, then there were people with which could trade (not likely as Ironmen are not really predisposed to trading) or with which to acquire bounty after warring with even if the First Men themselves didn't know how to work it.
While most First Men would fight with bronze as they could actually work the metal that doesn't exclude some particulars, specially kings, from having other types of swords from the vast majority.
If the Starks are known to slaughter both the "Children of the Forest" & Also, "Skinchangers", then why do they have a such an affinity seemingly towards the Weirwood Tree that is center point at a known place of meeting in Winterfell , and then, after Bran The Broken has let it be known he is basically a talented "Wharg King", "Skinchanger" & "The Three Eyed Raven"; Why would Bran now just not be exiled to the North? Also, why does it seem that all the Stark Children have a psychic connection to their Dire Wolves, even John Snow who seems to have the strongest connection besides Bran, who isn't even a Stark by blood - But has both Dragon Blood & would seem he would either have no ability or a severely limited ability based on his mixed blood?
There is the argument that's its the prophecy as the chosen / Azor Ahai? & the Prince that is Peomised? Sure, okay... but that still doesn't explain then why the other Stark children seem to all share a psychic link to their Dire Wolves - and still again, all don't seem to off-put by their Weirwood ? Is this because of their mother's influence of the Seven? And s merged reverence for both the Old God's & the New?
It's confusing, after seeing this known History and what seems to be the strongest in House Stark but also the North all seem very distinctly unified and aligned in their position and calling as the protectors of the North, yet seem to contridict this by having Whargs and Weirwoods around that would seem to be very inverted ideology and acceptable allowances to meddle with their enemies cultural doings etc ??
Noticed something interesting might be a coincidence but maybe not .The King of Winter crown has 9 spikes as does the Night kings Alter, another Good video.
Nice, didn't catch that myself. There definitely should be some significance to the spikes on the crown.
Well, when a mommy Wildling and a daddy Wildling love each other very much…
Dude I’ve been binging your videos and every single one is soooooo well made! You’re channel is underrated af! Keep up the great work!
I think that criminals and night's watch desserters were running away from law during some hot and long summers right after some short and muddy winters and hot and rainy springs. When snowy Siberian winters are swapped for winters that are more like British ones (mud and rain). And springs are hot and rainy. Then during hot summer's, even lands north of the wall will look fresh, green, full of vegetation, flowers etc. So during those years, probably after defeating white walkers (at their weakest) and right after creating nights watch, there were much more desersters in NW, and criminals could also try to escape justice by going around the well. I thinks that this are people who modern wildlings descend from. From pretty early time of the wall. But late and hot enough to make snow and Ice in land around it would melt (of course well itself is just to big to completely melt, it may have just shrunken a bit.
"THE" Andals aren't a single monolith. There were many separate warring kingdoms of Andals that fought amongst each other so the starks could have allied to some of them and still be at war with others
Is it possible the Stark's "owed" a certain "Prince that was promised" because of the "pact" withCotF and the Others? Perhaps the Stark's thought if they turned on TCotF that "promise" would be null and void??
Some more questions and concerns:
How are we so sure First Men went beyond the Wall and weren't just already there?
The Others came from the north and killed or pushed back everyone in their path. So, it is unlikely some First Men were just there after the Others' defeat. Men chose to be beyond where the Wall would be. They rejected the realms of men.
-Why would the forests of the children be considered realms?
My point is that the lands of the children are not acknowledged by the Night's Watch. Either way, in Essos, the children are called Ifequevron, and guess what? Their forests are called the Kingdoms of the Ifequevron.
-The Starks probably got their skinchanging abilities by taking the daughters of the Warg King, so how could they hate skinchangers?
How do you know the Starks knew that would happen? It would be great poetic irony if the Starks did not know: the blood of the Starks would be forever tainted with that which they hated.
-The ironborn and the Iron Islands proves the First Men fought with iron before the Andals.
Not at all. If you want to simply use names as evidence, then let's bring in the fact that "iron" is in the Common Tongue, and the First Men only spoke the Old Tongue. So unless there's evidence that the ironborn called themselves whatever the word for "iron" is in the Old Tongue, this isn't really proof.
More things addressed: the old Kings of Winter, not just lords, did have iron weapons: "The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps..." - Jon IV, AGoT
"They'd only had one candle between them, and Bran's eyes had gotten as big as saucers as he stared at the stone faces of the Kings of Winter, with their wolves at their feet and their iron swords across their laps. Robb took them all the way down to the end" AGoT, Arya IV
"The oldest had long ago rusted away to nothing, leaving only a few red stains where the metal had rested on stone." -Eddard I, AGoT
They could just be ceremonial, but the I argue that they were not: because the Starks seemingly and inexplicably dominated the North following the Long Night... the best explanation being they had knowledge of ironworking... which was only brought after the Andals came.
@@ASoIaFTheorist I already noticed how in all of the text samples you provide, the weapons are specifically called “iron swords” and never simply “swords”! If this can be applied for all the books, it would be a detail GRRM would not have put in without reason.
meh ... "the show has confirmed" is the same as saying "the Lehman said the master is wrong", the show took tons of liberties and changed a lot of things that had a huge impact further on
2:36...The Iron Islands, the Ironborn?... the First men had iron, but lacked the means to make it or steel to an amount that exceeded ceremonial use
Ultimately the perfectly pressed shirts won out. Thank God for iron....
Boyyyy you’re making sooooo many logical leaps in the video 😂😂😂
Really good video and made interesting points but you repeated yourself way too much, turning a 10 minute video into a 15 minute one. Just some constructive criticism, keep up the good work, just got yourself another subscriber. :)
The repetition is deliberate, especially the iron/Andal First Men/bronze part, drilling it in people's heads so there should be no more arguments. But thanks :)
made it to 5:30 before brain decided to say STOP! Why all I'm hearing is bronze and iron and iron and bronze repeated in a monotone voice over and over. proceeds too ragequit.
The Warg King is most probably the Three Eyed Raven of the time.
ps sir didn't the Starks fought the Warg King and took his daughters as bride prizes during the Dawn Age?. I think in your videos that you recognize that First Men did battle with Children for 2000 years. So why the Hungry Wolf go sailing across the sea and kill the Andals in their home country?.
The books seem to imply that the Starks fought the Warg King and the children after the Long Night, during the Age of Heroes, since the Starks only came into the annals of history after the Long Night. I also think the Hungry Wolf was a Stark king way later, not one of the first. The very first kings are the ones I think were allied with the Andals.
ok that makes sense, but remember the people of north block the border at Moat Cain to keep the Andals away from the North. Old Gods faith is more followers in North.
@@sophiawilson8696 Yes, I think, if the Andals Invasion started before the Long Night, the northmen would have stopped the Andals at Moat Cailin, but after the Long Night they became allied... for a time, at least.
tooth&talon < iron < fire
Take a sip every time he says bronze and iron
Ok you just blew my mind!!!! I NEVER considered this!!!! I have read the books 5 times!!!! I am reading them again! Thank you. These books don’t get old!! I watch a UA-cam video that blows my mind and have to read the books again with that theory in my head! Keep up the good work! I can’t wait for more videos!!!! ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
Iron is not better than bronze. They’re just as strong as one another, the reason why iron replaced bronze is because iron ore is common while copper and tin is less common and are never mined in the same place.
What about the Theory the Cragnogmen of the Neck being a mixture of human and children of the Forest??
I would like to read or watch a series about the history of the children of the forest and the war with men including the history of the night king and walkers. If done correctly it could fill in the gaps. I could just be weird but, This would be very interesting for me
I watch so many of these types of videos from different creators, that the present tv show was kinda unnecessary. Castle court politics again. But your idea, Jennifer, is way more intriguing to me. If they need a simultaneous Essos story in the same show, that could be cool too.
@@Neenerella333 I’d rather a spin-off show in a land like Essos. The ultimate story of the 7 kingdoms has been told already and we just got a prequel to it too.
Great video !
Damn so the wildlings and the others are the good guys
Some first men still fear skin changers ,, there the one account of them sending that boy " to live with his own kind " ( skin changers ) , later growing into a terrible person who steal others warg beasts,which is against warg culture , , and later theorized that melisandra used charmed magic to warg the king beyond the wall into rattle bones to save his life , except rattle bones was plot twist, actually that original said warg , who warged into rattle bones himself , which is also a sin , n then ultimately got burned to death by stannis
I’m not even 5 minutes in and I already threw up from trying to drink from every time I heard the word, “iron.”
Great video
I know this is an old video
But since the Long Night was stated to be an event lasting generations, I wouldn't doubt that one of the Andal Incursions happened during it
Maybe not the bulk of it but enough for cultural exchange to happen
So there was Brandon Stark and the Last Hero also a Stark (maybe snow) that went ranger beyond the wall..
History is repeating itself.
The Stark are the union of the Andals and First men, perhaps that's why Ricard Stark insisted in a Tully/Stark marriege, and Baratheon/Stark.
But at the same time, We have the Starks being wargs once more, all of them, Bran, Rickon, Arya, Jon, Robb all wargs. Sansa may be to but she doesn't have an animal.
Very intresting
Love your videos 👍🏻
Might be that the Swords arrived before the Andals did, with warriors and merchants crossing the Narrow sea in the years before the Andals crossed, or like how Valyrian Steel reached Westeros before the Targaryens did.
What about the starks being the night king theory, with the tomb , all having iron swords on them ( except 1 ) and old nans story about Iron keeping the dead asleep or something loosely like that
I don't think the Others acted alone I think some of the more sinister factions of Wildlings fought in their side. With Craster we've seen they are willing to work with humans in exchange for worship and sacrifice and history shows every regime no matter how vile and destructive they are have their admirers and apologists.
Very informative but the cadence starts to make it unable to keep following
Good work.
"Andal culture permeated the North" ?? What basis do you have for making this claim? I'm pretty sure there is no reason to think Andals had much influence upon the north's culture.
I have the books as basis. One: the First Men of the North mingled with the Andals:
"The men of the North are descendants of the First Men, their blood only slowly mingling with that of the Andals who overwhelmed the kingdoms to the south.
Two. The literal next sentence afterwards states that the original culture of the First Men then faded away south of the Wall, but not north of it:
The original language of the First Men-known as the Old Tongue-has come to be spoken only by the wildlings beyond the Wall, and many other aspects of their culture have faded away (such as the grislier aspects of their worship, when criminals and traitors were killed and their bodies and entrails hung from the branches of weirwoods.)
There the books are literally stating "many other aspects of their culture have faded away". When a culture fades, another takes its place. The books giving us the only answer: the Andals, especially in this passage:
"Even their house names mark them out, for the First Men bore names that were short and blunt and to the point; names like Stark, Wull, Umber, and Stout all stem from the days when the Andals had no influence on the North."
"... WHEN THE ANDALS HAD NO INFLUENCE ON THE NORTH. - The North, TWoIaF
Also, how are you going to explain the fact of septries being in the North? You, know the septries that worship the Faith of the Seven?
So what quotes and text do you have against my claim?
@@ASoIaFTheorist i don't think the KoW were even first men. The stark family gets its first men blood thru the maternal line. The daughters of the warg king the KoW took for themselves
I had the quiet watching this because he wouldn't stop saying.......IRON
Starks ! FEH! Kneelers all of them. They knelt before the Andals to get Iron, they knelt before the Faith of the Seven, they knelt before the Grey Rats, they knelt before the Targaryen, and they even knelt be fore a Baratheon.
The kings in the north? More like those kneelers up north.
It was a bad idea to play a drinking game and taking a shot everytime he said "the long night"
"The long shot"
This may be a gap in George's knowledge, but iron in itself wouldn't have been much of an advantage if any over work-hardened bronze. Iron only comes into its own when you know how to make it into steel.
Subbing! Hope you make more vids! 😁
Long Night might have come after Andal invasion. This is because the names like Stark, Gardener, Flint, etc etc sound like Common Tongue names and not Old Tongue names. We all know that most of the ancient houses of Westeros descended from Garth Greenhand or the First King of the First Men whose sons and grandsons founded all the houses. Else, why would the First Men translate their family names into Common Tongue and discard their Old Tongue counterparts?
GRRM deliberately made the lore murky and inconsistent so that the universe seems naturalish to us when we read it.
Very Nice work budy, but is boring to pause the video and read. Not everybody can read and listen to you at the same time.
if the andels brought iron, how did the Ironborn get their name pre andel invasion? I don't believe the andels brought iron to the continent, they had refined steel and brought that knowledge. Also for a weapon bronze is better to some extent than raw iron. But nothing compares to steel weapons
Wait, I'm missing something, possibly because I'm slightly drunk, what about the Iron Islands? 🤔
The Ironborn had iron before the Andals came tho, it's literally in their name.
Why Andals choose to be an ally? Because of out numbered?
Anyone know if there’s a part 2 to this?
for a last hero/night king being a stark , that dude tied to the weirwood tree sure was blonde...blond like an andal XD ...maybe he had his mom's hair ;) ...cuz stark andal alliance and the seed is strong both on joefrey and jon. the tree and the acorn bla bla.
How would the First Men know the Others hate iron when they didn't have any iron to confront them with?
But why did the Andals Maesters deny the existence of the Long Knight??
The andals brought steel not iron with them to Westeros. Argument closed
They are just in the wrong side of the wall 😂
I mean the children created the white walkers so not surprising they got wiped out
Not yet confirmed in the book canon
Because it's cool
The wildlings remind me of edgy libertarians who don't want to be ruled by a government so they choose to live beyond the wall where they can be free
Is it me or did he repeat the same thing over and over
Genial :D
Get to.the point already
The long night
I never did trust the Starks
The The The The The
Beside# trying to sound dramatic from your bedroom in your mother’s basement, you also keep repeating the same five or six images, basically making this a podcast with a slide show. UA-cam algorithm, please never recommend this channel to me again!
u
They should make a series of the beginning of everything. I have had enough of petty queens and their bastards!
Make a series about how the Long Night happened to when Aegon decided to conquer the six kingdoms.