I get a lot of hate on this video based on my taxonomy of words. When I say 'Roots Style' I meant how it mounts. On top of the motor in place of the intake manifold. As for everything else, I stand by what I have stated. Yes ProChargers are a CENTRIFUGAL supercharger. I call them ProChargers. Again most people know them as a ProCharger and not the real name for what they are. Call it click bait if you must.
Lethalgarage Yea no need for hate, you couldve been clearer for sure but that’s no excuse to be childish. Procharger is just a brand name of a centrifugal suoercharger (which is just a belt driven turbocharger). You clarified that eventually fairly well, but you were frankly just wrong in your characterization of roots blowers, what you described is not necessary with adequate sized blowers for the particular engine. Near redline roots can fall off a little bit torque wise. Unfortunately also you completely left out twin screw blowers, while most people clump twin screw and roots blowers together because of their similarities and both being positive displacement blowers, they’re very very different and twin screws run much cooler, have none of the peak rpm losses, and sacrifices nothing for that so it still has immediade response and allows you to keep the original power curve of your motor but feels like it’s just much bigger vs centrifugals being so peaky. I bet a lots of the people attacking you don’t realize the difference between roots and twin screws either, but yea. also just fwiw, I know that among certain corners of the car works it seems like procharger is just synonymous w/centrifugal superchargers but outside of mustang and gm v8 aftermarket communities they have very little presence on the market. In the end it’s your choice so it doesn’t matter what anyone else feels about it, personally I’d just go for proper turbo setup if a centrifugal supercharger was my only option, I know they can be a little more for proper turbo setups but I just don’t really get why you’d essentially use something that brings most all of the negatives of turbocharging but without any of the biggest positives, which is how I see centrifugals. There’s a reason OEM’s literally never go that route. The design of turbos make them incredibly flexible and the inability to take advantage of that by setting up a custom boost curve due to the belt driven nature just makes it too much of a compromise for that amount of money in my mind. Anyhow ignore the haters.
Centrifugal compressor provide more pressure output. The downside is at low rpm it doesnt provide anymuch airflow compared to a screw compressor ( supercharger) which provide great airflow at low rpm with less pressure cap.
Centrifugal superchargers deliver a more linear power band. It builds with boost. A roots style or twin screw deliver more power lower in the power band, but still have good top end power. The centrifugal can, and usually does deliver more peak horsepower. Manufacturers usually go with a roots style supercharger for OEM equipment. They give good all around performance on a daily driven vehicle. That's not to say you can't do the same with a centrifugal, just as this guy did. It all depends on your needs and projected goals for your vehicle. Roots/twin screw are also very good in trucks which tend to be heavier vehicles and they also perform well for towing.
Don't know why anyone would hit thumbs down. Love all input, Thank You. I'm 56 of age, built a 67 Cougar from the ages of 15 to 18, sold it now I'm going to do it again so looking for a 1967 or 68 Mercury Cougar(well-aged patina body) minus the drive line so I can install an LS 5.3 supercharged/Procharged. Have a list of parts and on the computer every day gaining info to home build. Have $20.000 saved up so things are looking good. Thanks again for the info.
I actually liked this video. One reason is that there were no curse words. It kills me that so many youtubers think they have to throw in all the four letter words to get the likes. Also, I am someone who understands and knows the differences between the roots, twin-screw, centrifugal superchargers, & prochargers etc. This guy was not reading a script, and so what if his terminology isn't perfect, nobody's is! At least he knows what he wants, and has done a pretty good bit of research on it. I for one think the procharger is an excellent choice! Low profile and lots of power, not to mention the ability to customize his choices by selecting the best procharger setup that will accommodate his particular needs and wants. One thing that I'd like to mention is that procharger offers kits that include injectors as well as tuners for your particular vehicle setup. Good video!
i literally know nothing when it comes to cars, but it’s interesting to me to learn about them and how they work. this video and comment section were unbelievably helpful!!!! thank y’all so much
@@justiny.burner5448 considering a 6.2 puts out around 100 more hp than a supercharged 4.6 im hoping your being sarcastic. I have a Fifty with a borla exhaust and coi and put out 100 more hp. Why wouldent you just pay for the v8 up front than supercharge a 4.6. Makes no sense to me
I like a centrifugal supercharger on a big motor because it will add power without sacrificing drivability. You don't need more down low power in that car, but giving it air up top works with the engine's strengths and weaknesses.
Roots style is dependent on the design of the rotors that push more air into your motor, whipple is a twin screw, I think the correct term you're looking for is positive displacement superchargers, which sit on top of your motor, and centrifugal superchargers which is what a procharger is
Good on ya, I like the video. It just happened to show up in my UA-cam home page. Just a couple of things I wanted to point out or clarify.... "Roots" style is a loosely handled term these days. You can still find them these days, but you will find most are a Twin Screw design. Roots forced the air between the screws to boost pressure, twin screw forces the air around the outside of the screws. Twin screw runs cooler. It's a modern design of the original Roots style. Both styles have inter-coolers. Roots or twin screw have a radiator type setup that fits under the supercharger and you need to have a pump, a reservoir, and an inter-cooler in front of your car to cool the water heated by the compressed air. The twin screw setup has more components. A centrifugal supercharger (Procharger), has just the supercharger that bolts away from intake manifold as you stated, and also has an air-to-air inter-cooler before the throttle body as you stated. Fewer parts in the system. Twin screw style builds power in a linear fashion, centrifugal builds power exponentially. Twin screw builds power right off the low end RPM, centrifugal style needs a little bit of RPM to get some noticeable boost but once it starts to go..... It just keeps going. The Twin screw maxes out of boost way before a centrifugal style does. Street performance tends to lend itself more towards centrifugal style, while off road and low RPM applications more towards twin screw designs... or even a drag race where you need power quickly off the bottom. (Large blower styles that feed a large volume of air, but these do take a massive amount of power to turn.)
I was trying to figure out which charger I wanted between turbo, super or pro. And this video helped me make a decision, I'm going to go with a "procharger". Enjoyed how I could understand what you were talking about all through this video. Hope your build is going great.
@lethal garage finally got my engine rebuilt(I have a 2018 SS 1LE) with a P1SC-1 pro charger. I put forged rods and pistons, cam hydronic roller rockers, kooks long tube heads with cat deletes, Toyo R888R’s in front and back 285 30 20 in front and 315 30 20 in back. One piece driveline and axels all rated for 1000 +HP, and an E85 sensor with a P3 gauge. It’s been road tuned, but hasn’t been put on the dyno and fine tuned because I’m waiting for my one piece driveline to come in(it’s been about six months so far). I also put the 3disc monster clutch. Got to drive it the 500 break in miles and now it’s back at the shop waiting for the final tune. Can’t wait to get it back and see how it does. Was shooting for 850 RWHP running ethanol. I can’t wait for this driveline to come in so it’ll be finished.
This video was great but I think you missed the fact that most the time front mounted centrifugal superchargers can run cooler for a longer period of time so you don't have to let them cool as much to get pull after pull road racing circle track were the car is going to be pushed for alot longer then just a quarter mile the temperatures remain cooler rather then twin screw or roots absorbe the heat from the motor alot more and power suffers from heat soak
If viewers don't know what a Roots blower is they should Google it. There are a few companies still selling small Roots systems, which are okay, but don't easily reach (you have to change pulleys) the PSI a Procharger or Turbocharger does, and they are expensive. The advantage of all superchargers is there is almost instant power. Turbos do have massive top-end. Very informative video! And, you are spot-on regarding the stock fuel pump and injectors with your new boosted system. It will starve for fuel when you start reaching higher rpms. Cheers!
Have a 2012 SS bought it brand new in 11 did full bolt ons, heads, cam, nitrous, 3.71 gears with a posi mod only hit 560/560 on a Mustang Dyno on a 150 shot. Just pulled the LS3 and sold it with only 13k on it. A year and a half deep into the new powertrain ERL Superdeck 6 M5 Turbo shortblock, about 9.5:1 compression. Pat G spec'd blower cam, PRC 255 heads using ERLs half inch ARP head stud kit, Fast 102mm w/ NW 102mm tb, Fast rails, ID 1700 injectors, Squash dual 450 lph setup on hobbs, flex fuel / E85 conversion. F1-A Procharger maxed out hoping to hit 15-17lbs on the 427. McCleod clutch, monster bearing support and remote bleeder. Still looking for hopefully a used 1 piece and some axles but I am willing to pay as I play just to get this thing back on the road. Engine assembly will finally complete in the next few days, then its just plumbing and wiring.
About to get an 06 Chrysler 300 SRT8 and I’m going for the ProCharger set up for the exact reasons you said. I’m still working on the right combination to put me in the 500+ club. Thanks for this video too
Here is the real deal: Procharger, vortec, paxton are centrifugal superchargers. Basically the compressor side of a turbo that is belt drive. They compress air and boost builds linear with rpm. Roots blowers are just air mover. Not compressors. They have rotors inside with lobes that grab air from one side and move it to the intake. Because it moves more than it uses, it creates boost. Works but very inefficient. Whipple is a third type. It’s called a twin screw supercharger. Yes it’s similar to roots cuz it’s mounted on top but that’s where it ends. Inside there are intermeshed screws that reduce in size as they turn thus they actually compress the air. Much more efficient. Roots like roush and some of the factory blowers are essentially air pumps. Centrifugal and twin screw are air compressors. The main difference between a roots and twin screw is the twin screw like whipple requires much less power to perform the same work. Thus for a given application will make more power since its using less power to turn. The roots and screw are positive displacement and will yield more instant and low end power versus a centrifugal which has to “spool” with the engine rpm. A lot of confusion come from the Kleenex isssue. Kleenex is a brand name of tissue. Whipple. Procharger. Roush. Vortec. Are all brand names. The actual item types are centrifugal, roots, twin screw. Hope this helps at least one person
From someone with a whipple/Lysholm charged car in my driveway - thank you for having typed that out so I didn’t have to. My final reason for making the choice was due to the superb adiabatic efficiency - combined with a liquid/air intercooler with an ice chamber (I can get 30-40 minutes of lower than ambient charge temps with a few handfuls of regular old Ice out the freezer; things get a lil more complicated when dry ice comes into play so it’s reserved for more than just an after dinner joyride ;)) throttle response is near telepathic. I’ve had 1 other supercharged car and 2 turbocharged, the twin screw feels the least like forced induction in that it delivers full boost at 900 rpm and just doesn’t let up. The boost is built earlier than you need it - there is never a time you step into it that it isn’t there. This is with either a 9 or 15psi pulley, I feel no reason to push things up to 18 or 20.
I just installed the eforce supercharger I picked it cause you can't hear it super quiet and as far as roasting the tires it does but if you drive normal car behaves just like it did before. So far loving it! Dyno tuning is next & FYI roto fab makes cai's for set ups just call them just ordered one!
I'm looking into a v6 and procharging it . It will be a daily driver and I'm looking to save on the price of vehicle and insurance. Just a procharger for the added power.
v8 ss isnt really alot more. My 2019 camaro ss 6 spd it was cheaper then my 2012 subaru wrx sti LOL and that was a 4 clydr. I would get prices from your insurance for the v8. LT1 is an amazing motor.
Just listened to your comments on the ProCharger. I have one on my Screaming Eagle 103 Harley and am currently running at 12 psi boost and it dyno'd at Speeds trailer in Laconia NH @Bike Week a few years ago at 149 HP at an outside air temperature and of 92F and high humidity so obviously I love it. It's been on for about 8 years and absolutely no issues....
Whipple and Kenne Bell are "Twin Screw" style superchargers. Edelbrock and Eaton are TVS super chargers. While they all look very similar and some would even say they look the same, they are not "roots" style super chargers. The rotors in the housings are designed differently and they spin and mesh differently. For a true "roots" style blower, or supercharger, look up Weiand.
BGCoop79 Yeah, there are two types of Positive Displacement superchargers. Twin screw like a Kenny Bell or Whipple and then there are Roots superchargers like a TVS, edelbrock or Magnuson. Huge difference between the two. Screw blowers compress air between the two rotors. Roots use the rotors to compress the air against the side of the case. Screw blowers are so efficient they are outlawed in many classes of Drag racing. power curves are very different.
@@SkeenDogger The Edlebrock E-Force is a TVS Eaton style twin screw with the intercooler below the twin screws having the forced air blown thru the intercooler into the powerplant. Plus, the E-Force has an internal blow of valve waste gate.
got a D1 procharger on my 16 SS was at 601 I've blown a piston shortly after. I'm getting rebuilt fully forged, blower cam, catch can drag radials. next year I'm doing Borla full exhaust block to tip, methanol, pulley, driveshaft and axles
Also a roots style charger has a pulsing characteristic to the air forces into an engine at the high end of the power band while a pro charger has a more predictable/ steady volume of air across the whole band , a “pro” charger or centrifugal supercharger is the “cold” side of a turbo spliced to a pulley to drive the compressor wheel rather then a turbine on the exhaust side like a traditional turbo , all forms of boost are awesome to me
Roots blowers are the old style suckers that you have to cut your hood open so the big ones will fit. Twin screw superchargers can fit under the hood. Even the Whipple 5Ls and the Kenne Bell 4.7Ls will fit w/o cutting the hood on most cars. I have no beef with Prochargers. The i1 can put out 160hp with just 7psi boost. That's strong power from that design. But from the research and reading I've done, the twin screw chargers make more power with less heat than any other forced induction design. The smallest Kenne Bell blower, the 2.8L, will make 1000hp. The 4.7L has been tested to 1700hp. I think the Whipples are in that power range as well.
Good choice. look forward to the install of the procharger. I agree, the procharger or any centrifugal style supercharger is probably better for a daily driven car. You can even get the same driveability from a Turbo since the boost does come in at a given rpm. I can"t say from my own experience but I have friends that have had roots style, TVS, Whipple, vortech, single turbo etc. Yes, if you want tire shredding torque at a low rpm you go with a roots style the torque midrange to redline centrifugal style.
I want a pro charger for my mustang. Like you said it's the best for DD. Don't worry man go slow with your mods. No rush this stuff is not cheap! Keep up the good work!
I’ve went back and forth between Roots Style and Procharger Style, I’m mostly looking at Procharger now. I got a lot of good info from this video for brands and what the main differences were. And it specially helped me to know that I need to upgrade my fuel injectors and fuel pump too. Keep up the good work dude 🤘🔥
I'm adding a twinscrew supercharger on my pickup. I'm building a tow/off-road truck. the low-end power is going to give me extra power to do what I'm wanting. my whole engine is being built for tourqe not horsepower. but it will still have daily driveability to it as well. hemi's love cylinder pressure and I'm gonna have alot of it.
thank LG - lots of great info for a noob. I have a 5th gen SS that i want to boost eventually. I appreciate the effort you put into making this video, as I am getting more interested in the long term benefits of a supercharger vs. "how it looks".
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Just read the Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger procedure to change the oil. Edelbrock says you have to remove the supercharger to get to the rear drain plug. Absolutely insane to remove the whole Supercharger just to drain and refill 8ozs of oil.
I am so much in your shoes except I have the 5th gen Camaro. Saving money to do a D1 procharge,maybe next year. I have the tires on order. As u know I am cammed, full bolt ons, header, new larger throttle body, long tube headers. Zl1 pump and fuel injector is after the tires. Then I will worry abt axle after Procharger. My 5th gen is 6 speed manual. I learned to drive a manual in this car. what a story...
Building my 2SS to be a daily driveable track car - thus far just wheels, tires, track alignment and KW coilovers. Really interested to see how this procharger works for you on the track - especially as it relates to heat soak.
I've got a 5th gen but I'm running an SLP TVS2300, ZL1 fuel pump and ID850 injectors. 560rwhp. Looking to do a cam this summer. Running about 10psi and kicks in at 2500rpm. I love it.
I have had a turbo, a centrifugal supercharger, and 2 twin screws. I currently just put a Magnuson TVS2300 on my 14 Silverado. The reason I went twin screw. The power and torque come on strong on the low and mid end. My upper end. I'm not so worried about. As the pickup is lifter with 35's. although I spend most of my time in the low rpm range, so I get the most enjoyment out of the power down low. Plus I am not going for all out horsepower or top speed runs
I am more of a roots style kind of guy. I like the low end power and honestly it's more pleasing to look at. I'll probably go with a ported whipple. When I eventually boost the car I'll rebuild and forge the motor, carbon fiber driveshaft/axles and a bigger clutch I'm shooting for 800-850 wheel on my Scatpack once the warranty expires
Roots style blowers can be RPM tuned by use of/change in pulley diameter, on the snout of the blower, effectively changing the RPM range. Like the inverse of an under-drive crank pulley.
A lot of guys are running prochargers on their Mopars and was looking at blowers for my Challenger as well, but haven't decided which one to go with yet. The 6.1s handle boost better than the 392, so I wouldn't be afraid to run a little higher PSI. I've heard that the E force is the best one for the hemis all around, and is probably the one that l will be going with
The easiest and most cost effective way to get more boost out of a whipple is change the pulley. No need for a bigger hood or cutout. The only reason you would need a bigger hood or cutout is if you went with a larger displacement system to begin with. As with anything, eventually, bigger means a bigger hole somewhere.
I was playing midnight club Los Angeles Vortex most definitely on the Turbo whine force induction. Sounds good on V12s and even your Camaro because I heard them having that car sound. Not sure if it's the muffler choice. I heard certain mustangs sounding like a tuner car. Anyone with a tuner car sound yes vortex is the way
I just found your video and I am getting a 2012 LS3 and going the route you are. Currently I have at this point left in my life is an S10 Extreme and getting my cam done by late this week for the 4.3 but I need to call comp back and change it for a definite choice in forced induction. I with you bro. Forgot about drag racing I'm hitting the road track.
I think it should be noted a turbo isn't free of parasitic loses like some explain when comparing to a supercharger. I think in terms of parasitic loss it's around the equivalent of a twin screw or roots blower, their loss being from the mass it rotates mixed with the actual resistance put on the belt from the boost its self. With pro charger style systems being the lesser of the two and I'll explain why. I've built two turbo cars to race with and a twin screw Camaro. Now I'm no expert mind you and these ideas are not strange and they're out there if you know where to look. When you consider turbo charging. Your turbine runs insanely hot. Like melt engine bay components with ease, hot. Like two hours after driving you can cook an egg hot. Engine bay temps are always high, oil temp runs hot quickly and will stay that way requiring really good oil cooling just to keep it in check. Your turbo might even be cooled with your engine coolant and that's even more heat. Then you block your radiator with an intercooler. This is one reason why early turbo cars came with side mount intercoolers, among other reasons like cost or room etc. A turbo needs a totally different cam profile. They can't have the same valve over lap as say a NA engine or supercharger cam. Sure they might be able to be worked around but their not optional and using the wrong cam will lose even more power than the right one. So let's say you build a true turbo engine from your ls3. This will require a better oil pump, better cooling, different cam. To have it run reliably you will need to lower the compression. There are people who run e85, run methanol injection to get around detonation on pump gas due to excessive heat and high comp ratios. But how many of them do it reliably for 50k miles? There's a lot of fighting on that but i have yet to see someone produce a car running those things that hit a high mile milestone. So you lower your compression. Just from the get go. You compare your ls3 with lower compression, different cam, more back pressure and more heat and with no boost side by side you have a big loss in baseline performance between the two engines. The turbo makes that up and then some yes but. Most turbo systems if you've ever been in one do come on strong but fizzle out. This is because they size them to do away with turbo lag for driveability what this essentially means is the compressor part runs out of it's efficiency levels and the engine starts to out demand the turbo. If you size the turbo to be all top end for race you have no bottom end at all and you can launch hard but run the risk of destroying things. Again yes there's ways around this like launch control to build boost or my favorite compound turbo systems. But again that's either damaging to your engine or extremely expensive and complex. Your turbo in my experience in daily driving in the summer will heat soak engine bay temps drastically. Anyone who's driven a turbo in traffic in July during the day vs May at night can tell you the impact on ambient temps and heat soak. Sure you can turn the boost up on a turbo but unless your engine is a 2 liter you will out demand the efficiency really quickly. These efficiency levels are driven by turbine size, compressor size, pipe size, Watergate efficiency etc. if you're trying to spin it to fast and you can't use the exhaust effectively to do so or the turbo is past it's max rpm limits you will run into more problems it's easier to out grow a turbo than most people think. Just changing a cam can over demand the turbo. A twin screw with a bypass valve for cruising is pretty efficient and easy on these engines in a stock form. The liquid cooled system keeps heat soak from being a big issue most of the time. Every system can suffer from that in the right conditions.. its heavy and a lot of rotating mass but i believe it's the strongest and most durable compressor that's both reliable and straight forward. Centrifugal systems are similar to a turbo on design but different in useable power. They experience some power at all levels usually and build gradually this is something that can be utilized in most driving situations. The unit itself is self lubricating and has the lowers mass and less parasitic loss. But you now have an intercooler to deal with. And more spots for possible boost leaks and you have to remove the front bumper for install. My favorite thing about these systems on these cars tho is when you custom install a waste gate on the intercooler piping that references boost and bleeds of excess boost. This is a technique used to spin the charger faster, making more boost lower and hitting a peak boost sooner and allowing boost to stay at that level in more of the rpm range. What this means is let's say you want to run 8 psi from a pro charger but you don't want to only see 8 psi at redline. You spin it faster it makes 8 psi by 4600 or even lower depending on setup. This will give more lower end power and more power throughout the rpm range. This is also more demanding so the engine will require a little more building. I've seen cars do that and do really well on a cam profile for a twin screw. As to which is best that's a personal choice only you can make by looking at what you need it for, what your build will be.
Definitely going to go with Procharger for my 99 WS6, rebuilt engine pit in a hot cam and have MSD mass airforce intake, shopi g for headers and y-pipe for my TSP cat back exhaust curious how much HP ill end with.
Hey Buddy, like hearing what your doing and what you have done when I have time to check out your videos. I am going to be waiting a couple of years before I add a supercharger. Saving money and waiting for warranty to run out some. Thanks Jack
Matt great video very informative this is a great way to get the word out about the difference between the roots style and the centrifical style for the street and daily driving you've got the best set up.
Excited to see numbers once they get ahold of the new Eaton 2650. Definitely hearing you on paying cash over credit. Racecar life is an expensive life.
First of all, Hey LethalGarage, I had to subscribe to ya because your real and explained this properly :D I'm running a Procharger stage 2 setup which has been on my 2016 mustang GT when bought new, I'm now at 18k miles and it still puts a smile on my face :D You can check me out on IG @ GET_RKT_S550
Thanks bro! I'm new when it comes upgrading your car. I just bought a 2107 Z06/7 and I'm looking to upgrade my car to 1000/1200hp. I just don't know which was to go because I still want to keep my legal and fir daily driving. Thanks again for the video!
I know, it will be hard but I see videos that people have done it. I dont know how true it is. Anyway, I just hit the subscribe and look forward on your videos. Thanks!
I think a centrifugal supercharger would be best for street applications because they really are more of a mid to upper power application. Is this correct? Nice video by the way
A little off on the description of how the boost is built up when comparing PD vs Centri. A centri builds greater boost as rpm increases and max boost occurs near redline. The amount of pressure they can build is directly correlated to RPM. A PD blower, on the other hand, moves the same amount of air per revolution of the engine. If sized correctly, a PD blower will shove the same amount of air into the engine at any RPM. In terms of "Area under the curve", roots and twin screw has the Procharger beat. So as you were saying "you aren't going to feel a lot more pull in the upper rpm range...[with a PD blower]" That's not true. If you have a Procharger pulley'd to make 10psi at 6000rpm and a roots or twin screw set up to make 10psi, they should pull about the same up top. The Procharger won't have that boost at lower RPMs like the PD will. Prochargers do have the advantage of having less complexity, weight and cooling efficiency over PD blowers, tho. Heat is a big issue, and it is often a contributor to why you may see PD blowers making less power for a given psi.
I love the power my CTS-V puts out. I know there are things I could change to get more power but I am keeping it stock. Not a fan of a whipple supercharger.
I just ordered a supercharger for my car, but I went with the LT4 blower basically. Shooting for ~550 RWHP ideally. Just trying to figure out what tires to buy at this point. Thinking NT 05's will likely get ordered today. Kudos for paying cash, I put half my blower out on credit but it'll be paid off before the 0% runs out.
5th Gen SS. Will be doing a D1-X the moment I get my line of credit back to zero, half way there since school kinda chained my finances. RWH will be 650 hopefully. Don't know if I'll be doing a cam change from the stock one on the LS3. Have a man.6 and also debating doing axles, drive shaft and the trans refresh/overhaul. Car has under 45,000km (yes Canada eh) so I dunno if I'll need to do all that especially since the cars mechanical components are suppose to be able to support this much power and torque. Love the channel and the vlogs especially since they answer the general questions for people who are either new to Camaro life or just aren't that advanced yet. P.S. My car has the factory lip spoiler, not the big duck tale or the post one just the off trunk spoiler and I agree with you that if it was like a half inch or an inch taller it would be perfect and all the other ones either look stupid or are WAAAAAYYYY to tall. I'll reply here with links to pics/vids later on but again major thanks for having an insightful Camaro channel ^_^
To make more power with a roots supercharger, can’t you just change the pulley size? I haven’t heard anyone say the height matters much, although I can see how that would make more power. But changing pulley size will make the supercharger spin faster across the entire rev range, making higher boost and more power, right?
Just bought a D-1SC procharger for a lot of the reasons you mentioned as well as the roots style systems tend to create more heat under the hood. The C7 Z06's had over heating problems on the track because of that. The only thing I have been trying to figure out is boost management. A tuner can set it up to run a certain way but is there a digital boost controller you can install to lower or raise the boost based on if you are street driving vs drag strip? For a turbo car this is very common but for a centrifugal supercharger I haven't really been able to find one.
Your are using a centrifugal supercharger.... the others are called positive displacement superchargers but vary in a descriptive portion as either a twin screw style or roots style twin screw is newer and more efficient at what it does and the roots is old tech they were used on WW2 planes to help them in high altitudes
You do realize that the Cobra mustangs have the positive displacement blowers on them and they don't "melt the tires every time they touch the gas" right?
Great and informative video. I have a 2012 Grand Sport with a M6, did you get your Procharger? Do you like it? I plan to get one next month from A&A Supercharger.
I would've got the zl1 for about the same amount you've put into your car, 10 speed and zl1 nameplate makes it just a more appealing car for the money. I mean 8 speed isn't bad but in manual mode it downshifts and upshifts like a g8 gxp I used to have (kinda lags)
Enjoyed it! I'm going with the Whipple on my 1LE which should ship next week. It's my DD but I have a very short commute. I look forward to learning how to drive again. :) This is my first supercharger and I do have to say my choice was based more off of sound and looks. I'll be sure to update with the driving experience hopefully soon and maybe buy stock in a tire company. Haha!
Just got her back yesterday afternoon and it was 85 and humid here and so the 305's Goodyear Eagle F1's were pretty sticky. I did drive it for about 4 hours none stop and started with all the Nannies on. Lots of punch down low which required me to relearn how to pedal her. After a bit I turned all of the Nannies off and started to beat her. Front a 5mph roll I would start to press it to the floor as aggressively as I could without blowing the tires off and it spun a bit but stayed really really straight. Maybe that's the eLSD working it's magic. I've had a smile from ear to ear. I will say my wife will probably never want to drive her. That torque down low really throws your head back quick. Definitely not a setup that just anyone can just jump in and drive but man I sure love it!
I already made the decision to go pro charger when the time comes. just makes sense for me. NOT a fan of turbocharged engines and super chargers are to envolved
I get a lot of hate on this video based on my taxonomy of words. When I say 'Roots Style' I meant how it mounts. On top of the motor in place of the intake manifold. As for everything else, I stand by what I have stated.
Yes ProChargers are a CENTRIFUGAL supercharger. I call them ProChargers. Again most people know them as a ProCharger and not the real name for what they are. Call it click bait if you must.
As well as you should
Great information
LethalGarage great video
Lethalgarage Yea no need for hate, you couldve been clearer for sure but that’s no excuse to be childish. Procharger is just a brand name of a centrifugal suoercharger (which is just a belt driven turbocharger). You clarified that eventually fairly well, but you were frankly just wrong in your characterization of roots blowers, what you described is not necessary with adequate sized blowers for the particular engine. Near redline roots can fall off a little bit torque wise. Unfortunately also you completely left out twin screw blowers, while most people clump twin screw and roots blowers together because of their similarities and both being positive displacement blowers, they’re very very different and twin screws run much cooler, have none of the peak rpm losses, and sacrifices nothing for that so it still has immediade response and allows you to keep the original power curve of your motor but feels like it’s just much bigger vs centrifugals being so peaky. I bet a lots of the people attacking you don’t realize the difference between roots and twin screws either, but yea. also just fwiw, I know that among certain corners of the car works it seems like procharger is just synonymous w/centrifugal superchargers but outside of mustang and gm v8 aftermarket communities they have very little presence on the market. In the end it’s your choice so it doesn’t matter what anyone else feels about it, personally I’d just go for proper turbo setup if a centrifugal supercharger was my only option, I know they can be a little more for proper turbo setups but I just don’t really get why you’d essentially use something that brings most all of the negatives of turbocharging but without any of the biggest positives, which is how I see centrifugals. There’s a reason OEM’s literally never go that route. The design of turbos make them incredibly flexible and the inability to take advantage of that by setting up a custom boost curve due to the belt driven nature just makes it too much of a compromise for that amount of money in my mind. Anyhow ignore the haters.
Centrifugal compressor provide more pressure output. The downside is at low rpm it doesnt provide anymuch airflow compared to a screw compressor ( supercharger) which provide great airflow at low rpm with less pressure cap.
Centrifugal superchargers deliver a more linear power band. It builds with boost. A roots style or twin screw deliver more power lower in the power band, but still have good top end power. The centrifugal can, and usually does deliver more peak horsepower. Manufacturers usually go with a roots style supercharger for OEM equipment. They give good all around performance on a daily driven vehicle. That's not to say you can't do the same with a centrifugal, just as this guy did. It all depends on your needs and projected goals for your vehicle. Roots/twin screw are also very good in trucks which tend to be heavier vehicles and they also perform well for towing.
brussell639 your knowledge is appreciated and very correct.
Don't know why anyone would hit thumbs down. Love all input, Thank You. I'm 56 of age, built a 67 Cougar from the ages of 15 to 18, sold it now I'm going to do it again so looking for a 1967 or 68 Mercury Cougar(well-aged patina body) minus the drive line so I can install an LS 5.3 supercharged/Procharged. Have a list of parts and on the computer every day gaining info to home build. Have $20.000 saved up so things are looking good. Thanks again for the info.
I actually liked this video. One reason is that there were no curse words. It kills me that so many youtubers think they have to throw in all the four letter words to get the likes. Also, I am someone who understands and knows the differences between the roots, twin-screw, centrifugal superchargers, & prochargers etc. This guy was not reading a script, and so what if his terminology isn't perfect, nobody's is! At least he knows what he wants, and has done a pretty good bit of research on it. I for one think the procharger is an excellent choice! Low profile and lots of power, not to mention the ability to customize his choices by selecting the best procharger setup that will accommodate his particular needs and wants. One thing that I'd like to mention is that procharger offers kits that include injectors as well as tuners for your particular vehicle setup. Good video!
are centrifugal superchargers and pro chargers different?
Whipple/roots = positive displacement supercharger. Vortech, Procharger = centrifugal supercharger.
@@Knucklehead4400 Whipple = Twin Screw
@@chrism.728 Whipple is a brand, not a type of blower
@@cheeko_914 I'm aware that Whipple is brand of supercharger. The type of supercharger is a twin screw supercharger like I've already mentioned.
@@cheeko_914 that’s what he just said.. Whipple brand=twin screw
i literally know nothing when it comes to cars, but it’s interesting to me to learn about them and how they work. this video and comment section were unbelievably helpful!!!! thank y’all so much
Love my procharger. Running 390 hp in my 4.6.
Should have just bought a V8
@@mr.eastcoastgrow6132 sarcasm I’m hoping
@@justiny.burner5448 considering a 6.2 puts out around 100 more hp than a supercharged 4.6 im hoping your being sarcastic. I have a Fifty with a borla exhaust and coi and put out 100 more hp. Why wouldent you just pay for the v8 up front than supercharge a 4.6. Makes no sense to me
@@mr.eastcoastgrow6132 A 4.6L IS A V8 wdym I’m not sure if ur thinking of a 3.6..cuz a 4.6 is literally a V8
@@mr.eastcoastgrow6132 a 4.6 is a v8 just a smaller block
I have a whipple on my car and it drives like the stock car until you punch the gas. I like the look and instant power
I like a centrifugal supercharger on a big motor because it will add power without sacrificing drivability. You don't need more down low power in that car, but giving it air up top works with the engine's strengths and weaknesses.
Roots style is dependent on the design of the rotors that push more air into your motor, whipple is a twin screw, I think the correct term you're looking for is positive displacement superchargers, which sit on top of your motor, and centrifugal superchargers which is what a procharger is
Im tired of people that think a procharcher is a type of super charger.
Good on ya, I like the video. It just happened to show up in my UA-cam home page. Just a couple of things I wanted to point out or clarify.... "Roots" style is a loosely handled term these days. You can still find them these days, but you will find most are a Twin Screw design. Roots forced the air between the screws to boost pressure, twin screw forces the air around the outside of the screws. Twin screw runs cooler. It's a modern design of the original Roots style. Both styles have inter-coolers. Roots or twin screw have a radiator type setup that fits under the supercharger and you need to have a pump, a reservoir, and an inter-cooler in front of your car to cool the water heated by the compressed air. The twin screw setup has more components. A centrifugal supercharger (Procharger), has just the supercharger that bolts away from intake manifold as you stated, and also has an air-to-air inter-cooler before the throttle body as you stated. Fewer parts in the system. Twin screw style builds power in a linear fashion, centrifugal builds power exponentially. Twin screw builds power right off the low end RPM, centrifugal style needs a little bit of RPM to get some noticeable boost but once it starts to go..... It just keeps going. The Twin screw maxes out of boost way before a centrifugal style does. Street performance tends to lend itself more towards centrifugal style, while off road and low RPM applications more towards twin screw designs... or even a drag race where you need power quickly off the bottom. (Large blower styles that feed a large volume of air, but these do take a massive amount of power to turn.)
I was trying to figure out which charger I wanted between turbo, super or pro. And this video helped me make a decision, I'm going to go with a "procharger". Enjoyed how I could understand what you were talking about all through this video. Hope your build is going great.
Did you get it? Would you recommend pro charger?
@lethal garage finally got my engine rebuilt(I have a 2018 SS 1LE) with a P1SC-1 pro charger. I put forged rods and pistons, cam hydronic roller rockers, kooks long tube heads with cat deletes, Toyo R888R’s in front and back 285 30 20 in front and 315 30 20 in back. One piece driveline and axels all rated for 1000 +HP, and an E85 sensor with a P3 gauge. It’s been road tuned, but hasn’t been put on the dyno and fine tuned because I’m waiting for my one piece driveline to come in(it’s been about six months so far). I also put the 3disc monster clutch. Got to drive it the 500 break in miles and now it’s back at the shop waiting for the final tune. Can’t wait to get it back and see how it does. Was shooting for 850 RWHP running ethanol. I can’t wait for this driveline to come in so it’ll be finished.
This video was great but I think you missed the fact that most the time front mounted centrifugal superchargers can run cooler for a longer period of time so you don't have to let them cool as much to get pull after pull road racing circle track were the car is going to be pushed for alot longer then just a quarter mile the temperatures remain cooler rather then twin screw or roots absorbe the heat from the motor alot more and power suffers from heat soak
If viewers don't know what a Roots blower is they should Google it. There are a few companies still selling small Roots systems, which are okay, but don't easily reach (you have to change pulleys) the PSI a Procharger or Turbocharger does, and they are expensive. The advantage of all superchargers is there is almost instant power. Turbos do have massive top-end. Very informative video! And, you are spot-on regarding the stock fuel pump and injectors with your new boosted system. It will starve for fuel when you start reaching higher rpms. Cheers!
Have a 2012 SS bought it brand new in 11 did full bolt ons, heads, cam, nitrous, 3.71 gears with a posi mod only hit 560/560 on a Mustang Dyno on a 150 shot. Just pulled the LS3 and sold it with only 13k on it. A year and a half deep into the new powertrain ERL Superdeck 6 M5 Turbo shortblock, about 9.5:1 compression. Pat G spec'd blower cam, PRC 255 heads using ERLs half inch ARP head stud kit, Fast 102mm w/ NW 102mm tb, Fast rails, ID 1700 injectors, Squash dual 450 lph setup on hobbs, flex fuel / E85 conversion. F1-A Procharger maxed out hoping to hit 15-17lbs on the 427. McCleod clutch, monster bearing support and remote bleeder. Still looking for hopefully a used 1 piece and some axles but I am willing to pay as I play just to get this thing back on the road. Engine assembly will finally complete in the next few days, then its just plumbing and wiring.
Great vid bro, you do a great job explaining to the average joe what your talking about, keep it up
Will do.
About to get an 06 Chrysler 300 SRT8 and I’m going for the ProCharger set up for the exact reasons you said. I’m still working on the right combination to put me in the 500+ club. Thanks for this video too
Here is the real deal:
Procharger, vortec, paxton are centrifugal superchargers. Basically the compressor side of a turbo that is belt drive. They compress air and boost builds linear with rpm.
Roots blowers are just air mover. Not compressors. They have rotors inside with lobes that grab air from one side and move it to the intake. Because it moves more than it uses, it creates boost. Works but very inefficient.
Whipple is a third type. It’s called a twin screw supercharger. Yes it’s similar to roots cuz it’s mounted on top but that’s where it ends. Inside there are intermeshed screws that reduce in size as they turn thus they actually compress the air. Much more efficient.
Roots like roush and some of the factory blowers are essentially air pumps. Centrifugal and twin screw are air compressors.
The main difference between a roots and twin screw is the twin screw like whipple requires much less power to perform the same work. Thus for a given application will make more power since its using less power to turn. The roots and screw are positive displacement and will yield more instant and low end power versus a centrifugal which has to “spool” with the engine rpm.
A lot of confusion come from the Kleenex isssue. Kleenex is a brand name of tissue. Whipple. Procharger. Roush. Vortec. Are all brand names. The actual item types are centrifugal, roots, twin screw.
Hope this helps at least one person
From someone with a whipple/Lysholm charged car in my driveway - thank you for having typed that out so I didn’t have to. My final reason for making the choice was due to the superb adiabatic efficiency - combined with a liquid/air intercooler with an ice chamber (I can get 30-40 minutes of lower than ambient charge temps with a few handfuls of regular old Ice out the freezer; things get a lil more complicated when dry ice comes into play so it’s reserved for more than just an after dinner joyride ;)) throttle response is near telepathic. I’ve had 1 other supercharged car and 2 turbocharged, the twin screw feels the least like forced induction in that it delivers full boost at 900 rpm and just doesn’t let up. The boost is built earlier than you need it - there is never a time you step into it that it isn’t there. This is with either a 9 or 15psi pulley, I feel no reason to push things up to 18 or 20.
Bout time somebody with some brains
I just installed the eforce supercharger I picked it cause you can't hear it super quiet and as far as roasting the tires it does but if you drive normal car behaves just like it did before. So far loving it! Dyno tuning is next & FYI roto fab makes cai's for set ups just call them just ordered one!
Kennebell is the best supercharger it has power all through the rpm range
That's all twin screw blowers....
I'm looking into a v6 and procharging it . It will be a daily driver and I'm looking to save on the price of vehicle and insurance. Just a procharger for the added power.
v8 ss isnt really alot more. My 2019 camaro ss 6 spd it was cheaper then my 2012 subaru wrx sti LOL and that was a 4 clydr. I would get prices from your insurance for the v8. LT1 is an amazing motor.
just sell your car bro
Just listened to your comments on the ProCharger. I have one on my Screaming Eagle 103 Harley and am currently running at 12 psi boost and it dyno'd at Speeds trailer in Laconia NH @Bike Week a few years ago at 149 HP at an outside air temperature and of 92F and high humidity so obviously I love it. It's been on for about 8 years and absolutely no issues....
Whipple and Kenne Bell are "Twin Screw" style superchargers. Edelbrock and Eaton are TVS super chargers. While they all look very similar and some would even say they look the same, they are not "roots" style super chargers. The rotors in the housings are designed differently and they spin and mesh differently. For a true "roots" style blower, or supercharger, look up Weiand.
ProCharger, Vortech, and Paxton are all considered "centrifugal" superchargers.
BGCoop79 Yeah, there are two types of Positive Displacement superchargers. Twin screw like a Kenny Bell or Whipple and then there are Roots superchargers like a TVS, edelbrock or Magnuson. Huge difference between the two. Screw blowers compress air between the two rotors. Roots use the rotors to compress the air against the side of the case. Screw blowers are so efficient they are outlawed in many classes of Drag racing. power curves are very different.
@@SkeenDogger The Edlebrock E-Force is a TVS Eaton style twin screw with the intercooler below the twin screws having the forced air blown thru the intercooler into the powerplant. Plus, the E-Force has an internal blow of valve waste gate.
Your video is fine once you listen you will understand , appreciate all your videos. i got my 6th gen recently from a wrx i love it
got a D1 procharger on my 16 SS was at 601 I've blown a piston shortly after. I'm getting rebuilt fully forged, blower cam, catch can drag radials. next year I'm doing Borla full exhaust block to tip, methanol, pulley, driveshaft and axles
How much boost were you running on the D1 when you blew a piston?
JasD423 On the new lt1 maybe 6-10 psi...for some reason a few camaro owners have been reporting catastrophic failures on low boost.
Brutal and exspensive...exactly what I'm afraid of....I got a 2015 ls3....hope things are going well
Also a roots style charger has a pulsing characteristic to the air forces into an engine at the high end of the power band while a pro charger has a more predictable/ steady volume of air across the whole band , a “pro” charger or centrifugal supercharger is the “cold” side of a turbo spliced to a pulley to drive the compressor wheel rather then a turbine on the exhaust side like a traditional turbo , all forms of boost are awesome to me
Roots blowers are the old style suckers that you have to cut your hood open so the big ones will fit. Twin screw superchargers can fit under the hood. Even the Whipple 5Ls and the Kenne Bell 4.7Ls will fit w/o cutting the hood on most cars.
I have no beef with Prochargers. The i1 can put out 160hp with just 7psi boost. That's strong power from that design. But from the research and reading I've done, the twin screw chargers make more power with less heat than any other forced induction design. The smallest Kenne Bell blower, the 2.8L, will make 1000hp. The 4.7L has been tested to 1700hp. I think the Whipples are in that power range as well.
Good choice. look forward to the install of the procharger. I agree, the procharger or any centrifugal style supercharger is probably better for a daily driven car. You can even get the same driveability from a Turbo since the boost does come in at a given rpm. I can"t say from my own experience but I have friends that have had roots style, TVS, Whipple, vortech, single turbo etc. Yes, if you want tire shredding torque at a low rpm you go with a roots style the torque midrange to redline centrifugal style.
I want a pro charger for my mustang. Like you said it's the best for DD. Don't worry man go slow with your mods. No rush this stuff is not cheap! Keep up the good work!
+D Mustang will do
turbos can save allot of money aswell, they will also add same power results.
I’ve went back and forth between Roots Style and Procharger Style, I’m mostly looking at Procharger now. I got a lot of good info from this video for brands and what the main differences were. And it specially helped me to know that I need to upgrade my fuel injectors and fuel pump too.
Keep up the good work dude 🤘🔥
My name is Hiram just want to let you know thank you for all the information doing a great job keep it up bro just bought myself a SS Camaro thank you
I'm adding a twinscrew supercharger on my pickup. I'm building a tow/off-road truck. the low-end power is going to give me extra power to do what I'm wanting. my whole engine is being built for tourqe not horsepower. but it will still have daily driveability to it as well. hemi's love cylinder pressure and I'm gonna have alot of it.
that fuel pump is good for the power that you want to make use a Procharger P1 system you will be just fine no worries about fuel system
thank LG - lots of great info for a noob. I have a 5th gen SS that i want to boost eventually. I appreciate the effort you put into making this video, as I am getting more interested in the long term benefits of a supercharger vs. "how it looks".
Just read the Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger procedure to change the oil. Edelbrock says you have to remove the supercharger to get to the rear drain plug. Absolutely insane to remove the whole Supercharger just to drain and refill 8ozs of oil.
I love how prochargers sound. I dont care that they have more lag than root style.
I am so much in your shoes except I have the 5th gen Camaro. Saving money to do a D1 procharge,maybe next year. I have the tires on order. As u know I am cammed, full bolt ons, header, new larger throttle body, long tube headers. Zl1 pump and fuel injector is after the tires. Then I will worry abt axle after Procharger. My 5th gen is 6 speed manual. I learned to drive a manual in this car. what a story...
I have an ls3 as well and wanting to add boast but didn't want to get into forge rebuilding the bottom end....what are your thoughts ?
Building my 2SS to be a daily driveable track car - thus far just wheels, tires, track alignment and KW coilovers. Really interested to see how this procharger works for you on the track - especially as it relates to heat soak.
Definitely a centrifugal fan , the cars driving characteristics stay the same and the power is there when you hit the gas with little to no lag
I've got a 5th gen but I'm running an SLP TVS2300, ZL1 fuel pump and ID850 injectors. 560rwhp. Looking to do a cam this summer. Running about 10psi and kicks in at 2500rpm. I love it.
+Tim Chaney my fuel upgrade should bring me to 715rwhp range
I have had a turbo, a centrifugal supercharger, and 2 twin screws. I currently just put a Magnuson TVS2300 on my 14 Silverado. The reason I went twin screw. The power and torque come on strong on the low and mid end. My upper end. I'm not so worried about. As the pickup is lifter with 35's. although I spend most of my time in the low rpm range, so I get the most enjoyment out of the power down low. Plus I am not going for all out horsepower or top speed runs
I am more of a roots style kind of guy. I like the low end power and honestly it's more pleasing to look at. I'll probably go with a ported whipple. When I eventually boost the car I'll rebuild and forge the motor, carbon fiber driveshaft/axles and a bigger clutch I'm shooting for 800-850 wheel on my Scatpack once the warranty expires
Check out my SS. Kinda what you are talking about.
Roots style blowers can be RPM tuned by use of/change in pulley diameter, on the snout of the blower, effectively changing the RPM range. Like the inverse of an under-drive crank pulley.
c7 spotted at 9:00, very informative video. Great work keep these videos rolling out!
I've got a procharger and turbo on my volvo polestar. Thinking about doing the stage 2 kit on it. That'd get me 430hp in a little sleeper wagon.
A lot of guys are running prochargers on their Mopars and was looking at blowers for my Challenger as well, but haven't decided which one to go with yet. The 6.1s handle boost better than the 392, so I wouldn't be afraid to run a little higher PSI. I've heard that the E force is the best one for the hemis all around, and is probably the one that l will be going with
I have a 427ci iron block with a Harrop 2650 supercharger. Still being built
The easiest and most cost effective way to get more boost out of a whipple is change the pulley. No need for a bigger hood or cutout. The only reason you would need a bigger hood or cutout is if you went with a larger displacement system to begin with. As with anything, eventually, bigger means a bigger hole somewhere.
I was playing midnight club Los Angeles Vortex most definitely on the Turbo whine force induction. Sounds good on V12s and even your Camaro because I heard them having that car sound. Not sure if it's the muffler choice. I heard certain mustangs sounding like a tuner car. Anyone with a tuner car sound yes vortex is the way
Yes I’m thinking about putting a pro charger on my 71 Acadian it’s a 355 t-5 3.73 posi it’s fun now but I want a bit more punch
Whipple (twin screw) and roots style superchargers have bypass valves too. All superchargers have one.
Getting a Procharger done and seen this video instant subscribe🤙🏼
Lethalgarage whipple isn’t a roots supercharger by the way, not chastising you many get that wrong, just figured it was worth mentioning
I just found your video and I am getting a 2012 LS3 and going the route you are. Currently I have at this point left in my life is an S10 Extreme and getting my cam done by late this week for the 4.3 but I need to call comp back and change it for a definite choice in forced induction. I with you bro. Forgot about drag racing I'm hitting the road track.
What a likeable down to earth chap
Came here while researching for a ProCharge for my 13 Chrysler 300 SRT8. Very well explained, great video.
Rafael Breban what did you end up doing? I have a 14’ 300s that idk if I should pro or super charge
I know you're a true Camaro guy. That look at 1:05 says it all.
I think it should be noted a turbo isn't free of parasitic loses like some explain when comparing to a supercharger. I think in terms of parasitic loss it's around the equivalent of a twin screw or roots blower, their loss being from the mass it rotates mixed with the actual resistance put on the belt from the boost its self. With pro charger style systems being the lesser of the two and I'll explain why.
I've built two turbo cars to race with and a twin screw Camaro. Now I'm no expert mind you and these ideas are not strange and they're out there if you know where to look.
When you consider turbo charging. Your turbine runs insanely hot. Like melt engine bay components with ease, hot. Like two hours after driving you can cook an egg hot. Engine bay temps are always high, oil temp runs hot quickly and will stay that way requiring really good oil cooling just to keep it in check. Your turbo might even be cooled with your engine coolant and that's even more heat. Then you block your radiator with an intercooler. This is one reason why early turbo cars came with side mount intercoolers, among other reasons like cost or room etc.
A turbo needs a totally different cam profile. They can't have the same valve over lap as say a NA engine or supercharger cam. Sure they might be able to be worked around but their not optional and using the wrong cam will lose even more power than the right one. So let's say you build a true turbo engine from your ls3. This will require a better oil pump, better cooling, different cam. To have it run reliably you will need to lower the compression. There are people who run e85, run methanol injection to get around detonation on pump gas due to excessive heat and high comp ratios. But how many of them do it reliably for 50k miles? There's a lot of fighting on that but i have yet to see someone produce a car running those things that hit a high mile milestone. So you lower your compression. Just from the get go. You compare your ls3 with lower compression, different cam, more back pressure and more heat and with no boost side by side you have a big loss in baseline performance between the two engines. The turbo makes that up and then some yes but. Most turbo systems if you've ever been in one do come on strong but fizzle out. This is because they size them to do away with turbo lag for driveability what this essentially means is the compressor part runs out of it's efficiency levels and the engine starts to out demand the turbo. If you size the turbo to be all top end for race you have no bottom end at all and you can launch hard but run the risk of destroying things. Again yes there's ways around this like launch control to build boost or my favorite compound turbo systems. But again that's either damaging to your engine or extremely expensive and complex.
Your turbo in my experience in daily driving in the summer will heat soak engine bay temps drastically. Anyone who's driven a turbo in traffic in July during the day vs May at night can tell you the impact on ambient temps and heat soak. Sure you can turn the boost up on a turbo but unless your engine is a 2 liter you will out demand the efficiency really quickly. These efficiency levels are driven by turbine size, compressor size, pipe size, Watergate efficiency etc. if you're trying to spin it to fast and you can't use the exhaust effectively to do so or the turbo is past it's max rpm limits you will run into more problems it's easier to out grow a turbo than most people think. Just changing a cam can over demand the turbo.
A twin screw with a bypass valve for cruising is pretty efficient and easy on these engines in a stock form. The liquid cooled system keeps heat soak from being a big issue most of the time. Every system can suffer from that in the right conditions.. its heavy and a lot of rotating mass but i believe it's the strongest and most durable compressor that's both reliable and straight forward.
Centrifugal systems are similar to a turbo on design but different in useable power. They experience some power at all levels usually and build gradually this is something that can be utilized in most driving situations. The unit itself is self lubricating and has the lowers mass and less parasitic loss. But you now have an intercooler to deal with. And more spots for possible boost leaks and you have to remove the front bumper for install.
My favorite thing about these systems on these cars tho is when you custom install a waste gate on the intercooler piping that references boost and bleeds of excess boost. This is a technique used to spin the charger faster, making more boost lower and hitting a peak boost sooner and allowing boost to stay at that level in more of the rpm range. What this means is let's say you want to run 8 psi from a pro charger but you don't want to only see 8 psi at redline. You spin it faster it makes 8 psi by 4600 or even lower depending on setup. This will give more lower end power and more power throughout the rpm range.
This is also more demanding so the engine will require a little more building. I've seen cars do that and do really well on a cam profile for a twin screw.
As to which is best that's a personal choice only you can make by looking at what you need it for, what your build will be.
Definitely going to go with Procharger for my 99 WS6, rebuilt engine pit in a hot cam and have MSD mass airforce intake, shopi g for headers and y-pipe for my TSP cat back exhaust curious how much HP ill end with.
Hey Buddy, like hearing what your doing and what you have done when I have time to check out your videos.
I am going to be waiting a couple of years before I add a supercharger. Saving money and waiting for warranty to run out some.
Thanks
Jack
I want to procharge my Lancer OZ Rally, it’s only a 2.0L 4g94 but haven’t seen it done yet
Matt great video very informative this is a great way to get the word out about the difference between the roots style and the centrifical style for the street and daily driving you've got the best set up.
Excited to see numbers once they get ahold of the new Eaton 2650. Definitely hearing you on paying cash over credit. Racecar life is an expensive life.
Huh, you mentioned buttonwillow and chuckawalla, you must live around my area of the state I'm in Bakersfield.
I’m down in Temecula, CA
Thanks for another great, informative video! Looking forward to seeing your ProCharger installed!
So am I :)
First of all, Hey LethalGarage, I had to subscribe to ya because your real and explained this properly :D
I'm running a Procharger stage 2 setup which has been on my 2016 mustang GT when bought new, I'm now at 18k miles and it still puts a smile on my face :D
You can check me out on IG @ GET_RKT_S550
LethalGarage At this point, with all of your mods, is your warranty effectively voided?
Can't wait to see what you think once that system is installed ! Your car is already crazy fast
+MojaveKY I need it uber fast
LethalGarage it's gunna be
Thanks bro! I'm new when it comes upgrading your car. I just bought a 2107 Z06/7 and I'm looking to upgrade my car to 1000/1200hp. I just don't know which was to go because I still want to keep my legal and fir daily driving. Thanks again for the video!
1200 and keep it legal? Good luck ;)
I know, it will be hard but I see videos that people have done it. I dont know how true it is. Anyway, I just hit the subscribe and look forward on your videos. Thanks!
N/A if possible is #1 for me but if you need cheap xtra HP, procharger #2, turbo #3 and supercharge #4 (but I love all if done right).
Just lookin bro I'm goin with the whipple and calling it a day lol
Im on the fence as to which system I will use for my corvette but your analysis/perspective was very helpful.
i would just stick to either super chargers or turbo chargers. just depending on what u wamt the car to be built for.
Blessed young man.
I think a centrifugal supercharger would be best for street applications because they really are more of a mid to upper power application.
Is this correct?
Nice video by the way
Trip from Sweden??
Greetings from Sweden :)
Geting my brand new 2SS in 6 weeks, next winter i will also install a Procharger.
+Merlinen82 Nice
ProCharger is just a belt driven turbo. Whipple is a Twin Screw, and a roots style is like an 8-71 BDS
As mentioned a few times here, I talked to Twin Screw as being a top mount, not how the internals work.
A little off on the description of how the boost is built up when comparing PD vs Centri. A centri builds greater boost as rpm increases and max boost occurs near redline. The amount of pressure they can build is directly correlated to RPM. A PD blower, on the other hand, moves the same amount of air per revolution of the engine. If sized correctly, a PD blower will shove the same amount of air into the engine at any RPM. In terms of "Area under the curve", roots and twin screw has the Procharger beat.
So as you were saying "you aren't going to feel a lot more pull in the upper rpm range...[with a PD blower]" That's not true. If you have a Procharger pulley'd to make 10psi at 6000rpm and a roots or twin screw set up to make 10psi, they should pull about the same up top. The Procharger won't have that boost at lower RPMs like the PD will.
Prochargers do have the advantage of having less complexity, weight and cooling efficiency over PD blowers, tho. Heat is a big issue, and it is often a contributor to why you may see PD blowers making less power for a given psi.
For the most part a centrifugal supercharger will always be in its power band at WOT with the 8 speed as it's gear spacing is so close.
I love the power my CTS-V puts out. I know there are things I could change to get more power but I am keeping it stock. Not a fan of a whipple supercharger.
Dude your videos are getting better and better... Keep it up
I would love to setup mine with a procharger seams like would work better for how I want it, since I do use mine daily driver now as well
I just ordered a supercharger for my car, but I went with the LT4 blower basically. Shooting for ~550 RWHP ideally. Just trying to figure out what tires to buy at this point. Thinking NT 05's will likely get ordered today.
Kudos for paying cash, I put half my blower out on credit but it'll be paid off before the 0% runs out.
Jeffrey why not just cam and heads and make the same power
That will not reach 550rwhp
5th Gen SS. Will be doing a D1-X the moment I get my line of credit back to zero, half way there since school kinda chained my finances. RWH will be 650 hopefully. Don't know if I'll be doing a cam change from the stock one on the LS3. Have a man.6 and also debating doing axles, drive shaft and the trans refresh/overhaul. Car has under 45,000km (yes Canada eh) so I dunno if I'll need to do all that especially since the cars mechanical components are suppose to be able to support this much power and torque.
Love the channel and the vlogs especially since they answer the general questions for people who are either new to Camaro life or just aren't that advanced yet. P.S. My car has the factory lip spoiler, not the big duck tale or the post one just the off trunk spoiler and I agree with you that if it was like a half inch or an inch taller it would be perfect and all the other ones either look stupid or are WAAAAAYYYY to tall. I'll reply here with links to pics/vids later on but again major thanks for having an insightful Camaro channel ^_^
can you show more of your car would really like to see it.
Great vid, I’m wanting to boost my forged 397 hemi, pro charger style or super.
Excellent points thank you very much! Im looking into this as well and my gen5 is also a daily A6.
Beo this video always refreshes my understanding of these two systems love the channel bro LONG LIVE LETHAL!
To make more power with a roots supercharger, can’t you just change the pulley size? I haven’t heard anyone say the height matters much, although I can see how that would make more power. But changing pulley size will make the supercharger spin faster across the entire rev range, making higher boost and more power, right?
Just bought a D-1SC procharger for a lot of the reasons you mentioned as well as the roots style systems tend to create more heat under the hood. The C7 Z06's had over heating problems on the track because of that. The only thing I have been trying to figure out is boost management. A tuner can set it up to run a certain way but is there a digital boost controller you can install to lower or raise the boost based on if you are street driving vs drag strip? For a turbo car this is very common but for a centrifugal supercharger I haven't really been able to find one.
Thanks for the info. I will be happy to have the procharger on my 6.0.
This was a helpful video, I’m thinking whipple supercharger for my 5th gen but it’s still a lot idk
Your are using a centrifugal supercharger.... the others are called positive displacement superchargers but vary in a descriptive portion as either a twin screw style or roots style twin screw is newer and more efficient at what it does and the roots is old tech they were used on WW2 planes to help them in high altitudes
Check out Vengence racing build of a 2016 camaro just like your car. Awesome
Going Pro Charger but doing in 2 stages. Stage 1 is Motor dependability first then the PC will be Stage 2. This should yield more power off the PC.
+Tony Moffre Yeah I waited 10k miles.
You do realize that the Cobra mustangs have the positive displacement blowers on them and they don't "melt the tires every time they touch the gas" right?
I would choose the whipple for 2 reasons, the wine and i think it’s cheaper
I think I will go for the procharger for my ls3 vette think it would work the best for me since she is also my daily driver
Great and informative video. I have a 2012 Grand Sport with a M6, did you get your Procharger? Do you like it? I plan to get one next month from A&A Supercharger.
I would've got the zl1 for about the same amount you've put into your car, 10 speed and zl1 nameplate makes it just a more appealing car for the money. I mean 8 speed isn't bad but in manual mode it downshifts and upshifts like a g8 gxp I used to have (kinda lags)
+TanTanBednarski actually I am about $10k cheaper than a base model ZL1
I have a 18 camaro as I have done Texas speed headers awe track exhaust cold air intake tune looking into a whipple or procharge
Enjoyed it! I'm going with the Whipple on my 1LE which should ship next week. It's my DD but I have a very short commute. I look forward to learning how to drive again. :) This is my first supercharger and I do have to say my choice was based more off of sound and looks. I'll be sure to update with the driving experience hopefully soon and maybe buy stock in a tire company. Haha!
+Joe Poland awesome to hear man congrats on the new car
Just got her back yesterday afternoon and it was 85 and humid here and so the 305's Goodyear Eagle F1's were pretty sticky. I did drive it for about 4 hours none stop and started with all the Nannies on. Lots of punch down low which required me to relearn how to pedal her. After a bit I turned all of the Nannies off and started to beat her. Front a 5mph roll I would start to press it to the floor as aggressively as I could without blowing the tires off and it spun a bit but stayed really really straight. Maybe that's the eLSD working it's magic. I've had a smile from ear to ear. I will say my wife will probably never want to drive her. That torque down low really throws your head back quick. Definitely not a setup that just anyone can just jump in and drive but man I sure love it!
I already made the decision to go pro charger when the time comes. just makes sense for me. NOT a fan of turbocharged engines and super chargers are to envolved
+Kendall Rampy ProCharger are also simple boltons