I agree with Ken's quoted statement: "Wokeness is a response to shield white people from being called racist. That's the prupose of Harvard's race preferences. It's not to help blacks. It's not. It doesn't. It's so that Harvard's administrators can tell the world how great and creative and diverse they are."
Kenny is such a wise and brave warrior for justice and meritocracy!!! He is so calm and so articulated! Great job! Kenney!👍👍👍The recent SCOTUS ruling proved that Kenny is right!👍👍👍
➡️👉Harvard Current Minority Demographics 👈 ✅Black American Born citizens only(Not African Nationals from the continent of Africa)15.2% ✅Asian American 27.9% ✅Hispanic or Latino 12.6% ✅Native American 2.9% ✅Native Hawaiian 0.8%
👉Harvard's Breakdown👈 ✅️White 12,074 ✅️International 6,963 ✅️Asian 4,153 ✅️Hispanic 2,876 ✅️Black 1,994 African ✅️Multi-Ethnic 1,198 ✅️Unknown 1,037 ⛔️🤔Harvard diversity statistics shows that there are 39.7 percent white students enrolled at Harvard University, 13.7 percent Asian students, 9.46 percent Hispanic or Latino students, 6.56 percent Black or African American students, 3.94 percent students who identify with more than one race, 0.197 percent students who identify as American Indian or Alaska Native, and 0.118 percent students who identify as Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islanders.
Thomas Sowell had made every argument and presented every statistic mentioned 20 plus years ago. Thomas Sowell one of the best minds the US has ever seen.
Folks need to read Preferential Policies An International Perspective by Thomas Sowell. Dr sowell never went back to Harvard for any functions. He turned 93 years young on June. One of the greatest mind in our life time .
I hope more people see this. I really appreciate how everyone approached this rationally and kept emotions out as much as possible. Also appreciate the gentleman's apology at the end, and hope that everyone understands where he's coming from.
He's coming from a place of pure emotion. He wants revenge. He spewed some facts and some personal experience, presented no good rebuttal to anything anyone said, and didn't really own up to the implications of his tirade. I only wish someone less silly would have spoken up with a reasonable counter view. Hopefully that's because no one could😀
The argument against AA seems fairly common sense. Simply getting admitted into a school is not as valuable as the experience and learning recieved at that school. If AA is resulting in a worse experience and reduced participation in STEM for historically underprivileged groups, then it’s not working. Someone coming out of a high but not top ranked school with a 4.0 and an engineering degree is probably going to have a more fulfilling career than someone went to an elite school intending to be an engineer but getting destroyed by the curve against the best of the best of the best.
Harvard isn't known for engineering. I'm surprised at overhearing students obsessing by saying 'I got in.' calculus was developed by someone in their thirties and later diagnosed with schizophrenia. There is a major grade grubbing and the game of psyching out other students that frequently goes on or students comparing grades constantly. George Westinghouse was told he was too advanced already to study engineering in college. Students can have a mentality about being younger and smarter. Asian students aren't perfect. Other groups can study more. I'm a descendant of king Alfred and getting so annoyed with Kenny's attitude. Historically grades weren't always everything at Harvard. Okay Harvard isn't enamored get over yourselves. Other people deserve to go to Harvard too. It's true though lowest personality score. Harvard hasn't excluded all Asians. What kind of volunteer work? Asians aren't perfect although nonviolent and not sociopaths. Outraged over admissions. What about the DACA kids who were found working in slaughterhouses cleaning them at night as you g as middle school age. Too bad if there were too many Jewish students they tend to exclude others. Jewish students can go to other universities. Harvard wants other people to participate. Harvard wants students who want to save the world not just use Harvard to improve their own status.
@@kel-in5giHarvard isn’t known for engineering? Only because it has so many other number 1 programs to be known for! But don’t believe for a second that Harvard isn’t top tier for engineering as well, eg The Times Higher Education supplement ranking from 2019 looks like this for top 5: University of Oxford Stanford University Harvard University California Institute of Technology Massachusetts Institute of Technology
If 'affirmative action' truly was 'affirmative', more people would support it, but the reality is that 'affirmative action' only ever meant ONE THING: pro-black privilege.
I’m SO HAPPY that in the end of this conference, the Black American CALLED OUT the other Black Person for his TERRIBLE TAKE on Asians, and HELD HIM ACCOUNTABLE.
Why was his take terrible? If nothing else, he again showed what these institutions are willing to do to set up artificial quotas. The man had a standard for passing his class, admin asked him to lower his standards in order to keep numbers high, Wouldn't you feel cheated if you were graded equally to someone who didn't do what was asked of them in that class, but you did?
That’s why he did it. So that everyone would know he’s one of the “ good ones”. Everything is hate nowadays. Even giving an account of your own experiences is hate somehow. That clown said what he said for the exact reason I pointed out. A weak black man who wants to be accepted above all else.
@@markballard1515if you start allowing to that kind of attitude, you know what will start happening? A lot of racism rampant like 1950s. You will again start seeing whites sharing their personal experiences about blacks and using AA to limit blacks access. Sounds familiar? While you complain blacks are disadvantaged, you are saying that’s ok when used against another minority. You are saying racism is ok.
Black Moderator: “Exposure to High Caliber Black Students”. I went to Cornell Engineering in the 1990’s. Let’s just say the well of black talent ran dry long before it got to a lower Ivy like Cornell, even if Cornell still claims on their website to have the best engineering in the Ivy League. The affirmative action students I met at Cornell were unimpressive to say the least (that’s why they are AA). Calling them under-prepared for zero grade inflation Cornell would be an understatement. Glad the Supreme Court put an end to this ridiculousness. Meritocracy all the way!!!!
As a black American woman, I am glad Affirmative Action is gone. Let's move forward, black people, and strive to be twice as good as everyone else! That has always been a fight!😎
Do you know who's not happy? Asians who are now being locked out due to race and complaining. Without AA they have no recourse. This had nothing to do with Blacks who appear to be still getting in without AA.
This was a fantastic discussion, and while I wish this video enjoyed more visibility, I am glad to have come across it thanks to Reddit and I am glad this channel exists.
Meritocracy is the only option. Meritocracy is not perfect but is perfect enough for a successful society. Mediocrity leads to failure as we see in America today led by the mediocre political class.
Fighting against another minority group who had paved the way for all minorities doesn’t sit well with me; moreover, African Americans are not the only group benefiting from Affirmative action. Affirmative action was not designed to lower the standards(maybe schools doing these on their own accord)but to give opportunities to qualified students who might not have had the opportunity to get into the so called elite institutions. The funny thing about all of this is that most of these schools were built from the profits of the opium trade and at the expense of the Chinese people in China and enslaved Africans . In the final analysis, Couple of hundred years later, two minority groups who had been exploited are at each other’s throats to get into institutions who had historically exploited them 🤦♂️.
@@Speedy300 Discrimination and racism is wrong no matter what the circumstances of the minority group. A college's admission policy should be based upon merit, period. Going through school i see so many scholarships and grants from various institutions for blacks, latinos, and native americans. Never one for Asians, never. How's that for fairness? The way i see it blacks are given a leg up in our society because the majority (whites) are afraid to be called a racist.
@@pjscafe I believe grants and scholarships were not just for blacks and Latinos. The question here is : are the Asians immigrants(foreign students)or citizenship ? That being said, my Asian brothers and sisters should be treated fairly. Black Americans deserve a leg up but not at the expense of the Asians. Moreover, affirmative action was supposed to give opportunity to the most qualified minorities and was not supposed to base selection on just skin color alone but some schools might have taken things too far; however, not all black or Latino students got into those schools because of just skin color but were smart enough to handle the work load and etc. Unfortunately, my Asian brothers and sisters just targeted black Americans and made their case by blaming them for everything (Maybe easy target)but the situation is complex (legacy students and schools not just look at grades only but other things as well).
@@Speedy300fighting against another minority group who is racist and unequal. Kenny is a hero to Asian Americans. You say fighting against another minority group who have paved the way for all minorities? I don't think so. Blacks only think of themselves. They have to fight for themselves they had no choice. It's not like they fought intentionally to pave way for anyone. It's absurd. They've been getting a free ride for so long.
Gosh this conversation has so many good comparisons to what companies are doing with their DEI initiatives in trying to raise their ESG scores. I wonder if the results of the Supreme Court rulings will trickle down to the capitalistic markets as well.
Great discussion on such an important issue! 👍👍👍Great job by the panelists and moderator👍👍👍! Our society should have more open discussions like this! Deep appreciation for our Constitution!❤❤❤
@@godzillamegatron3590 My Point Exactly. Thank You. You notice they NEVER talk about the oppression faced by left handed albino transgender lesbian wheelchair bound dwarfs? :-)
Shame on that rude and aggressive black “professor“. I am proud that Kenny kept his cool. I am thankful for Jason Riley’s kind and thoughtful closing words.
Affirmative Action has always been a racist/sexist movement. If you are basing your admissions and/or hiring policies on ANYTHING other than merit, you’re committing a discriminatory act of racism/sexism. Asian Americans generally test higher because most don’t live in a culture than celebrates failure and violence. Blame black Americans’ failure to thrive on the fatherlessness and their cultural norms that are antithetical to success. Jews have faced just as much adversity in our history and yet they represent the pinnacle of education and financial success (occupying a huge percentage of our top paying positions throughout various sectors). Affirmative Action is counterproductive and not conducive to a strong nation. If Asian Americans & white Americans are the better candidate, based on merit, they should receive admittance/the job. Nobody is demanding discrimination against black Americans in professional sports (despite a very blatant disproportionately high percentage of black athletes).
@@godzillamegatron3590 That’s what merit-based scholarships are for. Race has nothing to do with merit or opportunity. It’s all cultural. People hating on rich wht families passing on their wealth to their children fail to acknowledge “crazy rich Asians” which exist in larger numbers.
@@Resvrgam Harvard and Yale are still a business. And tuition is their income stream. My question is , can the Asian students afford to pay the tuitions that these colleges require?
The Black American, Caribbean American, African American experience is not a monolith but its also not that different that we don't know each others plight.
Well done, I wish more of those in authority would act in such a calm and reasoned way with polite debate n discussion from informed people. They are of course right that race shouldn't be counted either for or against you in jobs or education, it's called nasty racism. I was also sad to hear how some SCOTUS Justices seem happy to make very wide interpretations of laws and the Constitution to justify their personal opinions and beliefs rather than following the law as it was written.
Whites have been getting special treatment since the USA was founded, written in racist laws, or unofficially. Jim Crow is a white affirmative action program!! Institutional racism is white affirmative action!!
Asian Americans are fed up. We're fed up with affirmative action, we're fed up being attacked on the streets and then told to shut up whenever the attackers happen to be Black men (which was, in fact, quite often the case). We're fed up, as Ken Xu says here, having our hard work thrown in our face. For shame.
Which is understandable why he would berate Asian Americans. More often than not, they are usually complicit or on code with white supremacy, to be in opposition to blacks. They want white acceptance, which is also part of the true American dream to truly be American in white America. 🇺🇸
"what whites did to blacks" I guess people can compare the life of blacks in the US to those of blacks in middle Africa and see exactly what "whites did to blacks"...
The real problem with affirmative action is that it tries to fix too many diverse problems and lost its effectiveness. We need more diverse programs to address those diverse problems.
@@emryadora ironically, it was used to admit more wealthy African immigrants than historically disadvantaged black Americans. It was also used to admit more Hispanics than Blacks. These top colleges used AA to discriminate certain race (Asian) and mask their wrongs in the past but they actually further disadvantaged the American blacks. What AA should have been is scoping it down narrowly to say american born blacks so it isn’t used to discriminate other races. Alas that wasn’t the case
👉Harvard's Breakdown👈 ✅️White 12,074 ✅️International 6,963 ✅️Asian 4,153 ✅️Hispanic 2,876 ✅️Black 1,994 African ✅️Multi-Ethnic 1,198 ✅️Unknown 1,037 ⛔️🤔Harvard diversity statistics shows that there are 39.7 percent white students enrolled at Harvard University, 13.7 percent Asian students, 9.46 percent Hispanic or Latino students, 6.56 percent Black or African American students, 3.94 percent students who identify with more than one race, 0.197 percent students who identify as American Indian or Alaska Native, and 0.118 percent students who identify as Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islanders.
⛔#FactsDoMatter "Affirmative action has been quite beneficial to women, and disproportionately beneficial to white women. Women are now more likely to graduate with bachelor’s degrees and attend graduate school than men are and outnumber men on many college campuses. In 1970, just 7.6 percent of physicians in America were women; in 2002, that number had risen to 25.2 percent. But - and this is a big but - those benefits are more likely to accrue to white women than they are to women of color, and that imbalance has very real effects on employment and earnings later in life. In other words: affirmative action works, and it works way better for white women than it does for all the other women in America."~IMDiversity and PewResearchCenter
💥💥💥Updated US Census Data💥💥 💥White (Born Citizen):(57.8% of the US Pop./ 204.3 Million People)(This also includes Persian/Middle Eastern/ Arab ethnicities) College Attendance: 42% 💥Black(Born Citizen): (14.2% of the US Pop./ 47.2 Million People) College Attendance: 36% 💥Latino/Hispanic(Born Citizen):(18.5% of the US Pop./ 62.1 Million People) College Attendance: 39% 💥Asian(Born Citizen):(5.9% of the US Pop./ 18.6 Million People)(All Asian Ethnicities/Indian/Pakistani) College Attendance: 58% 💥Native Americans: 2.9% of US Population/ 9.7 Million People)(This include native Alaskans) College Attendance: 19%
If AA is shut down, I believe that brings a lot of momentum for people to go after legacy seats next. If race can't be use for preferential treatment, then who you're related to should also not be a reason for preferential treatment. Some folks believe that AA is the first domino that needs to fall to get rid of all these discriminating policies.
I don’t want to hear anything Kenny Xu has to say until they repay Americans from the damage covid has caused! Kenny was very anti black on some of his interviews he did, and im so curious why is he so keen on African American in their acceptances in these universities. Why didn’t he bring up how his immigrant parents received money, housing, and guidance with free lawyers to be able to thrive in America, which allowed them to focus on his education. He could have advocated for better funding for public schools.
You don’t see but a small handful of Black people complaining about Affirmative Action ending. I’m Black and felt it could have been done away with years ago but my only concern is the racism that exists in this country. A case for ending affirmative action at Harvard could have been based on the graduation rates of the Black, White and Asian students. They were all extremely high only a 1 percentage point difference. The case could have been Black kids can succeed without Affirmative Action but the racism in America would not allow anything good to be said about Black people. Instead you get some Asian person to get up there crying about unqualified Black students taking their slots when their slots were most likely taken by unqualified Legacy students. I have been complaining about the disrespect ever since the ruling but my friends are like F them, let’s just see what happens when they are rejected and don’t have that affirmative action pacifier to suck on. Look for some mass shooting down the road I say.
If you think black students cannot do the work, admit it, find a 12-step program, and move out of the way. Expect the same rigor from every student without prejudice. Leave it behind and never look back.
All I know is that if you have cancer or a critical ailment, or just flying to another city etc, you'd want the most competent professional in the field to serve you. In addition, IMO arguing for affirmative action is in itself a form of racism as to be "fair" to a particular minority race, you'd have to discriminate against another minority race who has fared much better scholastically.
I said this before and I will say it again. I find it incredible that AA is a thing in a world where we have pilots/surgeons/engineers. I want those professions to be handed and trained by their merits and expertise over an arbitrary measurement of fairness. AA is discriminatory against skill.
As if to say Black ppl accepted to Harvard are accepted despite being functionally illiterate. The graduation rate among African Americans at Harvard is 96%. Additionally, there’s no such thing as a meritocracy at Harvard, because, going by that rubric, the student body would be 48% Asian. Thirdly: just because you’re adept at taking and passing a standardized test, doesn’t mean you’ll be a successful person in life, or that your contribution to society, will be over and above anybody else. Bill Gates was a high school dropout.
@@paulhaye I did not make assertions about functionality and graduation rates etc. That is a whole other debatable topic. The points you brought up are all the exceptional circumstances. Sure, you can be great and do poorly on standardized tests. Sure, you can do great on exams and be unsuccessful. No one is arguing those points. However, there is a base general baseline and for most people the result of an exam is one of the manners in which you can assess viability for a position. People love to use that "Bill Gates was a drop out " line but that is the exception. How many drop out and become Bill Gates? Additionally, he didn't succeed because he dropped out. He did so despite of it. His success is due to a lot of other factors. Bringing up Bill Gates was a drop out shows you do believe success is not contingent upon getting a Harvard education. So then why fight for AA given it's not the end all be all for success? The main point of this is that meritocracy drives society towards progress.
@@Tone2K To show that African Americans at Harvard are not unqualified dunces. They are there because they are qualified to be there. Actually, as sad as it is to see AA go, I’m somewhat glad. What are you all going to complain about now? Hear this: the entire USA, is an affirmative action program…for white people! If you’re a white man, and you cannot make it in America, it probably has nothing to do with affirmative action. Such a person will have to examine their own shortcomings and inadequacies.
@@paulhaye Bill Gates as others of the ilk are the exceptions. Generally more highly educated people have better outcomes in wealth and lifestyle for example, than the less educated.
I don't and won't ask for special treatment. But at least all people of many races in America should have their own right and protection. No matter if we are African American, Middle-east Americans, European American, Latino Hispanic, Asian American, or Native American. There are many Smart people and dumb people in the world; as well as hardworking dedicated people and lazy people. Why hate, prejudice and critical others.
Here's a true life example of the actual race problem in employment. A Black man applies for a skilled position as a service technician. He meets all education and experience requirements of the position. All the applicants must take a competitive examination on ELECTROMECHANICAL TECHNOLOGY. The Black man scores 97% on the test to make the number one highest score. THREE white males with LOWER test scores are hired. The Black man who made the top test score was NOT hired! Do you see the problem?
Question for my asian brother: If Asians are capable of such high performance and Harvard is not living up to its promise of accepting high achievers regardless of race, why bother going there when there are thousands of other high performing universities that would gladly take you (and it would probably be cheaper too)? Or, does the desire for a Harvard education extend beyond the academics, say, an Asian who goes to Harvard is superior to those other Asians who did not. It is not clear to me that every graduate of Harvard, though very close to, is not 100% guaranteed that you will live the best life better than a non Harvard graduate, nor does going to Harvard automatically make you a good person.
1) that’s what Asians are doing. Look at colleges in California. 2) the point isn’t Harvard. Harvard is highlighted bc it’s the focus of the case and it’s a big name. Also as the panelist explained it has a cascading effect through all of higher education bc Harvard is at the top
@@huckfin1598 Harvard is at the top because educated elites want it there. Ok, fine, if you can afford to do that. The argument remains cyclical because the name conveys status that others continue to feed it. Ex. Nike is a big name shoe, but that does not translate that the shoe itself is worth what it cost to make it. the market agreed to pay a $200 price tag when it costs $5 to make. Marketing is one hell of a drug. My point is. Harvard is marketing an elite experience, but its behavior reflects the ideas of a naïve 13 year old playing identity politics. To who is the onus on to determine the true value? Or are the attendants and contributors of Harvard victim to sheep/ herd mentality? Again, if Asian are putting in the tremendous amount of work to attend a school that prides itself at the elite level, then turns and abandons the actual elite performers, then, in my vision, it no longer is elite, others opinions be damn. The institution also has a burden to prove to me that it is worth my time.
@@safetythirdified I don’t see how anything you stated relates to my response. Seems like you simply had a response ready and was going to shoe horn it in regardless. Have fun with that
The assumption that black students are not up to par with their classmates is so insulting. You’re talking about Education. The material presented is new to each student and how can you make an assumption that Harvard is admitting black students who cannot keep up.Disgusting!
If we did do away with AA then no one will have any doubts if a black or under represented person graduates from ivy leagues school. They won't have doubt about themselves, their employers, and their customers will not have a doubt that they had special preferences. I think it's for the best of everyone.
@@migo-migo9503 Nobody doubts that but racist people. People who get their world view from others vs evidence. Just look at our current SCOTUS today,look at which one is most qualified. You won’t know how Amazing and smart the black community is because they won’t teach our history. Understand that if it was not for many black inventors you would not be remotely capable of even making this comment on your device.
@@HGiff There are no statistics or data that makes that a fact. So maybe your definition of “fact” is whatever makes you feel good about yourself. 🤔 hmm
@@pierrethegod22 In California, before 1996, when affirmative action was still legal in UC system, black graduation rate in UCLA was significantly lower than Whites and Asians. After prop 209, fewer black students were admitted to UCLA, but their graduate rate went up.
YES. Academic standards are much higher. And rightfully so, the students at elite schools are the best of the best, and you have to teach at the pace of the average student. It’s horrible to be at the bottom of your class no matter where you go to school. It discourages those who would’ve done well in another setting to switch programs or worse, drop out and not graduate.
I think we need more affirmative action. Everything has to be fair! Its not fair that the NFL gives preference to African Americans. they should employ the 20 percent rule so that we dont have to run as fast. raise the 40 yrd dash bar. gives us extra second!
Is Harvard that important? I agree that we should not only go to HBUC, when we are qualified to go to other colleges based on our skills and not our color. Why did the black guy in the end check Jason Riley, he was just stating what he was told to do?
That black Georgetown Prof. was rebuked enough at the end, but he wants us to believe Asian Indians, who are native English speakers, have problems with class discussion?? No Effing way. What planet is he on?? Not buying it for a second!
Harvard has money💰💰💰💰, tons of money, to cover what they are doing or not doing! It is sad that a leading university just spent so much energy and money to just do the "window dressing" and harm the real justice!
AA has always been the privilege of Black and Brown people. People always say Black and Brown people have been oppressed the most but I call this bullshit. Asians have always been the most oppressed people in America. They just dont complain.
You’re absolutely correct. The US government has discriminated against Asians the most in its entire history: 1. Chinese Exclusion Act. Didn’t happen to any other race. Yup. Banned from entering. A legal law. There was never a law that made all b lacks slaves. Not all slaves were b lack either. 2. Asian Exclusion Act. This banned Asian men from marrying non-Asian women. Yet another “law”. Same law which stated Asians could not become naturalized citizens. Bunch a fawkin bs 3. Locking up Japanese Americans simply for their race. Never happened to anybody else. German Americans actually committing espionage and planning sabotage. Yet not rounded up en mass. No Japanese American US citizen was ever convicted of espionage. Asians have to behave and if they don’t there are severe repercussions. 4. Korean Americans LA Riots. Attacked for their race. Mainly by b lacks. No protection. The systemic r acism of today with school admissions and even hiding honor merits by Asians and lost scholarships. More fawkin BS. All it seems to do though is create a harder studying and harder working Asian American. Isn’t this what happens with middle children or non-spoiled kids? The US government and especially trash liberal DemocRats need to back way off and start holding people accountable. Too much coddling of b lacks and Latinos. They are capable of doing much better. Those who think otherwise are the real r acists. Latinos still doing much better and improving. B lacks appear to be regressing. The more coddling given the worst it gets. There are so many highly successful b lacks and in order to retain usually comes from hard work and core values. They know themselves those struggling have an uphill battle. First things first. Stop victim mentality. Trash liberal DemocRats don’t want b lacks to succeed. That’s why they coddle and try to uplift and enable bad behavior.
Nice lie but no one forced Asians to come to the USA and if they wish to keep their heads down then don't dare step on the feet of African Americans or Native Americans!!! If Asians in the US were systematically disenfranchised, burned out, raped, and lynched for 400 years the Asians would be broken. Asians kiss up to whites, so pathetic.
@@Vieen1810 Thats like saying, no one forces Black or Brown people to stay in America. If they aint smart enough to get in prestigious universities, then its their fault. Time for AA whicu is the privilegeof Black and Brown peolle to go. Now, as a matter of fact, Asians belong to America as native Americans are Asian and White people have played big roles in building America *Looks at the list of American presidents*. I think we should give more medals and rewards to awesome American cops for keepinf America safe. Deport protesters back to where they came from.
@@iROChakri Obviously you are not intelligent enough to understand what I stated. Lap dogs have no brains. You claimed African Americans were not discriminated against, your statement is based on your ignorance and racism. You are a dullard. Institutional racism in the USA is white affirmative action. The Asians have been riding on affirmative action and Civil Rights that African Americans were fighting former 1810!! These laws benefited Native Americans who could vote freely in the 1960s. No one in the USA has been more abused, murdered, raped, lynched, and disenfranchised than Natives and African Americans. White destroyed dozens of Black town, even the two in Central Park. Whites committed atrocities in the 19th 20th century that are documented. To bad you are uninformed, did attend University. The Asians see themselves as the next whites, that child thinks all Asians are genius. He is are dimwitted as you, it is very laughable. The Anglo Saxons (white) need more attack dogs so they did a cattle call in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Running to the USA like insects the Irish, Scottish, Greeks, Jews, Norwegians, and Germans lost their minds after 1880 to be given Native land by the government. That is welfare and affirmative action for uneducated illiterate immigrants, that would one day be considered white as long as they destroyed Natives and African Americans. You people that came after the Civil War do not understand the USA, it's history or regions. People like you are racist, anti Civil Rights for Black people. You are not scholars, you don't have objects and art from the 17th and 18th centuries. If you don't own a private library and collection of antiquities then your status and enlightenment are not developed. Qualified African Americans and Natives are often overlooked so unqualified white men and women,could be hired. Racist see all Blacks as inferior that is why affirmative action is needed. African Americans have been in the lands that would become the USA for over 400 years, free or slave they built this country. African Americans did more for the US than you late arrivals.
Affirmative action, concerning the 3rd point, creates a narrative that tells the minority students "you weren't good enough to get here on your own" which is deplorable. Add in the fact that these students were unprepared and that only gets worse. I would hate to see the dropout rates because of it. Affirmative action should have been a case of providing necessary education to lift up people of any race, gender, or religion who want higher education to allow them to succeed in college, extra funding for the poor, and hard rule legislation preventing ANY form of discriminations as to student selection. The bar that should be met is entry scores -- that's it. The problem with such legislation as we have seen so far is that is promotes inequality by definition. For racism to not be a "thing" all people have to be treated equally, no matter what the color of their skin is. Many people who could succeed well at places like Harvard simply cannot hope to afford the education, due to outrageously high costs. These schools were arguably designed to be the education of future leaders, based upon income, and to keep out those who couldn't afford them. I.E. poor people didn't need to worry about a higher education, as they couldn't pay for it. These schools were often founded in classism to begin with.
Plaim and simple. Decision taken to give or not give a opportunigy based on skin color is discrimination, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATOON, EMPLOYMENT ETC. These affirmative actions kind of stupid laws causes contradiction and more loop holes to increase discrimination and racsim for those who want to discriminate. Its happening with genders too now. Opportunities must be based on merit, not skin color. Every race have their genea strenghts, weakness but every race also have all types of peoples with all types of strenghts and weakness. Not every occupation, every job, every place needs to have equal amount of races which is stupid. But the right people for the right place. Just like extreme feminists dont argue about why more women are not un constructions, affirmative action promoters wont argue why more blacks are in sports, becox what they are fightung for will never happen, equal percentage of every race in every place is pure nonsense. Simple and plain, equal opportunities for all, based on merit, not gender not skin color. Any other rules will create more loop holes to be abused.
Statistics shows that *white women benefits the most from Affirmative Action.* There are also data to show that many of the Black and Brown students from disadvantaged backgrounds who strived to get into Ivy league Institutions, score more than the white legacies and donations gifting applicants. Why are these asians not suing the school for giving their positions to those privileged, but underqualified whites instead? Why pick on those who were already marginalized out of the gate? Once again, the Black people who fought for the opportunities that allowed them to even be in such positions to attend these schools are the ones being punished in the ununited states.
The basic premise of the discussion needs to be re-examined. Why should somebody be cut out? In today's day and age, with the levels of advancement in technology, why are we still fixated on old ratios like student:teacher? Why aren't we working towards increasing class sizes? Why aren't we looking at bringing from kids into top tier universities - the argument that it dilutes the class room experience is bogus, especially when technology can do so much of the teaching already.
Successful non-discriminatory policies would imply that racial discrimination can hold people back. The supposed need for Affirmative Action implies that race is what holds people back. How is that not racist?
This is clearly a one-sided panel pretending to have a debate. Very Strange. But typical pick a Fault illogic argument. The point is not whether AA has problems or side-effects (there are many, like everything else). The quotation is the balance of Benefits vs Cost. And you hear no benefit argument here. So how can you make the correct conclusion with just one-sided evidence? For example, you did not hear the evidence that Harvard admits Asian at 4-5 times its population rates, well over-represented.
Unless you can definitely point the BENEFITS, so called, of AA, you can't say the is one sided panel. Besides, you're losing sight of the event. These folks here have never hidden their dislike for the program, and have largely convinced some of us based on evidence provided. So accusing them of being one-sided is pointless and ignorance on your part. If you have any counter arguments, then bring it on. That's how meaningful discussions are had. Not throwing up useless labels.
@@protectionplustv7172 That is exactly my point, there is No One in this panel who believes, right or wrong, there is benefits to AA. But we do know there are lots people believe that, Right or Wrong, and defend AA. You should invite them here and debate with these guys who are against it. This is by definition Called One-Sided Panel, like I pointed out before. Your point that this One-Side is actually the Right Side is irrelevant to my Argument. For a Real Debate, which side is Right should come out of Debate itself, not by the organizer. This is the whole point of an Open and Free society, that no one should control the Debate outcome.
It’s not supposed to be a debate. It’s people doing work in this area and sharing their expertise. It’s an expert panel, not a debate panel. Secondly, idk what kind of cost-benefit analysis you’re running, but it doesn’t shake out on the benefit side of the ledger no matter how you slice it. Lastly, your fact about Asian acceptance rates is so laughably irrelevant, and shows you don’t understand how numbers work. Only about half of all Asians qualified (by objective metrics) to attend Harvard actually get in, while those (of other races - Latino, Black, Native American) who are not qualified get in. It doesn’t matter that Asians are over represented compared to their population, but it very much matters that they are systematically discriminated against to the point where roughly half of all those who should get in, don’t. That’s an injustice of epic proportions.
@Benjamin Asian is currently 4x its population ratio in Harvard. And you said it should be 8x, hence the discrimination. I, as an Asian, do not believe Aisan kids are 8x better than other groups. Your root problem is the belief that students that Harvard rejected are not qualified for Harvard. Harvard said many time, it could take 10x more qualified students easily. It rejects many perfect SAT and straight A students very year. It tries very hard to form a very diverse student body for the benefit of the student education. So it does not judge kids by testing score only. That is why there are all kinds athletes, kids from all US States, from kids many different foreign countries, and many different kids like dancers, bands, writers, singers etc. Of course there are also kids of donors and alumni etc. By the way, Harvard does not only prepare kids to be scientist. It also education the next generation of leaders for communities, government and other organizations. So it is nature for it to admit Black kids for the black communities, Latino kids for Latino communities etc.
Your complaint makes no sense when the panel was never framed as a debate. In any case the question here should be when Asian Americans on average spend 3x the time studying relative to their peers (based on information presented in the panel), whether that warrants their over-representation. In other words, should we as a society reward hardwork and merit or skin color?
That 20 points sounds like nonsense without evidence. Yet those 20 points that she said went to those students failed to also state that those black students were more than qualified than most of those who had basics required to attend the uni. Tell the truth.
Basically its picking on people telling them theyre not as smart as others because of their parents. It's like making fun of someone because of their weight or acne or being poor or wearing past season clothes or the neighborhood someone lives in whether they live in apartment or house what zip code they live in
If a house is detached or they hire a gardener or they shop at JC Penneys instead of Neiman Marcus where their parents drive a Volvo a Toyota or a Porsche or a pickup truck what their parents do for a living
We need to make up for the years that white Americans were not given access to these schools. I think a financial disbursement would be suitable. We could issue a reparation! We could make it a huge event .So they get theirs we get ours.
Just this conversation has me not wanting my Black child anywhere near Harvard with all these generalizations flying around about people. I wonder can these people possibly be happy ? Life is much to short to be involved in pretentiousness and just unnecessary stuff. And what does it get you a political job in DC. Thanks but no Thanks.
AA is not an issue in Ivy League admissions. The point of AA is NOT to just pick a random black kid and add them to the school to meet a quota. This is what Asian Americans are mad about and this is precisely why their lawsuit will fail: Say a black student applies to Harvard with a 90% on the SAT/ACT, a 4.0 GPA, extra curricular, and actually has a personality. Say a Chinese American student applies to Harvard with a 95% on the SAT/ACT, a 4.0 GPA, extra curricular, and actually has a personality. Men like Xu claims that Harvard should clearly choose the Chinese American applicant over the black applicant because the Chinese American applicant had a higher grade on the SAT/ACT and if they do not choose the Chinese American applicant but choose the black applicant instead, it's because of Affirmative Action and the black student doesn't deserve that spot. Unfortunately, that's not how admissions works. IVY league schools have not now or EVER admitted students based *solely* on academic achievement. It's only ONE factor. The interview is another, wanting a diverse student body is another, keeping legacy families coming back is another, etc. It's never been solely based on academics. Yet, Asian Americans find it easier to target Black students because they know for a fact they won't win if they try to target Harvard admitting legacies. What's even more telling about their obvious racist attitudes towards black students is the fact that they NEVER question the merit of legacies. They NEVER question if white legacy students deserve to be there or are "qualified" based on their perceived academic standards. But those legacies are white kids....so of course they get a pass. Of course. It's far easier to claim that black applicants do not meet the base level academic level to be worthy of a Harvard admission. It's far easier to just assume that the black applicants do not have the grades or SAT scores to even be in the running with Asian students. Their entire lawsuit is based solely on conjecture. Read the lawsuit. It assumes black mediocracy. It assumes that Harvard admissions is based on who had better SAT scores and GPA's. It's assuming a whole lot actually. It's suing Harvard as if Harvard has committed a crime. As if there is a law that stipulates that applicants must be ranked in Admissions based solely on their SAT/ACT and GPA and admitted at a cut off point. These Asian Americans really want the U.S college admissions process to mimic the way it's done in Asian countries. We are not China...we are not South Korea. We DO NOT do things that way here and never have. But if you are making the argument that we should do things that way....then what are you going to do when Harvard is 99% Asian but only 1% can afford to pay Harvard? Endowments make it possible for Harvard to admit students on scholarship. But if all the white legacy students are no longer admitted because they didn't make the cut....endowments go away. A Harvard education shouldn't be cheapened by merit only admissions. That's un-American.
You’re a complete joke and don’t even provide a valid example. The black student has a much lower GPA and much lower SAT vs the Asian American applicant. This has already been proven out. What has also been proven is that the Asian American is graded much lower in simple things like personality since it’s a simple excuse to give to basically discriminate. When meeting the rejected applicant there are no issues and it’s already proven also that in college b lacks have more behavior and violence issues. The drop out rate is much higher also for b lacks. And you shouldn’t have to worry about 99% Asians because if one raises the expectations for b lacks or anybody then they are more than capable of achieving. Instead of skin color better to go off of income. The whole problem with AA is that rich under achieving b lacks get into Harvard vs poor Asian Americans. AA is r acist anyhow. MLK even said just base off of merit not skin color. Why you want this shows your inherit nature of r acism. Let’s just treat each other equal or if we want those who are poor to have some opportunity then ok.
It’s so funny to me that we’ve come to a point where asking for equal treatment irregardless of race is now apparently racist. These Asian Americans are frankly closer to MLK’s vision for society than you are. Legacy admissions has its own issues, but legacy admissions does not discriminate on the basis of race. Conflating legacy with AA is frankly intellectually dishonest.
In fact, the black students’ credentials are way lower than you portray. You can spin if they just fall short a little bit, but you can’t spin when you’re way below. After all, it is unconstitutional to make any decision base on skin color. That’s precisely the RACIST AA try to correct.
Meh. Wrong. If all academic scores are equal, race becomes the deciding factor. And that’s wrong no matter what. Racial discrimination is wrong. No matter what. So please. Just stop. All that hot air to say that blacks should be given preference based on their skin color. Gtfo with that 😂
I was looking at my parents high school. Annual -1950 and noticed that there quarter more females than males-so it seems like the issues involved will never be repaired
America always put personality skills first. I am qualified for the job but had little or no personality skills so I didn’t get the job. I have known people who could barely read and/or write and you couldn’t tell because they had all the personality skills in the world and they ended up doing even better than others because of their personality. I, on the other hand always had low paid jobs because of it. So, are you saying that America should hire people even with no personality skills. I don’t know………if they’ll change that for one group of people. Good luck. I am not Asian.
Affirmative Action for African Americans is like actively leaving someone bedbound/deconditioned then at college-bound age, finally giving them crutches to go run a marathon for the rest of his/her life. It‘s very inhumane. They belong in rehab until the root cause is addressed which is inadequate primary/formative education.
Here's a true life example of the older race problem in employment that never went away. A Black man applies for a skilled position as a service technician. He meets all education and experience requirements of the position. All the applicants must take a competitive examination on ELECTROMECHANICAL TECHNOLOGY. The Black man scores 97% on the test to make the number one highest score. THREE white males with LOWER test scores are hired. The Black man who made the top test score was NOT hired! Nothing has really changed for Black Americans but a few visible race tokens on display. Do you see the problem?
@@willharriman1881 You are referring to employer affirmative action. The more common reality we are faced nowadays is white applicants scoring 97th percentile and preferential treatment of black applicants scoring 85th percentile. Again, I’m not saying the reverse never happens.
@@ckrgksdkrak You are somewhat confused! The original race problem in the white dominated USA system is that whites did not want any honest, fair competition from Black Americans! In fact, most employment race discrimination today is specifically defined by Black Americans with concrete SUPERIOR qualifications being passed over in favor of LESS QUALIFIED whites! Historically, many Black Americans graduated from historical Black colleges only to find they were relegated to low level jobs like bathroom attendants and janitors. There are many documented cases where highly capable Blacks were called to TRAIN unqualified whites who would later be promoted above the capable Blacks who trained them! WHAT? You actually THOUGHT only whites could possess superior skills and knowledge? If so, you've been totally brainwashed! Even today, there are Blacks with engineering degrees who couldn't get jobs in engineering! But, the mainstream media only pushes the image of gangsta rap chatacters, so people like YOU think it's Black culture!
@@ckrgksdkrakNo most employers don’t have test scores as a criteria. Second, you totally ignore the fact that white pseudoscience created this whole mess. Blacks were and have always been deemed less intelligent than everyone else. The same pseudoscience allow a model minority to attack black people who have always been excluded from employment and colleges James Meredith is one classic example. He was shot and needed the National Guard. This Asian representative will never go through anything remotely like that and he graduated on top of it. So that standardized inferior troupe is dead.
that's not the root cause either! It's been proven many times over. The root cause is a system what 'sells' the idea of college that is not in the interest of the 'student'. Some people just don't belong in a college/university, and no, that's not a racist statement: you need to see how successful people are from trade schools. Why 'force' people to become book smart when they are not so inclined when they can learn a trade that suits them much better, and keep them out of debt? In today's environment, the idea of a 'college degree' is for the benefit of those who take the payments, not those who are told they need a college degree to get anywhere in life. THAT is the problem.
It’s interesting that this black woman dismiss the hard work put in by Asians and Jews who she equate to having had core values that made them successful. news for u- it’s more about hard work. Not all Asians and Jews are part of the model minority, a myth; I’m an Asian who through MY choices are not as successful as other Asians. I’m responsible. IT’s cultural. Blacks as a whole don’t have that culture. Those that do are successful and tend to be conservatives. Woke liberal blacks want to dismiss the responsibility of what it takes to be successful. Blacks as a whole need to own that and break the chains of victim mentality.
Harvard is looking for other characteristics and qualifications in its prospective student body. There are plenty of black and Hispanic students who deserve to be at harvard. Its not all about points to harvard. Punctuation is part of the SAT you are telling us that punctuation is a compoment in meritocracy
if you happened to be Asian which by the way incompased an entire continent make this whole argument nonsensical and up to insulting about the issues they put in display. I couldn't help notice that was not a real debate on the issues rather than a long list of Why are they getting this and am not.
Maybe everyone should start out on the same level. MIT stopped grading freshman year because a female chinese burned the dorm room. College isnt supposed to be such a pressure cooker people are killing themselves once they 'get in'. I hear asian students all over uc Berkeley campus talking nonstop about getting in. I heard some optometry students expressing frustration over missing one or two points rather than discussing the actual test question. Optometry is dispensing glasses not opthamology where there is subtlety involved. This grade grubbing obsession with the point of proving you are better than someone else is intended to hurt someone's feelings and hope they fail drop out and fall through the cracks.
Affirmative action = good. If black people are 20% of the population in America, then there will be a LOT of cuts in basketball, rap, etc… let’s see if people still support affirmative action.
@@emryadora you are missing the point. Affirmative action brought to the logical end (I.e. not limited to only college) showcases the extreme idiotic nature of the idea. The only reason anyone would favor affirmative action is because there happens to be 1 instance that you can agree but you become logically inconsistent when it’s placed in other areas.
Kenny are you happy with yourself hearing this about Jews since you thought it was just about black people? I guessed you left this bit out deliberately.
I agree with Ken's quoted statement:
"Wokeness is a response to shield white people from being called racist. That's the prupose of Harvard's race preferences. It's not to help blacks. It's not. It doesn't. It's so that Harvard's administrators can tell the world how great and creative and diverse they are."
proving once again that liberals 'helping' blacks is simply semantics, nothing more. I don't think you can get more condescending than that!
Kenny is such a wise and brave warrior for justice and meritocracy!!! He is so calm and so articulated! Great job! Kenney!👍👍👍The recent SCOTUS ruling proved that Kenny is right!👍👍👍
Wokeness is a black term that was co-opted by white people on both sides of the argument for their culture war.
➡️👉Harvard Current Minority Demographics 👈
✅Black American Born citizens only(Not African Nationals from the continent of Africa)15.2%
✅Asian American 27.9%
✅Hispanic or Latino 12.6%
✅Native American 2.9%
✅Native Hawaiian 0.8%
👉Harvard's Breakdown👈
✅️White 12,074
✅️International 6,963
✅️Asian 4,153
✅️Hispanic 2,876
✅️Black 1,994 African
✅️Multi-Ethnic 1,198 ✅️Unknown 1,037
⛔️🤔Harvard diversity statistics shows that there are 39.7 percent white students enrolled at Harvard University, 13.7 percent Asian students, 9.46 percent Hispanic or Latino students, 6.56 percent Black or African American students, 3.94 percent students who identify with more than one race, 0.197 percent students who identify as American Indian or Alaska Native, and 0.118 percent students who identify as Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islanders.
Thank you brother, thank you Kenny Xu.
Thomas Sowell had made every argument and presented every statistic mentioned 20 plus years ago. Thomas Sowell one of the best minds the US has ever seen.
I agree!
Folks need to read Preferential Policies An International Perspective by Thomas Sowell.
Dr sowell never went back to Harvard for any functions. He turned 93 years young on June.
One of the greatest mind in our life time .
Really?
I hope more people see this. I really appreciate how everyone approached this rationally and kept emotions out as much as possible. Also appreciate the gentleman's apology at the end, and hope that everyone understands where he's coming from.
He's coming from a place of pure emotion. He wants revenge. He spewed some facts and some personal experience, presented no good rebuttal to anything anyone said, and didn't really own up to the implications of his tirade. I only wish someone less silly would have spoken up with a reasonable counter view. Hopefully that's because no one could😀
@@teacherrussell5206 His apology was unnecessary., people didn't hear what he said ,they heard what they chose to.
That last guy talking about the emotional discussion 😅😅😅 Shoved right up the victim’s butt 😂🎉
The argument against AA seems fairly common sense. Simply getting admitted into a school is not as valuable as the experience and learning recieved at that school. If AA is resulting in a worse experience and reduced participation in STEM for historically underprivileged groups, then it’s not working. Someone coming out of a high but not top ranked school with a 4.0 and an engineering degree is probably going to have a more fulfilling career than someone went to an elite school intending to be an engineer but getting destroyed by the curve against the best of the best of the best.
Affirmative action is synonymous to virtue signaling on the part of white majority.
You left out the part where you dont' actually know how AA works......but wanton ignorance and stupidity is what Right Wingers do.
Harvard isn't known for engineering. I'm surprised at overhearing students obsessing by saying 'I got in.' calculus was developed by someone in their thirties and later diagnosed with schizophrenia. There is a major grade grubbing and the game of psyching out other students that frequently goes on or students comparing grades constantly.
George Westinghouse was told he was too advanced already to study engineering in college. Students can have a mentality about being younger and smarter. Asian students aren't perfect. Other groups can study more. I'm a descendant of king Alfred and getting so annoyed with Kenny's attitude. Historically grades weren't always everything at Harvard. Okay Harvard isn't enamored get over yourselves. Other people deserve to go to Harvard too. It's true though lowest personality score. Harvard hasn't excluded all Asians. What kind of volunteer work? Asians aren't perfect although nonviolent and not sociopaths. Outraged over admissions. What about the DACA kids who were found working in slaughterhouses cleaning them at night as you g as middle school age. Too bad if there were too many Jewish students they tend to exclude others. Jewish students can go to other universities. Harvard wants other people to participate. Harvard wants students who want to save the world not just use Harvard to improve their own status.
@@kel-in5gi If Harvard is looking for other students, they need to do let these groups know what parameters are starting in grade school..
@@kel-in5giHarvard isn’t known for engineering? Only because it has so many other number 1 programs to be known for! But don’t believe for a second that Harvard isn’t top tier for engineering as well, eg The Times Higher Education supplement ranking from 2019 looks like this for top 5:
University of Oxford
Stanford University
Harvard University
California Institute of Technology
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
If 'affirmative action' truly was 'affirmative', more people would support it, but the reality is that 'affirmative action' only ever meant ONE THING: pro-black privilege.
While benefiting white women the most 🤡
I’m SO HAPPY that in the end of this conference, the Black American CALLED OUT the other Black Person for his TERRIBLE TAKE on Asians, and HELD HIM ACCOUNTABLE.
Why was his take terrible? If nothing else, he again showed what these institutions are willing to do to set up artificial quotas. The man had a standard for passing his class, admin asked him to lower his standards in order to keep numbers high, Wouldn't you feel cheated if you were graded equally to someone who didn't do what was asked of them in that class, but you did?
That’s why he did it. So that everyone would know he’s one of the “ good ones”.
Everything is hate nowadays. Even giving an account of your own experiences is hate somehow. That clown said what he said for the exact reason I pointed out. A weak black man who wants to be accepted above all else.
@@markballard1515 No, he did it because the previous black gentlemen was just spewing Asian hate. Here's some advice, "Do better or stay behind."
Is academic excellence solely based on population percentage?
@@markballard1515if you start allowing to that kind of attitude, you know what will start happening? A lot of racism rampant like 1950s. You will again start seeing whites sharing their personal experiences about blacks and using AA to limit blacks access. Sounds familiar? While you complain blacks are disadvantaged, you are saying that’s ok when used against another minority. You are saying racism is ok.
Black Moderator: “Exposure to High Caliber Black Students”. I went to Cornell Engineering in the 1990’s. Let’s just say the well of black talent ran dry long before it got to a lower Ivy like Cornell, even if Cornell still claims on their website to have the best engineering in the Ivy League. The affirmative action students I met at Cornell were unimpressive to say the least (that’s why they are AA). Calling them under-prepared for zero grade inflation Cornell would be an understatement. Glad the Supreme Court put an end to this ridiculousness. Meritocracy all the way!!!!
When did you graduate?
@@shantelane2553 1990’s. I finished in 2.5 years. Pretty impressive for such a difficult engineering program if I do say so myself.
Finally people speaking the truth in the face of entrenched corrupt power.
I'm a black American and I score at the top of my classes. Going forward, I will identify as Asian.
Good for you! Go ahead!! Good luck. 😆
😅
As a black American woman, I am glad Affirmative Action is gone. Let's move forward, black people, and strive to be twice as good as everyone else! That has always been a fight!😎
Do you know who's not happy? Asians who are now being locked out due to race and complaining. Without AA they have no recourse. This had nothing to do with Blacks who appear to be still getting in without AA.
This was a fantastic discussion, and while I wish this video enjoyed more visibility, I am glad to have come across it thanks to Reddit and I am glad this channel exists.
You cannot mandate the outcome. Some groups will be over represented when merit comes into play.
Black American merit never matters when genuine white racism is operating! That has always been the actual problem!
Kenny Xu: develop your on-camera charisma and energy level; start running.
So true. Typical boring Asian. Harvard is right to make it grossly more difficult for Asian students.
Meritocracy is the only option. Meritocracy is not perfect but is perfect enough for a successful society. Mediocrity leads to failure as we see in America today led by the mediocre political class.
Very good moderator
Kenny Xu is a hero to Asian Americans and all who are against discrimination.
Fighting against another minority group who had paved the way for all minorities doesn’t sit well with me; moreover, African Americans are not the only group benefiting from Affirmative action. Affirmative action was not designed to lower the standards(maybe schools doing these on their own accord)but to give opportunities to qualified students who might not have had the opportunity to get into the so called elite institutions.
The funny thing about all of this is that most of these schools were built from the profits of the opium trade and at the expense of the Chinese people in China and enslaved Africans .
In the final analysis, Couple of hundred years later, two minority groups who had been exploited are at each other’s throats to get into institutions who had historically exploited them 🤦♂️.
@@Speedy300 Discrimination and racism is wrong no matter what the circumstances of the minority group. A college's admission policy should be based upon merit, period. Going through school i see so many scholarships and grants from various institutions for blacks, latinos, and native americans. Never one for Asians, never. How's that for fairness? The way i see it blacks are given a leg up in our society because the majority (whites) are afraid to be called a racist.
@@pjscafe I believe grants and scholarships were not just for blacks and Latinos. The question here is : are the Asians immigrants(foreign students)or citizenship ? That being said, my Asian brothers and sisters should be treated fairly. Black Americans deserve a leg up but not at the expense of the Asians. Moreover, affirmative action was supposed to give opportunity to the most qualified minorities and was not supposed to base selection on just skin color alone but some schools might have taken things too far; however, not all black or Latino students got into those schools because of just skin color but were smart enough to handle the work load and etc.
Unfortunately, my Asian brothers and sisters just targeted black Americans and made their case by blaming them for everything (Maybe easy target)but the situation is complex (legacy students and schools not just look at grades only but other things as well).
@@Speedy300fighting against another minority group who is racist and unequal. Kenny is a hero to Asian Americans. You say fighting against another minority group who have paved the way for all minorities? I don't think so. Blacks only think of themselves. They have to fight for themselves they had no choice. It's not like they fought intentionally to pave way for anyone. It's absurd. They've been getting a free ride for so long.
all of us are against discrimination except blacks and white liberals.
Gosh this conversation has so many good comparisons to what companies are doing with their DEI initiatives in trying to raise their ESG scores. I wonder if the results of the Supreme Court rulings will trickle down to the capitalistic markets as well.
Our society needs more such open discussions, which are so rare nowadays ...🙏🙏🙏
Great discussion on such an important issue! 👍👍👍Great job by the panelists and moderator👍👍👍! Our society should have more open discussions like this! Deep appreciation for our Constitution!❤❤❤
What I understand is that this colleges offered students courses that do not help to get a job but a college debt.
This discussion is so refreshing! Thank you all!
It’s about CULTURE over skin color
Reparations or die
I think culture plays a role
@@torrencegill4650 Specifically the IQ that comes with the culture.
@@bobsmith3983 IQ is a learned skill!
@@torrencegill4650 Absolutely not. Have you figured out why you couldn't attend MIT?
Here is the problem with Affirmative Action. A question: Did She/He get the job because they were the best, or because they are black?
EXACTLY!
Or because they was Latino or native American
@@godzillamegatron3590
My Point Exactly. Thank You.
You notice they NEVER talk about the oppression faced by left handed albino transgender lesbian wheelchair bound dwarfs?
:-)
Steven the same can be said about whites
Chief diversity officer?
Shame on that rude and aggressive black “professor“.
I am proud that Kenny kept his cool.
I am thankful for Jason Riley’s kind and thoughtful closing words.
what did you expect from an affirmative action professor?
It highlights his emotional immaturity and his personal racial biases against Asian Americans. Rinse and repeat.
Affirmative Action has always been a racist/sexist movement. If you are basing your admissions and/or hiring policies on ANYTHING other than merit, you’re committing a discriminatory act of racism/sexism.
Asian Americans generally test higher because most don’t live in a culture than celebrates failure and violence. Blame black Americans’ failure to thrive on the fatherlessness and their cultural norms that are antithetical to success. Jews have faced just as much adversity in our history and yet they represent the pinnacle of education and financial success (occupying a huge percentage of our top paying positions throughout various sectors).
Affirmative Action is counterproductive and not conducive to a strong nation. If Asian Americans & white Americans are the better candidate, based on merit, they should receive admittance/the job. Nobody is demanding discrimination against black Americans in professional sports (despite a very blatant disproportionately high percentage of black athletes).
But can these high performance Asian students pay the full cost of the tuition at these schools?
@@godzillamegatron3590 That’s what merit-based scholarships are for. Race has nothing to do with merit or opportunity. It’s all cultural.
People hating on rich wht families passing on their wealth to their children fail to acknowledge “crazy rich Asians” which exist in larger numbers.
@@Resvrgam Harvard and Yale are still a business. And tuition is their income stream. My question is , can the Asian students afford to pay the tuitions that these colleges require?
@@godzillamegatron3590 Considering, statistically, Asian Americans have a higher household income than white Americans, I don’t see why they couldn’t.
@@godzillamegatron3590 can the blacks? Many of them come with scholarships or take out loans; kind of a moot point, at least in context.
The Black American, Caribbean American, African American experience is not a monolith but its also not that different that we don't know each others plight.
"Sharing your personal experiences" ? In anger and with a target! I really appreciate the last speaker who pointed out the hypocricy.
Vote for Kenny Xu for Congress in North Carolina's GOP primary in March 2024!
I am so proud of this young man.🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏👍❤️
Very proud!!! Indeed! We need more discussions like this!❤❤❤
Dr. Sowell brought this to light more that thirty years ago.
Well done, I wish more of those in authority would act in such a calm and reasoned way with polite debate n discussion from informed people. They are of course right that race shouldn't be counted either for or against you in jobs or education, it's called nasty racism. I was also sad to hear how some SCOTUS Justices seem happy to make very wide interpretations of laws and the Constitution to justify their personal opinions and beliefs rather than following the law as it was written.
"Zoo animals"? He stated tons of racial stereotypes. Where did he come from? It has benefited White women more. Historical accuracy.
I think the question is, are they really succeeding if given special treatment?
Forget that ! why are you not dealing with the systems that allowed broken homes? Why are we acting like everyone is not racist?
No. They fail and drop out.
@@michelleder108 Whites, Jews, Italians drop out.
Whites have been getting special treatment since the USA was founded, written in racist laws, or unofficially. Jim Crow is a white affirmative action program!! Institutional racism is white affirmative action!!
Success is relative. Your idea of success is subjective and yours. Problem begins when you try to define success for others and their families.
Asian Americans are fed up. We're fed up with affirmative action, we're fed up being attacked on the streets and then told to shut up whenever the attackers happen to be Black men (which was, in fact, quite often the case). We're fed up, as Ken Xu says here, having our hard work thrown in our face. For shame.
bs
1:03:30 is powerful.
Which is understandable why he would berate Asian Americans. More often than not, they are usually complicit or on code with white supremacy, to be in opposition to blacks. They want white acceptance, which is also part of the true American dream to truly be American in white America. 🇺🇸
"what whites did to blacks"
I guess people can compare the life of blacks in the US to those of blacks in middle Africa and see exactly what "whites did to blacks"...
The real problem with affirmative action is that it tries to fix too many diverse problems and lost its effectiveness. We need more diverse programs to address those diverse problems.
Those that benefits more from AA it is mostly white woman that benefits more than blacks
@@emryadora ironically, it was used to admit more wealthy African immigrants than historically disadvantaged black Americans. It was also used to admit more Hispanics than Blacks. These top colleges used AA to discriminate certain race (Asian) and mask their wrongs in the past but they actually further disadvantaged the American blacks. What AA should have been is scoping it down narrowly to say american born blacks so it isn’t used to discriminate other races. Alas that wasn’t the case
👉Harvard's Breakdown👈
✅️White 12,074
✅️International 6,963
✅️Asian 4,153
✅️Hispanic 2,876
✅️Black 1,994 African
✅️Multi-Ethnic 1,198 ✅️Unknown 1,037
⛔️🤔Harvard diversity statistics shows that there are 39.7 percent white students enrolled at Harvard University, 13.7 percent Asian students, 9.46 percent Hispanic or Latino students, 6.56 percent Black or African American students, 3.94 percent students who identify with more than one race, 0.197 percent students who identify as American Indian or Alaska Native, and 0.118 percent students who identify as Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islanders.
⛔#FactsDoMatter
"Affirmative action has been quite beneficial to women, and disproportionately beneficial to white women. Women are now more likely to graduate with bachelor’s degrees and attend graduate school than men are and outnumber men on many college campuses. In 1970, just 7.6 percent of physicians in America were women; in 2002, that number had risen to 25.2 percent. But - and this is a big but - those benefits are more likely to accrue to white women than they are to women of color, and that imbalance has very real effects on employment and earnings later in life. In other words: affirmative action works, and it works way better for white women than it does for all the other women in America."~IMDiversity and PewResearchCenter
💥💥💥Updated US Census Data💥💥
💥White (Born Citizen):(57.8% of the US Pop./ 204.3 Million People)(This also includes Persian/Middle Eastern/ Arab ethnicities)
College Attendance: 42%
💥Black(Born Citizen): (14.2% of the US Pop./ 47.2 Million People)
College Attendance: 36%
💥Latino/Hispanic(Born Citizen):(18.5% of the US Pop./ 62.1 Million People)
College Attendance: 39%
💥Asian(Born Citizen):(5.9% of the US Pop./ 18.6 Million People)(All Asian Ethnicities/Indian/Pakistani)
College Attendance: 58%
💥Native Americans: 2.9% of US Population/ 9.7 Million People)(This include native Alaskans)
College Attendance: 19%
Legacy Seats are the problem that's not being spoken about
If AA is shut down, I believe that brings a lot of momentum for people to go after legacy seats next. If race can't be use for preferential treatment, then who you're related to should also not be a reason for preferential treatment. Some folks believe that AA is the first domino that needs to fall to get rid of all these discriminating policies.
Legacy lawsuit started
I don’t want to hear anything Kenny Xu has to say until they repay Americans from the damage covid has caused! Kenny was very anti black on some of his interviews he did, and im so curious why is he so keen on African American in their acceptances in these universities. Why didn’t he bring up how his immigrant parents received money, housing, and guidance with free lawyers to be able to thrive in America, which allowed them to focus on his education. He could have advocated for better funding for public schools.
I am happy that Jason Riley pointed that out - YES absolutely on target.
Wow all three are right, great panel!
You don’t see but a small handful of Black people complaining about Affirmative Action ending. I’m Black and felt it could have been done away with years ago but my only concern is the racism that exists in this country. A case for ending affirmative action at Harvard could have been based on the graduation rates of the Black, White and Asian students. They were all extremely high only a 1 percentage point difference. The case could have been Black kids can succeed without Affirmative Action but the racism in America would not allow anything good to be said about Black people. Instead you get some Asian person to get up there crying about unqualified Black students taking their slots when their slots were most likely taken by unqualified Legacy students. I have been complaining about the disrespect ever since the ruling but my friends are like F them, let’s just see what happens when they are rejected and don’t have that affirmative action pacifier to suck on. Look for some mass shooting down the road I say.
If you think black students cannot do the work, admit it, find a 12-step program, and move out of the way. Expect the same rigor from every student without prejudice. Leave it behind and never look back.
How can we get more Asian Americans???? This is important if we want to be the best.
All I know is that if you have cancer or a critical ailment, or just flying to another city etc, you'd want the most competent professional in the field to serve you.
In addition, IMO arguing for affirmative action is in itself a form of racism as to be "fair" to a particular minority race, you'd have to discriminate against another minority race who has fared much better scholastically.
If you are on the deathbed and your doctor is Black or Latinos, say goodbye to your family. The affirmative doctors? Good luck.
I said this before and I will say it again. I find it incredible that AA is a thing in a world where we have pilots/surgeons/engineers. I want those professions to be handed and trained by their merits and expertise over an arbitrary measurement of fairness. AA is discriminatory against skill.
As if to say Black ppl accepted to Harvard are accepted despite being functionally illiterate.
The graduation rate among African Americans at Harvard is 96%.
Additionally, there’s no such thing as a meritocracy at Harvard, because, going by that rubric, the student body would be 48% Asian.
Thirdly: just because you’re adept at taking and passing a standardized test, doesn’t mean you’ll be a successful person in life, or that your contribution to society, will be over and above anybody else.
Bill Gates was a high school dropout.
@@paulhaye
I did not make assertions about functionality and graduation rates etc. That is a whole other debatable topic.
The points you brought up are all the exceptional circumstances. Sure, you can be great and do poorly on standardized tests. Sure, you can do great on exams and be unsuccessful. No one is arguing those points. However, there is a base general baseline and for most people the result of an exam is one of the manners in which you can assess viability for a position.
People love to use that "Bill Gates was a drop out " line but that is the exception. How many drop out and become Bill Gates? Additionally, he didn't succeed because he dropped out. He did so despite of it. His success is due to a lot of other factors.
Bringing up Bill Gates was a drop out shows you do believe success is not contingent upon getting a Harvard education. So then why fight for AA given it's not the end all be all for success?
The main point of this is that meritocracy drives society towards progress.
@@paulhaye I forgot to add. The overall graduation rate at Harvard is close to 99%. I am unsure about the relevance of the 96% statistic.
@@Tone2K To show that African Americans at Harvard are not unqualified dunces. They are there because they are qualified to be there.
Actually, as sad as it is to see AA go, I’m somewhat glad. What are you all going to complain about now?
Hear this: the entire USA, is an affirmative action program…for white people!
If you’re a white man, and you cannot make it in America, it probably has nothing to do with affirmative action.
Such a person will have to examine their own shortcomings and inadequacies.
@@paulhaye Bill Gates as others of the ilk are the exceptions. Generally more highly educated people have better outcomes in wealth and lifestyle for example, than the less educated.
Do kids need training wheels to ride bikes at 30?
You gonna debate this???
Reparations or die
I don't and won't ask for special treatment. But at least all people of many races in America should have their own right and protection. No matter if we are African American, Middle-east Americans, European American, Latino Hispanic, Asian American, or Native American.
There are many Smart people and dumb people in the world; as well as hardworking dedicated people and lazy people. Why hate, prejudice and critical others.
US should throw affirmative action out. What universities should open more places if think that it want to include more races.
What about affirmative action across the employment practice and social promotion versus merit and actual efficiency and excellence
Here's a true life example of the actual race problem in employment. A Black man applies for a skilled position as a service technician. He meets all education and experience requirements of the position. All the applicants must take a competitive examination on ELECTROMECHANICAL TECHNOLOGY. The Black man scores 97% on the test to make the number one highest score. THREE white males with LOWER test scores are hired. The Black man who made the top test score was NOT hired! Do you see the problem?
@@willharriman1881 Right but people don't get this.
@@niaedmonds3342 You are Right! When this happened, the mainstream media wouldn't touch it! They claimed the story wasn't newsworthy!
Question for my asian brother: If Asians are capable of such high performance and Harvard is not living up to its promise of accepting high achievers regardless of race, why bother going there when there are thousands of other high performing universities that would gladly take you (and it would probably be cheaper too)? Or, does the desire for a Harvard education extend beyond the academics, say, an Asian who goes to Harvard is superior to those other Asians who did not. It is not clear to me that every graduate of Harvard, though very close to, is not 100% guaranteed that you will live the best life better than a non Harvard graduate, nor does going to Harvard automatically make you a good person.
1) that’s what Asians are doing. Look at colleges in California.
2) the point isn’t Harvard. Harvard is highlighted bc it’s the focus of the case and it’s a big name. Also as the panelist explained it has a cascading effect through all of higher education bc Harvard is at the top
@@huckfin1598 Harvard is at the top because educated elites want it there. Ok, fine, if you can afford to do that. The argument remains cyclical because the name conveys status that others continue to feed it. Ex. Nike is a big name shoe, but that does not translate that the shoe itself is worth what it cost to make it. the market agreed to pay a $200 price tag when it costs $5 to make. Marketing is one hell of a drug. My point is. Harvard is marketing an elite experience, but its behavior reflects the ideas of a naïve 13 year old playing identity politics. To who is the onus on to determine the true value? Or are the attendants and contributors of Harvard victim to sheep/ herd mentality? Again, if Asian are putting in the tremendous amount of work to attend a school that prides itself at the elite level, then turns and abandons the actual elite performers, then, in my vision, it no longer is elite, others opinions be damn. The institution also has a burden to prove to me that it is worth my time.
@@safetythirdified I don’t see how anything you stated relates to my response. Seems like you simply had a response ready and was going to shoe horn it in regardless.
Have fun with that
@@huckfin1598 Sounds like a personal problem.
@@safetythirdified lol right back at ya
Def sounds like you have a personal problem
The assumption that black students are not up to par with their classmates is so insulting. You’re talking about Education. The material presented is new to each student and how can you make an assumption that Harvard is admitting black students who cannot keep up.Disgusting!
If we did do away with AA then no one will have any doubts if a black or under represented person graduates from ivy leagues school. They won't have doubt about themselves, their employers, and their customers will not have a doubt that they had special preferences. I think it's for the best of everyone.
it's not an assumption. It's a fact.
@@migo-migo9503 Nobody doubts that but racist people. People who get their world view from others vs evidence. Just look at our current SCOTUS today,look at which one is most qualified. You won’t know how Amazing and smart the black community is because they won’t teach our history. Understand that if it was not for many black inventors you would not be remotely capable of even making this comment on your device.
@@HGiff There are no statistics or data that makes that a fact. So maybe your definition of “fact” is whatever makes you feel good about yourself. 🤔 hmm
@@pierrethegod22 In California, before 1996, when affirmative action was still legal in UC system, black graduation rate in UCLA was significantly lower than Whites and Asians. After prop 209, fewer black students were admitted to UCLA, but their graduate rate went up.
Are elite schools really that much more difficult to graduate from?
Yes.
their elite for a reason right
@@Malignus68 tell me more.
@@HXRMLESS yes... but I don't know that that's the reason.
YES. Academic standards are much higher. And rightfully so, the students at elite schools are the best of the best, and you have to teach at the pace of the average student. It’s horrible to be at the bottom of your class no matter where you go to school. It discourages those who would’ve done well in another setting to switch programs or worse, drop out and not graduate.
This was an awesome discussion. Thank you. Also great moderating and great panel.
great civil conversation on a hot topic. p.s. they need to put some "pop filters" on those mics in the audience. puh, puh, puh....
I think we need more affirmative action. Everything has to be fair! Its not fair that the NFL gives preference to African Americans. they should employ the 20 percent rule so that we dont have to run as fast. raise the 40 yrd dash bar. gives us extra second!
Is Harvard that important? I agree that we should not only go to HBUC, when we are qualified to go to other colleges based on our skills and not our color. Why did the black guy in the end check Jason Riley, he was just stating what he was told to do?
Personality is how does one relates to others. If cannot relate then what type of doctor are you or lawyer to clients.
That black Georgetown Prof. was rebuked enough at the end, but he wants us to believe Asian Indians, who are native English speakers, have problems with class discussion?? No Effing way. What planet is he on?? Not buying it for a second!
I was surprised to see and hear that Harvard university finally tried to cover their wrong by inviting Michele Yeow to speak for them recently
Harvard has money💰💰💰💰, tons of money, to cover what they are doing or not doing! It is sad that a leading university just spent so much energy and money to just do the "window dressing" and harm the real justice!
AA has always been the privilege of Black and Brown people. People always say Black and Brown people have been oppressed the most but I call this bullshit. Asians have always been the most oppressed people in America. They just dont complain.
You’re absolutely correct.
The US government has discriminated against Asians the most in its entire history:
1. Chinese Exclusion Act. Didn’t happen to any other race. Yup. Banned from entering. A legal law. There was never a law that made all b lacks slaves. Not all slaves were b lack either.
2. Asian Exclusion Act. This banned Asian men from marrying non-Asian women. Yet another “law”. Same law which stated Asians could not become naturalized citizens. Bunch a fawkin bs
3. Locking up Japanese Americans simply for their race. Never happened to anybody else. German Americans actually committing espionage and planning sabotage. Yet not rounded up en mass. No Japanese American US citizen was ever convicted of espionage.
Asians have to behave and if they don’t there are severe repercussions.
4. Korean Americans LA Riots. Attacked for their race. Mainly by b lacks. No protection.
The systemic r acism of today with school admissions and even hiding honor merits by Asians and lost scholarships. More fawkin BS.
All it seems to do though is create a harder studying and harder working Asian American.
Isn’t this what happens with middle children or non-spoiled kids?
The US government and especially trash liberal DemocRats need to back way off and start holding people accountable. Too much coddling of b lacks and Latinos. They are capable of doing much better. Those who think otherwise are the real r acists.
Latinos still doing much better and improving. B lacks appear to be regressing. The more coddling given the worst it gets.
There are so many highly successful b lacks and in order to retain usually comes from hard work and core values. They know themselves those struggling have an uphill battle.
First things first. Stop victim mentality. Trash liberal DemocRats don’t want b lacks to succeed. That’s why they coddle and try to uplift and enable bad behavior.
Nice lie but no one forced Asians to come to the USA and if they wish to keep their heads down then don't dare step on the feet of African Americans or Native Americans!!! If Asians in the US were systematically disenfranchised, burned out, raped, and lynched for 400 years the Asians would be broken. Asians kiss up to whites, so pathetic.
@@Vieen1810 Thats like saying, no one forces Black or Brown people to stay in America. If they aint smart enough to get in prestigious universities, then its their fault. Time for AA whicu is the privilegeof Black and Brown peolle to go.
Now, as a matter of fact, Asians belong to America as native Americans are Asian and White people have played big roles in building America *Looks at the list of American presidents*.
I think we should give more medals and rewards to awesome American cops for keepinf America safe. Deport protesters back to where they came from.
@@iROChakri Obviously you are not intelligent enough to understand what I stated. Lap dogs have no brains. You claimed African Americans were not discriminated against, your statement is based on your ignorance and racism. You are a dullard. Institutional racism in the USA is white affirmative action. The Asians have been riding on affirmative action and Civil Rights that African Americans were fighting former 1810!! These laws benefited Native Americans who could vote freely in the 1960s. No one in the USA has been more abused, murdered, raped, lynched, and disenfranchised than Natives and African Americans. White destroyed dozens of Black town, even the two in Central Park. Whites committed atrocities in the 19th 20th century that are documented. To bad you are uninformed, did attend University. The Asians see themselves as the next whites, that child thinks all Asians are genius. He is are dimwitted as you, it is very laughable. The Anglo Saxons (white) need more attack dogs so they did a cattle call in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Running to the USA like insects the Irish, Scottish, Greeks, Jews, Norwegians, and Germans lost their minds after 1880 to be given Native land by the government. That is welfare and affirmative action for uneducated illiterate immigrants, that would one day be considered white as long as they destroyed Natives and African Americans. You people that came after the Civil War do not understand the USA, it's history or regions. People like you are racist, anti Civil Rights for Black people. You are not scholars, you don't have objects and art from the 17th and 18th centuries. If you don't own a private library and collection of antiquities then your status and enlightenment are not developed. Qualified African Americans and Natives are often overlooked so unqualified white men and women,could be hired. Racist see all Blacks as inferior that is why affirmative action is needed. African Americans have been in the lands that would become the USA for over 400 years, free or slave they built this country. African Americans did more for the US than you late arrivals.
I agree, they keep getting stepped on, usually by blacks and whites and they just keep chugging along.
Affirmative action, concerning the 3rd point, creates a narrative that tells the minority students "you weren't good enough to get here on your own" which is deplorable. Add in the fact that these students were unprepared and that only gets worse. I would hate to see the dropout rates because of it. Affirmative action should have been a case of providing necessary education to lift up people of any race, gender, or religion who want higher education to allow them to succeed in college, extra funding for the poor, and hard rule legislation preventing ANY form of discriminations as to student selection. The bar that should be met is entry scores -- that's it. The problem with such legislation as we have seen so far is that is promotes inequality by definition. For racism to not be a "thing" all people have to be treated equally, no matter what the color of their skin is. Many people who could succeed well at places like Harvard simply cannot hope to afford the education, due to outrageously high costs. These schools were arguably designed to be the education of future leaders, based upon income, and to keep out those who couldn't afford them. I.E. poor people didn't need to worry about a higher education, as they couldn't pay for it. These schools were often founded in classism to begin with.
Is affirmative action a FOREVER THING that discriminates one group by giving another group an advantage?
People don't go to black doctors because of the affirmative actions.
Every single person on the panel is against AA, how is this talk balanced?
It’s not supposed to be balanced. I guess the irony of that is lost on you if you are in favour of AA.
they're not against AA, they're just pro-law/pro-constitution. How is that 'against AA'?
I dont think asian americans supported AA ever.
Plaim and simple. Decision taken to give or not give a opportunigy based on skin color is discrimination, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATOON, EMPLOYMENT ETC. These affirmative actions kind of stupid laws causes contradiction and more loop holes to increase discrimination and racsim for those who want to discriminate. Its happening with genders too now. Opportunities must be based on merit, not skin color. Every race have their genea strenghts, weakness but every race also have all types of peoples with all types of strenghts and weakness. Not every occupation, every job, every place needs to have equal amount of races which is stupid. But the right people for the right place. Just like extreme feminists dont argue about why more women are not un constructions, affirmative action promoters wont argue why more blacks are in sports, becox what they are fightung for will never happen, equal percentage of every race in every place is pure nonsense. Simple and plain, equal opportunities for all, based on merit, not gender not skin color. Any other rules will create more loop holes to be abused.
Reparations or die
affirmative action is discrimination against the successful and qualified
Statistics shows that *white women benefits the most from Affirmative Action.* There are also data to show that many of the Black and Brown students from disadvantaged backgrounds who strived to get into Ivy league Institutions, score more than the white legacies and donations gifting applicants. Why are these asians not suing the school for giving their positions to those privileged, but underqualified whites instead? Why pick on those who were already marginalized out of the gate? Once again, the Black people who fought for the opportunities that allowed them to even be in such positions to attend these schools are the ones being punished in the ununited states.
Universities are one thing but government jobs create even more problems with mediocrity instead og excellence.
gov workers become mediocre because it's almost impossible to get rid of them. Why perform when your job doesn't depend on it?
The basic premise of the discussion needs to be re-examined. Why should somebody be cut out? In today's day and age, with the levels of advancement in technology, why are we still fixated on old ratios like student:teacher? Why aren't we working towards increasing class sizes? Why aren't we looking at bringing from kids into top tier universities - the argument that it dilutes the class room experience is bogus, especially when technology can do so much of the teaching already.
Successful non-discriminatory policies would imply that racial discrimination can hold people back.
The supposed need for Affirmative Action implies that race is what holds people back. How is that not racist?
This is clearly a one-sided panel pretending to have a debate. Very Strange. But typical pick a Fault illogic argument. The point is not whether AA has problems or side-effects (there are many, like everything else). The quotation is the balance of Benefits vs Cost. And you hear no benefit argument here. So how can you make the correct conclusion with just one-sided evidence?
For example, you did not hear the evidence that Harvard admits Asian at 4-5 times its population rates, well over-represented.
Unless you can definitely point the BENEFITS, so called, of AA, you can't say the is one sided panel. Besides, you're losing sight of the event. These folks here have never hidden their dislike for the program, and have largely convinced some of us based on evidence provided. So accusing them of being one-sided is pointless and ignorance on your part. If you have any counter arguments, then bring it on. That's how meaningful discussions are had. Not throwing up useless labels.
@@protectionplustv7172
That is exactly my point, there is No One in this panel who believes, right or wrong, there is benefits to AA. But we do know there are lots people believe that, Right or Wrong, and defend AA. You should invite them here and debate with these guys who are against it.
This is by definition Called One-Sided Panel, like I pointed out before. Your point that this One-Side is actually the Right Side is irrelevant to my Argument. For a Real Debate, which side is Right should come out of Debate itself, not by the organizer. This is the whole point of an Open and Free society, that no one should control the Debate outcome.
It’s not supposed to be a debate. It’s people doing work in this area and sharing their expertise. It’s an expert panel, not a debate panel. Secondly, idk what kind of cost-benefit analysis you’re running, but it doesn’t shake out on the benefit side of the ledger no matter how you slice it. Lastly, your fact about Asian acceptance rates is so laughably irrelevant, and shows you don’t understand how numbers work. Only about half of all Asians qualified (by objective metrics) to attend Harvard actually get in, while those (of other races - Latino, Black, Native American) who are not qualified get in. It doesn’t matter that Asians are over represented compared to their population, but it very much matters that they are systematically discriminated against to the point where roughly half of all those who should get in, don’t. That’s an injustice of epic proportions.
@Benjamin
Asian is currently 4x its population ratio in Harvard. And you said it should be 8x, hence the discrimination. I, as an Asian, do not believe Aisan kids are 8x better than other groups.
Your root problem is the belief that students that Harvard rejected are not qualified for Harvard. Harvard said many time, it could take 10x more qualified students easily. It rejects many perfect SAT and straight A students very year. It tries very hard to form a very diverse student body for the benefit of the student education. So it does not judge kids by testing score only. That is why there are all kinds athletes, kids from all US States, from kids many different foreign countries, and many different kids like dancers, bands, writers, singers etc.
Of course there are also kids of donors and alumni etc.
By the way, Harvard does not only prepare kids to be scientist. It also education the next generation of leaders for communities, government and other organizations. So it is nature for it to admit Black kids for the black communities, Latino kids for Latino communities etc.
Your complaint makes no sense when the panel was never framed as a debate. In any case the question here should be when Asian Americans on average spend 3x the time studying relative to their peers (based on information presented in the panel), whether that warrants their over-representation. In other words, should we as a society reward hardwork and merit or skin color?
was it asian americans who were twerking on cars in chicago or was it another race?
The personality harvard looks for..lol
That 20 points sounds like nonsense without evidence. Yet those 20 points that she said went to those students failed to also state that those black students were more than qualified than most of those who had basics required to attend the uni. Tell the truth.
Basically its picking on people telling them theyre not as smart as others because of their parents. It's like making fun of someone because of their weight or acne or being poor or wearing past season clothes or the neighborhood someone lives in whether they live in apartment or house what zip code they live in
If a house is detached or they hire a gardener or they shop at JC Penneys instead of Neiman Marcus where their parents drive a Volvo a Toyota or a Porsche or a pickup truck what their parents do for a living
This panelist from Yale was not supposed to not grade Asian students for not participating because they don't participate
Maybe we can see why Harvard wanted to keep the Jewish students out if they had that same attitude as the person in the green outfit
A black mark against ivy league schools that went down
It is exasperating to be with students who don't participate
Kenny got his ideas from who and where?
A "caricature"? Does that include the moderator?
We need to make up for the years that white Americans were not given access to these schools. I think a financial disbursement would be suitable. We could issue a reparation! We could make it a huge event .So they get theirs we get ours.
Just this conversation has me not wanting my Black child anywhere near Harvard with all these generalizations flying around about people. I wonder can these people possibly be happy ? Life is much to short to be involved in pretentiousness and just unnecessary stuff. And what does it get you a political job in DC. Thanks but no Thanks.
AA is not an issue in Ivy League admissions. The point of AA is NOT to just pick a random black kid and add them to the school to meet a quota. This is what Asian Americans are mad about and this is precisely why their lawsuit will fail:
Say a black student applies to Harvard with a 90% on the SAT/ACT, a 4.0 GPA, extra curricular, and actually has a personality.
Say a Chinese American student applies to Harvard with a 95% on the SAT/ACT, a 4.0 GPA, extra curricular, and actually has a personality.
Men like Xu claims that Harvard should clearly choose the Chinese American applicant over the black applicant because the Chinese American applicant had a higher grade on the SAT/ACT and if they do not choose the Chinese American applicant but choose the black applicant instead, it's because of Affirmative Action and the black student doesn't deserve that spot.
Unfortunately, that's not how admissions works. IVY league schools have not now or EVER admitted students based *solely* on academic achievement. It's only ONE factor. The interview is another, wanting a diverse student body is another, keeping legacy families coming back is another, etc. It's never been solely based on academics.
Yet, Asian Americans find it easier to target Black students because they know for a fact they won't win if they try to target Harvard admitting legacies.
What's even more telling about their obvious racist attitudes towards black students is the fact that they NEVER question the merit of legacies. They NEVER question if white legacy students deserve to be there or are "qualified" based on their perceived academic standards. But those legacies are white kids....so of course they get a pass. Of course.
It's far easier to claim that black applicants do not meet the base level academic level to be worthy of a Harvard admission. It's far easier to just assume that the black applicants do not have the grades or SAT scores to even be in the running with Asian students.
Their entire lawsuit is based solely on conjecture. Read the lawsuit. It assumes black mediocracy. It assumes that Harvard admissions is based on who had better SAT scores and GPA's. It's assuming a whole lot actually.
It's suing Harvard as if Harvard has committed a crime. As if there is a law that stipulates that applicants must be ranked in Admissions based solely on their SAT/ACT and GPA and admitted at a cut off point.
These Asian Americans really want the U.S college admissions process to mimic the way it's done in Asian countries. We are not China...we are not South Korea. We DO NOT do things that way here and never have.
But if you are making the argument that we should do things that way....then what are you going to do when Harvard is 99% Asian but only 1% can afford to pay Harvard? Endowments make it possible for Harvard to admit students on scholarship. But if all the white legacy students are no longer admitted because they didn't make the cut....endowments go away.
A Harvard education shouldn't be cheapened by merit only admissions. That's un-American.
You’re a complete joke and don’t even provide a valid example.
The black student has a much lower GPA and much lower SAT vs the Asian American applicant. This has already been proven out.
What has also been proven is that the Asian American is graded much lower in simple things like personality since it’s a simple excuse to give to basically discriminate.
When meeting the rejected applicant there are no issues and it’s already proven also that in college b lacks have more behavior and violence issues.
The drop out rate is much higher also for b lacks.
And you shouldn’t have to worry about 99% Asians because if one raises the expectations for b lacks or anybody then they are more than capable of achieving.
Instead of skin color better to go off of income. The whole problem with AA is that rich under achieving b lacks get into Harvard vs poor Asian Americans.
AA is r acist anyhow. MLK even said just base off of merit not skin color. Why you want this shows your inherit nature of r acism.
Let’s just treat each other equal or if we want those who are poor to have some opportunity then ok.
It’s so funny to me that we’ve come to a point where asking for equal treatment irregardless of race is now apparently racist. These Asian Americans are frankly closer to MLK’s vision for society than you are.
Legacy admissions has its own issues, but legacy admissions does not discriminate on the basis of race. Conflating legacy with AA is frankly intellectually dishonest.
In fact, the black students’ credentials are way lower than you portray.
You can spin if they just fall short a little bit, but you can’t spin when you’re way below.
After all, it is unconstitutional to make any decision base on skin color. That’s precisely the RACIST AA try to correct.
Meh. Wrong. If all academic scores are equal, race becomes the deciding factor. And that’s wrong no matter what. Racial discrimination is wrong. No matter what. So please. Just stop. All that hot air to say that blacks should be given preference based on their skin color. Gtfo with that 😂
Well said
I was looking at my parents high school. Annual -1950 and noticed that there quarter more females than males-so it seems like the issues involved will never be repaired
I wondered what his staffing looks like in his law office?
The last comment could have been saved. The last guy attempting to get browny points from whom ever.
I am 70 year old if i need to walkdown the street and go to a professional anyone should be able to so
America always put personality skills first. I am qualified for the job but had little or no personality skills so I didn’t get the job. I have known people who could barely read and/or write and you couldn’t tell because they had all the personality skills in the world and they ended up doing even better than others because of their personality. I, on the other hand always had low paid jobs because of it. So, are you saying that America should hire people even with no personality skills. I don’t know………if they’ll change that for one group of people. Good luck. I am not Asian.
Affirmative Action for African Americans is like actively leaving someone bedbound/deconditioned then at college-bound age, finally giving them crutches to go run a marathon for the rest of his/her life. It‘s very inhumane. They belong in rehab until the root cause is addressed which is inadequate primary/formative education.
Here's a true life example of the older race problem in employment that never went away. A Black man applies for a skilled position as a service technician. He meets all education and experience requirements of the position. All the applicants must take a competitive examination on ELECTROMECHANICAL TECHNOLOGY. The Black man scores 97% on the test to make the number one highest score. THREE white males with LOWER test scores are hired. The Black man who made the top test score was NOT hired! Nothing has really changed for Black Americans but a few visible race tokens on display. Do you see the problem?
@@willharriman1881 You are referring to employer affirmative action. The more common reality we are faced nowadays is white applicants scoring 97th percentile and preferential treatment of black applicants scoring 85th percentile. Again, I’m not saying the reverse never happens.
@@ckrgksdkrak You are somewhat confused! The original race problem in the white dominated USA system is that whites did not want any honest, fair competition from Black Americans! In fact, most employment race discrimination today is specifically defined by Black Americans with concrete SUPERIOR qualifications being passed over in favor of LESS QUALIFIED whites! Historically, many Black Americans graduated from historical Black colleges only to find they were relegated to low level jobs like bathroom attendants and janitors. There are many documented cases where highly capable Blacks were called to TRAIN unqualified whites who would later be promoted above the capable Blacks who trained them! WHAT? You actually THOUGHT only whites could possess superior skills and knowledge? If so, you've been totally brainwashed! Even today, there are Blacks with engineering degrees who couldn't get jobs in engineering! But, the mainstream media only pushes the image of gangsta rap chatacters, so people like YOU think it's Black culture!
@@ckrgksdkrakNo most employers don’t have test scores as a criteria. Second, you totally ignore the fact that white pseudoscience created this whole mess. Blacks were and have always been deemed less intelligent than everyone else. The same pseudoscience allow a model minority to attack black people who have always been excluded from employment and colleges James Meredith is one classic example. He was shot and needed the National Guard. This Asian representative will never go through anything remotely like that and he graduated on top of it. So that standardized inferior troupe is dead.
that's not the root cause either! It's been proven many times over. The root cause is a system what 'sells' the idea of college that is not in the interest of the 'student'. Some people just don't belong in a college/university, and no, that's not a racist statement: you need to see how successful people are from trade schools. Why 'force' people to become book smart when they are not so inclined when they can learn a trade that suits them much better, and keep them out of debt?
In today's environment, the idea of a 'college degree' is for the benefit of those who take the payments, not those who are told they need a college degree to get anywhere in life. THAT is the problem.
Ahhh... Good ol' Affirmative Action AKA modern-day reparations AKA legal discrimination.
It’s interesting that this black woman dismiss the hard work put in by Asians and Jews who she equate to having had core values that made them successful.
news for u- it’s more about hard work. Not all Asians and Jews are part of the model minority, a myth; I’m an Asian who through MY choices are not as successful as other Asians. I’m responsible.
IT’s cultural. Blacks as a whole don’t have that culture. Those that do are successful and tend to be conservatives.
Woke liberal blacks want to dismiss the responsibility of what it takes to be successful. Blacks as a whole need to own that and break the chains of victim mentality.
How do you know blacks as a whole don't have that culture? And which blacks are you speaking of?
Amazing post
Harvard is looking for other characteristics and qualifications in its prospective student body. There are plenty of black and Hispanic students who deserve to be at harvard. Its not all about points to harvard. Punctuation is part of the SAT you are telling us that punctuation is a compoment in meritocracy
if you happened to be Asian which by the way incompased an entire continent make this whole argument nonsensical and up to insulting about the issues they put in display. I couldn't help notice that was not a real debate on the issues rather than a long list of Why are they getting this and am not.
All i hear is that black students don't belong at pwi but hbcu 😂
Ah, one year later, how did this help Asians?
Go on guys. Tell us. Show us the figures.
Maybe everyone should start out on the same level. MIT stopped grading freshman year because a female chinese burned the dorm room. College isnt supposed to be such a pressure cooker people are killing themselves once they 'get in'. I hear asian students all over uc Berkeley campus talking nonstop about getting in. I heard some optometry students expressing frustration over missing one or two points rather than discussing the actual test question. Optometry is dispensing glasses not opthamology where there is subtlety involved. This grade grubbing obsession with the point of proving you are better than someone else is intended to hurt someone's feelings and hope they fail drop out and fall through the cracks.
What medication are you on?
Affirmative action = good.
If black people are 20% of the population in America, then there will be a LOT of cuts in basketball, rap, etc… let’s see if people still support affirmative action.
@@emryadora you are missing the point. Affirmative action brought to the logical end (I.e. not limited to only college) showcases the extreme idiotic nature of the idea. The only reason anyone would favor affirmative action is because there happens to be 1 instance that you can agree but you become logically inconsistent when it’s placed in other areas.
US News & World Reports people sure obsess with its ranking system
do south asians face the same situation as east asians?
Why you didn't say nothing about the Hispanics
Kenny are you happy with yourself hearing this about Jews since you thought it was just about black people? I guessed you left this bit out deliberately.
wow great discussion open and frank and balanced thanks 💓