Destiny: How Should Exotic Weapons Thorn and Bad Juju Be Buffed?
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Let's just say that Thorn and Bad Juju aren't exactly the strongest weapons right now. A pretty frequent question I get is how I think they should be buffed...so let's talk about it.
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Little did young datto know that after the buff thorn would be crazy OP
I'm surprised he hasn't taken this video down
Thorn:
1.5 - 2X current reload speed
7-8 rounds
Damage over time: either double what it does now or stackable. Double if it's going to keep that same mechanic. Stackable if each shot landed multiplies the lingering damage. Shot 1 = 1X lingering, 2 = 1.25, 3= 1.50 and so on.
Bad Juju:
Clip increased to 21 - 24 shots
Impact on par with other pulse rifles
A slight default increase to stability or a perk option to significantly reduce recoil
Send It to Bungie. It's perfect :D
***** Void damage would be appropriate
I think the debuff on thorn should be a flat % of total ammount of hp (so if you had 200 hp it would do 10 say weather ur half dead or not) this would make it nice on bullet spong bosses but yh a mag increase and reload is a must all over HC have 10+ round with far better reload!!
Juju needs a mag the size of red death! Recoil reduction perk, and a impact buff at lest to even make it worth using!! Then they need to rework pluse rifles all together as they suck balls
That intro. I've always wanted someone to make a straightforward video like that. Thank you for that.
Must've been a nice time when Thorn wasn't overpowered
Phoenix Gogeta naw man thorn took the vex spot than later auto rifles and shotguns
Feels
Ehhh maybe I mean auto rifles were also broken if bungie new how to actually balance their own multiplayer mode instead of just nerfing things to be completely useless but I guess that's the dream
oI0lO\SPARTAN/Ol0Io if you "knew" how to spell
I lost it at the begining LMAO
Sometimes I come back to this video just to laugh at it
Oh the days...
Thorn - Magazine buff or Reload speed buff
Bad JuJu- Replace the Hipfire upgrade for Zen Moment (Damage increases stability) or Perfect Balance (Increased stability)
Super Good Advice- Either make the gun have much higher damage or increase the stability
Suros Regime- NERF NERF NERF NERF
Thorn and Bad Juju aren't the only exotics that need buffed. Red Death, Super Good Advice, Monte Carlo, and Hard Light all need buffs especially in PVE.
- Thorn should get a 12ish round mag as it's buff. If legendary hand cannons can have 12-ish round mags with comparable stats and recoil, then the exotic Thorn should too.
- Bad Juju should get a HUGE impact buff and a 30-ish round mag IMO, any less and it's still not worth an exotic slot.
- Super Good Advice should get a significant stability buff, make it's "almost all shots that miss return to mag" work better, and get a slight impact buff.
- Red Death should get a huge rate of fire buff... it just shoots far too slow currently.
- Monte Carlo and Hard Light should get a slight stability buff and a significant damage buff, especially in PVE
anybody watching this in 2.0.2?
yo
Yeah... Buff bad juju, they said
yeah this is hilarious lmao.
Back in the day....can't believe I'm feeling nostalgia for Destiny already
You're doing a great job with this channel. Keep it up, young man. Seriously. Thumbs up
sure bud. Buff that.... but then nerf the damned suros regime. Everybody has it now. Not like they earned it.
***** funny you should say that. Check out the video I uploaded today. Just skip all the way to the end. I am frustrated with these random crucible drops.
Danny Saiz shameless plug
I watched that video and yeah that was a load of horse crap
David Pineapple Yes... shameless. Then I'll have 2 views. Javier and my mom.
If buying a gun with your strange coins isn't earning it, then what is getting a gun out of a randomized drop or engram? For instance, if someone gets a Vex Mythoclast from beating the hard mode raid, did they really earn it? I've seen people get Vex Mythoclast their first time trying the hard mode raid where they got into an Atheon checkpoint and had someone push Atheon off for them, where I've had 9 near full playthroughs of Hard Mode and still don't have a Mythoclast(or any exotic I didn't already buy from Xur, and that includes 11 Nightfalls and 11 Normal raids).
The only time you can say you truly EARNED an exotic gun in Destiny is if you completed an exotic bounty for the gun.
My main primary is the Thorn for PvP and it's a phenomenal weapon. It takes time to adapt to this weapon. When used properly I was able to demolish my previous PvP points records and even reach over 8000 points! Im going to describe what makes the Thorn very strong, but also why it seems underpowered/ room for improvement, and also tips for using it.
Two headshots = kill, and Three body shots = kill. It also has a FASTER firing rate than other hand cannons, which is huge. The Last Word and the Thorn both share a unique PvP niche. They may run out of bullets/ don't have many, but they GREATLY excel at winning 1v1 battles versus other weapons. Other weapons, such as the Suros Regime, may be better weapons overall but these two weapons excel at very quickly killing your opponent.
It seems underpowered because of it's mediocre magazine size, and its painfully slow reload. Both of those together on one weapon seems like a recipe for disaster. I wish to see at least 8 shots in the magazine, and a faster reload in its upcoming patch. A faster tick on the poison and/or making the poison actually stack would be great but not totally necessary. I would love to see something else added to this weapon so that it has a use in PvE as well, and the first step towards that would be a larger magazine.
The Thorn is a weapon that simply is not for everyone, as it takes a lot of skill to use. Coming from a competitive Halo background of many years, the challenge of this weapon is also incredibly rewarding and like no other gun out there. Some tips I can offer you is use the third perk for each column (I believe it's aggressive balistics and perfect balance). I've tested it extensively and I feel like that's the best loadout for the weapon since it suffers from a lack of stability.
A huge tip is to practice instinctively knowing exactly where the green dot on the 'scope' is. Practice in PvP but also in PvE. This is huge because every single shot hitting its mark is life and death for a Thorn user. Keep practicing and developing your muscle memory, but also shooting the gun at its maximum firing rate while remaining accurate. In the end, you'll become not only an accurate shooter, but a fast one that's dropping MULTIPLE people in a single clip. Training in PvE in an area where you can chain headshots on Fallen helps a lot. Practice fosters confidence, and confidence leads to greater performance.
Completely agree with you on that one thorn is my top pop gun but it's also situational only use it with my warlock using sunsinger
I couldn't agree more. I have a Suros, Shadow Price, Monte Carlo, and Last Word, yet my go to weapon is Thorn. Its more challenging but killing with it is so satisfying.
Hi Datto, great video! I had a random thought. I think it would be FUN, but I'm not sure the balance would be good.
For the Thorn, what if it was made to be more like a sniper rifle (kind of like the Mythoclast is a primary fusion rifle)! Keep its form factor as a primary pistol, but when aiming down the sites, you get increased zoom, increased range, increased base damage, and increased DOT.
Just an idea. I doubt Bungie is considering anything so drastic as that kind of a change, but I think it sounds fun.
Thorn and Bad Juju are not even as terrible as Super Good Advice, I hate being harsh to the poor weapon (because the weapon actually is alive and talks) but is almost useless.
personally i think:
-bad juju's 'string of curses' perk, should be the very first one it unlocks, making the weapon usable from the get-go
-for a second perk, it should be a new ability called 'pestilence', where if a player gets a critical kill, the enemy explodes (green explosion) and all enemies in the vicinity are effected with a DOT effect similar to thorn, hence adding to its 'curse' theme.
-it should have a reload similar to hard-light (being that it just pull out the magazine and push it back in, without the chamber reload animation, hence speeding up reload)
-finally, it should have just a minor impact boost, nothing drastic, just to make it a bit better
as for thorn:
-simply needs a ammo increase (8 is perfect)
-DOT effect needs to be more powerful (esspecially in PvE), and i like the stacking effect you suggested
-a MUCH faster reload speed (its not even funny as to how bad it is)
Thank you for doing this video. I recently got bad juju and was super excited to have it and use it and then I was extremely disappointed when I started using it. Hopefully it will get better.
I never used Badjuju (Im trying to earn it via exotic bounty) but I can see why people are upset about it. I say up its damage somewhere between 3-6%, give it a magazine of 18 (I agree with that opinion), and give it a special upgrade. Now about this "special upgrade"... It should be an upgrade where it has a damage bonus against elemental shields. It would give the Badjuju a unique power to take down a shield so it can start doing some damage to the actual enemy. If that idea is too op, boost its stability up to almost filled.
Void Damage cuz Fuck the Vex
lol your not the only one who hates Axis minotaurs
Yeah, Im sitting here trying to beat the raid and ... 2 shotted by fuckin Axis Minotars
I actually really like Thorn. By merit of me just being a Gunslinger Hunter with Chain of Woe, I have phenomenal reload speed, plus armor that allows me to reload even faster. Thorn is very much a Hunter's weapon. Any other class tries to use it... you're gonna have a bad time.
i agree i use thorn on my hunter and have good games but with a titan or warlock its just reloading for most of the game
I use Thorn pretty exclusively. I got to say that the poison effect needs to ideally be almost twice the potency. Also the reload speed needs to be greatly increased. When I first got it I thought it wasn't too bad but then realised my armour was greatly increasing it. When I switched it to another character it was painfully slow.
I don't want the ammo count to increase. I enjoy the patient playstlye which differentiate it from the other cannons.
Also just so you know the poison doesn't refresh with each shot. The poison will run from the first shot and only refreshes once the initial cycle has finished, meaning if you don't want a target to recover you need your final shot to also be the one that initiates poison last so the damage continues as you reload.
As to Bad Juju. I have it maxed out. The key to this and all pulse rifles is to max its stability, which is fairly easy with its options, so that all the following shots land closer to the initial bullet. Once you have the damaged maxed its far easier to get the initial kill and then continue the string of curses. The hipfire bonus I believe is for the (I assume) 1.5x sight which makes it hard to track closer targets. It at least gives you the option as well as leaves the radar open.
Again I would personally give it a bonus to its damage increase with the curses. Leaving the ammo the same for the reasons you stated but also allowing you to steamroll much easier.
I agree. When I get shot by Thorn I barely notice the damage over time it does. I just notice that my screen has a weird green tint for a second or two! lol
Without hand cannon reload gloves the Thorn is painful to reload.
Good points all around. I have both these two bounties in my bounty list, but I'm not Actively attempting to complete them because until they get patched, I don't see the rush.
On the other hand, I am Most happy with my Invective shotgun which I just finished upgrading. It has saved my bacon in many a close encounter and having unlimited ammo due to it's Invective upgrade, is one hell of a perk!
"I don't know. "
I love your style Datto.
I'm part of a clan on Bnet called Thorny Guardians. We all love Thorn and many of us can't wait for the buff. It really does need a few tweaks.
You got a knee slap outta me at the beginning there Datto!
The thought i had for bad juju, although its kinda stupid, is what if bungie coded it to where on boss level enemies, like raids and public events, since they take so long to kill instead of having to kill something for it to auto reload it had, say, like a 40/50% chance of auto reloading but when not attacking a boss type enemy the regular string of curses still aplies
That's actually not too bad at all...
Decent suggestion
I think that is a very good idea:)
I have a better idea: when firing at a boss with bad juju it automatically kills the boss so you can auto-reload. That is totally not op, right? xD
Joseph Cress 11/10 best buff
Both Bad juju and Thorn are good looking weapons and it´s sad that they are not better.
Another thing to note about Bad Juju is that I think when string of curses goes into effect it doesn't consume ammo.
Can we all just notice the design of these weapons for the good side of having them? Just look at Bad JuJu's green light from the barrel reflecting from your armor and onto the spine of the bird! Then Thorn when you ADS an exclamation point pops up. The design level for these exotics: badass!
Yes! Zen Moment for Bad Juju seems like such a perfect match! Totally agree with that.
Please keep the humor up, i was dying in the beginning
Change Bad Juju to something like "20% chance to refill ammunition when dealing damage" rather than the "on kill."
Increase thorn's reload speed and make additional applications of the dot extend its duration in pve. Also fix the bug of it removing ignite / blocking ignite's application.
Hey Datto. Love your videos, they are very useful. But what about the part after the maze. The jump puzzle. I don't know whether you forgot to make one or thought it was too simple and easy to make one about it. I was just wondering.
If they keep the reload speed for Thorn, I'd just say increase the clip to 8. For Bad Juju, you're right. Maybe incrase the impact or clip by 3, but raise the recoil a bit.
I'm about to work on my second Thorn bounty today... still haven't upgraded my first, really waiting for the buff.
For me, it needs a 8-12 clip, more impact or super fast reloading. For now, my random drop Devil You Know does the trick!
I hope they buff Super Bad Advice gets a buff as well. For maybe a slight impact boost. A decent stability boost. And perhaps the ability to have bullets ricochet? Also, hand cannons with a high impact such as Timur's lash, need to be just high enough for a two shot headshot. And throwing knives to the head with no additional overshields should be a one hit kill as well (critical hit multiplier buff). For PvP.
Dude that string of curses is gonna give my OCD a nightmare, I reload a lot and not seeing it reload freaks me out hahaha
Good, I'm not the only one. I was getting very irritated watching him use it.
oh boy what did you start datto
So, I was looking through the comments, and Thorn and Bad Juju were buffed (almost the exact way that was said in this video) and Suros Regime (comments) was nerfed. I, personally, was happy when i realized my Bad Juju had 24 rounds in the clip. The gun felt like it went from 3/10 to a 7/10 without string of curses.
My thoughts on Bad Juju, if you buff clip size or damage and change the 'infinite ammo' perk to only happen sometimes, like it has a chance to refresh ammo. For me the only good thing about Bad Juju is the way it looks.
♡♡ Ok i know this video was posted on Oct 27th and I've read some of the recent valid comments. So my comment might be later news by now, but i already wrote it lol :
I can only speak on Thorn, not Bad Juju yet. I use it in a specific way, minimizing its weaknesses and holding on to its strengths. It's great on high health PvE targets and players in the Crucible (which is mainly what the context of this comment will be). The amount of 2-shots possible in a single Crucible match is not something to underestimate (3 shots will put down a foe quickly as well, useful if they are running away or charging you and you'd rather hit 3 body shots than miss 1 headshot). It's a calculating weapon, requiring a plan of action before engagements. If you are caught in a gunfight and have to reload, well, you had to miss 3 kills (or 2) before that could happen. You have to account for the drawbacks of this weapon and embrace its already existing potential. Let me put it this way...with Surge or Force Barrier or Chain of Woe counter-acting the slow reload...and if you don't miss...the other team will take notice. This gun also picks off targets (2 quick shots remember?) at a surprising range, even without the range upgrade. (With the stability upgrade it is not difficult to land 2 headshots). I don't know if i would make this gun stronger (stat-wise) than what it has shown itself to be in the Crucible (not related to the PvE DoT stacking suggestion). Anyone who knows someone using it effectively, knows. I won't lie, it's one of my strongest tools especially for PvP. I tend to use it with the mindset of a supporting role. You won't see me being too aggressive with this weapon...I'll switch to Invective midgame for that. I honestly like to use it like a Thorn, and until the other team consciously deals with it, i will 2-3 shot my way to the top. You can greatly manipulate where an enemy player's attention is focused and their level of concentration (if you can land 1 pot shot on some semi-distant semi-aware foe and take no damage, you are already making them concentrate more than you), making supporting roles more effective. You won't kill the entire team in 1 clip with Thorn (although you can take down 3 if you must); it's more like you pick them off methodically until they realize you are at the top of your team. Getting assists with this weapon is another easy advantage (more points for your team). Also is the fact that Thorn and all Damage over Time components indirectly lower the affected player's Recovery stat by extending the duration that they are sustaining damage so that they can't recover until they aren't affected anymore, if you think about it like that. There's yet more ways to make this gun increasingly relevant to the other team (class setup/chosen class abilites), but those 'secrets' are for them to learn in game as they face it.
I think Thorn fits its role. It's a big part of the reason i could challenge Lvl 30 Guardians yesterday and prevail despite it being the Iron Banner. It took me then 3 headshots to punch through the Lvl Gap (27 vs 30) but it was done nevertheless. Thorn helped minimize that gap many times yesterday, a testament to its potential and its power.
Do i use it in every situation? No, i switch midgame to what is called for. So I believe it's a supporting Hand Cannon.
♤♧ ☆ ♧♤
I loved Thorn from the moment I saw it's concept art. I like the stacking DOT idea though.
A slight buff to the impact and magazine size of the Bad Juju would be good. It's sort of in a hard place with its ability, like you said. Personally, I think a lighting fast reload would also be good. It would make the small magazine a non-issue since you'll be ready to go just in case you don't finish the enemy off.
A really fast reload would make string of curses kinda pointless, they should make bad juju low fire rate high impact and increase magazine to 18 or 21 so gun rewards precision even more. They need to fix pulse rifles as a whole when it comes to recoil though.
Hey Datto do you think pocket infinity could use a slight buff? Maybe make the magazine have 4 or 5 shots instead of 3 or have the pocket infinity upgrade give it 8 bullets again but not have a chance to return bullets directly to the magazine?
They need to nerf Fusion Rifles in PvP or remove them completely from PvP. Way too overpowered
Ryan Harting Personally, I think they need to find a way to balance both. I'm not a fan of anything that can one shot a person...especially something like a shotgun when all the maps are primarily CQB environments. To replace these I think they need to add in assassination animations to the same effect as Halo and BF. Not only because they look awesome (although this would be great...) but because it trades off the perk of getting an instant kill on someone you are able to catch unaware with leaving you vulnerable for a few seconds so you have to consider whether or not it is a good thing to use.
▓TacoTech239▓
well...TECHNICALLY....they actually fire multiple projectiles...but only one SHOT....so shut up and take your useless comments elsewhere, you know what he means.
tgjaedan
i think both need a nerf...but i also think that both should be able to 1 shot if the shot is landed perfectly...like, very close shotgun shots need to be 1 hit kills...or whats the point? and fusion rifles should be 1 hit kills as well...maybe slower charge times and/or less range...but they need to be 1 hit kills to stand a chance against auto-rifles
▓TacoTech239▓ thing is this isn't difficult to do and doesn't require any kind of precision damage and is effective at a longer range than shotguns. The point I was making is that I don't feel any weapon type should 'one shot' without really having to really aim or anything skill based. I can't say I know the answer...really isn't realistic to say 'get rid of shotguns!' and there isn't a lot of point to them if they aren't dramatically better at close range. But, short of supers, I don't think anything should be able to one shot.
Ryan Harting Well, that is honestly just an opinion from person to person. I do agree with you that, with current mechanics, what is the point if not a one shot? I'd rather see them add in more variety of weapon effects. Maybe a stagger effect from shotguns and a recharge debuff to fusion rifles. These aren't well thought out ideas...just off the cuff. But there are options to make weapons viable outside of strictly how much damage they do at what range. Especially with the current state of PvP where most of the combat takes place at fairly close range.
Are you going to do another stream where you help people get through thorns bounty? Because that would be amazing
I run thorn on my hunter with gunslinger sub class. Activate "chain of woe" and "gunslinger trance" for faster reloads and more stability when doing critical
start of your video made my day man ;)
You have to see what the thorn is like now in trials of Osiris
Virge King at the start of the video Datto says that thorn kills in two headshot and three body shot in pvp. Nothing as change really.... I think its just because AR got supa nerf to the ground that Handcannon shine so much now.
How to buff thorn: You don't.
How to buff Thorn: nerf it to the ground
Lol that's what people who didn't have then gun when it was bad in year 1 say
+Destinygamer4567 the however I do agree buff was a little much
how to buff thorn: make it 0 damage and 0 burn damage
no
it has infinite ammo but when ever you shoot, it makes you and your fireteam die at the same time
they should add the upgrade for whenever you get a kill it adds ammo to the magazine, i think they should add that to fix the thorns reload times
Interesting idea, I like it
Conor Cronin and bad juju should have impact like Thorn :D yay :D
hi boom and conor :D
hi
***** oh :(
Datto make sure to stream the raid today we wanna see !
a friend of mine and I were talking about how they could be buffed and he came up with ( in my opinion) the perfect solution. switch bad jujus effects with thorn and leave thorn as is. and boom thorn become a pretty great gun. and put the DOT effect of thorn on bad juju and maybe upgrade the ammo or have an upgrade ammo thing for it and then boon bad juju becomes good. but the DOT effect would have to do a little more damage in PVE than in PVP, hell maybe make it stack up 1 or 2 times in PVE. just an idea
I came up with something quite similar for the Thorn. They should decrease it's impact but increase the damage over time effect just a little and add another bonus to it that brings ammo to your clip when a target is killed by the dot. Or killing an enemy with the dot could significantly reduce the reloadtime altogether.
Bad Juju on the other hand just needs a slightly larger clip. 21 - 24 rounds and it would be a really good gun.
But I wouldn't increase it's damage. Bad Juju is supposed to be a minion killer not a weapon to be used against boss level enemies. And in that segment the damage it deals is actually pretty ok. I think increasing the magazin size wouldn't hurt because the parts of the game that you can solo are not that hard to begin with so it wouldn't hurt any balance there.
What about a tighter shot on BJJ? AS well as a Damage buff???
I totally agree with everything in this video. I have bad juju but I refuse to use it because my legendary scout rifle, I think is just overall better In every way. In PVE my bad juju does 77 damage with no crit but when it crits it just pretty hard with 245 damage. I think they need to just buff the over all Raw damage. Anyways love the video an the channel, keep up the good work bro!!!!
Thorn is a pretty good Hand Cannon in the Crucible. However, that only happens once you get the MoD Dot upgrade, until then its a tough HC to use. After that I love it and I think the only other HCs that beat it are TLW or Hawkmoon. I really like the dot tick since I can see where the enemy is if they start to hide. Three body shots or two headshots are good enough for a kill. Honestly though, I see increasing the number of shots as a nerf at the same time. With the last shot getting increased damage you can get away with 1 headshot and 1 bodyshot. Ideally, I would like to have the reload speed increased and maybe the DOT changed so that it resets each shot rather than stack (and apply in PVP as well)
For Thorn, how about this: precision kills instantly loads (or returns, meaning you get the ammo *back*?) one round to the magazine?
I really wish bungie would at least increase the impact rating on no land beyond. And the bolt action animation changed to were your character doesn't move the gun away from where you are aiming. That would make it a great gun.
I think the main problem with Bad Juju is the recoil, it make it far harder to use compared to the strangers rifle. Bring the recoil down and buff the impact and you'll have a pretty solid weapon IMO. The damage seems bad because quite often only 1 or 2 of the shots actually hit because of the recoil. Swap the hip fire bonus for some impact or recoil bonus and it'll be much better.
I got Thorn at the weekend and I'm loving it, though I've yet to unlock the poison aspect. I like the idea of the DoT stacking, though would need to be in a sensible manner. I think there would need to be a cap on the number of stacks as well - say 5. I'd quite like the idea of a damage version of a WoW Druid's Lifebloom. It stacks, but when the stacks run out there is a small explosion. That would then justify the reload time and small magazine (assuming it was fairly well balanced etc)
Easy fix for both, thorn just add quicker reload, juju add double the impact.
I think the Bad Juju should have quite high impact to start with considering it is aesthetically a Scout Rifle.
Yeah, Thorn's damage is already fine. MAYBE they can add a few more rounds to the clip, but the reload is a must. Bad Juju definitely needs a damage buff, I don't care what Datto says. The entire point of Exotic weapons are to be ridiculous, after all.
ReaperGrimm5594 Thorn should be 8 rounds at most and about double the speed of its current reload. that should bring it in line with some of the other hand cannons.
Steve O. I agree, it should have the highest impact or round about that of all Pulse Rifles, its 15 round mag and string of curses perk seem balanced but it lacks the ability to kill anyone with a shield in that 15 rounds. its damage is ok, ive been testing it and once the shield is gone it can clean up easily in 15 shots if they are mostly crits. this weapon seems to have the tightest burst spread of all pulse rifles which is great for headshots. it reminds me of the old days when I played Modern Warfare 2 and the Famas.
Steve O. that is the stupidest thing i have ever hear.
make it do lots of damage because it looks like it should? even though it's a pulse rifle.... okay.
Thorn isn't so bad on a gunslinger as has been mentioned. but so many people have been suggesting to increase its capacity, which in effect, completely negates the last round bonus. (one in every 12 rounds getting a bonus vs 1 in every 6) consider though, increasing the potency of the last shot and the damage over time, while reducing the capacity slightly, and drastically increasing reload speeds. ( tl;dr, +last shot, +DoT, -mag cap, ++reload speed) So one in every say 3-4 shots, deals 150% of usual damage rather than 125% (or whatever it is.) the damage over time effect hits harder, (and faster? it's a bit slow to tick), you have to reload a little more often, but if we up reload speed, it won't hobble it much, if at all.
Bad Juju was my first exotic, and i still use it as a main weapon unless i'm raiding, then i switch to Atheons Epilogue, i've never had problems with it in anything but the raid, (trying to kill oracles with it is a nightmare)
I think the most viable buff for the Juju Bean is to change the pointless hip-fire perk into a reload perk (maybe 30% increase or something). And then maybe turn the clip size into a 21. That way the 21 shots won't be so devastatingly bad for pvp or pve, and if you still don't kill your target (21 clip size is still very low for a low-impact, fast shooting pulse rifle) you can still reload a little faster. Regardless, I think both guns NEED reload buffs.
Thorn is really good in PvP. Equip some gauntlets that boost reload speed with handcannons. You also shouldn't find yourself in situations where you need more than 6 bullets.
I'm not saying it's the best in slot, but I actually switch to Thorn when I'm doing bad with other weapons because I know I can always do well with it.
because of pvp cry babies they plan on nerfing SUROS again! in VOG with my half updated Hawkmoon I wipe shit faster than I do with my fully upgraded SUROS that I got way before it even was sold by Xur :'(
if it's so good rifle why the fuck is Xur selling it! ? //
You dont have Vlogs
Wy does bungie nerf weapons for the crybabies on the crucible >:( i loved my guardian killer souros , its not that the weapons are OP its that this crybabies cant take a single guy killing them
Master Chief I see the problem not even in SUROS, it's just a good auro rifle that happends to be exotic that everyone plays with and that's the reason you get killed by it. As VERY old owner of this gun, i do most kills with shotguns, while most of people destroy you with Fusion rifle and you don't even know what hit you. Not to mention HARD LIGHT, VANQUSHER etc are as op as SUROS in PVP. Vanqusher is amazing in pvp
it is the best auto rifle in the game and most defenitly in the top 3 exotics but as much as i hate saying it , it really dosnt need a nerf
Master Chief Exactly, My Grim Citizen III can outgun any Suros more than half the time(Even before the first nerf).
With the thorn.. An idea could be that it causes blinding and stunning to enemies making use of the burn of the acid or poison. And if the enemy is shielded it won't work until the shield is gone.. Non-organic enemies should allow the thorn to cause extra damage instead of a burn damage or while burn danger is in affect allow more damage.. Just from the thought of acid eating through metal.. Or it could create crit-hit areas of the burning area.. And for pvp.. Maybe just increase the burn damage.. Idk there.
I have used thorn a lot and I can say that it only needs to be buffed for PvE. In PvP I honestly rarely lose any gunfights using it. In my opinion most of the people who say its a bad weapon either haven't taken the time to get its special upgrade or just suck altogether when it comes to using handcannons.
I think if Thorn had a stacking DoT and the DoT was longer lasting, it'd be quite a bit stronger, and that would justify it not having as large of a clip. That said, I like your suggestions too.
If I could give Thorn anything it'll be a higher shots in the chamber (10-11), and maybe give it some type of elemental damage, maybe void. Bad Juju increase the burst rate and the clip size. Increase the impact and give it elemental damage too. Honestly I think all Exotic Primaries should do some type of elemental damage.
LOL THUMBS UP IF YOU'RE WATCHING AFTER TRAILS
***** So you spelled everything you have ever written right? Shut the fuck up and stop trying to act smart stupid ass bitch.
Who here thinks Super Good Advice needs a buff? The recoil makes it unusable in my opinion.
I know lol. I passed on that bounty when it was offered, because my friend said that you miss so much it just returns ammo and thats all its good for lol. I like my Zombie Apocalypse with its stability upgrade, it's recoil is very managable.
I agree
I 100% agree.
Agreed!
LOL loved the intro dude."i dont know,thanks for watching" ;) LOL IM LEAVING A LIKE
In my opinion they should buff the mag a bit for Bad JuJu like making it anywhere from 18-24 round mag would make it much better that way you know you can get a kill for certain instead of hoping you hit all crits
For Thorn:
Reduce Impact, and recoil. Increase reload speed and magazine, as well as a dramatic increase to the Damage over time bonus.
For Juju:
More Bullets, More Stability, More Impact. I like Zen Moment or Crowd Control as a replacement upgrade
You do relize the entire point of a hand cannon is to have high impact...without that it's just a scout rifle
I think thorn's Charakter Upgrade (the One with the damage over Time) should have an Addition like speeding up reloads or extra damage or Other over Time effects like Granade and meele cooldown Reduktion Wille an Enemy is under the Effekt of Thorn this would fit the weapons cruel and sinister Nature always hungry for power and Death. I think the Speed up reloads weile under the Thorn efect would be a good way to buff the weapon.
I think Thorn is best used as a PVP gun. It just needs either more rounds or a quicker reload time. I do alright with it but thats only because im use to using Scout riffles (back in the wet noodle days) so its not that hard to adapt. But reloading constantly is a pain in the ass. As for bad Juju. I agree that more impact would be good and maybe something to help with stability. Its definitely a solo player gun for sure.
@Ryan Simpson- but here's the thing: your friends are lucky. I got Last word from the 7th week nightfall and shat myself when i got it. Its power and looks make it one of the best exotics
Loved the intro.
Some interesting tips I've found out
#1 In the first 2 hours of the daily bounties (9am-11am) you can do them AGAIN after the Daily Strike day refreshes at 11am
#2 You can XP all gear you have set into the primaries when collecting Bounty Rewards
#3 Right now the best farming spot is on Venus where the sentinel is just a few jumps off the top of the outside side door and they all refresh. So Far I've had 12 Rares & 3 Legendaries in 3 runs...
EDIT #4 and probably the most important Each level of vanguard gives a GUARANTEED Legendary item
I was expecting the Super Good Advice to feature in this video. That thing is just horrendous. Weapons like The Culling, The Swarm and Zombie Apocalypse are so much better.
I think what the Bad Juju really needs is a massive stability boost and a slight impact boost. Red Death just embarrasses Bad Juju at this point.
Increase Bad Juju's stability and give it a slight impact boost.
String of Curses doesn't even work on harpies, so going against harpies with the Bad Juju is pointless. Also, the big patch meant to fix the guns may not be around for another week or 2. Because the last update from Bungie, AGAIN, was only for people who play PVP. (To be more specific, people who play in the Iron Banner.)
Wanna buff Bad Juju? MAKE IT A SCOUT RIFLE. It has the model of a scout rifle, and it would make using the weapon bearable.
Bad Juju is a lot better with the Gunslinger's Trance perk for Gunslinger Hunters. It's a lot of fun with that perk because you can clear whole rooms with it with a string of headshots.
In boss fights and PvP it's pretty useless though. Bad Juju is a fun gun for me to use but otherwise it's not worth much.
Oh god, Chain of Woe and Gunslinger's Trance are INCREDIBLE perks. Turns Pulse Rifles with crap accuracy and slow reload into essentially 3-round burst Scout Rifles.Thorn is also improved a LOT with those perks.
What does gunslinger trance do again?
Soham Bhavsar I believe that it increases your weapons stability with every percision kill, stacking 3 times.
That's I love my hunter :) But I only use gunslinger trance because I think increased golden gun range is better than chain of woe. Also if I didn't use gunslinger trance I would use scavenger.
it doesnt seem that useful
18 shots for Bad Juju and 7 shots for Thorn plus stacking Bad Juju's bonus damage after a kill ability as well as Thorn's damage over time ability to a certain degree would make them better in crucible and PvE. Then just give them both elemental damage (they look dark/evil as if they should be doing void damage) and they will be even better in PvE.
I think they should increase mag size and add a damage after kill thing on string of curses
Ninjashyper has a video of him going on an amazing streak in pvp with the bad juju
I have yet to use a Thorn, but I have been using my Bad Juju for a while now, and I have gotten really good with it if I may say so myself. It's my possibly my fav weapon for looks, and I love running around shooting stuff with it. I have to agree it's annoying when someone gets the last shot on an enemy, and you have to actually reload the gun. It's a great weapon in very specific situations (Solo missions with lots of enemies that can be killed with 15 shots). I think more magazine capacity would ruin the point of String of Curses. They may be able to get away with an 18 shot mag, but no more. I think it should have better impact. I think that it would then be a worth while weapon, because whenever I am playing with my buddy, and we are trying to beat the weekly/nightfall strike I switch to my SUROS Regime. More impact for Bad Juju! Plz Bungie! >.
Thanks for the video. I love the Thorn...I can't wait for them to buff it. Personally I think that the lingering damage counters should stack. Even in pvp. Honestly they could just add that and leave the rest alone.
i actually left the video the first time you said bye XD i was gonna exit laughing but then you came back lol
how is thorn "ok" in pvp, when its just rekting people everywhere? its a god tier weapon if you know how to use it properly. Its a 2shot kill weapon, if you are just performing "ok" in the crucible with it, then you arent smart/good enough in to use it to its full potential.
ok, they NERFED the Thorn in pvp the lingering damage was reduced from 7 to 3 dmg per tik. It isnt a 2shot anymore and it is now only a good handcannon ... it lost its god tier status
Now the God tier Status is back :D
Hahaha :D
Pestilent Defiler
jesus, the thorn is soo friggn OP now. i am reking people left and right with it in the crucible. I give bungie a month and the weapon gets nerfed again.
around 30kills and a K/D of 2.5 to 5 every match
well I meself would use the gun I would prefer over which is technically better, though I would use whats recommended for specific tasks.case in point, I use 77 wizard over light/beware due to personal preference, I favor the number 7 but I am getting double what ive asked for but it also has a red color to it which is me favorite but hey, that's just me!
as much as i love the green mist on Bad JuJuu, it kinda gets in the way some times to
thorn in pvp is VERY rewarding. personally only like it in skirmish where your whole team should be backing you up constantly. bad juju could AT LEAST use more reserve ammo.
I don't think SUROS is overpowered, it all depends on your playstyle,get close to a person with Suros and they're pretty much fcked in comparsion to other Primary weapons, Hand cannons for instance, where you can still possibly 2-shot them when they get on shotgun range
For everyone saying exotics are supposed to be overpowered they really aren't. Bungie said it themselves. They said that they want them to not be frustrating to go up against in PvP, but still have cool unique abilities, sounds, and looks. Patience And Time is a prime example: It's not ridiculous to fight in PvP, but it looks cool, sounds cool, and has awesome upgrades. I have to admit, though. Quite a few exotics have been over-nerfed. And exotics like Thorn and Bad Juju aren't good enough. Bungie! Do better!
Buff needs to come to No Land Beyond
I forgot how painfully slow Thorn's reload speed was.
SneakAttack65 same