Balance Shaft Delete + 1000 Mile Drive - Will The Engine Survive?
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- In this video, we put our money (and truck) where our mouth is.
We bought a V10 F250 Super Duty, removed the balance shaft, and drove it 1000 miles back home all with the intent to finally put an end to the myth "Will my V10 engine blow up without a balance shaft?".
We also did additional testing, including sending oil samples to a lab for analysis, visual tests, and measured vibrations using accelerometers and a Arduino.
Enjoy!
00:00 - Intro
00:35 - F250 King of The Hill Edition
01:21 - The plan
02:08 - How to properly remove the balance shaft
03:28 - The Drive
07:34 - Water Shake Test
09:30 - Oil Sample Results
13:06 - Blind Driver
15:29 - Accelerometer Data
19:49 - Conclusions. Did our engine blow up?
Music by MBB
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/ mbb_music - Розваги
I just binge watched the entire 4V V10 series. I am very impressed. Can't wait to see how this thing turns out for you guys. Dynamite work fellas.👌🏻
Just started doing it, still have some ways to go, loving the series
Love that the ford v10 is getting more recognition on UA-cam and more of a following!
The Ford V10 is getting some love now. Deboss Garage just started a V10 build, then VisioRacer did an informative vid about the 6.8L.
I'm not really a ford guy but I've wanted to see someone do this for awhile
The real ones knew this wasn't going to kill the engine. The keyboard warriors took the L on this haha. Keep going guys, there's a lot of people out there, like me, that look ford v10 content. You're living my dream right now.
Plenty of 'unbalanced' production engines over the decades that weren't equipped with balance shafts - that's just some NVH stuff, make it "feel nice" lol
You'll want to keep an eye on the oil filter. Higher than normal engine harmonics tend to vibrate oil filters loose. Ford learned this the hard way with the first gen voodoo engine and GM found the same issue in development of the engine on the new Z06.
At some point, you have to stop trusting the factory so much. Yes, vibration exists, but that also means your oil filter isn't vibration resistant.
Friend of mine hit something in the road on his F250 and ripped a hole in his pan ended up seizing the cam in the passenger head at 80k miles, instead of replacing the head he bought a used engine with supposedly 90k miles that we swapped into it. Over the next few years we went thru the engine replacing both heads, fresh bearings, rings, gaskets and Ford timing chain kit. At 245k the oil filter gasket blew out and you guessed it, passenger side cam seized. When pulling the cam covers is when we noticed a blank shaft on the drivers head vs the balance shaft on the original one, when we pulled the caps they were galled to death so apparently in that engines 90k miles the balance shaft starved for oil and the balance shaft was replaced with a solid steel bar turned down to fit. Even after his loss of oil pressure and pulling a horse trailer with 4 horses 3/4 of a mile to get to a safe place to get off the road, all the rods and main bearings still looked good with still an all aluminum shells no cooper showing so i guess with 155k miles without a balance shaft and its whole life pulling trailers it doesnt seem that balance shaft prevented any excess wear so imo it was basically there for NVH purposes only
155k miles! Cool to get some long term info, thank you for letting us know!
Just found this channel myself. Had a super- binge session over the whole series. Very entertaining lads. I couldn't work out how you could make your own heads in the first place. Second thing I thought of was the absence of the balance shaft would have the 4V V10 shaking itself to bits.👍🔧
Last summer, I swapped an 03 V10 into my 99 V10 F350. Had to keep the original drivers header with the EGR to not throw codes. The power increase was significant! I know there’s only 35hp difference in the years but I was impressed.
35 peak HP difference - it's all that area under the curve you're feeling!
@@RyTrapp0 Since I drive a V10 Excursion, the fact the truck weighs 2000 pounds less may have influenced my enthusiasm.
Why do people act like balance shafts are the most important part of an engine? It's ridiculous. Thank you for this video, it was sorely needed.
its pretty much not important for engines like this but for inline 4s its definitely helpful because of the secondary imbalance.
@jachyra1869 I've owned, worked on and driven almost nothing but 4 cylinder cars for more than 20 years, absolutely none of them had balance shafts. Really, most 4 cylinders of 2 liters or less aren't likely to have balance shafts. And, really, this truck vibrated far worse than any 4 cylinder car that I've ever driven without its balance shaft.
That balance shaft isn’t for engine balance, it is for NVH for the customer. As the video proves. Engine balance that can cause engine damage is done with the crankshaft/rotating assembly. This video series is pretty amazing.
After the intro I was most interested in watching you guys drive blindfolded. Yes, I was severely disappointed. Looking forward to the engine build. And seeing the mystery car on the trailer.
Fun stuff! The other data I'd like to know is of course horsepower gain and if the engine revs faster. Hopefully this vid does really well and can pay for a dyno, hahaha.
We didn’t really notice any gains in power or rev speed, but a dyno session to test that out would be sweet!
I was eagerly awaiting a new upload. My favorite build on YT
We will have a build update coming soon! Block is back and looking good 😎
When you put it in drive. The 'slipping' of the torque converter acts as a fluid damper.
As the responsible base engine development engineer for the 6.8 when it was being developed no it will not blow up. The reason for the shaft being there is because we designed it as an even fire engine with a split pin crank. Several of the early development engines ran successfully with non-functional balance shafts when the teeth on the drive gear failed due to torsional vibrations in the camshaft drive system.
Literally answering the questions I have always asked my self about the ford V10
I just finished binge watching the 4V V10; excellent work. I’m impressed by your problem solving approach. You guys are great engineers. Speaking of that, I’d like to learn more about you guys. Where did you go to school and what did you study? What is your day job? I think you’ll be able to quit that day job soon. I can’t believe you only have 12k subscribers. You’ll hit 1 million soon enough.
Balance shafts are rarely necessary. When you get into really harsh situations like wheel-hop under braking, that shock load goes back into the engine and is really hard on the timing system.
Even with a balance shaft, the engine is still having to deal with all of the loads that an imbalance is causing, the vibrations being caused by the imbalance are just being counteracted by the balance shaft. In this case, it's even worse than it is in most engines, because the imbalance in the rotating assembly is being counteracted in the head.
*** Balance shafts don't actually eliminate the imbalance in the engine, they just counteract the vibrations being caused by that imbalance. ***
@@PistonAvatarGuy Yeah. Vibration isn't necessarily the worst thing in the world, within limits. Allowing vibration is okay as long as it doesn't cause your sensors to malfunction. At the end of the day, you have to test it, and that's exactly what they did here, with good results.
I wouldn't worry about that mild vibration "destroying" the engine, but I would recommend you take a look at the crank sensor & cam sensor signals with an oscilloscope both with and without the balance shaft to see if it has any effect on those. The crank signal is important for the misfire monitor software in the PCM.
That could be something to look at. However, misfires are monitored via acceleration changes in the crank. I doubt the balance shaft would affect that. You can really feel a misfire. And we didn't have a check engine or misfire code the whole time.
@@biy_buildityourself When I was still a Ford Senior Master tech I did a lot of those Focus DPS6 clutch replacements. We had to do a "misfire monitor neutral profile relearn" procedure or it would set false misfire codes. That procedure was not available yet on the older truck engines like you have, but balance does affect the crank signal. On an engine that big you probably won't have a problem, especially if you use an aftermarket PCM. Good luck! :🙂
@@XenaFordPrincessby the time everyone and their dog had worked on them they were miserable to work on. The first 20-30 of them I was happy to be getting the drive cycle time and the 2010D tool kit came out I knew I was going to Make money. 4-5 years later… “here goes the rest of my day”
@@XenaFordPrincess Question: How does a balance shaft in the head affect the balance of the rotating assembly?
It affects the whole engine@@PistonAvatarGuy
Great Video and great testing 👍
Love the approach you guys have! Keep it going! 6/5
That’s my question I been asking for Like 5yrs . Glad someone tried it . I got too much in my motor to try it . 😅
You’re welcome 😂
Probably doesn’t matter but back in the day 95-97 the Celica and the Camry shared a 4-cylinder engine. The Camry had balance shafts from the factory and the Celica didn’t. The shafts were run directly off of a gear machined into the crankshaft. Idle smoothness was noticeably smoother in the Camry. The balance shaft was noisy in the Camrys and it caused a few complaints from the owners. I purchased a 97 Camry cheap because the owner didn’t know that Toyota’s really do require periodic oil changes . I built the engine and deleted the balance shafts. Basically just plugged the oil feed hole and threw the shafts in the garbage. The engine was quieter at idle and as far as I know it is still running 15 years later.
20:24 pure gold
You guys should buy a 2005 and newer V10 truck and test that and look at the things changed between the engines.
the heads & intake....?
Yeah the V10 was made until 2021
@@5.43v 3v was only made from 05-10 the v10 was not put on ford trucks after 2010 and it was made in the 2 valve variant after 2010 and also before 2005
You guys drove passed my house and didn't even honk
I wonder why the 99 through 03 V10 is recognized so much but not the 04 through 21 V10 in the econolines, chassis cabs and school buses
Great video
Thanks!
well i'll be damned. good work and great video! i'm gonna yank mine out, although mine idles @ 700 and is limited at 5500..
You got water in that back sparkplug hole😂😂😂
shit always flows downhill ,🤣🤣🤣love the show!!!
You guys should compare cfm of the throttle body. Stock vs twin 62mm vs accufab SCTB96-98 oval blade to see which is most beneficial to a stock v10 to increase power.
They would have to optimize the tune with the stock one first then swap each then tune to optimize those too, im sure the stft would compensate for a while with bigger TBs but a tune should be done unless a stock type air filter is used then the limits would be the filter/ducting imo
North Georgia ford decal on the tailgate, I drive by that place twice a day.
Your fuel mileage is consistent with what I've experienced with almost the same exact truck. If you keep your speed below 60 mph it'll beat 15 mpg highway. Same with the trailer, if you keep it under 60, you can get 11 highway (depending on how much aero drag your trailer setup adds). Go 80? You ain't getting 10 mpg empty, and more like 6-7 with a trailer. Still not bad IMO. About the same as the IDI diesels with way more power, and far exceeds the old BBF gasser. I remember my father had an F-350 dually with the 460 and the ZF 5-speed behind it. It was getting in the 4-5 mpg territory no matter how he drove it. That thing was such a pig.
Hey Shed, I live in Kansas City, Missouri, USA. I have a 1998 4runner 3RZ 5-speed. I’m raving through these videos because I’m really wanting a simple reliable low psi, stock ecu turbo build. Mine has 291k miles (466k km) what do you think about that?
A truck we will unfortunately never see built again. Cool video! A V10 Ford truck are is my bucket list…Too bad our country sucks ass. FJB!
United Colors of Benetton. Rodding don't give a fuck, just be fast. Ultra Gold.
Can you make turbo manifold for v10
My unbalanced 3-cyl geo metro did not idle smooth at all, but it did not effect longevity at all afaik, these cars would do 150k+ no problem.
I was hesitant to delete mine. I knew it would be fine but had a little bit of doubt. Now that is gone
Don't need it? Delete it!
Let us know your thoughts when you do!
@@biy_buildityourself I am thinking I can run two right side heads and have a cleaner install if I make some custom valve covers
Measure the area beneath the curves. That's your true answer
Ford should do a 4v v10 in a ford gt
No one here has stated the obvious question, what is the purpose of REMOVING the balance shaft? Does it rob significant power? Does it hurt fuel economy?
Why remove it?
Did it feel any faster in the butt dyno due to less rotating mass?
Haha not that we could notice.
Back-to-back 1/4-mile runs would be a fun 6th test to add! 🤔
Only one complaint!
We wanna know what vehicle you were towing? Is it the vehicle that's gonna receive the 4v V10?
Haha yes it is! We’ll be doing a reveal soon!
Yooouuuu dont need a balance shaft
thunderbird V10 swap?!
Ooh, good guess. But it's not a T-bird...
It's a crown vic
Cant shake any more than my 4.6 mustang 2v lmao
So...
Now you have another V-10 block.
There are 2x Mark VIII's...
🤔
Make sure to chamfer the weld areas on the next set of heads for better penetration 😉
Sn95!!!!!
A 72 degree V10 is better balanced
You can expect unusual valvetrain wear. I have seen it on some V6s. Cam lobes worn down. Cam bearings worn out at 75k.
Water in spark plug holes reason for misfire.
y tho
Well for us, we are building a V10 with custom Cobra 4V heads that have no balance shaft, so we wanted to see what happens.
And who doesn’t want to know what happens when you delete a part?
@@biy_buildityourself there is so little content on V10s, I’m glad you guys are doing it.
@@biy_buildityourself Wait how? Cut a cylinder off two extra heads and welded them on?
@@biy_buildityourself that's been an idea discussed on forum websites but nobody's executed it
Exactly. We made a 3 cyl and 2 cyl head and welded those together to get us 5 cyl head. Go check out our other vids do see how we did it! The heads are all done and we are starting final assembly, so executed and almost complete!
Pretty useless video, not touching on why one should ever want to remove the balance shaft? I see no downsides for having it unless its a known failure point.
Tell me you didn’t watch the entire video without telling me you didn’t watch the entire video 😂
Even if you remove the balance shaft without a rebalanced and blue printed rotational assembly your experiment is completely falsified even with the devices you've used it is done with a master machinist only verification
Man you keyboard warriors love trying to sound smart
Schizo post