I've learnt my lesson, I never run E10 (or any ethanol for that matter) in any of my bikes. Also, on the Keihin carbs there are two seals at every needle and seat, one is the needle tip and the other is around the seat which requires the seat to be removed to access them. It was the latter that caught me out and ive not had an issue in the decade since.
Great catch and good work on replacing the diluted oil. Because of the angle of the carbs in these bikes it's very important carb float needle, needle seats and seat o-rings are functioning properly in case the fuel pump lets gasoline through. I shut off the petcock while the bike is running and give it a few seconds then turn off the bike.
Good points mate. The real issue was the complete failure of the seals in the fuel tap. That was what started the whole problem. Those seals were all renewed less than 3 years ago. That is what E10 fuel can do to non ethanol resistant rubber seals.
Hi mate, hope your getting things sorted. I’ve just watched this vid again and I’ve a couple of thoughts on this problem. Having just stripped my carbs down and replaced various jets, set float heights etc, I can think of a few thing they may have caused your issue. There are two things which seem obvious to me: 1. The float heights; they can potentially let fuel into the carb if they’re not set correct. 2. Float valves: there is a small rubber point that can degrade letting fuel into the carbs. Or, the mating surfaces are dirty, letting in fuel. You should be able to leave the fuel tap open regardless if those two things are correct. I can’t think of any other thing that would let fuel into the bores. Maybe you know something I don’t? Cheers
Hi mate, the lock was caused by firstly, the seals in the Fuel tap letting fuel past( less than 3 years old), the second was that the fuel was getting past the seals in the Fuel pump and lastly, you are correct, the fuel got past the seals in the carbs. It was not helped by the fact that I always parked up with a full fuel tank. All the seals that failed had been replaced in the previous 3 years. The 10% Ethanol we run here really plays up with the seals. Unfortunately NBR seals are not available for these bikes (as far as I am aware) unlike all modern bikes. In countries that use 5% Ethanol have less issues. Now I only use ethanol free fuel. We have one such fuel in the Philippines.
The seals in the fuel tap failed completely and allowed fuel from a full tank to flow, under pressure into the fuel pump. The seals in the fuel pump also failed (again from E10 fuel) The fuel then traveled up into the carbs, again under pressure from the weight of fuel in the tank. The seals on the float valves and indeed all the seals in the carbs had hardened and allowed the fuel to pass into the bore. If the seals in the fuel tap had not failed there would only have been a small amount of petrol in the bores as opposed to the bores and crankcase, which is what happened. None of the seals, with the exception of the Fuel Pump was over 3 years old. It is a reminder of the impact of E10 on non NBR type rubber seals.
The problems are all sorted and it runs like a new bike. It was a real pain trying to find out what the problem was after the Hydrostatic lock was sorted. I will be posting a video that describes what the final issue was.
Had a similar issue with my zzr1100 the pilot jets had a slight blockage in them and also the float height was wrong after I relaxed the valves reset height and cleaned jets ran ok after .might no be this but maybe something you might want to check
@@karl9646 I wondered why you were so relaxed mate 🙂. Everything in the carbs has been replaced. The jets were gummed up which is primarily down to the E10 fuel. The seal failure in the fuel tap was the primary cause of the Hydro lock which then impacted the seals in the fuel pump. WE now have a slight stutter between 2-3k rpm which is proving difficult to rectify.
Sounds a bit over the top but every time I get back from a ride or have the engine running I always turn the fuel off with it still running and let the fuel completely drain from all the float bowls until the engine stops. Unless you are using the bike every single day in which case just turning off the fuel would be fine. Also a fuel stabiliser is a no brainer if you can only get E10 even E5. Fortunately here in England we can still get super unleaded from Esso which contains no ethanol so although a lot more expensive than standard fuel saves a lot of hassle with fuel systems that the ethanol bases fuels are determined to destroy. So if you can only get E10 over there if you can get a good fuel stabiliser and drain the carbs each time you get home that’s the way to go because switching the fuel off with fuel still in the system isn’t enough to stop the damage ethanol does. Looks like you might have blocked pilot jets also hence the poor running. Glad your back was wondering why you hadn’t posted. ZZR1100D1 & ZX10B1 Tomcat owner.
I have considered stabiliser mate but I have read very mixed opinions on their effectiveness. The video from FortNine is a good example. ua-cam.com/video/chsGBhB5g7o/v-deo.html
@@MichaelZZRrider I understand your concerns. Marine Fuel Stabilizer (Sta-bil Brand) also off gasses corrosion preventative to save your fuel tank. I have used it and because I also work on bikes, My shop partner thought I was Nucking Futz when i told him the same thing. Well after sitting for 2 months with 93 Octane E10 in the system, the bike ran like crap. Pulled the carbs and there were gel balls in the bowls. Total cleaning and new fuel bowl gaskets and the bike starts with a tap of the starter. He TOO is now a believer. Fortnine does NOT cover the 360 Fuel Stabilizer or the marine grade 360 which looks blue in the bottle. I have a GoldWing parked for 7 months and it fires right up. Working on the body bits and minor stuff, so I start it at least once a month and run it for 20 mins.
@@MichaelZZRrider With all the boats they got there it has to be available. Water(craft) and alcohol do mix and combine to wreck a marine engines fuel system. Most folks that own boats buy the non-ethanol brand of fuel, but with that over 8 bucks a gallon now, it really hurts. But if you own a boat I guess money is not the problem. The happiest 2 days of a boat owners life is the day they buy it and the day they sell it.
I brought my zx11 D1 brand new in Dec 1992 it is a 93. I still have it, i have never turned off the fuel. You should not have to do that. The problem.is our carbs have no over flow tubes, your problem is your needles failed to seal, when that happens the omly place for gas to go is into the motor.
@@ricardobooker1704 Hi mate, the problem with E10 and older carb bikes is well documented. Indeed, when I called a mechanic friend he immediately knew the problem. The seals in the fuel tap failed which started the issue so I replaced the fuel tap. I also replaced the fuel pump, drained the oil and replaced the filter. I also only use Ethanol free petrol just to be safe. Not had any issues since. To be honest, I had never heard of this situation before it happened to me but once it had I researched online and found quite alot regarding it. E10 is a bugger however there are companies that are selling Ethanol resistant replacement seals. If, as is being suggested, Governments move to E15 or even E20 then everyone with older bikes will nead to replace the original seals. In the West most countries are using E5 which is not so harmful to the rubber seals. Great to hear that you still have your ZZR from 92. I had to sell mine when I moved to Asia but managed to get hold of this one 10 years ago. Ride safe mate.
There are tutorials on here on how to take the ethanol out of the fuel. It looks really easy to do if you have the correct equipment, it doesn’t cost much.
@@gdfggggg The problem is that here the fuel is 10% Ethanol. In the UK I believe it is still 5%. That is a big difference. We have one fuel here that is non ethanol that is 97 Octane. I use that fuel although it is much more expensive. If I have to use ethanol fuel I make sure I dilute it with non ethanol fuel as soon as possible. The damage to the carb rubber seals is incredible. If you leave a tankful of 10% Etanol for a few weeks it starts to stink, changes colour and as depicted by FortNine the combustion properties decrease incredibly. I have had to replace so many Carb seals I could make a fortune by investing in them.
@ZZR 1100 & ZX14R Riding Legends the fuel here is either e10 or e5. I always put in e5 but I leave my bike over the winter with the fuel in the tank. Maybe I should empty it out.
@@gdfggggg That is a good idea but remember to make sure the fuel lines are also clear of any E10. The fuel tank need protecting if you empty it or it may rust.
It has been a real son of a bitch. After fixing the issue (after alot of time and money) the bike was hesitant after rolling of the throttle and then rolling back on. In addition the idle was erratic. Three more complete strips of the fuel system including the carbs with no issues found. It now appears that the ignition coils are not providing a regular and consistent spark. OEM are no longer made so I ordered new coils and leads from Dynatec which should arrive next week. Fingers crossed it should be ok after.
@@MichaelZZRrider .. no probs.. there’s 1 each side at the front, breather at the back and the one underneath on the right side is the one I meant.. no probs.. hope you get it sorted mate.. sounds crazy what happened.. I’ll be watching out for that… cheers…
Hello sir,im listening to the videos and details about it,it seems dat ur in the phillipines i hope i can meet u in person or if ders a facebook or mesenger i can reach u i got a lot of thing i wana learn and i believ i can learn a lot from you..hope to hear from you sir..
I've learnt my lesson, I never run E10 (or any ethanol for that matter) in any of my bikes. Also, on the Keihin carbs there are two seals at every needle and seat, one is the needle tip and the other is around the seat which requires the seat to be removed to access them. It was the latter that caught me out and ive not had an issue in the decade since.
Great catch and good work on replacing the diluted oil. Because of the angle of the carbs in these bikes it's very important carb float needle, needle seats and seat o-rings are functioning properly in case the fuel pump lets gasoline through. I shut off the petcock while the bike is running and give it a few seconds then turn off the bike.
Good points mate. The real issue was the complete failure of the seals in the fuel tap. That was what started the whole problem. Those seals were all renewed less than 3 years ago. That is what E10 fuel can do to non ethanol resistant rubber seals.
Awesome thanks had the same problem with my old gsx 1100 way back in 1980 bike stood for 3 months
One advantage that the early ZZ600 has over the the 1109 is the fuel tap is vacuum operated and will automatically shut when engine is switched off .
Hi mate, hope your getting things sorted. I’ve just watched this vid again and I’ve a couple of thoughts on this problem. Having just stripped my carbs down and replaced various jets, set float heights etc, I can think of a few thing they may have caused your issue.
There are two things which seem obvious to me:
1. The float heights; they can potentially let fuel into the carb if they’re not set correct.
2. Float valves: there is a small rubber point that can degrade letting fuel into the carbs. Or, the mating surfaces are dirty, letting in fuel.
You should be able to leave the fuel tap open regardless if those two things are correct.
I can’t think of any other thing that would let fuel into the bores.
Maybe you know something I don’t?
Cheers
Hi mate, the lock was caused by firstly, the seals in the Fuel tap letting fuel past( less than 3 years old), the second was that the fuel was getting past the seals in the Fuel pump and lastly, you are correct, the fuel got past the seals in the carbs. It was not helped by the fact that I always parked up with a full fuel tank. All the seals that failed had been replaced in the previous 3 years. The 10% Ethanol we run here really plays up with the seals. Unfortunately NBR seals are not available for these bikes (as far as I am aware) unlike all modern bikes. In countries that use 5% Ethanol have less issues. Now I only use ethanol free fuel. We have one such fuel in the Philippines.
Leaving the fuel tap on didn't cause your problem. Only bad floats or float valves will allow fuel to pass into cylinders.
The seals in the fuel tap failed completely and allowed fuel from a full tank to flow, under pressure into the fuel pump. The seals in the fuel pump also failed (again from E10 fuel) The fuel then traveled up into the carbs, again under pressure from the weight of fuel in the tank. The seals on the float valves and indeed all the seals in the carbs had hardened and allowed the fuel to pass into the bore. If the seals in the fuel tap had not failed there would only have been a small amount of petrol in the bores as opposed to the bores and crankcase, which is what happened. None of the seals, with the exception of the Fuel Pump was over 3 years old. It is a reminder of the impact of E10 on non NBR type rubber seals.
Yes, I thought the same thing
The problems are all sorted and it runs like a new bike. It was a real pain trying to find out what the problem was after the Hydrostatic lock was sorted. I will be posting a video that describes what the final issue was.
Had a similar issue with my zzr1100 the pilot jets had a slight blockage in them and also the float height was wrong after I relaxed the valves reset height and cleaned jets ran ok after .might no be this but maybe something you might want to check
Replaced float valves not relaxed lol
@@karl9646 I wondered why you were so relaxed mate 🙂. Everything in the carbs has been replaced. The jets were gummed up which is primarily down to the E10 fuel. The seal failure in the fuel tap was the primary cause of the Hydro lock which then impacted the seals in the fuel pump. WE now have a slight stutter between 2-3k rpm which is proving difficult to rectify.
Sounds a bit over the top but every time I get back from a ride or have the engine running I always turn the fuel off with it still running and let the fuel completely drain from all the float bowls until the engine stops. Unless you are using the bike every single day in which case just turning off the fuel would be fine. Also a fuel stabiliser is a no brainer if you can only get E10 even E5. Fortunately here in England we can still get super unleaded from Esso which contains no ethanol so although a lot more expensive than standard fuel saves a lot of hassle with fuel systems that the ethanol bases fuels are determined to destroy. So if you can only get E10 over there if you can get a good fuel stabiliser and drain the carbs each time you get home that’s the way to go because switching the fuel off with fuel still in the system isn’t enough to stop the damage ethanol does. Looks like you might have blocked pilot jets also hence the poor running. Glad your back was wondering why you hadn’t posted. ZZR1100D1 & ZX10B1 Tomcat owner.
I have considered stabiliser mate but I have read very mixed opinions on their effectiveness. The video from FortNine is a good example. ua-cam.com/video/chsGBhB5g7o/v-deo.html
@@MichaelZZRrider I understand your concerns. Marine Fuel Stabilizer (Sta-bil Brand) also off gasses corrosion preventative to save your fuel tank. I have used it and because I also work on bikes, My shop partner thought I was Nucking Futz when i told him the same thing. Well after sitting for 2 months with 93 Octane E10 in the system, the bike ran like crap. Pulled the carbs and there were gel balls in the bowls. Total cleaning and new fuel bowl gaskets and the bike starts with a tap of the starter. He TOO is now a believer. Fortnine does NOT cover the 360 Fuel Stabilizer or the marine grade 360 which looks blue in the bottle. I have a GoldWing parked for 7 months and it fires right up. Working on the body bits and minor stuff, so I start it at least once a month and run it for 20 mins.
@@anonimous2451 Thanks for that mate. I will see if we have any of that product here in the Philippines.
@@MichaelZZRrider With all the boats they got there it has to be available. Water(craft) and alcohol do mix and combine to wreck a marine engines fuel system. Most folks that own boats buy the non-ethanol brand of fuel, but with that over 8 bucks a gallon now, it really hurts. But if you own a boat I guess money is not the problem. The happiest 2 days of a boat owners life is the day they buy it and the day they sell it.
@@MichaelZZRrider Seafoam is good too..Fuel Stabiliser
I reckon a video of that hydrostatic lock blow out situation as you described would've been excellent to witness.
I brought my zx11 D1 brand new in Dec 1992 it is a 93. I still have it, i have never turned off the fuel. You should not have to do that. The problem.is our carbs have no over flow tubes, your problem is your needles failed to seal, when that happens the omly place for gas to go is into the motor.
Did you reset your floats, if so what did you set them to? If you didn't check them and let me know where they are at now. You have carb issues.
Oh I see this is an old video, how did you fix the problem?
@@ricardobooker1704 Hi mate, the problem with E10 and older carb bikes is well documented. Indeed, when I called a mechanic friend he immediately knew the problem. The seals in the fuel tap failed which started the issue so I replaced the fuel tap. I also replaced the fuel pump, drained the oil and replaced the filter. I also only use Ethanol free petrol just to be safe. Not had any issues since. To be honest, I had never heard of this situation before it happened to me but once it had I researched online and found quite alot regarding it. E10 is a bugger however there are companies that are selling Ethanol resistant replacement seals. If, as is being suggested, Governments move to E15 or even E20 then everyone with older bikes will nead to replace the original seals. In the West most countries are using E5 which is not so harmful to the rubber seals. Great to hear that you still have your ZZR from 92. I had to sell mine when I moved to Asia but managed to get hold of this one 10 years ago. Ride safe mate.
My 1100 smells like fuel all around it, does not seem to have any leaks. But is this normal?
Hi mate, is that with the vehicle parked up?
@@MichaelZZRrider Hi Michael, Yes, parked, with fuel off or on, cold and warm.
There are tutorials on here on how to take the ethanol out of the fuel. It looks really easy to do if you have the correct equipment, it doesn’t cost much.
As mentioned by FortNine most are not that effective mate.
@@MichaelZZRrider I'll have a look.
@@gdfggggg The problem is that here the fuel is 10% Ethanol. In the UK I believe it is still 5%. That is a big difference. We have one fuel here that is non ethanol that is 97 Octane. I use that fuel although it is much more expensive. If I have to use ethanol fuel I make sure I dilute it with non ethanol fuel as soon as possible. The damage to the carb rubber seals is incredible. If you leave a tankful of 10% Etanol for a few weeks it starts to stink, changes colour and as depicted by FortNine the combustion properties decrease incredibly. I have had to replace so many Carb seals I could make a fortune by investing in them.
@ZZR 1100 & ZX14R Riding Legends the fuel here is either e10 or e5. I always put in e5 but I leave my bike over the winter with the fuel in the tank. Maybe I should empty it out.
@@gdfggggg That is a good idea but remember to make sure the fuel lines are also clear of any E10. The fuel tank need protecting if you empty it or it may rust.
What a ball ache! Hope it’s not one of those problems that are a bar steward to sort out.
It has been a real son of a bitch. After fixing the issue (after alot of time and money) the bike was hesitant after rolling of the throttle and then rolling back on. In addition the idle was erratic. Three more complete strips of the fuel system including the carbs with no issues found. It now appears that the ignition coils are not providing a regular and consistent spark. OEM are no longer made so I ordered new coils and leads from Dynatec which should arrive next week. Fingers crossed it should be ok after.
@@MichaelZZRrider good luck 👍🏻
Hi .. sounds like your air pipe has come loose off the right side of air box..it’s a thick pipe not a thin one.. just guessing..
Thanks for the reply mate. No all the simple things were Have been checked. Threre are only 3 pipes off the air box. All were fine.
@@MichaelZZRrider .. no probs.. there’s 1 each side at the front, breather at the back and the one underneath on the right side is the one I meant.. no probs.. hope you get it sorted mate.. sounds crazy what happened.. I’ll be watching out for that… cheers…
Good video spoiled by the barking dog.
Always use Premium Fuel wherever you can get it.
E10 is poison for bikes.
Hello sir,im listening to the videos and details about it,it seems dat ur in the phillipines i hope i can meet u in person or if ders a facebook or mesenger i can reach u i got a lot of thing i wana learn and i believ i can learn a lot from you..hope to hear from you sir..
Hello mate, yes I am in the Philippines. Do you have a bike?
Yes mate i have d series well i was wonderin who to talk to about this bike tho im a filipino..🤗🤗
Wats ur mesenger so we can message directly sir.lookin forward to it..thanks
@@ronaldvelasco7610 I have an email mate, that is linked to my website. Send me an email at: zzrrider@protonmail.com