Very nice work there Dale! Before I forget again, the new boring and honing machine is working out really well. I have used it for the125, 185, 250 and 400 cylinders and it is simple and easy to use. The really nice thing about it is that it doesn't take up alot of space. Thanks again for all your advice. It's been a great help.
Good to hear Dave, I know they are a lot easier to setup, but the mill does a lot of other stuff that helps me with my projects here in the shop. If I could find a used one, I would probably pick it up. Does sound like you are getting some good use out of it. It will pay for itself in short order.
Awesome video again Dale! Cylinder cleaned up nicely, look forward to installing it as soon as i complete the bottom end rebuild. She's definitely coming back to life and many thanks to you!!
Hello again Dale , thats some cool footage of the machine doing the work on the cylinder bore. First time for me seeing any video footage of re bore work done. Interesting to get a insight into the process so thanks for sharing. All the best. Nick
Great to see the 465 being brought back to life. In my spectacularly unsuccessful motocross career, by far my favorite machine was my 1981 YZ465. Then they absolutely ruined it for 1982.😮
Dear friend and brother Dale. Thank you for all the excellent work you do, grateful for the inspiring person that you are with the bright mind and bright shining spirit that brightens up me and everyone that follows your outstanding channel. I am wishing you the best for the upcoming Christmas holidays to all of your family and subscribers as well with much Love and appreciation. God blessed you and keeps blessing you forever more..!! 🙏🙏🙏🇺🇸
Dale, I really enjoy your video. I was wondering if I might get your advice on my 1973 Yamaha DT 250. I’m not sure if it is a DT1,2 ? . Thanks for responding in advance. Respectfully, Doug Smith
Yes, I would have to find another way to bore if it didn't. There is just no way to manually feed it to make it look and function right. I did have a Grizzy mill years ago, that was the problem with it....no autofeed.
I was wondering the same thing. Nice have a power feed for that application. I have a mill with full power feed except the quill. Picked up a Kwik way boring bar. It would be great to have this function.
Yes, the Kwik ways are the best route, but in my case, I would need two of them, the smaller one, I think 1 5/8 to 2 1/2 and the 2 1/2 to 3 1/2. Most of those Kwik way and Van Normans if they have complete tool kits, are insanely high priced for something that is a one trick pony. But once an a while you get lucky and find one for a reasonable price. I looked at the new Van Norman Winona small engine boring bar set up and it was 8000.00 plus shipping. I just could not justify that for something that only did one process. So elected to purchase a new milling machine for just a bit more and it does so much more. But yes, on these long bores I have to struggle with some jocking around to getter done. But with that said most bores I do are within the 5-inch length of my quill (probably 75 to 80 percent), so they are one shot through and done.
Thanks for another great video! I noticed the skirt was different on the 2 pistons. The original had 2 intake ports and the new one hust had a short skirt. Im surprised wiesco would want to shorten the skirt so much. You would shed weight but seems like the piston might rock easier..? Thanks. Brent
Hey Brent, yes, it's just two ways to accomplish the same thing. Yamaha used the ported piston for years but changed to the cutout piston just like Wiseco did here. The skirt really is not shorter, it just looks that way the two edges on the sides are the same length as the ported piston skirt.
Hi Dale, funny thing, I'm not getting notifications for your posts for some reason. I was beginning to wonder if you were on vacation or something so I went and looked under my "Subscribed" List and there you were. Great work as usual.
Hey Jack, UA-cam is not the elite organization that we think it is. Lots of little quirks in its system. I'm enjoying your Trailboss series, sure hope you find the issue with the transmission.
Hey Jack, UA-cam is not the elite organization that we think it is. Lots of little quirks in the system. I'm enjoying your Trailboss series, hope you can find the issue without splitting the cases, I am wondering how the shifter operates. Do those have a series of balls that expand like the TC Suzuki's I wonder.
Yes, I have ridden a YZ465 back in the day. Awesome machine, still like the twin shock Suzuki's better, oh yeah, the TM400 Cyclone, you needed good medical insurance for that one.
Bore size with that back lighting makes the video greatt to watch and the process really clear. On those pistons, is the compression height the same as OEM? It seems like with the slightly greater displacement, you'd lose a little compression, too. Not really a big problem, but might be a greater effect than the extra weight from the Wiseco piston. If the piston top to pin distance was a little higher, the compression difference would level out. Can't imagine there's a whole lot of combustion chamber clearance to play with. Great video as always. Playing catch up on my subscribed list due to travel. Cheers.
Thanks Dave, I am not sure about the compression height, they look very close when I pin the old and new together, the height is the same. I am sure the piston manufacture takes all that into consideration. I have run a lot of Wiseco pistons and have had no issues other than the weight and the fact that forged pistons require more clearance for expansion than the same cast piston. Usually .0015 to .002 for cast, .0025 to .003 for forged.
Hey Kyle, there is a substantial difference, the Wiseco in this instance comes in at 451 grams, the stock cast piston is 388 grams, granted there is .050-inch difference in diameter so that will make some difference. But yes, I have done some videos where I measured and weighed pistons and even connecting rods, there is almost always quite a difference in weight on both. But normally for most folks riding styles, you will never notice a bad vibration or other problems from that difference in weight.
Hey Tim, I'm sorry I didn't explain that in this video, I have several boring videos, and I explain every step of the setup on most of them. The first dial I used, that I used under power was to just get it close, it called a coaxial indicator. The little black face indicator is a Test indicator and is used to fine tune and accurately define the center, it is good to .0005 inches.
Forging gives more consistent chrystaline structure throughout = strength and durability, and is more applicable to four strokes which are more stressed, 2 stroke pistons probably made in the same factories, except small scale production of aftermarket pistons say in Italy (GOL i.e.).
John I am sure CNC has a lot to do with it. Forged is supposed to be more durable, if only they didn't weigh more. I feel the weight increase kind of takes away from the durability. I think @104ducati is right these are just a way to fill the void for the 2 strokes, while 4 stroke forged pistons are for sure better in performance applications. Just look at dragsters and other automotive racing, almost everyone runs forged or some kind of other process type pistons. Cast just are not used.
Good video, thks. I rode a 460 in '80 and still remember the torque and power, also the size! Could manage to get astride then, my height c.5'8'', but now would need step ladders! BTW just worked out why there's extra wear around the exhaust port.🙄
Was wondering what you use to deburr the ports? Also when do you deburr the ports, after boring or after honing? I do a bunch of 400cc 2 cylinder 2 stoke racing outboards that tend to grab a cast iron ring on the port if you don't get that port area perfectly deburred. Emery paper is for sure not the answer, and a carbide burr tool is too aggressive. You really want a .010 radius, all around each port and I still have not come up with a real good way to get that
I use a Foredom grinder with a diamond burr to chamfer the ports, but not till the honing and piston fitting is done. Once I chamfer the horizontal parts of the ports, I then go back with a ball hone in 320 grit to plateau hone and chamfer the vertical edges of the ports, be sure to go maybe 5 turns to the left and 5 to the right with a proper fitting ball hone. I have many videos on the honing and chamfering process after each boring operation.
Absolutely if you do a bunch of cylinders and you can afford both a mill and a bar. In my case I would need two bars. One for my most popular of 1 3/4 inch to 2 1/2 inch, which are less than 5 inches in length and can be bored all the way through without issue on the mill, and a 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 for the larger bores. The milling machine is just too valuable for other tasks not to have. I just make do with what I have. Those boring bars garner insane prices for complete used ones, the new one made by Van Norman Winona, is over 8000.00, yes there are some new Chinese ones for a couple grand if you're into that. I have a lot of folks ask about how to bore one that is over 5 inches of quill movement, just like to provide some insight into how I do it. I'm sure there are other methods also. I also have bored them on the lathe, but this is really time consuming, and I feel like I would get too much chatter with a in this case 7-inch boring bar sticking out there. But you are right, much easier to setup and bore with a bar.
Yeah man I like those mid-size Suzuki's; I currently have a TC125 with the two-speed gear box. Not the same as the 185 in power, but still a nice trail bike.
I have done it Larry but using a 7-inch boring bar to get through it, I feel I would have a lot of chatter, also the time required to build an adapter or repurpose one I have adds a lot of time to the project. The largest bar I have is 1 1/4 inch in diameter, perhaps a larger one would be better. This looks awkward on the mill but its really not, this job took me about an hour and a half, even filming it. But this setup with a 3/4 one-inch-long bar on the 3-inch boring head is very ridged, I never have chatter or taper with this setup.
Very nice work there Dale! Before I forget again, the new boring and honing machine is working out really well. I have used it for the125, 185, 250 and 400 cylinders and it is simple and easy to use. The really nice thing about it is that it doesn't take up alot of space. Thanks again for all your advice. It's been a great help.
Good to hear Dave, I know they are a lot easier to setup, but the mill does a lot of other stuff that helps me with my projects here in the shop. If I could find a used one, I would probably pick it up. Does sound like you are getting some good use out of it. It will pay for itself in short order.
What kind of machine are you talking about ?
@gregp5315 TM807A Boring and Honing machine. AMCO machine tools.
@@davidleland8729 got it ,thanx , where can i get one ?
Awesome video again Dale! Cylinder cleaned up nicely, look forward to installing it as soon as i complete the bottom end rebuild. She's definitely coming back to life and many thanks to you!!
Thanks Jim, man that is a big piston in that puppy. That bike will pull like a tank.
Hello again Dale , thats some cool footage of the machine doing the work on the cylinder bore. First time for me seeing any video footage of re bore work done. Interesting to get a insight into the process so thanks for sharing. All the best. Nick
Thank you, Nick, I have several boring videos, also many on the honing and piston fitting and port chamfering procedures.
That wasn’t boring at all! Thanks, Dale.
No pun intended??
Thanks buddy, I enjoy the process myself, as do a lot of others.
Great to see the 465 being brought back to life. In my spectacularly unsuccessful motocross career, by far my favorite machine was my 1981 YZ465. Then they absolutely ruined it for 1982.😮
Yeah the 82 YZs should have been skipped -
That I have heard that about the 82 models, your career sounds a lot like mine, but it was fun non the less.
Cleaned up nice. Great camera work. Imagine how much stronger that will pull with the tight clearance.
Yes, this one was a bit loose; it will pull like a freight train now.
Great job!
Would like to see the bike running as a follow up at a later date?
Thank you, yes, I would like to hear it and ride it myself, but I will be shipping it home to California so the owner can rebuild his 1981 IT465.
Beautiful job Dale. Looking very nice indeed.
Look after yourself.
Cheers, Peter.
Thanks Peter, this cylinder bored very nicely.
great job as always dale cleaned up great should be sweet keep up the great work next video please
Dear friend and brother Dale. Thank you for all the excellent work you do, grateful for the inspiring person that you are with the bright mind and bright shining spirit that brightens up me and everyone that follows your outstanding channel. I am wishing you the best for the upcoming Christmas holidays to all of your family and subscribers as well with much Love and appreciation. God blessed you and keeps blessing you forever more..!!
🙏🙏🙏🇺🇸
Thank you, Ricardo, and Merry Christmas to you folks too.
@
Thank you dear friend - brother Dale ! GBY dear Dale..
True Love is not carnal true Love is from the platform of what the Lord in Christ Jesus gave to many…
🙏🙏🙏
Excellent job Dale, those are big two strokes.
Best wishes, Dean.
They are huge Dean; the length of the stroke makes it more time consuming to do by moving the quill to finish the bore.
Real nice work👍 Thanks for sharing.
Thank you, glad to have you along for the ride.
Dale, I really enjoy your video. I was wondering if I might get your advice on my 1973 Yamaha DT 250. I’m not sure if it is a DT1,2 ? . Thanks for responding in advance. Respectfully, Doug Smith
Sure thing Doug, drop me a line at: userdakota@gmail.com
Nice that you’ve got automatic down feed on the mill .
Yes, I would have to find another way to bore if it didn't. There is just no way to manually feed it to make it look and function right. I did have a Grizzy mill years ago, that was the problem with it....no autofeed.
I was wondering the same thing. Nice have a power feed for that application. I have a mill with full power feed except the quill. Picked up a Kwik way boring bar. It would be great to have this function.
Yes, the Kwik ways are the best route, but in my case, I would need two of them, the smaller one, I think 1 5/8 to 2 1/2 and the 2 1/2 to 3 1/2. Most of those Kwik way and Van Normans if they have complete tool kits, are insanely high priced for something that is a one trick pony. But once an a while you get lucky and find one for a reasonable price. I looked at the new Van Norman Winona small engine boring bar set up and it was 8000.00 plus shipping. I just could not justify that for something that only did one process. So elected to purchase a new milling machine for just a bit more and it does so much more. But yes, on these long bores I have to struggle with some jocking around to getter done. But with that said most bores I do are within the 5-inch length of my quill (probably 75 to 80 percent), so they are one shot through and done.
Great video, very informative, very well done!!
Thanks for the feedback, Matt.
Thanks for another great video! I noticed the skirt was different on the 2 pistons. The original had 2 intake ports and the new one hust had a short skirt. Im surprised wiesco would want to shorten the skirt so much. You would shed weight but seems like the piston might rock easier..? Thanks. Brent
Hey Brent, yes, it's just two ways to accomplish the same thing. Yamaha used the ported piston for years but changed to the cutout piston just like Wiseco did here. The skirt really is not shorter, it just looks that way the two edges on the sides are the same length as the ported piston skirt.
Good job brother.
Looks great 👍
Hi Dale, funny thing, I'm not getting notifications for your posts for some reason. I was beginning to wonder if you were on vacation or something so I went and looked under my "Subscribed" List and there you were. Great work as usual.
Hey Jack, UA-cam is not the elite organization that we think it is. Lots of little quirks in its system. I'm enjoying your Trailboss series, sure hope you find the issue with the transmission.
Hey Jack, UA-cam is not the elite organization that we think it is. Lots of little quirks in the system. I'm enjoying your Trailboss series, hope you can find the issue without splitting the cases, I am wondering how the shifter operates. Do those have a series of balls that expand like the TC Suzuki's I wonder.
Nice job!
ever ride this big 2 stroker?, i remember the 1970 Suzuki TM- 400 was a crazy will almost incontrollable motorcycle.
Yes, I have ridden a YZ465 back in the day. Awesome machine, still like the twin shock Suzuki's better, oh yeah, the TM400 Cyclone, you needed good medical insurance for that one.
No sir..... My father's SC 500....... Has a really big bore... Lol..... Two stroke folks rule.... Keep up the good work.. 🤙🙃
Right on Bobby right on.
Bore size with that back lighting makes the video greatt to watch and the process really clear. On those pistons, is the compression height the same as OEM?
It seems like with the slightly greater displacement, you'd lose a little compression, too. Not really a big problem, but might be a greater effect than the extra weight from the Wiseco piston. If the piston top to pin distance was a little higher, the compression difference would level out. Can't imagine there's a whole lot of combustion chamber clearance to play with.
Great video as always. Playing catch up on my subscribed list due to travel.
Cheers.
Thanks Dave, I am not sure about the compression height, they look very close when I pin the old and new together, the height is the same. I am sure the piston manufacture takes all that into consideration. I have run a lot of Wiseco pistons and have had no issues other than the weight and the fact that forged pistons require more clearance for expansion than the same cast piston. Usually .0015 to .002 for cast, .0025 to .003 for forged.
Very Nice job 👌👌👌✌️👏👏
Thank you
Are the wiseco's for the 465 really that much heavier? On a Yamaha blaster they are only 4 grams (2 beer caps) heavier than stock cast.
Hey Kyle, there is a substantial difference, the Wiseco in this instance comes in at 451 grams, the stock cast piston is 388 grams, granted there is .050-inch difference in diameter so that will make some difference. But yes, I have done some videos where I measured and weighed pistons and even connecting rods, there is almost always quite a difference in weight on both. But normally for most folks riding styles, you will never notice a bad vibration or other problems from that difference in weight.
Good video....Thanks!
Thanks Tom!
What does that first thing do that had the black gauge
Hey Tim, I'm sorry I didn't explain that in this video, I have several boring videos, and I explain every step of the setup on most of them. The first dial I used, that I used under power was to just get it close, it called a coaxial indicator. The little black face indicator is a Test indicator and is used to fine tune and accurately define the center, it is good to .0005 inches.
Not knowing anything about the industry,I wonder if the changing towards forged pistons is because of the capability of CNC machining?
Forging gives more consistent chrystaline structure throughout = strength and durability, and is more applicable to four strokes which are more stressed, 2 stroke pistons probably made in the same factories, except small scale production of aftermarket pistons say in Italy (GOL i.e.).
@104ducati thanks
John I am sure CNC has a lot to do with it. Forged is supposed to be more durable, if only they didn't weigh more. I feel the weight increase kind of takes away from the durability. I think @104ducati is right these are just a way to fill the void for the 2 strokes, while 4 stroke forged pistons are for sure better in performance applications. Just look at dragsters and other automotive racing, almost everyone runs forged or some kind of other process type pistons. Cast just are not used.
@@montana2strokeracer thanks
Good video, thks. I rode a 460 in '80 and still remember the torque and power, also the size! Could manage to get astride then, my height c.5'8'', but now would need step ladders! BTW just worked out why there's extra wear around the exhaust port.🙄
Yes, they are a hoss for sure. I always felt the main reason for the wear in the exhaust area was twofold, the heat and the direction change.
Hey if you ever need just a smidge more depth on the Z axis just remove the depth stop nut and you'll get it in one go.
Never thought of that, thanks for the tip!
Was wondering what you use to deburr the ports? Also when do you deburr the ports, after boring or after honing? I do a bunch of 400cc 2 cylinder 2 stoke racing outboards that tend to grab a cast iron ring on the port if you don't get that port area perfectly deburred. Emery paper is for sure not the answer, and a carbide burr tool is too aggressive. You really want a .010 radius, all around each port and I still have not come up with a real good way to get that
I use a Foredom grinder with a diamond burr to chamfer the ports, but not till the honing and piston fitting is done. Once I chamfer the horizontal parts of the ports, I then go back with a ball hone in 320 grit to plateau hone and chamfer the vertical edges of the ports, be sure to go maybe 5 turns to the left and 5 to the right with a proper fitting ball hone. I have many videos on the honing and chamfering process after each boring operation.
😂 a boring bar is the only way to go. This proves it😂.
Absolutely if you do a bunch of cylinders and you can afford both a mill and a bar. In my case I would need two bars. One for my most popular of 1 3/4 inch to 2 1/2 inch, which are less than 5 inches in length and can be bored all the way through without issue on the mill, and a 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 for the larger bores. The milling machine is just too valuable for other tasks not to have. I just make do with what I have. Those boring bars garner insane prices for complete used ones, the new one made by Van Norman Winona, is over 8000.00, yes there are some new Chinese ones for a couple grand if you're into that. I have a lot of folks ask about how to bore one that is over 5 inches of quill movement, just like to provide some insight into how I do it. I'm sure there are other methods also. I also have bored them on the lathe, but this is really time consuming, and I feel like I would get too much chatter with a in this case 7-inch boring bar sticking out there. But you are right, much easier to setup and bore with a bar.
On deck!
wish i could do this with my KDX400 and KE250 but they're Nikasil bores.
Yes, Nikasil has its place, but it sure is expensive to remove and replace.
Suzuki 185 some 50 years back. First bike with 2 speed gearbox so lots of overrev--ignorant kid. Glad to know what the shop had to do.
Yeah man I like those mid-size Suzuki's; I currently have a TC125 with the two-speed gear box. Not the same as the 185 in power, but still a nice trail bike.
I see a nice lathe in your shop, much easier to bore in the lathe in one cut
I have done it Larry but using a 7-inch boring bar to get through it, I feel I would have a lot of chatter, also the time required to build an adapter or repurpose one I have adds a lot of time to the project. The largest bar I have is 1 1/4 inch in diameter, perhaps a larger one would be better. This looks awkward on the mill but its really not, this job took me about an hour and a half, even filming it. But this setup with a 3/4 one-inch-long bar on the 3-inch boring head is very ridged, I never have chatter or taper with this setup.
here Dale!
Very nice job sir
Thanks Paul!
Here
cross hatch angle wrong
There is no cross hatch yet its just been bored. The cross hatch will be put in during honing.